$50 Cash Fast

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  • cryptic 2008-11-11 08:01
    First
  • rd 2008-11-11 08:03
    Sorry, First is not a multiple of Twentieth.
  • Pidgeot 2008-11-11 08:05
    Clearly, that PBX thing works For Great Justice. We may have to move 'ZIG' before it'll accept it.
  • ParkinT 2008-11-11 08:05
    The "Fast Cash" is not such a problem.
    I propose the ATM gives me 3 $20 and I will shove a $10 back into the slot!!
  • ParkinT 2008-11-11 08:11
    The children in Hong Kong are testing Microsoft's newest innovation: The Walking Tactile Foundation Graphical User interface for YoungSters.
  • Tim 2008-11-11 08:11
    Not many actual WTFs.

    The cash machine is obviously out of $10 notes. Maybe they should have hidden the fast cash option or changed it to $40, but they were probably too lazy.

    And the captcha isn't that hard to read (EF8VTZ4X). There are loads more impossible ones (http://www.johnmwillis.com/other/top-10-worst-captchas/)

    Even the rapidshare cats are harder.
  • Alan 2008-11-11 08:12
    Someone presumably didnt bother checking if there were any 10 dollar notes left in the machine.

    Not a huge WTF tho.
  • Gooey Designer 2008-11-11 08:13
    See, that ATM proves a fundamental of interface design. Whenever you find yourself coding an error message, STOP. The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. That's why we can't have keyboards.

    Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!
  • anon 2008-11-11 08:31
    Tim:
    Even the rapidshare cats are harder.

    The rapidshare cats are dead. Not so hard, were they?
  • Claxon 2008-11-11 08:33
    ParkinT:
    The children in Hong Kong are testing Microsoft's newest innovation: The Walking Tactile Foundation Graphical User interface for YoungSters.


    Is that made in Visual Basic?
  • Smash King 2008-11-11 08:34
    That ATM is wrong, $50 is a multiple of 20... it's just not an integer one.
    The machine should spit two-and-a-half notes.
  • me 2008-11-11 08:34
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.
  • Claxon 2008-11-11 08:41
    me:
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.


    But then how would you indicate that you have finished changing the value? That would need a 3rd button, with is just too much for us simple minded users!

    The machine should have no buttons and just spit out how much cash it thinks we want.
  • Vollhorst 2008-11-11 08:44
    me:
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.
    What would be fast about that? Perhaps they should rename it to "Not so quite fast 50$". Or "Fast no 50$". Or show some spam mails from Nigeria. Next point would be "Free Viagra".
  • yetihehe 2008-11-11 08:45
    me:
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.

    I think just typing 2 for $20 would be best. In some ATM I have to type 1000 to get $10.00, but it can't give me less than $10. Now this is TRWTF!
  • O...kay... 2008-11-11 08:47
    The dancing DOS prompt photo looks a bit off - the lines of the tiles that are being projected on don't line up with the other tiles.
    I thought it could be a lame background, but it goes over the task bar...

    Looks shopped to me!
  • jellomonkey 2008-11-11 08:50
    This doesn't even come close to the biggest interface design problem most ATMs have - inputing the change when making a withdrawl. Really, I can only get a multiple of 5, 10, or 20 dollars but I have to type in 2-0-0-0?

    Or my new favorite, ATMs which spit out deposit envelopes but have an empty envelope holder attached to them (which is clearly labled deposit evelopes)? How am I supposed to know which ATMs will prompt me in the middle of my transaction and which won't? My bank has both kinds and at some branches I just have to start the transaction and see what happens.

    It is sometimes amazing how little thought is put into systems, software, devices, etc. which are used every day.
  • TRWTF!! 2008-11-11 09:06
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
  • Ken 2008-11-11 09:07
    To the people saying the ATM is out of $10 notes: some ATMs do multiples of $10, some do multiples of $20. The ones near me that do multiples of $10 will tell you that they are out of that bill and to please choose a multiple of $20 if they are out, so I think this really is a WTF.

    That captcha is insane - I think the answer might be "lycos.com".
  • dave 2008-11-11 09:11
    There was an error adding my comment. Call 911
  • nobody 2008-11-11 09:15
    20th post!
  • JimM 2008-11-11 09:18
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
  • akatherder 2008-11-11 09:20
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a fundamental of interface design. Whenever you find yourself coding an error message, STOP. The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. That's why we can't have keyboards.


    What if you always get the $50 fast cash? All of a sudden your favorite option magically disappears with no explanation whatsoever. Let the user make their selection and them give them the option of going up $10 to $60 or down to $40.

    jellomonkey:
    This doesn't even come close to the biggest interface design problem most ATMs have - inputing the change when making a withdrawl. Really, I can only get a multiple of 5, 10, or 20 dollars but I have to type in 2-0-0-0?


    I don't know why they started doing that, but it's impossible to switch over now. How many people are going to pay attention that they are withdrawing $2,000.00 when then they type 2-0-0-0 instead of the $20.00 they would expect since they typed the same thing they have been typing their entire life.

    For what it's worth, I have NEVER seen any ATM around here that dispensed anything but twenties. It's been at least 15 years since I've even seen a ten dollar bill pop out of an ATM.
  • tuffy 2008-11-11 09:20
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.

    Lots of ATMs are swipe first, then transaction; they don't hold your card for the duration. This must be one of them.
  • St Mary's Hospital for the Uncurable Damned 2008-11-11 09:23
    Did anyone note the letters on the ATM keypad? I always thought the "1" button had the letters A, B and C.

    You're screwed when your mnemonic rhyme is a European one.
  • St Mary's Hospital for the Uncurable Damned 2008-11-11 09:25
    I only know ATMs that hold your card during the transaction. Then you get first the card, then the money.

    I think this is safer in the face of would-be card robbers: You get your card at the same time when you are prepared to take the money in your hands.
  • Claxon 2008-11-11 09:27
    I've never seen an ATM where you have to type in 2000 for 20.00. Is this just an American thing or a British thing to not have it (fortunately here you're normally limited to £300 max withdrawl from a machine in a day, so typing 2000 won't land you with a briefcase full of notes)?
  • Code Dependent 2008-11-11 09:29
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
  • heltoupee 2008-11-11 09:30
    The closest ATM to my house that I can use without paying for the privilege has, on numerous occasions, claimed that transactions need to be in multiples of $20 only to spit out my entire withdrawal in $10 bills. I swear at that damned machine every single time.
  • Code Dependent 2008-11-11 09:30
    jellomonkey:
    This doesn't even come close to the biggest interface design problem most ATMs have - inputing the change when making a withdrawl.

    Withdrawl: how people in Texas talk.
  • jasper 2008-11-11 09:33
    O...kay...:
    The dancing DOS prompt photo looks a bit off - the lines of the tiles that are being projected on don't line up with the other tiles.
    I thought it could be a lame background, but it goes over the task bar...

    Looks shopped to me!


