Security by Obsqwerty

  • Vilx- 2013-02-11 06:07
    Comment(sdfadsf+sdfsadf)
  • MP79 2013-02-11 06:09
    ment + cat + Obf + Com + used
  • gnasher729 2013-02-11 06:16
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.

    This is one WTF that leaves me otherwise speechless.
  • ubersoldat 2013-02-11 06:31
    Come on! Weren't this your first job? You should hang in there at least for a year until you can apply for a job which requires real experience on the field. At least they gave you the chance to work in the field and post in TDWTF.
  • Decius 2013-02-11 06:43
    You can either work in security or work in a position where "security" is in the title. Not both.

    See also the Transportation Security Administration, which has nothing to do with transportation or security. Or even administration.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2013-02-11 07:09
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.

    This is one WTF that leaves me otherwise speechless.


    I can only imagine what kind of horrors he encountered that would make him quit within 10 minutes, barring something unethical like he showed up for work and was told oh sorry, we really don't have the budget to hire you after all. Sorry about that.

    I've left jobs in a week after seeing a slew of WTFs, and once I left on lunch my second day and never came back because things were so bad and everyone else in the office were like zombies typing away, but 10 minutes? Wow.
  • Walter 2013-02-11 07:14
    he was most passionate about: security.

    ...

    Microsoft Access VBA macro
    Looks like an interview fail to me.
  • QJo 2013-02-11 07:14
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.


    Happens more often than you'd believe. I can think of at least 5 people I've worked with who have gone away and come back in short order.

    Me, I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week. I was lined up with a sweet number too, that first call, offering twice the money and considerably more responsibility - then I made the mistake of explaining that I'd just started in a job I wasn't a good fit for. And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.

    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 07:33
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.

    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!

    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
  • Fred 2013-02-11 07:34
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company.
    They wouldn't let him start until 9AM? How awful. I'd be outta there pretty quick too.



    But seriously, I once had the opposite experience.

    I took a job at a place where they said during the interview that they were looking for someone to come in, get familiar with stuff, then step up into a manager role. Since I was at that point in my career, it sounded interesting. After I got there I learned that it was basically a feudal idiocracy where most everyone spent the bulk of their energy politicing, backstabbing, undermining, and yes once there was even a murder.

    Yeah I left.

    It had become apparent the "promotion to manager" was just a lure anyhow. And I had an offer for a real manager job, not in the vague distant future, but starting from day one.

    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    I informed them that basic professionalism would require me to give at least four weeks notice to my new employer, but I wasn't really interested in returning anyway.

    "Four weeks! Are you crazy? You only gave us two!"

    "But I wasn't in a management position with you. I am now."

  • snoofle 2013-02-11 07:55
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.
  • QJo 2013-02-11 08:02
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.

    Good call. It's long enough ago that I can't remember whether or not it was the same recruiter or not. IIRC it was recruiter salad at the time (mid-80's) and it was actually quite easy to get a new position - there were plenty of jobs around.
  • Smug Unix User 2013-02-11 08:21
    Why not obsqwerty the functions as well? You could even write an interpreter in Access and use your own obsqerty language. While not really a security type job, this job provides the most fun for a developer. Imagine a complete code base filled with this. If you played your cards right you could come back as a consultant for quadruple.

  • stray 2013-02-11 08:23
    I think it is common courtesy to give the recruiter a headstart before coming after him or her with a LART.
  • Pista 2013-02-11 08:42
    OMG, we're also using code obfuscation here (Java), but we're not working directly on the obfuscated stuff...
  • csrster 2013-02-11 08:44
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.
  • QJo 2013-02-11 08:49
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.


    Exactly. What graduate can perform an adequate task of washing a floor? None that I've encountered. So she was fired after a week.
  • gnasher729 2013-02-11 09:01
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.

    Depends. If it is clear that you are _not_ going to stay, and that they are _not_ going to get their money from that place, they might have other possible positions already that you didn't take because you took the first one. It's not as if they have a monopoly.
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 09:05
    QJo:
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor. That didn't last very long.
    What graduate can perform an adequate task of washing a floor? ... So she was fired after a week.

    csrster said "That didn't last long", not "She didn't last long".
    Obviously she had a degree in archaeology and started excavating right away!
  • PunctuallyChallenged 2013-02-11 09:24
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back...


