Dying of Thirst

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  • by 2010-09-17 09:03
    This comment is greater than "0"
  • Alargule 2010-09-17 09:03
    "This is from a well-known financial planning site," wrote Matt Parkin, "I guess 1350 and 100 are not greater than 0? Maybe I should try negative numbers."


    Well, maybe you should use "quotation marks"?
  • meh 2010-09-17 09:04
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.
  • e.p. 2010-09-17 09:10
    Calvin:

    "Firefox crashed after that."


    How unfortunate that you had 'Do this automatically for files like this from now on.' checked, then.
  • appellatio 2010-09-17 09:10
    There is no way I would buy vinyl with the only description being "orange". What orange?
    This one?
    This one?
    This one?
    This one?
    This one?
    This one?
    This one?
  • Your Name 2010-09-17 09:11
    The blank Firefox one is how Windows handles "out of memory" errors. It's never seen on correctly programmed OSen such as GNU/Linux.

    Richard Stallman
  • GG 2010-09-17 09:11
    I think I have deleted my file G (which I'm kind of fond of) by mistake. Anyone got a link for a download?
  • frits 2010-09-17 09:12
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    No wonder all the kids are fat.
  • Liar Paradox 2010-09-17 09:13
    Error: This comment contains no text.
  • Europa 2010-09-17 09:13
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?

    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.

    You buy soda on credit? No wonder you people have screwed the global economy up so badly.
  • schmitter 2010-09-17 09:15
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.
  • Dan 2010-09-17 09:15
    The Shade 8 one bugs me because it's still only the 7th shade!!!
  • none 2010-09-17 09:16
    The "Shade 8" seems to be a copy-paste error from a page selling welding shades (as revealed by the fine text). The darkness is given in "shades"
  • Liar Paradox 2010-09-17 09:16
    Liar Paradox:
    Error: This comment contains no text.

    On second thought, something more like:
    Error: the length of this comment must be greater than zero.

    would probably be easier to relate to the WTF.
  • Andrew 2010-09-17 09:17
    schmitter:

    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.


    So you carry cash (namely ones) on you at all times?
  • NullPointerException 2010-09-17 09:19
    schmitter:
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.


    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.
  • Markp 2010-09-17 09:20
    Greg:
    "Given that I'm 25, I guess I can't continue with this survey?"

    No, they just assume that anyone from 25-44 would either rather not say (Prefer not to answer) or would lie about their age anyway (one of the other options).
  • GG 2010-09-17 09:21
    Liar Paradox:
    Error: This comment contains no text.


    Your comment is invalid or your comment is valid by my comment on your comment is invalid.
  • frits 2010-09-17 09:23
    Markp:
    Dave:
    "I was buying some vinyl from this site," wrote Matt, "but I couldn't help but wonder, what color is shade 8?"


    If you don't know that, you're not qualified to be welding anyway.


    Feature this please. ^^^
  • GG 2010-09-17 09:23
    correction:

    Your comment is invalid or your comment is valid BUT my comment on your comment is invalid.
  • Mad Benjamin(s) 2010-09-17 09:31
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.
  • Bob 2010-09-17 09:32
    NullPointerException:


    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins.


    Panhandler: "Buddy, can you spare a dime?"

    NullPointerException: "Sure thing. Have you got change for a hundred?"

    Panhandler: ...
  • anon 2010-09-17 09:33
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.
  • pnieuwkamp 2010-09-17 09:34
    "Enter the dollar amount" -> maybe you shouldn't include the cents then? Besides, not everyone uses a period as decimal separator...
  • uh... 2010-09-17 09:37
    frits:
    Markp:
    Dave:
    "I was buying some vinyl from this site," wrote Matt, "but I couldn't help but wonder, what color is shade 8?"


    If you don't know that, you're not qualified to be welding anyway.


    Feature this please. ^^^

    Why? It's not clever OR funny.
  • GSchizas 2010-09-17 09:38
    Shade 8 is, of course, Octarin (sort of purple greenish).
  • NullPointerException 2010-09-17 09:39
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    But there are different terms for credit and debit cards. For one thing, the rules about recovering fraud make it much easier to recover stolen money from a credit card than a debit card. Plus, if someone steals my cc info I haven't actually lost any money yet, but if they steal my debit card info they're actually removing money from my bank account.
  • foof 2010-09-17 09:41
    The Inkscape uninstaller bug is old but it hasn't been fixed. Just click on "always answer Yes" and it goes away.

    The installer isn't any better either. It takes 8 minutes to install. 7 minutes of those it spends "searching" for something but I've no idea what is it looking for or if it ever finds it.
  • Xzibit 2010-09-17 09:41
    Yo dawg, we heard your state code was invalid or your state code was valid but the status code for your state code was invalid, so we put a valid status code in your state code so Microsoft CRM can check the status of your state.
  • Mad Benjamin(s) 2010-09-17 09:44
    NullPointerException:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    But there are different terms for credit and debit cards. For one thing, the rules about recovering fraud make it much easier to recover stolen money from a credit card than a debit card. Plus, if someone steals my cc info I haven't actually lost any money yet, but if they steal my debit card info they're actually removing money from my bank account.

    These are all very good points to be fair. Personally I despise credit, I don't own any credit cards and my only outstanding loan is my mortgage. But you raise some good points about the security aspects of credit vs debit cards.
  • frits 2010-09-17 09:45
    uh...:
    frits:
    Markp:
    Dave:
    "I was buying some vinyl from this site," wrote Matt, "but I couldn't help but wonder, what color is shade 8?"


    If you don't know that, you're not qualified to be welding anyway.


    Feature this please. ^^^

    Why? It's not clever OR funny.


    Because it's informative. Shade #8 is well known to welders and the screenshot shown is for welding screens.
  • Consultant Zero 2010-09-17 09:47
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    My credit card charges no interest on charges less than 60 days old. Further, a debit card doesn't build credit history. I had sterling credit, no debt, few bills, and high pay - I was unable to get a small mortgage. You know those deals where you prepay in advance for a large discount? Always did those (year gym membership for the cost of three months, for example). Underwriter told me, point blank, they couldn't profile me thus couldn't lend to me.

    You have to be a credit risk.

    Now that I have a mortgage (went elsewhere and got accepted in a high risk pool...) I can get every loan under the sun, including another, full mortgage. And before anyone latches on to the high risk supposing that I don't understand my credit... every line of credit I have is below published rates. It's just not rational.
  • TheJasper 2010-09-17 09:51
    Andrew:
    schmitter:

    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.


    So you carry cash (namely ones) on you at all times?


    Is that such a strange thing? (I'll admit, being dutch, I carry coins, for ones and twos, not bills but the principle is the same).
  • Jan 2010-09-17 09:52
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    lol, paying a coke with your credit card...you crazy americans!
  • Jens 2010-09-17 09:53
    It's called "Thirst station". Mission accomplished.
  • Jens 2010-09-17 09:54
    I like Denmark where you can pay virtually everywhere and everything with Dankort, a debit card. But if it needs to be a credit card for the comfort, why not?

    Sweden plans to get rid of cash completely.
  • Schmalls 2010-09-17 09:54
    Mad Benjamin(s):

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    I think you are not accounting for some of the best reasons to have a credit card.

    For starters, you have a 30 day (or so) grace period on your purchases with no interest. This means that you can keep your money in your bank account longer where it can be earning interest. Then if you pay it off every month you will never have any interest. This may not account to much interest earnings, but it can also help another way, avoiding overdraft fees on your checking account. When you use your credit card, it acts as a buffer when you know you will have enough to pay it off at the end of the month, but your checking account balance may fluctuate up or down during the month.

    Secondly, most good cards will have rewards of some kind. They are basically giving back some of the money they receive from fees they collect from each transaction. Of course they keep the lion's share, but consider this: most places you can use a credit card charge the same price no matter which form of payment you use (there are some gas stations which charge more for credit card purchases). So which would you rather do: give more profit to the merchant where you get nothing back, or give more money to the credit card company where you will get something back? I myself am a fan of the cash back reward types and will generally get 1% back on all purchases and can get 3-5% back on some categories of purchases. As long as you never carry a balance on the credit card, the company will basically pay you to use it.
  • Anonymous 2010-09-17 09:54
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary... On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added...

    I'm a software developer but it doesn't change the fact I consider paper to be a far easier alternative to an entire frigging computer. So what if someone has to write "$1.25" by hand? After all, you can hire any idiot to write "$1.25" on a bit of paper but you need to hire experts to maintain a computer system.

    anon:
    Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock

    All the "old ones" I'm familiar with had glass fronts so you could see immediately what was and wasn't in stock, without requiring an entire frigging computer to figure it out for you.

    Just because you can put a computer into something doesn't mean you should.
  • Schmalls 2010-09-17 09:58
    Xzibit:
    Yo dawg, we heard your state code was invalid or your state code was valid but the status code for your state code was invalid, so we put a valid status code in your state code so Microsoft CRM can check the status of your state.


    Thank you Xzibit, I believe you have done your meme justice here.
  • justsomedude 2010-09-17 09:58
    schmitter:
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.


    $1.25 for a soda? Wowzas. Back in my day we paid $0.50 and resented every bit of it.
  • TheJasper 2010-09-17 09:59
    Consultant Zero:

    My credit card charges no interest on charges less than 60 days old. Further, a debit card doesn't build credit history. I had sterling credit, no debt, few bills, and high pay - I was unable to get a small mortgage. You know those deals where you prepay in advance for a large discount? Always did those (year gym membership for the cost of three months, for example). Underwriter told me, point blank, they couldn't profile me thus couldn't lend to me.

    You have to be a credit risk.

    Now that I have a mortgage (went elsewhere and got accepted in a high risk pool...) I can get every loan under the sun, including another, full mortgage. And before anyone latches on to the high risk supposing that I don't understand my credit... every line of credit I have is below published rates. It's just not rational.


    That's an american approach. In the Netherlands they are interested in your outstanding debt and payment history. You credit rating doesn't start at rock bottom though. If you have a job and no debt you are a good credit risk. No job no credit. Outstanding debt? How high it is will determine how much you can loan. They are much more interested in how much you earn than in some fictive debt hsitory which only shows you are constantly short of money. The profiling isn't necessarily a bad idea but it does lead to these strange situation.
  • SR 2010-09-17 10:02
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    Good defence of the new Coke machines. Did you write the code for them or something?
  • LimaBravo 2010-09-17 10:04
    Well the shade8 colo(u)r is not really a wtf. The site offers welding screens, to protect people from looking into a welding flame and suffering eye damage. Shade 8 might not be a colour but is a term used in the welding-business. Shade 8 is a semi transparant that filters out most of the harmfull light, the number indidcates how much/little is filtered. you could e.g. also have shade5 or shade13. And for a weldign screen ofering site i don't think using a industry standard to describe what your getting as a WTF.

