Beneath Dave

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  • DaveK 2009-02-25 11:06
    And the real WTF is of course Norton. *spit*
  • helix 2009-02-25 11:09
    Please open this comment here:
    http://www.bigcorp.com/banksavings/employee_paybackscheme.exe
  • Ben 2009-02-25 11:32
    helix:
    Please open this comment here:
    http://www.bigcorp.com/banksavings/employee_paybackscheme.exe


    my Norton blocked.. sorry
  • moltonel 2009-02-25 11:33
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)
  • Bogdan Vladu 2009-02-25 11:34
    Ha ha ha - this is a very good example of how an untrained and full of himself person can ruin a company. :))
  • GCU Arbitrary 2009-02-25 11:35
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)


    He doesn't use antivirus, remember? Leaving Norton on the machines would be tantamount to admitting he's a clueless noob, and besides, he's only got a limited number of installation licences he can use...
  • bigtuna 2009-02-25 11:36
    I love when people say 'oh he/she has been doing it for X years, they know what they're doing.'

    Terrible assumption to make. People can skate by for many years being incompetent.
  • Anon 2009-02-25 11:36
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?
  • jo42 2009-02-25 11:38
    John should be happy that his VPN idea got shot down.

    Otherwise he too would be installing and uninstalling Norton (hork! pfht!!) on all his desktops and servers.
  • DaveK 2009-02-25 11:38
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?
    I just immediately the whole VPN... is this dangerous?
  • DaveK 2009-02-25 11:41
    GCU Arbitrary:
    Leaving Norton on the machines would be tantamount to admitting he's a clueless noob, and besides, he's only got a limited number of installation licences he can use...
    No, putting Norton on the machines in the first place was "tantamount to admitting he's a clueless noob". Removing it was an attempt to destroy the evidence of his cluelessness, so at least that made sense.
  • ATimson 2009-02-25 11:41
    jo42:
    John should be happy that his VPN idea got shot down.

    Otherwise he too would be installing and uninstalling Norton (hork! pfht!!) on all his desktops and servers.

    From John's reaction to Dave not having antivirus, it sounds like John's half of the network wouldn't be having a problem at all.
  • Deke 2009-02-25 11:43
    DaveK:
    And the real WTF is of course Norton. *spit*


    If he was excited about a 19" monitor, it's possible this was before Norton sucked.
  • Ozz 2009-02-25 11:45
    Ben:
    helix:
    Please open this comment here:
    http://www.bigcorp.com/banksavings/employee_paybackscheme.exe


    my Norton blocked.. sorry

    I call shenanigans - Norton never blocks any bad traffic.
  • MrsPost 2009-02-25 11:45
    This sounds like the perfect time to call the BSA because I bet you dollars to donuts (mmm..... donuts) that Dave was using the same copies of Norton on multiple machines.

    If you've ever read "Little Big Man" there's a part where the main character is out in the desert with an old prospector and things aren't going well at all. To paraphrase quite badly, just because you've been doing something a long time doesn't make you good at it. You can be terrible for a very long time.

    Dave on conference call sounds like an office game to me. Try to get him wound up and have a pool on how long he'll rant. If you can't change it, find a way to turn it to your own entertainment.
  • I escaped there 2009-02-25 11:48
    Epicor, is that you?
  • Wolfgang T. Frusengladje 2009-02-25 11:52
    DaveK:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?
    I just immediately the whole VPN... is this dangerous?

    Heh heh
  • Aaron 2009-02-25 12:04
    MrsPost:
    To paraphrase quite badly, just because you've been doing something a long time doesn't make you good at it.

    Some people get 20 years of experience, others get 1 year of experience 20 times.

    Experience is one indicator of competence but by no means the only one.
  • Steve 2009-02-25 12:04
    Dave's not here man.
  • idfk 2009-02-25 12:07
    "the better part of a half-decade"

    So, like, 3 years?
  • grep 2009-02-25 12:15
    I lived through the exact same situation - only with CVS.

    He would not budge. Said the code-versioning was not needed. He lost 1 month of work that would've been saved and STILL didn't implement it.
  • Evergreen 2009-02-25 12:20
    OMG... This is so true... When holyer than thou, fucking as wholes show up I just think of this... http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/itdepartment/6692/... Makes life all better course, it doesn't work always but most of the time I just start cracking up...
  • Niki 2009-02-25 12:21
    You can uninstall norton?
  • Bappi 2009-02-25 12:26
    Deke:
    DaveK:
    And the real WTF is of course Norton. *spit*


    If he was excited about a 19" monitor, it's possible this was before Norton sucked.

    Norton already sucked when 15" monitors were exciting.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-02-25 12:30
    I love dealing with idiots like this. These people usually know jack shit but are in a position of power because they're good friends with the owner/CEO (typically they are family but not always, such as in this case).

