The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

hanno · 2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Tigress:
To ban Mein Kampf because of the history of the nazis only perpetuates this kind of intolerance. After all, purely looking from a historical perspective, Mein Kampf is an important part of our modern history.

While I don't disagree with any of your statements, I think that not only is Mein Kampf a pathetic piece of writing - it is so bad that most thinking people will be unable to read more than a few pages at a time - it is also overrated in its historical importance in the sense that most Germans knew of its existence but never read it. An interesting fact is that the German authorities have indirectly banned the book, the licensing rights belong to the state of Bavaria and they do not licence it to anyone, effectively preventing anyone from printing a long-overdue critical edition for studying purposes.

Did they offer any kind of explanation as to why they came up this book at the company?

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Years ago, before I had heard of such things, I had a 10 hour interview while expecting only 1-2. When they delivered pizza for the team I figured I might as well eat. Then I got a call the next day that I needed to return to pick up some paperwork. I was livid, but needed the job so I smiled and went and did it. I later found out that the paperwork "problem" was not an accident, the office manager thought I was cute and wanted to see me again. Sounds terrible, but we did end up getting married so I suppose it worked out for us both.

tharfagreinir · 2007-01-12 Reply Admin

I'm shocked and appalled by the fact that nobody who has commented so far has noticed the ambiguity in the phrase 'I Do Models'.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

that was my MOM! We had to move out of state to Rhode Island because of you!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

tharfagreinir:
I'm shocked and appalled by the fact that nobody who has commented so far has noticed the ambiguity in the phrase 'I Do Models'.

That is probably due to the fact, that everybody here does models, except you. ;)

Captcha: bedtime, that it is

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Peter Antoine:
real_aardvark:
I hate to ask, really. But what part of Mein Kampf would be useful in a software engineering context? And what part of a library system, other than the part that bans undesirable books, would prompt a quick reference to it?

It was one of the books in the library (reading/lending library) that the system was being built for. So the proggy was either, have a pop at me, or thought it was funny. Either way not the sort of people/person that I want to spend 8 hours a day with.

Ahhh - I see, I see. Clearly an exceptionally ignorant bigot. A well-educated bigot like me would pick a more apposite title, such as "The love-letters of David Duke." Or perhaps a video of "The Birth of a Nation."

Incidentally, did you know that if you google "racist novel," the preponderance of entries refer either to Huckleberry Finn or to To Kill A Mockingbird? This is the literary equivalent of a WTF.

hanno:
Tigress:
To ban Mein Kampf because of the history of the nazis only perpetuates this kind of intolerance. After all, purely looking from a historical perspective, Mein Kampf is an important part of our modern history.

While I don't disagree with any of your statements, I think that not only is Mein Kampf a pathetic piece of writing - it is so bad that most thinking people will be unable to read more than a few pages at a time - it is also overrated in its historical importance in the sense that most Germans knew of its existence but never read it. An interesting fact is that the German authorities have indirectly banned the book, the licensing rights belong to the state of Bavaria and they do not licence it to anyone, effectively preventing anyone from printing a long-overdue critical edition for studying purposes.

Did they offer any kind of explanation as to why they came up this book at the company?

Yes, typical Teutonic thoroughness there. Rather like the British "Freedom of Information" act, whereby you the citizen can ask for just about anything, and they the civil service can refuse because, well, it would cost too much to look up. (I wish I were kidding.)

Tigress, sweetheart, you need to develop a facility for ironic detachment. I was not proposing to ban books, or to burn them. I was merely pointing out that the only logical connection between the operation of a public lending library and the "philosophy" propounded (in rotten and unreadable German; I agree) would fall into this category.

Is that all clear now?

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Another Infidel:
Seriously, I have worked in the IT industry for over two decades, and I have never ever seen anyones parents turning up to give a proxy interview (even Stephan's).

Right. And because YOU've never seen it, it obviously doesn't exist and was made up.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

K:
JRock:
3rd hour was with the hr manager and we talked about our kids and taking them to amusement parks.