    Greets,
    LimaBravo
    "An overactive googler."
  • G 2010-09-17 10:08
    Where's my file, G?
  • feugiat 2010-09-17 10:10
    [x] Prefer not to comment
  • norbert79 2010-09-17 10:11
    No, you cannot have it. Not yours! ;)
    Anyway, this error still appears in 0.47 of Inkscape as well, and only when the file has a very long pathname. Yet you can just remove all the files during an upgrade, though this display bug is still present.
  • Matt Westwood 2010-09-17 10:24
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    The real WTF is soda.

    CAPTCHA: Vindico: I came, I saw, I vindicate
  • Matt Westwood 2010-09-17 10:25
    GSchizas:
    Shade 8 is, of course, Octarin (sort of purple greenish).


    +1
  • Erasmus Darwin 2010-09-17 10:25
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    But you raise some good points about the security aspects of credit vs debit cards.


    While most of the main points have been raised (better fraud protection, rewards, grace period, etc.), there's one more advantage of a credit card over debit: Authorization holds can screw over debit card users who don't have a lot of money in their accounts. Buying $5 worth of gas can sometimes result in $100 of the account balance being tied up for a few days until the hold clears. With a credit card, it's only part of your credit line that's temporarily unavailable -- you don't have to worry about your actual money being tied up.
  • Ha! 2010-09-17 10:26
    Jens:
    It's called "Thirst station". Mission accomplished.

    Now this should be a featured comment!
  • TheJasper 2010-09-17 10:28
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.
  • Matt Westwood 2010-09-17 10:30
    Schmalls:
    Mad Benjamin(s):

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    I think you are not accounting for some of the best reasons to have a credit card.

    For starters, you have a 30 day (or so) grace period on your purchases with no interest. This means that you can keep your money in your bank account longer where it can be earning interest. Then if you pay it off every month you will never have any interest. This may not account to much interest earnings, but it can also help another way, avoiding overdraft fees on your checking account. When you use your credit card, it acts as a buffer when you know you will have enough to pay it off at the end of the month, but your checking account balance may fluctuate up or down during the month.

    Secondly, most good cards will have rewards of some kind. They are basically giving back some of the money they receive from fees they collect from each transaction. Of course they keep the lion's share, but consider this: most places you can use a credit card charge the same price no matter which form of payment you use (there are some gas stations which charge more for credit card purchases). So which would you rather do: give more profit to the merchant where you get nothing back, or give more money to the credit card company where you will get something back? I myself am a fan of the cash back reward types and will generally get 1% back on all purchases and can get 3-5% back on some categories of purchases. As long as you never carry a balance on the credit card, the company will basically pay you to use it.


    I'd actually prefer to give more profit to the merchant. These are tough times at the moment, and the merchants are suffering no less than anyone else.
  • Steve 2010-09-17 10:30
    Matt Westwood:
    The real WTF is soda.

    CAPTCHA: Vindico: I came, I saw, I vindicate

    You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your dislike of soda. Did soda help noise pollution kill your grandma?
  • Misel 2010-09-17 10:33
    I can understand that soda machines could utilize an internet connection (stock updates, display gimmicks, credit card payments).

    But why does it have to boot off the network?
  • dolor 2010-09-17 10:34
    Misel:
    I can understand that soda machines could utilize an internet connection (stock updates, display gimmicks, credit card payments).

    But why does it have to boot off the network?

    Because it's an embedded system with no file system.
  • frits 2010-09-17 10:35
    TheJasper:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cain sugar, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?
  • JSelf 2010-09-17 10:35
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    ...you like being 'that guy' huh?
  • Matt Westwood 2010-09-17 10:37
    Steve:
    Matt Westwood:
    The real WTF is soda.

    CAPTCHA: Vindico: I came, I saw, I vindicate

    You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your dislike of soda. Did soda help noise pollution kill your grandma?


    It rots your teeth for a start. It's overpriced for another thing. Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another (and the bulk of the litter problem round here for another). Bottled water has the same faults (except its kinder to your teeth). Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful.
  • Adam V 2010-09-17 10:41
    Anonymous:
    anon:
    Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock

    All the "old ones" I'm familiar with had glass fronts so you could see immediately what was and wasn't in stock, without requiring an entire frigging computer to figure it out for you.

    Just because you can put a computer into something doesn't mean you should.


    Most of the "old ones" I'm familiar with had a huge Coke (or Pepsi, or whoever) poster plastered across the front. That way you could tell where a Coke machine was from the red glow half a mile away in the dark.

    In fact, some of them were so nice, they withheld the bad news of "sold out" until after you'd put in your money and pressed the button and it had attempted to drop a non-existent can.
  • Steve 2010-09-17 10:42
    Matt Westwood:
    Steve:
    Matt Westwood:
    The real WTF is soda.

    CAPTCHA: Vindico: I came, I saw, I vindicate

    You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your dislike of soda. Did soda help noise pollution kill your grandma?


    It rots your teeth for a start. It's overpriced for another thing. Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another (and the bulk of the litter problem round here for another). Bottled water has the same faults (except its kinder to your teeth). Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful.

    Oh wow, I wasn't expecting a reasoned response from you. Thanks for your input!
  • frits 2010-09-17 10:46
    Does anybody remember the Pepsi machine that had a picture of Jeff Gordon holding an exploding soda bottle at his crotch? The soda was shooting up and out. It was hilarious.
  • dolor 2010-09-17 10:47
    frits:
    TheJasper:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cocaine, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?

    FTFY
  • boog 2010-09-17 10:52
    Matt Westwood:
    It rots your teeth for a start.

    Fun soda fact from my dentist: It's the carbonic acid that rots your teeth, not the sugar so much, so if you think your teeth are safe because you drink diet, you're mistaken.

    Also, the amount of time the soda is in contact with your teeth affects them more than the amount of soda. If you sip a can of soda over the course of the day, you are doing far more damage to your teeth than if you were to finish a whole case in an hour (granted, you'd have other problems if you did that).
  • Neville Flynn 2010-09-17 10:53
    Matt Westwood:
    Schmalls:
    Mad Benjamin(s):

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    I think you are not accounting for some of the best reasons to have a credit card.

    For starters, you have a 30 day (or so) grace period on your purchases with no interest. This means that you can keep your money in your bank account longer where it can be earning interest. Then if you pay it off every month you will never have any interest. This may not account to much interest earnings, but it can also help another way, avoiding overdraft fees on your checking account. When you use your credit card, it acts as a buffer when you know you will have enough to pay it off at the end of the month, but your checking account balance may fluctuate up or down during the month.

    Secondly, most good cards will have rewards of some kind. They are basically giving back some of the money they receive from fees they collect from each transaction. Of course they keep the lion's share, but consider this: most places you can use a credit card charge the same price no matter which form of payment you use (there are some gas stations which charge more for credit card purchases). So which would you rather do: give more profit to the merchant where you get nothing back, or give more money to the credit card company where you will get something back? I myself am a fan of the cash back reward types and will generally get 1% back on all purchases and can get 3-5% back on some categories of purchases. As long as you never carry a balance on the credit card, the company will basically pay you to use it.


    I'd actually prefer to give more profit to the merchant. These are tough times at the moment, and the merchants are suffering no less than anyone else.


    I'll use my cash back to spend more money, thus helping other merchants.
  • toth 2010-09-17 10:57
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    I'll grant you that, for a $1.25 soda, it wouldn't make much difference, but as a general rule, if you only use a debit card, then good luck getting a loan or even renting. At my current apartment, the landlord was uneasy about renting to me and made me get a cosigner, because I had no credit rating (not a bad credit rating, no credit rating) because I'd only ever used my debit card before. Since then, I got a credit card and have been using it frequently, even though I never, ever spend more money than I have. It's kind of kooky, but a credit rating is practically a necessity.
  • anon 2010-09-17 11:03
    frits:
    TheJasper:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cain sugar, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?


    Being a little bit pedantic here, but the whole claim that Coke/New Coke is linked to the switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup is a bit of a legend. Coke had moved to HFCS prior to the introduction of New Coke. The change happened gradually over the course of several years, but was 100% complete before New Coke came out. New Coke was not an attempt to mask this change, it was an attempt to bring the taste of Coke closer to Pepsi, which at the time was tearing through Coke's market share.
  • noobtuber 2010-09-17 11:04
    Evidently www.pvcstrip.com sells software too:

    http://www.madisonartshop.com/shade8-professionalwindows.html
  • RogerC 2010-09-17 11:07
    Markp:
    Greg:
    "Given that I'm 25, I guess I can't continue with this survey?"

    No, they just assume that anyone from 25-44 would either rather not say (Prefer not to answer) or would lie about their age anyway (one of the other options).

    My hunch is that they were trying to exclude all the goofy Generation X'ers, but they made a mistake and missed by 4 years.
  • RogerC 2010-09-17 11:09
    dolor:
    Misel:
    I can understand that soda machines could utilize an internet connection (stock updates, display gimmicks, credit card payments).

    But why does it have to boot off the network?

    Because it's an embedded system with no file system.

    I was going to say "It's a diskless system, kinda like some of the low-end Sparcstations from back in the 90's." But I like your comment better.
  • frits 2010-09-17 11:11
    anon:
    frits:


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cain sugar, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?


    Being a little bit pedantic here, but the whole claim that Coke/New Coke is linked to the switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup is a bit of a legend. Coke had moved to HFCS prior to the introduction of New Coke. The change happened gradually over the course of several years, but was 100% complete before New Coke came out. New Coke was not an attempt to mask this change, it was an attempt to bring the taste of Coke closer to Pepsi, which at the time was tearing through Coke's market share.


    Yes, you're right about the cola wars being the impetus for New Coke.

    Additionally, I read that about 50% of distributors were still using cain sugar for Coke up to the introduction of New Coke. However, when Classic Coke was "reintroduced" 100% of distributors used HFCS. I think the elimination of cain sugar was more opportunistic than planned.


    Addendum (2010-09-17 11:24):
    lol @ "cain". Thanks for pointing that out doods.
  • Neville Flynn 2010-09-17 11:15
    frits:
    anon:
    frits:


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cain sugar, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?


    Being a little bit pedantic here, but the whole claim that Coke/New Coke is linked to the switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup is a bit of a legend. Coke had moved to HFCS prior to the introduction of New Coke. The change happened gradually over the course of several years, but was 100% complete before New Coke came out. New Coke was not an attempt to mask this change, it was an attempt to bring the taste of Coke closer to Pepsi, which at the time was tearing through Coke's market share.


