Comment On Student Initiative

phirst

A very funny WTF, but at the same time a very common one (sadly). I've heard so many stories about CS students paying to have projects completed.

And to think I actually studied and wrote my own C++ chess program (which didn't totally work). But I was happing getting a C+ grade, ironically.

It's been a while since my last Data Structures class but I'm pretty sure you don't need OpenGL to write a stack or a queue...

That is so very sad.

Especially so because their abuse forced him to take his stuff down. I like it when professors put their notes and lecture materials online because it can sometimes be very useful, especially if I'm taking his class. It wouldn't have been so bad if they were merely looking to learn, but it seems to me that they were just cheating. It strikes me as stupid that they would ask a professor to help them with that.

The funny thing is that most professors I know would be more than happy to help someone figure out the project on their own.

Example Conversation:
Foreign Student (English corrected): I noticed your page of lecture notes. I was hoping you could tell me more about how to use that theory in the project I am working on.
Professor: Sure, you could use that tool in this way to complete that task. (note: task is a small part of overall project, not the assignment itself)

I have used this many times with the electronics shop on campus, and I haven't been a student there for years. They know much more about the different timing circuits available than I do, and are happy to help, especially since they sell the parts. They also like to see it when it's done, which is pretty cool too.

Outlaw Programmer:

It's been a while since my last Data Structures class but I'm pretty sure you don't need OpenGL to write a stack or a queue...

Yeah, but it helps if you want to model it in 3d.

True, but 3D-rendered queues are much more enterprisey.

Anonymous Cowardly Lion:

That is so very sad.

Especially so because their abuse forced him to take his stuff down. I like it when professors put their notes and lecture materials online because it can sometimes be very useful, especially if I'm taking his class. It wouldn't have been so bad if they were merely looking to learn, but it seems to me that they were just cheating. It strikes me as stupid that they would ask a professor to help them with that.

No kidding, the first one actually offered to pay the professor to do his project, how stupid is that! Even the notion of cheating could probably get the student expelled and the professor fired. If the student had til monday to do a project in computer graphics, that means he procrastinated (not to say that we were all much better in college) and wants somebody to bail him out instead of knuckling down and pulling some all nighters. If he had any knowledge of all of data structures, algorithms, etc, he could probably have done at least some minimal graphics, even if it did take him til Monday to do it. If he doesn't know that stuff already, why is he taking a course in computer graphics ? Seems like he skipped a step. Graphics are nothing but a visual representation of those structures.

Why doesn't he just password protect all of his material online like my professors do?

Kind sir,

Plz send codez for teh daily wtf website. I am werking on simular projec and need it dun by next weak. I wud be muchly thankful to your for help rendered.

Rachmed Somerandomforeignsoundingname
Bangalore, India

-----------------------------
I never get tired of these things. As sad as they may be. It's one thing to ask for help, but to basically ask for someone else to do your work??

So THAT'S how all the outsourcers in India get their training for posting to blogs asking for solutions to their projects!

I did a project for my ex-gf one time for $50. I rationalized that it was ok because she was in a different country, and if she wanted to pay her way through Comp Sci 100, that's her own bad decision.

http://www.oxbridgeessays.com/

Anonymous Cowardly Lion:

That is so very sad.

Especially so because their abuse forced him to take his stuff down. I like it when professors put their notes and lecture materials online because it can sometimes be very useful, especially if I'm taking his class.

Sane proffesors put a simple passwords on their stuff that they give out in first class or simply write up somewhere on course materials. Mine did.

Other than that... I don't understand people who pay for schoolwork. Really. School is for learning. Coursework is for learning. You don't learn shit if someone else does that!

I'm surprised he did not get a cease and desist letter for trademark infringement for "Push Pops"

http://www.oldtimecandy.com/push-pops.htm

That would have been an even bigger WTF.

This is all too common, especially in associate and bachelor's-level instruction.

Hell, I once had a boyfriend offer to do an entry-level programming assignment for me, just because I asked for help with one part! Lots of students don't get the concept that you're assigned these projects so you can LEARN something, not to produce a deliverable.

death:

Other than that... I don't understand people who pay for schoolwork. Really. School is for learning. Coursework is for learning. You don't learn shit if someone else does that!

I agree that paying for schoolwork kind of defeats the purpose. On the other hand, I am happy to accept payment for doing homework. :)

That's really BS. Why is the stereotype that it's always CS students that don't know how to use proper programing techniques, or write their own assignments? Why are the Engineers to glorified that they never screw up or cheat? In my current position, I've seen way more Engineers that didn't know the basics about programing than the CS grads.

Flustered

Lloyd:

So THAT'S how all the outsourcers in India get their training for posting to blogs asking for solutions to their projects!

