Comment On The Last Straw

In the beginning, The Founder had a vision. He hired Manoj P. to develop a shiny brand new system that would embody The Founder's vision. He would have the freedom to design and build it any way he wanted. He could choose his own languages, tools and methodologies. The Founder laid out his vision and Manoj started typing. Thus was born Team WTF at what would become WTF-Inc. [expand full text]
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Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:36 • by Warren (unregistered)
Don't go, Snoofle. Where will we get all our best WTFs now?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:40 • by snoofle
414593 in reply to 414592
@warren: from the government agency where I got the new job?

seriously folks, if you see a wtf, don't be an apathetic bystander; write it up and send it in!

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:41 • by Y (unregistered)
And thusly did TheDailyWTF jump the shark.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:49 • by Y (unregistered)
snoofle, one post about how awesome you are was more than enough. Two in three months is just stroking your, er, ego.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:50 • by Tessellated Cheese
This is a sad, sad day for The Daily WTF, so I will wear black to mourn the loss of WTFs from WTF-Inc.

I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 06:56 • by dfcowell
I hate to say the entire community at TDWTF told you so... but... they told you so.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:18 • by Strolskon
> JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that
> will keep things coherent, right?



That's exactly what someone did to my open source project after I gave him commit access :(

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:19 • by gnasher729 (unregistered)
414600 in reply to 414596
Tessellated Cheese:
I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.


In a government job, the work done may be WTF, but there is the question what the job itself is like. If what you produce is horrible but your colleagues are nice and your boss is happy with your work and so on, so what?

In the old place, he was clearly set up for failure. It was absolutely clear from the start who would be getting the blame when the project fails (not _if_ it fails, because it was set up so nobody could possibly succeed).

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:22 • by ANON (unregistered)
This story makes me assume two things:

1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.
2. This company wasn't mainly a software company, just developed some software for their own use and website.

Just curious are these assumptions right?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:29 • by snoofle
414602 in reply to 414601
ANON:
This story makes me assume two things:

1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.
2. This company wasn't mainly a software company, just developed some software for their own use and website.

Just curious are these assumptions right?
Close; Manoj IS Indian, but he works on site. (2) - bingo!

The problem is the management doesn't realize that this is mostly a software shop. And never will. WTF-Inc will crash and burn within 6 months, and MegaCorp, upon investigation, will clean house and start over.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:33 • by snoofle
414604 in reply to 414597
dfcowell:
I hate to say the entire community at TDWTF told you so... but... they told you so.
And you were all absolutely right. I guess I had to prove to myself that walking away WAS the correct thing to do (in the past). Clearly, it was.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:33 • by Hpesoj (unregistered)
414605 in reply to 414601
ANON:
This story makes me assume two things:
1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.


Surely it's a pseudonym? Looks like a name spelt backwards to me.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:34 • by Joseph (unregistered)
414606 in reply to 414602
[quote user="snoofle"][quote user="ANON"]Close; Manoj IS Indian, but he works on site.[/quote]

Fair enough :)

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:36 • by barabas (unregistered)
Come on, don't feed his ego by posting more of snoofle's figments of his rich imagination...

Anyone still not seeing trough his bullshit is way too gullible.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 07:54 • by Herwig (unregistered)
414608 in reply to 414593
snoofle:
@warren: from the government agency where I got the new job?

seriously folks, if you see a wtf, don't be an apathetic bystander; write it up and send it in!

How? FTP? ...or may I just relocate my company's repository? Your mail server will not relay mails with that size and number of WTF's

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:01 • by Chronomium (unregistered)
Enter Snoofle.
Please change to "the legendary Snoofle", please and thank you.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:08 • by Peter (unregistered)
"...it was the management that was the problem!"

Only rarely is this not the case.


// captcha: facilisis

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:19 • by Steve The Cynic
The Legendary SNOOFLE:
It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid". You can fix "ignorant" if it isn't hampered by "willfully" (but "willfully ignorant" is a kind of "stupid" rather than a kind of "ignorant", so of course it can't be fixed), by the simple expedient of education of one sort or another.

However, the best education system in the world (either in-company or nation-wide) can't make stupid people smart. A bad education system can make sure that ignorant (in the neutral sense of not knowing much) smart people become ignorant (in the pejorative sense of grotesquely misinformed) smart people.

The willfully ignorant, like your (soon to be) previous employer's senior management (and the misfortunate Manoj), will remain willfully ignorant, and the act of sending the most junior member of the team to receive the knowledge transfer tells me everything I need to know about their stupidity.

And if I did need to know more, the conversation with B+1 and B+2 would suffice to finish the job.

Sigh. Stupidity does seem to be infectious. Stay smart.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:33 • by ubersoldat
So, your post in the forum from yesterday was to fill up your position? Aha! US$ 70k wouldn't even put me on the door step of WTF-Inc as your replacement.

