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LOL, this never occured to me - the first letters of the weekdays are an acronym for More Than W. T. F.

Maybe I'm too Old or too young to have simpathy for the bastard that coded the site....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37996592430@N01/274283768 for the same error in another browser

And, a bit further google searching (distinctive typo) and we have the culprit: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex6/popcalendar.htm

It appears that this was a script that uses document.all or document.layers, and they updated the error message (but not the code) when the DOM became standardized with getElementById and friends.

Summary - the code will work on any IE after 4.x, and any netscape 4.x (but not later). It might work on opera, since I think opera supports document.all

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

Random832:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37996592430@N01/274283768 for the same error in another browser

And, a bit further google searching (distinctive typo) and we have the culprit: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex6/popcalendar.htm

It appears that this was a script that uses document.all or document.layers, and they updated the error message (but not the code) when the DOM became standardized with getElementById and friends.

Summary - the code will work on any IE after 4.x, and any netscape 4.x (but not later). It might work on opera, since I think opera supports document.all

It doesn't work on my version of Opera (8.54). The calendar shows, but the year is 107 and 108, and when I select a date, it puts something like "05/10/-1793" in the text box.

I learned to avoid anything from dynamicdrive.com

Proof that it's not IE only, or "Particular version of IE" only. I call "Not WTF" on this error message. Put simply, your browser _is_ too modern, since it ditched the legacy APIs this script depends on.

omfud, they usind de dokumunt struchure!

PS: I didn't realize Wed/Thur/Fri was WTF either, hah!

Rick:

It doesn't work on my version of Opera (8.54). The calendar shows, but the year is 107 and 108, and when I select a date, it puts something like "05/10/-1793" in the text box.

I learned to avoid anything from dynamicdrive.com

To be fair to them, this is a Y2K problem caused by an ambiguity in the original javascript requirements. See http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/show.dml/738966 or my replies on a recent thread here.

ISTR Opera changes its behavior in this regard if you have it identify as IE. And the fact that the rest of it worked so that you got to where it was putting a bad year in the box kind of proves my point. Otherwise, see if it works with dates in the 20th century.

ahh 1793 BC that was sad year. Sin-muballit father of Hammurabi passed away. And in what is now India the lunar eclipse on 19th April 1793 BC marked the end of the reign of Ibbisin as well.

travisowens:

omfud, they usind de dokumunt struchure!

PS: I didn't realize Wed/Thur/Fri was WTF either, hah!

then you missed half of the revelation...

M T W T F = More Than WTF
or the days of the week, which seems more than appropriate with my current tasks.

ahnfelt:

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

FYI: There are at least 22 countries (all middle-east) in which the week-end is Friday and Saturday. Guess which first day of the week would be there..

Youssef:

ahnfelt:

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

FYI: There are at least 22 countries (all middle-east) in which the week-end is Friday and Saturday. Guess which first day of the week would be there..

Weeks used to start at Sundays in Europe too, btw.

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

galgorah:

ahh 1793 BC that was sad year. Sin-muballit father of Hammurabi passed away. And in what is now India the lunar eclipse on 19th April 1793 BC marked the end of the reign of Ibbisin as well.

I would think that since there was no year 0, 0 would map to 1 B.C., and thus -1793 would have to refer to 1794 B.C.

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

All of them?

England here, calendars show Sunday as week start. As does Google Calendar. In fact almost everything I've seen does.

Zargon:

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

All of them?

Do you work for Microsoft? They are the only ones I know that can give such a technically correct answer that is so useless.
So how many different calendars do you have; one, five, one hundred? And they can't be all the same, notice I said different.

Eulex:

Youssef:

ahnfelt:

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

FYI: There are at least 22 countries (all middle-east) in which the week-end is Friday and Saturday. Guess which first day of the week would be there..

Weeks used to start at Sundays in Europe too, btw.

on the 7th day God rested. In the Old testament the 7th day was Saturday. hence the week if you really want to pick a first day starts on sunday. I prefer Tuesday, Missing the horrors of Monday altogether as it doesn't exist in my personal 19 day week.

I never noticed it before but my phone shows Sunday as the first day and the computer shows Monday...

Oo

KattMan:

Zargon:

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

All of them?

Do you work for Microsoft? They are the only ones I know that can give such a technically correct answer that is so useless.
So how many different calendars do you have; one, five, one hundred? And they can't be all the same, notice I said different.