    I've seen one of these in my local mall. There's a projection from the ceiling onto a screen on the floor. The floor screen is made to be durable enough to get stomped all over a lot; that's why you see tiles with lines that don't match. Usually the projection has things that move in response to shadows over it, so the kids can move like they're kicking the balls they see and the balls will move like they've been kicked. This doesn't look shopped to me!
  • i 2008-11-11 09:34
    Gooey Designer:

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.


    good luck coding that in COBOL

    actually I don't know anything about pictures and COBOL, and I really don't want to.
  • JimM 2008-11-11 09:37
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
    Except the ATMs here eject your card and won't dispense your money until you've taken it - so that's hardly an issue. The one thing I've learned from TDWTF is not to make a pronouncement on someone else's (ATM|Elevator(that's LIFT, btw)|Preferred programming language) unless you've used it yourself and know how it works - you just sound dumb through trying to be clever...
  • ...toddy 2008-11-11 09:43
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.


    He must be into card theft and is going through and clearing out a whole pile of cards... the card in his hand is next.
  • ricecake 2008-11-11 09:46
    St Mary's Hospital for the Uncurable Damned:
    Did anyone note the letters on the ATM keypad? I always thought the "1" button had the letters A, B and C.

    The keypad matches the lettering system used on American phones. 2=ABC, 3=DEF, ... , 7=PRS, 8=TUV, 9=WXY. There is no 'Q' nor 'Z' due to infrequency of use, so they added them to the 1 button.
  • ...toddy 2008-11-11 09:51
    ricecake:
    St Mary's Hospital for the Uncurable Damned:
    Did anyone note the letters on the ATM keypad? I always thought the "1" button had the letters A, B and C.

    The keypad matches the lettering system used on American phones. 2=ABC, 3=DEF, ... , 7=PRS, 8=TUV, 9=WXY. There is no 'Q' nor 'Z' due to infrequency of use, so they added them to the 1 button.

    Not just USAican...
  • Mr G 2008-11-11 09:56
    O...kay...:
    The dancing DOS prompt photo looks a bit off - the lines of the tiles that are being projected on don't line up with the other tiles.
    I thought it could be a lame background, but it goes over the task bar...

    Looks shopped to me!
    All Asian children have naturally fuzzy pixelated heads these days, so I say it's not been shopped at all. :)
  • troels 2008-11-11 10:00
    This helps prevent automated signups.


    This helps prevent signups.


    There - Corrected it for you.
  • Code Dependent 2008-11-11 10:01
    JimM:
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
    Except the ATMs here eject your card and won't dispense your money until you've taken it - so that's hardly an issue. The one thing I've learned from TDWTF is not to make a pronouncement on someone else's (ATM|Elevator(that's LIFT, btw)|Preferred programming language) unless you've used it yourself and know how it works - you just sound dumb through trying to be clever...
    Your comments appear to be spoken in generalities but intended to refer to me. If so, I don't understand why. ATMs here work in a variety of different ways. The ATM in my office never takes the card at all; you swipe it through a scanner without letting go. Some of them hold onto the card until you ask for cash; some give it back immediately after verification. And there are still some old ones around that keep the card until you tell them to return it. I doubt that the situation is any different in other parts of the world.

    Did you take offense at my comment, imagining that it was in reference to non-Americans, or to you specifically? Like, ATM designers in the USA sat around in a meeting discussing the fact that foreigners will be visiting the USA, so they'd better make the ATMs idiot-proof? Talk about sounding dumb through trying to be clever...
  • snoofle 2008-11-11 10:04
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a fundamental of interface design. Whenever you find yourself coding an error message, STOP. The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. That's why we can't have keyboards.

    Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!
    Your fingers were all chopped off in a horrible accident and you have no way of pointing. Now what do you do?
  • snoofle 2008-11-11 10:07
    yetihehe:

    In some ATM I have to type 1000 to get $10.00, but it can't give me less than $10. Now this is TRWTF!

    That is a holdover from the early days of ATMs when they thought you would need to withdraw an exact amount, in cents, and then let you do it. We used to have the same problem, but with various coin sizes.
  • Karl von L. 2008-11-11 10:08
    Tim:

    And the captcha isn't that hard to read (EF8VTZ4X).


    If those are the only characters you saw in the image, you seriously need your eyes checked.
  • Mr G 2008-11-11 10:09
    snoofle:
    Your fingers were all chopped off in a horrible accident and you have no way of pointing. Now what do you do?
    Pffft, that's simple...just use the money from the settlement to hire someone to do the pointing for you.
  • snoofle 2008-11-11 10:10
    Claxon:
    I've never seen an ATM where you have to type in 2000 for 20.00. Is this just an American thing or a British thing to not have it (fortunately here you're normally limited to £300 max withdrawl from a machine in a day, so typing 2000 won't land you with a briefcase full of notes)?
    Same thing here in the US. My (3) banks limit to $200, $300 and $400 daily respectively.
  • captcha_this 2008-11-11 10:13
    I can read it clear as day. It says "lycos".
  • borandi 2008-11-11 10:13
    snoofle:
    Your fingers were all chopped off in a horrible accident and you have no way of pointing. Now what do you do?


    Bash your head on the screen.

    More to the point, how would you put the card in =D
  • Ilya Ehrenburg 2008-11-11 10:20
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    Code Dependent:
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
    Except the ATMs here eject your card and won't dispense your money until you've taken it - so that's hardly an issue. The one thing I've learned from TDWTF is not to make a pronouncement on someone else's (ATM|Elevator(that's LIFT, btw)|Preferred programming language) unless you've used it yourself and know how it works - you just sound dumb through trying to be clever...
    Your comments appear to be spoken in generalities but intended to refer to me. If so, I don't understand why. ATMs here work in a variety of different ways. The ATM in my office never takes the card at all; you swipe it through a scanner without letting go. Some of them hold onto the card until you ask for cash; some give it back immediately after verification. And there are still some old ones around that keep the card until you tell them to return it. I doubt that the situation is any different in other parts of the world.

    Did you take offense at my comment, imagining that it was in reference to non-Americans, or to you specifically? Like, ATM designers in the USA sat around in a meeting discussing the fact that foreigners will be visiting the USA, so they'd better make the ATMs idiot-proof? Talk about sounding dumb through trying to be clever...

    I don't think he was getting at you. I believe his recount of what he learned from TDWTF was a propos your idea the ATM coders had learned from it, with no special connection to the matter at hand. It may have been less than ideally worded, but what he learned is a good thing.
  • Yep 2008-11-11 10:20
    O...kay...:
    The dancing DOS prompt photo looks a bit off - the lines of the tiles that are being projected on don't line up with the other tiles.
    I thought it could be a lame background, but it goes over the task bar...

    Looks shopped to me!


    Yeah, those kids don't look real at all.
  • Thief^ 2008-11-11 10:24
    heltoupee:
    The closest ATM to my house that I can use without paying for the privilege has, on numerous occasions, claimed that transactions need to be in multiples of $20 only to spit out my entire withdrawal in $10 bills. I swear at that damned machine every single time.

    I asked a machine for £50 and got ten £5 notes once. I was expecting two £20 and one £10.
    It was in a university, so I can forgive it for assuming everyone is going to be too broke to be able to afford a £20 note.
  • Wolfraider 2008-11-11 10:25
    anon:
    Tim:
    Even the rapidshare cats are harder.

    The rapidshare cats are dead. Not so hard, were they?


    Cashew Kitty?
  • communist_goatboy 2008-11-11 10:27


    This is brilliant. It serves two purposes: it keeps out the stupid bots and it keeps out the stupid users.

    I propose that all TDWTF comment post CAPTCHAs now feature vector-calculus problems.
  • PIercy 2008-11-11 10:30
    speaking of the captcha test.. the new hotmail one is a pain... took me about 15 attempts.
  • MetalPig 2008-11-11 10:36
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!

