Comment On Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

Automated (In)Security (from Carl Witthoft) [expand full text]
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Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:05 • by Frank (unregistered)
Not sure I see the face-palm issue with the motion-detectors. Apparently they want to restrict use of the building by unauthorized people. Is that what you're objecting to? If not, how else do you propose they do this?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:07 • by lizardfoot
Raise your hand if you read Aleksandr's email with a Russian accent.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:07 • by Dave (unregistered)
this comment of 'frist' I personally found outdated.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:09 • by Jeff (unregistered)
C - requires use source, requires follow compile rules
Yeah, well, so do we here at Employer Inc, so if that's a problem you may want to apply elsewhere.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:10 • by ES (unregistered)
401620 in reply to 401616
I think it's just because motion detectors are a stupid idea for a door, especially when management stresses how important security is.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:13 • by But it's secure!! (unregistered)
At our university, in rooms for the Computer Science students, they installed motion detectors like this. They had to disable them when students starting slipping paper over the top of the door to get access.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:16 • by justsomedudette (unregistered)
I love the fact that (lack of) age is the first thing a consultant should have, I mean who would even take someone over thirty seriously?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:17 • by Detect this (unregistered)
I worked a place with those magnetic door latches and they were STRONG. You could not force the door open. How do I know? The (central computer controlled) lock system had an outage one day. The doors failed closed, in other words many people were locked inside a room for hours and could not open the door or get out any other way. It is fortunate there was no fire or other emergency. Even so when the door finally opened there was a rush to the bathrooms.

The company refused to improve the design, assuring that outages would be "rare". I left.

I have no problem with automated locks as long as there is a manual override from the inside to get out. When automated systems have full control, however, you're just begging for the Terminators to come.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:19 • by Mickey McMickey (unregistered)
Java is to also my choice of the many reasons. And this article of WTF emails I personally found outdated.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:20 • by Jason (unregistered)
Chances are by the time you're 30 you've learned by experience at least one way how to / not to get screwed by an employer. Who would want to hire someone with that knowledge? It is so much harder to take advantage once they're armed with clue.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:20 • by barfoo
What's wrong with invalidemail.com? Invalids need email too, and it might even help their recovery to have communication with the world beyond the sanatorium.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:21 • by me (unregistered)
401627 in reply to 401621
But it's secure!!:
At our university, in rooms for the Computer Science students, they installed motion detectors like this. They had to disable them when students starting slipping paper over the top of the door to get access.

We had this in our old office. Once some of us tried, just for fun, to get in without using our keys. We managed to get through the main door and our office door MacGyver style with the help of a newspaper, some cardboard, and a stapler. Very secure!

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:25 • by FragFrog
401628 in reply to 401622
justsomedudette:
I love the fact that (lack of) age is the first thing a consultant should have, I mean who would even take someone over thirty seriously?

I'll up you one: many companies will also not hire people (for low end jobs) that have a bachelors / masters degree.

The rationale being that those people tend to quit relatively soon because they can get a better job elsewhere. People without education or experience on the other hand will stay put for at least a few years because, well, were are they going to go?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:25 • by Andre (unregistered)
I would defenetly choice to hire Aleksandr, except it is half true.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:26 • by Eddy (unregistered)
I know all about Unit Tasting, can I apply?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:29 • by Nellius (unregistered)
401631 in reply to 401630
Eddy:
I know all about Unit Tasting


That's what she said

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:35 • by Phlip
Thinking back on my Bachelor's, there were a few quite good parties, but I can't remember any of the pass-outs being quite "first class"... I guess I wouldn't be qualified for that job. Oh well.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:36 • by shinyemptyhead (unregistered)
401634 in reply to 401616
Because if anyone walks within three feet of the door, it will automatically unlock. And that's assuming that the motion sensor is calibrated correctly. It's not very secure at all.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:39 • by Mike (unregistered)
401636 in reply to 401627
me:
Once some of us tried, just for fun, to get in without using our keys. We managed to get through the main door and our office door MacGyver style with the help of a newspaper, some cardboard, and a stapler. Very secure!
Easy there cowboy. Sure the penalty for breaking and entering is probably just a few months probation, but if the company had any "intellectual property" in there they could have fucked you up for life. Circumventing a copyright protection system -- even a flimsy one -- is a serious offense.