    Yes, you're right about the cola wars being the impetus for New Coke.

    Additionally, I read that about 50% of distributors were still using cain sugar for Coke up to the introduction of New Coke. However, when Classic Coke was "reintroduced" 100% of distributors used HFCS. I think the elimination of cain sugar was more opportunistic than planned.


    Cain sugar: the sugar that kills you.
  • Mike 2010-09-17 11:19
    frits:
    anon:
    frits:


    Not to mention that soda was better in the "old" days. It was sweetend with cain sugar, not HFCS. Remember the new/classic coke debacle?


    Being a little bit pedantic here, but the whole claim that Coke/New Coke is linked to the switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup is a bit of a legend. Coke had moved to HFCS prior to the introduction of New Coke. The change happened gradually over the course of several years, but was 100% complete before New Coke came out. New Coke was not an attempt to mask this change, it was an attempt to bring the taste of Coke closer to Pepsi, which at the time was tearing through Coke's market share.


    Yes, you're right about the cola wars being the impetus for New Coke.

    Additionally, I read that about 50% of distributors were still using cain sugar for Coke up to the introduction of New Coke. However, when Classic Coke was "reintroduced" 100% of distributors used HFCS. I think the elimination of cain sugar was more opportunistic than planned.


    Abel must be overjoyed by amount of Cain sugar that Coke has purportedly gone through.
  • Abel 2010-09-17 11:20
    Neville Flynn:
    Cain sugar: the sugar that kills you.

    +1
  • cystm 2010-09-17 11:27
    You're right. Let me take my debit card to an ATM machine, get some twenties, then go find someone to make change so I have some singles for the machine.

  • SilverEyes 2010-09-17 11:36
    I don't know about where you're from, but here in Canada banking plans typically only allow so many free transactions per month. Credit cards are unlimited. Here, if you're at the point where you're paying with plastic, do you want to be charged $2 transaction fee on top of a $1.25 Coke (sweetened with Cain-Abel sugar)
    at the vending machine?
  • golddog 2010-09-17 11:43
    Actually, it depends on your definition of "borrowing money".

    Using a credit card is, by definition, borrowing money. I'm getting a service or product now without having to reduce my net worth a cent in the short-term. It's a loan with a term of sometime around a month.

    So, my money sits happily wherever I have it, gaining interest/dividends for that time. At the end of that month, I pay the balance in full, no cost to me, and I gain the small amount of money by leaving my money where it's generating interest.

    Another reason to have/use credit cards is the bonuses. Airline miles, shopping points, cash back -- all of these translate into something with an intrinsic worth.

    Of course, none of these strategies work if you're carrying a balance on your card. Then, you're better off spending the cash, as you'll never catch up to the interest rates on cards.

    But, if you're able to pay the balance in full, may as well take advantage of the benefits offered. It adds up a bit at a time.
  • PeriSoft 2010-09-17 11:46
    cystm:
    You're right. Let me take my debit card to an ATM machine, get some twenties, then go find someone to make change so I have some singles for the machine.



    Does your ATM machine require a PIN number and have an LCD display, and can it be reinstalled with a CD disk?
  • Mysogynist 2010-09-17 11:48
    RogerC:
    Markp:
    Greg:
    "Given that I'm 25, I guess I can't continue with this survey?"

    No, they just assume that anyone from 25-44 would either rather not say (Prefer not to answer) or would lie about their age anyway (one of the other options).

    My hunch is that they were trying to exclude all the goofy Generation X'ers, but they made a mistake and missed by 4 years.


    I think it's the other way around, if they put that option there every female would choose it.
  • Jon 2010-09-17 11:48
    You found the G spot... don't delete it!
  • dolor 2010-09-17 11:49
    cystm:
    You're right. Let me take my debit card to an ATM machine, get some twenties, then go find someone to make change so I have some singles for the machine.

    Forget that! Just drop by your local convenience store and get a forty.
  • Mr. Bob 2010-09-17 11:52
    The computer isn't there to tell you (the customer) what is in stock, but to tell the company what <i>isn't</i> in stock or close to depleted. That way they know how many of each product to send on the truck to restock.

    I've yet to see a vending machine like the type shown, but I can imagine half of the incentive for having the embedded display is for advertising purposes.
  • Jaime 2010-09-17 11:54
    Matt Westwood:
    Steve:
    Matt Westwood:
    The real WTF is soda.

    CAPTCHA: Vindico: I came, I saw, I vindicate

    You appear to be one of those cases of arrested adolescence who believe that your masculinity is confirmed by announcing your dislike of soda. Did soda help noise pollution kill your grandma?


    It rots your teeth for a start. It's overpriced for another thing. Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another (and the bulk of the litter problem round here for another). Bottled water has the same faults (except its kinder to your teeth). Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful.
    The water in the US is fine. People drink bottled water for two reasons:
    1. It comes in a bottle. As Americans, we're to lazy to use our own container.
    2. Many people think it tastes better. Plenty of double-blind studies have been done to show that bottled water tastes no better than tap water. Actually, in most cases, bottled water is tap water -- just sold in a bottle. The Penn & Teller segment on bottled water was hilarious, they got people in a fancy restaurant to sing the praises of Los Angeles hose water by giving it a fancy presentation.
  • kastein 2010-09-17 11:56
    Matt Westwood:
    Schmalls:
    Mad Benjamin(s):

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    I think you are not accounting for some of the best reasons to have a credit card.

    For starters, you have a 30 day (or so) grace period on your purchases with no interest. This means that you can keep your money in your bank account longer where it can be earning interest. Then if you pay it off every month you will never have any interest. This may not account to much interest earnings, but it can also help another way, avoiding overdraft fees on your checking account. When you use your credit card, it acts as a buffer when you know you will have enough to pay it off at the end of the month, but your checking account balance may fluctuate up or down during the month.

    Secondly, most good cards will have rewards of some kind. They are basically giving back some of the money they receive from fees they collect from each transaction. Of course they keep the lion's share, but consider this: most places you can use a credit card charge the same price no matter which form of payment you use (there are some gas stations which charge more for credit card purchases). So which would you rather do: give more profit to the merchant where you get nothing back, or give more money to the credit card company where you will get something back? I myself am a fan of the cash back reward types and will generally get 1% back on all purchases and can get 3-5% back on some categories of purchases. As long as you never carry a balance on the credit card, the company will basically pay you to use it.


    I'd actually prefer to give more profit to the merchant. These are tough times at the moment, and the merchants are suffering no less than anyone else.

    You missed the point, the merchant sees the same amount either way. The credit card company is the one refunding you a bit of your money... and who doesn't want to stick it to those guys? They're the ones who jack the rate up to 18-30% if you screw up just once.

    And no, I don't have a credit card, and likely never will. My only debts are student loans and possibly a mortgage in the future... I refuse to buy consumer crap on credit.
  • Ash 2010-09-17 11:57
    The WTF for the "Shade 8" is that it's the 7th one...
  • Spearhavoc 2010-09-17 12:00
    If you think that bottled water and tap water taste the same, then you've never been to the mid-western US, where the water leaves mineral deposits of geological significance AFTER going through a Brita filter.
  • Brendan 2010-09-17 12:01
    G:
    Where's my file, G?


    Don't worry - lots of people have trouble finding the, um, spot where G is...
  • zzonkerr 2010-09-17 12:07
    Shade 8 is what you get if you put shade 16 over shade 2.

    (Shade numbers are fairly well known among those welders who can still see. Shade 8 as a welding shade is too pale for anything beyond light gas welding or soldering, but as a surround for a welding area it's good to reduce stray arc flashes from blinding others working nearby.)
  • the beholder 2010-09-17 12:13
    Matt Westwood:

    It rots your teeth for a start. It's overpriced for another thing. Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another (and the bulk of the litter problem round here for another). Bottled water has the same faults (except its kinder to your teeth). Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful.
    I beg to differ, in part at least.

    1- It rots your teeth for a start. - Kinda true, but it could be a lot better if USA had any kind of dental plan. I'm from Latin-America, and when a friend of mine spent over a year in US she was impressed to see so many middle-class people who had missing teeth. Apparently there's almost no dental plan (unless you're rich), and there is no fluorine on the tap water either. But then again, in a country where there isn't widely accessible health care, dental care is a bit of a dream.

    2- It's overpriced for another thing. - This is like hating houses because the real-estate market is overpriced. It isn't the sodas's fault, if the producer is greedy. And how much do you pay for a can of beer, care to tell? I bet it's more than you pay for a can of soda.

    3- Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another - You're right. But recycling helps somewhat, and research on new substitutes to plastic is bound to give us something, hopefully soon enough.

    4- Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful. - I agree to the letter.

  • Larry 2010-09-17 12:16
    the beholder:
    Matt Westwood:

    It rots your teeth for a start. It's overpriced for another thing. Its packaging is environmentally expensive for another (and the bulk of the litter problem round here for another). Bottled water has the same faults (except its kinder to your teeth). Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful.

    4- Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful. - I agree to the letter.

    TRWTF is that Latin America has outlawed the use of the letter "zed".
  • DaveK 2010-09-17 12:28
    boog:
    Matt Westwood:
    It rots your teeth for a start.

    Fun soda fact from my dentist: It's the carbonic acid that rots your teeth, not the sugar so much, so if you think your teeth are safe because you drink diet, you're mistaken.
    Your dentist is ill-informed, I'm afraid. First off: the *only* thing that causes tooth decay (aka 'dental caries', as distinct from any other form of mere physical damage) is exposure to acids generated by oral bacteria metabolising fermentable sugars.
    boog:
    Also, the amount of time the soda is in contact with your teeth affects them more than the amount of soda. If you sip a can of soda over the course of the day, you are doing far more damage to your teeth than if you were to finish a whole case in an hour (granted, you'd have other problems if you did that).
    Yes, but sugar is sticky, and it sticks to your teeth as you swig your soda, while the acid just flushes straight past. Any plaque on your teeth will also soak it up and hold it in the extracellular matrix, and all the little microbes will go into a feeding frenzy. The acidification caused by bacterial exposure to a dose of sugar persists for twenty minutes after exposure, unlike the damage done by the (extremely weak; because of its tendency to dissociate into bicarbonate ions, the damn thing practically buffers itself!) carbonic acid, which only takes place while the drink is in contact with the teeth.

