• Brian P (unregistered) in reply to travisowens

    I posted this in my blog at http://myvogonpoetry.com/wp/?p=130 a fewweeks ago:

    I, and another guy at work, interviewed someone today for a Java position. So, we’re sitting there talking to him and his cell phone rings. He gets his phone out and presses a button and puts it back. I figure he forgot to turn it off - no biggie. It rings again ~10 minutes later. He presses a button again and puts it back. ~15 minutes later it rings again and he answers it. I hear a woman on the other end ask for him and he asks if she could call back in about an hour. Unbelievable.

    If you are on an interview, show the people you are interviewing with some respect and that you really want the job and turn off your cell phone (or leave it in the car). The only reason we could think of to leave it on would be if your wife is pregnant and expecting to deliver soon and even then I would mention it before the interview starts. In an interview, you want to make the best impression you can and that experience REALLY gave a bad impression.

    Brian


  • (cs) in reply to Ytram

    Ytram:
    John:
    I was doing a telephone interview from my cube just last week when a cow-orker came into my cube and started looking at some old pictures I have.  I turned briefly and angrily hissed "I'm doing a phone interview!" at her.  She happily announced "That's OK, I won't talk to you" and continued leaning over me to look at the pictures!

    I was majorly pissed.  I snatched the photo she was looking at (it was held to the cube bookshelf by a magnet) and flung it violently from my cube.  I was so flustered by the rudeness of the interruption that even after apologizing to the candidate, I still found it hard to concentrate for about the next five minutes.  And afterward, she was mad at me!  Now, a 20-something kid, I'd understand the total lack of manners and common sense.  But a 50-year-old woman?  WTF?


    I'm with dubwai on this one.  You sound like you went psycho on someone doing something that shouldn't disturb you from a phone interview.  If they were chatting with you and what not, then I'd understand being a little pissed, but still throwing crap is never a professional thing to do.

    I'm not saying he doesn't have a valid complaint.  But I would probably have said to the interviewee, "can you please hold for a second" put the phone on mute or hold and said "I'm on the phone with a candidate.  Do yo mind coming back later to look at the pictures?"  If she still didn't leave then I'd be pissed off.  But all it sounds like to me is that he had a sweet (but maybe a little dense) woman looking at his pictures and he "hissed" at her before asking nicely for some privacy.  Maybe the whole picture isn't here but it's seems to be a bit of an overreaction.

  • (cs) in reply to John

    Anonymous:
    dubwai:
    Dude, sorry but that makes you seem like a total psycho.


    Maybe I am.  I was completely focused on trying to concentrate on a staticky long distance call to a non-native-English speaker, and she was physically leaning on me to see this picture, after I had told her I was interviewing someone.

    I'm typically the model of politeness, but I have absolutely zero patience for that kind of rudeness.  Something in me just snapped and I unfortunately responded with as much rudeness as I was given.

    I kind of understand. Sometimes, you just gotta throw something, just to get people's attention.

  • coder (unregistered) in reply to anon

    Anonymous:
    Ytram:
    My project manager had a pretty good interview story.  A month or two before I got hired, they started using a test to give to prospective employees.  It was a hard test, but it was a "low on trivia, high on concept" test over .NET development and OO concepts.  The hard questions didn't necessarily have a correct answer, but were mainly to see how someone would approach a problem.

    The first time they used the test, they handed it to the interviewee and put him in a semi-private room.  Not five minutes later, he came out of the room, handed the test to my PM, claimed that he was no longer interested in the position, and left.  My PM was sold on the usage of tests because he didn't have to spend the next hour figuring out that the guy was worthless.

    If this test is given before an actual interview I would have walked out before even looking at the test.  Unless I'm certain that the job is worth the time investment I'm not going to waste my time.  If that makes me "worthless" then so be it.

    I think it's quite common to give a technical test or at least a phone screen before formal interview. They don't want to waste their time either by interviewing unqualified candidates.

     

  • John (unregistered) in reply to Omnifarious
    Omnifarious:

    I know that this advice is completely unasked for, but might I humbly suggest an alternate course of action next time? I would suggest that you calmly reply "I'm sorry, but I find even the presence of people in my cubicle to be a distraction when I'm trying to talk on the phone. I'd be happy to show them to you later.". If she didn't get the hint then, showing some blatant irritation and anger might be appropriate. Otherwise, someone else pointed out, you just look like a psycho.


    Oh, I totally know what I should have done, my hindsight being 20/20 just like everyone elses.  And under normal circumstances I probably would have been more polite in asking someone to leave.  It was the combination of the intense concentration needed to listen to a non-native speaker on a bad line combined with the physical contact that made me act out plus the fact that (in my mind) I had already asked her once to leave. 

    For the record, it was just a 4x6 paper photo that I flung out the entrance of my cube; it's not like I threw a framed picture or that I threw it directly at her.

    But yeah, I felt really stupid for having reacted that way.
  • (cs) in reply to John
    John:
    For the record, it was just a 4x6 paper photo that I flung out the entrance of my cube; it's not like I threw a framed picture or that I threw it directly at her.


    In all honesty, I was envisioning a framed picture.  The picture in my head involved breaking glass, co-workers screaming, and children crying.  I hereby retract my "psycho" remark.
  • anon (unregistered) in reply to Ytram
    Ytram:

    We're talking about a test that shouldn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes.  If you feel that's not worth your time, then I definitely wouldn't want you as an employee anyways.

