Java Takes Down the Network

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  • Ben 2008-12-11 11:06
    First *twich* first *twich* first!
  • Someone Important 2008-12-11 11:09
    And that's why coffee should be banned!
  • Ali Bongo 2008-12-11 11:11
    I bet Ricky was a lot less happy about the network refurb after the CEO read the ad in the back of his magazine about those RS232-based networks.

    After all RS232 has much bigger numbers than 10base2, it HAS to be better!
  • Ali Bongo 2008-12-11 11:14
    Quango:
    > coffee coinsurer

    WTF!

    What, you only single-source your coffee insurance?

    You have to co-insure your coffee for that genuine double safe taste.
  • pegr 2008-12-11 11:14
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?
  • ParkinT 2008-12-11 11:19
    "People don't cause network outages...people who drink coffee do!"
  • Mr. Spock 2008-12-11 11:22
    "A difference which makes no difference is no difference."

    Yup, we know the difference between routers and switches. We also don't need to prop up our fragile egos by pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference. How's that for a WTF?

    CAPTCHA: saluto. We saluto all the pedants in the TDWTF community.
  • DOA 2008-12-11 11:23
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?
    Nominated for this week's nitpicking award.
    Mr. Spock:
    pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference
    This is the first time I've seen TDWTF forums so accurately described in so few words.
  • some noob 2008-12-11 11:40
    DOA:
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?
    Nominated for this week's nitpicking award.
    Mr. Spock:
    pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference
    This is the first time I've seen TDWTF forums so accurately described in so few words.


    actually the originaly statement is correct in the context used. in comparisson to hubs, switches are intelligent.

    also, in comparisson to the ON (original nitpicker), I am intelligent.
  • Voodoo Coder 2008-12-11 11:40
    Mr. Spock:
    We also don't need to prop up our fragile egos by pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference. How's that for a WTF?


    Pedantic harping makes up at least 1/3rd of the posting here, on a slow day. Heck, just look at the thread from a few days ago that takes a page and a half to discuss whether "IBM" qualifies as an acronym, or it is just a meager abbreviation.

    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...

  • Satanicpuppy 2008-12-11 11:41
    I was trying to trace down a network problem in this old building once. Ancient coax, strata of cat3,4,and 5, and this crazy muzak system that was so poorly wired that you could shock yourself touching the volume knobs.

    I went to the central switch and started testing lines. Never could find the exact line my repeater was on, probably because about 1 in 10 lines played muzak right out of the tone wand, from the ethernet lines being laid across the tops of the speakers in the ceiling.

    Can't imagine what the problem was.
  • Voodoo Coder 2008-12-11 11:42
    some noob:


    also, in comparisson to the ON (original nitpicker), I am intelligent.


    Glad you found a bar low enough to fit under...

    (Sorry, you set that one up way to pretty to leave be)
  • Andy Goth 2008-12-11 11:43
    Voodoo Coder:
    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...
    Only nerds wonder that. Ordinary people already know.
  • Quango 2008-12-11 11:44
    Ali Bongo:
    Quango:
    > coffee coinsurer

    WTF!

    What, you only single-source your coffee insurance?

    You have to co-insure your coffee for that genuine double safe taste.


    Why did they delete my comment? Are you censoring comments now to avoid embarrassment??

    From Mark - Whoops! Actually, I had meant to add a "fixed!" but ended up hitting the delete.
  • Asiago Chow 2008-12-11 11:46
    Coffee DRINKS should be banned. I actually kinda like chocolate covered espresso beans.

    I'm convinced working with 10base2 was a bigger cause of PTSD than the first gulf war and the Jackson 5 combined. That stuff bred nightmares. every install had some solid core coax, some RG-59, three terminators (?????), coax taped to a wall somewhere, cable draped (unprotected) across rooftops, and that's just a short list. They all had "bad net days" nobody understood. They all penalized everyone for individual mistakes.

    It is a shame so few today have experienced the joys of multidrop coaxial network topologies. My opinions about collectivism (socialism, communism, et cetera) were forged in the fire of 10base2 network hell. That single cable threading through everybody's life really showed how fragile an overly interconnected world would be. One person's innocent failure would cause all to suffer. One little mistake...the choice of solid core instead of tinned stranded core, would degrade all lives. One nervous tic... someone shifting a cable or fiddling with a connector, would cost so much. When you were using 10base2 you were part of a collective in the purest meaning of the word.

    Interconnected means fragile.
  • jim 2008-12-11 11:56
    Quango:
    Ali Bongo:
    Quango:
    > coffee coinsurer

    WTF!

    What, you only single-source your coffee insurance?

    You have to co-insure your coffee for that genuine double safe taste.


    Why did they delete my comment? Are you censoring comments now to avoid embarrassment??


    I'm afraid that they seem to delete comments in here a lot, too much if you ask me ~ I'm considering giving it up ~ and it's not as if the comments that get deleted are offensive or anything
  • CaRL 2008-12-11 12:02
    Asiago Chow:
    Interconnected means fragile.

    Congratulations, you explained the cause of the global economic troubles in just three words!

    But let's just keep building bigger corporations, bigger governments, bigger bailouts, bigger plans and programs. What (more) could go wrong?
  • CaRL 2008-12-11 12:04
    jim:
    I'm afraid that they seem to delete comments in here a lot, too much if you ask me ~ I'm considering giving it up ~ and it's not as if the comments that get deleted are offensive or anything

    The random comment deleter uses the same WTF algorithm as the random blue hilighter.
  • danixdefcon5 2008-12-11 12:05
    Asiago Chow:
    Coffee DRINKS should be banned. I actually kinda like chocolate covered espresso beans.

