• Vilx- (unregistered)

    Comment(sdfadsf+sdfsadf)

  • MP79 (unregistered)

    ment + cat + Obf + Com + used

  • gnasher729 (unregistered)

    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.

    This is one WTF that leaves me otherwise speechless.

  • ubersoldat (cs)

    Come on! Weren't this your first job? You should hang in there at least for a year until you can apply for a job which requires real experience on the field. At least they gave you the chance to work in the field and post in TDWTF.

  • Decius (unregistered)

    You can either work in security or work in a position where "security" is in the title. Not both.

    See also the Transportation Security Administration, which has nothing to do with transportation or security. Or even administration.

  • ObiWayneKenobi (cs) in reply to gnasher729
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.

    This is one WTF that leaves me otherwise speechless.

    I can only imagine what kind of horrors he encountered that would make him quit within 10 minutes, barring something unethical like he showed up for work and was told oh sorry, we really don't have the budget to hire you after all. Sorry about that.

    I've left jobs in a week after seeing a slew of WTFs, and once I left on lunch my second day and never came back because things were so bad and everyone else in the office were like zombies typing away, but 10 minutes? Wow.

  • Walter (unregistered)
    he was most passionate about: security.

    ...

    Microsoft Access VBA macro

    Looks like an interview fail to me.

  • QJo (unregistered) in reply to gnasher729
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.

    Happens more often than you'd believe. I can think of at least 5 people I've worked with who have gone away and come back in short order.

    Me, I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week. I was lined up with a sweet number too, that first call, offering twice the money and considerably more responsibility - then I made the mistake of explaining that I'd just started in a job I wasn't a good fit for. And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.

    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to QJo
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!

    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.

  • Fred (unregistered) in reply to gnasher729
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company.
    They wouldn't let him start until 9AM? How awful. I'd be outta there pretty quick too.

    But seriously, I once had the opposite experience.

    I took a job at a place where they said during the interview that they were looking for someone to come in, get familiar with stuff, then step up into a manager role. Since I was at that point in my career, it sounded interesting. After I got there I learned that it was basically a feudal idiocracy where most everyone spent the bulk of their energy politicing, backstabbing, undermining, and yes once there was even a murder.

    Yeah I left.

    It had become apparent the "promotion to manager" was just a lure anyhow. And I had an offer for a real manager job, not in the vague distant future, but starting from day one.

    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    I informed them that basic professionalism would require me to give at least four weeks notice to my new employer, but I wasn't really interested in returning anyway.

    "Four weeks! Are you crazy? You only gave us two!"

    "But I wasn't in a management position with you. I am now."

  • snoofle (cs) in reply to QJo
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.
    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.
  • QJo (unregistered) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.
    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.
    Good call. It's long enough ago that I can't remember whether or not it was the same recruiter or not. IIRC it was recruiter salad at the time (mid-80's) and it was actually quite easy to get a new position - there were plenty of jobs around.
  • Smug Unix User (unregistered)

    Why not obsqwerty the functions as well? You could even write an interpreter in Access and use your own obsqerty language. While not really a security type job, this job provides the most fun for a developer. Imagine a complete code base filled with this. If you played your cards right you could come back as a consultant for quadruple.

  • stray (unregistered) in reply to snoofle

    I think it is common courtesy to give the recruiter a headstart before coming after him or her with a LART.

  • Pista (unregistered)

    OMG, we're also using code obfuscation here (Java), but we're not working directly on the obfuscated stuff...

  • csrster (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi

    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.

  • QJo (unregistered) in reply to csrster
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.

    Exactly. What graduate can perform an adequate task of washing a floor? None that I've encountered. So she was fired after a week.

  • gnasher729 (unregistered) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.
    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.
    Depends. If it is clear that you are _not_ going to stay, and that they are _not_ going to get their money from that place, they might have other possible positions already that you didn't take because you took the first one. It's not as if they have a monopoly.
  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to QJo
    QJo:
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.
    What graduate can perform an adequate task of washing a floor? ... So she was fired after a week.
    csrster said "That didn't last long", not "She didn't last long". Obviously she had a degree in archaeology and started excavating right away!
  • PunctuallyChallenged (unregistered) in reply to gnasher729
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back...