Anyway, it might make sense to try to take on WTF-Inc business and clients.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:38 • by zerzerzedfsfqsazerzerazeraazer (unregistered)
414614 in reply to 414602
snoofle:

The problem is the management doesn't realize that this is mostly a software shop. And never will. WTF-Inc will crash and burn within 6 months, and MegaCorp, upon investigation, will clean house and start over.


Out of curiositiy: where is MegaCorp in all this? Are they aware of this and/or what is their opionion about the 'stupid'

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:48 • by JayGee (unregistered)
414615 in reply to 414596
Tessellated Cheese:
This is a sad, sad day for The Daily WTF, so I will wear black to mourn the loss of WTFs from WTF-Inc.

I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.


The real question is, will snoofle be a contractor or government employee. If you're a contractor, enjoy playing the blame game, where government employees are allowed to point the blame at you, but you aren't allowed to point back.

Not to mention contractors get treated like a second class citizen.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:50 • by mikeTheLiar
Soofle: how long before you can name and shame? Is there a clause in your contract that says "You shall not post non-anonymized tales of the Company's failed management techniques, or lack thereof, until such a time as your employment has been terminated for a minimum of " + years + " years"?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 08:58 • by cyborg (unregistered)
414617 in reply to 414609
Chronomium:
Enter Snoofle.
Please change to "the legendary Snoofle", please and thank you.


Ladies and Gentlement please give it up for the Master of Disaster Recovery, the King of Spring(source), the Count of Monte Unit Testo, the Debugging Destroyer...

Snooooooflleeeeeee!

/crowd goes wild

snoofle later dies at the hands of a Russian hacker with a WPM that melts keyboards - it's simple, whatever he hacks, he destroys

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 09:02 • by snoofle
414618 in reply to 414616
@Where is Mega Corp in all this? Blissfully unaware

@Will I be an employee/contractor? Contractor

@How long before I can name names? > 1 year

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 09:31 • by Tim (unregistered)
Actually, you can fix stupid, but firing the people above you is rarely possible and stabbing people is illegal in most countries.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 09:36 • by C_K (unregistered)
That sounds better than the process here.

Gather requirements: 15 min verbal
Functional design: on the fly
Detailed design: you already did "design"
Developer ramp up: why aren't you typing yet?
Coding: You'd be done if you didn't waste time on design and research.
Developer testing: Just stop making mistakes.
QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.
Integration testing: Throw it live and see what happens.
Stress testing: Take an Excedrin.
Acceptance testing: Why is this @#$% broken?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 09:44 • by It's Pat (unregistered)
414621 in reply to 414618
snoofle:
@How long before I can name names? > 1 year


Or 6 months when the company goes down and he can link a news article. :)

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:17 • by Flash
414623 in reply to 414618
snoofle:
@How long before I can name names? > 1 year
How many of us have already created reminders in our calendars for 2014-08-08?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:20 • by Jeremy (unregistered)
Meh. Given the choice between the 2 I think I'd rather have "6 months out of school" guy over "30 year veteran" guy.

I'm sure there are some good ones that keep up, but in my experience those are more like to be the "set in their ways" "you kids and your damned 'functions' and 'loops'" guys.

They learned gotos and breaks, their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:21 • by zelmak
414625 in reply to 414620
C_K:
That sounds better than the process here.

Gather requirements: 15 min verbal
Functional design: on the fly
Detailed design: you already did "design"
Developer ramp up: why aren't you typing yet?
Coding: You'd be done if you didn't waste time on design and research.
Developer testing: Just stop making mistakes.
QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.
Integration testing: Throw it live and see what happens.
Stress testing: Take an Excedrin.
Acceptance testing: Why is this @#$% broken?


Honest-to-${deity} ... About two months into a (contracted) task, (about two weeks after the systems team received computers and desks to put them at), my boss was systems task lead doing all sorts of interviews and gathering information on what each section did, what their pain points were and what tools they needed, etc. We had a general meeting with all the contractor personnel. One of the company leads on the management team asked: "${myboss}, I understand your need to get and gather requirements, but why can't we just build something?"

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:22 • by snoofle
BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors, so there's no way I'm getting my clue bat in there; Mark is the new keeper of the bat, so show him some love...

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:38 • by eViLegion
414627 in reply to 414624
Jeremy:
...their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.


Excellent.

now coding is a whopping 10% of the total effort

2013-08-08 10:46 • by English Man
Sounds about right...

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 10:47 • by name (unregistered)
414629 in reply to 414626
snoofle:
BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors, so there's no way I'm getting my clue bat in there; Mark is the new keeper of the bat, so show him some love...