    References? Sure: (not linkified to avoid rousing the wrath of Akismet)

    http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp
    http://www.doctorspiller.com/Tooth_Decay.htm#Facts%20about%20tooth%20decay
    http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/abyss/dep1211.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid

    TL;DR: The sugar in coke does much more harm to your teeth than the carbonic acid, because it sticks to them. Plus it'll still make you fat no matter what.
  • DaveK 2010-09-17 12:32
    Jens:
    I like Denmark where you can pay virtually everywhere and everything with Dankort, a debit card. But if it needs to be a credit card for the comfort, why not?

    Sweden plans to get rid of cash completely.
    It's not "convenient" - IT'S A TRAP!

    If you give up your ability to perform anonymous transactions with cash, how the hell are you supposed to buy weed anymore?

  • Mel 2010-09-17 12:32
    Jaime:
    The water in the US is fine. People drink bottled water for two reasons:
    1. It comes in a bottle. As Americans, we're to lazy to use our own container.
    2. Many people think it tastes better. Plenty of double-blind studies have been done to show that bottled water tastes no better than tap water. Actually, in most cases, bottled water is tap water -- just sold in a bottle. The Penn & Teller segment on bottled water was hilarious, they got people in a fancy restaurant to sing the praises of Los Angeles hose water by giving it a fancy presentation.

    I personally drink bottled water for one reason: I'm thirsty and/or it's hot, I don't have my own drink and there's nowhere with tap water accessible. Generally I go for flavoured water so I feel like I'm getting at least something I can't from the tap.

    Oh, and our tap water tastes foul. The tap water a few kms away tastes fine, and I'm happy to drink it there, but at home it always goes through a filter.

    And to the person who asked about the price of a beer: here, beer the absolute cheapest drink. At restaurants, supermarkets, convenience stores, everywhere.
  • North Bus 2010-09-17 12:39
    the beholder:
    2- It's overpriced for another thing. - This is like hating houses because the real-estate market is overpriced. It isn't the sodas's fault, if the producer is greedy. And how much do you pay for a can of beer, care to tell? I bet it's more than you pay for a can of soda.
    Where I live, you can purchase off-brand cranberry juice full of sugar (I'm type-I diabetic, juice kills. I get plenty of vitamins from supplements.) in a 1.5 L bottle for $2.00 - $3.49, depending on sales.

    Last week, I picked up two 2 L bottles of Diet Caffeine Free Pepsi (one of my favorite soft drinks) for $0.77 a bottle.

    ...And the plastic Pepsi bottle is much lighter than the thick cranberry juice bottle -- much more environmentally friendly.
  • Mason Wheeler 2010-09-17 12:46
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    These are all very good points to be fair. Personally I despise credit, I don't own any credit cards and my only outstanding loan is my mortgage. But you raise some good points about the security aspects of credit vs debit cards.


    Part of the problem is the wording. They call it "credit," like it's something positive. That's what credit is, right? A positive balance. Like what happens when you complete a course at college. You get a certain number of credits for it. You notice how the term "charge card" has fallen out of favor over the last couple decades? They don't want you thinking about charging something, that you're taking out a loan and going into debt each time you use it; they want you to think you're using "credit!" *insert rainbows and sparkle effects here*

    It seems to me that if the banks were forced by truth in advertising laws to call them what they really are, "debt cards" or "loan cards," that we'd have a lot less people screwing up their lives due to overusing them.
  • Bill's Kid 2010-09-17 12:47
    anon:

    which at the time was tearing through Coke's market share.


    That's only because Michael Jackson was their spokesman and he was really on fire.
  • Mason Wheeler 2010-09-17 12:51
    Schmalls:
    So which would you rather do: give more profit to the merchant where you get nothing back, or give more money to the credit card company where you will get something back?


    That's exactly the sort of short-sighted financial reasoning that got our economy into the mess it's currently in.

    What would you rather do? Give more profit to the merchant who is providing you with the service you are currently enjoying, thus helping him to not only remain in business but also to employ some of your neighbors, which contributes to keeping your whole community healthy... or give your money to a bank that's based out of another state, or even another country, and doing its level best to run the world economy into the ground in the name of stock prices and short-term profits so that you can get a 1% discount?
  • Neville Flynn 2010-09-17 12:58
    kastein:

    You missed the point, the merchant sees the same amount either way. The credit card company is the one refunding you a bit of your money... and who doesn't want to stick it to those guys? They're the ones who jack the rate up to 18-30% if you screw up just once.

    And no, I don't have a credit card, and likely never will. My only debts are student loans and possibly a mortgage in the future... I refuse to buy consumer crap on credit.


    Actually, the merchant pays for the credit card transaction fee.
  • StickyWidget 2010-09-17 12:58
    The problem with the old ones is:
    1. Advertising was limited to single placards on the side, that usually weren't read by consumers
    2. Advertising couldn't be updated easily, or in a timely manner.
    3. You couldn't put multiple advertisements in a single space (i.e. rotating displays, time-division advertising, whatever)

    Now, you can update the display over the Internet with advertising that is right in the customer's face, and sell multiple advertisements that display for a certain segment of time.

    Thank you, that'll be 200 dollars for my 5 minutes of work please. :)

    ~Sticky
  • Mark 2010-09-17 13:26
    "someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?"

    They couldn't be hacked to run Linux?
  • Jellineck 2010-09-17 13:28
    "And no, I don't have a credit card, and likely never will."

    I have one because I don't like the idea of using my debit card online or worse, my bank account # and routing info and fuck paypal. Also, everytime I try to stick cash in my optical drive, my payment never seems to go through. My CC balance is bill-payed at the end of each month so I pretty much get all the benefits and none of the drawbacks of plastic.
  • schmitter 2010-09-17 13:29
    Andrew:
    schmitter:

    If you need a credit card for a $1.25 soda, you need a better job my friend.


    So you carry cash (namely ones) on you at all times?


    Yes. Yes I do.
  • Effete Hipster 2010-09-17 13:29
    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    You never tried to buy stuff and found out it was out of what you wanted or ate your change or your soda / candy got stuck? Or people were just robbing the damned thing?

    If you call that "working," then you must be a Windows user.
  • Justice 2010-09-17 13:30
    Mel:
    Jaime:
    The water in the US is fine. People drink bottled water for two reasons:
    1. It comes in a bottle. As Americans, we're to lazy to use our own container.
    2. Many people think it tastes better. Plenty of double-blind studies have been done to show that bottled water tastes no better than tap water. Actually, in most cases, bottled water is tap water -- just sold in a bottle. The Penn & Teller segment on bottled water was hilarious, they got people in a fancy restaurant to sing the praises of Los Angeles hose water by giving it a fancy presentation.

    I personally drink bottled water for one reason: I'm thirsty and/or it's hot, I don't have my own drink and there's nowhere with tap water accessible. Generally I go for flavoured water so I feel like I'm getting at least something I can't from the tap.

    Oh, and our tap water tastes foul. The tap water a few kms away tastes fine, and I'm happy to drink it there, but at home it always goes through a filter.


    Same here. I live in an old building so I sometimes get funky metallic taste from my pipes if I don't filter my tap water.

    That said, some bottled water (usually the stuff that is tap water in a bottle) tastes downright foul.

    The people who claim it all tastes the same most likely haven't spent much time out west. Part of the reason bottled water is so common in southern California is because the tap water tastes horrendous, to the point of not even being able to make decent coffee with it.
  • Ken 2010-09-17 13:35
    But then I wouldn't have all those wonderful amazon.com reward points.
  • andthen 2010-09-17 13:35
    [quote="Matt Parkin"]This is from a well-known financial planning site[/quote]
    I'm guessing Manu... life?
  • Jay 2010-09-17 13:45
    Someday I'll have to get a job in the credit card industry so I can see how their formulas work. Because it makes no sense to me.

    Like, a company I have a card with just raised my interest rate from 9.9% to 18.9%. So I figured I'd look around and see if I could get a better rate. I saw an ad on the internet for 11.9%. From the same company I had my card with. So I called them up and asked if I could switch to this lower rate. They told me they couldn't change the rate on my current card, but they'd give me an additional card at the lower rate. So now I have two cards with them at two different rates. And twice the credit limit I used to have.

    And by the way, that brings me up to 4 credit cards with a total credit limit of over $40,000. Hey, I make decent money, but if I actually ran up $40,000 in credit card debt, I don't know how I would ever pay it off. I wouldn't give me that much credit. I wonder where they come up with these numbers.
  • Muggles the Wump 2010-09-17 14:09
    To put it another way:
    public CreditCard
    provides an abstraction layer for accessing
    private Money
    stored in a
    protected BankAccount
  • boog 2010-09-17 14:09
    DaveK:
    Your dentist is ill-informed, I'm afraid.

    Not necessarily; I could have just as easily misunderstood/misquoted my dentist and/or exaggerated my claim. I've read up on it a little more now (I appreciate the references).

    First off: the *only* thing that causes tooth decay (aka 'dental caries', as distinct from any other form of mere physical damage) is exposure to acids generated by oral bacteria metabolising fermentable sugars.

    Fair enough. I was mistaken to downplay the effects that sugar can have on your teeth; sugar is certainly a major cause of tooth decay. Still, it seems that based on drinking habits, the acids in soda can cause erosion of tooth enamel.

    Here are a couple references that note a correlation between acidic beverages and erosion:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15960479
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19434767

    If I'm still wrong, feel free to explain.
  • Casper 2010-09-17 14:17
    Anonymous:
    Just because you can put a computer into something doesn't mean you should.
    Bingo! You have just identified TRWTF of the decade!

    Did you know hackers are working on your car's (absurdly unsecured) wireless LAN now? Send the right packet -- unlock the door of that sweet car in the parking lot. Cops chasing you? Send the packet that screws with their fuel injection...
  • Sigivald 2010-09-17 14:18
    All the "old ones" I'm familiar with had glass fronts so you could see immediately what was and wasn't in stock, without requiring an entire frigging computer to figure it out for you.

    Funny, around here I see lots of non-computerized (or, well, not full-touchscreen-backed-by-a-real-OS computerized; I'm sure they have microcontrollers of some sort) vending machines that do NOT let you see stock, and that either don't have "out of stock" lights or ones that NEVER WORK.

    Plus all these comments have missed another thing that the full-front-screen system gives the vendor (and remember, the vending machine is about making the vendor money) - advertising.

    Easily and remotely changeable context-specific advertising. That's animated, if you want.

    Easy to make horrible, ugly, worse-than-useless crap with such a system. But done right, it could easily make for a nice secondary income stream.