    I'm convinced working with 10base2 was a bigger cause of PTSD than the first gulf war and the Jackson 5 combined. That stuff bred nightmares. every install had some solid core coax, some RG-59, three terminators (?????), coax taped to a wall somewhere, cable draped (unprotected) across rooftops, and that's just a short list. They all had "bad net days" nobody understood. They all penalized everyone for individual mistakes.

    It is a shame so few today have experienced the joys of multidrop coaxial network topologies. My opinions about collectivism (socialism, communism, et cetera) were forged in the fire of 10base2 network hell. That single cable threading through everybody's life really showed how fragile an overly interconnected world would be. One person's innocent failure would cause all to suffer. One little mistake...the choice of solid core instead of tinned stranded core, would degrade all lives. One nervous tic... someone shifting a cable or fiddling with a connector, would cost so much. When you were using 10base2 you were part of a collective in the purest meaning of the word.

    Interconnected means fragile.
    Worked with 10base2 back in 1991-1993, and I really have to agree with that. That installation involved a very long coax cable going thru the roof, which fortunately didn't have much problems.

    The endpoint connections, however, would frequently disconnect, and I had to go through all the PC's, checking which one was the first to have NE2000 errors.

    Oh my, you just brought back nightmares!
  • TarquinWJ 2008-12-11 12:06
    Any other ex-BNC-ethernet users looking at that stock photo and thinking "Aargh! Unterminated connectors, no wonder half of the computers can't connect, and the other half are dropping 70% of their packets."?
  • Leo 2008-12-11 12:12
    Voodoo Coder:
    Mr. Spock:
    We also don't need to prop up our fragile egos by pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference. How's that for a WTF?


    Pedantic harping makes up at least 1/3rd of the posting here, on a slow day. Heck, just look at the thread from a few days ago that takes a page and a half to discuss whether "IBM" qualifies as an acronym, or it is just a meager abbreviation.

    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...



    Who thinks IBM is an acronym? Obviously it isn't. Not sure why that takes a page and a half.
  • Anonymous 2008-12-11 12:25
    Leo:
    Voodoo Coder:
    Mr. Spock:
    <snip>
    Pedantic harping makes up at least 1/3rd of the posting here, on a slow day. Heck, just look at the thread from a few days ago that takes a page and a half to discuss whether "IBM" qualifies as an acronym, or it is just a meager abbreviation.

    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...

    Who thinks IBM is an acronym? Obviously it isn't. Not sure why that takes a page and a half.

    GOD NO, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? DUCK AND COVER!!!
  • sep332 2008-12-11 12:26
    "And people wonder why us nerds get picked on... "

    Obviously you meant "And people wonder why WE nerds get picked on... "
  • WhiskeyJack 2008-12-11 12:29
    Gosh, here I thought that the rhythmic "thump thump thump" noise was going to signify something quite different.

    Oops.
  • JD 2008-12-11 12:32
    This is why I'm a tea drinker. Well, this and the fact that I'm in England and over here it's actually the law.
  • notromda 2008-12-11 12:35
    sep332:
    "And people wonder why us nerds get picked on... "

    Obviously you meant "And people wonder why WE nerds get picked on... "


    I'm thinking, "And people wonder why YOU nerds get picked on... "

    ;)
  • num 2008-12-11 12:36
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    There's packets inside the frames. Why does everybody need to know about the technical details of the second layer?
  • Lars Vargas 2008-12-11 12:38
    Who thinks IBM is an acronym? Obviously it isn't. Not sure why that takes a page and a half.

    I thought IBM was a company. :)

    BNC connectors cause me nightmares. In the early 90's, in Central Florida, in the middle of summer I was tasked to install network cable in a house trailer used as an office. The only way to easily do this, avoiding going through walls, was to crawl under the trailer and use holes drilled through the floor.

    Knowing the cables would be outside and that they had metal connectors, the owner exercised his right of paranoia and wanted all external connectors sealed. His solution was to use expanding foam in a bag with the connector stuck in the in the middle. (Don't ask.)

    I pointed out the problem with this, mainly inaccessibility to the connectors if anything went wrong, but he insisted. Whatever. I just wanted to get it done and get out of there.

    I did my best, but that expanding foam was nasty, sticky stuff. I got it all over me. Including stuck in the hair on my arms (I hadn't thought about wearing long sleeves). After the 2nd or 3rd cable, the burning started. I realized that I had rolled over a nest of red fire ants. And they were getting into the foam, which pissed them off considerably. Instinctively, I tried to brush them away, but that only spread the sticky foam and angered the ants further. It also cemented them to me, most within biting distance.

    Oh and did I mention the crawl space was big enough for me lie down, but not sit up, much less crawl? Yeah, it was a tight fit, which didn't help my claustrophobia much. So here I am, in a crawlspace under a trailer on my back, foam in my arm hairs, angry biting ants glued to me, trying to figure out where the drilled holes are for this cable I've got to install. It was easily a five-minute "scoot" to the edge of the trailer to get out.

    Which I did, as quickly as I could.

    I got about half done with the "external" wiring and told the owner that he'd have to get someone else to do the rest, but I could direct them. And he did.

    Oddly enough the "sealed bag" topology worked for a number of years without issue and was used until the old 386 workstations were replaced with newer machines that had RJ-45 connectors and used a switch. This time the trailer was wired from the inside.
  • Peter 2008-12-11 12:39
    JD:
    This is why I'm a tea drinker. Well, this and the fact that I'm in England and over here it's actually the law.