    The owner of a company I once worked for called me the day after he fired me, asking if I would come back as a contractor until he filled the position. The guy had screamed at me in the middle of a restaurant the night before and told me to "get the hell out." It wasn't his first screaming fit, but it was the first in a public place.

    Lesson learned: when the previous guy in your position walks out without lining up another job, it's probably a good sign that you should steer clear.
  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL 2013-02-11 09:25
    Smug Unix User:
    Why not obsqwerty the functions as well? You could even write an interpreter in Access and use your own obsqerty language.
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
  • TopTension 2013-02-11 09:37
    An 'A' for todays article title!
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 09:38
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
  • Roby McAndrew 2013-02-11 09:42
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.


    You are all reading the comments. The real software is written in whitespace.
  • VAXcat 2013-02-11 09:44
    At my first computer related job, I had worked my way up from tending a numerically controlled typesetting machine to System Manager of a PDP-11/70 system (at the time, that was a big deal). The company decided to cut costs by laying off all the machine tenders and telling me I could do both jobs at the same salary. I had no further interest in feeding tapes into readers, swapping cards in dedicated systems and cleaning out film processors, so I elected to move on to another company as a PDP System Manager. This caused no small amount of rancor at the old company, where "traitor" was the kindest thing I was called. Two weeks later, they called begging me to come back as a consultant and get the typesetting machines running again. I replied that I would be glad to, but I would require $1000.00 per hour cash in hand upfront to work on these old machines. They told me, this was madness. I replied, Exactly so and hung up the phone.
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 09:48
    PunctuallyChallenged:
    when the previous guy in your position walks out without lining up another job, it's probably a good sign that you should steer clear

    Doesn't necessarily mean that the boss is dysfunctional. A colleague of mine from another department once walked out without having a new job after finishing a module for our department. Looking at what he left us/his department, I couldn't help but wondering if he left because otherwise he would have had to maintain his own code. And I didn't blame him for leaving - he left an asynchronous, multithreaded monster that came back to haunt us every other week or so.
  • Anon 2013-02-11 09:52
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.

    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!

    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.


    15 Months?!?

    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

  • operagost 2013-02-11 09:57
    Fred:

    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    I informed them that basic professionalism would require me to give at least four weeks notice to my new employer, but I wasn't really interested in returning anyway.

    "Four weeks! Are you crazy? You only gave us two!"

    "But I wasn't in a management position with you. I am now."


    I'd go there after I left my new job for the day and charge them $250 an hour for emergency after-hours service.
  • RichP 2013-02-11 10:03
    QJo:
    And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.


    Oh boy did I mis-read that one. At first I had a totally different picture of how you obtained your position.
  • Valued Service 2013-02-11 10:07
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.


    Yes it would be in their best interest. If they don't help you, you'll call another recruiter who'll be eager to do so, and they lose their investment, plus lose the opportunity for you to return in 3-5 years. If they do help you, they'll find you another position and get the credit from the new job.
  • LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet 2013-02-11 10:11
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.

    A clever idea, but in these cases it'll probably be easier to reverse engineer the compiled code instead of attempting to understand the original.
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 10:13
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 10:18
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    faoileag:
    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
    A clever idea, but in these cases it'll probably be easier to reverse engineer the compiled code instead of attempting to understand the original.

    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.
  • LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet 2013-02-11 10:29
    faoileag:
    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.

    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace. Original quote:
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.
  • Cap'n Spanky 2013-02-11 10:31
    PunctuallyChallenged:
    The owner of a company I once worked for called me the day after he fired me, asking if I would come back as a contractor until he filled the position. The guy had screamed at me in the middle of a restaurant the night before and told me to "get the hell out." It wasn't his first screaming fit, but it was the first in a public place.
    Hey - I worked for that guy, too! Small Linux distro in the early 2000's. The CEO would regularly come out of his glass office and scream at the marketing folks. He went through marketing people like milk through dairy intolerants.

    My turn was one Monday morning after taking my wife and daughter up the coast for the weekend. He ran into a problem that Friday night and emailed me. I didn't get the email until Monday morning - about five minutes before being called into his office - which was about thirty minutes before I called a buddy from two jobs prior.

