Comment On IS THERE A TUTORIAL AVAILABLE?

can't see the images :(

Yea I think that's the WTF here =) No Images! =)

Stephan

Is anyone else getting the google ads in portuguese for this post?

WhyTF did you put a Feedback there? It should be hidden two or three layers deep to reduce the number of lame messages you get like that.

 

"...extensive web-based help files and a training tutorial that spans hundreds of pages."

And you expect anyone to read them?

errr. hey i got a bad coder at my place of work, if i can syphon something horrific do i get a mug [;)]

Is the lack of images the WTF?

No images! WTF!!!

WTF

To me, the WTF is you not understanding the difference, to a non-expert user, between on-line help and a user's manual.



There's a reason I keep the 5-volume, grossly out of date, "Win 32
Programmers Reference" dead tree edition on my bookshelf rather than
relying on Visual Studio's on-line help.

Just proves there are a lot of brilliant people in the world.

Nope and..I'm a portuguese speaker accessing it from Brazil....

I don't know about this one ... as mentioned, there IS a difference between a manual and on-line help ... both have their purposes, but I also often like to have a nice hard-copy to read on the train or whenever.  Help files are nice, but they often don't print very well at all, and it can be quite a manual (no pun intended!) process to print all the pages out one by one ....  And, of course, on-line Tutorials almost never have any kind of printable output at all.

So, I'm not really sure this is much of a WTF ... if they had asked if on-line help was available, or a tutorial, then that would be something else ...

:

There's a reason I keep the 5-volume, grossly out of date, "Win 32
Programmers Reference" dead tree edition on my bookshelf rather than
relying on Visual Studio's on-line help.

Nothing beats a 5-volume out of date programming manual for some relaxing bedtime reading!

[D] I personally like to cuddle up to several of my favorite advanced
assembly language books with a large glass of a liquor of my choice [:D]

Nothing wrong with wanting a manual to curl up with at night.. some people don't enjoy staring at computer screens all day long.  Not really a WTF but someone should definitly fix his caps lock for him.   

Pretty obvious solution really-- move the feedback link to the last page of the tutorial.

...and his glasses...



I don't know, I'd call this a PEBKAC and not a WTF, but close enough.

It is amazing the amount of messages you see on internet forums asking
about how to do something in an application, and the answer is right
there in the help files.

If he or she uses the on-line documentation you can't have him or her stand on their desk and shout "Does anyone know how to read a manual!" [:)]

It is amazing the amount of messages you see on internet forums asking
about how to do something in an application, and the answer is right
there in the help files.

Kinda says something about the usability and overall quality of the help files currently out there.

Maybe he meant a dead tree edition of the manual.

The real WTF is everyone defending this guy. If the guy wants a hard-copy, then he needs to ask for a hard copy. Something along the lines of "I see the online tutorial, but is there a off-line training manual." We can't read minds, people. [;)]

The WTF is that these tards wasted time writing online help... nobody reads that crap, ever.

:

The WTF is that these tards wasted time writing online help... nobody reads that crap, ever.

Yeah, everyone knows the real money is in service and support contracts
anyway. The more difficult something is to use, the more often you can
charge for expert support.

Hey give credit to the guy. At least he's interested in reading a manual. Not like the common victims of RTFM! comments.



There are also several companies who require user manuals for traditional documentation and archival purposes.

Or product had an very limited online help function for about 2 years. All that time at meeting there'd be a todo reading 'expand online help'. After those 2 years we dropped the point and all online help support because not one client had ever complained about the crappiness of the online help. IE. they didn't read it (although there is a help button or icon on just about every page).

Maybe our software is easy to understand (I doubt it.. I understand it, but then I programmed it [:O]), or maybe people aren't as scared to press a random button as they used to be [:P].

There are also very few servicedesk calls asking for a printable manual, or any manual at all.

Drak

I have to agree, I hate online manuals - i never ever read them - give
me a REAL manual that i can go and read while i am in bed.

Aah, rule #1: Create extensive manuals and help topics, but do not expect the customer to see them.  Instead they'd rather call helpdesk or something.

Strange occupation in a bed... :)

Anyway, I rarely saw a user reading any line of any kind of document called "user manual".

They all think that helpdesk will provide them with information not in the book (even for basic stuffs).

 

the real question being : Why do we keep user in IT ???

If they don't RTFM on how to set their VCR (which is not as complicated as the media makes it out to be...), Then, why bother making a print manual? :)

"What's a tutorial? Is that like something that redoes my theme to be consistent with a certain 16th century English architectural style?"

Seriously, is "tutorial" a word you're likely to see anywhere if you don't have much exposure to computers? Maybe if you worked in a university bookstore.

Yes, "Tutorial" is standard for some platforms, but maybe "Getting started with EVS" or "Learn to use EVS" would be better menu captions.

znaps:

It is amazing the amount of messages you see on internet forums asking about how to do something in an application, and the answer is right there in the help files.

That requires some skill and intelligence to be able to FIND the answer.  It's usually a lot faster to ask someone who knows the answer than to find it yourself.  Not saying it's right for people to expect free help on the Internet so they don't have to put the effort into finding it themselves, but a paid subscription to Experts Exchange has saved my company a lot of money in resolving frustrating issues.

Mike R:

If they don't RTFM on how to set their VCR (which is not as complicated as the media makes it out to be...), Then, why bother making a print manual? :)

One of these days someone is going to come up with the idea of combining those self-setting clocks (however they work) with VCRs and make a self-setting VCR clock.  They'd make millions!  Oh, patent pending.

Except nobody uses VCRs anymore.

Like probably most of us here, I often help users in around the office with Excel stuff like complicated formulas... non-technical users always have trouble with LOOKUP's for example.