    Definitely depends on the content of the test, I've been subjected to some pretty pointless (certification type) tests that probably provide no value to the employer.  That said, I would hopefully know something about the company and be interested in the job prior to being there and would do a test if required.  On the other hand if after the interview and I wasn't interested in the job I wouldn't hang around a do a test.  Interviews after all are a two way street.
  • (cs) in reply to anon
    anon:
    Ytram:

    We're talking about a test that shouldn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes.  If you feel that's not worth your time, then I definitely wouldn't want you as an employee anyways.

    Definitely depends on the content of the test, I've been subjected to some pretty pointless (certification type) tests that probably provide no value to the employer.  That said, I would hopefully know something about the company and be interested in the job prior to being there and would do a test if required.  On the other hand if after the interview and I wasn't interested in the job I wouldn't hang around a do a test.  Interviews after all are a two way street.


    Yeah, this test was basically a "do you actually know .NET or did you just put it on your resume".  It also had a little bit of "do you have problem solving skills" mixed in with it.  It was still a challenging test, but not length at all.  We're talking a single piece of paper, front side only.
  • John (unregistered) in reply to Ytram
    Ytram:
    John:
    For the record, it was just a 4x6 paper photo that I flung out the entrance of my cube; it's not like I threw a framed picture or that I threw it directly at her.


    In all honesty, I was envisioning a framed picture.  The picture in my head involved breaking glass, co-workers screaming, and children crying.  I hereby retract my "psycho" remark.


    Yeah, I was wondering if you guys were getting the wrong impression which is why I bothered to mention it.  If I had actually thrown a framed photo at her, with shurikens of glass flying off in all directions, I'd probably be cooling my heels in the local jail with my new best friend Bubba (and deservedly so.)  But it was just a piece of paper, and I threw it hard enough that she'd have to go chase it (more like throwing a toy to distract a playful dog.)

    But it was still a completely uncalled for reaction.  I should have instead restated my request to something more direct, yet  polite and restrained, like "quit leaning on me and get the effing hell out of my cube.  Pretty please."
  • (cs) in reply to Manni

    Manni:
    @Anonymous Coward: To play the devil's advocate, does that mean you're looking for a job where you can just barely skate by on an 8-hour workday? I'd like to see the place that hires a person who puts THAT on their resume.

    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>it's unreasonable to suggest people work overtime.  if they love the job and are responsible, sure they might work later/weekends.  if they don't, they don't and clock in their 40 hours.  or less.  after a while, they leave if they don't like the job.</FONT>

    Manni:
    And as for non-technical engineering leads, we have plenty of those at my job. That's what happens when you heavily focus on a dying programming language and refuse to adapt to the newer technologies. If they had any real skill, they wouldn't be a manager. They'd be doing REAL work.

    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>this is sadly true.  has anyone ever had a competent manager?</FONT>

    Manni:
    The President of the company was distracted with emails and phone calls? Imagine that. Typically the higher up a person is on the management chain, the more their job revolves around social interaction and less about actual widget production. He was probably making the choice of communicating with potential/existing paying clients rather than dealing with an interviewee. If it were me, I'd pick the guy who's paying the bills.

    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>a company's biggest investment is in its employees, so there's no excuse he couldn't set aside the 15-30 minutes to get to know the candidate.  what he did was rude, and reflects poorly on how he values employees, especially if he's bragging about the long hours they have to work.</FONT>

    Manni:
    Sorry dude, this is the way of the world. At least that place would buy you dinner for staying late.

    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>how kind of them.  i lose out on my personal life and they're out $15.  that does wonders for morale.</FONT>

  • (cs) in reply to Mike G
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    Well, as everybody knows, high profile computer geeks do have a lack of social skills and a strange sense of humor, Therefore I don't think dropping this "Beavis and Butthead" guy was inherently a good idea.


    I would have thrown him out the window.   The guy is obviously an arrogant ass and I wouldn't want to subject my employees to someone like him regardless of his skill.


    I really don't see how that makes him arrogant. Insensitive yes, but not arrogant.

    That "board" interview sounded like it was for a very high position, where working with people is an important part of the job. From someone wanting such a position, you can expect to be more cautious when talking to higher-ups.

    That being said, the CTO still comes over as a bit of a choleric and taking himself too serious. I mean come on, it was just a dumb joke. In his position I'd have informed the interviewee that he just committed a major gaffe and now has to work REALLY hard to still convince hiring wouldn't be a big risk. Let's see how he works his way out of a tight spot and whether he can admit his own errors. Would tell you a lot more about that guy's fitness for a manager position than all the questions you could ask.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous coward
    Anonymous:
    I was being interviewed for a senior development position at a small, but possibly up-and-coming company. I interviewed with their "Director of Engineering" (who as it turned out, didn't have an engineering degree, but a marketing degree.)  .... I like to think that I actually did them a favor by short-circuiting the interview process.


    I had something very similar happen to me.  I went to interview for a programming job.  The manager met me at the door, and escorted me to his office.  On the way to his office we went through a long room that had whiteboard paneling.  In this room were about 20 people sitting at flat tables.  No dividers, no cubes, just flat tables with computers and people sitting on cheap chairs. Lots of noise, no privacy, not even a drawer for anyone to store anything, like your fish scaling knife.