Just follow the official MATLAB forums for some while and you'll see how true that is... :-(

/Carsten

Durka Durka mohammad jihad! $150 plz.

Stewie:

That's really BS. Why is the stereotype that it's always CS students that don't know how to use proper programing techniques, or write their own assignments? Why are the Engineers to glorified that they never screw up or cheat? In my current position, I've seen way more Engineers that didn't know the basics about programing than the CS grads.

Because CS students are future code monkeys, everybody knows that. Write this method and we'll give you a nice banana!!!!

I'm hoping that this prof was trying to teach something other than data queues to his students. If he's teaching OpenGL then yeah, this would be a great beginner assignment, otherwise, it's overkill. Off the top of my head, in order to correctly full fill the assignment the students would have to understand a windowing toolkit (GLUT or WGL or similar), matrices, vertices, projections, view vs model rotation/translation, etc.

But yeah, I don't understand the mentality of those who cheat. Sure, I hated math, but my only regret now, is that I didn't study it more. And that was in HS (I never felt like wasting my money on a CS degree). It seems that some "kids" these days think that after college you will magically find a job just by flashing that little piece of paper. Well, folks, you have to know something as well to get a job.

Outlaw Programmer:

It's been a while since my last Data Structures class but I'm pretty sure you don't need OpenGL to write a stack or a queue...

You would if it was the requirement for the assignment.

Two of the three emails that were noted had the name of the University where the person was studying. He should go on to their websites ... find an email address for the head of the department and forward the emails that he received to the head of the department.

What makes matters even worse, is that the idiots would pay for this.. It's not like it's impossible to find the source code for a queue or a stack somewhere online.

That being said, wouldn't it be faster to implement your own structures that to understand code written by another.. Also, how the .... do you get a CS degree without knowing how to implement a stack?

tbcpp:

It seems that some "kids" these days think that after college you will magically find a job just by flashing that little piece of paper. Well, folks, you have to know something as well to get a job.

I think the variety of code snippets and WTFs we see on this site just proves that no, you don't need to know something to get a job.

It's pretty sad, really.

Part of working my way through school involved tutoring. The college I went to would, at your request, put your name down as an available tutor for any class you got an A in so my name was down for most of the classes I took there, not just CS. At a tech college that only had CS, IT, and EE degrees... and all of them needed to take atleast intro to C++... there were far more IT and EE people calling me up all the time (up to a year after I graduated) asking me if they could pay me to complete homework assignments.

How they expected that would help them pass tests in the class, I'll never know.

jgayhart:

On the other hand, I am happy to accept payment for doing homework. :)

I was once accused by a professor of designing and coding someone else's project --- a very attractive girl --- in exchange for sex. I laughed and replied "I wish!"

It turned out that she had collaborated with another student, not me; I was exonerated. Like everyone else posting here, I was both amused and depressed that some people did not see any problem in buying finished assignments.

TroelsL:

What makes matters even worse, is that the idiots would pay for this.. It's not like it's impossible to find the source code for a queue or a stack somewhere online.

That being said, wouldn't it be faster to implement your own structures that to understand code written by another.. Also, how the .... do you get a CS degree without knowing how to implement a stack?

Easy, just produce a stack, even if you paid for it with a stack of cash.

tbcpp:

It seems that some "kids" these days think that after college you will magically find a job just by flashing that little piece of paper. Well, folks, you have to know something as well to get a job.

You haven't been reading here long, have you?

tbcpp:

It seems that some "kids" these days think that after college you will magically find a job just by flashing that little piece of paper. Well, folks, you have to know something as well to get a job.

If that were true, there would be a lot fewer articles on this website.

SomeCoder:

tbcpp:

It seems that some "kids" these days think that after college you will magically find a job just by flashing that little piece of paper. Well, folks, you have to know something as well to get a job.

I think the variety of code snippets and WTFs we see on this site just proves that no, you don't need to know something to get a job.

It's pretty sad, really.

Correct, all you need is a piece of paper. It really doesn't surprise me, everything we are told is that you need a degree to do whatever, not that you need the knowledge. The degree is just a piece of paper.

I used to be the manager of the forums area for a Java programming site and it was sad how quickly many of them devolved into places where people just posted their homework questions. What really stunned me though was how casual people were about it, and how totally lacking in social graces they were. many didn't even both with "Hey, can anyone help me, I'd really appreciate it" niceities -- it was just "This is my assignment, please do it." I think people sometimes hear "you can get answers on the Internet" and don't think about the actual human beings they'd be interacting with.

I think more worrying is the offer to 'do a business'

OMG! This reminds me of a UI course at Uni, only that half the class could use HTML or whatever they liked while the other half HAD to code their UI in c++ making use of "DirectX".

