Comment On Monitoring the Email Monitor

The president seems like an asshole.

Control freak alert. Time to dust off the ol' Monster.com resume.

<wtf:badpun>Enough of all this TRASH11 talk!</wtf:badpun>

...and this is why I use my gmail account as much as my work account...over https, of course...

Then there was the one time I came into work to find that my network archives folder had been reassigned overnight to the local user profile of our net admin...on his machine.

A few tubgirls, 2girls1cup, and a goatse should cure the snoop syndrome; if not then it'll certainly be amusing to watch a part of him die inside as he watches it for the first time.

So apparently The President has lots of free time. At least he isn't using it to interfere with the software development effort.

purge:

<wtf:badpun>Enough of all this TRASH11 talk!</wtf:badpun>

Careful. The <badpun> tag has been deprecated in favor of <pun>, as <goodpun> was never implemented.

LOL,

We had a CEO just like that,
It took a while, but eventually Redundancy caught up with him...

I still giggle like a schoolboy whenever I think of him sneaking out of the building hopeing nobody noticed, and the utter satisfaction of giving him 2 finger salutes whenever I see him on the motorway (He lives near me so I see him quite often)

ARSE HOLE....

CAPTCHA: cognac, Yep I often have one

way to instill trust and confidence in your people there Mr President.

captcha: dubya. hmmmm.

Ben:

purge:

<wtf:badpun>Enough of all this TRASH11 talk!</wtf:badpun>

Careful. The <badpun> tag has been deprecated in favor of <pun>, as <goodpun> was never implemented.

<drum:roll type="sting"/>

gabba:

So apparently The President has lots of free time. At least he isn't using it to interfere with the software development effort.

Yeah, good thing he doesn't use his time to do something crazy like run the company.

FredSaw:

Time to dust off the ol' Monster.com resume.

A better approach, if it's possible to do, would be to make "duh Prez" dust off HIS resume. Question is, does the company have stockholders and a Board of Directors? Even if not, a bit of anonymous blogging (or the anonymous threat thereof) might show him the error of his ways, and convince him to seek opportunities elsewhere. In either case, at least the facts (including his identity) can be made public (anonymously if he's still in power), so he can serve as a warning to others.

These kind of gross violations of privacy make me glad that I don't live in a country where it's legal to intervene other people's communications, electronic or otherwise.

If you're in a corporate environment, 'privacy' is whatever the employee handbook defines it as.

And if you're using company email to send messages you don't want the boss to see, then you deserve what you get.

dusting off the resumes is good, but this can be used for mutual profit. The President will be happy to read your response to an email coming from your friend, saying that, yes, you like their offer of a position of senior architect, but you love you job so much, except maybe for the salary...

(worked in my case)

bkendig:

If you're in a corporate environment, 'privacy' is whatever the employee handbook defines it as.

And if you're using company email to send messages you don't want the boss to see, then you deserve what you get.

Like a not-at-all-attractive sales lady sending cellphone pics of her private parts to clients?

/true story

bkendig:

If you're in a corporate environment, 'privacy' is whatever the employee handbook defines it as.

While this might be true in some countries, it's not true in all. Employee handbooks do not override criminal law.

An I the only one here who thought he should have named is the TRASH-80 instead?

Time to send urgent emails to <everyone@company> stating something like:

HELP
Security breached. Some hacker using name TRASH11 is intercepting communication with clients. DO NOT send any email until this security critical accident is solved. Our company profit is at the stake.
.....


Preferably communicate this with others and make some email flamewar about it. Inside company only ofcourse. Preferrably start it, while President is somwhere else, so he cant to stop it in time. ;-)

Zock:

bkendig:

If you're in a corporate environment, 'privacy' is whatever the employee handbook defines it as.

While this might be true in some countries, it's not true in all. Employee handbooks do not override criminal law.

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

very sad story, actually....

chrismcb:

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

In the same countries that it is illegal to, say, put a hidden camera in the 'company equipment' lady's room. At least I hope so.

CAPTCHA: bathe. how relevant.

chrismcb:

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time. Especially if it's done covertly. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it's most countries.

You know, even in the US companies have regulations that require certain things (like breaks and overtime pay) for certain workers. Just because you're working for someone doesn't mean they own you. Even when you're at work.

Manic Mailman:

chrismcb:

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time. Especially if it's done covertly. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it's most countries.

If there are so many countries that have these laws, maybe you'd like to name one instead of being vague and unverifiable?

Manic Mailman:

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time.

Yeah... Pretty sure where I live they'd go to jail for secretly recording things. I know call centers are allowed to record/listen in on calls here, but operators must be aware of it, and must inform the other person at the beginning of every call. Other than that, it's a no-no.

You can always monitor your employees by walking into their offices randomly. Wouldn't it be fun to sneak behind one of them and then all of a sudden start yelling at them? ^^

Or you just monitor network traffic - you can do that without anyone noticing. (at least in a very small network under specific circumstances)

PM:

Manic Mailman:

chrismcb:

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time. Especially if it's done covertly. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it's most countries.