    And some of them, after you take your receipt and walk away, ask: "Would you like to make another transaction?"
    If you're not careful, the next person could answer "Yes" and withdraw money from your account.

    (I saw this once or twice on my 2004 trip to the US. Fortunately, I walked back to the machine to take the receipt I had forgotten and noticed the question on the screen. I haven't seen it on the past 2 trips.)
  • TehMast0r 2008-11-11 10:37
    Actually, I know places where the number for the in-house helpdesk is 911 :)
  • codeman38 2008-11-11 10:37
    Tim:
    And the captcha isn't that hard to read (EF8VTZ4X). There are loads more impossible ones (http://www.johnmwillis.com/other/top-10-worst-captchas/)

    In which case, the instructions probably ought to say "only enter the code displayed in the largest font size" just for clarity's sake.
  • TehMast0r (again) 2008-11-11 10:38
    What do people actually think when you photograph young children that are not yours ~.~
  • Satanicpuppy 2008-11-11 10:40
    I've seen ATMs that throw the "Multiple of 20" error when they run out of 10 dollar bills; it's just that the GUI is hard coded, so it can't switch to "Press here for $40(or $60) fast cash."
  • Code Dependent 2008-11-11 10:47
    communist_goatboy:


    This is brilliant. It serves two purposes: it keeps out the stupid bots and it keeps out the stupid users.

    I propose that all TDWTF comment post CAPTCHAs now feature vector-calculus problems.
  • Mizchief 2008-11-11 10:59
    Anyone notice that the windows background on the Hong Kong pic looks a lot like the "your copy is pirated" black background?
  • JimM 2008-11-11 11:18
    Ilya Ehrenburg:
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    Code Dependent:
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
    Except the ATMs here eject your card and won't dispense your money until you've taken it - so that's hardly an issue. The one thing I've learned from TDWTF is not to make a pronouncement on someone else's (ATM|Elevator(that's LIFT, btw)|Preferred programming language) unless you've used it yourself and know how it works - you just sound dumb through trying to be clever...
    Your comments appear to be spoken in generalities but intended to refer to me. If so, I don't understand why. ATMs here work in a variety of different ways. The ATM in my office never takes the card at all; you swipe it through a scanner without letting go. Some of them hold onto the card until you ask for cash; some give it back immediately after verification. And there are still some old ones around that keep the card until you tell them to return it. I doubt that the situation is any different in other parts of the world.

    Did you take offense at my comment, imagining that it was in reference to non-Americans, or to you specifically? Like, ATM designers in the USA sat around in a meeting discussing the fact that foreigners will be visiting the USA, so they'd better make the ATMs idiot-proof? Talk about sounding dumb through trying to be clever...

    I don't think he was getting at you. I believe his recount of what he learned from TDWTF was a propos your idea the ATM coders had learned from it, with no special connection to the matter at hand. It may have been less than ideally worded, but what he learned is a good thing.
    Meh, a little from Column A...

    Truth be told, I read Code Dependent's comment as stating categorically that all cash machines outside the US accept the card, give out money then return the card. TBH I don't see any other way to read it. I said "Those machines are weird", they said "Well at least you can't walk off and leave your card in one". The obvious implication, and certainly my inference, is that Code Dependent believed that all other ATMs allowed you to take cash out and leave your card behind. That has since been clarified, but I stand by my original inference based on the evidence available at the time.

    As to comments being made in a general voicing but seemingly having a specific target, I think Code Dependent's "ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user" could quite easily be read as a generality aimed at a specific person (i.e. me, the person they were responding to). The simple fact is that if you couch a disparaging remark in a general voicing, you can plausibly deny intending any offense, whether you actually intended any or not. It's a favourite tactic of trolls and flamebaiters, and I can only assume that I've internalised it by spending too much time reading TDWTF ;^)

    Oh, and to clarify: I most certainly did not intend any direct offense to any individual with my comments.
  • rob 2008-11-11 11:20
    Once upon a time, only rest stop and convenience store ATMs were limited to multiples of $20. I used to work for a company that made ATMs that could handle any amount. They even had a little catch bucket for when it gave change. There was one installed where I worked. I always got $36.41. Just because I could.

    Every once in a while, I see one of those machines. They only have $20s and the change bucket sits empty.
  • JimM 2008-11-11 11:20
    Mizchief:
    Anyone notice that the windows background on the Hong Kong pic looks a lot like the "your copy is pirated" black background?
    No, I'm not that much of a geek (and, come to think of it, I don't know what 'the "your copy is pirated" black background' looks like, either. Really).
  • Cowbell 2008-11-11 11:23
    While every bank sets a default daily maximum, I have yet to do business with a bank that won't change that limit to whatever you want.

    Same thing goes for your check-card.
  • DPR 2008-11-11 11:39
    Awesome! Dance Dance Revolution for MS-DOS! BTW, what level is that? eXPert?
  • Vincent 2008-11-11 11:42
    I wonder what GTK theme Vivek is using.
  • Mike 2008-11-11 11:53
    PIercy:
    speaking of the captcha test.. the new hotmail one is a pain... took me about 15 attempts.


    TRWTF is hotmail
  • BlueCollarAstronaut 2008-11-11 12:51
    I think the people at 911 are starting to get upset with me. Of course, if they had just reset my password like I asked them the first time, I wouldn't have to keep calling them back.
  • Jay 2008-11-11 12:53
    ATMs must allow the user to enter cents when making a deposit. If they required entry of whole dollars only when making a withdrawal, a user could surely be forgiven for being confused, having to remember to enter cents on deposits but not to enter cents on withdrawals. Also, if a user entered cents when they are not required, a $20 withdrawal becomes $2000. There might be an upper limit, in which case you have to give an error message. If not, a user who wanted twenty bucks finds the machine apitting out a wad of money. The converse error is that the user wants $20 which the machine interprets as 20 cents. At worst it dispenses two dimes, he realizes his error, and asks for another $19.80. As no ATM I've ever used dispenses less than a $10 bill, he probably just gets an error message, realizes his error, and tries again.

    Yes, I'm all in favor of making it impossible to enter invalid data, but sometimes that's tricky. You could ask the user to type in the number of each denomination bill he wants, but people don't normally think that way, so that could get confusing too. A user who wants $40 might well type "40" next to the picture of the $20 bill, thinking he's going to get 2 twenties, and then instead he gets $800. Making invalid inputs impossible is a good thing, but not at the price of making inputs non-intuitive or clumsy.
  • Code Dependent 2008-11-11 13:29
    JimM:
    I think Code Dependent's "ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user" could quite easily be read as a generality aimed at a specific person (i.e. me, the person they were responding to). *snip*

    Oh, and to clarify: I most certainly did not intend any direct offense to any individual with my comments.
    I'm glad we got that ironed out. If anybody is indicated by my "stupidity" observation, in context it would be the targeted users of that ATM -- Americans (although I doubt that the manufacturers limit their sales to this one country).
  • csm 2008-11-11 13:31
    Tim:
    Not many actual WTFs.

    The cash machine is obviously out of $10 notes. Maybe they should have hidden the fast cash option or changed it to $40, but they were probably too lazy.

    And the captcha isn't that hard to read (EF8VTZ4X). There are loads more impossible ones (http://www.johnmwillis.com/other/top-10-worst-captchas/)

    Even the rapidshare cats are harder.