    And that is why you're going to see a lot more of them.
  • Beldar the Phantom Replier 2010-09-17 14:22
    What am I missing about the status code error message? It makes sense to me:

    Either
    (1) the user passed a bad status code (e.g. passing 7 for an integer based Enum in C# that is defined as 0 XOR 1 XOR 2 - it will pass compiler muster just fine, but should be caught by parameter validation code as it is obviously incorrect)

    or

    (2) the existing status code in combination with the new state code doesn't make sense (e.g. status code "Pepsi" and state code "Sprite", to stay with the flavored sugar water theme).
  • Eat me 2010-09-17 14:33
    It rots your teeth for a start.
    That's funny, I've been drinking sodas for 50 years and my teeth are fine. Maybe in another hundred years I'll start to see a little decay around the edges?
    It's overpriced for another thing.
    Awesome! Finding an overpriced product is a rare opportunity. Congratulations! You can now make a fortune by bringing a competing product to market at a lower price.
  • D. Adams 2010-09-17 14:57
    'Shade 8' is a super-intelligent shade of the number 8.
  • FuBar 2010-09-17 15:08
    dolor:
    Because it's an embedded system with no file system.
    Don't you hate it when memes turn real? It's sort of just like life imitating art.
  • FuBar 2010-09-17 15:10
    Anonymous:
    Just because you can put a computer into something doesn't mean you should.
    OK, seriously, you are no. fun. at. all.
  • asdf 2010-09-17 16:55

    There's really no need to include this one at all. There is no way that this code could exist in production. Basically, what happened is that Matt was developing a website, did something stupid, and then thought it would be funny to submit it.
  • Your Grandmother 2010-09-17 16:56
    Or maybe it was using a different currency and rounding. 1350 pesos would round to 0 dollars.
  • English Man 2010-09-17 16:58
    Has anyone else called Customer Service for Weld Screen?

    I know, I know. It's been a slow day.
  • Vic 2010-09-17 17:05
    And to pile on on the reasons why the weld screen is not a WTF - the web page even has a mouseover which pops up the exact description of each color choice.
  • Blind guy 2010-09-17 17:38
    Vic:
    And to pile on on the reasons why the weld screen is not a WTF - the web page even has a mouseover which pops up the exact description of each color choice.
    What's a "mouse"?
  • the beholder 2010-09-17 17:49
    Anonymous:
    Just because you can put a computer into something doesn't mean you should.
    I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
  • pratchett fan 2010-09-17 17:58
    Shade 8 would be octarine, of course!
  • old_dinosaur 2010-09-17 17:59
    "I was buying some vinyl from this site"

    Damn I am so "old school".... when I first read that I expected him to be purchasing some LP music records, or 45's even, LOL!

    CAPTCHA 'nulla' - this contract is nulla and voida
  • Roger Garrett 2010-09-17 18:15
    the beholder:

    1- It rots your teeth for a start. - Kinda true, but it could be a lot better if USA had any kind of dental plan. I'm from Latin-America, and when a friend of mine spent over a year in US she was impressed to see so many middle-class people who had missing teeth. Apparently there's almost no dental plan (unless you're rich), and there is no fluorine on the tap water either. But then again, in a country where there isn't widely accessible health care, dental care is a bit of a dream.


    Most middle-class people in the U.S. have perfectly fine teeth, since many employers provide health plans that include dental coverage, at least as an option, and most communities include fluoride (not fluorine) in their municipal water supplies. I can only assume that your friend was visiting some small backwater town in Arkansas, hardly representative of the nation as a whole.
  • iToad 2010-09-17 19:17
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    They are quaint relics of a bygone age. As electronics and networking get steadily better and cheaper, the next generation of vending machines will be able to perform an iris scan as you walk by them, identify you from a data base, and display advertising directed at you personally (just like something out of a science-fiction movie).
  • kastein 2010-09-17 20:15
    Neville Flynn:
    kastein:

    You missed the point, the merchant sees the same amount either way. The credit card company is the one refunding you a bit of your money... and who doesn't want to stick it to those guys? They're the ones who jack the rate up to 18-30% if you screw up just once.

    And no, I don't have a credit card, and likely never will. My only debts are student loans and possibly a mortgage in the future... I refuse to buy consumer crap on credit.


    Actually, the merchant pays for the credit card transaction fee.
    I was talking about the reward points, etc etc. The credit card transaction fee, yeah... that's why gas stations sometimes charge an extra 5 cents per gallon for credit/debit sales. Completely understandable and I curse myself for not carrying more cash every time I have to use plastic at a place like this.

    Jellineck:
    "And no, I don't have a credit card, and likely never will."

    I have one because I don't like the idea of using my debit card online or worse, my bank account # and routing info and fuck paypal. Also, everytime I try to stick cash in my optical drive, my payment never seems to go through. My CC balance is bill-payed at the end of each month so I pretty much get all the benefits and none of the drawbacks of plastic.

    True, I generally use my debit card online anyways. I've had my information stolen twice, once due to a brick and mortar store employee skimming cards (my brother and several other people I went to college with all had their cards jacked too. Sadly we had too many purchase locations in common to figure out what store it was) and another due to the bank getting hacked. In each case my money was refunded within a few days and it was only a minor hassle, so I'll keep doing it... yes I know this is shortsighted.

    Justice:
    Mel:
    Jaime:
    The water in the US is fine. People drink bottled water for two reasons:
    1. It comes in a bottle. As Americans, we're to lazy to use our own container.
    2. Many people think it tastes better. Plenty of double-blind studies have been done to show that bottled water tastes no better than tap water. Actually, in most cases, bottled water is tap water -- just sold in a bottle. The Penn & Teller segment on bottled water was hilarious, they got people in a fancy restaurant to sing the praises of Los Angeles hose water by giving it a fancy presentation.

    I personally drink bottled water for one reason: I'm thirsty and/or it's hot, I don't have my own drink and there's nowhere with tap water accessible. Generally I go for flavoured water so I feel like I'm getting at least something I can't from the tap.

    Oh, and our tap water tastes foul. The tap water a few kms away tastes fine, and I'm happy to drink it there, but at home it always goes through a filter.


    Same here. I live in an old building so I sometimes get funky metallic taste from my pipes if I don't filter my tap water.

    That said, some bottled water (usually the stuff that is tap water in a bottle) tastes downright foul.

    The people who claim it all tastes the same most likely haven't spent much time out west. Part of the reason bottled water is so common in southern California is because the tap water tastes horrendous, to the point of not even being able to make decent coffee with it.
    good lord do I ever agree. Was on a business trip to mountain view in fall 08 and the water had so much gas (of some unknown sort) dissolved in it that it was opaque when I poured it in a glass. It was practically carbonated right from the tap and tasted horrible, so I lived on 3-liter jugs of Poland Springs while I was out there. I hate wasting plastic on small single serving bottles (even recycling, still somewhat of a waste) thus the 3 liter bottles.
  • Carl 2010-09-17 20:56
    I found the same web site and then looked at the fun stuff link for some nice eye candy.
  • frits 2010-09-17 21:08
    Roger Garrett:
    the beholder:

    1- It rots your teeth for a start. - Kinda true, but it could be a lot better if USA had any kind of dental plan. I'm from Latin-America, and when a friend of mine spent over a year in US she was impressed to see so many middle-class people who had missing teeth. Apparently there's almost no dental plan (unless you're rich), and there is no fluorine on the tap water either. But then again, in a country where there isn't widely accessible health care, dental care is a bit of a dream.


    Most middle-class people in the U.S. have perfectly fine teeth, since many employers provide health plans that include dental coverage, at least as an option, and most communities include fluoride (not fluorine) in their municipal water supplies. I can only assume that your friend was visiting some small backwater town in Arkansas, hardly representative of the nation as a whole.


    I keep calling the township because they don't put flouride in my well. I mean, where does all that tax money go?
  • CHR. 2010-09-17 21:41
    Actually, isn't it the phosphoric acid they put in colas (but not necessarily other sodas) that really does a number on your teeth? If I remember correctly, a chicken bone left soaking in Coke will dissolve in a couple weeks.
  • Fred 2010-09-17 22:50
    Shade 8 must be squant.
    http://www.negativland.com/squant/
  • Miksu 2010-09-18 03:04
    toth:
    I'll grant you that, for a $1.25 soda, it wouldn't make much difference, but as a general rule, if you only use a debit card, then good luck getting a loan or even renting. At my current apartment, the landlord was uneasy about renting to me and made me get a cosigner, because I had no credit rating (not a bad credit rating, no credit rating) because I'd only ever used my debit card before. Since then, I got a credit card and have been using it frequently, even though I never, ever spend more money than I have. It's kind of kooky, but a credit rating is practically a necessity.


    To me that kind of logic for getting a credit rating is totally backwards. Here in Finland it's totally the other way round: Your credit rating is based mainly on your income and employment and existing credit cards have a negative effect on it.
  • Eris 2010-09-18 04:33
    PXE? A Coke machine that boots off a network? That's a little too connected, thanks.
  • Don't understand all of this at all 2010-09-18 04:53
    I will make a t-shirt 'I <<<heart>>> TDWTF'
  • chrismcb 2010-09-18 07:38
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    Actually, it doesn't. Some place WON'T take a debit card, that will take a credit card. Yeah I couldn't figure that one out either.

  • chl 2010-09-18 09:27
    the beholder:


    Most middle-class people in the U.S. have perfectly fine teeth, since many employers provide health plans that include dental coverage, at least as an option...


    When I worked at UW, my dental plan included painkillers, simple fillings, and tooth extraction. If you wanted to preserve a seriously sick tooth, you had to shell out >>$1000 for a root canal plus crown. If that is representative of dental plans, then I am not surprised about noticing middle class people with missing teeth.
  • Joe Doh! 2010-09-18 09:32
    The old ones couldn't charge you more when it's hot, that's what's wrong with them.
  • Anonymous 2010-09-18 14:24
    In Germany, the acceptance is quite strictly cash > debit card > credit card, with large margins in between. Instead of a credit card, a giro account is virtually a necessity. While this costs a monthly fee, the card comes with it.

    Most places will make you enter your PIN, though, which makes it cumbersome to use and paying small charges in cash the overwhelming norm. Of course, Germans also think it's totally fine to buy something like a television or even car in cash (yes, we actually DO use these 500€ notes ;)
  • FTW 2010-09-18 16:52
    Probably running linux
  • da Doctah 2010-09-19 02:41
    TheJasper:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.


    "Can"? Your grandparents must've been a lot younger than mine. Soda came in bottles in those days, and none of this namby-pamby plastic stuff either; real forged-in-a-volcano glass! Cans were for beer (which being good Babtists my grandparents never had any use for), and you needed an opener to get into them. Didn't come up with pull-tops until much later, and the ones that stayed on the top of the can were later still.