Do you really not see that this is a localization issue? As for me, any properly coded calendar in a web- or windows-application (i.e. any one bothering with localization) will show Monday as the first day of the week, as my computer is set to Swedish settings. Any printed calendar I have is printed in Sweden, and thus also have Monday as the first day of the week. Although I realize the question wasn't addressed to me, in my case that's five or so printed calendars, and a vast number of digital ones (email proggy, system clock, google calendar when visiting with a swedish account, etc)

What's far worse is how you seem to completely miss the satire in the original post stating that beginning a week with a Sunday is a WTF.

abx:

KattMan:

Zargon:

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

All of them?

Do you work for Microsoft? They are the only ones I know that can give such a technically correct answer that is so useless.
So how many different calendars do you have; one, five, one hundred? And they can't be all the same, notice I said different.

Do you really not see that this is a localization issue? As for me, any properly coded calendar in a web- or windows-application (i.e. any one bothering with localization) will show Monday as the first day of the week, as my computer is set to Swedish settings. Any printed calendar I have is printed in Sweden, and thus also have Monday as the first day of the week. Although I realize the question wasn't addressed to me, in my case that's five or so printed calendars, and a vast number of digital ones (email proggy, system clock, google calendar when visiting with a swedish account, etc)

What's far worse is how you seem to completely miss the satire in the original post stating that beginning a week with a Sunday is a WTF.

Nope didn't miss it, you missed mine. My post as purely to take an obtuse stab at MS and their right but wrong answers.

well it still looks like a bad year. The Dynasty of Isin ended.

[quote user="burned"]
...
Weeks used to start at Sundays in Europe too, btw.[/quote]

on the 7th day God rested. In the Old testament the 7th day was Saturday. hence the week if you really want to pick a first day starts on sunday. I prefer Tuesday, Missing the horrors of Monday altogether as it doesn't exist in my personal 19 day week.[/quote]
"On the 7th day God rested." Are you aware that the Jews have Sabbath at Saturday? So Sunday is the first day of the week, the day Christ arose from the grave, the day New Life started.

I thought Bush would educate the Americans a bit on that, what a shame ;)

Eulex:

Youssef:

ahnfelt:

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

FYI: There are at least 22 countries (all middle-east) in which the week-end is Friday and Saturday. Guess which first day of the week would be there..

Weeks used to start at Sundays in Europe too, btw.

Well not in all European countries. Here in Finland it's Monday-Sunday which makes sense to me. Europe isn't like a one big country like US, we've got plenty of small countries which all have local standards.

His majesty desired I would take some other opportunity of bringing all the rest of his enemy's ships into his ports. And so unmeasureable is the ambition of princes, that he seemed to think of nothing less than reducing the whole empire of Blefuscu into a province, and governing it, by a viceroy; of destroying the Sunday-endian exiles, and compelling that people to end the week on Saturday, by which he would remain the sole monarch of the whole world.

Captcha: waffles

KattMan:

Nope didn't miss it, you missed mine. My post as purely to take an obtuse stab at MS and their right but wrong answers.

And, like a lot of criticism of MS and their software (though far from all of it... I'd say people bat about .500), it's pure BS.

In a lot of the world, starting on Monday is the actual right answer, and starting on Sunday is the "right but wrong" answer.

EvanED:

KattMan:

Nope didn't miss it, you missed mine. My post as purely to take an obtuse stab at MS and their right but wrong answers.

And, like a lot of criticism of MS and their software (though far from all of it... I'd say people bat about .500), it's pure BS.

In a lot of the world, starting on Monday is the actual right answer, and starting on Sunday is the "right but wrong" answer.

So you must be management then.


And with that statement I feel like I need to explain the whole process, because management will never understand it.

A man flying in a hot air balloon suddenly realizes he’s lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts to get directions, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"

The man below says: "Yes, you're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field."

"You must work for Microsoft," says the balloonist.

"I do" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but It's of no use to anyone." The man below replies, "You must work in management."

"I do" replies the balloonist, "But how did you know?"

"Well", says the man, "you don’t know where you are, or where you’re going, you expect me to be able to help. You’re in the same position you were before we met, but now it’s my fault."

I know there are different variations of this, but this works well enough.

EvanED:

KattMan:

Nope didn't miss it, you missed mine. My post as purely to take an obtuse stab at MS and their right but wrong answers.

And, like a lot of criticism of MS and their software (though far from all of it... I'd say people bat about .500), it's pure BS.

In a lot of the world, starting on Monday is the actual right answer, and starting on Sunday is the "right but wrong" answer.

In the end there is no right or wrong about the first day of the week, especially in IT. Servers don't wait till Monday at 9AM to crash just so we can have our weekends free.