    That's funny, every ATM I've used in the US only gives out $20 bills. Usually the fast cash option is for $40 and if you manually enter any increment other than $20 you'll get the screen pictured. Sounds like a WTF to me.
  • Andy 2008-11-11 13:56

    I do AV work (for theatrical productions, not just the standard screen), so I know how to set up a projector properly, and how it will work.

    It's shopped. Look at the bottom right corner of the projection. The image leaks over whatever tiles it was originally projected on. This indicated two things:
    1. It's not a screen on the floor. Why make that tiny sliver of screen, when it should be unnecessary due to proper keystoning?
    2. It also shows (due to the improper keystoning) that the image was projected from about the area of the pillar behind the boy. But the shadows of the children make it look like the projector is much further to the right.

    Also, look at the floor. It's semi-shiny, as you get the glare from whatever windows are in the distance. You would get the same sort of effect with the projector, a big bright spot near the middle of the image.

    Shopped.
  • m0ffx 2008-11-11 14:03
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.

    (As has been said), UK ATM's hold your card while you choose what you want, then return the card, and only once you have taken it, then they dispense the money, followed by the receipt if requested.

    Also, if you leave either card or money sticking out of the ATM for long enough (eg if you're dumb enough to walk away leaving the cash!), the machine will pull it back in and reverse the transaction.
  • djigo 2008-11-11 14:08
    once i couldn't withdraw $50 because, apparently it was not a multiple of $50. too bad i didn't have my camera with me.
  • theNestruo 2008-11-11 14:22
    Here (Spain) some Visa cards offers seven Cash Fast options (like 40, 70, 110, 140, 170 and 210... I'll take a photo next time for this WTF-ish quantities). There is another option for other quantities. And, of couse, many many times you have to enter a multiple of 50.
  • flaquito 2008-11-11 14:30
    Andy:

    I do AV work (for theatrical productions, not just the standard screen), so I know how to set up a projector properly, and how it will work.

    It's shopped. Look at the bottom right corner of the projection. The image leaks over whatever tiles it was originally projected on. This indicated two things:
    1. It's not a screen on the floor. Why make that tiny sliver of screen, when it should be unnecessary due to proper keystoning?
    2. It also shows (due to the improper keystoning) that the image was projected from about the area of the pillar behind the boy. But the shadows of the children make it look like the projector is much further to the right.

    Also, look at the floor. It's semi-shiny, as you get the glare from whatever windows are in the distance. You would get the same sort of effect with the projector, a big bright spot near the middle of the image.

    Shopped.


    Also, based on the projector location derived from the keystoning, there should be a portion of the projection visible on the ankle of the woman at the left side of the picture.
  • DJ Beret 2008-11-11 14:37
    TRWTF is that Alex still thinks the command prompt and DOS are the same thing.
  • fmobus 2008-11-11 14:54
    MetalPig:

    If you're not careful, the next person could answer "Yes" and withdraw money from your account.


    In my country (Brazil), some ATMs do that, but they are reasonably safe. This prompt disappears quickly (+-5 seconds) and any further transaction would require card insertion before being enacted.
  • Paolo T. 2008-11-11 14:56
    Just to let all you know, no one of the captcha strings actually worked, so don't bother trying to find out the right one :-)
  • PensFan 2008-11-11 14:58
    I happen to live in Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh, which I promise is relevant, geez, be patient, this is the first sentance for f's sake, though admittedly, unnecessarily long. The WTF pictures regarding the MAC Machine (or ATM Machine for those with "RAS Syndrome") were immediately obvious to me. I even have the same orange PNC Bank card like the one in the photo and it matches as far as I can see, so I know this is a relatively recent photo, because the orange cards have only been around for a year or so.

    PNC Visa Check Card

    So here is what happened:

    Recently PNC Bank added a new feature to their ATMs that allows you to configure your own custom Fast Cash value. If you configure it, say, on one machine where you normally get $50 (the machine physically at my bank even lets me get down to $5 granularity) and then later hit another machine where it only dispenses $20s, you would get this error.

    This is really an end-user WTF instead of a programming WTF, though you could argue a better UI would detect it and round the fast cash value to the nearest dispensable value. The question is, was the end user aware they did it? In fact, they may have even seen the loophole and manufactured a WTF to submit.

    Now, regarding the theory put forth as obvious by several posters, that the machine is in fact out of Hamiltons (why not, we have Franklins, I'm just medium pimpin'). A little detective work and you notice the reflection in the screen. It appears to be bottles of possibly Snapple and those iced tea containers with the orange and yellow lids that come in milk containers (especially evident in the 2nd image), I want to say Turner's, but there are several brands around here. It would appear as if the machine is inside a convenience store. I happen to know for a fact that the only stores in this area that have PNC Bank machines are 7-11, which, from my experience only dispense $20s (likely harder to stock when they aren't physically located at a bank).

    Anyway, believe me if you want. I've got to get back to debugging this crappy code that someone else wrote. :)

    </peace>

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
    -- Douglas Adams
  • Shill 2008-11-11 16:02
    JimM:
    Ilya Ehrenburg:
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    Code Dependent:
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find. ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user--a concept they probably learned by reading TDWTF.
    Except the ATMs here eject your card and won't dispense your money until you've taken it - so that's hardly an issue. The one thing I've learned from TDWTF is not to make a pronouncement on someone else's (ATM|Elevator(that's LIFT, btw)|Preferred programming language) unless you've used it yourself and know how it works - you just sound dumb through trying to be clever...
    Your comments appear to be spoken in generalities but intended to refer to me. If so, I don't understand why. ATMs here work in a variety of different ways. The ATM in my office never takes the card at all; you swipe it through a scanner without letting go. Some of them hold onto the card until you ask for cash; some give it back immediately after verification. And there are still some old ones around that keep the card until you tell them to return it. I doubt that the situation is any different in other parts of the world.

    Did you take offense at my comment, imagining that it was in reference to non-Americans, or to you specifically? Like, ATM designers in the USA sat around in a meeting discussing the fact that foreigners will be visiting the USA, so they'd better make the ATMs idiot-proof? Talk about sounding dumb through trying to be clever...

    I don't think he was getting at you. I believe his recount of what he learned from TDWTF was a propos your idea the ATM coders had learned from it, with no special connection to the matter at hand. It may have been less than ideally worded, but what he learned is a good thing.
    Meh, a little from Column A...

    Truth be told, I read Code Dependent's comment as stating categorically that all cash machines outside the US accept the card, give out money then return the card. TBH I don't see any other way to read it. I said "Those machines are weird", they said "Well at least you can't walk off and leave your card in one". The obvious implication, and certainly my inference, is that Code Dependent believed that all other ATMs allowed you to take cash out and leave your card behind. That has since been clarified, but I stand by my original inference based on the evidence available at the time.

    As to comments being made in a general voicing but seemingly having a specific target, I think Code Dependent's "ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user" could quite easily be read as a generality aimed at a specific person (i.e. me, the person they were responding to). The simple fact is that if you couch a disparaging remark in a general voicing, you can plausibly deny intending any offense, whether you actually intended any or not. It's a favourite tactic of trolls and flamebaiters, and I can only assume that I've internalised it by spending too much time reading TDWTF ;^)

    Oh, and to clarify: I most certainly did not intend any direct offense to any individual with my comments.