    The day I (re)started my new (old?) job, I got a call from the linux distro asking me to take a contracting position.
  • Amakudari 2013-02-11 10:37
    So, uh, you can just do something like

    Debug.Print sdfasds & sdafadf & asdfsaf


    And yet, it's still better than Microsoft's take on VBA security. Security through pity.
  • urza9814 2013-02-11 10:38
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    faoileag:
    Errm... if I recall correctly, VBA is a language interpreted inside some application... in this case: Access. There is no compiled code.

    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace. Original quote:
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.


    Both of which are also interpreted languages ;)

    You'd need to write a program that translates it to C, run it through gcc with heavy compiler optimization set, and THEN decompile and analyse.

    Or _perhaps_ if you find an existing C interpreter you could hardcode the input rather than translating the whole thing...I don't know enough about compiler optimization to know if that would work; my guess is probably not though...
  • DaveK 2013-02-11 10:42
    csrster:
    I had a friend who started her first graduate job as a museum curator, only to discover that her duties would include washing the floor.
    And throwing a bone for the dinosaur?
  • DaveK 2013-02-11 10:43
    TFA:
    spent a lot of his spare time learning as much as he could about various aspects of security
    LOL, is that a nice way of saying "was a script kiddie"?
  • faoileag 2013-02-11 11:03
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    I was commenting on Brainfuck and Whitespace.

    Oh. Sorry. You see, I thought that real tough obfuscation would involve a Brainfuck interpreter method for VBA that takes Brainfuck sources and returns whatever the Brainfuck sources give to stdout.

    Or in pseudocode:
    bfsrc = '+++---->>>'; // need to use some real Brainfuck here
    fieldname = runbf(bfsrc)
    update(fieldname, now);

    Problem is, you can still put the literal Brainfuck code into a standalone Brainfuck interpreter to get the fieldname...

    Ok, not yet enterprisey enough :-(
  • snoofle 2013-02-11 11:13
    Valued Service:
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.


    Yes it would be in their best interest. If they don't help you, you'll call another recruiter who'll be eager to do so, and they lose their investment, plus lose the opportunity for you to return in 3-5 years. If they do help you, they'll find you another position and get the credit from the new job.
    Your point is well thought out and fraught with common sense. Something (at least in my personal experience) recruiters seem to lack.
  • Anon 2013-02-11 11:20
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
  • emaNrouY-Here 2013-02-11 11:43
    With a "you think you've got it bad story," we are certain to see the Monty Python skit theme develop. And we have.

    As such, let me extra irritating. www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGAR75rgykM
  • Valued Service 2013-02-11 11:54
    I think I see a pattern here.

    Take previous "had it bad story".

    Shrink size of living quarters. Decrease sanitation of environment.
    Decrease health, sanitation, environment, and increase working hours and shame of work conditions.
    Increase brutality of father's abuse.
    Increase duration of work pay by a factor of larger scale of time measurement, and decrease pay.

    We used to have to live in an atom every day, get up and rearrange the sub-atomic particles so that a hole would open so we could leave for work. On our way out, we'd have to pass through the membrane of a tumor cell, exposing ourselves to radiation therapy in a dying patient at a dirty old hospital. We'd then work on cleaning the hospital's patients in the E.R. ward with our own spit. When we made it home, our father would crush us in a black hole. We did all this for a piece of used toilet paper for dinner.
  • Elron the Fantastic 2013-02-11 12:01
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.
  • Mike 2013-02-11 12:16
    I work in healthcare and the passwords for our radiation treatment machines are a algorithmic substitution. Essentially if you know one you know them all because of the pattern in substitutions. Some how this is seen as better than just having them all use the same password in the first place. These are otherwise fairly locked down machines so they aren't domain joined and it isn't like it is needed to manage user permissions on the corporate level or anything. Just ... dumb ... passwords. Vendors also use the same password at all sites for administration and if you work at a reasonably high level with the equipment you need the passwords to get the machine to do what you want so ... pretty much every technician in the world can hack your $3M treatment machine and make it kill patients if they wanted too. Perfect.
  • Guanxi 2013-02-11 12:24
    Elron the Fantastic:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.
    I used to work in a factory in China assembling Apple products.
  • Mason Wheeler 2013-02-11 12:27
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDcbO2bRxhg

    Probably the best example I've seen.
  • chubertdev 2013-02-11 12:27
    I wonder what the longevity is of people that are promoted to managers. I think that it's often a red flag. I've seen it happen often, and it's even happened to me once, where that is used as a substitution for increase in pay. I received more reponsibility with only a few more bucks in my pocket. Awesome.

