Comment On Doing the Heavy Lifting

After six years, Todd D. couldn't take the tedium anymore — his company refused to change with the times, and Todd wanted something more engaging. Seeing an opening at a publishing company, it sounded like the ideal change. He'd be going from a big software company to a more progressive publishing company with a software department; a good place for him to show his chops and actually make a difference. He aced his interview, as did the company — they'd proudly told Todd that they were happy to work with cutting-edge technology, had brand-new hardware, and a near-zero turnover rate. It was a no-brainer for him to accept their offer. [expand full text]
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Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:06 • by Code Dependent
Well, that was fun. Was work that hard to find? I'd have been out of there the first day.

And... fist!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:08 • by Annie Nymous (unregistered)
And they still had staff?

I'm amazed at how much people can put up with.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:09 • by DazP
At least he didn't "Punch Out".

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:10 • by B-Rad (unregistered)
212810 in reply to 212808
You have obviously never worked as a Government contractor at a military facility.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:16 • by ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered)
212813 in reply to 212806
I call fake. I would have quit that job the first 5 minutes - after checking first to see if I was on Candid Camera or Punk'd

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:19 • by lunarman55
212814 in reply to 212813
I hope you remembered to punch out while checking to see if you were on Candid Camera!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:19 • by WhiskeyJack
Wow. I had a job in retail (Canadian Tire, woohoo!) that had better policies than that. 1 hour lunch (punched out, though) and TWO fifteen minute breaks on the clock. Sure we had to do all kinds of heavy lifting and dealing with boxes and tape, while wearing our work uniforms, but at least the company paid for those (and 50% of the cost of the steel-toed safety shoes we had to wear).

To punch in or out, they had palm scanners. I remember the first day I started work, I accidentally cut myself in the warehouse (on a nail protruding through one of the wooden shelves). When I trained the scanner with my palm, it must have taken the band-aid on my finger into account, because three days later, when I came in to work with no band-aids on, it refused to recognize my handprint, and I had to train it again.

Quitting that place wasn't the easiest, either. Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:20 • by snoofle
Personally, I would have began looking for a new job after the first five minutes. But there's no way I would have worn a suit while climbing through a warehouse, and if someone had said something to me, I would have spit in his face and walked out.

Q. How long did it take him to find a new gig, and did it turn out to be good?

Oh, and can we please get a description of Todd's anatomically impossible suggestion?

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:22 • by Salami
You always want to take a tour of where you are going to work to see what your cube will be look and also to get a feel for the morale of the company. I remember one place where I interviewed it looked like all the developers were depressed. When I got the lowball salary offer which included 1 week of vacation that you had to be there a year to use, I had a feeling why.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:24 • by Darrin (unregistered)
Yikes. The moment the time clock was mentioned, I would have walked out. If the job is exempt, it should also be exempt from punching in/out.

Of course, that assumes I would have showed up in the first place. I don't do ties. Not for church, weddings, or my boss. I once had a boss that suggested I wear a tie. I sat there, listened to his suggestion, nodded my head, and left his office without any intention of actually doing it. Several months later I had a new job, better benefits, more pay, and no dress code.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:25 • by snoofle
212819 in reply to 212817
Salami:
You always want to take a tour of where you are going to work to see what your cube will be look and also to get a feel for the morale of the company. I remember one place where I interviewed it looked like all the developers were depressed. When I got the lowball salary offer which included 1 week of vacation that you had to be there a year to use, I had a feeling why.

I had an interview a few years back. Six developers spoke with me, each more dejected than the last. I was about to walk out when the manager popped back in and cheerily asked me what I thought. I told him that his staff wants to die, and why in hell would I want to work for him. Then I just walked away in silence.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:25 • by ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered)
212820 in reply to 212815
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:27 • by svm_invictvs
212821 in reply to 212808
Annie Nymous:
And they still had staff?

I'm amazed at how much people can put up with.


Probably pulled in a bunch of entry level guys that they knew wouldn't be able to find another job very easily, there's always those guys to go around.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:28 • by daniel (unregistered)
212823 in reply to 212806
Code Dependent:
And... fist!


According to my collection of German pornography, that isn't anatomically impossible.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:29 • by Ashen (unregistered)
I wouldn't have lasted long there. These people have the wrong attitude about employment. Unfortanetly, people let them. They hire a person to provide them a service. It's a simple business contract. For software support you will provide so much compensation. Business shall not dictate your friends, what is done on your free time etc. If they cannot work out the process to get you a pen, then you can do nothing all day with pay or leave, their choice.

Reminds me of a John Wayne quote, "I don't give jobs, I hire men."

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:30 • by snoofle
212826 in reply to 212820
ChiefCrazyTalk:
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.
Unless, of course, he needed the money, didn't yet have another job, and/or his start date was a ways off, in which case his boss inadvertently did him a favor.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:32 • by DazP
212827 in reply to 212826
snoofle:
ChiefCrazyTalk:
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.
Unless, of course, he needed the money, didn't yet have another job, and/or his start date was a ways off, in which case his boss inadvertently did him a favor.