The right answer was posted previously, internationalization should be used to start the week on the appropriate day for your region.

The only wrong answer is insisting that it is a particular day regardless of where you are.

Kemp:

England here, calendars show Sunday as week start. As does Google Calendar. In fact almost everything I've seen does.

Some calendars do, some don't. It's not consistent (as if it matters!) And Google Calendar lets you configure which day of the week comes first.

Oh man. The intranet site I inherited uses that same goofy little calendar. I had to do some pretty freaky stuff to it to make it work with Firefox. It's pretty nice once it works, but... shudder.

So... What's the big deal about the calendar!? everyone in here has lived with it through all of their lives... Even if the week started on Sunday or Monday... this is a "MTWTF" :P

Reminds me of the old programs from back when screen resolution was either 640x480 or 800x600. Tried to run something on my spiffy new 1024x768, and it told me my screen resolution was != 800x600, therefore too low...

KattMan:

In the end there is no right or wrong about the first day of the week, especially in IT. Servers don't wait till Monday at 9AM to crash just so we can have our weekends free.

The right answer was posted previously, internationalization should be used to start the week on the appropriate day for your region.

The only wrong answer is insisting that it is a particular day regardless of where you are.

Exactly. So why did you say that a calendar was "right but wrong" and "useless" for starting on Monday?

Weeks STILL start on Sunday in most of Europe. The weekend is still Saturday and Sunday, though.

Quick, someone register wednesdaythursdayfriday.com before Alex gets teh brite idea to rename again!

Youssef:

ahnfelt:

Yeah, it's a real WTF to start the week on Sunday!

FYI: There are at least 22 countries (all middle-east) in which the week-end is Friday and Saturday. Guess which first day of the week would be there..

The UAE changed to Friday-Saturday weekend from Thursday-Friday weekend last year or so. Kuwait will make the same change on September 1st, 2007.

Same as New Zealand. I've never known anything but Sunday to Saturday for the days of the week.

KattMan:

Zargon:

How many calendars do you have that don't show Sunday as the first day of the week?

All of them?

Do you work for Microsoft? They are the only ones I know that can give such a technically correct answer that is so useless.
So how many different calendars do you have; one, five, one hundred? And they can't be all the same, notice I said different.

And looking around me here, sitting in an office in London, the calendar in Windows starts the week on a Monday, the Google apps calendar starts on a Monday, the oh-so-amusing golf calendar on the wall nearby starts on a Monday, my analogue watch doesn't do days, the Blackberry starts on a Monday.

And finally, I don't normally turn up for work until Monday!

EvanED:

Exactly. So why did you say that a calendar was "right but wrong" and "useless" for starting on Monday?

The only statement I see above that says "right but wrong" is complaining about someone's answer "all of them" in response to "how many calendars do you have that start the week on [whichever day]".

I've come across several different pieces of software (both online and regular) that won't accept new versions of whatever they need to run on (from flash to directX). "You're running out of date software, version 8. Please install version 5 to continue."

Random832:

EvanED:

Exactly. So why did you say that a calendar was "right but wrong" and "useless" for starting on Monday?

The only statement I see above that says "right but wrong" is complaining about someone's answer "all of them" in response to "how many calendars do you have that start the week on [whichever day]".

Ohhhhh... now that you put it that way, it's obvious it was intended that way and I'm an idiot.

I was reading the post as saying that calendars starting on Monday are right but wrong.

bob the dingo:

I've come across several different pieces of software (both online and regular) that won't accept new versions of whatever they need to run on (from flash to directX). "You're running out of date software, version 8. Please install version 5 to continue."

My favorite, a DirectX one, was the Fallout installer that made the asssumption that DirectX would never, ever be ported to any version of Windows NT.

Try to run it on Windows 2000, and it gives you a message like, "you are using Windows NT, will does not have DirectX." So stupid. You had to manually install it to get past the stupidity.

Lesson for software developers: Check FEATURES, not VERSIONS. If you want to know if DirectX is installed, check it's version number (however that's done in Windows.) If you want to know if you can use document.all, check "typeof(document.all) != 'undefined'" first in JS. It's easy.

Again, this error message _was_ a result of checking for features. The features it relied on are in fact obsolete, so saying someone's browser is too modern was a reasonable thing to say.

Check FEATURES, not VERSIONS. If you want to know if DirectX is installed, check it's version number (however that's done in Windows.)

Irony, much? While this is better than checking for the version of windows, in fact web browser javascript bits are pretty much the _only_ thing that truly let you check for features and not versions of _something_.

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