    And I just thought that it was a good idea...
  • nobody 2008-12-11 12:40
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    Succinctly:

    You are a loser.

    Less so:

    Your standard is that one should not even make reference to function if you cannot correctly and completely describe the underlying machinations. You're not a mechanic, right, so how do you get your car repaired? You're not CIA trained, right? So, how do you cook food? You might be an electrical engineer, so perhaps you can insert electrical plugs because you can cite Ohm's law and drawing a system diagram?

    I'm willing to bet you don't act like this off the intergoogles and cyberwebs, because if you did you would most certainly have your teeth knocked in.
  • Anonymous 2008-12-11 12:40
    jim:
    I'm afraid that they seem to delete comments in here a lot, too much if you ask me ~ I'm considering giving it up ~ and it's not as if the comments that get deleted are offensive or anything

    Come on guys, give the editors a chance to straighten out the articles. If someone notes a typo in the comments then usually the eds will fix the typo and update the comment that mentioned it. It's not a big conspiracy theory, it's just the editors keeping their articles up to scratch. Mark has already said that he deleted the comment in error and meant to just add an editor's note. The regular readers should be perfectly used to this - after all Alex's spelling and grammar almost always needs fixing!! ;)
  • farquat 2008-12-11 12:48

    Same time frame.... I cut my teeth (and often considered my wrists) on Token Ring.

    Loved beaconing adapters.
  • gann 2008-12-11 13:03
    Anonymous:
    Alex's spelling and grammar almost always need fixing


    And yours too, apparently. ;-)

    (couldn't resist)
  • Duke of New York 2008-12-11 13:29
    Asiago Chow:
    MY OPINIONS

    All your co-workers hate you.
  • dpm 2008-12-11 13:35
    Asiago Chow:
    My opinions about collectivism (socialism, communism, et cetera) were forged in the fire of 10base2 network hell. [...] When you were using 10base2 you were part of a collective in the purest meaning of the word.
    Cluefired.
  • Anonymous Coward 2008-12-11 13:37
    "When he emerged and peeked around the corner, he was met with the department's resident coffee expert. He could extol the virtues or curses of every kind of coffee made and every roaster in the area. And as it happened, he had just returned from percolating his morning dose."

    I smell BS. A coffee expert would NEVER percolate their Joe. Percolation requires boiling water and steam which is WAY too hot for proper bean extraction. Plus the liquid repeatedly cycles between the burner and the grounds, over-extruding the beans and burning the coffee. Sheesh, though you could pull one over on us, nice try.
  • Togashi 2008-12-11 13:38
    I definitely read this article expecting quite a different outcome: Java the programming language, not Java the coffee, doing the damage.
  • Addison 2008-12-11 13:43
    That was low :D.
  • ContraCorners 2008-12-11 13:46
    Lars Vargas:
    Who thinks IBM is an acronym? Obviously it isn't. Not sure why that takes a page and a half.

    I thought IBM was a company. :)

    BNC connectors cause me nightmares. In the early 90's, in Central Florida, in the middle of summer I was tasked to install network cable in a house trailer used as an office. The only way to easily do this, avoiding going through walls, was to crawl under the trailer and use holes drilled through the floor.

    Knowing the cables would be outside and that they had metal connectors, the owner exercised his right of paranoia and wanted all external connectors sealed. His solution was to use expanding foam in a bag with the connector stuck in the in the middle. (Don't ask.)

    I pointed out the problem with this, mainly inaccessibility to the connectors if anything went wrong, but he insisted. Whatever. I just wanted to get it done and get out of there.

    I did my best, but that expanding foam was nasty, sticky stuff. I got it all over me. Including stuck in the hair on my arms (I hadn't thought about wearing long sleeves). After the 2nd or 3rd cable, the burning started. I realized that I had rolled over a nest of red fire ants. And they were getting into the foam, which pissed them off considerably. Instinctively, I tried to brush them away, but that only spread the sticky foam and angered the ants further. It also cemented them to me, most within biting distance.

    Oh and did I mention the crawl space was big enough for me lie down, but not sit up, much less crawl? Yeah, it was a tight fit, which didn't help my claustrophobia much. So here I am, in a crawlspace under a trailer on my back, foam in my arm hairs, angry biting ants glued to me, trying to figure out where the drilled holes are for this cable I've got to install. It was easily a five-minute "scoot" to the edge of the trailer to get out.

    Which I did, as quickly as I could.

    I got about half done with the "external" wiring and told the owner that he'd have to get someone else to do the rest, but I could direct them. And he did.

    Oddly enough the "sealed bag" topology worked for a number of years without issue and was used until the old 386 workstations were replaced with newer machines that had RJ-45 connectors and used a switch. This time the trailer was wired from the inside.


    Congratulations, you just reached the coveted Second Place Slot on the list of "Jobs I'm Glad I Don't Have." So far, no one has managed to top my b-school OM professor who once told his class, in some detail, how to clean a rendering plant.

  • Cappuccino wins every time 2008-12-11 13:49
    He's the coffee connoisseur, and he drinks percolated coffee? I think they have bigger problems than BNC connectors!
  • cconroy 2008-12-11 14:11
    CaRL:
    jim:
    I'm afraid that they seem to delete comments in here a lot, too much if you ask me ~ I'm considering giving it up ~ and it's not as if the comments that get deleted are offensive or anything

    The random comment deleter uses the same WTF algorithm as the random blue hilighter.


    What's the over/under on whether that comment gets highlighted or deleted?
  • halcyon1234 2008-12-11 14:51
    tdwtf:

    "Alright! 11:02 a.m...Another five bucks for me!"