Wow, an HR manager clueless enough to talk with a candidate about his family? What HR guy doesn't know to steer away from topics like that, since it's illegal to discriminate in hiring based on your marital/family status?

I had talked one time with a job interviewer about my very pregnant wife. When I was called in for a second interview about two weeks later (after my wife had given birth), I was asked follow up questions about the pregnancy and the birth and whatnot. Sometimes it's not about discriminating or following the letter of the law - sometimes it's just about trying to get to know someone that you may have to work with on a daily basis and making sure the both of you "fit".

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Paul:
I applied to a job as a "PHP/MySQL developer" at a telecommunication company once. During the first interview, I met the company's HR lady. The talk was really positive. The company seemed very nice, too. She asked me I could provide a code sample in a couple of days. Not a problem, of course. I promised I'd mail it the next day.
I did and got a reply from her a day after, telling me that two of the company's developers had reviewed the code. They thought I'd make a nice addition to the team, and invited me to a second interview. Great.

This time, four people showed up: the HR lady, the owner of the company, a developer and a DBA. The talk went great. I had a good answer for all the questions they asked me and everyone looked happy. After another hour or so, we all shook hands, and they told me they had another interview later in the day and that they would contact me as soon as they had made a decision.

The next day, I got a phonecall saying that I got the job. Fantastic. I also got told that they "forgot to mention" something during the interviews. I'd also be a sysadmin for a mission critical server that handled SMS traffic. Plus, I'd have to be on call every night during weekdays and the whole weekend every other week. In fact, coding PHP or MySQL would "probably take up maybe one or two hours a day".

Clearly not the job I had applied for anymore, I turned it down. The weird thing is that the exact same thing happened to me before, only that they had the guts to just tell it to me during the interview then. (I applied as a PHP/MySQL developer at a gaming company, but during the interview the job description slowly morphed into being a sysadmin for servers that hosted national competitions and the like).

great story and frankly a big lesson i learned early was to ask as many questions as can you think of during the interview. many moons ago, i was hired by a small consulting firm which had "more work than they could handle". i was given 5k to move and i packed up and headed to a new state. 8 weeks later, i was bored stiff as there was zero work to do. seems that they hired a sales guy with little technical knowledge and he wasn't very good at drumming up business. so, they wanted to convert me to an as/400 guy. ummm...no thanks.

anyway, i left that job 3 months after landing it (having to give back 1/2 the 5k) and have been with my current company for 8 years.

lyates · 2007-01-12 Reply Admin

c++ sucks!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

real_aardvark:
Ahhh - I see, I see. Clearly an exceptionally ignorant bigot. A well-educated bigot like me would pick a more apposite title, such as "The love-letters of David Duke." Or perhaps a video of "The Birth of a Nation."

If he had called up "Birth of a Nation" I would also have walked out. Not because of the implied insult, but because he might have been one of those people that think this one of the greatest films ever made (see:http://imdb.com/title/tt0004972/). That level of idiocy needs to be avoided at all costs. Coming into contact with it sucks the IQ points right out of your head.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

rmr:
been there:
Over the years I've gone on a couple of interviews where they ask me how I'd fix a 'hypothetical' production problem. I quickly caught on that they were scambling and didn't know how to fix something, and were looking for some free advice.
I've also gone on interviews where they'd ask me how to design something. Then I'd notice that they had the kind of sketches you'd normally make when trying to figure out how to do something. If I was certain they were looking for free advice, I'd invariably tell them enough to let them know I knew how to solve the problem. Then they'd ask for more information. My response? "I'll tell you the ending after I start work", and then cut the interview short.

Err, let me guess, you didn't get the job?

I guess he wouldn't have been given the job anyway. The company were only after the solution to the problem, not the solver.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Parents for their sons, it's a wtf to be sure, it's stupid. But it's not quite scary/insane.

A husband coming in with his wife, and talking for her (she was the potential hire, not him), that's just freaky.

