Comment On 2B Or Not B2B

On a related note: I know of at least one banking-site that's closed after business hours.



Whyohwhyohwhy

Sounds like one of those "passed down by tradition" things that nobody ever questions. Reminds me of a story I heard:

A young girl was helping her mother prepare a roast for a holiday dinner. Before putting the roast in the oven, the mother cut off both ends of the roast and threw them out.

"Why do we cut off the ends of the roast, Mom?" the girl asked.

"I don't know, that's how my mother taught me." the mom replied.

Later the girl was able to ask her grandmother about the strange practice. "Well, when your mother was little, our roasting pan was too short for the full-sized roasts that were sold at the butcher, so we always had to cut the ends off to fit in the pan!"

 

joodie:

On a related note: I know of at least one banking-site that's closed after business hours.

Whyohwhyohwhy

I tried to buy a replacement remote for my Panasonic DVD player, but I couldn't because their website was "closed" for the night.

Alex Papadimoulis:

Better still, if you
didn't have an order for that week, they made the client log in (on
their assigned day, of course) and click a button that says "No order
this week". And the clients all did this!

The "No order this week" button might actually make sense as an option,
if you have clients who place orders almost every week - it would let
you tell the difference between "client specifically said they have no
order this week" and "client did nothing; they may have forgotten", and
selectively place follow-up calls accordingly.



Actually, phone orders have pretty much the same WTF as web orders, and
the same fix.  Why force the client to call on a certain day, when
you can just as easily take the order ahead of time and then let it sit
in a to-do pile until the client's day rolls around?  And offer
expedited production for an extra fee.

If you let any customer order on any day, how will you be able to tell the orders apart?  Customer X orders on Monday so on monday your code can just simply bill Customer X and ship the product to Customer X.  This makes the system alot simpler.

This also helps with scalability of your web site.  By only letting a customer order on a certain day, you dont have to worry about your web site getting swamped on any given day, and you might even be able to save money by going with a smaller server.

As for the customer having to log in to let you know they have no orders, I dont think you need to make them do that.  if you dont get any orders from them on their day to order, you could just have one of your customer service reps give them a call and ask them if they meant not to place any orders or if they forgot.

Nice try on the title, but it should have been "B2B or Not to Be"

Anonymous:

If you let any customer order on any day, how will you be able to tell the orders apart?  Customer X orders on Monday so on monday your code can just simply bill Customer X and ship the product to Customer X.  This makes the system alot simpler.

This also helps with scalability of your web site.  By only letting a customer order on a certain day, you dont have to worry about your web site getting swamped on any given day, and you might even be able to save money by going with a smaller server.

As for the customer having to log in to let you know they have no orders, I dont think you need to make them do that.  if you dont get any orders from them on their day to order, you could just have one of your customer service reps give them a call and ask them if they meant not to place any orders or if they forgot.

Uh?  This is a joke, right?

joodie:

On a related note: I know of at least one banking-site that's closed after business hours.

Whyohwhyohwhy

 

Working on a banking system at the moment, various systems go down at various bizare times of the day... quite wierd, they have specified that the service layer we are developing must have 24 hour availability... but various payment systems go of-line at 17:30 to the next working day.... Most of the mainframes shut down at 1am untill 4-5am.... Bearing in mind this is one of the worlds largest banks..

This would be fine, we could stash the message into a queue untill the releveant system comes back up on-line (giving the illusion of 24 hour service availability),, but they won't let us have a local store, all messages must be translated to the underlying native system and passed straight through...

hmmmm, I think the messages we will be returning will also be on the lines of 'please transfer your money when we've finished batch processing',

but hey, some of the underling  systems return back messages like 'Invalid Command please press Enter to continue" (there are quite a few green screen mainframe systems hiding behind layers and layers of systems, which have service wrappers like last weeks 'Vintage WTF' reading data from them.) 

In short, I'm never going to trust a bank with my money ever again.

Even better would be to install a bho on the customers browser the
first time they log on.  Then it would hide bookmarks to the site
on non allowed days, and prevent them from doing anything else on their
computer until they make an order or reject the order on their assigned
day.  Oh, also it needs to infect
install itself on all clients computers in case their order person is
out that day.  Just to make sure it is as user friendly as
possible.

Sigh.

Whats that business process reingineering catch-phrase again?

Don't automate, obliterate.

mugs:

I tried to buy a replacement remote for my Panasonic DVD player, but I couldn't because their website was "closed" for the night.

Blatant commercial plug for my day-job (but I got it pass the CAPTCHA, so it must be OK, right?  [:D]  )

http://www.partstore.com

We're open 24x7 and we sell Panasonic remotes....

 

 

 

This kind of reminds me of a task I was assigned.  I was supposed to automate a process that a client normally did on a spread sheet.  He gave us four simple steps we could repeat until the a certain condition was true.  It was basically an optimization.

I looked at the steps and said, "this isn't going to work."  My senior coworker assured me that the client wanted the steps to be implemented literally.  So I implemented the process literally.  When we showed it to the client he said "this doesn't work."