    If it wasn't for the betting pool line, I would have thought that Ricky made $300 an hour, and just shouted this out every minute.

    "11:03 a.m! Another five bucks for me, bitches! Lick the contract. Liiiiiiiick it!"
  • Franz Kafka 2008-12-11 15:17
    Cappuccino wins every time:
    He's the coffee connoisseur, and he drinks percolated coffee? I think they have bigger problems than BNC connectors!


    Sure he is, just ask him!
  • swordfishBob 2008-12-11 15:32
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    Of more importance in this story, is hubs (or "multi-port repeaters"). They don't repeat packets. They repeat electrical signals. That means incomplete and mangled packets pass through in their incomplete or mangled state. It also means an unterminated segment causing a reflection can make every transmission appear as a collision, which is then also repeated back to the other segments and no-one can transmit anything successfully. Some MPRs would isolate an unterminated segment, but still have a fault briefly while the segment went bad, such as when Mr Coffee kicked the cable.
  • Peter 2008-12-11 15:48
    Asiago Chow:
    Coffee DRINKS should be banned. I actually kinda like chocolate covered espresso beans.

    I'm convinced working with 10base2 was a bigger cause of PTSD than the first gulf war and the Jackson 5 combined. That stuff bred nightmares. every install had some solid core coax, some RG-59, three terminators (?????), coax taped to a wall somewhere, cable draped (unprotected) across rooftops, and that's just a short list. They all had "bad net days" nobody understood. They all penalized everyone for individual mistakes.

    It is a shame so few today have experienced the joys of multidrop coaxial network topologies. My opinions about collectivism (socialism, communism, et cetera) were forged in the fire of 10base2 network hell. That single cable threading through everybody's life really showed how fragile an overly interconnected world would be. One person's innocent failure would cause all to suffer. One little mistake...the choice of solid core instead of tinned stranded core, would degrade all lives. One nervous tic... someone shifting a cable or fiddling with a connector, would cost so much. When you were using 10base2 you were part of a collective in the purest meaning of the word.

    Interconnected means fragile.


    You've never worked with Token Ring, then, have you?

    Token Ring is what you'll find interconnecting the Devil's computers in the seventh level of Hell. It is an abomination. And 16 megabit, twisted pair Token Ring, is the nightmare of nightmares.

    Thanks for letting me vent. Shared media sucks, but Token Ring sucks and is 3x more expensive than its 10/100BASE-T counterpart.
  • Peter 2008-12-11 15:50
    farquat:

    Same time frame.... I cut my teeth (and often considered my wrists) on Token Ring.

    Loved beaconing adapters.


    Ahhh...a kindred spirit.

    Token Ring sucks!
  • Spectere 2008-12-11 16:48
    halcyon1234:
    If it wasn't for the betting pool line, I would have thought that Ricky made $300 an hour, and just shouted this out every minute.

    *snicker* I thought the same thing when I first read that. :P
  • anothercontractor 2008-12-11 16:51
    Peter:

    You've never worked with Token Ring, then, have you?

    Token Ring is what you'll find interconnecting the Devil's computers in the seventh level of Hell. It is an abomination. And 16 megabit, twisted pair Token Ring, is the nightmare of nightmares.

    Thanks for letting me vent. Shared media sucks, but Token Ring sucks and is 3x more expensive than its 10/100BASE-T counterpart.


    At one contract job I had, they had problems with their token-ring network. Not only was the cable run pretty much over the maxiumum recommended length (100m IIRC), but the installers had run it down the inside of the elevator shaft instead of drilling a hole for it in a wiring closet somewhere. So when the elevator went by with a full load, the network would occasionally have a teensy weensy outage and all the connected PS/2s would have to reboot.
  • Duke of New York 2008-12-11 17:15
    Peter:
    You've never worked with Token Ring, then, have you?

    Token Ring is what you'll find interconnecting the Devil's computers in the seventh level of Hell. It is an abomination. And 16 megabit, twisted pair Token Ring, is the nightmare of nightmares.

    Thanks for letting me vent. Shared media sucks, but Token Ring sucks and is 3x more expensive than its 10/100BASE-T counterpart.

    Nonsense! What's good for IBM is good for the industry.
  • Pedantic Pedant Peda Pe 2008-12-11 17:16
    Voodoo Coder:
    Mr. Spock:
    We also don't need to prop up our fragile egos by pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference. How's that for a WTF?


    Pedantic harping makes up at least 1/3rd of the posting here, on a slow day. Heck, just look at the thread from a few days ago that takes a page and a half to discuss whether "IBM" qualifies as an acronym, or it is just a meager abbreviation.

    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...



    Shouldn't that be meagre (although I notice dictionary.com likes meager - maybe this is another Yanks vs the rest of the world...)?

    Although, I suspect you might have meant mere?

    </troll>
  • not nobody 2008-12-11 17:21
    nobody:
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    Succinctly:

    You are a loser.

    Less so:

    Your standard is that one should not even make reference to function if you cannot correctly and completely describe the underlying machinations. You're not a mechanic, right, so how do you get your car repaired? You're not CIA trained, right? So, how do you cook food? You might be an electrical engineer, so perhaps you can insert electrical plugs because you can cite Ohm's law and drawing a system diagram?

    I'm willing to bet you don't act like this off the intergoogles and cyberwebs, because if you did you would most certainly have your teeth knocked in.


    Wha you haying awout my eef?

    (and did I miss te reference about needing to be CIA trained to cook food???????
  • undrline 2008-12-11 17:23
    Lars Vargas:
    Who thinks IBM is an acronym? Obviously it isn't. Not sure why that takes a page and a half.