Eventually we hired a woman who, despite being from one of those head-covering religions, could do her own damn interview.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

My favorite stories are the ones that include "... and I bolted, never to return". Awesome!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

random_coder():
Anon:
md2perpe:
That database technician probably had Asperger Syndrome.

I have a brother with this. Since he can function normally in most every respect people just think he's an inconsiderate ass. In reality he really can't do things like use the appropriate tone of voice or explain anything in a subtle manner. Every day we have to remind him "lower your voice", "don't interrupt", "It's good to be passionate about something, but try not to go into so much detail unless you are asked to" but it never sinks in.

We make it clear that he has to work hard at these things, but to some extent he needs other people to be more understanding. People with Aspergers tend to make good scientists and engineers, but if they can't get past an interview with HR or collaborate with co-workers their talent tends to get wasted.

As someone with Asperger's - I agree. I've taken to reading acting books to learn how to play "roles" - without that, I'd be the horrid dork everyone avoided in high school. Still do it from time to time, too.

Funny thing is, most people I've met with Asperger's get along with fellow Aspies just fine...

Hey! Frantic hand flapping! Another aspie right here!

captcha poprocks

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

The issue is not the quality of "Birth of a Nation" (I have not actually seen it but I am told it is pretty good). If they had looked up "Sounder" or "The Color Purple" it would have been almost as bad. The problem was that, upon seeing a person with dark skin, they picked a skin color related movie.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Peter Antoine:
You also used a "red flag" word. Terms like "Jew" and "Jews" (as a plural for Jew) are generally only used by the far-right, so someone using them in conversation may be letting slip far-right leanings.

Not to defend the comment made in the interview, but in my experience, terms like "Jew" and "Jews" are often used by Jews. Maybe I should tell my Jewish friends that they shouldn't be using those words?

lyates · 2007-01-12 Reply Admin

For instance, why not just place the candidate down in front of a computer (Windows, Unix, whatever they will be using) and have them solve a simple-ish problem using C++?
And the reason to have them use C++ is that it's my opinion that if someone can write some good C++, they can learn pretty much any language required (there are some exceptions of course).

C++ SUCKS!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

m0ffx:
it's almost impossible to find programmers that are willing to spend most of their day developing in it. ... Back then, the hiring pool was pretty big. "NEXT!"

The Real WTF is that those two statements contradict each other.

Only to someone with anal compulsions about language.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

SomeCoder:
For instance, why not just place the candidate down in front of a computer (Windows, Unix, whatever they will be using) and have them solve a simple-ish problem using C++? ...And the reason to have them use C++ is that it's my opinion that if someone can write some good C++, they can learn pretty much any language required (there are some exceptions of course).

Great. I don't know C++. I do, however, know VB(Script|.NET)?, C#, and can still remember most of what I learned of Pascal, C and Java (don't use it any more). Yet, according to your criterion, I'd do really badly simply because I can't write good C++.

Captcha: pacman. Go Clyde, go!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

C++ SUCKS! [/quote]

No, most C++ 'programmers' suck. C++ is fine.

CAPTCHA: Two to tango

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

m0ffx:
To help with client customization, my company developed a proprietary language called PROBOL. A major downside to this is that it's almost impossible to find programmers that are willing to spend most of their day developing in it. Because of that, I always made it a point to bring it up early on in the interview so that we didn't waste eachother's time.
One enthusiastic candidate waited for me to finish my disclaimer on the language, then immediately said, "Wow, that should be fun. I just finished a book on PROBOL last week!"

Never mind that he might not have been lying outright, but might instead have been confusing the language with either COBOL or PROLOG. <b>Back then, the hiring pool was pretty big.</b> "NEXT!"</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Real WTF is that those two statements contradict each other.
The hiring pool at large is pretty big. The subset of people who want to work on some magical invented language that sounds like it is COBOL and PROLOG would be nearly impossible to find. I assume.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Peter Antoine:
It was one of the books in the library (reading/lending library) that the system was being built for. So the proggy was either, have a pop at me, or thought it was funny. Either way not the sort of people/person that I want to spend 8 hours a day with.