    This kind of person never does anything good for a company but would throw a tantrum that would make a 5-year old blush if they were ever overruled and/or let go like they should be.
  • YourNameHere 2009-02-25 12:32
    Sorry I don't have pithy, humorous comment but do want to point out that believe it or not, the new Norton doesn't suck! It is hard to believe because they really did gum up the works for 3 or 4 years.
  • General Failure 2009-02-25 12:34
    what made him "officially l33t" was his thirty-year friendship with the parent company's CEO.

    Just stop right there. Guaranteed WTF. Don't even have to read the rest of the post.
  • CaRL 2009-02-25 12:40
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.
  • jordanwb 2009-02-25 12:46
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M

    That's how you uninstall Norton
  • seantellis 2009-02-25 12:47
    This was immediately what to John?

    I thought it was immediately that the missing word was "obvious".
  • Satanicpuppy 2009-02-25 12:51
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)


    Well, it is Norton we're talking about here...That's things damn near a virus itself. I'd have just bought Norton Corporate though, and pushed out the install through the AD. Tell everyone to reboot, and then fix the few problem machines that are left while the rest run a full clean.

    Wasn't sure what "VPN" had to do with anything though, unless he was talking about links to servers that were located at corporate...I'd assume that they wouldn't be so wildly stupid to connect across the internet on a clear connection, depending only on an IP whitelist to save them.

    All in all it sounds like amateur hour.
  • DaveK 2009-02-25 12:53
    jordanwb:
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M

    That's how you uninstall Norton
    Hey! Stop that!
    It's *Norton's* job to destroy all your data!

    (Yes, you can uninstall it. But when you do so it generally splinters into millions of tiny shards that scatter shrapnel-like into your filing system, registry, service control manager and COM database, so you need to go and manually tidy up afterward).
  • BitFlipper 2009-02-25 13:06
    I do not know how John could have let it go after the CEO’s explanation. He was almost negligent in his responsibly to the Company. How can he leave the Company open to another attack or something worse? Maybe I fight too much. I would have not back down, just yet. Anyhow a great story.
    A similar story. As part of Corporate IT we did IT audits of operating companies. A co-worker found an open network. The companies CIO, Fred, would not admit it and acted just like Dave. We talked about introducing a virus and bring down the whole network. Our boss Larry, the corporate CIO, over heard us. He said if you can, put a text file on his desk top. Just say “Fred call Larry now!” The next thing we heard was Larry hired consultants to look at his network. Good guys one. Twenty year expert zero.
  • My Name 2009-02-25 13:12
    MrsPost:
    This sounds like the perfect time to call the BSA because I bet you dollars to donuts (mmm..... donuts) that Dave was using the same copies of Norton on multiple machines.


    I haven't read the licence, but I assume it's not wrong to install it on more than one computer if he uninstalls it first, so that only one copy is installed at any time
  • operagost 2009-02-25 13:16
    My Name:
    MrsPost:
    This sounds like the perfect time to call the BSA because I bet you dollars to donuts (mmm..... donuts) that Dave was using the same copies of Norton on multiple machines.


    I haven't read the licence, but I assume it's not wrong to install it on more than one computer if he uninstalls it first, so that only one copy is installed at any time

    Besides, the story claims that Dave bought every copy Best Buy had.
  • Franz Kafka 2009-02-25 13:17
    My Name:
    MrsPost:
    This sounds like the perfect time to call the BSA because I bet you dollars to donuts (mmm..... donuts) that Dave was using the same copies of Norton on multiple machines.


    I haven't read the licence, but I assume it's not wrong to install it on more than one computer if he uninstalls it first, so that only one copy is installed at any time


    That's what you get for assuming. The way most licenses are written, you're allowed to install on one machine only, with no provisions for much of anything else.
  • tourist.tam 2009-02-25 13:27
    Hopefully you can do a fresh install, instead of trying to get rid of that one (providing that you have been clever enough to have: 1. an OS-only partition; 2. a personalized install CD done before hand to NOT have to re-do all the regular software you are using.).

    And an anti-virus to check the email on the server? + restricting access to web sites?

    Tam
  • JamesQMurphy 2009-02-25 13:30
    Anon:
    This was immediately what to John?

    The missing word is gullible. It's not in the dictionary, either.
  • tulcod 2009-02-25 13:35
    TRWTF is that John actually felt lower because of Dave.
    ARWTF is that John now feels better than Dave, without *actually* having proposed a fix in advance. A VPN wouldn't have helped anything against a virus.
    ARWTF is that the servers apparently don't sit in a DMZ.

    CAPTCHA: praesent

    ps: ARWTF = another real wtf
  • Anon 2009-02-25 13:40
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.


    Makes sense.
  • Bernie 2009-02-25 13:45
    General Failure:
    what made him "officially l33t" was his thirty-year friendship with the parent company's CEO.

