Comment On Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

I've been tied up on a "special project" these past couple of evenings, so I thought it'd be fun to share this great classic. And, of course, by "project", I mean Battlestar Galactica: The Complete Series and by "special" I mean "on Blu-ray." One of these days, I'll have to learn the discipline of Raymond Chen and have a few things queued up for urgent situations like these. [expand full text]
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Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:05 • by Drew (unregistered)
The Classic executive to... Oh look, a distraction!

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:15 • by zre (unregistered)
this was and still is a great story

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:22 • by tin
Fourthst.

Also, I didn't see this as a WTF the first time, and still don't. Programmer creates gimmick to trick execs into keeping the project. Hardly a WTF, and probably quite smart.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:24 • by !? (unregistered)
284317 in reply to 284314
Drew:
The Classic executive to... Oh look, a distraction!


Well put.

I guess the WTF is that the executives had Attention Deficit Disorder, i.e. The "Ooh Shiny" Syndrome

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:28 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
284318 in reply to 284316
tin:
Fourthst.

Also, I didn't see this as a WTF the first time, and still don't. Programmer creates gimmick to trick execs into keeping the project. Hardly a WTF, and probably quite smart.


Agreed.
This just seems genius to me...

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:33 • by RBoy (unregistered)
I would actually like to play a build of a flying game where the wings fall off when you shoot, and the airplane bounces into space.

Sounds fun.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:36 • by Matt (unregistered)
First. Sorry I'm late. My wings fell off :(

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:37 • by JoJo (unregistered)
284321 in reply to 284320
Matt:
First. Sorry I'm late. My wings fell off :(


I guess you're also posting from Jupiter?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:37 • by kaiser_wilhelm (unregistered)
Well, uhh, a little known thing about Nazi technology developed in World War I...


Yeah, right. Apparently, another Nazi technology was time travel...

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:38 • by Erasmus Darwin
284325 in reply to 284316
tin:
Also, I didn't see this as a WTF the first time, and still don't.


The game was in development for four years, and it still had bugs as severe as shooting causing the wings to fall off, and you don't see a WTF?

Just because the story focuses on a clever triumph over the WTFs rather than the WTFs themselves doesn't mean there aren't WTFs.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:40 • by !? (unregistered)
284326 in reply to 284325
Erasmus Darwin:
tin:
Also, I didn't see this as a WTF the first time, and still don't.


The game was in development for four years, and it still had bugs as severe as shooting causing the wings to fall off, and you don't see a WTF?

Just because the story focuses on a clever triumph over the WTFs rather than the WTFs themselves doesn't mean there aren't WTFs.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:42 • by Central Harlem Anonymous (unregistered)
I'm going to defend the executives on this. They had trouble backing a product that looked like every other air battle simulator, and which was late enough that it would probably be trailing-edge technology when it finally launched. Once demonstrated that the product had unique selling propositions that gave it a decent chance of commercial success, they were willing to invest more in it.

The only WTF in this story pertains to a character who isn't mentioned at all -- the project manager. How did the game fall so far behind in the first place, and why was this new programmer allowed so much free reign?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:44 • by Central Harlem Anonymous (unregistered)
284328 in reply to 284327
sigh. "rein," not "reign"

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:51 • by meu (unregistered)
OMG PONIES!!!

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:53 • by monkey (unregistered)
"A rogue enemy plane would suddenly... start shooting down his own teammates... until his wings fell off... Then he'd kamikaze his plane into the ground, which would launch the plane into outer space"

Sounds like one helluva crash simulator!

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 09:57 • by Kiss me I'm Polish
Geez, I'd like to see a simulator that does this. The usual ones are so boring, they concentrate on "realism" and other irrelevant stuff.
Now bouncing into space, that's WANT

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:00 • by OutlawProgrammer (unregistered)
I think that this should be taken as an important lesson in the human side of software development.

One Wall St. project that I worked on used a fancy-pants Oracle database for nothing more than logging a few transactions. These transactions were loaded at application startup, but that was it. No querying, no reports, nothing that actually needed a database. The developers, including myself, felt like this was using an expensive, overly-complicated bazooka to kill a housefly.

As it turns out, saying your software is "powered by Oracle" is the only way to market things down on Wall St. We didn't need Oracle to run the product, we just needed it to sell the product. Now, anytime management comes up with some crazy harebrained idea that makes no technical sense, I always think twice about the marketing implications.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:06 • by SR (unregistered)
284334 in reply to 284333
OutlawProgrammer:
...

As it turns out, saying your software is "powered by Oracle" is the only way to market things down on Wall St. We didn't need Oracle to run the product, we just needed it to sell the product. Now, anytime management comes up with some crazy harebrained idea that makes no technical sense, I always think twice about the marketing implications.