Under the - fortunately killed but frequently arising in a fresh corpse - SOPA legislation you could get 5 years for copying a Michael Jackson song... one year more than the doctor who killed him.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:40 • by Warren (unregistered)
The SPAM email was a great double-bluff that the filters obviously fell for. It makes me tempted to put
***** RUBBISH COMMENT THAT SHOULDN'T BE FEATURED *****
just to see if you can't resist.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:43 • by Carl (unregistered)
401638 in reply to 401634
shinyemptyhead:
Because if anyone walks within three feet of the door, it will automatically unlock. And that's assuming that the motion sensor is calibrated correctly. It's not very secure at all.
Presumably the motion sensor only triggers on movement inside the door? Where, we presume, the good people are? Who are exhorted not to let someone in without checking their badge?

I guess you all want to use your badge and PIN to get out, is that it? And what about when the lock fails closed as described earlier?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:46 • by Nero (unregistered)
401639 in reply to 401637
Warren:
The SPAM email was a great double-bluff that the filters obviously fell for. It makes me tempted to put
***** RUBBISH COMMENT THAT SHOULDN'T BE FEATURED *****
just to see if you can't resist.
The mods here never fall for feature-me whores. As proof, note that my comment is also not featured.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:47 • by dpm (unregistered)
Spam these days is deliberately written as obviously stupid as possible, to limit the number of intelligent people replying. If you're a spammer, you don't want to waste your time corresponding with someone with even half a clue.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 08:55 • by shinyemptyhead (unregistered)
401643 in reply to 401638
Carl:
shinyemptyhead:
Because if anyone walks within three feet of the door, it will automatically unlock. And that's assuming that the motion sensor is calibrated correctly. It's not very secure at all.
Presumably the motion sensor only triggers on movement inside the door? Where, we presume, the good people are? Who are exhorted not to let someone in without checking their badge?

I guess you all want to use your badge and PIN to get out, is that it? And what about when the lock fails closed as described earlier?


Setting aside the very real possibility of leaving your badge inside and locking yourself out, note that it triggers on any movement, not on some deliberate buzzing motion. So basically if I walk past a door, it will unlock. At that point the entire system becomes dependant on my challenging the person coming in - which, human nature being what it is, nobody will do after the first week. As they actually state in the email, in the name of improving security they have fitted expensive motion sensors that reduce their security, and which are less efficient than the normal "hold down button to unlock door" that everyone else on the planet uses..

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:00 • by Steve The Cynic
401644 in reply to 401616
Frank:
Not sure I see the face-palm issue with the motion-detectors. Apparently they want to restrict use of the building by unauthorized people. Is that what you're objecting to? If not, how else do you propose they do this?

Perhaps by having doors that don't unlock when someone walks past the inside? A better way would be to have normal fire-exit crash-bars so that passers-by and loiterers on the inside can't unlock the doors merely by their presence.

Or like the door downstairs that gives access to the building. On the outside, there's a keypad that serves either to unlock the door or to call the reception area of one or other of the companies in the building. On the inside, there's a small button that can unlock the door.

For me, though, the other half of the WTF is the unlock timer. From swiping your card and entering your PIN, you have just three seconds to get the door open enough to not be grabbed by the locking electromagnets.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:04 • by Steve The Cynic
401645 in reply to 401638
Carl:
I guess you all want to use your badge and PIN to get out, is that it? And what about when the lock fails closed as described earlier?

If a door has a window, and its lock fails closed, you use a chair, hammer, or other large object (e.g. the GAU-8 you carry in your back pocket for moments like this) to open the window. Of course, the window doesn't close easily after you've opened it with a chair, but if there's a raging fire behind you, do you really care about that?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:14 • by TheLazyHase
401646 in reply to 401645
Steve The Cynic:
Carl:
I guess you all want to use your badge and PIN to get out, is that it? And what about when the lock fails closed as described earlier?

If a door has a window, and its lock fails closed, you use a chair, hammer, or other large object (e.g. the GAU-8 you carry in your back pocket for moments like this) to open the window. Of course, the window doesn't close easily after you've opened it with a chair, but if there's a raging fire behind you, do you really care about that?


Have you ever been in a panicked mob ? If yes, you would understand why that kind of door (the one who cannot be opened if there is an outage) are forbidden in Europa - and I belive in America too.