    I thought IBM was a company. :)

    BNC connectors cause me nightmares. In the early 90's, in Central Florida, in the middle of summer I was tasked to install network cable in a house trailer used as an office. The only way to easily do this, avoiding going through walls, was to crawl under the trailer and use holes drilled through the floor.

    Knowing the cables would be outside and that they had metal connectors, the owner exercised his right of paranoia and wanted all external connectors sealed. His solution was to use expanding foam in a bag with the connector stuck in the in the middle. (Don't ask.)

    I pointed out the problem with this, mainly inaccessibility to the connectors if anything went wrong, but he insisted. Whatever. I just wanted to get it done and get out of there.

    I did my best, but that expanding foam was nasty, sticky stuff. I got it all over me. Including stuck in the hair on my arms (I hadn't thought about wearing long sleeves). After the 2nd or 3rd cable, the burning started. I realized that I had rolled over a nest of red fire ants. And they were getting into the foam, which pissed them off considerably. Instinctively, I tried to brush them away, but that only spread the sticky foam and angered the ants further. It also cemented them to me, most within biting distance.

    Oh and did I mention the crawl space was big enough for me lie down, but not sit up, much less crawl? Yeah, it was a tight fit, which didn't help my claustrophobia much. So here I am, in a crawlspace under a trailer on my back, foam in my arm hairs, angry biting ants glued to me, trying to figure out where the drilled holes are for this cable I've got to install. It was easily a five-minute "scoot" to the edge of the trailer to get out.

    Which I did, as quickly as I could.

    I got about half done with the "external" wiring and told the owner that he'd have to get someone else to do the rest, but I could direct them. And he did.

    Oddly enough the "sealed bag" topology worked for a number of years without issue and was used until the old 386 workstations were replaced with newer machines that had RJ-45 connectors and used a switch. This time the trailer was wired from the inside.


    Okay, this brought back some nightmares. Not to do with coax . . . I was running phone wire. I was doing this in the rain and there was a rottweiler mutt that preferred under the warm trailer to being in his doghouse in the rain. When I took the old wiring out, I attached a string and pulled, then reattached it to the new wire and pulled it back through. Probably one of the wiser things I've done, since I'm not a wiring technician. I tucked the wiring into the skirt-siding rather than having to spend more time underneath the trailer with the dog than I had to. I'd say fire ants and foam would've been worse.
  • dsh 2008-12-11 17:31
    not nobody:

    (and did I miss te reference about needing to be CIA trained to cook food???????


    Culinary Institute of America
  • fourchan 2008-12-11 17:33
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    If they direct frames, then they also direct packets.

    This would be like saying "The pizza delivery service doesn't deliver pizza. It delivers a car. (which contains a driver and a pizza)".
  • undrline 2008-12-11 17:35
  • Franz Kafka 2008-12-11 17:39
    Peter:

    You've never worked with Token Ring, then, have you?

    Token Ring is what you'll find interconnecting the Devil's computers in the seventh level of Hell. It is an abomination. And 16 megabit, twisted pair Token Ring, is the nightmare of nightmares.

    Thanks for letting me vent. Shared media sucks, but Token Ring sucks and is 3x more expensive than its 10/100BASE-T counterpart.


    My favorite is when you plug in a card configured to 4m on a 16m network - it doesn't isolate the card, it crashes the network :) Also, those things got _warm_.
  • Spanky McMuffin 2008-12-11 17:39
    fourchan:
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    If they direct frames, then they also direct packets.

    This would be like saying "The pizza delivery service doesn't deliver pizza. It delivers a car. (which contains a driver and a pizza)".


    Y'all do realize this pegr fallow couldn't be righter if the king of all right things personally knighted him with his big sword of rightness, right? I mean, it's fun making fun of him for being a pedant and all, but pretty soon it begins to look suspiciously like belligerent ignorance on your part.

    clue: media headers ain't protocol headers.
  • Benedict 2008-12-11 18:21
    He should have just used C-Pound instead of Java.
  • fourchan 2008-12-11 19:00
    Spanky McMuffin:
    fourchan:
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    If they direct frames, then they also direct packets.

    This would be like saying "The pizza delivery service doesn't deliver pizza. It delivers a car. (which contains a driver and a pizza)".


    Y'all do realize this pegr fallow couldn't be righter if the king of all right things personally knighted him with his big sword of rightness, right? I mean, it's fun making fun of him for being a pedant and all, but pretty soon it begins to look suspiciously like belligerent ignorance on your part.

    clue: media headers ain't protocol headers.


    Pizzas don't have headers. They have toppings!
  • SurturZ 2008-12-11 19:06
    Brilliant red herring heading today
  • iToad 2008-12-11 19:18
    Mentioning 10base2 thinwire still causes bad flashbacks. I once traced a network problem down to a defective 50 Ohm terminator. It had exactly one electronic part in it (a 51 Ohm resistor to be exact), and that one part decided to fail open.
  • Franz Kafka 2008-12-11 20:14
    Spanky McMuffin:

    Y'all do realize this pegr fallow couldn't be righter if the king of all right things personally knighted him with his big sword of rightness, right? I mean, it's fun making fun of him for being a pedant and all, but pretty soon it begins to look suspiciously like belligerent ignorance on your part.

    clue: media headers ain't protocol headers.


    So what? The whole point of pedantry is that you're technically right, but you're correcting something that isn't actually a point of confusion for anyone. So what if switches direct frames and not packets? They don't change media, and this is ethernet, so frame == packet + headers and 1 insertion crap, which basically means that 'switches switch packets' is just fine for most uses.
  • Ex-Navy Dude 2008-12-11 20:27
    Lars Vargas:

    BNC connectors cause me nightmares.