Anonymous:

If you let any customer order on any day, how will you be able to tell the orders apart?  Customer X orders on Monday so on monday your code can just simply bill Customer X and ship the product to Customer X.  This makes the system alot simpler.

This also helps with scalability of your web site.  By only letting a customer order on a certain day, you dont have to worry about your web site getting swamped on any given day, and you might even be able to save money by going with a smaller server.

As for the customer having to log in to let you know they have no orders, I dont think you need to make them do that.  if you dont get any orders from them on their day to order, you could just have one of your customer service reps give them a call and ask them if they meant not to place any orders or if they forgot.

Bwahaha! Good one.

"Uh oh, boss, we got a 6th customer. We'll have to work on Saturdays from now on."
...
"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

BradC:

Bwahaha! Good one.

"Uh oh, boss, we got a 6th customer. We'll have to work on Saturdays from now on."
...
"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

I wonder if they were supplying hospital equipment.



Caller: This is RIP Hospital. We need to immediately replace the airpump for our respirator.

Supplier: Sorry, it's not your day of the week to order.

Caller: But our patient is dying...

Supplier: Can't you tell your patient to stay alive until Tuesday? Oh
no, scratch that. Next Tuesday is Christmas. Tell your patient to stay
alive until Tuesday the week after next...

dubwai:

Uh?  This is a joke, right?

YES it is a joke.

What if the people meant to make the calls were off sick on holiday etc. and you missed the day by one day (as you couldn't phone up before or after)? Sounds like trouble [:S]

Good MS link there, cheers!

BradC:

"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

For scalability, form a tree among the customers. That way, you only have to process one order per day. You have 7 top level customers, and divide up your customer base and tell each group to call one of the top level customers. If they get overloaded with calls, have them divide up their sub-customers in the same way. Then the top level customers submit the aggregate orders to the website.

Maybe you could have web pages for each customer to tell them who they should call, and when.

BradC:

"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

Take two . . .

For scalability, form a tree among the customers. That way, you only have to process one order per day. You have 7 top level customers, and divide up your customer base and tell each group to call one of the top level customers. If they get overloaded with calls, have them divide up their sub-customers in the same way. Then the top level customers submit the aggregate orders to the website.

Maybe you could have web pages for each customer to tell them who they should call, and when.

Alex Papadimoulis:

Better still, if you didn't have an
order for that week, they made the client log in (on their assigned
day, of course) and click a button that says "No order this week". And
the clients all did this!

I am sure they could have inserted a
PayPal donate link and instructed their customers to make a donation
while at it, and they would've followed suit.

This is probably not such a big WTF as it looks like.

The logistics of production and delivery may demand to receive the
orders from certain customers at a certain day, or else have it
produced and delivered one week later. In such an ecosystem, customers do care
whether or not they receive it this week. By forcing production and
customers into a strict routine, both sides can be sure that the whole
supply chain is running like a clockwork.

Hopefully they'll have all that resolved by 2007, when Christmas next
falls on a Tuesday.  If not, the patient will need to stay alive
for at least one more additional week, as the following Tuesday would
be Jan 1, another holiday.



In addition, years of watching medical dramas has taught me that most
ER docs, along with being handsome, will be easily able to patch
together a working pump out of some duct tape, copper tubing, and a
hand-crank.

BradC:

A young girl was helping her mother prepare a
roast for a holiday dinner. Before putting the roast in the oven, the
mother cut off both ends of the roast and threw them out.

"Why do we cut off the ends of the roast, Mom?" the girl asked.

"I don't know, that's how my mother taught me." the mom replied.

Later the girl was able to ask her grandmother about the strange
practice. "Well, when your mother was little, our roasting pan was too
short for the full-sized roasts that were sold at the butcher, so we
always had to cut the ends off to fit in the pan!"

:D:D:D:D:D

I really loved that story... But the weird thing is that the
grandmother cuts off parts from both sides to make it fit. Why not just
cut it off one side? And what would they do with the parts they cut
off? Throw away or what???

BradC:

Bwahaha! Good one.

"Uh oh, boss, we got a 6th customer. We'll have to work on Saturdays from now on."
...
"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

Actually that depends on the job in question. I cut my chops in the
embedded work of high-speed manufacturing and it could very well take
their full workday to accomplish one customer's order. Thus there is an
upper limit to the number of customers you can service without greatly
expanding.



This could also be an industry that requires a great deal of setup or
teardown between runs. Thus they might have a second crew that does all
of the swap work and the production crew only does the run. Plus raw
materials might have to be acquired and on-hand for the run - these
could be expensive enough not to keep in large quanties, but still
require planning to keep just enough on-hand. JIT Manufacturing just
means pushing your inventory into someone else's backyard.



With expansion comes risk. Is it worth it to add capability because you
picked up just one extra customer - knowing that those expensive
machines will be sitting idle.



Now of course the inability to pre-schedule is very silly even when doing the work over the phone.



This is a strong WTF, but I have seen far worse in "always done it that way" processes.