    This is how the conversation looked to me:

    JM: Those ATMs do something funny.
    CD: Here's a perfectly good reason for doing it that way.
    JM: You must be implying that ATMs I am familiar with do not deal with that problem. I am insulted. You sound dumb.

    So tell me, how was CD supposed to inform about why the ATMs work the way they do without insulting you? He made no comment on other ATMs, he just explained why the ATMs work that way.
  • All-Beef Patty 2008-11-11 16:02
    snoofle:
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a fundamental of interface design. Whenever you find yourself coding an error message, STOP. The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. That's why we can't have keyboards.

    Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!
    Your fingers were all chopped off in a horrible accident and you have no way of pointing. Now what do you do?


    1. Use your nose.
    2. This is a problem that wouldn't exist with other ATM designs?
  • guana 2008-11-11 17:01
    Error: Amount requested was not a prime number!
    Error: Amount requested was not a complex power of e!
  • Eternal Density 2008-11-11 17:17
    The ATM I commonly use has the following issue:
    It will give any combination of 20s and 50s, which amounts to any multiple of $10 apart from $10 and $30.
    But if I don't enter .00 at the end of the amount I want to withdraw, it complains that I haven't entered cents. Why does it want me to tell it how many cents I want when it is incapable of dispensing cents? That makes no sense.
    ParkinT:
    The children in Hong Kong are testing Microsoft's newest innovation: The Walking Tactile Foundation Graphical User interface for YoungSters.
    I originally read that as 'tentacle fountain'
  • lolwtf 2008-11-11 17:24
    Sorry, the CAPTCHA was not a multiple of 20. Call 911.
  • rfsmit 2008-11-11 17:29
    O...kay...:
    Looks shopped to me!

    Agreed.

    See the right side of the near corner of the image overlaps the superimposed grid -- so that grid is not the edges of reflective tiles.

    The children are also not lit up opposite their shadows.

    When faking photos, remember shadows and lighting.
  • Zemm 2008-11-11 18:13
    Tim:
    Not many actual WTFs.

    The cash machine is obviously out of $10 notes.


    Or $50 notes. It's been many years since I've seen ATMs that dispense anything other than $20s and $50s. That ATM looks similar to the one I use often, plus I have a Visa Debit card too. :-)

    Fastcash $50 makes sense when it spits out a single note.

    And on the subject of entering "2000" vs "20" for $20, around here some do it one way and others do it the other. I think the deciding factor would be whether the machine accepts deposits or not.

  • Bob 2008-11-11 18:53
    communist_goatboy:


    This is brilliant. It serves two purposes: it keeps out the stupid bots and it keeps out the stupid users.

    I propose that all TDWTF comment post CAPTCHAs now feature vector-calculus problems.

    It allows you to refresh and get a different problem. I went to their site and the CAPTCHA question they gave me was an algebra question.
  • Bob 2008-11-11 19:03
    lolwtf:
    Sorry, the CAPTCHA was not a multiple of 20. Call 911.


    What? Yes it was. The answer to the calculus question is 0, which is evenly divisive by 20, giving the integer result 0, and is thus the zeroth multiple of 20.

    d/dx of -4*sin(7x-pi/2) is 196 cos (7x)

    Substitute for x=0 and you get 0

    You can check by graphing and seeing that the tangent line is horizontal.



  • Bob 2008-11-11 19:05
    Code Dependent:


    Sorry, x (which is 5 cm) is not a multiple of 20 cm.
  • PhysicsPHil 2008-11-11 19:24
    snoofle:
    Gooey Designer:
    See, that ATM proves a fundamental of interface design. Whenever you find yourself coding an error message, STOP. The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. That's why we can't have keyboards.

    Anyway, people hate to type, and reading is a pain too. Every professional knows, you need let people point at pictures.

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!
    Your fingers were all chopped off in a horrible accident and you have no way of pointing. Now what do you do?

    Use your nose.
  • PhysicsPhil 2008-11-11 19:24
    troels:
    This helps prevent automated signups.


    This helps prevent signups.


    There - Fixed it for you.

    FTFY
  • LaSepp 2008-11-11 19:29
    Oh, how much I like all those ATMs..

    My "favorite" ATM is the one in our shopping mall... You select "200€" - and it will give you one 200€ note... Yeah...

    Here in Germany many ATMs give you a fast cash option. But the values are always pre-defined by the bank. And the card is given back just before it gives you the money. Also you just have to enter the value, no cents.

    When I was on vacation in India, I encountered many different types of ATMs.
    My favorite there was the one where I put in my card, then the screen changed to the company's logo with some indian letters on it. It looked like a loading screen to me. But someone pointed out to me, the machine wanted me to remove my card...
    It also featured a "do you want to make another transaction?" question at the end of the process. And the input of 20000.00 to get the right amount...
    What I found quite interesting is the amazing amount of questions one machine could ask before it gave me money. For withdrawal it had me go into the third submenu - and then some yes/no questions ("would you like to have a reciept?", ...)

    I'm really happy about the simplicity of ATMs back here :-).
  • zzo38 2008-11-11 19:30
    me:

    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.
    No, is better if, after you type the password, the display says:

    == ACCOUNTS MENU ==
    DATE/TIME: _______
    SERVICE CHARGE: $0.00

    (1) CHEQUING ACCOUNT
    (2) SAVING ACCOUNT
    (CANCEL) EJECT

    and then after that it says:

    == WITHDRAWAL MENU ==
    DATE/TIME: _______
    ACCOUNT: _______
    SERVICE CHARGE: $0.00

    PUSH NUMBER OF HOW MANY $20 BILLS YOU WANT
    PUSH ZERO FOR PRINTOUT ONLY
    PUSH CORRECTION TO TRANSFER
    PUSH ENTER FOR DEPOSITS
    PUSH CANCEL TO SELECT A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT

    and then after that it goes back to the accounts menu.

    This way is simple and fast, and doesn't have a error like the other one does, so therefore, this way is better way, at least in my opinion.
  • Scarlet Manuka 2008-11-11 20:26
    Bob:
    d/dx of -4*sin(7x-pi/2) is 196 cos (7x)

    Substitute for x=0 and you get 0

    You fail at calculus. And at substitution; cos 0 = 1 so substituting x=0 in your result would get you 196.

    However, d/dx -4 sin (7x - pi/2) = -28 cos (7x - pi/2). Substituting x=0 here will get you -28 cos (-pi/2) which is indeed 0.
  • Mangle 2008-11-11 20:41
    zzo38:
    me:

    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.
    No, is better if, after you type the password, the display says:

    == ACCOUNTS MENU ==
    DATE/TIME: _______
    SERVICE CHARGE: $0.00

    (1) CHEQUING ACCOUNT
    (2) SAVING ACCOUNT
    (CANCEL) EJECT

    and then after that it says:

    == WITHDRAWAL MENU ==
    DATE/TIME: _______
    ACCOUNT: _______
    SERVICE CHARGE: $0.00

    PUSH NUMBER OF HOW MANY $20 BILLS YOU WANT
    PUSH ZERO FOR PRINTOUT ONLY
    PUSH CORRECTION TO TRANSFER
    PUSH ENTER FOR DEPOSITS
    PUSH CANCEL TO SELECT A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT

    and then after that it goes back to the accounts menu.