    So we go sit in the guys nice private office, he talks for a while, but I can't even concentrate on what he's saying. Finnaly I break in and ask if the people in that room were his developers.  He says yes they were.  I asked if that was some temporary arrangement, or is that where I would be working.  He starts to go on about how great a big noisy bullpen is, how it worked so well for the four guys who did Doom, how much everyone in there loved working in this big room / hallway.  Did I mention that this room connected to halves of the building, so people in one half had to walk through the development room to get to the other half?

    Any way I just tell that I couldn't work in a place like that, so it would be a waste of his time for me to prolong the interview.  He was very shocked, but we shook hands and I left.

    The recruiter who had set this up went nuts, he called me up and screamed at me. 

    But I'm sorry, I can't work in a 20 person bullpen.  And I don't need the guy with the private office to tell me how wonderful it is to work with 19 other people all crammed into what was really a wide hallway.
  • (cs) in reply to brazzy
    brazzy:
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    Well, as everybody knows, high profile computer geeks do have a lack of social skills and a strange sense of humor, Therefore I don't think dropping this "Beavis and Butthead" guy was inherently a good idea.


    I would have thrown him out the window.   The guy is obviously an arrogant ass and I wouldn't want to subject my employees to someone like him regardless of his skill.


    I really don't see how that makes him arrogant. Insensitive yes, but not arrogant.

    The interviewee was insensitive and the CTO was oversensitive. :-)

    brazzy, I think that you should read about "the geek syndrome", Asperger syndrome:
    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
  • (cs) in reply to John
    Anonymous:
    I was majorly pissed.  I snatched the photo she was looking at (it was held to the cube bookshelf by a magnet) and flung it violently from my cube.

    My rule is, "Never do anything (eg., violently flinging a photo) theat requires more than a little physical energy.  Except for banging that cute new receptionist in the broom closet.
  • Administrator (unregistered) in reply to Omnifarious

    I think it is insane..

     to not be able to manage a phone call and have someone lean on you.

     did she stink? was she ugly? was her belly pressing you against your desk?

     wtf?

    Today I think it is very important to be able to multi task .. kinda like a computer.

     or better yet.. kinda like windows where you spend most of your time idling and a little bit of time processing each of the tasks around you. be realistic .. if it wasnt your mental block of her being there while you talked on the phone then you would have been able to completely ignore her.

     

     Either way, you should apologize and take her out to lunch.

  • Administrator (unregistered) in reply to Omnifarious

    I think it is insane..

     to not be able to manage a phone call and have someone lean on you.

     did she stink? was she ugly? was her belly pressing you against your desk?

     wtf?

    Today I think it is very important to be able to multi task .. kinda like a computer.

     or better yet.. kinda like windows where you spend most of your time idling and a little bit of time processing each of the tasks around you. be realistic .. if it wasnt your mental block of her being there while you talked on the phone then you would have been able to completely ignore her.

     

     Either way, you should apologize and take her out to lunch..

  • (cs) in reply to Thankful

    "I get the impression that the WTF is supposed to be directed at the candidates, but the only people I'm saying WTF?? to when I read them is the interviewers and other staff at the companies. All I can say is that these stories make me incredibly grateful to be working for an incredibly company that values substance over appearance and doesn't think you're an idiot just because you don't precisely follow the unwritten protocols of the suit-and-tie world."

    That was very much my reaction as well. Sure, insulting the interviewers (the B&B one) was probably a mistake, but to get red in the face about it? I think that does more to indicate a lack of professionalism on the part of the interviewer. I would be glad to not have any further relationship with that company.

    I personally wear to an interview what is at the upper end of my regular work attire. So, dockers type slacks and a polo shirt (my regular work attire is t-shirt and sweats). If I ever got a comment like "you know this is a formal interview?" I would say "clearly you care more about interview attire than competent workers, thank you very much for your time, I hope you find a candidate you like", and I would stand up and leave.

    Certainly the lounge-lizard dress is a little extreme, but I would be more concerned about lack of communication skills than lack of wardrobe style.

    I think employers sometimes forget that the interview is a two-way street. It's not just about the candidate showing their qualifications, professionalism, and ability to fit into the company culture ... it's also about the company showing that it has the right focus, culture, and professional environment. I have no problem eliminating the company from my interview pool if they don't live up to my expectations.

  • (cs) in reply to arty
    Anonymous:
    Best interview ever:

    me: I see from your resume that you took a digital signal processing course in college.  Can you tell me a bit about it?
    interviewee: Well it was this ... uh ... class I took.
    me: Well can you explain what you were expected to do in that class?
    interviewee: uh ... process ... digital ... signals?

    My interview partner and I muted the phone just a scant second before busting into furious laughter.


    On the other side, I was once asked in an interview about my drinking problem.  I asked the interviewer why he was asking about that.  He said because of my red cheeks.  I told him that I am a teetotaller (which I am).  I could feel a wave of disbelief.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko

  • (cs) in reply to brazzy
    brazzy:
    That being said, the CTO still comes over as a bit of a choleric and taking himself too serious. I mean come on, it was just a dumb joke. In his position I'd have informed the interviewee that he just committed a major gaffe and now has to work REALLY hard to still convince hiring wouldn't be a big risk. Let's see how he works his way out of a tight spot and whether he can admit his own errors. Would tell you a lot more about that guy's fitness for a manager position than all the questions you could ask.