    The icing on the cake was that the hiring for the people beneath me was done with very little of my input. The PHB would hire people based on his choices.

    When he re-hired a guy that was pretty much the cause for every single problem in our codebase without my input, that was when I walked out the door. Although it helped that I already had another job lined up...
  • Anon 2013-02-11 12:28
    Elron the Fantastic:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.


    Damn! That's just wrong.

    I think you win.
  • Sociopath 2013-02-11 12:32
    Fred:
    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    This is when you agree to provide consulting at $2500/hr. When they balk at the price, you ask them how much money they are losing by being down.

    ProTip: First hour paid in advance in cash; no exceptions.
  • jim 2013-02-11 12:34
    Cap'n Spanky:
    Hey - I worked for that guy, too! Small Linux distro in the early 2000's. The CEO would regularly come out of his glass office and scream at the marketing folks. He went through marketing people like milk through dairy intolerants.

    Come on, how many geeks do you know who've never fantasised about getting rich and starting their own company just so they can abuse the marketing department? This guy's just living the dream.
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-02-11 12:44
    PunctuallyChallenged:
    The owner of a company I once worked for called me the day after he fired me, asking if I would come back as a contractor until he filled the position.

    I was once "surplussed" out of a department and left to my own devices. I found another position within the company, and proceeded to field calls from my former department regarding code I'd maintained - not written, mind you, maintained. I'd had to figure it out for myself, why couldn't they? I finally had enough and said something to the effect of "If you need me so badly, why did you surplus me? Please don't call again, I have work to do here." They never called back.
  • chubertdev 2013-02-11 12:44
    chubertdev:
    I wonder what the longevity is of people that are promoted to managers. I think that it's often a red flag. I've seen it happen often, and it's even happened to me once, where that is used as a substitution for increase in pay. I received more reponsibility with only a few more bucks in my pocket. Awesome.

    The icing on the cake was that the hiring for the people beneath me was done with very little of my input. The PHB would hire people based on his choices.

    When he re-hired a guy that was pretty much the cause for every single problem in our codebase without my input, that was when I walked out the door. Although it helped that I already had another job lined up...


    Oh, and I should add that it took me 4-6 months of being a "manager" to find a new job. After that guy was hired, it took me two weeks to give new two week notice.

    Also, they don't have a chance of calling me up and asking me to come back, since smartphones give me the awesome ability to blacklist numbers. :D
  • herby 2013-02-11 12:50
    On "suffering":
    Uphill, in the snow, BOTH ways!
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-02-11 12:50
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Smug Unix User:
    Why not obsqwerty the functions as well? You could even write an interpreter in Access and use your own obsqerty language.
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.
    Oh, that explains it! All these years I've been dealing with highly secure requirements specifications and didn't realize it. I thought it was just laziness on the part of Management; I didn't realize it was a well-thought-out plan.
  • Rick 2013-02-11 12:50
    Valued Service:
    snoofle:
    Obsqwerty:
    I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week.

    It's been my experience that if a new job turns out to be unacceptably different from expectations, the LAST person you call is the recruiter that got you the position. If you think about it, their incentive is to keep you there long enough to get their commission (usually 3-6 months). It is NOT in their best interests to help you quickly find another job.


    Yes it would be in their best interest. If they don't help you, you'll call another recruiter who'll be eager to do so, and they lose their investment, plus lose the opportunity for you to return in 3-5 years. If they do help you, they'll find you another position and get the credit from the new job.
    Do you not understand who the customer is in this business relationship? If the employer were to even get a hint that a recruiter might be helping find other employment for an employee they just hired through them, that is the end of ANY future business for the recruiter. This is not to mention the contractual obligations. Really...
  • Anonymous Bosh 2013-02-11 13:08
    Luxury! We lived in a lake!
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-02-11 13:32
    chubertdev:
    I wonder what the longevity is of people that are promoted to managers. I think that it's often a red flag. I've seen it happen often, and it's even happened to me once, where that is used as a substitution for increase in pay. I received more reponsibility with only a few more bucks in my pocket. Awesome.
    There's a certain aerospace giant in the Seattle area with a habit of promoting people to management just prior to a strike, then demoting them back to worker after the strike is over. During the strike they get to sweep floors and clean toilets, but at least they're in management.
  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL 2013-02-11 13:46
    LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet:
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.