When you have a fire behind you - and, more importantly, hundred of other people fleeing the same thing - you'd better be able to open the door without hurdle, 'cause you may not be able to backtrack to a windows. In fact, even a door which need to have free space on the inside to open (because of the way the hinge are placed) can cause death in thoses situations.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:19 • by Mark (unregistered)
I would dearly love to see Burnt Tongue unanonymized. Hello age discrimination lawsuit.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:21 • by ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL (unregistered)
I once had a cubicle in the corner of a large cubicle farm area. The exit door was opposite the cubicle opening. It was already bad enough how cold it would get in the winter when the door was opened, then a couple of months later they added one of those motion sensors to the door. Every time I turned my head or whatever, CLICK. CLICK.

I got them to re-arrange my cubicle so that the opening was on the other side of the corner.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:21 • by rodent (unregistered)
401649 in reply to 401643
shinyemptyhead:
Setting aside the very real possibility of leaving your badge inside and locking yourself out, note that it triggers on any movement, not on some deliberate buzzing motion.

I hope they don't suffer from rodents , cause their doors will automatically open/close at night. Fun to get the neighbors spooked though. If the sensors are sensitive, even some flies or insects could be triggering it.
It would be hilarious to see how management fixes thatone.

email: to all
subject: security
To increase security, please kill any and all insects or moving things on sight. To aid in this mission critical endeavor, we have bought top notch, brand new, fly squatters.

email 2: to all
subject: security
There are to many insects left alive, for this we have decided to issue a bonus to those that kill the most insects. Please kill all insects on sight for security!!!

On the bright side, if they have a fire, and they have sprinklers. All doors will open when the sprinklers activate :)

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:24 • by Anon (unregistered)
Other than the horrible English, I don't quite see the problem with the last one. They want somebody with a 1st class degree. That's how degrees are ranked in the UK, 1st class, upper 2nd, lower 2nd, 3rd, or pass. (Mine's a first, thank you very much).

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:32 • by Russian (unregistered)
One WTF is lost on non-russian readers: gender of Aleksandr Batukhtina.

Aleksandr is male name, Batukhtina is surname in female form.

Also, I find this captcha outdated.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:33 • by Anon (unregistered)
When exiting the facility, you no longer need to push the door handles.


So...was this really a problem before?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:38 • by BayStater (unregistered)
401653 in reply to 401646
TheLazyHase:
Have you ever been in a panicked mob ? If yes, you would understand why that kind of door (the one who cannot be opened if there is an outage) are forbidden in Europa - and I belive in America too.


Yep, illegal in America thanks in part to the Cocoanut Grove fire in Boston back in 1942. Amazing what a disaster can do to cause change.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:42 • by no laughing matter
I used to be a professional C++ programmer.

But then i took a pointer to the knee!

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:46 • by Peter (unregistered)
401655 in reply to 401650
Anon:
Other than the horrible English, I don't quite see the problem with the last one. They want somebody with a 1st class degree.
The job for which they want the first class degree involves "Tasting" (hence the joke about a burnt tongue). Understand now?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:48 • by Ben Jammin (unregistered)
401656 in reply to 401650
Anon:
Other than the horrible English, I don't quite see the problem with the last one. They want somebody with a 1st class degree. That's how degrees are ranked in the UK, 1st class, upper 2nd, lower 2nd, 3rd, or pass. (Mine's a first, thank you very much).

With a first class degree, one would hope you were above trolling.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:51 • by Ben Jammin (unregistered)
401657 in reply to 401652
Anon:
When exiting the facility, you no longer need to push the door handles.


So...was this really a problem before?

The thin glass security doors kept breaking when people pushed them too hard. ;P

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:59 • by Ironside (unregistered)
401658 in reply to 401621
But it's secure!!:
At our university, in rooms for the Computer Science students, they installed motion detectors like this. They had to disable them when students starting slipping paper over the top of the door to get access.


Yeah this. At my university they took accommodation security very seriously. They installed big metal vault-like doors that were so heavy it was hard to push open. After 6pm they would automatically lock and a pass was needed to unlock the doors for a few seconds to get in. Trying to exit the building however, there was the motion sensor system inside that would automatically unlock them. I guessed this for the case of evacuation/emergency, can't have students burning to death or being ripped open by a madman because the doors wouldn't unlock (aww). Although it does have a bad side effect that you can exit the building at night easily and only find you have forgotten your pass when you can't get back in.

Anyway despite this heavy security, the door was so big and metal that when they installed it, it didn't fit flush with the ceiling, there was a ~5mm gap. They didn't bother filling that in.

From being stuck outside without a pass one night I discovered this gap and found out that by tearing out the middle section of an A4 sheet of paper I could produce a C shaped tool that could pass through the gap and hook round onto the front of the sensor. Click.