    It was a stupid joke in a formal situation where one is supposedly trying to make a good impression.  If the candidate is that bad then, what would he be like on a day-to-day basis?  Were I the manager, I would be wary of this candidate, because of my existing staff: good working environment and all that.

    When there are so many candidates, why bother with someone who can not handle a basic social interaction?

    The excuse given by another poster that many computer sorts are that way is irrelevant.  I want someone with at least basic social skills, as well as the technical skills.  We techies complain about the socially-aware ignoramuses.  Well, turnabout is fair play.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko

  • (cs) in reply to Ytram

    "We're talking about a test that shouldn't take more than 15 or 20 minutes.  If you feel that's not worth your time, then I definitely wouldn't want you as an employee anyways."

    For me, it depends on the nature of the test.

    I'm a senior unix sysadmin. If the test is a series of questions that can all be answered with "man (some topic)", then I would let them know that they were probably looking for a junior sysadmin, and thank them for their time.

    If it's a series of questions that ask about high level approaches to problems, and things like that ... then that's a bit more reasonable.

    (our interview questions are more about comparisons of technologies, general approaches to problem solving, etc. we give them a sheet of paper up front, but it's just the list of interview questions we're going to ask them; we give them 10 minutes to look it over, so that they can think about them a little in advance; sometimes we let them pick the order, sometimes we pick the order)

  • (cs) in reply to md2perpe
    md2perpe:
    brazzy:

    I really don't see how that makes him arrogant. Insensitive yes, but not arrogant.

    The interviewee was insensitive and the CTO was oversensitive. :-)

    brazzy, I think that you should read about "the geek syndrome", Asperger syndrome:


    That gets thrown around a lot more often than is warranted by the estimated frequency and symptoms. It pretty clearly seems not to apply in this case, since the mistake was not based on failing to interpret someone's behaviour, but on saying something grossly unfitting for an obviously very formal meeting with people the guy did not know.

    And in any case, if he had it, then that would just mean the decision not to hire him for a job that involves working with people would be entirely correct.

  • anon (unregistered) in reply to Gene Wirchenko

    I used to work for a company that screened their candidates by having them write and compile code on a laptop. The hiring manager just wanted to see if a candidate could actually, well, program and get some idea about ones coding style. It was a simple algorithm something that had to do with finding common elements between 2 arrays, It shouldn't have taken more than 30 min for an average programmer.
    One guy really took his time - well over an hour. Then he asked with a straight face, if he is going to be paid for his programming "services", and his code wasn't even that good. And I don't think he was joking.

  • (cs)

    My favorite comment in an interview (I was the candidate):

    (It's about 15 minutes into the interview at this point)
    Interviewer: So, when I get stressed out I just go out to my car and smoke a joint.  Ya know!
    Me: Umm.....


  • jlarocco (unregistered) in reply to Manni
    Manni:

    @Anonymous Coward: To play the devil's advocate, does that mean you're looking for a job where you can just barely skate by on an 8-hour workday? I'd like to see the place that hires a person who puts THAT on their resume.

    And as for non-technical engineering leads, we have plenty of those at my job. That's what happens when you heavily focus on a dying programming language and refuse to adapt to the newer technologies. If they had any real skill, they wouldn't be a manager. They'd be doing REAL work.

    The President of the company was distracted with emails and phone calls? Imagine that. Typically the higher up a person is on the management chain, the more their job revolves around social interaction and less about actual widget production. He was probably making the choice of communicating with potential/existing paying clients rather than dealing with an interviewee. If it were me, I'd pick the guy who's paying the bills.

    Sorry dude, this is the way of the world. At least that place would buy you dinner for staying late.

    I have to agree with the anonymous coward. I don't have a problem with working late, or working weekends when necessary, but when it's the expected, everyday behavior, there's a problem. Either hire enough people, or move the deadline back, or do something.

    I simply enjoy my personal time too much to work all the time. I don't think it's being unreasonable at all to not want to work 60 or 70 hours a week. I'm not saying I'd walk into an interview and say "Listen, I work 40 hours a week. If you want more than that, find someone else." but as far as I'm concerned, 40 hours a week should be the usual 80% or 90% of the time, or I probably don't want to work there.

  • rizzo (unregistered)

    This was in 1997 or so, so before most of the web job boards.
    I posted an advert in the local paper, saying I needed a "VB programmer with good communication skills".  Among others, this guy calls to inquire about the job.  I ask, how many years of VB programming experience do you have.  He replies, "what?  I am not a programmer".  So I go, why did you call in then?  He replies: "I have good communication skills".  Apparently not.

  • gc (unregistered)

    Oh, no, it's the guy with a funny handshake!  Run!  Someone guard the whiteboard before the crazy whiteboard eraser guy gets here and replaces our shitty ERD with a properly normalized one!

    These interviews are like something from "Revenge of the Nerds".  The uptight executives are desparate to rule out the geeky developers based on appearance and mannerism.  However, they're really just afraid of someone getting their foot in the door and screwing up "the curve".

    Geek:  Look, I can complete that project in no time!  Here's how!  writes on whiteboard

    Manager (who's been working on project for 2 years):  Hey, you're not allowed to write on whiteboards!  You're fired! . . . err I mean not hired!