I failed, as my DirectX utilising code did not run so well under the copy of Mac OS the lecturer ran. When I learnt that the rest of my half of the class passed having ignored the spec and knocked up basic web-pages too... Well, it was obvious by my drinking and yelling that I learnt alot about specifications that day!

anitra:

Lots of students don't get the concept that you're assigned these projects so you can LEARN something, not to produce a deliverable.

The root of the problem is that lots of teachers don't grasp that concept, either.

Outlaw Programmer:

It's been a while since my last Data Structures class but I'm pretty sure you don't need OpenGL to write a stack or a queue...

Well that's the real WTF. He just wants the animation and not the actual data structure and operations ]:-> But hell, once you know how it works, should not be too difficult to produce teh codez

Bah, I wrote a Third Person Perspective (above and behind the ship) Space Invaders clone for the end project of my computer science class over a weekend, and that was with designing the graphics nothing external was all done with vertexes. It had all the features except multiple levels.

A few years ago, Rob Bateman worked as a programming lecturer at Bourenmouth University.[...]

Shouldn't that be "Bournemouth University"?

Outlaw Programmer:

It's been a while since my last Data Structures class but I'm pretty sure you don't need OpenGL to write a stack or a queue...

I never took data structures but was thinking the same thing.

Wait a minute. The professor assigned half to code with HTML or whatever, and the other half to use DirectX but the program for DirectX is suppose to be ran on a OSX?

[quote user="dpm]I was once accused by a professor of designing and coding someone else's project --- a very attractive girl --- in exchange for sex. I laughed and replied "I wish!"[/quote]
Huh, that's not too uncommon.
I - and that's more than 20 years ago now - did the physics homework for one girl in school. Basically a few vectors (or rather representations thereof... whatever) adding up to a resulting force drwan in the 5 minutes before the lesson.
She was beautiful, I knew how do do it. She got an A, I received a 'C'. Not even a 'Thank you'.
Oh well, of course I also received remarks from my friends...
Oh well well, those were the days...

cheating student:

Durka Durka mohammad jihad! $150 plz.

The guy offering money was from Spain

Well, the real WTF here is: You can get a job without any actual knowledge, as seen from many articles here. You can pass college without having to put much effort into it, besides “obtaining” your homework assignments. So why do we actually study all this? Clearly, studying is a sub-optimal solution to getting a job.

notJoeKing:

Part of working my way through school involved tutoring. The college I went to would, at your request, put your name down as an available tutor for any class you got an A in so my name was down for most of the classes I took there, not just CS. At a tech college that only had CS, IT, and EE degrees... and all of them needed to take atleast intro to C++... there were far more IT and EE people calling me up all the time (up to a year after I graduated) asking me if they could pay me to complete homework assignments.

How they expected that would help them pass tests in the class, I'll never know.

Can't believe you were around EE's and didn't figure this out. A majority of 1st year EEs (the ones taking intro to C++) are there because of the starting salary. In 1997, from my school, the average starting salary was 45-47k for EEs (we were in the midwest). I took a junior level and senior level EE class that both had less than 15 students in them. By that time, many of the salary hopeful had switched to something easy like Civil Engineering.

the real WTF is that bournemouth have a cs dept at all. I thought it was just one of those seaside colleges for language students who want to make it big in the catering world ;-)

tbcpp:

I'm hoping that this prof was trying to teach something other than data queues to his students. If he's teaching OpenGL then yeah, this would be a great beginner assignment, otherwise, it's overkill. Off the top of my head, in order to correctly full fill the assignment the students would have to understand a windowing toolkit (GLUT or WGL or similar), matrices, vertices, projections, view vs model rotation/translation, etc.

It looks to me like it's more of an openGL assignment; to make a graphical simulation of stacks and queues with a reset (clear) operation. It's surprising how few people manage to figure that out. More people here would rather post something like, "That's a stupid assignment; teaches nothing about stacks and queues. I'm waaay smarter than that professor. Here's why:..."

<snore>

floatnsink:

Wait a minute. The professor assigned half to code with HTML or whatever, and the other half to use DirectX but the program for DirectX is suppose to be ran on a OSX?

No, running on Mac OS X was not part of the spec. It was confirmed all too late that she didn't understand what DirectX was... ironically it seems she's now joined a "Virtual Reality Systems Lab" at another uni.

I'm laughing here because I've had to ask Rob Bateman for help in my professional career before - he works in the same narrow field of graphics that I did, and is in fact a premier authority on that field.

But I'm proud that I never asked him to do my work for me ;) more of "why the hell doesn't this work?" To his credit, he's always been nice and patient when explaining that "yes, this should work, but no, it doesn't, try this way instead"

The real WTF is that these students who think they can benefit by paying others to do their homework aren't studying Business.