Usually it's set up such that the green-network PCs can still access TDWTF; they just need to stay at least three feet away from the red-network PCs at all times.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:03 • by eViLegion
I thought clue bats were on the seriously endangered list.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:07 • by flabdablet
414631 in reply to 414626
snoofle:
BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors


Are the dunnies clean?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:08 • by locallunatic
414632 in reply to 414611
Steve The Cynic:
The Legendary SNOOFLE:
It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:18 • by D-Coder
414633 in reply to 414626
snoofle:
BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors...
Rorschach: None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:31 • by Old 30-year veteran (unregistered)
They would even teach us how to do Agile.
[Description of waterfall follows]

Been there. This is the quintessential hallmark of a WTF shop.
Naturally, after reviewing all the changes we've made, he wants to undo everything to put it back to the way he designed it.

I resisted and pushed it up to senior management...

FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

A few phone calls and a couple of interviews later, I have another job.

B+1: We need you
Me: I'll be happy to help transition for (n-days)
B+2: You CAN'T leave...
Me: ...
B+2: What about the delivery schedule?
Me: At this point, I can't help you, however I can ping my network to see if there's someone who is available
B+2: Eveyone is overloaded now, we assigned this work to you
Me: I understand
B+2: We already suspended all the non essential projects: everything that's left is top priority!
Me: Yeah, that's unfortunate.
B+2...

Remember, this is nothing personal; it is business. Offer them nothing and leave as professionally as you can. Remember, YOU ARE FIRING THEM. If the roles were reversed, they'd be a lot less accommodating to you. Be the bigger guy and let them down, but don't go all Stockholm Syndrome on them.

Argh. BBCode is the real WTF. Learn HTML or GTFO.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:44 • by DrPepper
414636 in reply to 414620
C_K:

QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.

Where I'm working, they're firing the outsourced testing organization that we were using; so the qa manager asked for 4 people inhouse to replace the team of 20 that were doing testing. He got 1/2 person. WTF.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:46 • by yeah (unregistered)
The changing POV (3rd to 1st) in this story is awkward to read

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:53 • by Popeye (unregistered)
The 20 week Sprint is awesome.
I'm a contractor and if I sat on my ass for 20 weeks to produce 2 weeks of product I'd be thrown out on my ass and run over by a bus.
You gotta love those G-jobs.
Great for a contractor and you can line up 3 at a time and triple bill the shit outta them.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:54 • by Matt Westwood
414639 in reply to 414632
locallunatic:
Steve The Cynic:
The Legendary SNOOFLE:
It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.


Hunt down and kill all the children, and make sure they never spawn again.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 11:58 • by Matt Westwood
414640 in reply to 414636
DrPepper:
C_K:

QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.

Where I'm working, they're firing the outsourced testing organization that we were using; so the qa manager asked for 4 people inhouse to replace the team of 20 that were doing testing. He got 1/2 person. WTF.


Where I work, they reduced their manpower count in the Test department by investing in automated test tools. They already had them, as it happens, they just got someone to tidy tem up and rationalise them and further automate the process. Seems to have been a success, but from where I sit I can see there's still considerable room for improvement.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:03 • by eViLegion
414641 in reply to 414636
"Half a person", or "1 or 2 people"?

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:08 • by Some Damn Yank
414642 in reply to 414599
Strolskon:
> JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that
> will keep things coherent, right?

That's exactly what someone did to my open source project after I gave him commit access :(

That's exactly why they have that "revert" command.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:09 • by Steve The Cynic
414643 in reply to 414632
locallunatic:
Steve The Cynic:
The Legendary SNOOFLE:
It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.

I'd argue that if you do this, you aren't *fixing* stupid, merely ridding yourself of it, which is a good place to start.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:11 • by DrPepper
414644 in reply to 414641
eViLegion:
"Half a person", or "1 or 2 people"?

One person, half-time. For those of you who are counting: We went from 1 local QA plus 20 off-site QA to 1.5 local QA. And they expect the same amount of testing to get done.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:14 • by DrPepper
414645 in reply to 414634
Old 30-year veteran:

FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

If you're a WTF programmer, that works -- charge them money to do it wrong, then charge them money to do it right. But some of us have higher standards -- we feel bad when we do it wrong. We'd rather leave than continue to do it wrong.

Re: The Last Straw

2013-08-08 12:16 • by Morgie (unregistered)
414646 in reply to 414625
zelmak:
One of the company leads on the management team asked: "${myboss}, I understand your need to get and gather requirements, but why can't we just build something?"


And so "agile development" was born? You'll have a deliverable at the end of the sprint and the customer will tell you that's not what they want. This feeds in to your requirements document as "customer doesn't want X". Eventually you will have narrowed it down to the one thing that they do want. Much quicker than that pesky requirements analysis.
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