  • (cs) in reply to gc

    I have been laughing so hard at all of your comments. Especially the EEO one.

    You would be shocked to learn that the handshake guy was a caucasian guy. So what would be the EEO case? LOL!

    In defense to the other "non-hirings"...

    Are you seriously going to hire someone whose first comment is "Which one of you is Beavis?" And this is to their future managers?!? You must be joking. That was incredibly stupid on his part. You can't defend that one.

    Are you seriously going to hire someone who does not even follow the basic rules of the interview process by wearing a leisure suit & gold chain? That is totally mocking the interviewer. Everyone knows you're supposed to dress nicely. Duh!!!

    And are you seriously going to hire someone who does not even ask to erase the board before using it? If that's the way he acts in the interview, how is he going to ask on a day-to-day basis?

    One more thing about the handshake guy...the candidate is going to be someone who's going to represent a professional company and sometimes interact with clients. How would that sort of handshake style come across in future business dealings?

    Think about it.

  • vhawk (unregistered)

    Except if these were interviews for a sales job or political position, I cannot detect anything worth flipping a lid about.  Most of these presidents or what ever managers sound like the type that I would tell to put their jobs where the sun does not shine. 

    We had a friend that would go to new clients wearing a jean t-shirt and no shoes.  The fact of the matter is that he is till today the only person that I have seen that took a C manual without knowing the language - scanned it for 30 minutes and had a windowing system going on the same day (back in good old DOS days).

    Thus his attire had nothing to do with his ability - more important than his gold chain, hand shake or what ever excited these wonderful manager types. Some days I'm glad I'm a contractor - I need not take this type of hogwash from any employer - either they use me for my skills or they go and find themselves a worthless little 'Yes Sir, No Sir' corporation type.

  • (cs) in reply to vhawk
    Anonymous:

    Except if these were interviews for a sales job or political position, I cannot detect anything worth flipping a lid about.  Most of these presidents or what ever managers sound like the type that I would tell to put their jobs where the sun does not shine. 

    We had a friend that would go to new clients wearing a jean t-shirt and no shoes.  The fact of the matter is that he is till today the only person that I have seen that took a C manual without knowing the language - scanned it for 30 minutes and had a windowing system going on the same day (back in good old DOS days).

    Thus his attire had nothing to do with his ability - more important than his gold chain, hand shake or what ever excited these wonderful manager types. Some days I'm glad I'm a contractor - I need not take this type of hogwash from any employer - either they use me for my skills or they go and find themselves a worthless little 'Yes Sir, No Sir' corporation type.



    What matters is not so much what puts a bug up the managers' asses, but what puts a bug up the customers' asses.  Back in good old DOS days, good programmers were rare and arcane enough (or at least were perceived that way) that people were willing to put up with weird outfits and behavior; nowadays, though, that is not the case.

    If your employee really does have zero interaction with customers, then yeah, their weird outfits and behavior ought not to be a liability.

    Ditto on "occasional long hours are needed, but if they're the norm, then you're doing something wrong".

  • (cs) in reply to vhawk
    Anonymous:

    Except if these were interviews for a sales job or political position, I cannot detect anything worth flipping a lid about.  Most of these presidents or what ever managers sound like the type that I would tell to put their jobs where the sun does not shine. 

    We had a friend that would go to new clients wearing a jean t-shirt and no shoes.  The fact of the matter is that he is till today the only person that I have seen that took a C manual without knowing the language - scanned it for 30 minutes and had a windowing system going on the same day (back in good old DOS days).

    Thus his attire had nothing to do with his ability - more important than his gold chain, hand shake or what ever excited these wonderful manager types. Some days I'm glad I'm a contractor - I need not take this type of hogwash from any employer - either they use me for my skills or they go and find themselves a worthless little 'Yes Sir, No Sir' corporation type.



    Attire and manner are not directly indicative of ability, no -- but they are essential to customer confidence. Like it or not, books are judged by their covers, and there are very few clients out there who are willing to bet even a moderate contract on the bastard child of Jack Black and Rainman anymore. This ain't the '90s. If there is any direct client contact, the client expects someone who at least fits their image of reliability and professionalism. And the shaggy code monkeys in the basement (or otherwise out of sight)? The ones who take a fully-developed requirements document and turn it into an application? Well, unless they are truly exceptional and have proven their worth, they can find themselves replaced by twice the number of discount monkeys in an outsourcing center. Not necessarily of the minimally-skilled random-spelling pidgin-_insert language_ variety, either. You get, on average, nearly two Canucks for the price of a Yank without time zone problems or language barriers -- most client stakeholders are blissfully unaware that the guy or gal at the other end of the phone line (or Netmeeting or Sametime conference) isn't as star-spangled as they are.

    Welcome to the new reality.
  • andrey (unregistered)

    With so many qualified people being unemployed, how the hell do asshats like that make it far enough to get an interview?  I feel for last guy, though.  Tells ya how little it takes to blow an interview.

  • Lon Varscsak (unregistered) in reply to John

    John, she has the hots for ya man...it explains why she was all up in your business and why she was so upset at your reaction.