Yup. I'll generally be happy to provide a technically less-than-perfect solution if there's a good sales/marketing reason for it.

I'd much rather be employed and making software that actually gets used than producing something technically perfect with a user base of one (i.e. me).

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:07 • by Bob The Builder (unregistered)
284335 in reply to 284327
Central Harlem Anonymous:
The only WTF in this story pertains to a character who isn't mentioned at all -- the project manager. How did the game fall so far behind in the first place, and why was this new programmer allowed so much free reign?


Programmer new to the project does not mean the programmer is new to development or the company, he could easily have been a senior developer in his own right - given he was going to project meetings with execs, it was quite possible he was. Such people do not need babysitting.

Given they apparently not only knew how to write good code but also knew how to manipulate executives, I'd say they probably had a fair amount of experience at that type of development. They have been there, done it and figured out how to work the system.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:19 • by Chris (unregistered)
284337 in reply to 284323
kaiser_wilhelm:
Well, uhh, a little known thing about Nazi technology developed in World War I...


Yeah, right. Apparently, another Nazi technology was time travel...


Well duh! Have you not played the new Wolfenstein?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:21 • by Not Tim (unregistered)
Wow. Tim was a geek with the soul of a rat-bastard PHB.

It's a rare combination, and often wildly successful. (See St. Steven of Cupertino and Borgmaster Bill.) Especially if coupled with minimal scruples and good salesmanship. But I repeat myself.

Is the strange enchanter some call... "Tim"... still in the industry?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:21 • by Anyone else play this? (unregistered)
I had this came, it was pretty damn fun, but I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to advance in rank. I was stuck at 2nd Lieutenant for the entirety of the game.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:26 • by Stormin (unregistered)
The classic example of the "suits" being mesmerized by "bright shiny objects". In this case it was the right call. Kudos to "Tim".

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:29 • by blah (unregistered)
284342 in reply to 284339
Isn't it obvious? Fail several missions in a row, causing your demotions to hit rock bottom and bounce way up into space, i.e. Supreme Commander or Chairman of the Joint Peeps.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:38 • by Strausy (unregistered)
This completely explains all the problems I had with MicroProse games not working. F-15 especially.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:39 • by Doug (unregistered)
284345 in reply to 284327
Central Harlem Anonymous:
... and why was this new programmer allowed so much free reign?


meu:
OMG PONIES!!!


I think that explains the free rein.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:44 • by luis.espinal
284346 in reply to 284325
Tin is referring to the specific topic that is the focus of this story, not on the trailing WTFs that the team's lives miserable. AFAIK there is nothing in the story, nor on tin's response that said the previous mess wasn't a WTF.

Reading comprehension dude.

All in all it's a nice story. Obviously the damage was done in that money (and talent that quit( was bleed profusely for the first 4 years. But that a gimmick, as unbelievable as it might look, actually saved the project. It might not had recouped the previous losses, but it certainly allowed the team, and the company to finally ship a product that was certainly destined to doom until the cool button arrived.

The incredible WTF is that Tim's gimmick saved the day at all! Either by his design or just plain dumb luck, it's an incredible and entertaining happy ending.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:46 • by Romeo (unregistered)
284347 in reply to 284344
Strausy:
This completely explains all the problems I had with MicroProse games not working. F-15 especially.


F-15 such a nice game! I still have the game and it still working.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:46 • by Satanicpuppy
284348 in reply to 284327
Central Harlem Anonymous:
I'm going to defend the executives on this. They had trouble backing a product that looked like every other air battle simulator, and which was late enough that it would probably be trailing-edge technology when it finally launched. Once demonstrated that the product had unique selling propositions that gave it a decent chance of commercial success, they were willing to invest more in it.

The only WTF in this story pertains to a character who isn't mentioned at all -- the project manager. How did the game fall so far behind in the first place, and why was this new programmer allowed so much free reign?


Agreed. Given that Microprose had produced, by this point, a large number of war plane simulations, their inability to get the basic physics right on this one is a bit mind boggling.

This should have been old hat, and not an expensive boodoggle. Falcon 4.0 (as mentioned) was released a mere month after EAW, and the basic flight engine should have been the same for both.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:46 • by blah (unregistered)
284349 in reply to 284346
luis.espinal:
it's an incredible and entertaining happy ending.
That explains everything!

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 10:48 • by Kjella (unregistered)
284350 in reply to 284323
Yeah, right. Apparently, another Nazi technology was time travel...