    Oh God - I though I had banished my painful memories of this, too... I'm getting flashbacks... The horror... One bad connector and BAM no one's working.

    Can I sue the manufacturers for PTSD?
  • Some Random Sign in Name 2008-12-11 21:40
    Cappuccino wins every time:
    He's the coffee connoisseur, and he drinks percolated coffee? I think they have bigger problems than BNC connectors!
    You're thinking of percolation as in made in a percolator (one of the worst ways to prepare coffee), however most coffee brewing methods including espresso and drip preparations also involve percolation. A coffee expert would know this.
  • Draco 2008-12-11 22:50
    some noob:

    actually the originaly statement is correct in the context used. in comparisson to hubs, switches are intelligent.

    also, in comparisson to the ON (original nitpicker), I am intelligent.


    Only that part of the statement is correct. It would have been 100% right if it only said switches are more intelligent.

    The part that makes it wrong is when he says "route packets to the appropriate destination."

    Switches don't route, switches forward according to an algorithm.


    This would be forgivable if the subject of the discussion weren't the network itself.

    Usually when you make an article specifically about a subject, it's a good idea to get the details of that subject correct.

    It's not a minor nit, it's something completely wrong like saying...

    Unlike a bicycle which is manually powered by pedals, a motorcycle is automatically driven by an engine, and
    has four doors.




  • asifyoucare 2008-12-12 00:30
    The problem was not the coffee drinker. The problem was the positioning of connectors where people's feet were - yet it doesn't read like that.


  • Real-modo 2008-12-12 00:37
    Benedict:
    He should have just used C-Pound instead of Java.
    DeCaf?? The horror!
  • Kuba 2008-12-12 01:50
    Someone Important:
    And that's why coffee should be banned!
    Coffee drinkers should be arrested, no less! Farters too!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/24/13-year-old-student-arres_n_146222.html

    Cheers!
  • mickeyding 2008-12-12 02:29
    I struck something very similar a number of years ago. Every morning a secretary would boot her machine and play a round of solitaire during her coffee break and then shut down the machine again. The trouble was it was using a static IP address that was the same as the unix server. She was so darned quick at solitaire that the outage would only last a couple of minutes and it would be right for the rest of the day. We eventually noticed her powering up the offending PC and then turning it off again after a few minutes and we put two and two together. For her normal day to day work she would be using a dumb terminal via a serial cable into the server.
  • Theo 2008-12-12 02:40
    Is it like you know so difficult to consult a dictionary, made by, like, the people who studied this stuff and shit? Let Merriam-Webster enlighten you:


    Main Entry:
    ac·ro·nym
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈa-krə-ˌnim\
    Function:
    noun
    Etymology:
    acr- + -onym
    Date:
    1943
    A word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term ; also : an abbreviation

    So: an acronym is also an abbreviation according to the lexicographers (Oxford concurs, BTW). EOD.
  • blunder 2008-12-12 02:57
    nobody:
    pegr:
    "unlike switches, which intelligently route packets to the appropriate destination"

    No. Switches direct frames. Routers route packets. Yes, people who don't know any better use the terms incorrectly, but we know better, right?


    Succinctly:

    You are a loser.

    Less so:

    Your standard is that one should not even make reference to function if you cannot correctly and completely describe the underlying machinations. You're not a mechanic, right, so how do you get your car repaired? You're not CIA trained, right? So, how do you cook food? You might be an electrical engineer, so perhaps you can insert electrical plugs because you can cite Ohm's law and drawing a system diagram?

    I'm willing to bet you don't act like this off the intergoogles and cyberwebs, because if you did you would most certainly have your teeth knocked in.


    Wow, are you guys done jumping down his or her throat? Switches don't route, they switch. Routers route. Seems like it would be obvious. And mildly on-topic, given the site's (and the article's) focus.

    I don't understand why that, of all things, is what brought out all the poptart-fueled rage. Is it because of all the coders here that hate their IT guys?
  • captain obvious 2008-12-12 03:36
    Did anyone else think that the problem was someone going at it near some network equipment, particularly after the thump thump noises?
  • Mr B 2008-12-12 04:13
    Theo:
    Is it like you know so difficult to consult a dictionary, made by, like, the people who studied this stuff and shit? Let Merriam-Webster enlighten you:


    Main Entry:
    ac·ro·nym
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈa-krə-ˌnim\
    Function:
    noun
    Etymology:
    acr- + -onym
    Date:
    1943
    A word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term ; also : an abbreviation

    So: an acronym is also an abbreviation according to the lexicographers (Oxford concurs, BTW). EOD.


    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)
  • Alenx 2008-12-12 04:55
    impendence -> impedance
  • Anonymous 2008-12-12 05:43
    Theo:
    ...EOD.
    You wish. So do I but we're both going to be out of luck.
  • DOA 2008-12-12 06:41
    On a completely pointless and unrelated note, if you get your hands on a lot of the connectors like the ones in the picture, you can use them as makeshift lego bricks when things are slow.
    I speak from experience.
  • Theo 2008-12-12 06:59
    Mr B:
    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)


    I used "is" as in: a cow is an animal, the way normal people use it. So that implies that not all abbreviations have to be acronyms.

    Exercise for the reader: find an abbreviation that is not an acronym and post it to /dev/null.
  • Mr B 2008-12-12 08:09
    Theo:
    Mr B:
    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)


    I used "is" as in: a cow is an animal, the way normal people use it. So that implies that not all abbreviations have to be acronyms.