  • Lon Varscsak (unregistered) in reply to emptyset
    emptyset:
    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>this is sadly true.  has anyone ever had a competent manager?</FONT>

    I have a pretty good manager. But he's a technical guy and while he doesn't write much software anymore he's still got game. However, I've always said that I would never work for a non-technical manager....it's hard to work for someone who makes less money than you. :D

  • (cs) in reply to anon
    Anonymous:

    If this test is given before an actual interview I would have walked out before even looking at the test.  Unless I'm certain that the job is worth the time investment I'm not going to waste my time.  If that makes me "worthless" then so be it.


    I wouldn't recommend that approach, since the nature of the test is going to tell you a lot about what kind of programming environment you're going into. Spending one to two minutes reading the test will probably tell you as much or more about how smart that group is than spending ten minutes talking to them. Why not save the time?

    Back when I was hiring, too, I created a test for potential developers, but it was a "take home" test that I gave out to people before the came in for an interview. I prefer that even more because it saves us scheduling an appointment if the potential developer is a real loser. My co-workers had doubts about letting them do it at lesure, but once they saw the questions, they agreed that anybody who could do the research to answer them, if that was necessary, would be a fine addition to our team.
  • (cs)

    Nah'mean?

    This guy waltzes into the interview wearing an open shirt with a gold chain. I don't mean rapper gold chain, I mean Leisure Suit Larry style. He was exposing all sorts of grotesque hair on his chest. And he had the pimp swagger down too.


    B&B

    This was a board interview. In case you are unfamiliar with the concept, it's where a large panel of people (from different departments) sit along one side of a giant table...and the candidate is on the other side. Sounds pretty scary? Well, apparently this candidate didn't think so.

    It was typical practice for the candidate to be in the room way ahead of time. He was in there long before any of us arrived. As we started to filter in the room, we said hello and took our seats. There were about 7 of us in total on the panel side and we were still missing 2 members: the CTO (Chief Technology Officer) and his second in command (just a systems guy, but he had the longest tenure and therefore some of the greatest clout).

    While we were waiting, there was no idle chit-chat or talk wih the candidate. He was just sitting there with this really goofy look on his face. I remember thinking to myself that he was way too relaxed. After all, this was a senior programming position he was interviewing for. This was not just another random interview.

    In comes the CTO and his 2nd-in-command. They were chatting quite a bit walking in the door and were laughing to themselves about something. Even as they took they're seats they were still chuckling. Then, out of the blue, the candidate speaks up and asks, "So...which one of you is Beavis and which one of you is Butthead?"

    The room went completely silent. I would have laughed had I not been so shocked. Everybody was in complete awe. Apparently the candidate thought this would make a funny "ice-breaker", but he was so wrong. The CTO's face turned bright red. He was so angry he couldn't even speak...then he just got up, picked up his folder, and left the room. No one knew what to do. Finally, the receptionist came in the room and asked the candidate to come with her. We never did hear from that candidate again. Boy was that a stupid thing to say at an interview!

    Sit Down!

    At a completely different company, in a much smaller work environment, I had to sit in with the all-in-one President/CTO/Systems Admin and interview a potential candidate. I was the lead programmer and we were interviewing the candidate for a web programming position.

    In walks the candidate and shakes both of our hands. It is a small office, so there is not a whole lot of room to move around. On the side of the candidate is a dry erase board where we would usually spec-out our stuff. Anyways, the interview is going along, and we notice that the candidate is quite animated. He's using a lot of hand gestures and sitting forward in his chair. Then, he starts to get excited when telling us about one of his past projects. He leaps up and starts to erase some of what's on the dry erase board...without asking. He's excitedly drawing some diagram on the board, and I look over to the President and you could see the steam coming out of his ears. Surprisingly, this goes on for at least a minute or two. Finally the candidate turns around and exclaims, "It was such a great project! We sure nailed that one!" and he tosses the marker back on its slot.

    The President just about screamed, "Would you please SIT DOWN!!!"

    Now you have to picture what happened the instant he said this. The candidate sat back in his seat so fast that you would have thought it was military. I mean, he sat down. It was instantaneous. I had such a hard time keeping from laughing and actually had to leave the room!

    I never did go back in there because I couldn't keep myself together. It wasn't shortly after I left that the candidate was escorted out. The President wasn't upset that I left the interview early because he had absolutely no intention of hiring the guy anyway

    The Handshake

    This story isn't that exciting, it's just an illustration of what not to do during an interview.

    The candidate walks in, looking quite normal. He approaches the main interviewer and he extends his hand. The candidate then proceeds to do this "Whassup Dawg" handshake. You know, it's the one where you shake, then grab, then kind of grab again?

    However, the candidate didn't expect the interviewer's response of "Ok, Ok! Please, that's enough." He didn't say it in a mean way, just so that the candidate would stop. The candidate looked a little shaken by the interviewer's reaction, so he shook my hand normally.

    The interview ended up being okay, and there were no further incidents. But because of his weird "Whassup Dawg" handshake, he didn't make it any further in the process.

     

  • (cs) in reply to ammoQ

    ehh.... this forum is kinda weird

  • (cs) in reply to ammoQ

    What I really wanted to say (short version, since the forum software ate my original post):

    None of these stories tell anything about the technical skills of the canditates. People say and do stupid things when they are nervous, which is typical for interviews. As an interviewer, I would be suspicious if a canditate seems to calm&experiencend in doing interviews - he's probably doing that often.