If there are so many countries that have these laws, maybe you'd like to name one instead of being vague and unverifiable?

France is one of these. We have pretty strict laws on privacy, especially related to "electronic" information gathering & usage.

Here it is forbidden for an employer to read any personal e-mail of an employee, even if the company forbids using the company's time & hardware for that. The CNIL ("Commission Nationale Informatique & Libertes", the relevant authority in matters of privacy & electronic data gathering in France) said so, and justice courts have upholded that decision.

A relevant link (in French, sorry):
http://www.solutionslab.com/french/publications/articles/Email_Bureau_Personnel_Professionnel.cfm


As another example of what the CNIL can decide (in English this time):
http://www.primidi.com/2004/07/04.html

In general, the CNIL seems to be of the opinion that you should not be under electronic surveillance without your knowledge, and should not be denied access to the corresponding information.

Then again, I'm not an expert on the CNIL and there might be some other side to those decisions, but, all in all, they seem to be on the privacy right side more often than not.

evilghost:

A few tubgirls, 2girls1cup, and a goatse should cure the snoop syndrome; if not then it'll certainly be amusing to watch a part of him die inside as he watches it for the first time.

That would be the weak part, he'd be stronger then.

Zock:

These kind of gross violations of privacy make me glad that I don't live in a country where it's legal to intervene other people's communications, electronic or otherwise.

Obviously you don't live where I do... in the USA.

PM:

If there are so many countries that have these laws, maybe you'd like to name one instead of being vague and unverifiable?

One of them is Hungary, but I guess all EU countries have similar laws.

If you have your name in your company email address (even if only part of your name) then it is assumed that it is your private mailbox, and no one but you have the legal right to read your mails. You can show them to your boss if you want to, but he can't legally read them without your consent, behind your back. Doesn't matter that the infrastructure is company property or those mails are "bussiness mails".

tin:

Manic Mailman:

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time.

Yeah... Pretty sure where I live they'd go to jail for secretly recording things. I know call centers are allowed to record/listen in on calls here, but operators must be aware of it, and must inform the other person at the beginning of every call. Other than that, it's a no-no.

That's why so many companies give you an IT policy doc to sign off on saying that company computers, phones etc are for business only and all activity can be monitored to ensure such is the case..that way it's no longer uninformed monitoring.

If ever there was a sign that it was time to find a new job...

FredSaw:

Zock:

These kind of gross violations of privacy make me glad that I don't live in a country where it's legal to intervene other people's communications, electronic or otherwise.

Obviously you don't live where I do... in the USA.

Leave.

Fairly sure that type of invasion of privacy is illegal in Australia (my location) as well.

Even if it was legal, there's no way I'd tolerate that. I like working under conditions where my employer allows me some degree of trust. Screw having him read every email I send or receive. I'd confront senior management first (board of directors or other stakeholders who might care). If no favourable outcome came of that, I'd be finding a new job ASAP.

operagost:

FredSaw:

Zock:

These kind of gross violations of privacy make me glad that I don't live in a country where it's legal to intervene other people's communications, electronic or otherwise.

Obviously you don't live where I do... in the USA.

Leave.

Thanks for the blind nationalistic drivel, but I'd rather stay here and fight to preserve the Bill of Rights, impeach the would-be dictators, and make the USA a country that other countries can respect rather than hate.

Save our Bill of Rights

FredSaw:

operagost:

Leave.

Thanks for the blind nationalistic drivel...

What part of "Leave" is nationalistic?

Eam:

FredSaw:

operagost:

Leave.

Thanks for the blind nationalistic drivel...

What part of "Leave" is nationalistic?

If I don't like it here, I should leave. I should accept things the way they are, or get out. My country, right or wrong. Don't talk bad about mah country, bwah. When you're runnin' down our country, hoss, you walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

You don't have the first clue what the USA is all about. This is a democracy... a country run by the people. When we see something we don't like here, we work to change it. I'm one of the people, and what I want counts. Most of the people are asleep right now, and the country is pretty much being taken over by a few power-mongers with no scruples who want to declare themselves above the law; i.e., dictators. You telling me to leave is not helping. It's just blind nationalistic stupidity: "My country, right or wrong... and my president, right or wrong, just because he's president". Bullshit. The president and the VP are nothing more than two citizens, two members of "the people". They have no authority above the law, and if citizens like me stand up and fight, they won't wind up blatantly taking that authority for themselves.

Save our Bill of Rights

FredSaw:

If I don't like it here, I should leave.

But are you sure he was being nationalistic? Perhaps he just doesn't like you, and wants you to leave.

Fairly sure that type of invasion of privacy is illegal in Australia (my location) as well

Sure is. There are also laws about how security cameras can be aimed - they can't be positioned for watching people do their work!