    Exercise for the reader: find an abbreviation that is not an acronym and post it to /dev/null.


    In that case you've missed the point of the argument, congratulations!

  • Voodoo Coder 2008-12-12 08:15
    Voodoo Coder:
    Mr. Spock:
    We also don't need to prop up our fragile egos by pedantically harping on the contextually-trivial difference. How's that for a WTF?


    Pedantic harping makes up at least 1/3rd of the posting here, on a slow day. Heck, just look at the thread from a few days ago that takes a page and a half to discuss whether "IBM" qualifies as an acronym, or it is just a meager abbreviation.

    And people wonder why us nerds get picked on...



    And judging by the conversation that has ensued since this post...well, I just have one thing to say:

    Q.E.D.
  • Charles 2008-12-12 08:17
    Java doesn't take down networks... people do.

    CAPTCHA- saepius: The oozing genital sore discovered after a drunken night in Tijuana.
  • Someone You Know 2008-12-12 09:29
    not nobody:

    (and did I miss te reference about needing to be CIA trained to cook food???????


    Culinary Institute of America.
  • Spoe 2008-12-12 09:53
    Had a manager once that managed to bring down our thinnet twice.

    The first time, when he left for the day he took his laptop with him with his network adapter and the t-connector. And, of course, he was the first on the line.

    The second was when he decided to tidy his office and to organize the coax he stuck thumbtacks through them. Yep, Coax really likes that.
  • alegr 2008-12-12 11:32
    Anonymous Coward:


    I smell BS. A coffee expert would NEVER percolate their Joe. Percolation requires boiling water and steam which is WAY too hot for proper bean extraction. Plus the liquid repeatedly cycles between the burner and the grounds, over-extruding the beans and burning the coffee. Sheesh, though you could pull one over on us, nice try.

    I guess that's just a figure of speech. Those office coffee machines with filters don't percolate. Water in them is far from boiling, either, I'd guess not higher 80C. It takes like a 40 seconds in microwave to bring a cup of their hot water to boil.
  • Dan 2008-12-12 12:10
    LOL Beautiful story :)

    I have managed to bury my BNC-traumas under layers of alcohol-induced fog, but stories like this still cause involuntary tears.
  • Ricky Fine 2008-12-12 12:15
    CRAWLSPACES!!! AAAAHHH!!!! I tapped into the main water supply line under my house in one of those crawl spaces but couldn't finish the job. My wife was okay without water until the next afternoon when I got home from work to finish the job, but not longer with kids in the house. That was all okay except the next day was the Loma Prieta earthquake and it was somewhat disturbing when the aftershocks made the beam my chest was squeezed under tremble! I almost made my own water supply.
  • Ricky Fine 2008-12-12 12:17
    You're right. That was added by the editor. They were 1 cup cones with filters. The company was run by doctors who kept the sick time rate down by making everything single use.
  • Lafcadio 2008-12-12 12:42
    Apropos of the picture accompanying this article, I used to work for a school district in the upper Midwestern US, and a small portion of our network was still using BNC connectors like the ones pictured. We all had to carry a few around with us, and I chained mine together and hung them off a loop on my jacket.

    I got hauled before a review board--A REVIEW BOARD!--because a teacher in one of my schools complained that I was carrying around a crack pipe on my jacket.
  • Derek 2008-12-12 14:56
    In the mid to late 90's I did lot of peer-to-peer networking with LanTastic. All sorts of freaky stuff would happen like this... Make me glad to be a programmer now... at least I can sit in my chair and find the bugs...

    Derek
  • Wyrd 2008-12-12 15:02
    And that, kiddies, is why we don't use networks with physical_topology = "bus".

    --
    Furry cows moo and decompress.
  • Anonymous Coward 2008-12-12 15:54
    WHAT?!? Who does this moron troll think he is!? We'll just see what dictionary dot cooo... ...well damn...I....Learned something...
  • csm 2008-12-12 17:24
    Mr B:
    Theo:
    Mr B:
    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)


    I used "is" as in: a cow is an animal, the way normal people use it. So that implies that not all abbreviations have to be acronyms.

    Exercise for the reader: find an abbreviation that is not an acronym and post it to /dev/null.


    In that case you've missed the point of the argument, congratulations!



    And apparently you don't understand that (If A then B) != (If B then A). Congratulations!
  • Alexis de Torquemada 2008-12-13 04:22
    Voodoo Coder:
    (Sorry, you set that one up way to pretty to leave be)


    I think you forgot an 'o' somewhere, Vodo Coder. I'm sorry, too. :->
  • Textrix 2008-12-13 09:00
    Intelligent people know that 'comparison' has ONE 'S', dude......
  • Monzo 2008-12-14 19:55
    Oh man, coax brings back memories...

    Right before it was replaced by UTP at our universitey, the whole network was a very brittle piece of work. Good thing was that if there was a problem only one segment was offline (end good news)..

    I distinctly remember trying to solve a network problem one day in an offline segment; knocking on a professor's door, explaining what I was doing and immediately taking her offline. Her response: "Hey, I didn't save that yet! How rude..." I tried to explain but left it alone after 3 minutes because she definitely wasn't going to listen to a mere helpdesker!

    Ignorance like that still brings a smile to my face; take away the thumbs and her kind would have probably been extinct by now...
  • Steve 2008-12-15 00:23
    I totally agree. Given this was largely an exercise in troubleshooting network connections (HINT : The packet sniffer couldn't find any problems - hence it was either frames or electrical signals) then this deliniation is completely justified.

    Given my limited knowledge of programming wouldn't it be like me saying a class is the same as a method.