  • (cs) in reply to ammoQ

    My main impression is just that you're not interviewing with a company or some ideal of a perfect interviewer. You're interviewing with one or several human beings, with quirks and stereotypes and generally pressed for time. And the bosses are interviewing human beings as well, who slip up once in a while and might have different expectations of working than the comany does. One person's reasonable is another's out of line, and part of interviewing is finding someplace that matches the two with a bit of flexibility. Might as well hit incompatibilities in the interview than afterward, when it's much harder to get rid of someone or leave. I see some people missing that (especially on the first page), but I guess that's their perogative.

    I think part of the point of the stories is that both candidates and interviewers can be goofy and picky. =p

    Lord knows I remember a few interviews I rode sidesaddle on. Like the guy who interviewed for web designer and coordinator, seemed competent and came up with some good plans when we threw some situations at him, so we hired him part time... and two weeks later he stops showing up, later saying he moved to north carolina and oops, forgot to mention that in the interview.

    (I wish I could interview a pimp. Did he have a fedora?)

  • Gijs van Swaaij (unregistered) in reply to anon

    Why? I think that a test is a great way to make a first distinction between people who know what they are talking about and people who are just clueless. This is especially for technical jobs, where your actual skills in your field of study are probably your most important asset. Of course, in the end you will need to interview everyone who has gotten at least a reasonable score, but on the whole, I think it is a good way for the manager to save some of his precious time (and, in the case above, it even saves the applicant some time). Plus, you are sure that the guy you eventually hire has some skills.

  • (cs) in reply to ammoQ
    ammoQ:
    What I really wanted to say (short version, since the forum software ate my original post):

    None of these stories tell anything about the technical skills of the canditates. People say and do stupid things when they are nervous, which is typical for interviews. As an interviewer, I would be suspicious if a canditate seems to calm&experiencend in doing interviews - he's probably doing that often.


    Or maybe he's just a calm person that handles pressure well? Gee, that would be an awful candidate!

    Furthermore, going on a lot of interviews, meaning you're evaluating a lot of possible career choices in an attempt to find the right job for you, is now a bad thing? Sure - people are sometimes nervous in interviews but it is their job to sell themselves.

    Your opinion shows that your science background is quite lacking. I would not hire you on that basis alone. Stop posting.
  • (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon
    Richard Nixon:

    Or maybe he's just a calm person that handles pressure well? Gee, that would be an awful candidate!

    Furthermore, going on a lot of interviews, meaning you're evaluating a lot of possible career choices in an attempt to find the right job for you, is now a bad thing? Sure - people are sometimes nervous in interviews but it is their job to sell themselves.

    Your opinion shows that your science background is quite lacking. I would not hire you on that basis alone. Stop posting.


    Fortunately, chances are I will never apply for a job at your company.
  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    Recently, where I work, we've been giving interviewees This piece of code and asking them what is wrong with it. We've gotten some interesting replies, such as "it uses inefficient data structures".

  • (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon
    Richard Nixon:
    ammoQ:
    What I really wanted to say (short version, since the forum software ate my original post):

    None of these stories tell anything about the technical skills of the canditates. People say and do stupid things when they are nervous, which is typical for interviews. As an interviewer, I would be suspicious if a canditate seems to calm&experiencend in doing interviews - he's probably doing that often.


    Or maybe he's just a calm person that handles pressure well? Gee, that would be an awful candidate!

    Furthermore, going on a lot of interviews, meaning you're evaluating a lot of possible career choices in an attempt to find the right job for you, is now a bad thing? Sure - people are sometimes nervous in interviews but it is their job to sell themselves.

    Your opinion shows that your science background is quite lacking. I would not hire you on that basis alone. Stop posting.


    I took ammoQ's remark about being suspicious of a person who's very comfortable in the interview setting to mean that, if a person is calm and experienced in doing interviews, maybe it's because he's done a lot of them.  If he's done a lot of them, maybe that's because he's simply evaluating many companies, trying to find the right one for him...or maybe it's because he's a jackass who jumps ship to a new job every six months when he finds out that his current employer has outrageous expectations of him, like that he'll show up to work on time and get stuff done.  If it's the former, great!  If it's the latter, not-great!  Either way, I'd be suspicious, meaning that I'd put a little extra effort in trying to discern the reason for his behaviour during the interview.

    Your post shows that your ability not to respond too harshly to people too quickly, making youself out to be an ass, is quite lacking. I am annoyed by your posts on that basis alone. Stop posting.  ;)
  • (cs) in reply to Stan Rogers

    Stan hit the nail right on the head.

    The 90's are over...and as great as they were you can't keep living in the good 'ol days.

    How things have changed:

    • Outsourcing is in. So showing up at an interview "being yourself" isn't going to cut it anymore. You either "fit in" or "get out". You have to be twice as professional and skilled in an interview these days. Think about it, there's plenty more where you came from...and they're overseas and cheaper.
    • Professionalism is in. The quirkiness of the 90's has long since past. People are looking for reproduceable results and high-quality customer relations. This means the long-haired, hide-in-the-basement type of programmer needs to take a bath, be presentable, and sit up straight. The clients now visit the office.
    • Knowledge is in. Your neighbor down the street is no longer going to be "tricked" into paying you $50 to build them a website. Sorry to burst your bubble. They're now hosting their own websites on their own servers, probably selling beanie babies.
    The whole dynamic has changed. Things are now more professional, more geared towards quality products, and even more conservative.