    The owner of a company I once worked for called me the day after he fired me, asking if I would come back as a contractor until he filled the position. The guy had screamed at me in the middle of a restaurant the night before and told me to "get the hell out." It wasn't his first screaming fit, but it was the first in a public place.

    Lesson learned: when the previous guy in your position walks out without lining up another job, it's probably a good sign that you should steer clear.

  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL (unregistered) in reply to Smug Unix User
    Smug Unix User:
    Why not obsqwerty the functions as well? You could even write an interpreter in Access and use your own obsqerty language.
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
  • TopTension (unregistered)

    An 'A' for todays article title!

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
  • Roby McAndrew (cs) in reply to ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    You are all reading the comments. The real software is written in whitespace.

  • VAXcat (unregistered)

    At my first computer related job, I had worked my way up from tending a numerically controlled typesetting machine to System Manager of a PDP-11/70 system (at the time, that was a big deal). The company decided to cut costs by laying off all the machine tenders and telling me I could do both jobs at the same salary. I had no further interest in feeding tapes into readers, swapping cards in dedicated systems and cleaning out film processors, so I elected to move on to another company as a PDP System Manager. This caused no small amount of rancor at the old company, where "traitor" was the kindest thing I was called. Two weeks later, they called begging me to come back as a consultant and get the typesetting machines running again. I replied that I would be glad to, but I would require $1000.00 per hour cash in hand upfront to work on these old machines. They told me, this was madness. I replied, Exactly so and hung up the phone.

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to PunctuallyChallenged
    PunctuallyChallenged:
    when the previous guy in your position walks out without lining up another job, it's probably a good sign that you should steer clear
    Doesn't necessarily mean that the boss is dysfunctional. A colleague of mine from another department once walked out without having a new job after finishing a module for our department. Looking at what he left us/his department, I couldn't help but wondering if he left because otherwise he would have had to maintain his own code. And I didn't blame him for leaving - he left an asynchronous, multithreaded monster that came back to haunt us every other week or so.
  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!

    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.

    15 Months?!?

    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

  • operagost (cs) in reply to Fred
    Fred:
    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    I informed them that basic professionalism would require me to give at least four weeks notice to my new employer, but I wasn't really interested in returning anyway.

    "Four weeks! Are you crazy? You only gave us two!"

    "But I wasn't in a management position with you. I am now."

    I'd go there after I left my new job for the day and charge them $250 an hour for emergency after-hours service.
  • RichP (cs) in reply to QJo
    QJo:
    And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.

    Oh boy did I mis-read that one. At first I had a totally different picture of how you obtained your position.

  • Valued Service (unregistered) in reply to snoofle
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.
    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.

    Yes it would be in their best interest. If they don't help you, you'll call another recruiter who'll be eager to do so, and they lose their investment, plus lose the opportunity for you to return in 3-5 years. If they do help you, they'll find you another position and get the credit from the new job.

  • LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet (cs) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
    A clever idea, but in these cases it'll probably be easier to reverse engineer the compiled code instead of attempting to understand the original.
  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS! I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    faoileag:
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
    A clever idea, but in these cases it'll probably be easier to reverse engineer the compiled code instead of attempting to understand the original.
    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.
  • LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet (cs) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.
    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace. Original quote:
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
  • Cap'n Spanky (unregistered) in reply to PunctuallyChallenged
    PunctuallyChallenged:
    The owner of a company I once worked for called me the day after he fired me, asking if I would come back as a contractor until he filled the position. The guy had screamed at me in the middle of a restaurant the night before and told me to "get the hell out." It wasn't his first screaming fit, but it was the first in a public place.
    Hey - I worked for that guy, too! Small Linux distro in the early 2000's. The CEO would regularly come out of his glass office and scream at the marketing folks. He went through marketing people like milk through dairy intolerants.

    My turn was one Monday morning after taking my wife and daughter up the coast for the weekend. He ran into a problem that Friday night and emailed me. I didn't get the email until Monday morning - about five minutes before being called into his office - which was about thirty minutes before I called a buddy from two jobs prior.

    The day I (re)started my new (old?) job, I got a call from the linux distro asking me to take a contracting position.

  • Amakudari (unregistered)

    So, uh, you can just do something like

    Debug.Print sdfasds & sdafadf & asdfsaf

    And yet, it's still better than Microsoft's take on VBA security. Security through pity.