    Just stop right there. Guaranteed WTF. Don't even have to read the rest of the post.

    I could have stopped right after the first paragraph which ended with
    And best of all, the vending machine gave out drinks for $0.25.

    The cost of soda is something to get excited about if you're flipping burgers, not the new IT Manager/Network Admin/Webmaster.
  • brouski 2009-02-25 13:53
    GCU Arbitrary:
    He doesn't use antivirus, remember? Leaving Norton on the machines would be tantamount to admitting he's a clueless noob, and besides, he's only got a limited number of installation licences he can use...

    It's hard to argue that point...
  • SpiderX 2009-02-25 14:07
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.
  • Code Dependent 2009-02-25 14:08
    Though John had yet to earn the seniority, at least he no longer felt beneath Dave.
    Can't say I blame him. I wouldn't want to feel beneath Dave, either. No telling what you might find there.
  • pitchingchris 2009-02-25 14:30
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.


    nominate for the blue
  • Jenner 2009-02-25 14:32
    The ENTIRE conference call?
  • Sam Tyler 2009-02-25 14:32
    Most viruses are more benign than Norton.
  • Jenner 2009-02-25 14:33
    DaveK:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?
    I just immediately the whole VPN... is this dangerous?

    Yes, but immediately.
  • FlyY 2009-02-25 14:36
    Shame you don't know how many it has missed?
  • FlyY 2009-02-25 14:37
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.


    Shame you don't know how many it has missed!
  • SomeCoder 2009-02-25 14:47
    Bernie:
    General Failure:
    what made him "officially l33t" was his thirty-year friendship with the parent company's CEO.

    Just stop right there. Guaranteed WTF. Don't even have to read the rest of the post.

    I could have stopped right after the first paragraph which ended with
    And best of all, the vending machine gave out drinks for $0.25.

    The cost of soda is something to get excited about if you're flipping burgers, not the new IT Manager/Network Admin/Webmaster.


    I don't know... getting soda for cheaper is what I'd consider a perk. I get soda for free at my current job and it's pretty great. I've just been working out more to offset it :-P
  • BruceA 2009-02-25 15:12
    operagost:
    My Name:
    MrsPost:
    This sounds like the perfect time to call the BSA because I bet you dollars to donuts (mmm..... donuts) that Dave was using the same copies of Norton on multiple machines.


    I haven't read the licence, but I assume it's not wrong to install it on more than one computer if he uninstalls it first, so that only one copy is installed at any time

    Besides, the story claims that Dave bought every copy Best Buy had.


    Maybe they only had one copy.
  • please help that guy 2009-02-25 15:23
    http://www.geocities.com/jaskajokunen27/front
  • Otac0n 2009-02-25 15:24
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    Oh, man this deserves a blue!
  • grammernazee 2009-02-25 15:39
    SpiderX:
    ... Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.
    Virii?? What's that? Do your Latin declensions go to 11?
  • Moekandu 2009-02-25 15:42
    Anon:
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.


    Makes sense.


    No, no. The correct response is, "I see."
  • Patrick 2009-02-25 15:44
    And this is why we're in a recession...
  • Patrick 2009-02-25 15:46
    Herpes? Herpes! You have herpes...and gonorrhea? I don't need a condom.
  • Pim 2009-02-25 15:54
    Moekandu:
    Anon:
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.
    This was immediately what to John?
    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.
    Makes sense.
    No, no. The correct response is, "I see."
    But what if he, ehm, *** whoosh *** oh never mind.
  • n 2009-02-25 16:07
    Satanicpuppy:
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)


    [snip]

    Wasn't sure what "VPN" had to do with anything though, unless he was talking about links to servers that were located at corporate...I'd assume that they wouldn't be so wildly stupid to connect across the internet on a clear connection, depending only on an IP whitelist to save them.


    That seems to be what the point of the VPN discussion was about. The companies are linked over the net protected only by whitelists to limit access. As for how this is relevant to the second part of the story is hard to say, but it is probably a demonstration of what Dave is like and what Dave thinks of best practice.
  • TGV 2009-02-25 16:08
    grammernazee:
    SpiderX:
    ... Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.
    Virii?? What's that? Do your Latin declensions go to 11?

    I'm sure that if you look it up, you'll find it's the proper equivalent of vir-usus, which, as we all know, means a hero is an experience.
  • jordanwb 2009-02-25 16:24
    Otac0n:
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    Oh, man this deserves a blue!


    +1
  • aflag 2009-02-25 16:55
    The true wtf is not that he doesn't believe in antivirus, but that he was too incompentent to set up the systems in a way that virus aren't an issue.
  • KnobHead 2009-02-25 17:06
    Moekandu:
    Anon:
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.


    Makes sense.