Monitoring a dangerous machine, yes. Monitoring an area to see when people come and go, yes, but there must be a sign. Watching a shop assistant to see everything they do while the till is open, no. Installing a camera for security or surveillance without a security licence, no.

You forgot to declare the wtf namespace. Here ya go:

<wtf:badpun xmlns wtf='worsethanfailure.com/Brillant'>
Enough of all this TRASH11 talk<wtf:emphasis role='Bang'/>
</wtf:badpun>

FredSaw:

Zock:

These kind of gross violations of privacy make me glad that I don't live in a country where it's legal to intervene other people's communications, electronic or otherwise.

Obviously you don't live where I do... in the USA.

Yep, and I'm happy that I don't. I actually like to live in a country where people still have rights and democracy and actually works. ;)

PM:

Manic Mailman:

chrismcb:

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time. Especially if it's done covertly. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it's most countries.

If there are so many countries that have these laws, maybe you'd like to name one instead of being vague and unverifiable?

The European Union, all of those.

The privacy issue aside, it really annoys me when the boss starts obstructing other people's jobs because of stupid stuff like that. I don't try to run the company, don't try to mess with my work area.

Mark:

You forgot to declare the wtf namespace. Here ya go:

<wtf:badpun xmlns wtf='worsethanfailure.com/Brillant'>
Enough of all this TRASH11 talk<wtf:emphasis role='Bang'/>
</wtf:badpun>

Well, you made a few mistakes there, but the biggest one at a not-just-syntax level is this: you need to namespace your attributes and attribute values too so that they can all be machine-understandable. Perhaps like this:

<ns1:badpun xmlns:ns1='http://worsethanfailure.com/Brillant'>Enough of all this TRASH11 talk<ns2:emphasis xmlns:ns2='http://worsethanfailure.com/Brillant' xmlns:ns3='http://someother.org/acting' xmlns:ns4='http://someother.org/emphasisstyles' ns3:role='ns4:Bang'/></ns1:badpun>

Now, isn't that better? Far less ambiguous! (Yes, I've used webservices for real. Help!)

Pingmaster:

That's why so many companies give you an IT policy doc to sign off on saying that company computers, phones etc are for business only and all activity can be monitored to ensure such is the case..that way it's no longer uninformed monitoring.

Yes, that's the case in the UK. You can't monitor employee activity unless you tell them you do. This could be in the contract of employment or separately. Most employers will do this.

In fact, most won't do anything unless there is cause for suspicion. Many companies trust their employees to be sensible.

But, if you think 'Fred' is sexually harassing people by email, or is giving out confidential information, what you DON'T want to have to do is to go up to Fred and say 'is it OK if we monitor your communications?' - so you get the agreement from everyone beforehand, just in case someone's comms NEED monitoring.

(AFAICT, as long as you tell all your employees that you have hidden cameras in the bathrooms, that would be allowed as well - you might not have any employees left though.)

chrismcb:

Zock:

bkendig:

If you're in a corporate environment, 'privacy' is whatever the employee handbook defines it as.

While this might be true in some countries, it's not true in all. Employee handbooks do not override criminal law.

What countries is it illegal to watch the employees perform work on company time with company equipment?

Norway. You are not allowed to read, intercept or even ask for employees emails even in a workplace. You are not even allowed to look into their private documents or anything. Actually you aren't even allowed to fire them for surfing dubious sites if it doesn't interfere with work.

Pingmaster:

tin:

Manic Mailman:

Many countries have privacy laws that make it illegal to snoop on employee's communication, even when using company equipment and on company time.

Yeah... Pretty sure where I live they'd go to jail for secretly recording things. I know call centers are allowed to record/listen in on calls here, but operators must be aware of it, and must inform the other person at the beginning of every call. Other than that, it's a no-no.

That's why so many companies give you an IT policy doc to sign off on saying that company computers, phones etc are for business only and all activity can be monitored to ensure such is the case..that way it's no longer uninformed monitoring.

Illegal in Norway, can't override law with inhouse contracts.

FredSaw:

Eam:

FredSaw:

operagost:

Leave.

Thanks for the blind nationalistic drivel...

What part of "Leave" is nationalistic?

If I don't like it here, I should leave. <snip/>

Perhaps he was pulling, not pushing.

nomdeplume:

FredSaw:

If I don't like it here, I should leave.

But are you sure he was being nationalistic? Perhaps he just doesn't like you, and wants you to leave.

That'll be okay. He can sit there wanting me to leave all day long.

SQB:

Perhaps he was pulling, not pushing.

Pulling me to another country? Or pulling me into action? Actually, I have considered a permanent move to someplace like Canada or Spain. Only thing is, I worry that my obviously USA speech, knowledge and culture would be associated with support for the Bush Regime.

evilghost:

A few tubgirls, 2girls1cup, and a goatse should cure the snoop syndrome; if not then it'll certainly be amusing to watch a part of him die inside as he watches it for the first time.

Ok.. I've heard of the first 1 and the last 1, but what's the middle one? Please don't make me watch it to know :)