He talks the reason! WITCH WITCH WITCH!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:35 • by mark11727
212828 in reply to 212816
Rectal-cranial inversion? :o)

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:38 • by jtl (unregistered)
This is why you need to tour the work area during your interview, and be sure to discuss specifics such as dress code, time flexibility, etc.

You are interviewing them as much as they are you.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:42 • by SomeCoder (unregistered)
212832 in reply to 212828
He'd be going from a big software company to a more progressive publishing company with a software department;


This is where the WTF begins. I'm sure some of you have had better experiences with it, but for me, when the company specializes in one thing and has a software development department because times have forced them to have one, it's no fun. The developers get treated like a necessary evil rather than something that keeps the business afloat and you can imagine how fun working in that environment is.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:45 • by interficio
So... do you have to punch out to have a sip of coffee?

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:45 • by bob (unregistered)
212835 in reply to 212826
snoofle:
ChiefCrazyTalk:
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.
Unless, of course, he needed the money, didn't yet have another job, and/or his start date was a ways off, in which case his boss inadvertently did him a favor.

In Canada you have to give two weeks notice and are required to work those two weeks. Also the company is required to pay for two weeks if they fire you. That's why he was scheduled for the next week after quitting.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:45 • by Pecos Bill
I've never understood the concept of wearing a coat in summer when it's broiling outside nor nooses. Oh wait, the noose is so the boss can strangle you at will. I wonder what OSHA would say about that one....

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:46 • by ell0bo (unregistered)
212837 in reply to 212823
nor my ex...

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:46 • by Code Dependent
212838 in reply to 212828
mark11727:
Rectal-cranial inversion? :o)
I was thinking he meant being both parties in a copulative maneuver.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:49 • by Triscopic (unregistered)
212840 in reply to 212827
DazP:

He talks the reason! WITCH WITCH WITCH!


Yes! He turned me into a newt!

...

I got better.

BURN HIM anyway! BURN! BURN! BURN HIM!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:50 • by Dude (unregistered)
I woud give a bill to my boss for a new suit. And i woud start yelling back at boss, that work condition is so bad, that i am impressed so many people works

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:51 • by Former Junior Programmer (unregistered)
Did you have to punch out in order to walk over to the punch out machine to punch out?

CATCH-22!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:51 • by Foo (unregistered)
212844 in reply to 212813
I call fake. I would have quit that job the first 5 minutes - after checking first to see if I was on Candid Camera or Punk'd

Actually, I sort of believe it. If you were fresh out of college from a no-name university and had no professional work references and then managed to have the bad luck to get trapped in this job as your first work experience... you might stick out something like this for a surprisingly long time. I'd also believe that a developer that had a bad reference from "big software company" might try and stick out a job like that for a bit.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:52 • by ahgano (unregistered)
First Red Flag: Boss' son on payroll
Second Red Flag: Boss' wife on the payroll

NEVER work for a "family" business, unless you're a BLOOD reletive of the "family", everyone else falls under the heading of "identured servant".

Also, if you're salaried, and they start telling you to "punch out" to go to the bathroom, head for the door and don't look back.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:53 • by MrEricSir
I think I speak for all of us here when I say that a dress code at a programming job is a showstopper.

Suits and ties are for bankers and lawyers only.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:55 • by ObiWayneKenobi
Let's see. He should have:

A) Reported them to the department of labor. If someone is on salary and you make them clock in/out like an hourly employee, they can be forced to reclassify you as hourly since you're being treated hourly.

B) Reported them to OSHA, since developers are not trained to do warehouse work. If this fucktard of a boss is breaking OSHA rules, I'm sure they'd like to have a word with the company.

C) Told them to fuck off the second he heard the "You must clock out to use the restroom" line.

At least he told them to FOAD.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:56 • by my name is missing (unregistered)
Any place where developers punch in and out and have to wear suits should be punched out at once.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 11:59 • by Cyan (unregistered)
212849 in reply to 212835
Uh, what? There's no such requirement in Canada. You're allowed to walk out whenever you want, for whatever reasons you want. The amount of notice you're required to give is exactly zero.

It's too bad that so many employers have their employees thinking that there is some kind of 'give notice' law on the books when there really isn't.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:00 • by Monkios
212850 in reply to 212838
Code Dependent:
mark11727:
Rectal-cranial inversion? :o)
I was thinking he meant being both parties in a copulative maneuver.

Lick your elbow ?

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:00 • by bshock (unregistered)
Todd's a lot more understanding than I am. I would've started looking for a new job the second they said anything about wearing a tie.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:00 • by DWalker59
Wearing a coat and tie is silly in a company that doesn't have face to face "customer contact". And even then, the customers don't usually come in contact with the developers.

If no one but the owners can see what you're wearing, who are you supposed to "impress" with your coat and tie?

The purpose of good programmers is to write good code, not to look like they are on their way to a fancy social occasion.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:00 • by kswanton
212853 in reply to 212835
bob:
snoofle:
ChiefCrazyTalk:
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.
Unless, of course, he needed the money, didn't yet have another job, and/or his start date was a ways off, in which case his boss inadvertently did him a favor.

In Canada you have to give two weeks notice and are required to work those two weeks. Also the company is required to pay for two weeks if they fire you. That's why he was scheduled for the next week after quitting.