    A clever idea, but in these cases it'll probably be easier to reverse engineer the compiled code instead of attempting to understand the original.

    What compiled code? The Brainfuck/Whitespace interpreter is written in APL, and the APL is run on 6502 machine code.
  • jay 2013-02-11 13:53
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Yeah, you think that's tough? When I started out, we had to program in COBOL.
  • jay 2013-02-11 13:57
    Sociopath:
    Fred:
    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    This is when you agree to provide consulting at $2500/hr. When they balk at the price, you ask them how much money they are losing by being down.

    ProTip: First hour paid in advance in cash; no exceptions.


    While I've never had the chutzpah to ask for $2500 an hour, I've had several times when a former employer asked me to come back and do some consulting work, I really wasn't very interested, and so I quoted what at the time seemed to me an excessively high rate. A few times they've promptly agreed to pay it, in which case, okay, it wasn't a job I wanted to do, but if they were willing to pay a crazy rate, it was worth it. When they don't agree to pay it, fine, I didn't really want to do that job anyway.
  • jay 2013-02-11 14:00
    Hmm. This is the moral equivalent of putting a reinforced steel door on the front of your house with the latest, most secure deadbolt lock ... and then hanging a sign on the doorknob that says "key is under the big red flower pot behind the house". In both cases, only people who are willing to take the ten minutes effort required can get in. Good security against people who are both dishonest and incredibly lazy, though.
  • Fred 2013-02-11 14:03
    operagost:
    Fred:

    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    I informed them that basic professionalism would require me to give at least four weeks notice to my new employer, but I wasn't really interested in returning anyway.

    "Four weeks! Are you crazy? You only gave us two!"

    "But I wasn't in a management position with you. I am now."


    I'd go there after I left my new job for the day and charge them $250 an hour for emergency after-hours service.
    Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned the guy who was murdered. I wasn't kidding about that.

    No one confessed, but the rumors were that the deceased had cornered the company into giving him a little bit more money than the company really wanted him to have. No way was I going to extort those people. I was just glad to be away -- and not at all comfortable that they'd found my new work phone number.

    A few years later I happened to be interviewing elsewhere and the employer saw Mucking Furderers Inc. on my resume. (I'd been there too long to just leave a gap.) He commented, favorably, since he had a friend there.

    I took that as a lucky break and deliberately flubbed the rest of the interview.
  • Ingeneur 2013-02-11 14:03
    jay:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Yeah, you think that's tough? When I started out, we had to program in COBOL.


    Psht. When *I* started out, we had to program in PHP.
  • jay 2013-02-11 14:10
    Personally, I've only once quit a job after less than a year, and these days I wouldn't quit a job in less than 2 or 3 years unless it was really intolerable. Like the employer demanding that I do something that totally offended my morals, commit crimes that could land me in prison, or something of that sort.

    Because: (a) I don't want to make a snap judgement. Maybe the first week or first day on the job looks really bad, but if I gave it a few months things might get better. I routinely find that new jobs are tough for a while because it takes time to build up credibility, so at first my opinions aren't particularly valued, I'm not given the most interesting work, etc.