    This way is simple and fast, and doesn't have a error like the other one does, so therefore, this way is better way, at least in my opinion.


    When will people in IT (nay, the world in general), learn that creating solutions for Stupid People breeds Stupid People. Keep it Simple, and people will find it usable. Many systems will have some quirks, of course, but they are still usable....

    I hate (useless) questions especially when (as someone mentioned) there are several of them

    "Would you like to make another transaction?" (I'm not capabale of reinserting my card? I got it right the first time, didn't I?)
    "Would you like a receipt?" (Why not always give a receipt - people should always keep receipts of any transaction they make anyway {Though I suspect the greenies are at fault on this one})
    etc, etc....

    It's almost as though people cater to the exception, not the rule.

    From what most posters are saying, despite their (often petty) whinges, the ATM's they use work. They have seen odd behaviour, but haven't been fooled by quirks, or lost out because of unexpected behaviour.

    Where's the Problem? The problem is people like a lot of these posters WORK (or at least are employed) in IT. They have wonderful ideas about making things foolproof. There is little need (I hate to say this but) the fool in the world is the exception not the rule. Treating the general population like fools wilkl only train them to become fools too.

    </RANT>

    Oh, and get a life!!
  • AntiQuercus 2008-11-11 21:49
    I have seen many different types of ATMs, here in Australia.

    1. Card handling:
    * Machine ingests card, returns at end of transaction (before or after the cash is dispensed.)
    * Swipe card, then do transaction.

    2. Cash withdrawal Amount Entry
    * Enter other amount requires entry in cents. (2000 for $20)
    * Enter other amount requires entry in dollars (20 for $20)
    * And usually there are options for commonly requested amounts, selected by buttons on the side of the screen, or by a keypad integer representing a numbered menu option.

    3. Denominations. Here in Australia, I have only ever seen machines that dispense $50 or $20 notes, even though our currency includes $10 and $100 notes. If a machine runs out of one denomination, then it restricts withdrawals to multiples of the other.

    So, there are many atm behaviours out there. Some are better than others.

    The swipe a card style means you don't have to worry about the machine keeping your card, and the hassle for user and provider that entails - these are often used by third party atm providers, who set up atms in shops.

    The ingest-regurgitate machines allow banks to capture stolen cards. Lately there are atms that regurgitate their card _really_ slowly, which worries me that there is some John Connor style card reader just behind the slot.

    The thing that bugs me at the moment is that eftpos swipes at supermarket checkouts have changed sides! It used to be that every swipe was stripe on the left, but now there are new consoles with stripe on the right.

    As a courtesy to small retailers, I usually withdraw $60 (=3 x $20)when I want about $50 so that I don't hit them with $50 notes and take all their change, especially early in the morning. That means I always select "Other amount" which is why I see the different behaviours a lot.

    Here's a wtf: the parallax error in lining up the screen display of options with the hardware buttons around the screen. The alignment seems to work if you are 4'6'' tall. If I stand normally, the buttons line up half way between the displayed tags, so I'm not sure what the buttons will do. I usually have to stoop a bit to line the buttons and tags up correctly.

    I think the gui testing was done sitting down!

  • Math 2008-11-11 22:35
    Bob:
    lolwtf:
    Sorry, the CAPTCHA was not a multiple of 20. Call 911.


    What? Yes it was. The answer to the calculus question is 0, which is evenly divisive by 20, giving the integer result 0, and is thus the zeroth multiple of 20.

    d/dx of -4*sin(7x-pi/2) is 196 cos (7x)

    Substitute for x=0 and you get 0

    You can check by graphing and seeing that the tangent line is horizontal.


    You epic-fail at math.

    1) partial_d(-4 sin[7x - PI/2], x) = -28 cos[7x - PI/2]
    2) 196 cos(7x) | x = 0 = 196
    3) "evenly divisive"? Do you mean is an "integer multiple of"? or "perfectly divides"?
    4) Solving vector calculus using a graph (try it with four variables, I dare you)

    Sadly the value '0' is correct, although this is clearly no thanks to your ability at math.
  • Vijay the know-all see-all Manager 2008-11-11 22:43
    Everyone is a UI designer. Including support staff. And me.
  • james 2008-11-11 22:58
    me:
    Gooey Designer:
    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    Or just a [+] and a [-] button to adjust desired value.


    I suppose those keys could be reused for entering the PIN code too.
  • Zemm 2008-11-11 23:10
    AntiQuercus:

    The thing that bugs me at the moment is that eftpos swipes at supermarket checkouts have changed sides! It used to be that every swipe was stripe on the left, but now there are new consoles with stripe on the right.


    I always look inside the swipe thingy and find the read head and make the stripe on that side.
  • Kuba 2008-11-12 00:07
    Tim:
    Not many actual WTFs.

    The cash machine is obviously out of $10 notes. Maybe they should have hidden the fast cash option or changed it to $40, but they were probably too lazy.


    I bet this machine has not seen $10 notes in a long time. There are many ATMs where:
    1. $20 notes were unavailable for the last 4+ years (I personally know of a few).
    2. The fast cash choice took 2-4 years to change to a sensible value.

    If (2) ain't a WTF, then I don't know what is. Nevermind that the code should check whether fast cash value makes sense and either hide it or offer nearest smallest multiple of available bills as an altenative.

    Cheers, Kuba
  • Jeff Grigg 2008-11-12 00:10
    My experience with ATMs has been...

    Some have $20s and $10s. Requests must be a multiple of 10. Asking for $50 gives you two $20s and a $10. ...unless it's out of $20s, in which case you get $10s. This could really annoy me because I'd usually be asking for $200; when I got it in all $10s... Well, it was a "frowny face" day. :-(

    Later, they switched to $20s and $50s. But it's remarkably hard to buy lunch, and other such ordinary things with $50s. So the banks gave up on that, and settled on doing only $20s.

    I'm guessing that the "quick cash" $50 option was a relic of $10 and/or $50 bill options that never got fixed. So it makes "sense," but it's still a WTF. ;->
  • Kuba 2008-11-12 00:11
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!


    Some people forget their cards in the ATMs. There is no good reason why an ATM should "swallow" the card, so there is really no reason for it to hold on to it. I know that some ATMs will hold the card hostage upon multiple invalid PIN tries or if the card is somehow invalid. I consider it completely unnecessary. Some ATMs in the US have manual "swipe" readers where you swipe the card yourself. I find those to be the best choice -- simple, one less mechanical device to get jammed or malfunction, and the card never leaves my possession.

    Cheers, Kuba
  • Kuba 2008-11-12 00:18
    communist_goatboy:


    This is brilliant. It serves two purposes: it keeps out the stupid bots and it keeps out the stupid users.

    I propose that all TDWTF comment post CAPTCHAs now feature vector-calculus problems.


    There is one thing missing from that CAPTCHA: a link to maxima.sf.net. Yeah, I know people in civilized parts of the world should be able to do it while still in high school...
  • Jarvo 2008-11-12 01:24
    Actually, the machine might be out of $50 notes.

    ATMs in Australia only carry $20 and $50 notes (and NZ? Not sure about other countries).
  • boh 2008-11-12 03:51
    ricecake:

    The keypad matches the lettering system used on American phones. 2=ABC, 3=DEF, ... , 7=PRS, 8=TUV, 9=WXY. There is no 'Q' nor 'Z' due to infrequency of use, so they added them to the 1 button.