    Needed an opener for the bottles too, but there was never an issue of knowing when the machine was out of the flavor you wanted. You could *see* the end of the bottle sticking out of the front of the machine. No cap, no bottle, what could be simpler?

    And when you were done, you could take the bottles back to the store and they'd give you cash money for them. Not a big garbage bag full of crushed cans for eight bucks, but a shiny nickel for each and every bottle.
  • Not Matt 2010-09-19 10:01
    I guarantee that this is a real world error in a production system.
    asdf:

    There's really no need to include this one at all. There is no way that this code could exist in production. Basically, what happened is that Matt was developing a website, did something stupid, and then thought it would be funny to submit it.
  • Iain COllins 2010-09-19 16:16
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    Fail.

    Not only are there many places which take credit cards but not debit cards (in particular online stores, but also including over the counter sales - though these exceptions have decreased in recent years) debit cards don't offer the same level of consumer protection rights as credit cards in many regions.
  • Iain COllins 2010-09-19 16:36
    Miksu:
    To me that kind of logic for getting a credit rating is totally backwards. Here in Finland it's totally the other way round: Your credit rating is based mainly on your income and employment and existing credit cards have a negative effect on it.


    In the short term, being granted access to credit may prevent you from getting additional credit (e.g. getting multiple mortgage quotes or short term loans can trip triggers that may cause you to be declined for subsequent loans of mortgages you would normally be accepted for), that's a bit of an anomaly though, and quickly resets itself.

    Additionally, some firms may include information about your existing obligations in their decision making processes, as part of their 'risk assessment' of you (and decide if they think you are likely to be able to pay them back every month without running into major difficulties, because ultimately no-one wants that).

    Having a card, and using it, is a really good way to build up a credit history. Having a strong credit rating - from a history of paying back debts on time - is really useful when you want to buy items like a car or a loan, you can often qualify for reduced interest rates as a result of a good credit rating, because you are deemed a lower risk. This can be useful when buying a house (e.g. if you want to extend a loan beyond standard mortgage conditions, or raise funds for work to be done on a house).

    Except over the very short term, having a credit history is only a positive, as long as you pay back responsibly (minor transgressions like late payments are not a problem, as long as you don't make a habit of it).

    Without a good credit rating it's much harder - and in tough climates can be impossible - to get access to credit. It's very advantageous to have access to credit, particularly in emergencies - especially if you have a family and/or are a homeowner.

  • Nathan 2010-09-19 21:06
    Wouldn't the 8th shade be Octarine?
  • Runswithscissors 2010-09-19 21:35
    So we can make a touchscreen vending machine but we still can't make one that doesn't drop your coke from the top of the machine. They need to reassess their priorities.
  • Eternal Density 2010-09-19 22:50
    Larry:
    the beholder:

    4- Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful. - I agree to the letter.

    TRWTF is that Latin America has outlawed the use of the letter "zed".
    Your post needs scrutinising: since when was Latin America a nation?
    (In case I haven't publicised it, I'm Australian. And I'm tempted to italicise or emphasise the way I'm spelling certain words.)
  • Jonathan Wilson 2010-09-19 23:52
    Given how the credit card companies (at least in the US anyway) force rules on those who want to take cards (e.g. all those rules about how card payment must not be harder/more expensive than cash), why don't they just introduce another rule that says a merchant must accept any valid Visa/MasterCard card regardless of whether its a debit card, prepaid card, credit card or otherwise?

    I havent seen merchants around here that wont take debit cards but I know quite a few merchants that refuse to take prepaid cards (the ones you buy that are like gift cards), its wierd that merchants wont take them.
  • Jonathan Wilson 2010-09-19 23:55
    The vending machines here at work take notes all the way up to a $20 (and regularly spit out $2 coins as change).

    This is in Australia though so the US may be different.
  • Know it All 2010-09-20 00:04
    Actually, the Americans are mostly right on this one, and it is Oxford that have given up, saying that "s" is best if you don't know. (USians by contrast say "z" is best if you don't know, which turns out to be right more often.)

    The truth: Words deriving from the greek letter zeta are more properly transliterated with a "z" (or "zed" in Australian vernacular,) it's just that the English and Colonials couldn't keep straight which words were which.

    Many sources for this, but my favourite* is Godfrey Howard's "Good English Guide".

    * Sorry, couldn't resist.
  • Simon 2010-09-20 02:34
    I cant help myself, but the MS CRM Error makes perfect sence...

    State and Status Code -> Entity State and "Reason" for the actual state of the Entity.

    So its possible to give a Reason (->Status) thats missmatching to the state you wanted to set.

    This error is far better than just crashing, isnt it? :-)
  • TheJasper 2010-09-20 03:05
    Jonathan Wilson:
    Given how the credit card companies (at least in the US anyway) force rules on those who want to take cards (e.g. all those rules about how card payment must not be harder/more expensive than cash), why don't they just introduce another rule that says a merchant must accept any valid Visa/MasterCard card regardless of whether its a debit card, prepaid card, credit card or otherwise?

    I havent seen merchants around here that wont take debit cards but I know quite a few merchants that refuse to take prepaid cards (the ones you buy that are like gift cards), its wierd that merchants wont take them.


    Because credit cards, debit cards, prepaid cards or anything else are not legal tender. Cash is what the government guarantees. If you force merchants to accept all the other stuff you are always screwing somebody over. Either the financial institutions by making them give up their processing fees, the merchants by forcing them to accept them or the taxpayer by making them pay for it. Merchants are not allowed to refuse cash however (except if you try to buy a car with pennies or somehting ridiculous like that). Though I'm not 100% sure how that last rule holds up nowadays. In the netherlands debit cards are the preferred mode of payment and I know of at least one store which doesnt take cash. Don't know if they were ever challenged on it.
  • bill 2010-09-20 05:21
    The good old electromechanical ones were mostly reliable...
    When the price went up, and micro processors became available they started putting bill acceptors on them...
    The bill acceptors had motorized rubber rollers to feed the bills past the sensors - when those rollers got worn they slipped and the bill changers never worked right after that
    we used to have to use one of the other machines (coffe?) as bill changer to get coins to feed the coke machine - put a dollar in, then hit the coin return, it would return 4 quarters.
    the real wtf? why didn't they just fix the damn thing...
  • bill 2010-09-20 05:43
    story from back in the early '70's...
    They had just started coming out with automated bill changers... They had a smaller wall mount model about the size of a microwave oven, might hold a couple of hundred bucks or so... just the thing for laundromats and the like.
    Any way, the owners started coming in to find the machine empty, or mostly empty.
    No fake bills, the lock was intact and hadn't been tampered with, the money was all gone and the machine was just empty. And no, it wasn't an inside job.
    It turned out that the machine designers had used a good old fashioned electro mechanical relay to actuate the coin dispenser to dispense the money. Unfortunately, it was not immune to mechanical shock.
    And somebody had discovered that if you hit that kind of machine hard enough in a certain way, it would cause the contact to close, which would actuate the dispenser with out the need for money input, dispensing free money, at a dollar per hit.
    The manufacturer fixed it... but i don't know what the fix was - they don't tend to talk about that stuff for obvious reasons...


    captcha oppeto - a short musical piece
  • bill 2010-09-20 06:05
    You don't remember beer coming in the old steel, cone top "brake fluid" cans? They had a screw on lid, didn't need an opener. Probably, I don't know, very late '40's or early '50's... wasn't very popular, the returnable glass bottle was still king till the disposible glass and aluminum cans hit.
  • bill 2010-09-20 06:23
    DaveK:
    Jens:
    I like Denmark where you can pay virtually everywhere and everything with Dankort, a debit card. But if it needs to be a credit card for the comfort, why not?

    Sweden plans to get rid of cash completely.
    It's not "convenient" - IT'S A TRAP!

    If you give up your ability to perform anonymous transactions with cash, how the hell are you supposed to buy weed anymore?



    barter it for sex?
  • bill 2010-09-20 06:28
    da Doctah:
    TheJasper:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    You obviously never listened to your grandparents. Things were always better in the olden days. Sure, you had to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow both ways to get a can of soda, but things were definately better.


    "Can"? Your grandparents must've been a lot younger than mine. Soda came in bottles in those days, and none of this namby-pamby plastic stuff either; real forged-in-a-volcano glass! Cans were for beer (which being good Babtists my grandparents never had any use for), and you needed an opener to get into them. Didn't come up with pull-tops until much later, and the ones that stayed on the top of the can were later still.

    Needed an opener for the bottles too, but there was never an issue of knowing when the machine was out of the flavor you wanted. You could *see* the end of the bottle sticking out of the front of the machine. No cap, no bottle, what could be simpler?

    And when you were done, you could take the bottles back to the store and they'd give you cash money for them. Not a big garbage bag full of crushed cans for eight bucks, but a shiny nickel for each and every bottle.


    You don't remember beer coming in the old steel, cone top "brake fluid" cans? They had a screw on lid, didn't need an opener. Probably, I don't know, very late '40's or early '50's... wasn't very popular, the returnable glass bottle was still king till the disposible glass and aluminum cans hit.

    captcha persto: if you don't behave, I'll hit you with my persto (said with lisp)
  • John 2010-09-20 10:10
    I would just like to point out that the CRM error actually makes perfect sense if you know how the system works (using it without knowing how it works is the real WTF).

    So basically every entity can have a "state". For entities like Leads for example, the state can be "Open" or "Closed".

    Then every entity has a "Status Code", which explains why the entity is in the given state. For the Lead entity, these status codes are "New", "Contacted", "Qualified", "Lost", "Cannot Contact", "No Longer Interested", and "Canceled". So each of these statuses are attached to a given state:

    1) New -> Open
    2) Contacted -> Open
    3) Qualified -> Open
    4) Lost -> Closed
    5) Cannot Contact -> Closed
    6) No Longer Interested -> Closed
    7) Canceled -> Closed


    So this error will occur if someone tries to set a status code that doesn't make sense for the given state; such as trying to set status code to "Canceled" on an "Open" lead.

    The CRM GUI actually prevents this from happening, so my guess is that a 3rd party plugin was executing some WTF code that tried setting a status on an entity without also updating the state.
  • operagost 2010-09-20 10:12
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try renting a car without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent out the cheapest cars and expect a very large deposit.
  • MMORPG 2010-09-20 10:16
    operagost:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try buying an house without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent or charge a huge interest rate and expect a very large down payment (and mortgage insurance).

    FTFY
  • Experts Unnecessary 2010-09-20 10:37
    Anonymous:
    I'm a software developer but it doesn't change the fact I consider paper to be a far easier alternative to an entire frigging computer. So what if someone has to write "$1.25" by hand? After all, you can hire any idiot to write "$1.25" on a bit of paper but you need to hire experts to maintain a computer system.