Katja Bergman:

:D:D:D:D:D

I really loved that story... But the weird thing is that the
grandmother cuts off parts from both sides to make it fit. Why not just
cut it off one side? And what would they do with the parts they cut
off? Throw away or what???

That one is easy as someone that enjoys cooking (my speciality is
sauces). You cut off both ends because the center is more likely to be
the best parts of the roast.



You throw them away because we are in a disposable society. :)



Personally I learned from my mother and grandmother, but I would make
stew out of the ends - just braise them and throw it in. But then I can
be a bit of a packrat about certain things. My wife swears our basement
is becoming a home for old and unwanted computers.

BradC:

"Somebody called and wanted to become a customer, but I told them thanks, but 7 is our limit."

It's all part of our Sales Reduction Program which is coming along quite swimmingly.  I can't tell you how strongly I feel about each team members individual contribution to this effort.  As a special thank-you, we'll be hosting a Coffee and Pastry "getting to know you" session down at the Department of Unemployment.   You're all invited.

Supposedly this experiment was tried at a university.  If not, it's still a good story.



Put four monkeys in a cage.  In the center is a ladder, and above
that a bunch of bananas hung from the ceiling.  Every time one of
the monkeys starts to climb the ladder, spray the other three with a
fire hose.  Eventually they all learn, and won't let each other
climb the ladder.



Now replace one of the monkeys with a new one.  He'll immediately
climb the ladder, and the other three will pull him down and beat him
senseless.  Pretty soon, he learns not to climb the ladder.



Now replace *another* of the originals with a new monkey.  When he
heads for the ladder, your first replacement will be there right
alongside the two originals pulling the newest down and beating
him.  He won't know why, but that's what you do.



Keep up the pattern, and eventually you've got a cage full of monkeys
who'll beat each other for doing the thing they all want to do, and
none of them knowing why.

Paul Graham, in the web
page describing his design goals for Arc (a new Lisp dialect he
is designing), speaks avoiding 'onions in the varnish'. This prhase
comes froma story which he recounts:




Thus, Graham was saying that he was willing to throw away certain
traditional, but now outdated or unnecessary, parts of Lisp which he
felt were hold back current dialects such as Common Lisp and Scheme and
making it harder for them to gain acceptance among programmers. Among
the changes he's already revealed is the replacement of the keyword
'lambda' with the shorter and more conventional 'fn' (an abbreviation
of 'function'). It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference, and I am hoping the language catches on
(though I'm betting that his ego will get in the way somehow).

Schol-R-LEA:

Paul Graham, in the web
page describing his design goals for Arc (a new Lisp dialect he
is designing), speaks avoiding 'onions in the varnish'. This prhase
comes froma story which he recounts:

In The Periodic Table, Primo Levi tells a story that
happened when he was working in a varnish factory. He
was a chemist, and he was fascinated by the fact that
the varnish recipe included
a raw onion. What could it be for? No one knew; it was just
part of the recipe. So he investigated, and eventually
discovered that they had started throwing the onion in years
ago to test the temperature of the varnish: if it was
hot enough, the onion would fry.

Thus, Graham was saying that he was willing to throw away certain
traditional, but now outdated or unnecessary, parts of Lisp which he
felt were hold back current dialects such as Common Lisp and Scheme and
making it harder for them to gain acceptance among programmers. Among
the changes he's already revealed is the replacement of the keyword
'lambda' with the shorter and more conventional 'fn' (an abbreviation
of 'function'). It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference, and I am hoping the language catches on
(though I'm betting that his ego will get in the way somehow).

Perl's in the slow process of being reinvented the same way, with Perl
6, the biggest changes being that regular expression grammar is remade
whole for much clearer and more powerful code, as well as new threading
power. I hope it catches on, though I'm sure there's going to be 5.x
and 6.x branches forever; I'm somewhat despairing because it's been
moving along since 2001 without even making it to a full draft spec.

Alex Papadimoulis:

Ouch. That's a really bad pun.

A related pun goes:

2B OR NOT 2B = FF

Katja Bergman:

I really loved that story... But the weird thing is that the grandmother cuts off parts from both sides to make it fit. Why not just cut it off one side? And what would they do with the parts they cut off? Throw away or what???

Grandmother couldn't see all that well, and wasn't very mechanically oriented, to boot.  So she would eyeball the roast and the pan, and whack off a chunk of the roast.  Well, she miscalculated, and didn't take enough off.  But when she remeasured the roast against the pan, she put the cut end in first, so she had to cut off the other end, because that was the one that wouldn't fit into the pan.  Did I mention that grandmother wasn't very mechanical . . . ?

Some religions state that the Sunday is a resting day and
that working on a Sunday is your ticket to damnation.



Newspapers related to these religions actually take their site off-line so that
you can't read the newspaper on-line. (At least in Holland that's the case for some of 'm)



Apparently reading news-online counts as work while reading news from paper is considered
resting... or maybe that too is work and these people stare out of the window
like lobotomy patients for one day per week.



I don't know, but that couldn't be what their god intended?