And when you don't show up? Not sure how this law would be enforced...

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:01 • by Bernie (unregistered)
212854 in reply to 212813
ChiefCrazyTalk:
I call fake.

I'm inclined to second that. It just doesn't feel real. (Or, perhaps, too many of the details were changed to protect the guilty.)

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:05 • by morry
and they probably still claim low attrition. because on the books he probably was fired or laid off. People without ethics are more common than you think.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:11 • by Mr. Not Sure (unregistered)
So, who's the author of this third person tale. You can tell it's not that company or Todd. Maybe some fly on every wall where Todd goes. But 17 people commented as if it could be true. Anyone who thinks this is a true tale is too stupid to have a job. And, you can bet they read the article from their job.

I unfortunately read all sent to me. And, it makes me wonder how a paid employee has time to find this crap; and, send it to me, at my job, as if I don't have a full and productive schedule.

Um, that's where most programmers work...

2008-08-19 12:12 • by SirWired (unregistered)
212859 in reply to 212832
SomeCoder:
He'd be going from a big software company to a more progressive publishing company with a software department;


This is where the WTF begins. I'm sure some of you have had better experiences with it, but for me, when the company specializes in one thing and has a software development department because times have forced them to have one, it's no fun. The developers get treated like a necessary evil rather than something that keeps the business afloat and you can imagine how fun working in that environment is.


Most programmers don't work for software companies, most of them do indeed work for corporate IT departments.

SirWired

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:17 • by El Duderino
212861 in reply to 212838
Code Dependent:
I was thinking he meant being both parties in a copulative maneuver.

A quick GIS with Safe Search off will show you that this is not anatomically impossible.

Warning: what has been seen, cannot be un-seen!

Re: Um, that's where most programmers work...

2008-08-19 12:20 • by SomeCoder (unregistered)
212862 in reply to 212859
SirWired:
SomeCoder:
He'd be going from a big software company to a more progressive publishing company with a software department;


This is where the WTF begins. I'm sure some of you have had better experiences with it, but for me, when the company specializes in one thing and has a software development department because times have forced them to have one, it's no fun. The developers get treated like a necessary evil rather than something that keeps the business afloat and you can imagine how fun working in that environment is.


Most programmers don't work for software companies, most of them do indeed work for corporate IT departments.

SirWired


That hasn't been my experience. Almost all programmers I know work for companies that are software companies.

I'm sure there are a lot of non-software company programmers out there but my experiences with such jobs are that you are viewed as a nuisance rather than a solution or helper.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:22 • by J_Random_Hacker (unregistered)
All of you who would just swear at the boss and quit if you found out you had to wear a tie are such wusses. I would have pulled out a bazooka and killed that m#therfucker right there and then the moment the word was out of his mouth.

Because clothes are REALLY IMPORTANT!

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:22 • by Joe Random Canuck (unregistered)
212865 in reply to 212835
bob:
snoofle:
ChiefCrazyTalk:
WhiskeyJack:
Even after I'd given my formal notice, I found that my boss had scheduled me in for the following week. The nice guy that I am, I came in and worked it anyway.
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the REAL WTF.
Unless, of course, he needed the money, didn't yet have another job, and/or his start date was a ways off, in which case his boss inadvertently did him a favor.

In Canada you have to give two weeks notice and are required to work those two weeks. Also the company is required to pay for two weeks if they fire you. That's why he was scheduled for the next week after quitting.


Well first of all, you can't generalize to all of Canada - labour law is under provincial jurisdiction.

In Ontario at least, unless you signed an employment contract where you committed to giving notice, then you have absolutely no legal obligation to give any notice at all. (Of course, that definitely falls into the burning bridges category, but that's a different story.)

The employer IS required to give notice and/or pay severance amounts that vary with length of employment among other things. Depending on circumstances, you can get fired and still take anywhere from 0 to 34 weeks pay out the door with you.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:27 • by jfruh (unregistered)
I call bullshit on at least one aspect of this: unless we're talking about fancy New York book publishers (and probably even then), the publishing industry is notorious for having some of the laxes dress codes around. An editor told that he or she had to wear a suit to work would be just as shocked as programmer.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:29 • by TwoWeekPolice (unregistered)
212867 in reply to 212835
Samsonite...way off.

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:30 • by Brewster (unregistered)
What is a tie ?

Re: Doing the Heavy Lifting

2008-08-19 12:31 • by Code Dependent
212869 in reply to 212858
Mr. Not Sure:
So, who's the author of this third person tale. You can tell it's not that company or Todd. Maybe some fly on every wall where Todd goes. But 17 people commented as if it could be true. Anyone who thinks this is a true tale is too stupid to have a job. And, you can bet they read the article from their job.

I unfortunately read all sent to me. And, it makes me wonder how a paid employee has time to find this crap; and, send it to me, at my job, as if I don't have a full and productive schedule.
So you're chewing out the author of this tale because you're sitting there, on the clock, reading everything that comes down the RSS pipe to you, and you're too busy with your work and schedule and what-all to waste your time on bad stories? Wow... just, wow.
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