    No, no. The correct response is, "I see."



    I see ly now, thanks for ing that up....
  • pink_fairy 2009-02-25 17:32
    idfk:
    "the better part of a half-decade"

    So, like, 3 years?
    Your measuring stick is faulty. I make it "three minutes."

    I think they were contiguous. Unfortunately, all three were preceded with a very nasty drug incident, involving Tony Blair, a bad haircut, and some sort of natural disaster involving carbohydrates; so I can't be sure.

    I'm sure I enjoyed that better part, but on the whole I'm glad I've blocked the memory out.
  • pink_fairy 2009-02-25 17:39
    DaveK:
    And the real WTF is of course Norton. *spit*
    I dunno. My ex made $5 million out of them; and I don't recall giving her any viruses.

    Mind you, I didn't give her anything useful, either. I guess it works both ways.
  • m0ffx 2009-02-25 17:43
    SomeCoder:
    I don't know... getting soda for cheaper is what I'd consider a perk. I get soda for free at my current job and it's pretty great. I've just been working out more to offset it :-P
    Yeah, I like cheap vending machines. 80p in my college, 60p in my dept, guess which I prefer?

    Otac0n:
    Oh, man this deserves a blue!


    No, to deserve a blue one needs to be good at sport.
  • tin 2009-02-25 18:11
    operagost:
    Besides, the story claims that Dave bought every copy Best Buy had.


    If that particular Best Buy was anything like the shop I work for, every copy of Norton would still only be one copy.


    BTW, the story sounds like the school I work for. The main regional support guy treats everyone else like they don't have a clue, yet does stupid things like pinging our router to test our internet speeds (despite the fact I did say it was only sites passing the state managed filter that were slow).
  • Real-modo 2009-02-25 18:30
    Moekandu:
    Anon:
    CaRL:
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?

    This was immediately clear to John. Because it's clear, AKA transparent, you can't see the word. But it's there.


    Makes sense.


    No, no. The correct response is, "I see."
    Thanks for ing that up for us.
  • Real-modo 2009-02-25 18:34
    Real-modo:
    Thanks for ing that up for us.
    Late and lame again...
  • Vlad Patryshev 2009-02-25 18:53
    The sad truth is that this happens everywhere, all the time, with all kinds of people.

    I had an intern at Google, a student from Singapore. He managed to make the Java Bigtable reader run 20 times faster (don't ask me how, it's a secret). The next step was to sell this solution to the people who wrote the original code, the great gurus. It never flew, of course. So one obscure application uses it, and he himself uses it when needed. That's it.

    Generally speaking, paradigms change with generations.
  • Eternal Density 2009-02-25 19:15
    Not even Paula Bean is beneath Dave.
  • Old Fart 2009-02-25 19:35
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?


    This was immediately Anon is a douchey douche douche *sound of a wet rag hitting concrete* douche to John.
  • lolwtf 2009-02-25 19:56
    Norton? He'd have been better off keeping the virus. Even if he did try to uninstall it afterward.

    Anyway, I call BS. No vending machine charges a mere 25 cents, at least not in the era of flatscreen monitors. Maybe before computers were invented.
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?
    It looks the author accidentally a few words out.
  • hatterson 2009-02-25 20:12
    aflag:
    The true wtf is not that he doesn't believe in antivirus, but that he was too incompentent to set up the systems in a way that virus aren't an issue.


    You mean unplugging them?
  • el_oscuro 2009-02-25 21:05
    jordanwb:
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M

    That's how you uninstall Norton


    Hey, this isn't Unix!

    In Windows, its:

    rd /s c:\*
  • Kraeloc 2009-02-25 21:11
    I recommend the excellent Norton Removal Tool, published by none other than Symantec themselves; almost an acknowledgment of guilt. It fully removes ALL traces of any Norton-branded product from your system. It's the real uninstaller; that one included with the program is just for show.
  • Kero Hazel 2009-02-25 21:11
    What impressed me the most about this story was the diplomatic way John managed to handle things. Maybe he got some tips from the manager who muted the initial call with Dave? ;)

    The positive appraisal of the company at the beginning was already setting things up for disaster, and I'm glad that the story didn't end with the poor guy losing his job or quitting in frustration. I wonder how well I would have handled it. I know plenty of people who would stubbornly keep butting heads with Dave, or exploit Dave's virus disaster for personal gain.

    Next time I face a "Dave" at a job I genuinely enjoy, I'll remember this story, keep my cool, and not let him spoil it for me.
  • DaveK 2009-02-25 21:18
    el_oscuro:
    jordanwb:
    Niki:
    You can uninstall norton?


    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M

    That's how you uninstall Norton


    Hey, this isn't Unix!