Perhaps the dev doesn't read that many books and happened to know about Mein Kampf (it is pretty infamous), but didn't clue in that that might be a bad choice for showing to a black guy - you know, clueless geek that plays warcraft all day.

Or he could just be the local stormfront rep.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

hanno:
Tigress:
To ban Mein Kampf because of the history of the nazis only perpetuates this kind of intolerance. After all, purely looking from a historical perspective, Mein Kampf is an important part of our modern history.

While I don't disagree with any of your statements, I think that not only is Mein Kampf a pathetic piece of writing - it is so bad that most thinking people will be unable to read more than a few pages at a time - it is also overrated in its historical importance in the sense that most Germans knew of its existence but never read it. An interesting fact is that the German authorities have indirectly banned the book, the licensing rights belong to the state of Bavaria and they do not licence it to anyone, effectively preventing anyone from printing a long-overdue critical edition for studying purposes.

Did they offer any kind of explanation as to why they came up this book at the company?

I haven't read the book, but it's on my list (fairly far down). Yeah, it may be the ravings of a madman, but it's a madman who conquered europe in living memory, so it's sort of important in that way.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Gee, with as little impulse control as you showed during the interview, I'm stunned they didn't offer to make you the VP of Human Resources.

You're a freaking poster child for what not to say/do/hire in consulting!

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

I Do Models should have been titled

"Interview by epoxy"

Sorry, couldn't resist.

patf.net

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

rmg66:
After moving to Ohio from very integrated Northern California, I interviewed for a consulting job near very segregated Cleveland.
The Interviewer, an older woman, had mentioned that she lived in Beechwood, a suburb of Cleveland.

Just off the cuff, and really not meaning any harm, I joked that "Oh Beechwood. My wife tells me that's where all the rich Jews live."

I didn't mean anything derogatory by it. I just thought that it was funny that they all seemed to live in that one area.

At any rate, the interview got real uncomfortable after that. She continued, and even went through all the motions of getting me set up as a consultant with the firm and promised to call, if any jobs came up.

None did, of course.

Gee, with as little impulse control as you showed during the interview, I'm stunned they didn't offer to make you the VP of Human Resources.

You're a freaking poster child for what not to say/do/hire in consulting!

Erzengel · 2007-01-12 Reply Admin

el jaybird:
Another Infidel:
Seriously, I have worked in the IT industry for over two decades, and I have never ever seen anyones parents turning up to give a proxy interview (even Stephan's).

Right. And because YOU've never seen it, it obviously doesn't exist and was made up.

QFT

I went to a driving school once to pick up a friend. The instructor was a commercial truck driver. The entire time there I heard him spout off stories that were completely plausible for a truck driver to have encountered. Then one of the teens in the class "whispered" to one of the others, "There's no way he could have had all this happen to him." Excuse me, he's been alive 3 times longer than you have. What makes you think you can possibly know what he could have experianced?

Unless he was telling tales about dropping a nuke while I wasn't listening...

Not that I'm saying the Interview By Proxy really happened, or happened the way it is said to have happened, but never let the facts stand in the way of a great story. ;) (Which is what you should be treating TDWTF as: hearsay. I doubt any effort is put in regarding independant confirmation.)

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

TheD:
I had an interview once with a manager and the resident "technical guru". I got along great with the manager, but I knew that I was going to have trouble with the technical guy. He had poor hygiene, dressed poorly, and he obviously didn't have the use of one of his arms. I knew that I was going to have trouble because of his attitude and (what I perceived to be) his immediate and obvious dislike for me. He started asking me questions about designing databases. I'd forgotten some of the terms (like E-R diagram and normalization) but I was able to describe the processes effectively. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the processes wasn't what he was looking for, he wanted the actual term. Needless to say, I didn't get the job.