    This site would beg to differ...


  • Mad Benjamin(s) 2010-09-20 11:00
    operagost:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try renting a car without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent out the cheapest cars and expect a very large deposit.

    I've rented cars with my debit card before but I'm starting to get the impression that things are a bit different in the US. Here in the UK there is no such thing as a merchant who accepts credit but not debit. It simply doesn't happen. Very occasionally you get merchants who accept debit but won't take credit - but it's never the other way round. I guess debit cards are far more integrated into our banking infrastructure here in the UK than they are in the US.
  • MMORPG 2010-09-20 11:15
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    operagost:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try renting a car without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent out the cheapest cars and expect a very large deposit.

    I've had good teeth before but I'm starting to get the impression that things are a bit different in the US. Here in the UK there is no such thing as a merchant with good teeth. It simply doesn't happen. Very occasionally you get merchants who have all bad teeth and no good teeth - but it's never the other way round. I guess dentists are far less integrated into our medical infrastructure here in the UK than they are in the US.

    FTFY
  • Mad Benjamin(s) 2010-09-20 11:42
    MMORPG:
    ...

    Well hi there Mr. Originality, I'm really looking forward to the rest of your act - I can't wait to find out what the deal is with airline food and why that chicken crossed the road.
  • Ian 2010-09-20 11:45
    meh:

    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    Do you really want to pay 18% interest on a coke?
  • the beholder 2010-09-20 12:02
    Larry:
    the beholder:

    4- Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful. - I agree to the letter.

    TRWTF is that Latin America has outlawed the use of the letter "zed".
    Did we? I think that "typo" must have come from the OP.

    So I guess that TRWTF is that people in english-speaking countries can't write "proper english", or agree in a definition of what "proper english" means.

    But we all knew that already.
  • the beholder 2010-09-20 12:07
    Roger Garrett:
    Most middle-class people in the U.S. have perfectly fine teeth, since many employers provide health plans that include dental coverage, at least as an option, and most communities include fluoride (not fluorine) in their municipal water supplies. I can only assume that your friend was visiting some small backwater town in Arkansas, hardly representative of the nation as a whole.
    I really hope you're right, except for the fact it was a small backwater town (some 50k people) in Washington. BTW, do they have any other kind of town there?
  • MMORPG 2010-09-20 12:18
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    MMORPG:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    operagost:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try renting a car without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent out the cheapest cars and expect a very large deposit.

    I've had good teeth before but I'm starting to get the impression that things are a bit different in the US. Here in the UK there is no such thing as a merchant with good teeth. It simply doesn't happen. Very occasionally you get merchants who have all bad teeth and no good teeth - but it's never the other way round. I guess dentists are far less integrated into our medical infrastructure here in the UK than they are in the US.

    FTFY

    Well hi there Mr. Originality, I'm really looking forward to the rest of your act - I can't wait to find out what the deal is with airline food and why that chicken crossed the road.

    FTFY
  • MarkJ 2010-09-20 13:31
    operagost:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.

    Try renting a car without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent out the cheapest cars and expect a very large deposit.

    In my youth, my employer would give me "One-Trip Travel Orders" (OTTOs) from Hertz to rent cars. Getting the clerks to accept them instead of a credit card was always a struggle, even though my employer was paying for it!
  • DC 2010-09-20 13:49
    kastein:
    I was talking about the reward points, etc etc. The credit card transaction fee, yeah... that's why gas stations sometimes charge an extra 5 cents per gallon for credit/debit sales. Completely understandable and I curse myself for not carrying more cash every time I have to use plastic at a place like this.


    And my credit card gives me 5% back on gas purchases, so that puts me ahead!
  • washii 2010-09-20 14:21
    the beholder:
    I really hope you're right, except for the fact it was a small backwater town (some 50k people) in Washington. BTW, do they have any other kind of town there?

    Aside from Seattle, the Tri-Cities (still somewhat hick-y) and Spokane (..kinda sorta still hick-y)..um..no. This as a WA native. North Central WA native, so I'm not speaking out of inappropriate places.
  • jonnyq 2010-09-20 14:27
    Ian:
    meh:

    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    Do you really want to pay 18% interest on a coke?


    Wow, I know this thread is dead, but geez there's a lot of stupid quotes about credit cards and soda machines in here, especially for a website covered in pedants and people who make fun of wtfs.

    - The 'old' style machines are being fitted with card readers. There's no need to go touch screen just to take a card. Unless it's only of those fancy machines that mixes flavors inside the machine with hundreds of possible combinations, there's no reason to have a touch screen.
    - You don't pay interest on a credit card unless you let the money sit on the card for more than a month. Pay it when the bill comes in? Great! No interest. That along with the fraud protection is enough of a reason to skip the debit card once in a while. I'd recommend almost NEVER using a debit card online.
  • Moose 2010-09-20 14:31
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    Er, these exist. You don't need a 40-inch display to charge a credit card, the tiny little LCD on the reader (including the one in this picture!) takes care of that.

    CAPTCHA: dolor (conveniently, what Scott does not have in his pocket right now)
  • tekHedd 2010-09-20 14:57
    Mr. Bob:
    I've yet to see a vending machine like the type shown, but I can imagine half of the incentive for having the embedded display is for advertising purposes.


    If you're cynical, then I am too, because this is the first thing I thought. It can broadcast the latest flashing commercials at you. Try to ignore that, sucker!

    captcha: transverbero I don't know what it means, but I like it! Say it out loud, it's fun!
  • Suprous Oxide 2010-09-20 15:34
    meh:
    Scott:

    someone remind what was wrong with the 'old' ones that worked for decades?


    Try paying with a credit card on one of your 'old' ones.


    I've seen plenty of old-style ones that have been converted to work with credit cards.
  • Kensey 2010-09-20 15:47
    MMORPG:
    operagost:
    Try buying an house without a credit card. Most won't do it because of the risk. Those that do usually only rent or charge a huge interest rate and expect a very large down payment (and mortgage insurance).

    FTFY


    What are you babbling on about? Whether you get hit for PMI has nothing to do with whether you have a credit card or not, it's how much down-payment you bring to the table. And the card has no effect on your interest rate except insofar as its effect on your creditworthiness numbers leads the bank to consider this or that rate appropriate.

    My wife and I bought a house three years ago with 5% down when neither of us had any credit cards except my corporate Amex (which didn't show up on my credit report, so might as well not have existed, and in any case I had only had it a few months then).
  • Kensey 2010-09-20 15:49
    Jonathan Wilson:
    Given how the credit card companies (at least in the US anyway) force rules on those who want to take cards (e.g. all those rules about how card payment must not be harder/more expensive than cash), why don't they just introduce another rule that says a merchant must accept any valid Visa/MasterCard card regardless of whether its a debit card, prepaid card, credit card or otherwise?


    I believe this actually already is a standard part of all merchant agreements, but like the prohibition on minimum transaction amounts or surcharges to use a card, is widely violated.
  • Kensey 2010-09-20 15:54
    Mason Wheeler:
    Part of the problem is the wording. They call it "credit," like it's something positive. That's what credit is, right? A positive balance. Like what happens when you complete a course at college. You get a certain number of credits for it. You notice how the term "charge card" has fallen out of favor over the last couple decades? They don't want you thinking about charging something, that you're taking out a loan and going into debt each time you use it; they want you to think you're using "credit!" *insert rainbows and sparkle effects here*


    I have always heard that there is a real, functional difference: a "credit card" allows you to carry a balance from month to month, while paying interest (i.e. by using it you are entering into a loan contract with the issuer), while a "charge card" MUST be paid off in full every statement cycle or you get hit with massive late fees. I believe my corporate Amex was a "charge card" under this definition (I always paid it off monthly, but we were warned that any "late fees" were our responsibility); my current personal Amex is a "credit card" as I have an interest rate associated with any balance I carry month to month.

    This may of course be retro-coinage on the part of the credit card companies to create meaning artificially out of changing practice.
  • ÃÆâ€℠2010-09-20 16:12
    i can haz new wtf?
  • Bert Glanstron 2010-09-20 16:23
    Dear Greg,

    In case you can’t tell, this is a grown-up place. The
    fact that you don't know how to fill out a survey
    clearly shows that you’re too young and too stupid
    to be using the internet.

    Go away and grow up.

    Sincerely,
    Bert Glanstron
  • Darth Calvin 2010-09-20 16:25
    I have downloaded your Java...pray I don't download anymore.
  • smbarbour 2010-09-20 16:29
    These new soda machines would be interesting to "investigate"

    They are apparently PXE booting, so you could have a netbook running a DHCP/TFTP server that will start up Linux on the vending machine with a nice little GUI interface with buttons to activate the dispensing mechanisms (I'm sure the vending hardware is connected to the computer in some way).
  • smbarbour 2010-09-20 16:33
    Kensey:
    Jonathan Wilson:
    Given how the credit card companies (at least in the US anyway) force rules on those who want to take cards (e.g. all those rules about how card payment must not be harder/more expensive than cash), why don't they just introduce another rule that says a merchant must accept any valid Visa/MasterCard card regardless of whether its a debit card, prepaid card, credit card or otherwise?


    I believe this actually already is a standard part of all merchant agreements, but like the prohibition on minimum transaction amounts or surcharges to use a card, is widely violated.
    Yes, it is part of the bylaws of both Visa and MasterCard. There is a loophole around charging more for using a credit card, however. You cannot charge a surcharge for using a credit card, but you are allowed to give a rebate for paying with cash.
  • cappeca 2010-09-20 16:44
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    And the new ones are Object Oriented, and deliver soda in XML, so THEY'RE BETTER!!!!!!!!!!11
  • ÃÆâ€â„ 2010-09-20 16:56
    cappeca:
    anon:
    While I'll agree that the broken soda machine is amusing and WTF worthy, the snarky comment about "what was wrong with the old ones" is kind of unnecessary. First off, it implies that the old ones never broke which is obviously untrue, and second it implies that no advantages are gained by the new ones. On the old ones, someone had to manually change small paper labels every time a new product was added, and we've all seen the crappy, handwritten substitutes when the paper label was damaged or unavailable. Also, the old ones often didn't give a clear indication of what drinks were out of stock, and without an onboard computer were incapable of automatically reporting back to a central server what the current inventory was.


    And the new ones are Object Oriented, and deliver soda in XML, so THEY'RE BETTER!!!!!!!!!!11

    But can the new ones give you two drinks when you only paid for one? That's the deal breaker...
  • Ceiling Cat 2010-09-20 17:11
    ÃÆâ€â„Â:
    i can haz new wtf?