    In Windows, its:

    rd /s c:\*
    Yes you can! Look, I'll show you:


    See, it's running now, and in just a minute I'm going to
    *** Quits: ErrorFroz (~i4u2nv@192.139.219.40) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • DaveK 2009-02-25 21:26
    Kraeloc:
    I recommend the excellent Norton Removal Tool, published by none other than Symantec themselves; almost an acknowledgment of guilt. It fully removes ALL traces of any Norton-branded product from your system. It's the real uninstaller; that one included with the program is just for show.
    I fully recommend The excellent Norton Removal Tool.
  • David 2009-02-25 23:33
    Sounds alot like a guy I work with here. While all the developers sit on the same level both organisationally and literlly, he happens to be the regional managers brother and so elivates himself above all others.

    The best line he ever gave for his mightier then thou was

    "My MCP certificate (which expired 3 yrs ago) is far greater then your Bachelor of Computer Science"

    I simply replied with

    "great so while I was learning about OO programming you learnt how to format a word document"
  • Anti-virus is a scam 2009-02-26 02:55
    I also "don't believe in antivirus". Mail servers can have them, that's fine, but there's really no point in every desktop having it. Viruses should be contained by preventing PCs from talking directly to eachother (ie: network policy), not by having every command ever ask a bloated program "hey, can I just run something by you?" for every action it attempts.

    Some channels are harder to close: e-mail virus spams everyone in addressbook, etc. It's already gotten through the mail server's scanner, now what? In the end it all comes down to education.
  • bjolling 2009-02-26 03:31
    FlyY:
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.


    Shame you don't know how many it has missed!
    I always follow-up smartasses like SpiderX with: "What good is a virus if I don't notice ANY problems at all. No documents corrupted, no programs that stop working, no crashes, no annoying adds popping up, no outgoing connections that I didn't authorize,... What kind of virus do you think I could have without knowing about it?

    But last year, I got a heavy discount on Microsoft Live OneCare so I tried it out and these are the results of the jury:
    - Number of files scanned: every single one of them
    - Number of virusses found: 0, null, nothing, nada,...
    - Number of times getting shot in Quake when virus scanner decides to perform a FULL system scan: priceless :-(

    My company's laptop has Symantec and Windows Defender, my workstation at the client's office runs McAfee, my wife's desktop runs one of them free thingies... I've never ever seen a virus scanner detect a virus on a computer I was responsible for. It just eats CPU and costs money and that's it.

    Of course... I know what I'm doing.
  • Kempeth 2009-02-26 04:21
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?


    He probably did not have enough licenses to install it on all the pc's simultaneously...

    I friend of mine once supported a company with a similarly "secured" network. Despite his warnings nothing was changed and one fateful friday afternoon a customer plugged his stoneage notebook into the network. That notebook was possessed by more or less every bug of the last 10 years and some of them went straight for the exchange server. Now the beauty of it all is that the problem was only detected after the friday full backup, meaning that when my friend was called in to pull them out of the shit he had the pleasure of restoring the whole network from a week's worth of incremental backups... Despite a hefty bill (and I'm sure a good portion of cursing) they learned nothing from the incident-
  • Claxon 2009-02-26 04:49
    Ah virus scanners are such fun! My office used to use Trend Mirco for virus protection, until one unfortunate day when the antivirus server got infected with a virus, so the virus scanner actually started distributing the virus to every machine on the network (it didn't have definitions for the virus of course so couldn't clean it).

    After a month or more we moved to McAfee with the settings set to "OMFG Super Extreme Security: Turbo Edition". For about 6 months everyone noticed that the machines were running slower and slower. It would take at least half an hour for a dual core 3gb Ram system to boot and stabalize itself enough to load any programs. When a new technician came in, he noticed that all the machines were "passively scanning" each system's drives, including the 4 or 5 mapped network drives. Meaning there were about 200 machines, scanning the same shared files on the companies servers 24 hours a day... Now THAT's protection!!
  • bjolling 2009-02-26 04:59
    Claxon:
    <snip> When a new technician came in, he noticed that all the machines were "passively scanning" each system's drives, including the 4 or 5 mapped network drives. Meaning there were about 200 machines, scanning the same shared files on the companies servers 24 hours a day... Now THAT's protection!!
    I once had an issue when my McAfee detected a virus on a share of the companies file server and sent a virus report to our security guys. Their response was to immediately lock MY pc out of the network! Obviously...
  • Daaave 2009-02-26 05:09
    You're my wife now, Dave!
  • NameNotFoundException 2009-02-26 05:53
    bigtuna:
    I love when people say 'oh he/she has been doing it for X years, they know what they're doing.'

    Terrible assumption to make. People can skate by for many years being incompetent.


    Why? I have been driving for years without an airbag and without my seatbelts on, and I've never had an accident.
  • your_average_condescending_linux_geek 2009-02-26 06:08
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.