    (b) I don't want to get a reputation as someone who job hops. I recall once when I was involved in hiring someone, I saw a resume where the person had three months at one job, two weeks at the next, a year at the next, a few days at the next, etc. And I thought: I don't know if this guy gets bored or frustrated quickly and quits on his own, or if he's lazy or dishonest or incompetent and is quickly fired or forced to leave. But either way, do we want to hire him? No. I threw the resume away. I mentioned it to my boss at the time, and he commented that if someone had one such short job on his resume, okay, he took a job and then realized it was a mistake. No big deal. But when ALL his jobs are like that? The problem is not the job: it's him.
  • Bob 2013-02-11 14:13
    Ingeneur:
    Psht. When *I* started out, we had to program in PHP.
    Bollocks. No one programs in PHP. They just copy-paste.
  • chubertdev 2013-02-11 14:35
    jay:
    (b) I don't want to get a reputation as someone who job hops. I recall once when I was involved in hiring someone, I saw a resume where the person had three months at one job, two weeks at the next, a year at the next, a few days at the next, etc. And I thought: I don't know if this guy gets bored or frustrated quickly and quits on his own, or if he's lazy or dishonest or incompetent and is quickly fired or forced to leave. But either way, do we want to hire him? No. I threw the resume away. I mentioned it to my boss at the time, and he commented that if someone had one such short job on his resume, okay, he took a job and then realized it was a mistake. No big deal. But when ALL his jobs are like that? The problem is not the job: it's him.


    Hilarious. We just had a guy like that in here, at first we had assumed it was just contract positions. But when we found out that they weren't, I pretty much said the same thing as you.
  • Lambda Llama 2013-02-11 14:56
    faoileag:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Why stop there? It should be obvious that if you want to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.

    Still readable. Too easy. Use Whitespace.


    Still too easy... We don't need no steenkin' variables, data structures or code constructs.
    These are "just" declarative languages with funky syntax - let's try something new and completely different.

    ```s``s``sii`ki
    
    `k.*``s``s`ks
    ``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk
    `k``s`ksk


  • chubertdev 2013-02-11 14:58
    I'm just going to fast-forward and say that I learned to program by training dolphins to jump through two hoops that represented 0s and 1s, but could never get any program to do anything past print the phrase, "so long and thanks for all the fish."
  • Chris 2013-02-11 15:22
    This is a fail for sure. As a security engineer I would fail this review. In fact I would refuse to review this code in any detail at all.

    http://securityblog.howellsonline.ca - Real lessons on security.
  • HowItWorks 2013-02-11 15:39
    chubertdev:
    jay:
    (b) I don't want to get a reputation as someone who job hops. I recall once when I was involved in hiring someone, I saw a resume where the person had three months at one job, two weeks at the next, a year at the next, a few days at the next, etc. And I thought: I don't know if this guy gets bored or frustrated quickly and quits on his own, or if he's lazy or dishonest or incompetent and is quickly fired or forced to leave. But either way, do we want to hire him? No. I threw the resume away. I mentioned it to my boss at the time, and he commented that if someone had one such short job on his resume, okay, he took a job and then realized it was a mistake. No big deal. But when ALL his jobs are like that? The problem is not the job: it's him.


    Hilarious. We just had a guy like that in here, at first we had assumed it was just contract positions. But when we found out that they weren't, I pretty much said the same thing as you.
    Likewise, but we didn't find it funny. The new hire was cut lose during the probationary period. The guy interviewed well, but was soon obvious did not have basic understanding of coding, the IDE, or even usage of browsers.

    The added WTF, we noted the frequent job turnover. So we had HR contact previous employers and all gave good reviews and they would hire him again. Left us wondering at that disconnect.
  • PedanticCurmudgeon 2013-02-11 15:48
    Roby McAndrew:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.


    You are all reading the comments. The real software is written in whitespace.
    You guys are amateurs. You need to write in a language that looks like it should be readable, but isn't. I recommend forth, or it's modern cousin factor.
  • wsm66 2013-02-11 15:49
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
  • someone 2013-02-11 15:57
    So these are the original variable names?

    Not obfuscated/anonymized by TDWTF?
  • chubertdev 2013-02-11 16:15
    HowItWorks:
    Likewise, but we didn't find it funny. The new hire was cut lose during the probationary period. The guy interviewed well, but was soon obvious did not have basic understanding of coding, the IDE, or even usage of browsers.

    The added WTF, we noted the frequent job turnover. So we had HR contact previous employers and all gave good reviews and they would hire him again. Left us wondering at that disconnect.


    Oh, that's tougher, then. This guy did NOT interview well, and that saved us a bunch of time. The whole issue of interviewees usually being people without jobs really sucks.
  • Anon 2013-02-11 16:30
    wsm66:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    Anon:
    faoileag:
    QJo:
    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there
    4 months? You were lucky, with only 4 MONTHS!
    I once started at a company and within a few days realized that things were, well, a bit different there. I started to pass my resumee around after 15 Months, but in the end, since I didn't want to leave town at the time, it took me six years to get out.
    15 Months?!?
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the phone factory every day for a few tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!