The flyers littering the walls served as a renewable source of "keys" for whenever I forgot my pass, which was a lot given I didn't really need it anymore.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 09:59 • by Anon (unregistered)
I've seen some spam filters that work by tagging messages detected as spam by adding "*****SPAM*****" to the subject line. They expect you to configure your mail client to take whatever action you want on messages that have been tagged.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:01 • by joeb (unregistered)
401660 in reply to 401623
I hope that when the fire alarm goes off the magnetic trun off.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:03 • by Ironside (unregistered)
401661 in reply to 401646
TheLazyHase:
Steve The Cynic:
Carl:
I guess you all want to use your badge and PIN to get out, is that it? And what about when the lock fails closed as described earlier?

If a door has a window, and its lock fails closed, you use a chair, hammer, or other large object (e.g. the GAU-8 you carry in your back pocket for moments like this) to open the window. Of course, the window doesn't close easily after you've opened it with a chair, but if there's a raging fire behind you, do you really care about that?


Have you ever been in a panicked mob ? If yes, you would understand why that kind of door (the one who cannot be opened if there is an outage) are forbidden in Europa - and I belive in America too.

When you have a fire behind you - and, more importantly, hundred of other people fleeing the same thing - you'd better be able to open the door without hurdle, 'cause you may not be able to backtrack to a windows. In fact, even a door which need to have free space on the inside to open (because of the way the hinge are placed) can cause death in thoses situations.


I believe humans are forbidden from building anything on Europa, not just doors.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:09 • by NMe
401662 in reply to 401659
Anon:
I've seen some spam filters that work by tagging messages detected as spam by adding "*****SPAM*****" to the subject line. They expect you to configure your mail client to take whatever action you want on messages that have been tagged.

This is indeed just a spam filter that adds that designation to the subject line. Spam filters work by giving points to an email and if the points go above a certain threshold, they mark it as possible spam in this way but still deliver it. If the points go above an even higher threshold, the mail gets deleted.

So in short: not a WTF, just a loosely configured spam filter.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:15 • by GoatRider
401663 in reply to 401623
Detect this:
I worked a place with those magnetic door latches and they were STRONG. You could not force the door open. How do I know? The (central computer controlled) lock system had an outage one day. The doors failed closed, in other words many people were locked inside a room for hours and could not open the door or get out any other way. It is fortunate there was no fire or other emergency. Even so when the door finally opened there was a rush to the bathrooms.

The company refused to improve the design, assuring that outages would be "rare". I left.

I have no problem with automated locks as long as there is a manual override from the inside to get out. When automated systems have full control, however, you're just begging for the Terminators to come.

Tell the fire marshal this story. That will get it fixed real fast.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:23 • by togakangaroo (unregistered)
401664 in reply to 401637
Ok, I'll say it

I don't get the Motion Detector one?

My experience is that's a fairly common setup. Am I missing something?

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:29 • by DCRoss
401665 in reply to 401651
Russian:
One WTF is lost on non-russian readers: gender of Aleksandr Batukhtina.

Aleksandr is male name, Batukhtina is surname in female form.


That was just a problem with anonymization. His real name is Manuel Garcia O'Kelly-Davis.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:46 • by Dave (unregistered)
401666 in reply to 401651
Russian:
Aleksandr is male name, Batukhtina is surname in female form.


Good spot.

This reminds me of back when I used to know Alanis Morissette, before the gender reassignment.

Alan Morris, good bloke.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 10:53 • by belzebub (unregistered)
I too have strong fillings in strong russian teeth neccessary to crush imperialist swines!

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 11:08 • by operagost
401668 in reply to 401623
Detect this:
I worked a place with those magnetic door latches and they were STRONG. You could not force the door open. How do I know? The (central computer controlled) lock system had an outage one day. The doors failed closed, in other words many people were locked inside a room for hours and could not open the door or get out any other way. It is fortunate there was no fire or other emergency. Even so when the door finally opened there was a rush to the bathrooms.

The company refused to improve the design, assuring that outages would be "rare". I left.

I would have called the fire chief, myself.

Re: Best of Email: Automated Insecurity, Outdated Vacancy, and a Burnt Tongue

2013-02-20 11:15 • by David (unregistered)
Didn't see anyone mention that requiring under a certain age, I believe, is illegal in the US for the purposes of employment. Could be wrong, but I think I'm not.
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