When they ask for help, I come over, and I can never remember the exact difference between the different types of formulas available (HLOOKUP, VLOOKUP, LOOKUP, etc -- I don't use Excel much) so what I do?  I hit F1 and see what they need.  I do nothing that they are not capable of themselves, and then I tweak the formula using the info from the HELP files to get it to work for them.  Then I mention how easy the HELP files are to use, and how I technically knew NOTHING about this feature two minutes ago but learned everything by being a little pro-active and reading about it, and they kind of nod and say thanks ....  and then two days later they ask me to essentially read the help files again for them....  I never understand it.  

Some people like asking for help, like the previous poster, but I find the answers are almost always there if you just look. And, I personally find it EASIER to read up on things myself than to pose a question to a forum, wait for a reply, clarfiy my needs, give more info, try the suggestions, etc ... Not only that, but with GOOGLE out there, how many questions haven't been asnwered before?  (I think we answer the same 5 questions just about EVERY DAY over a sqlteam.com)

I guess we're all different. I actually DO read books on assembly language sometimes before I go to bed, so I do recognize that I'm not the norm ...

mugs: There are VCRs that read various kinds of time code from TV
signals. For example, in Europe most TV stations broadcast a text
service (Teletext) that includes the time in a specific location on the
screen, and some VCRs can decode that and use it to initialise their
own clock.

Anonymous Moron:

The WTF is that these tards wasted time writing online help... nobody reads that crap, ever.

Well, sure, not people obviously as talented and smart and eloquent as you, but for the rest of us it can come in handy sometimes.

I look forward to enjoing snippets of your work here at the DailyWTF ! [:)]

(Poster Intention Odds: Sincere Opinion: 73%; Troll: 25%; Clever Ironic Sarcasm: 2%; Devil's Advocate: 0%)

Are we sure the WTF isn't that the images weren't initially present in this posting?

:

Are we sure the WTF isn't that the images weren't initially present in this posting?

Allow me to explain that ...

I don't have the ability to upload images via FTP anymore as they blocked all FTP access here at work. I had the idea to uploading the images via the forums software as an attachment. So, I created a message in the "Admin" forums (since no one can see that but me) and uploaded the images. Of course, what I didn't realize is that the forums software actually checks that you're an admin before serving up the attachment. D'oh!

They showed up fine for me though ;-D.

Jeff S: Maybe next time that happens, rather than doing what they ask you should show them how to find out how to do what they asked. If they want some help with LOOKUP, show them that you can search the online help for LOOKUP and it'll show exactly how to use it. Explain that this is true of any function available in Excel.

Sure, I expect they won't take it in the first time, but when you go back the next time and ask "Did you try searching the online help?" they might feel embarassed enough to remember after that.

:

The WTF is that these tards wasted time writing online help... nobody reads that crap, ever.

Indeed!  It's a WTF from the both ends!  [;)]

Ben Hutchings:

mugs: There are VCRs that read various kinds of time code from TV signals. For example, in Europe most TV stations broadcast a text service (Teletext) that includes the time in a specific location on the screen, and some VCRs can decode that and use it to initialise their own clock.

Well dang it, there goes my million dollar idea.  Anyone want to buy a pet rock?

Jeff S.: Of course it made a big difference that you knew to lookup "Lookup" in the Help Index. For some reason "Give me the name of the person for a given ID number" isn't in there. I think there's a geeky skill in knowing what words to look for, which is why help is so often not helpful for many, uh, non-power users. Flounder a couple times with help, and they give up on the entire feature.

But Ted is also right. There's something to be said for encouraging users to use help. I mean why should they go through the trouble of figuring out help if they can just ask computer wiz Jeff down the hall? Even if it just means *he* works through help instead *me*, that's still easier. Next time try, "I'm too busy now. Lookup 'Lookup' in the Help index."

Ted:

Jeff S: Maybe next time that happens, rather than doing what they ask you should show them how to find out how to do what they asked. If they want some help with LOOKUP, show them that you can search the online help for LOOKUP and it'll show exactly how to use it. Explain that this is true of any function available in Excel.

Sure, I expect they won't take it in the first time, but when you go back the next time and ask "Did you try searching the online help?" they might feel embarassed enough to remember after that.

That's exactly what I do ... i pull up the help screen in front of them and read it with them .... and that's exactly what I ask: "remember last time, when I showed you the help screen?"   "umm ... i think so ... can you stop by though"

:

The WTF is that these tards wasted time writing online help... nobody reads that crap, ever.

They are crap but customers require them.  At least in mine line
of work-  govt consulting-  so that may tell you something.

The real WTF that this is hinting at, I think, is the vast number of
people who have asked me, "Where's that?" after I answer a question
with, "I don't know, why don't you check in the help?" 



I mean, really, how many years (decades for some folks who have asked
me this) do you have to use a computer before you start to recognize
that practically every application on every computer in the universe
has conveniently placed a "Help" menu as the rightmost item in the menu
bar. . . except for Windows itself, which forces you to move your eyes
over the help item every single time you work your way from the Start
menu button to the Applications sub-menu.



It's no wonder Microsoft felt the need to dress their online help up
like an office supply and have it start screaming, "HEY! HEY! I'M RIGHT
HERE!" every 10 seconds.



Or am I the only one who has to deal with this?

No, you are unfortunately not alone on that one.

This IS NOT a WTF. There is a huge difference between a tutorial and a training manual. Have you considered the customer wanted to teach other people in his/her company how to use the product? The WTF here is that all these 'great' programmers on this forum seem to not understand the english language...

Can you tell me if there is instructions online for pet rocks if there isnt what store would you buy a manual atdar

Images still not working!