    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.


    Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."


    And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
  • Jay 2013-02-12 00:01
    Guanxi:
    Elron the Fantastic:
    Oh you fortunate kids. I was once a camera man for Rosie O'Donnell; I had to film her every day.
    I used to work in a factory in China assembling Apple products.


    Ooh, get you with you fancy job lording it over the rest of us.
  • Jay 2013-02-12 00:04
    Oh, I see the WTF now. They tried to define all of those variables as strings, but most of them are actually variants.

    And what's wrong with doing Password = "P" & "a" & "s" & "s" & "w" & "o" & "r" & "d" like the rest of us security professionals do?
  • Spider Flyer 2013-02-12 00:38
    herby:
    On "suffering":
    Uphill, in the snow, BOTH ways!


    Which is actually possible, if you are on the top of Hill A and have to go to the top of Hill B.

    (It's just not uphill for the FULL distance...Also, the snow was literally knee deep.)
  • QJo 2013-02-12 03:50
    RichP:
    QJo:
    And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.


    Oh boy did I mis-read that one. At first I had a totally different picture of how you obtained your position.


    +100 (*helpless with giggles*)
  • QJo 2013-02-12 04:28
    Sociopath:
    Fred:
    I'd been at my new job about 3 days before the old place called and begged me to come back. "The system crashed and nobody can get it started. And we can probably put you in that manager slot now. But we need you back today!"

    This is when you agree to provide consulting at $2500/hr. When they balk at the price, you ask them how much money they are losing by being down.

    ProTip: First hour paid in advance in cash; no exceptions.


    Damn, that's where I've been going wrong - leaving the documentation in an acceptable state on leaving a job.
  • georgir 2013-02-12 05:15
    VAXcat:
    They told me, this was madness. I replied, Exactly so and hung up the phone.

    Wait, what? No Sparta? You botched such a good opportunity...
  • georgir 2013-02-12 05:22
    Bob:
    Ingeneur:
    Psht. When *I* started out, we had to program in PHP.
    Bollocks. No one programs in PHP. They just copy-paste.

    You copy-pasted that from a comment about Javascript...
  • QJo 2013-02-12 06:03
    PedanticCurmudgeon:
    Roby McAndrew:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    to keep things really secure, you need to write your business logic code in Brainfuck.


    You are all reading the comments. The real software is written in whitespace.
    You guys are amateurs. You need to write in a language that looks like it should be readable, but isn't. I recommend forth, or it's modern cousin factor.


    Topper hat on ...

    John Horton Conway's Game of Life has been demonstrated to be Turing-complete. Therefore it is possible to construct a virtual machine thathas all the functionality of a bricks-and-mortar computer. For a really challenging obfuscation, get your programming staff to write their programs in the form of a Life configuration on an arbitrarily-large square grid.
  • RRDY 2013-02-12 11:10
    Valued Service:
    I think I see a pattern here.

    Take previous "had it bad story".

    Shrink size of living quarters. Decrease sanitation of environment.
    Decrease health, sanitation, environment, and increase working hours and shame of work conditions.
    Increase brutality of father's abuse.
    Increase duration of work pay by a factor of larger scale of time measurement, and decrease pay.

    We used to have to live in an atom every day, get up and rearrange the sub-atomic particles so that a hole would open so we could leave for work. On our way out, we'd have to pass through the membrane of a tumor cell, exposing ourselves to radiation therapy in a dying patient at a dirty old hospital. We'd then work on cleaning the hospital's patients in the E.R. ward with our own spit. When we made it home, our father would crush us in a black hole. We did all this for a piece of used toilet paper for dinner.


    They're actually quoting a fairly well-known Monty Python skit.

    captcha: augue: I really don't wanna augue, but you really should know more about Monty Python.
  • Your Name 2013-02-12 12:51
    QJo:
    gnasher729:
    We once had an employee leave for another company and received a call on Monday morning 9:10 am asking if he could come back, that is ten minutes after he started work at the new company. He then stayed with us for many years. Must have had a similar experience.