I had a similar problem with an interview. The actual interview was actually 6 interviews over the course of the day. One of my interviewers had been a classmate at college, and so we got to talk a bit about the other people that work at the company. He mentioned that the next guy who was going to talk to me was one of the smartest people he had ever met, and he was interested to hear how my interview with him went.

I haven't spoken to him since, but I would have said "Very poorly". The guy walks in and introduces himself, barely even looking at me as he does so (out of lack of social skills as opposed to any latent malice or anything, I assume). Ten seconds into my introduction, he stops me and says "Wait... Do you always talk like this?" Outside of speaking a little too quickly due to nerves, I was annunciating clearly and I do not have a lisp or impediment of any kind. Over the course of the interview he asked me to "Relax" or to "Calm down", and when we finished he simply said "Ok.", got up, and left without so much as a handshake... only to return a minute later to ask me more quickfire technical questions before leaving again.

Funny thing is that while I didn't get the job, they offered me a contract position - according to the HR person, she had heard nothing but positive things from my interviewers. I declined because while I did want to work for the company, I needed something a bit more permanent.

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

grg:
>One enthusiastic candidate waited for me to finish my disclaimer on the language, then immediately said, "Wow, that should be fun. I just finished a book on PROBOL last week!"
Way back we posted a job for someone that knew UCSD Pascal. Someone sent in a resume claiming "8 years experience with USCD Pascal".

He didnt get an interview as:

(1) "USCD" is a common mangling of "UCSD", mainly seen with people who don't know or can't remember what UCSD stands for.

(2) "UCSD Pascal" had only existed for about three years at that time. Maybe he put out 266% ??

Reminds me of the time I read in a Jan. 1998 want ad: "minimum 5 years experience in using Windows 95."

2007-01-12 Reply Admin

Volmarias:
Anonymous:
How in the world did she have your cell phone number?

I suspect he meant his office phone; Any office phone should have a delightful number of buttons to press, including one to shunt all calls to voicemail or to say "I'm not available" in some other fashion. If you've ever dialed a call center, gotten to the hold music, heard it ring a couple times, then go back to the hold music, someone pressed their "I'm busy right now" button instead of answering the call.

No it was my cellphone. I'm guessing she picked it out of the signature in one of the emails I had with this guy.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Sumit:
This story is a bit too Dilbertian to be true. Lest the Indian name in the story and this comment make it appear like that's a common practice in the East, that's far from the truth. Parents will use their contacts and influence to get their offspring jobs, and nepotism may lead to farcical interviews, but that's another thing and quite universal. If this story is true, it's a wacko story in any culture.

I believe it because of the part where the interviewer says something like "you can't do this, I have to talk to your son" and the couple says "Yes, he's a good boy, he'll work well for you". I don't know if it's cultural or what, but I've had exactly that conversation with some foreign tech people where you explain why they are wrong, and they start with "Yes" and then say something that indicates that they have completely missed / ignored what you are saying.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

[quote user="JTK"]<b>

Couldn't have said it better.. (this coming from a C programmer). C++ SUCKS! [/quote]

No, most C++ 'programmers' suck. C++ is fine.

CAPTCHA: Two to tango[/quote]

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Uhh, the quote and what I actually said are transposed. Strange.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Uhh, the quote and what I actually said are transposed. Strange.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

el jaybird:
Another Infidel:
Seriously, I have worked in the IT industry for over two decades, and I have never ever seen anyones parents turning up to give a proxy interview (even Stephan's).

Right. And because YOU've never seen it, it obviously doesn't exist and was made up.

Don't be silly.. the reason you've never seen it is because mothers give GREAT interviews.. all the people that sent their mother as a proxy have been hired :P

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

A group of people once decided that a certain type of books were undesirable. Those books were burned on several occations. That group were the Nazis and the books in question were jewish.

Jewish books?! They're the ones with a little skull cap instead of a hardcover, right? That aside, I think you'll find that the books being destroyed were those considered 'degenerate', which included pretty much anything that the Nazi regime didn't agree with, regardless of the author's origin.

real_aardvark · 2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Franz Kafka:
hanno:
Tigress:
To ban Mein Kampf because of the history of the nazis only perpetuates this kind of intolerance. After all, purely looking from a historical perspective, Mein Kampf is an important part of our modern history.