    I'm using linux on a box that's not connected to the internet.
    So no, I don't use an antivirus, and my box's never gotten a virus
  • Jay 2009-02-26 06:22
    I'm amazed that nobody pointed out yet, that he's talking about an VPN

    Including his idea for an VPN to secure transactions between his and the parent company


    Disclaimer: This post has been made while being completely aware of Muphry's Law and therefore admits there is bound to be some error in this post!
  • Adrian Coles - UK 2009-02-26 06:25
    If only this were a unique case.
    (Although it is extreme).

    I have worked at so many places where the people who have been there longer obviously know better than you.
    They are the WTF's, not the situation that ensues...
  • Jay 2009-02-26 06:25
    Irony is that there is in fact an error in the disclaimer part *cries*
  • SCB 2009-02-26 06:43
    your_average_condescending_linux_geek:
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.


    I'm using linux on a box that's not connected to the internet.
    So no, I don't use an antivirus, and my box's never gotten a virus


    But if you're not connected to the internet, how did you post that comment?
  • Anonymous 2009-02-26 06:43
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid statements. As you've so eloquently proven.
  • GalacticCowboy 2009-02-26 06:47
    Clearly TRWTF is "John Smith". C'mon, Alex, can't your name anonymizer come up with something more original?
  • m0ffx 2009-02-26 07:23
    bjolling:
    "What good is a virus if I don't notice ANY problems at all. No documents corrupted, no programs that stop working, no crashes, no annoying adds popping up, no outgoing connections that I didn't authorize,... What kind of virus do you think I could have without knowing about it?
    <snip>
    Of course... I know what I'm doing.


    One that's a time bomb ready to delete all your files on (insert date here). Rare but have been done.

    And the last bit is key. You know what you're doing. But if you were admin for an organisation with dozens of computers, and dozens of users, would you trust THEM to all know what they're doing? I'd have the machines running antivirus and antispyware (assuming I wasn't allowed to make them all Linux boxes). Even if the mail server and the web proxy are running scanners, the desktops should have them too - multiple layers of protection.
  • Anonymous 2009-02-26 07:36
    You could protect against the Japanese spammers (three posts above) by disallowing any message that exceeds a certain number of hyperlinks. These people are just trying to boost their Google page rank so the messages are stuffed full of hyperlinks. Any genuine comments are only going to contain a couple of hyperlinks max. So just disallow any message that exceeds maybe 10 hyperlinks.
  • Anon Ymous 2009-02-26 07:51
    O_o
  • prof. memals 2009-02-26 07:59
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.

    Except that the antivirus creates an equal double negative, if the machine running the AV has a new/odd virus that is not detected you assume you are protected.
  • KenW 2009-02-26 08:42
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)


    No. Once you've been infected with the virus and cleaned it with Norton, you can safely uninstall it and never worry about getting a virus again. Norton creates antibodies on your network as it sanitizes it, and it becomes immune to future viruses.

    It's kind of like when children get the mumps; they never have to worry about getting them again.
  • halcyon1234 2009-02-26 08:45
    Jay:
    Irony is that there is in fact an error in the disclaimer part *cries*


    Wouldn't it only be ironic if your post had been completely error free?
  • halcyon1234 2009-02-26 08:47
    GalacticCowboy:
    Clearly TRWTF is "John Smith". C'mon, Alex, can't your name anonymizer come up with something more original?


    Like Joey Joe-Joe Junior Shabadoo.
  • Code Dependent 2009-02-26 09:46
    GalacticCowboy:
    Clearly TRWTF is "John Smith". C'mon, Alex, can't your name anonymizer come up with something more original?
    Sure it can.
  • dpm 2009-02-26 10:13
    el_oscuro:
    jordanwb:
    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M
    Hey, this isn't Unix!

    In Windows, its:

    rd /s c:\*

    No, it's

    C:\> format C:

    Your "rd" command is equivalent to `rm -r -f /`, not Jordan's `dd`.
  • Ed 2009-02-26 13:49
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)

    Just wait 'till he tries to uninstall Norton.
  • Franz Kafka 2009-02-26 15:28
    dpm:
    el_oscuro:
    jordanwb:
    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M
    Hey, this isn't Unix!

    In Windows, its:

    rd /s c:\*

    No, it's

    C:\> format C:

    Your "rd" command is equivalent to `rm -r -f /`, not Jordan's `dd`.


    No, it's not available - you have to install additional software to properly nuke a hd (or just get a livecd and boot with that)
  • FlyY 2009-02-26 16:37
    NameNotFoundException:
    bigtuna:
    I love when people say 'oh he/she has been doing it for X years, they know what they're doing.'

    Terrible assumption to make. People can skate by for many years being incompetent.


    Why? I have been driving for years without an airbag and without my seatbelts on, and I've never had an accident.