    Happens more often than you'd believe. I can think of at least 5 people I've worked with who have gone away and come back in short order.

    Me, I've never actually gone back to the previous company, but I've got on the phone to the recruiter within the first week. I was lined up with a sweet number too, that first call, offering twice the money and considerably more responsibility - then I made the mistake of explaining that I'd just started in a job I wasn't a good fit for. And equally unfortunately it turned out that the person interviewing me was a personal friend of the owner of the company I was blowing out.

    It in fact took me 4 months to get out of there and into the next port of call.


    Never trust a recruiter, never tell a recruiter anything more than the bare minimum. They are in it for the money and will shit on you if they have to in order to make more. Same goes for companies... for as much as they screw recruits over, they lie even worse to the companies, claiming recruits have skills that are a pure fabrication.

    Companies know recruiters lie. Employees know recruiters lie. Why recruiters even exist is only because they have firmly entrenched themselves between companies and employees.
  • jay 2013-02-12 13:41
    Your Name:
    Companies know recruiters lie. Employees know recruiters lie. Why recruiters even exist is only because they have firmly entrenched themselves between companies and employees.


    So a company is considering two options: 1. Put an ad in the newspaper or on a website advertising a job opening. 2. Contact a recruiter and tell them you have a job opening.

    Option 1 is cheap, maybe a few hundred dollars depending on how long you run the ad. Option 2 is expensive, thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars. With option 1, you'll get a truckload of resumes from people who aren't remotely qualified for the job. With option 2, in theory the recruiter will filter out all the unqualified people and only send you resumes from people who are qualified for the job.

    But in practice, recruiters don't filter out unqualified people. Often they ... ahem ... "reformat" resumes to make unqualified candidates look qualified.

    So what, exaactly, is the advantage of using a recruiter? I suppose they filter out some of the most absurdly unqualified candidates, like if you're hiring for an IT job and the candidate has zero IT education or experience. But how much does that help? Surely you could buzz through resumes and quickly discard those anyway. I'd think you could hire someone to scan resumes like that for a whole lot less than what recruiters charge. If you have a problem with people calling or showing up at the office about a job instead of sending a resume, then don't put your company name or phone in the ad: just put a blind post office box or gmail/yahoo/some such email address. (Anyone smart enough to track down who's behind an anonymous email address should pass the first cut anyway.)

    I'd be amused to hear from a recruiter or an HR person what these folks really do have to offer for the amount they charge.
  • SztupY 2013-02-12 22:12
    Well, it takes around one minute to tell someone that the company actually uses BobX (or MUMPS).

    Then comes 8 minutes of constant struggle to resist a fatel hearth attack.

    And one more minute needs to be spent on the resignation letter.

    Yep, that's 10 minutes.
  • Gruntled Postal Worker 2013-02-14 00:12
    Confession:

    I once helped design and build a system where finally security was a functional requirement from the start. We really did our research, followed best practices and reviewed everything thoroughly, then ended up adding an 'admin/password01' account for administrative convenience.

  • Friedrice The Great 2013-02-15 20:50
    jay:
    Personally, I've only once quit a job after less than a year, and these days I wouldn't quit a job in less than 2 or 3 years unless it was really intolerable. Like the employer demanding that I do something that totally offended my morals, commit crimes that could land me in prison, or something of that sort.

    Because: (a) I don't want to make a snap judgement. Maybe the first week or first day on the job looks really bad, but if I gave it a few months things might get better. I routinely find that new jobs are tough for a while because it takes time to build up credibility, so at first my opinions aren't particularly valued, I'm not given the most interesting work, etc.

    (b) I don't want to get a reputation as someone who job hops. I recall once when I was involved in hiring someone, I saw a resume where the person had three months at one job, two weeks at the next, a year at the next, a few days at the next, etc. And I thought: I don't know if this guy gets bored or frustrated quickly and quits on his own, or if he's lazy or dishonest or incompetent and is quickly fired or forced to leave. But either way, do we want to hire him? No. I threw the resume away. I mentioned it to my boss at the time, and he commented that if someone had one such short job on his resume, okay, he took a job and then realized it was a mistake. No big deal. But when ALL his jobs are like that? The problem is not the job: it's him.


    I once left a job after 6 weeks. Why? I received a job offer paying $19K per year more!