While I don't disagree with any of your statements, I think that not only is Mein Kampf a pathetic piece of writing - it is so bad that most thinking people will be unable to read more than a few pages at a time - it is also overrated in its historical importance in the sense that most Germans knew of its existence but never read it. An interesting fact is that the German authorities have indirectly banned the book, the licensing rights belong to the state of Bavaria and they do not licence it to anyone, effectively preventing anyone from printing a long-overdue critical edition for studying purposes.

Did they offer any kind of explanation as to why they came up this book at the company?

I haven't read the book, but it's on my list (fairly far down). Yeah, it may be the ravings of a madman, but it's a madman who conquered europe in living memory, so it's sort of important in that way.

As it happens, I have a degree in History, so I have a vague idea of what might or might not be historically important.

I really don't recommend reading Mein Kampf, although as Hanno implies, if the state of Bavaria licenses publication of a critical edition (ie with commentary, footnotes et al, not something posted to thedailywtf with a bunch of comments explaining how the author should really express race-hatred in German ... ;-), and if you can read it in the original German, then go ahead. As an aside, I'm currently watching the Simpsons with Swedish sub-titles, and 90% of the non-visual jokes are simply excised from the text. Not that there are many jokes in Mein Kampf, non-visual or otherwise, but you get my drift.

In any case, Mein Kampf was written from a prison cell in the specific circumstances of the aftermath of the Beer-Hall Putsch. That's why it's called "My struggle," rather than "Buddha, You Fat Bastard," or, er, I don't think I can make that joke in a family forum ... In other words, it's fairly useless as a historical reference point on Nazi Germany 1933-1945. If you must, read "Hitler's Table Talk" (ISBN 978-0192851802), which is rather better source material and has a sort of queasy sense of unreality in the face of stark reality about it.

Personally, I'd recommend William L Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," a fine book by a man who'd been there. Americans seem to have this thing about immediacy and primary sources -- I'm not trying to insult, I'm just pointing out a cultural difference -- which can lead to missing out on analytical works. Fortunately, Shirer does both.

Sorry, that was just a little bit off topic. But, since you asked...

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Karl von L.:
Peter Antoine:
You also used a "red flag" word. Terms like "Jew" and "Jews" (as a plural for Jew) are generally only used by the far-right, so someone using them in conversation may be letting slip far-right leanings.

Not to defend the comment made in the interview, but in my experience, terms like "Jew" and "Jews" are often used by Jews. Maybe I should tell my Jewish friends that they shouldn't be using those words?

Well, just remember Jew is not an adjective--phrases like 'jew lawyer' or 'jew boss' will likely cause your jew interviewer to jew down your chances for employment.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Karl von L.:
Peter Antoine:
You also used a "red flag" word. Terms like "Jew" and "Jews" (as a plural for Jew) are generally only used by the far-right, so someone using them in conversation may be letting slip far-right leanings.

Not to defend the comment made in the interview, but in my experience, terms like "Jew" and "Jews" are often used by Jews. Maybe I should tell my Jewish friends that they shouldn't be using those words?

Well, just remember Jew is not an adjective--phrases like 'jew lawyer' or 'jew boss' will likely cause your jew interviewer to jew down your chances for employment.

2007-01-13 Reply Admin

Seriously, I have worked in the IT industry for over two decades, and I have never ever seen anyones parents turning up to give a proxy interview (even Stephan's).

Although I've never seen it, I wouldn't be surprised. We "normal" techie types with active post-work lives and families like to laugh at these outrageous stereotypes. However, I can say that some of them are actually spot-on.

Here's some of the things I've heard used to refer to all people in our chosen line of work at one time or another. To the rest of the world, we:

Live in our parents' basements
Have no social skills
Lack personal hygiene habits
Are "a sexual harassment suit waiting to happen." (actual quote!)
Think everyone else around them is stupid.
Obsess over science-fiction/fantasy/RPGs, choose your geeky hobby.