Of course, they got it from the temporal cold war nazi aliens in Enterprise. Don't they teach anything at school?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:01 • by lolwtf
"which would launch the plane into outer space that the MicroProse executives probably didn't find nearly as funny as I do."
What's so funny about outer space?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:20 • by Martin (unregistered)
http://rampantgames.com/blog/2007/01/why-presentation-is-important.html

Pretty mucha rewrite but of some reason I like this version better than this one

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:22 • by MP (unregistered)
Interesting read.

I went looking for the credits:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/european-air-war/credits

[try #1]

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:26 • by Lame (unregistered)
284354 in reply to 284352
Hmm, yeah, I agree with Martin, that other version was much better written.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:33 • by blah (unregistered)
284355 in reply to 284354
Come now. TDWTF staff (especially Allen) have mad writing skills writing skillz.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:39 • by Monday (unregistered)
Genius, although it does make sense. He created one feature that answered the only pertinent question: Why does this game matter?

Or as my boss put it, "Make your victories loud"

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 11:52 • by Felch (unregistered)

Is the strange enchanter some call... "Tim"... still in the industry?

He's alive and well and going bald trying to work his magic at Microsoft ;)

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:05 • by Zach Bora (unregistered)
284358 in reply to 284353
MP:
Interesting read.

I went looking for the credits:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/european-air-war/credits

[try #1]


I found Brand G., it's Brandon Gamblin.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:10 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
Ahh, I remember it well. Not your traditional WTF but something of a classic, I agree.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:13 • by Lars Vargas
lolwtf:
"which would launch the plane into outer space that the MicroProse executives probably didn't find nearly as funny as I do."
What's so funny about outer space?
It's not so much that it's funny or not because ... in space, nobody can hear you laugh.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:22 • by miketill
284361 in reply to 284333
OutlawProgrammer:

As it turns out, saying your software is "powered by Oracle" is the only way to market things down on Wall St. We didn't need Oracle to run the product, we just needed it to sell the product. Now, anytime management comes up with some crazy harebrained idea that makes no technical sense, I always think twice about the marketing implications.


I can't count how many times I have the conversation with people on my team. "Yes, this is a stupid choice, but the investors like it so we will do it."

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:24 • by ThingGuy McGuyThing (unregistered)
284362 in reply to 284352
Martin:
http://rampantgames.com/blog/2007/01/why-presentation-is-important.html

Pretty mucha rewrite but of some reason I like this version better than this one


I like this one too, but this one was a better story because this one didn't include some of the details that this one did.

Re: Project

2009-09-03 12:39 • by Pstonie (unregistered)
Stand by FTL.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:41 • by Soft Drink Empire (unregistered)
284364 in reply to 284362
ThingGuy McGuyThing:
Martin:
http://rampantgames.com/blog/2007/01/why-presentation-is-important.html

Pretty mucha rewrite but of some reason I like this version better than this one


I like this one too, but this one was a better story because this one didn't include some of the details that this one did.


Ehhh... I don't think this one really needed all those extra details... this one got the point across just fine without them.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:44 • by Murdog (unregistered)
284365 in reply to 284357
Felch:

Is the strange enchanter some call... "Tim"... still in the industry?

He's alive and well and going bald trying to work his magic at Microsoft ;)


Is it vista with a windows 7 button?

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 12:49 • by Leak
284366 in reply to 284333
OutlawProgrammer:
As it turns out, saying your software is "powered by Oracle" is the only way to market things down on Wall St. We didn't need Oracle to run the product, we just needed it to sell the product. Now, anytime management comes up with some crazy harebrained idea that makes no technical sense, I always think twice about the marketing implications.

Well, just wait a leee-ttle bit longer and you can use MySQL instead and still slap that "Powered by Oracle" tag on the product.. :D

np: Das Bierbeben - Delirium (Das Bierbeben)

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 13:05 • by rgmoore (unregistered)
284367 in reply to 284365
Murdog:
Felch:

Is the strange enchanter some call... "Tim"... still in the industry?

He's alive and well and going bald trying to work his magic at Microsoft ;)


Is it vista with a windows 7 button?


Now if they could just launch all the copies of Vista into space, that would be a feature!

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 13:12 • by nickel730 (unregistered)
284368 in reply to 284333
OutlawProgrammer:

Now, anytime management comes up with some crazy harebrained idea that makes no technical sense, I always think twice about the marketing implications.


That's a great perspective. I can't just convince myself this could be the case without knowing for sure though. And I usually don't get access to the right person to answer the "Why do you want it designed *that* way?" question.

Re: Classic WTF: The Cool Cam

2009-09-03 13:20 • by Sam B (unregistered)
This does not surprise me. I worked with Bill Stealey (one of the founders of MicroProse) at his new venture iEntertainment, and this is similar to how WarBirds and his other games are handled.

It's not about quality, as we all know. It's about the cool factor. Nevermind if nothing else works.
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