    NO. LOL.
  • LB 2010-09-20 18:49
    Kensey:
    I have always heard that there is a real, functional difference: a "credit card" allows you to carry a balance from month to month, while paying interest (i.e. by using it you are entering into a loan contract with the issuer), while a "charge card" MUST be paid off in full every statement cycle or you get hit with massive late fees. I believe my corporate Amex was a "charge card" under this definition (I always paid it off monthly, but we were warned that any "late fees" were our responsibility); my current personal Amex is a "credit card" as I have an interest rate associated with any balance I carry month to month.

    The first card I ever got was an AmEx charge card, and they made a point of pointing out that it was not a credit card, since it had to be paid off every month. Since they weren't extending me a continuing credit line, it didn't require the credit rating that a credit card did (at least at the time). It was a useful way to initially build up enough of a credit rating so that I could get regular credit cards. Once I could, I ditched the AmEx account which charged an annual fee in favor of the credit cards that didn't, but I maintained the pattern of paying the bill in full each month, so that charge card left me with good habits for later.
  • LB 2010-09-20 18:51
    da Doctah:
    "Can"? Your grandparents must've been a lot younger than mine. Soda came in bottles in those days, and none of this namby-pamby plastic stuff either; real forged-in-a-volcano glass! Cans were for beer (which being good Babtists my grandparents never had any use for), and you needed an opener to get into them. Didn't come up with pull-tops until much later, and the ones that stayed on the top of the can were later still.

    Needed an opener for the bottles too, but there was never an issue of knowing when the machine was out of the flavor you wanted. You could *see* the end of the bottle sticking out of the front of the machine. No cap, no bottle, what could be simpler?

    And when you were done, you could take the bottles back to the store and they'd give you cash money for them. Not a big garbage bag full of crushed cans for eight bucks, but a shiny nickel for each and every bottle.

    I miss real Pepsi bottles. When I first moved to the east coast, Pepsi wasn't sold in glass bottles here, but it still was back in the midwest where my parents lived. Whenever I went back for a visit I'd always bring back several cases of Pepsi so that I could drink some that wasn't tainted by the metallic taste of an aluminum can.
  • Rob 2010-09-20 20:18
    TheJasper:


    Because credit cards, debit cards, prepaid cards or anything else are not legal tender. Cash is what the government guarantees. If you force merchants to accept all the other stuff you are always screwing somebody over. Either the financial institutions by making them give up their processing fees, the merchants by forcing them to accept them or the taxpayer by making them pay for it. Merchants are not allowed to refuse cash however (except if you try to buy a car with pennies or somehting ridiculous like that). Though I'm not 100% sure how that last rule holds up nowadays. In the netherlands debit cards are the preferred mode of payment and I know of at least one store which doesnt take cash. Don't know if they were ever challenged on it.


    Merchants are not required to accept cash. The transaction hasn't completed, so there's no debt.

    http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml
  • kastein 2010-09-20 22:51
    Anonymous:
    In Germany, the acceptance is quite strictly cash > debit card > credit card, with large margins in between. Instead of a credit card, a giro account is virtually a necessity. While this costs a monthly fee, the card comes with it.

    Most places will make you enter your PIN, though, which makes it cumbersome to use and paying small charges in cash the overwhelming norm. Of course, Germans also think it's totally fine to buy something like a television or even car in cash (yes, we actually DO use these 500€ notes ;)

    I've bought four vehicles with cash so far... two jeep cherokees for 2400 dollars and 1000 dollars, a jeep comanche for 800 dollars, and a 5 ton military surplus cargo truck for 2500 dollars. I tend to follow the "if I don't have the money to pay for it up front, I probably don't really need it to live" philosophy.

    Runswithscissors:
    So we can make a touchscreen vending machine but we still can't make one that doesn't drop your coke from the top of the machine. They need to reassess their priorities.
    They actually do make machines that don't drop the soda, there is a conveyor belt on a vertical gantry crane that goes to the level of the soda being dispensed, catches it only a few inches from where it was dropped, then drops to the bottom of the machine and shuttles the soda out the opening. Real neat, and really funny to watch when they get screwed up.

    bill:
    story from back in the early '70's...
    They had just started coming out with automated bill changers... They had a smaller wall mount model about the size of a microwave oven, might hold a couple of hundred bucks or so... just the thing for laundromats and the like.
    Any way, the owners started coming in to find the machine empty, or mostly empty.
    No fake bills, the lock was intact and hadn't been tampered with, the money was all gone and the machine was just empty. And no, it wasn't an inside job.
    It turned out that the machine designers had used a good old fashioned electro mechanical relay to actuate the coin dispenser to dispense the money. Unfortunately, it was not immune to mechanical shock.
    And somebody had discovered that if you hit that kind of machine hard enough in a certain way, it would cause the contact to close, which would actuate the dispenser with out the need for money input, dispensing free money, at a dollar per hit.
    The manufacturer fixed it... but i don't know what the fix was - they don't tend to talk about that stuff for obvious reasons...


    captcha oppeto - a short musical piece
    My boss at the garage I used to work at told me that back in the day you could use a long strip of masking tape, attach it to one end of the bill (very close to the edge so it didn't obscure much of the printing) then buy what you wanted and yank the bill out again using the tape. Pretty clever if you ask me.

    the beholder:
    Larry:
    the beholder:

    4- Possibly the real WTF is that one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world supplies water from its faucets that is less than 100% appetising or healthful. - I agree to the letter.

    TRWTF is that Latin America has outlawed the use of the letter "zed".
    Did we? I think that "typo" must have come from the OP.

    So I guess that TRWTF is that people in english-speaking countries can't write "proper english", or agree in a definition of what "proper english" means.

    But we all knew that already.
    You mean like the countries that speak Portuguese can't agree on anything, nor the countries that speak French, nor the countries that have many local dialects internally, like China?

  • Matt Westwood 2010-09-21 04:00
    chrismcb:
    Mad Benjamin(s):
    NullPointerException:
    I frequently don't have bills smaller than $5 and I almost never have coins. I always have a credit and/or debit card.

    I never use credit cards to borrow money--purely for convenience.

    You do understand what a debit card is, right? The money is debited directly from your account, so you borrow nothing. Therefore if you never use a credit card to "borrow money" you shouldn't even bother having one - a debit card does the same job without the "borrowing money" bit.


    Actually, it doesn't. Some place WON'T take a debit card, that will take a credit card. Yeah I couldn't figure that one out either.



    Had to go on a business trip to the USA a while back. Was told I had to have a credit card because otherwise I would not be able to hire a motor vehicle to get myself from the airport to the office, despite the fact that I had ample credit in my checkng account to have been able to use a debit card with no hassle. So I had to go and apply for a credit card before I could take my trip.

    The real WTF was the fact that because of currency-rate fluctuation between when I paid for the vehicle hire and when the bill came through for me to claim it back on expenses, I ended up out of pocket. The *real* WTF is that I still work at that same company.
  • kastein 2010-09-21 04:42
    The real WTF is that you still refer to hiring vehicles (objects) when everyone here rents them... I guess it is a throwback to hiring a carriage driver, with his carriage and horse :D

    Ignore me, I have nothing meaningful to say in this post.
  • asdfasdf 2010-09-21 08:38
    It would be f-ing nice if they are going to violate the "daily" in "thedailywft", that they at least post some kind of explanation so it doesn't just look like that drunk Remy didn't just drop the ball on posting a story.

    Or maybe BuildMaster just isn't capable of doing that.
  • LB 2010-09-21 10:52
    chrismcb:
    Actually, it doesn't. Some place WON'T take a debit card, that will take a credit card. Yeah I couldn't figure that one out either.

    Some banks have gotten around that by issuing debit cards that can act like credit cards. They'll be MasterCard or Visa and require a signature or security code rather than a pin, so they appear to be a credit card as far as the merchant you're buying from is concerned, but they actually withdraw from an already-funded account, so they're in fact debit cards.
  • washii 2010-09-21 12:10
    LB:
    chrismcb:
    Actually, it doesn't. Some place WON'T take a debit card, that will take a credit card. Yeah I couldn't figure that one out either.
    Some banks have gotten around that by issuing debit cards that can act like credit cards. They'll be MasterCard or Visa and require a signature or security code rather than a pin, so they appear to be a credit card as far as the merchant you're buying from is concerned, but they actually withdraw from an already-funded account, so they're in fact debit cards.

    I thought those kinds of debit card were the default? In my area (Washington), we have the distinction between ATM cards (only for use at ATMs for withdrawls) and debit cards (Visa/MasterCard, for use as a 'credit' card (with PIN instead of signature when supported by the machine (though you can usually choose to use a signature instead), otherwise falls back to signature).
  • smbarbour 2010-09-21 15:13
    washii:
    I thought those kinds of debit card were the default? In my area (Washington), we have the distinction between ATM cards (only for use at ATMs for withdrawls) and debit cards (Visa/MasterCard, for use as a 'credit' card (with PIN instead of signature when supported by the machine (though you can usually choose to use a signature instead), otherwise falls back to signature).
    On check cards, which are debit cards with a Visa, MasterCard, or Discover logo (though I have never actually heard of a bank that issues Discover branded cards, they apparently do exist), if it is processed the same as a similarly branded credit card (signature), it is considered to be "offline debit" and is subject to a lower interchange rate (what the card associations take as their cut) than a regular credit card. If the card is processed using the PIN, then it is processed using one of the debit networks that appear on the back of the card (Maestro, Star, Interlink, Pulse, etc.) and typically have a flat fee associated with it.

    Amusing industry factoids: Diners Club cards will process under MasterCard (but is owned by Discover), JCB cards (Japan's credit card) will process under Discover, and China UnionPay cards will process under Pulse (meaning the merchant would need to accept PIN entered debit to process them). Discover also owns Pulse (so any Discover branded check cards would most likely have the Pulse logo on the back of them as well).
  • Nathan 2010-09-22 10:26
    RE: Shade 8 it is a specific level of protection from the light emitted by welding. That one was not in fact an error on the site, but rather an example of user ignorance of the specific field.
  • Rich 2010-09-26 17:50
    The 'old' ones would take your money and give you no product. At least it's pretty clear where you stand now.
  • Keith 2010-12-08 11:30
    The "Shade 8" isn't a WTF: it's a Google-fail on the part of the submitter.

    http://tinyurl.com/384aned
  • Friday 2011-01-02 03:34
    <screams_of_frusration>Color 8 is Octarine, the eighth color in the rainbow and the color of magic! Best described as purple-yellow-green, it can only be seen by wizards!</screams_of_frustration>