I can say I haven't seen all of these at once, but I have run into a few co-workers over the years with one or more. Therefore, the idea of running into at least one person so socially retarded that their parents interview for them is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Think about your average night-shift data center sysadmin. The computer business attracts people who are oddballs the same way sales/management attracts extroverts.

So don't be surprised if Mom walks into one of your interviews. I would be a little shocked, but not totally.

2007-01-14 Reply Admin

All I can say is a lot of you are clueless and/or full of crap. I was a contractor for many years at a large delivery company and was pulled in many many times to do the tech interview - so I was the uber geek (in a suit).

I doubt 3/4 you walked out on as many interviews as you claim. I suppose if the interviews were during the dotcom boom when it was easy to get a job, ok, but this idea that people walk away from potentional jobs due to the HR person being a moron is just stupid. Even if you are convinced the person you are talking to sucks - do you REALLY think you're gonna like everyone at a company? If you refuse to work at places cause a couple of assholes work there...good luck finding a job.
If I did your tech interview and you copped an attitude with me, I'd see to it you didn't get the job. Again, I'm trying to envision this bogus interview where you actually say 'no sample code unless you pay me'. Yah. Right. Tell me another one. Either you are lying or you are an idiot. Doesn't really matter which.
It's pretty normal to branch the tech interview into non-tech stuff. It's called 'let's see if you are an ass'.
I was always upfront about the work load and what type of people you'd be working with. I suppose this amounts to telling people about 'bad code' or whatever. What I didn't want was some pansy-ass quiting the job after they found out it required them to work hard.

2007-01-14 Reply Admin

I hate to ask, really. But what part of Mein Kampf would be useful in a software engineering context? And what part of a library system, other than the part that bans undesirable books, would prompt a quick reference to it?

Burn them! Burn the books! Undesirable! Undesirable!

Sorry, but I think that "Mein Kampf" should be read by everyone. Only when you've tried to read it (don't worry if you can't finish it; I never did) do you realise exactly how messed up the author actually was. It's like reading Creationist literature today: no logical argument, just a repeated pounding away of "THIS is what is true, because I say so!". IMHO, there can be no one single book more damaging to the cause of Nazism than "Mein Kampf".

Now, searching for THAT book during a job interview for a black guy (or a jewish guy, or a disabled guy, or homosexual or any of the other inferior humans who went through the camps) IS a WTF in itself.

real_aardvark · 2007-01-14 Reply Admin

James:
I hate to ask, really. But what part of Mein Kampf would be useful in a software engineering context? And what part of a library system, other than the part that bans undesirable books, would prompt a quick reference to it?
Burn them! Burn the books! Undesirable! Undesirable!

Sorry, but I think that "Mein Kampf" should be read by everyone. Only when you've tried to read it (don't worry if you can't finish it; I never did) do you realise exactly how messed up the author actually was. It's like reading Creationist literature today: no logical argument, just a repeated pounding away of "THIS is what is true, because I say so!". IMHO, there can be no one single book more damaging to the cause of Nazism than "Mein Kampf".

Now, searching for THAT book during a job interview for a black guy (or a jewish guy, or a disabled guy, or homosexual or any of the other inferior humans who went through the camps) IS a WTF in itself.

Oh well, let's just start off-off-topic. (It's sort of like off-off-Broadway, but without as many winos.)

I used to hang out with a girl in Georgia (not that it's relevant, but three counties down from the HQ of the Klan). We were sitting in a bar after work, with a couple of co-eds trying to sell lingerie by, well, almost wearing it, when I happened to mention that Americans often take themselves too seriously. "What do you mean?" she asked. "Well, you never seem to take the piss out of yourselves..." I said, and then I realised that this is actually untranslateable, at least in the Southern States.

Back to being simply off-topic.

I WAS NOT ADVOCATING BURNING BOOKS!