    Since the articles are always several hours old by the time I get to work (they are always posted in the middle of the night), I don't expect anyone to read this, but I'm curious: If neither the 1 or the 0 on american phones have any letters on them, how do you create those funny alphabetical phone numbers for numbers containing "1" or "0"?? Or do you not use them in your numbers, thereby reducing the free pool of numbers by 20%?
  • Rhialto 2008-11-12 04:48
    Jeff Grigg:
    My experience with ATMs has been...

    Later, they switched to $20s and $50s. But it's remarkably hard to buy lunch, and other such ordinary things with $50s. So the banks gave up on that, and settled on doing only $20s.
    The Real WTF is...
    that you USAnians don't trust banknotes over $20.

    The same problem is starting over here in Europe, to my great annoyance. We have banknotes of 5. 10. 20, 50, 100, 200 and 500 Euro, but many shops don't accept notes over 50 anymore. And apparently that is legal too, even though it's our official money (!!).

    I can understand shops not wanting to give change from 500 Euro if you have to pay only 20, but if I buy something worth 500 Euro I want to be able to pay with a 500 Euro note.
  • mithanon 2008-11-12 05:25
    it clearly says "fast cash $50", meaning that you must pay a $50 surcharge if you want your cash now rather than in 3 working days
  • JimM 2008-11-12 05:46
    Kuba:
    JimM:
    TRWTF!!:
    The Real WTF is the fact that the ATM is working when his card is clearly in his hand.
    That is the one thing that freaked me out most last time I visited the US - ATMs that make you take your card out again before you do anything. Wierd shit, dude!
    <snip>
    I know that some ATMs will hold the card hostage upon multiple invalid PIN tries or if the card is somehow invalid. I consider it completely unnecessary.
    <snip>
    Yes, it's so much better to allow someone who is attempting to use a card fraudulently to keep hold of it indefinitely...
  • JimM 2008-11-12 05:52
    Shill:
    This is how the conversation looked to me:

    JM: Those ATMs do something funny.
    CD: Here's a perfectly good reason for doing it that way.
    JM: You must be implying that ATMs I am familiar with do not deal with that problem. I am insulted. You sound dumb.

    So tell me, how was CD supposed to inform about why the ATMs work the way they do without insulting you? He made no comment on other ATMs, he just explained why the ATMs work that way.
    OK, a) did I ask you to butt into my conversation? and b) The conversation was more like:

    JM: I think those machines are weird!
    CD: They do it like that because of stupid people (inference: you didn't realise that so you must be stupid)
    .....

    It's not like I said it was a bad system or a WTF - I understood perfectly well why the ATMs work like that. I just think it's weird, because i have over 20 year's experience of using ATMs, in both the UK and in continental Europe, and prior to my trip to the US I'd never met one that worked like that. Hence, to me it is weird. As a system, there's obviously nothing wrong with it.
  • JimM 2008-11-12 05:54
    Code Dependent:
    JimM:
    I think Code Dependent's "ATMs here try to anticipate the stupidity of the user" could quite easily be read as a generality aimed at a specific person (i.e. me, the person they were responding to). *snip*

    Oh, and to clarify: I most certainly did not intend any direct offense to any individual with my comments.
    I'm glad we got that ironed out. If anybody is indicated by my "stupidity" observation, in context it would be the targeted users of that ATM -- Americans (although I doubt that the manufacturers limit their sales to this one country).
    Hang on - did we just get into an argument on a forum, have a reasoned debate, and then come to an agreement without an overly agressive flame war?

    ARRRGH! RUN! THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH!!!!!
  • Steve 2008-11-12 06:23
    Mizchief:
    Anyone notice that the windows background on the Hong Kong pic looks a lot like the "your copy is pirated" black background?

    Wouldn't know, I'm not stupid enough to install Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications.
  • DT 2008-11-12 06:30
    Steve:
    Mizchief:
    Anyone notice that the windows background on the Hong Kong pic looks a lot like the "your copy is pirated" black background?

    Wouldn't know, I'm not stupid enough to install Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications.

    Yeah, if they're gonna make that shit optional then I'm amazed that ANYONE has seen the "this copy is pirated" background. Just don't install WGA notifications and your copy of Windows will remain genuine... sort of...
  • amischiefr 2008-11-12 07:53
    Honestly, who "hasn't" wanted to dance on a dos prompt?
  • Mike K. 2008-11-12 07:54
    communist_goatboy:


    This is brilliant. It serves two purposes: it keeps out the stupid bots and it keeps out the stupid users.

    I propose that all TDWTF comment post CAPTCHAs now feature vector-calculus problems.


    Yes, it is brilliant in that it sums up the whole of this long thread of posts. "If you can solve this problem, you're smart and, therefore, good. If not, you're an idiot. Get lost."

    The argument that the ATM interface is not a WTF is astonishing. The assumptions seem to be, "If you can figure out what caused the problem, it's not a problem at all. In fact, it's the user's fault for being unable to see the obvious flaw in the algorithm."

    That's so like the stereotyped mentality of the engineer, which I have to fight in myself everyday. It makes me wonder, what would make it a WTF? If pressing the button somehow brought on the Apocalypse? It's funny, it's inexcusably frustrating for the user, and it either shows blatant laziness or stupidity on the part of the programmer, or it shows that little, if any testing was done on the system before releasing it.

    I say it's a WTF.

    And I'll take my flames off the air, thank you.
  • Buddy 2008-11-12 09:35
    Gooey Designer:
    ...The user interface should make it impossible for the user to make a mistake. ...

    So the ATM should have a picture of one $20 bill. No other choice is allowed, so no mistake is possible.

    Oh you want $100? Just repeat the $20 request 5 times. Simple. Easy to learn, easy to use, impossible to make an error!


    While I agree the UI should make it impossible to make mistakes, this design is not fool-proof.

    Besides having no way to confirm, it is possible to press $20 more times than intended. One potential consequence is this could bring the user's balance below a minimum so that he gets charged for withdrawals that month.
  • bolo 2008-11-12 10:56
    No alphabetical numbers here. Every single phone number I've had in Europe has had at least either a 1 or 0.
  • Jonathan Wilson 2008-11-12 10:59
    I have seen at least one ATM here in Australia that spits out hundreds. But it was at a major resort complex (hotel, casino, restaurants, bars, theater/showroom etc) near one of the entrances to the casino.
  • pscs 2008-11-12 11:15
    Code Dependent:
    That's so you don't take your money and walk off leaving your card in the slot for the next guy to find.


    Do you have to 'log out' when you've finished? What happens if you forget?

    Over here (in the UK), when you have your card back, you can't do anything else, so 'logging out' is a tactile process or retrieving your card, rather than an abstract procedure.

    When you ask for money, you get your card back, and the machine will wait until you've taken it, then you get your money, and then (if you asked for it) your receipt.

    I suppose the difference depends on whether you think someone is more likely to walk away without getting their card, or walk away without doing an abstract 'log out' procedure.
  • pscs 2008-11-12 11:27
    Jay:
    The converse error is that the user wants $20 which the machine interprets as 20 cents. At worst it dispenses two dimes, he realizes his error, and asks for another $19.80. As no ATM I've ever used dispenses less than a $10 bill, he probably just gets an error message, realizes his error, and tries again.