    This means the long-haired weirdos will have to cut their shag rugs.
  • jmo (unregistered)

    leisure suit guy - stunning lack of respect for a formal interview. In the UK it was never the case that u would be able to wear what u like to an interview - it may have been ok in the US for certain companies (like Microsoft), but in the rest of the world, its a no no. And besides, why risk it? Every IT company i have ever worked for, i've went along in my suit for the interview, and when i've started a job, turned up my first few days in suit (or shirt, tie, trousers) and not long after that, its back to denims and a t-shirt once you find the "lay of the land" as it were. Yes, a suit doesnt mean u can do a job, but show some respect!

    Beavis guy - twat, plain and simple

    CEO with the phone, email and long hours - lack of respect by him - twat - i'll work long hours when needed, but if thats the norm, i'm not interested and your company is either doing it all wrong, or trying to make up for bad mistakes

    Sit Down guy - the interviewer is a twat - but i feel the whole story wasnt fully described

  • (cs) in reply to UncleMidriff
    UncleMidriff:

    I took ammoQ's remark about being suspicious of a person who's very comfortable in the interview setting to mean that, if a person is calm and experienced in doing interviews, maybe it's because he's done a lot of them.  If he's done a lot of them, maybe that's because he's simply evaluating many companies, trying to find the right one for him...or maybe it's because he's a jackass who jumps ship to a new job every six months when he finds out that his current employer has outrageous expectations of him, like that he'll show up to work on time and get stuff done.  If it's the former, great!  If it's the latter, not-great!  Either way, I'd be suspicious, meaning that I'd put a little extra effort in trying to discern the reason for his behaviour during the interview.


    Exactly, that's what I meant. One more thought: Of course it's the job of the canditate to sell himself; on the other hand, it's the job of the interviewer to find the best person for the job. Refusing an excellent coder because of his handshake might be a poor decision. If your company already has 5 geek-type programmers, the eloquent salesperson-type programmer will probably not fit into the team. The interviewer has to consider that.

    CPound:

    How things have changed:

    • Outsourcing is in. So showing up at an interview "being yourself" isn't going to cut it anymore. You either "fit in" or "get out". You have to be twice as professional and skilled in an interview these days. Think about it, there's plenty more where you came from...and they're overseas and cheaper.

    You cannot outsource everything. Many jobs require customer contact and physical presence, so they cannot be transfered to Elbonia. Unfortunately for the long-haired hide-in-basement type of programmer, their jobs are more likely to be transferable, since customer contact is hardly an option. On the other hand, one excellent programmer can be worth more than 5 average programmers. Some tasks are so difficult that a big team of average skilled people will only build a bloated, slow, incomplete solution, while a single excellent programmer could make it much better. It would be stupid to turn such a programmer down if he ever applies for a job (something that is not very likely for several reasons).

    • Professionalism is in. The quirkiness of the 90's has long since past. People are looking for reproduceable results and high-quality customer relations. This means the long-haired, hide-in-the-basement type of programmer needs to take a bath, be presentable, and sit up straight. The clients now visit the office.


    Though this is true to some extent, in my experience customers don't expect too much in terms of style when they visit the office. Sometimes they just want to make sure the company has the number of programmers claimed.


    • Knowledge is in. Your neighbor down the street is no longer going to be "tricked" into paying you $50 to build them a website. Sorry to burst your bubble. They're now hosting their own websites on their own servers, probably selling beanie babies.

    The whole dynamic has changed. Things are now more professional, more geared towards quality products, and even more conservative.


    This means the long-haired weirdos will have to cut their shag rugs.



    Knowledge is in, true, but in too many cases that means: knowing the buzzword of the week (BOTW). Especially large corporations often start a project by defining "it has to be made with BOTW" although they have no skills with that. Then they start looking for people who know BOTW, but how can you interview canditates when you don't know BOTW yourself? As a result, they contract the cheapest applicants or the best self-sellers.
  • (cs) in reply to CPound
    CPound:

    The clients now visit the office.


    Or, much more commonly, we have to visit the clients' office.  At least sometimes - I can get quite a lot done through a Terminal Server connection to the client's network, but some things require you to be there in person.

  • Unregistered (unregistered) in reply to Richard Nixon
    Richard Nixon:
    Your opinion shows that your science background is quite lacking. I would not hire you on that basis alone. Stop posting.


    Didn't I tell you to leave already?  Go on, get out of here.  You don't post anything worth reading and are simply trolling for flames.  Scat, fool.
  • (cs) in reply to jmo

    "Every IT company i have ever worked for, i've went along in my suit for the interview,"

    I've worked for a software company where, if you showed up in a tie, you were thanked for your time, and excused. So, it is not necessarily the safe choice.

  • (cs) in reply to John

    "I've worked for a software company where, if you showed up in a tie, you were thanked for your time, and excused."

    What company was that? Were your chairs bean bags and did you use power crystals to channel your team's creative energies?

    That type of company died with the 90's.

    I worked at one place where the managers wore kimonos and walked around in a daze singing some mantra chant, which was supposed to release the "evervescent flow" or some garbage like that.

    That company lasted 3 months. It no longer exists.

Leave a comment on “Nah'mean? and Other Interview Stories”

Log In or post as a guest

Replying to comment #:

Log Out

« Return to Article