  • urza9814 (unregistered) in reply to LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    faoileag:
    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.
    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace. Original quote:
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.

    Both of which are also interpreted languages ;)

    You'd need to write a program that translates it to C, run it through gcc with heavy compiler optimization set, and THEN decompile and analyse.

    Or perhaps if you find an existing C interpreter you could hardcode the input rather than translating the whole thing...I don't know enough about compiler optimization to know if that would work; my guess is probably not though...

  • DaveK (cs) in reply to csrster
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor.
    And throwing a bone for the dinosaur?
  • DaveK (cs)
    TFA:
    spent a lot of his spare time learning as much as he could about various aspects of security
    LOL, is that a nice way of saying "was a script kiddie"?
  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace.
    Oh. Sorry. You see, I thought that real tough obfuscation would involve a Brainfuck interpreter method for VBA that takes Brainfuck sources and returns whatever the Brainfuck sources give to stdout.

    Or in pseudocode: bfsrc = '+++---->>>'; // need to use some real Brainfuck here fieldname = runbf(bfsrc) update(fieldname, now);

    Problem is, you can still put the literal Brainfuck code into a standalone Brainfuck interpreter to get the fieldname...

    Ok, not yet enterprisey enough :-(

  • snoofle (cs) in reply to Valued Service
    Valued Service:
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.
    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.

    Yes it would be in their best interest. If they don't help you, you'll call another recruiter who'll be eager to do so, and they lose their investment, plus lose the opportunity for you to return in 3-5 years. If they do help you, they'll find you another position and get the credit from the new job.

    Your point is well thought out and fraught with common sense. Something (at least in my personal experience) recruiters seem to lack.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS! I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

  • emaNrouY-Here (unregistered)

    With a "you think you've got it bad story," we are certain to see the Monty Python skit theme develop. And we have.

    As such, let me extra irritating. www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGAR75rgykM

  • Valued Service (unregistered)

    I think I see a pattern here.

    Take previous "had it bad story".

    Shrink size of living quarters. Decrease sanitation of environment. Decrease health, sanitation, environment, and increase working hours and shame of work conditions. Increase brutality of father's abuse. Increase duration of work pay by a factor of larger scale of time measurement, and decrease pay.

    We used to have to live in an atom every day, get up and rearrange the sub-atomic particles so that a hole would open so we could leave for work. On our way out, we'd have to pass through the membrane of a tumor cell, exposing ourselves to radiation therapy in a dying patient at a dirty old hospital. We'd then work on cleaning the hospital's patients in the E.R. ward with our own spit. When we made it home, our father would crush us in a black hole. We did all this for a piece of used toilet paper for dinner.

  • Elron the Fantastic (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS! I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.

  • Mike (unregistered) in reply to snoofle

    I work in healthcare and the passwords for our radiation treatment machines are a algorithmic substitution. Essentially if you know one you know them all because of the pattern in substitutions. Some how this is seen as better than just having them all use the same password in the first place. These are otherwise fairly locked down machines so they aren't domain joined and it isn't like it is needed to manage user permissions on the corporate level or anything. Just ... dumb ... passwords. Vendors also use the same password at all sites for administration and if you work at a reasonably high level with the equipment you need the passwords to get the machine to do what you want so ... pretty much every technician in the world can hack your $3M treatment machine and make it kill patients if they wanted too. Perfect.

  • Guanxi (unregistered) in reply to Elron the Fantastic
    Elron the Fantastic:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS! I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.

    I used to work in a factory in China assembling Apple products.

  • Mason Wheeler (cs)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDcbO2bRxhg

    Probably the best example I've seen.

  • chubertdev (cs)

    I wonder what the longevity is of people that are promoted to managers. I think that it's often a red flag. I've seen it happen often, and it's even happened to me once, where that is used as a substitution for increase in pay. I received more reponsibility with only a few more bucks in my pocket. Awesome.

    The icing on the cake was that the hiring for the people beneath me was done with very little of my input. The PHB would hire people based on his choices.

    When he re-hired a guy that was pretty much the cause for every single problem in our codebase without my input, that was when I walked out the door. Although it helped that I already had another job lined up...

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Elron the Fantastic
    Elron the Fantastic:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS! I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!? You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.

    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.

    Damn! That's just wrong.

    I think you win.

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