    Of course, unless the dollar devalues much further, they could easily set a limit of $1980 dollars to be withdrawn at any one time. Then, a simple test will be able to work out what the user wants. Ask the user how many dollars they want withdrawn (as happens with pounds/euros in Europe) and if they type '2000' it just gives them $20 anyway. The entry could show

    $___
    and when someone types in $2000 or more it changes to
    $__.__

  • Shill 2008-11-12 12:04
    JimM:
    Shill:
    This is how the conversation looked to me:

    JM: Those ATMs do something funny.
    CD: Here's a perfectly good reason for doing it that way.
    JM: You must be implying that ATMs I am familiar with do not deal with that problem. I am insulted. You sound dumb.

    So tell me, how was CD supposed to inform about why the ATMs work the way they do without insulting you? He made no comment on other ATMs, he just explained why the ATMs work that way.
    OK, a) did I ask you to butt into my conversation? and b) The conversation was more like:

    JM: I think those machines are weird!
    CD: They do it like that because of stupid people (inference: you didn't realise that so you must be stupid)
    .....

    It's not like I said it was a bad system or a WTF - I understood perfectly well why the ATMs work like that. I just think it's weird, because i have over 20 year's experience of using ATMs, in both the UK and in continental Europe, and prior to my trip to the US I'd never met one that worked like that. Hence, to me it is weird. As a system, there's obviously nothing wrong with it.


    a) If you want to have a private conversation, use private resources.
    b) There was no negative implications in the statement, you are just revealing your insecurities.
  • Someone You Know 2008-11-12 13:51
    boh:
    ricecake:

    The keypad matches the lettering system used on American phones. 2=ABC, 3=DEF, ... , 7=PRS, 8=TUV, 9=WXY. There is no 'Q' nor 'Z' due to infrequency of use, so they added them to the 1 button.


    Since the articles are always several hours old by the time I get to work (they are always posted in the middle of the night), I don't expect anyone to read this, but I'm curious: If neither the 1 or the 0 on american phones have any letters on them, how do you create those funny alphabetical phone numbers for numbers containing "1" or "0"?? Or do you not use them in your numbers, thereby reducing the free pool of numbers by 20%?


    Phone numbers with 1s or 0s in them do exist (mine has a 1 in it) but they are not usually represented as funny alphabetical phone numbers. Many funny alphabetical numbers are not entirely alphabetical, though; what matters is getting people to remember the number, not consistency.

    Also, once you have entered a valid phone number, any further digits you enter will have no effect; companies will often add extra useless digits onto the phone numbers in their advertisements so that the extra letters spell something useful. For example, a local radio station here calling itself "The Edge" has the phone number 644-9334, which they speak on the radio as 644-9EDGE. That last E or 3 won't do anything when you dial it, but it makes the number easier to remember.
  • guppy 2008-11-12 19:16
    Unless the user loses count, or gets impatient and clicks again and again, like they do for print jobs that won't print.
  • silverpie 2008-11-13 00:17
    As for the one about "injustice," I'm going to guess that the original programmer was francophone. The French adjective "juste" can mean either "just" in the sense of justice, or correct (with a connotation of precise).
  • realwtf 2008-11-13 04:52
    The real WTF is that you can see the credit card number in the reflection!

  • Prof AntiQuercus 2008-11-13 06:20
    It has the same flaw that all captchas have, and that is the challenge can be copied and fed to other human users who will solve it.

  • phreak 2008-11-13 09:06
    British phones never used to have letters on '1', but they had 'O' on '0' where it belongs. As I recall, we had to give up using letters when international dialling happened, because foreigners put letters in the wrong place (like 'O' on '6').
  • immibis 2008-11-13 23:34
    The WTF in the first one is that it's letting him withdraw cash, but he still has his bank card in his hand.
  • Random832 2008-11-14 11:08
    O...kay...:
    The dancing DOS prompt photo looks a bit off - the lines of the tiles that are being projected on don't line up with the other tiles.
    I thought it could be a lame background, but it goes over the task bar...

    Looks shopped to me!


    I got the impression that it's some sort of game that's normally supposed to be there, projected onto a specially made area of white tiles (since it wouldn't look as good on the tiles the rest of the floor is made of) that is, you know, actually present in the floor for the projector to point at. The game program has simply crashed

    St Mary's Hospital for the Uncurable Damned:
    Did anyone note the letters on the ATM keypad? I always thought the "1" button had the letters A, B and C.


    No, that's "2". "1" is normally blank, and Q and Z are traditionally absent (my own phone puts Q on 7 with PRS and Z on 9 with WXY, and punctuation on 1)

    The reason for this is that 1 cannot be used in some positions in phone numbers because it would interfere with long-distance dialing.

    rfsmit:
    O...kay...:
    Looks shopped to me!

    Agreed.

    See the right side of the near corner of the image overlaps the superimposed grid -- so that grid is not the edges of reflective tiles.


    Yeah, it's impossible to cut tiles to fit a defined area. Kind of sucks that my bathroom's width isn't an integer multiple of the size tiles they used so they had to leave a portion of the floor uncovered.

    The children are also not lit up opposite their shadows.


    I was actually going to say something about it being washed out, but guess what? You can see a portion of the column header line projected onto the girl's arm. There's also other light in appropriate places, though you can hardly be blamed for thinking it's light from sources other than the projector. The boy's shadow falls almost entirely on the black dos prompt window, so there's very little light being projected onto him.

    Why is it that every time there's one of these windows errors, someone insists the photo is faked? Are windows errors, or the use of windows in surprising places, that rare in real life?

    boh:
    If neither the 1 or the 0 on american phones have any letters on them, how do you create those funny alphabetical phone numbers for numbers containing "1" or "0"?? Or do you not use them in your numbers, thereby reducing the free pool of numbers by 20%?


    It's no worse in principle that case than trying to make one for a number that simply doesn't spell anything - and if there were letters on 1 or 0, there would be some words that can't be turned into phone numbers since you can't have a 1 or 0 in the first digit.
  • Random832 2008-11-14 11:12

    See the right side of the near corner of the image overlaps the superimposed grid -- so that grid is not the edges of reflective tiles.


    Misunderstood your complaint in my answer above - the white area is clearly surrounded by a metal strip (you can see a darker gray not matching the surrounding tiles the rest of the way around) which is only reflecting a lot of light at that spot because it's specular rather than diffusive.
  • moz 2008-11-14 12:38
    phreak:
    British phones never used to have letters on '1', but they had 'O' on '0' where it belongs. As I recall, we had to give up using letters when international dialling happened, because foreigners put letters in the wrong place (like 'O' on '6').

    And now we have mobile 'phones which are often used to write various things, but only use (for example) 8 out of 24 keys for letters.
  • eon 2008-11-14 14:05
    I figure my ATM makes you enter cents because for deposits they need to be available (your refund check is for $12.36), and nobody wants to bother coding an 'if action == withdraw' statement in there.

    And wow, I've never seen an ATM in NE, SE, or W of US that could spit out anything but twenties.

    off-topic: In California (SF peninsula) they think it's weird that in New England, there are drive-up ATMs.
  • videoproductionsupport 2008-11-16 00:09
    I don't know... I have a 'captcha' replacement on my forums ( at www.videoproductionsupport.com ) [along with a captcha that I should remove] that seems to stop machine registration [the captcha didn't]. It even accepts two different possible answers in case the user is confused!
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