    Captcha - Quibus - A bus full of quibbles (justified or not)


  • Mr B 2008-12-15 03:11
    csm:
    Mr B:
    Theo:
    Mr B:
    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)


    I used "is" as in: a cow is an animal, the way normal people use it. So that implies that not all abbreviations have to be acronyms.

    Exercise for the reader: find an abbreviation that is not an acronym and post it to /dev/null.


    In that case you've missed the point of the argument, congratulations!



    And apparently you don't understand that (If A then B) != (If B then A). Congratulations!


    I understand commutative logic, thank you - seeing as *I* raised it in the first place.

    Another one who has just missed the point of the discussion.

    Tip: If you're going to wade in and try and be clever, it helps if you are actually clever, otherwise you just end up looking like an idiot.
  • Anonymous 2008-12-15 10:59
    Mr B:
    csm:
    Mr B:
    Theo:
    Mr B:
    Erm, yes an acronym is a type of abbreviation, but not all abbreviations are acronyms. Acronyms are a sub-set of abbreviations.

    Perhaps you should have looked up "commutative logic" whilst studying the dictionary.

    :)


    I used "is" as in: a cow is an animal, the way normal people use it. So that implies that not all abbreviations have to be acronyms.

    Exercise for the reader: find an abbreviation that is not an acronym and post it to /dev/null.


    In that case you've missed the point of the argument, congratulations!



    And apparently you don't understand that (If A then B) != (If B then A). Congratulations!


    I understand commutative logic, thank you - seeing as *I* raised it in the first place.

    Another one who has just missed the point of the discussion.

    Tip: If you're going to wade in and try and be clever, it helps if you are actually clever, otherwise you just end up looking like an idiot.
    God I hate you people.
  • ME 2008-12-15 11:57
    Our NOC had a problem like that. At 6pm every day. It turned out that the janitor plugged in his vacuum cleaner every evening into an outlet our router was on.

    Also I know of a BMV that had a degraded connection when it rained. Telco wiring at its best!

    p.s. I love coffee.
  • test tester 2008-12-15 12:53
    testes
  • test tester 2008-12-15 13:03
    testes
  • Kuba 2008-12-15 16:43
    ME:
    Also I know of a BMV that had a degraded connection when it rained. Telco wiring at its best!
    Just like my lab right now: after long-ish rain, our T1 goes down. Last time they supposedly "fixed" it by replacing a repeater, but I don't keep my fingers crossed. In the last 2 years, our T1 has been down longer than the "el-cheapo" WoW service I get at home (TV+internet+phone delivered over coax). I'm almost thinking of getting WoW at work, getting our old phone numbers from XO via VOIP, and just sticking with that. Plus we'd have something to show on our unused HDTV sitting in the lobby.

    Cheers!
  • Chris 2008-12-15 23:37
    Kuba:
    ME:
    Also I know of a BMV that had a degraded connection when it rained. Telco wiring at its best!
    Just like my lab right now: after long-ish rain, our T1 goes down. Last time they supposedly "fixed" it by replacing a repeater, but I don't keep my fingers crossed. In the last 2 years, our T1 has been down longer than the "el-cheapo" WoW service I get at home (TV+internet+phone delivered over coax). I'm almost thinking of getting WoW at work, getting our old phone numbers from XO via VOIP, and just sticking with that. Plus we'd have something to show on our unused HDTV sitting in the lobby.

    Cheers!
    Ugh, XO is the worst telecommunications company I've ever had the disservice of being serviced by. People usually like to have a T1 because of the low latency that they are known for (after all you have a dedicated line to the CO and you're paying $600 a month, so you kind of expect a high quality of service).

    It took them 3 months to fix a peering issue that caused all of our data traffic to be routed across the country and back. I had numerous conversations with various "technicians" who were mostly clueless as to what was going on. I provided them with trace routes showing that packets were being routed from San Antonio (where our office was) to Dallas, then Chicago, then Washington D.C., then Atlanta, then back to Dallas (where some of our servers were located), but they insisted that it wasn't a problem with their routing, but a problem with our equipment. Even sending data to "close" servers a few miles away, or between my apartment and the office (less than 5 miles away), resulted in routes through DC, Chicago, or LA.

    I tried to explain to the tech on the phone that they had a serious routing/peering issue and inquired as to whether or not a router at a peering point was down. Surely, I said, they peered with Level 3 (the bandwidth provider we used in Dallas) in Dallas? No, I was told, they did not peer with Level 3 in Dallas, but did peer with them in Chicago, LA, DC, and Houston.

    But that wasn't the problem, according to the fine folks at XO. First they decided that the 130ms latency was because of a bad router, not the traversal of packets across the fucking country. Then after doing extended testing on the router, they decided that the problem was a wiring issue at the D-Mark. They sent a technician out and he couldn't find anything wrong with it. Then they decided that the problem was my router (which I had behind the Cisco 2600 they provided me so that I could do proper traffic shaping on the limited 1.5mbps so that I *could* actually keep good latency on the T1, assuming I could ever get it).

    Finally, a tech told me that what I needed to do was set up BGP on MY router so that I could force certain routes to be taken. I administer the infrastructure for a small office of 15 people; I don't run a fucking datacenter. I should not have to set up BGP to get sub-100ms latencies to reasonably close machines.

    I threatened to cancel our T1 about 3 times during the following 3 months. Eventually, the problem went away and we suddenly had 17ms latencies to Dallas and trace routes that showed our traffic hitting only hops which were geographically "on the way" there.

    XO never explained to me what they fixed. They are a crappy company with a crappy infrastructure and terrible customer service. Fuck XO.
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