    Skating and driving are two totally different things, and not to be confused: if you've had a glass too many, in which case the straight sixes you get from the judges might be years, rather than points.
  • FlyY 2009-02-26 16:39
    prof. memals:
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.

    Except that the antivirus creates an equal double negative, if the machine running the AV has a new/odd virus that is not detected you assume you are protected.

    Didn't I say that already?
  • AndyC 2009-02-26 17:07
    bjolling:
    I always follow-up smartasses like SpiderX with: "What good is a virus if I don't notice ANY problems at all. No documents corrupted, no programs that stop working, no crashes, no annoying adds popping up, no outgoing connections that I didn't authorize,... What kind of virus do you think I could have without knowing about it?


    Most of the better ones. The aim of a virus is to spread, if it is obvious you're infected immediately it reduces the chances of widespread dissemination.

    Doesn't mean it's not stealing credit card details and/or spamming from your machine, however.
  • Oscar Olim 2009-02-26 18:26
    bigtuna:
    I love when people say 'oh he/she has been doing it for X years, they know what they're doing.'

    Terrible assumption to make. People can skate by for many years being incompetent.


    Since people do shi* from the day they are born, i guess in this case it fits like a glove :p
  • moz 2009-02-26 20:24
    m0ffx:
    No, to deserve a blue one needs to be good at sport.

    Maybe, maybe not.
  • DaveK 2009-02-26 21:08
    dpm:
    el_oscuro:
    jordanwb:
    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M
    Hey, this isn't Unix!

    In Windows, its:

    rd /s c:\*

    No, it's

    C:\> format C:

    Your "rd" command is equivalent to `rm -r -f /`, not Jordan's `dd`.
    Absolutely. For those who remain in any doubt, this is what "rm -r -f /" looks like:



    And these are Jordan's DDs:



  • Eternal Density 2009-02-26 21:10
    Jay:
    I'm amazed that nobody pointed out yet, that he's talking about an VPN

    Including his idea for an VPN to secure transactions between his and the parent company


    Disclaimer: This post has been made while being completely aware of Muphry's Law and therefore admits there is bound to be some error in this post!
    I believe you meant, "I'm amazed that nobody yet pointed out..."
  • Quango 2009-02-27 04:17
    SpiderX:
    I always love it when people tell me that they don't use an antivirus, and they have never gotten a virus. I like to follow up with "how do you know you never had a virus, if you don't use an antivirus". Most virii don't tell you when you're infected. Anyway, I always use Eset's NOD, and it's caught all kinds of virii.


    Viruses. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_of_virus
  • Piercy 2009-02-27 04:56
    I am 19 years old, programming now. I started doing real-world tech work at about 16 (after years of dabbling). I cannot believe the ignorance of this guy. At 16 I had more intelligence than him and he is managing a 500 client network!

    Whether the guy is a good friend of the ceo or not.. it would be worth saying to the ceo you think things need reviewing. At least then your not claiming superiority but things would change for the good.

    Especially now that viruses can spread across different forms of media. Just think one infected USB key plugged in and a break out across the network.

  • Paula 2009-02-27 07:53
    Eternal Density:
    Not even Paula Bean is beneath Dave.

    Of course not, I have taste.
  • Wyrd 2009-02-27 09:56
    moltonel:
    Installing and then *uninstalling* the antivirus ? Those things are good enough for curing, but not for preventing ? Or it's known for a fact that nobody will ever receive a virus by mail again ?

    Amazing :)


    Weeeell... they'll probably never receive *that* virus again. You know, Dave probably set the mail servers to block it. Of course that will mean everything will be perfect and fine--that was the *last* virus they'll ever receive.

    Until, of course, they get the *next* last virus ever.

    --
    Furry cows moo and decompress.
  • Matthew 2009-02-27 12:32
    TRWTF is not Norton (though it is evil), but that Dave actually went to a Best Buy and bought every box rather than, you know, just licensing one copy for all the machines. I can just imagine someone coming to the checkout with a cart full of of a single piece of software.
  • Jay 2009-02-27 12:53
    Ever notice that the people who are really arrogant and bossy are usually the ones who are the least competent? The truly smart, capable people that I've worked with have all been quite humble. I'm trying to think of someone I've known who was always loudly bragging about what a genius he was or who insisted that everything must always be done his way and who turned out to really be a genius, and I can only think of one who even came close.

  • the other 2009-02-27 13:45
    Poor "technicains" !! (And I'm looking at you, Alex!)
  • bjolling 2009-02-27 15:33
    m0ffx:
    bjolling:
    "What good is a virus if I don't notice ANY problems at all. No documents corrupted, no programs that stop working, no crashes, no annoying adds popping up, no outgoing connections that I didn't authorize,... What kind of virus do you think I could have without knowing about it?
    <snip>
    Of course... I know what I'm doing.