Ho ho, eh?

I do agree with you that reading Mein Kampf (if you have to) will lead any sane human being to recognise that Hitler was a loonie. (Although, frankly, you do have to have a historical perspective on that: don't forget that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was only a thirty-year-old fabrication at the time, and commonly believed to be true.)

I would also agree that it's on a par with a lot of Creationist literature, at least in terms of being a psychotic abnegation of reality.

However, you'd be surprised at how non-damaging to the cause Mein Kampf could be. After all, we are talking about people with severely damaged cognitive abilities here. I was a librarian back in high school, and I vividly remember guys with an IQ of 120+ (it was a selective school. Not selective enough, apparently) foaming at the mouth as they took the damn thing out. Hormones, psychosis, warped intelligence and a deep-seated feeling that the world doesn't recognise genius when it sees it ... well, I hope you get the picture.

Anyway, that's a ridiculous argument. Do you mean to say that you would never have realised what a truly naughty person Hitler was unless you had read his book? What if it was serialised in the National Enquirer, with the more offensive bits chopped out? I mean, what exactly are we saying, here?

Is Stalin any more likeable because he didn't write the equivalent?

Would you agree that Genghis Khan is a sadly misunderstood benefactor of mankind who could have written masterpieces along the lines of Tolstoy, if only he hadn't had to rely on Chinese scribes?

Go away and read analytical works. Otherwise you're just preaching to the choir. Do a bit of thinking for yourself, for a change.

2007-01-15 Reply Admin

TheD:
I had an interview once with a manager and the resident "technical guru". I got along great with the manager, but I knew that I was going to have trouble with the technical guy. He had poor hygiene, dressed poorly, and he obviously didn't have the use of one of his arms. I knew that I was going to have trouble because of his attitude and (what I perceived to be) his immediate and obvious dislike for me. He started asking me questions about designing databases. I'd forgotten some of the terms (like E-R diagram and normalization) but I was able to describe the processes effectively. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the processes wasn't what he was looking for, he wanted the actual term. Needless to say, I didn't get the job.

Surely you wouldnt expect to get a job involving DB design if you couldn't remember 'normalization' - pretty core really!

captcha: alarm -innit!

2007-01-16 Reply Admin

NickH:
Again, I'm trying to envision this bogus interview where you actually say 'no sample code unless you pay me'. Yah. Right. Tell me another one. Either you are lying or you are an idiot. Doesn't really matter which.

Not lying, certainly not an idiot, and I've had plenty of work over the last 35 years. And no, I don't write code for fun, I ride dressage and eventing for fun. So yes, every bit of code I've written over the last 35 years is and was owned by an employer.

In point of fact, I've been complimented at interviews for my integrity in NOT providing code belonging to other employers. I'm always happy to provide sample code, for a reasonable fee -- and thereafter have typically been hired and my code implemented in production.

So, whatever Jack, I've never walked out of an interview, but I have laughed at interviewers (especially interviewers who have so little creativity they can only come up with walking yellow card questions about the length of supervisor calls). And I never, ever, provide code for nothing.

2007-01-16 Reply Admin

Well, as a result, he has the job and you don't. And I suspect that you would expect him and everyone around not to be offended if you looked up a book on "Martin Luther" King, Malcolm X, Mandela and suchlike. This is called self-righteousness and intolerance - so it's a good thing they don't have to put up with the likes of you at their company.

2007-01-16 Reply Admin

Pray tell why is it a bad choice to show "His Kampf" to a black? The book doesn't have a word on the subject of blacks whatsoever. Also, "Stormfront" is not an organization, it's a Web forum and as such, has no "local representatives". You commies are ignorant and seriously in need of head checking.

2007-01-16 Reply Admin

Calling the Protocols a fabrication is the same as calling any fiction book a fabrication. "Those flying dragons and elven princesses are all a dirty lie and fabrication," everyone.

2007-01-17 Reply Admin

And especially to someone who didn't get it that the required language was one the company had created for a specific problem.

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