    One that's a time bomb ready to delete all your files on (insert date here). Rare but have been done.
    I would probably restore from one of my weekly backups
  • bjolling 2009-02-27 15:37
    AndyC:
    bjolling:
    I always follow-up smartasses like SpiderX with: "What good is a virus if I don't notice ANY problems at all. No documents corrupted, no programs that stop working, no crashes, no annoying adds popping up, no outgoing connections that I didn't authorize,... What kind of virus do you think I could have without knowing about it?


    Most of the better ones. The aim of a virus is to spread, if it is obvious you're infected immediately it reduces the chances of widespread dissemination.

    Doesn't mean it's not stealing credit card details and/or spamming from your machine, however.
    It would never get past my firewall to sent this information to the outside world. I only allow outgoing connections on a case-by-case basis.
  • 3-D 2009-02-27 16:00
    Best anti-virus is a human brain that doesn't do stupid stuff, automatic execution of any untrusted media or files turned off, and a firewall at the front of the network. Viruses don't inform you they're on your machine, no. But you can tell when things are running slow, or you get a call from your ISP, etc.

    You can also find tools that don't require an install (and suck up system resources) to be run to check if you suspect a virus.

    Of course, I've had virus protected machines at customers manifest all said symptoms at a customer before, and found them to be completely infected.

    I don't use av on my machine, haven't in about 9 years, and haven't gotten infected in that time either. On customers I always install it since I expect average users to always be stupid, but I have no illusions of it stopping everything. Sooner or later, if the user's dumb about computers (which is highly likely), you're going to be doing a manual cleaning. AV or no AV.

    I just don't like sucking up resources on my own machine to run something that's trumped by a little free knowledge.
  • DaveK 2009-02-28 04:29
    3-D:
    Best anti-virus is a human brain that doesn't do stupid stuff
    *sigh*, yes, maybe so, but alas it turns out in practice that that solution does not scale to the whole human race. Hence the need for training wheels.
  • Some Jerk 2009-03-01 14:02
    Submitted for your approval, I would like to offer a new corporate policy for all you immensly experienced network admins and CIOs. Lets learn nothing new from this point forward, and erase all of our previous knowledge as well. Lets give everyone public IP addresses, and disable all firewalls. Lets encourage our employees to find freeware versions of software they need to do their jobs or perhaps even use bittorrent to download jacked copies. Lets rely on everybody's fear of me to protect our networks from those viruses and hacking... because everybody knows that I have 500 years of experience in networks and I'll just put the smack down on them.

    CAPTCHA: sagaciter (a yummy drink created by placing a soap opera star in a blendor for five minutes and mixing with apple?)
  • Yanman 2009-03-02 04:25
    Well...John didn't say anything to Dave yet, so Dave might still be full of himself, as he doesn't know John knows...
  • Mr B 2009-03-02 06:14
    Anon:
    This was immediately to John when he pitched Dave on setting up a VPN during a conference call.


    This was immediately what to John?


    The answer is obvious!
  • spinlock 2009-03-03 17:01
    Seriously, you'd that that after x/10 years they would have been promoted out of that job if they were at all competent.
  • galt 2009-03-04 04:39

    Ye olde saying: twenty years of experience is not the same as one year of experience twenty times over. If you fail to learn from experience, you're just a n00b with twenty years under their belt

    bigtuna:
    I love when people say 'oh he/she has been doing it for X years, they know what they're doing.'

    Terrible assumption to make. People can skate by for many years being incompetent.
  • Been There-Got Fired for being RIGHT! 2009-03-04 14:06
    Yep. Warned. Cajoled. Begged. And even Pleaded. All to no avail. When exactly what I predicted happened, I was summarily dismissed by the "Dave" at my old company, right before he got canned.

    John's lucky he didn't get fired--or worse, BLAMED and CHARGED with criminal mischief. That was what I was threatened with if I fought my dismissal.

    Nope, There's nothing like being criminally right.
  • Rich 2009-03-04 17:05
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    I love dealing with idiots like this. These people usually know jack shit but are in a position of power because they're good friends with the owner/CEO (typically they are family but not always, such as in this case).

    This kind of person never does anything good for a company but would throw a tantrum that would make a 5-year old blush if they were ever overruled and/or let go like they should be.
    I've had the curious and rare pleasure of seeing one of these ejected from the premises a few years ago. A coworker who was late into work saw him crying in his car a mile up the road.
  • Rich 2009-03-04 17:07
    DaveK:
    3-D:
    Best anti-virus is a human brain that doesn't do stupid stuff
    *sigh*, yes, maybe so, but alas it turns out in practice that that solution does not scale to the whole human race. Hence the need for training wheels.
    ...for everyone.

    There's a better way: don't employ idiots.
  • Gern 2009-03-30 01:22
    The Peter Principle in action...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle