Tales from the Interview

  • Joe Luser 2006-11-17 13:16
    <p>&quot;... and they paid me way too much money...&quot;</p><p>Priceless!</p><p>(first - how embarrassing)<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-11-17 13:24
    <p>
    </p><blockquote><p>A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to
    us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had
    one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a
    young guy so I looked past it. </p><p>The initial introductory
    interview with me went generally well, so I suggested that he also meet
    the senior members of my staff. I asked him to wait in the interview
    room for a few minutes while I gathered up my team leaders. We arrived
    back at an empty interview room; the programmer had up and disappeared.
    I check with the receptionist, look in the bathrooms, the lobby -- no
    one has seen him. On the way back to my office, an employee stops me in
    the hall and asks &quot;Who&#39;s that guy in Scott&#39;s office?&quot; </p><p>Sure
    enough, the tight-suited, sneaker-wearing programmer started wandering
    around the hallways and stopped in a manager&#39;s office. As he was
    reading a programming book off the shelf, I asked &quot;Excuse, me, what
    exactly are you doing?&quot; </p><p>&quot;Oh, while I was waiting I figured I&#39;d
    walk around to check out the place and read some of these books to see
    what kinds of programming languages you guy&#39;s use here.&quot; </p><p>While we decided not to hire the programmer, we did make immediate changes to our interview and security procedures. </p></blockquote><p>
    </p>So what? He dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.<br />
  • Annonymous 2006-11-17 13:25
    Apple Solaris?? It would have been a little more funny if they said Apple Solaris with the .NET Framework... a big jumble of 3 totally different platforms!! Totally WTF
  • unlisted_error 2006-11-17 13:39

    <p class="MsoNormal">I once interviewed at a very small electronics company and
    showed up in a nice suit and shiny shoes. The guy who interviewed me was
    wearing frayed cut-off jeans shorts, a Hawaiian shirt and open toed sandals
    without socks. He was both laid back yet very intense; I don&rsquo;t know how to
    describe him exactly. He turned out to be part of the higher level management.</p>



    <p class="MsoNormal">From there I interviewed another person, a remarkable lady
    who had a naked female mannequin in her office. She was in charge of project
    software development for embedded systems. She noticed my interest and noted
    that, &ldquo;that was a gift from my girl friend&rdquo;. I just said &ldquo;cool&rdquo; and went on
    with the interview. </p>



    <p class="MsoNormal">She tuned out to be one of the best bosses I&rsquo;ve ever had.
    The company was tragically a victim of the .com bust. The time I did work there
    will always have warm memories of what a work place can be like. The whole
    operation was like a big family. We once even had a giant squirt gun fight one
    summer day in the back parking lot. <span>&nbsp;</span>The
    squirt guns were provided by management and they joined in. The tubs you filled
    the guns from were filled with ice water!</p><p class="MsoNormal">Ah, those were the days....</p><p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>

  • Anonymous 2006-11-17 13:41
    <blockquote>So what? He dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.</blockquote><br />Probably due to the lack of enough common sense to realize that you shouldn&#39;t go snooping around someone&#39;s office, while they&#39;re not there, during a job interview.
  • SumDumGuy 2006-11-17 13:43
    <p>I used to do a lot of interviewing of candidates at my previous company.</p><p>&nbsp;A couple of my favorite gems:</p><p>&nbsp;<br />Q: What does the &quot;private&quot; keyword do in C# ?</p><p>A: Well, it&#39;s like, when you don&#39;t want your colleagues to know what you&#39;re doing.</p><p>Q: What is &quot;this&quot; in C# ?</p><p>A: Well, it&#39;s itself, isn&#39;t it?</p><p>Q: Could you walk me through the request-response cycle for a request to a web application, from the user&#39;s browser to the web server, and perhaps to a database, then back?</p><p>A: No.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Jnx 2006-11-17 13:47
    <p>I guess I&#39;m young and dumb. But I don&#39;t think all of those were such big wtfs. That young programmer probably weren&#39;t so experienced with professional lite and didn&#39;t realize the limits. Just teaching him something about that would probably make him not doing a similar mistake again. <br /></p><p>I don&#39;t think it&#39;s so weird that someone would have lot of things to say about their old company. Not after reading this site about how bad things really can be. I can&#39;t see why that would make him go nuts in other situations, assuming that the workplace he was interviewing for wasn&#39;t a major WTF in itself.</p><p>Guess I just don&#39;t like to judge people that easily. The &quot;these problems will always be around&quot; guy was funny though. :)<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • SomebodyElse 2006-11-17 13:47
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Q: Could you walk me through the request-response cycle for a request to a web application, from the user&#39;s browser to the web server, and perhaps to a database, then back?</p><p>A: No.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Well, you did give him bonus points for honesty, right??</p>
  • SumDumGuy 2006-11-17 13:58
    To be honest, I was so taken aback by his bluntness that I took a few seconds to collect my thoughts.&nbsp; Illogically, I found myself on the defensive...&quot;Erm, well, could you just try?&nbsp; Explain it a little?&quot;<br />
  • Walrus 2006-11-17 14:03
    <p>I remember many moons ago trying to persuade my boss at the time to interview a candidate, who had little programming experience but fantastic potential. The candidate was also &#39;getting on a bit&#39; and hadn&#39;t worked for 10 years. Eventually he was persuaded to interview him.</p><p>The interview by all accounts went very badly... my boss was fuming, it took some time to calm him down. There was a strong personality clash, and certainly different senses of humour. One of the answers had particulary rattled him.....</p><p>Boss: &quot;Why did you finish your last job?&quot;</p><p>Candidate: &quot;So I could come and work for you&quot;</p><p>Amazingly after more persuasion, my boss was conviniced into hiring him on a trial basis.</p><p>The company itself did very well and grew to 60 employees (from 3 when I joined), however some bad decisions were made and the company went under..... twice. Many people stuck around over a period of 6-7 years, but eventually enough was enough and there was a mass exodus.</p><p>The company still trades today, nearly 15 years on...... &#39;the candidate&#39; is their only employee.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • tiro 2006-11-17 14:03
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I guess I&#39;m young and dumb. But I don&#39;t think all of those were such big wtfs. That young programmer probably weren&#39;t so experienced with professional lite and didn&#39;t realize the limits. Just teaching him something about that would probably make him not doing a similar mistake again. <br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>That one wasn&#39;t really about professionalism so much as basic common sense and courtesy.&nbsp; If you go into someone&#39;s house, you really shouldn&#39;t snoop around in their medicine cabinet, but it&#39;s fine to read whatever they&#39;ve got lying on the coffee table.&nbsp; Why should it be any different in a business?&nbsp; <br />&nbsp;</p>
  • CodeRage 2006-11-17 14:03
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>So what? He dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.</blockquote><p><br />Probably due to the lack of enough common sense to realize that you shouldn&#39;t go snooping around someone&#39;s office, while they&#39;re not there, during a job interview.[/quote]</p><p>Yet every day I work with and fix boatloads of software WTFs made by people with excellent &quot;common sense&quot;. &nbsp; Go figure.&nbsp;</p>
  • Nick 2006-11-17 14:07
    <p><em>&quot;How often do you read tech-related news and blogs online?&quot; I asked</em></p><p>I&#39;d be worried to answer that, fearing it was a trick question trying to get you to admit that you spend all day at work reading Slashdot.</p><p>&nbsp;&quot;Oh, yeah, I read those kinds of sites all the time!&nbsp; But not when I&#39;m at work, never ever there.&quot;</p>
  • Michael 2006-11-17 14:09
    <p>I was lucky enough to have made the rounds of job interviewing not so long ago, below are from a couple of those experiences:</p><p>Medium-sized B2B company making customer-specific web applications in PHP and synchronizing with an IBM mainframe.&nbsp; I had already decided after meeting with the boss and his head programmer the environment would have driven me crazy.&nbsp; So while they were asking me some specific technical questions, I just couldn&#39;t help myself:</p><p>Q. What is the best way to iterate through an array of 300,000 objects in PHP4?<br />A: To not iterate through an array of 300,000 objects in PHP4.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />Not long after that I interviewed with a small telecommunications startup.&nbsp; In contrast to my previous experience, this environment was very clean and casual, the technology was fascinating and bleeding-edge, everything that made the .com era so much fun.&nbsp; I would have accepted the job in an instant if not for the following:</p><p>1.) I met my recruiter (it was a contract-hire) in the office lobby before my interview, where she briefed me on the history of the company and who I will be meeting with.&nbsp; Then she lowers her voice and proceed to tell me that the President doesn&#39;t have very good people skills.&nbsp; He&#39;s very smart she tells me, but not very easy to get along with at first, and she assures me I won&#39;t have to meet him on my first interview.<br /><br />2.) The first guy I talk to asks a bunch of personal and technical questions, then asks me how well I handle hostile co-workers.&nbsp; He then goes on to warn me that the President can be rather harsh sometimes, and people have left the company because they couldn&#39;t take getting their feelings hurt, some of them even cried.<br /></p><p>3.) Last guy to interview me tells me a story about the President spending an hour yelling at the programming staff about something the project lead did (the project lead was not present for the tirade), and was hurling insults left and right.&nbsp; He tells me he thinks the guy has a sugar imbalance, because after an explosion he eats a snickers bar, and 10 minutes latter he&#39;s your friend.&nbsp; It can be bad sometime, he tells me, but it only happens a couple times a week.<br /></p><br />
  • OldSunGuy 2006-11-17 14:12
    <p>I don&#39;t know if anyone else feels this way, but I always read these postings with some trepidation that I might recognize myself as the interviewee.&nbsp; Only after reading through the whole thing I can say to myself, &quot;I don&#39;t think that ever happened to me...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;It&#39;s the same with the code snippets being held up for ridicule.&nbsp; &quot;I hope that&#39;s not something I wrote...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • oGMo 2006-11-17 14:18
    <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />
  • Michael 2006-11-17 14:19
    <p>One time my boss gave me a couple of resumes to look over of candidate he was going to interview.&nbsp; Since I was going to be working with them, he wanted me to sit in on the interview.&nbsp; The first one was relatively standard, but one bullet point of the second candidate caught my eye:</p><p>&quot;Expert in all internet protocols&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;What?&nbsp; Well we just had to interview this guy.&nbsp; They interview itself went very well, then we brought up the bullet point.</p><p>&quot;Oh that?&nbsp; Yeah, I just got tired of the staffing companies asking me about lists of specific protocols.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;We hired him, and he turned out to be a great programmer, though we never did let him live down his resume.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Captcha: 1337 - That one&#39;s for you Gary!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Guy 2006-11-17 14:27
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p>
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 14:39
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>[quote]</p><blockquote><p>A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it. </p><p>..</p><p>&quot;Oh, while I was waiting I figured I&#39;d walk around to check out the place and read some of these books to see what kinds of programming languages you guy&#39;s use here.&quot; </p></blockquote><p>[/quote]</p><p>So what? He dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.<br />[/quote]</p><p>Agreed.&nbsp;&nbsp;Its not like he was sifting through the boss&#39;s email.&nbsp; It sounds like the guy was a bit socially awkward.&nbsp; But it also sounds like he&#39;s a natural problem solver.&nbsp; ie, he has a question so he seeks&nbsp;out an&nbsp;answer himself rather than sitting around waiting for&nbsp;it to&nbsp;be handed to him.&nbsp; Thats a good attribute.&nbsp; I&#39;ll take that attribute in a programmer any day over a vapid pretty-boy in a nice fitting monkey suit who brags about his MCSE.</p><p>For his&nbsp;suit - its possible there was a reason for his mix-n-match appearence.&nbsp; Especially&nbsp;if he was coming from another job and didnt want to show up there&nbsp;all dressed up (and thus advertise he&nbsp;had an interview).&nbsp;&nbsp; In my past 3 interviews I didnt even wear a suit (jeans and sneakers).&nbsp; Got 3 offers, accepted 2 of them.&nbsp; As one vendor of mine used to say... &#39;never trust a programmer in a suit&#39;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Jon 2006-11-17 14:39
    What about OSX with mono???
  • son of anonymous 2006-11-17 14:40
    Yeah. &nbsp;Apple Solaris definitely gets my vote. &nbsp;Particularly since he was so adamant about version 2.0!
  • CodeRage 2006-11-17 14:41
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Yeah, I&#39;m sure the company would prefer I spend my free time shopping for shiny new shoes, shirts, pants, suits, dry cleaning them every week, getting manicures, etc, etc, instead of spending my free time learning new technologies and improving the skills that will actually be important to the job at hand.</p><p>Heh, just kidding, dress well for an interview or else you look like an idiot.&nbsp;</p>
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 14:44
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • l1fel1ne 2006-11-17 14:44
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>I was lucky enough to have made the rounds of job interviewing not so long ago, below are from a couple of those experiences:</p><p>Medium-sized B2B company making customer-specific web applications in PHP and synchronizing with an IBM mainframe.&nbsp; I had already decided after meeting with the boss and his head programmer the environment would have driven me crazy.&nbsp; So while they were asking me some specific technical questions, I just couldn&#39;t help myself:</p><p>Q. What is the best way to iterate through an array of 300,000 objects in PHP4?<br />A: To not iterate through an array of 300,000 objects in PHP4.</p><p><br />Not long after that I interviewed with a small telecommunications startup.&nbsp; In contrast to my previous experience, this environment was very clean and casual, the technology was fascinating and bleeding-edge, everything that made the .com era so much fun.&nbsp; I would have accepted the job in an instant if not for the following:</p><p>1.) I met my recruiter (it was a contract-hire) in the office lobby before my interview, where she briefed me on the history of the company and who I will be meeting with.&nbsp; Then she lowers her voice and proceed to tell me that the President doesn&#39;t have very good people skills.&nbsp; He&#39;s very smart she tells me, but not very easy to get along with at first, and she assures me I won&#39;t have to meet him on my first interview.<br /><br />2.) The first guy I talk to asks a bunch of personal and technical questions, then asks me how well I handle hostile co-workers.&nbsp; He then goes on to warn me that the President can be rather harsh sometimes, and people have left the company because they couldn&#39;t take getting their feelings hurt, some of them even cried.<br /></p><p>3.) Last guy to interview me tells me a story about the President spending an hour yelling at the programming staff about something the project lead did (the project lead was not present for the tirade), and was hurling insults left and right.&nbsp; He tells me he thinks the guy has a sugar imbalance, because after an explosion he eats a snickers bar, and 10 minutes latter he&#39;s your friend.&nbsp; It can be bad sometime, he tells me, but it only happens a couple times a week.<br /></p><p><br />[/quote] </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Back in the dot-bomb days I was working for a fellow like that, except replace eating of a snickers bar with smoking a joint. The worst part is when he would tell off our best, and most&nbsp;loyal customers. Excellent support and service will only take you so far with a micromanaging&nbsp;jerk at the helm. Needless to say, the company went under :)</p>
  • JoeyLemur 2006-11-17 14:45
    <p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.</p><p>And yes, medication helps... :)</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Jon 2006-11-17 14:46
    <p>Q: What does the &quot;private&quot; keyword do in C# ?</p><p>Hehe... Effectively nothing since the default is private :)</p>
  • Radiantmatrix 2006-11-17 14:46
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I happen to agree with both you and the individual you were replying to.&nbsp; Your views aren&#39;t contradictory.&nbsp; The guy did come in wearing a suit -- even though it was ill-fitted and paired with sneakers.&nbsp; That shows that he was trying to be respectful and that he thought the interview was important.</p><p>For a technical position (and speaking as someone with experience as a hiring manger), it is important that the candidate be dressed in a way that shows his/her professionalism -- tidy, clean, and business-appropriate.&nbsp; The bad-suit-and-sneakers combo may not be stylish, but if it was clean then he gets points for the effort.</p><p>The <em>quality and/or fit</em> of the suit and the <em>type</em> of shoes worn with it only point to the candidate&#39;s sense of style and how able they are to afford nice clothes.&nbsp; A good sense of style might be important for a sales rep, but not for most entry-level tech jobs.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous Coward 2006-11-17 14:47
    [quote user="Anonymous"][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p>[/quote]


    This is always one of the arguments used, and it sucks. Importance in one area does not imply importance in another. Just because I don't want to dress up doesn't mean I don't want to write good code. Just because I don't think wearing a suit and tie is important doesn't mean I don't think 'software project X' is important.

    I realize that's just the way it is. But just because it's 'the way it is' doesn't mean it's the way it SHOULD be...

    If you REALLY want to get down on how the candidate dressed, the argument would be something like, 'if you won't dress up for this interview, how do we know you'll dress up for a presentation with upper management and clients?' That would be a better point (but still off a bit... upper management and clients aren't AT this interview, so one's dress there does not necessarily represent their dress in the presence of said people).
  • Corporate Cog 2006-11-17 14:49
    The &quot;whiner&quot; may actually meet one of <a href="http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html" title="&#39;look for passion&#39;">Spolsky&#39;s criteria</a> (aside from disparaging the surrounding restaurants).&nbsp; His former/current position may be that bad; perhaps that&#39;s why he&#39;s looking...<br />
  • zip 2006-11-17 14:53
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.<br /><br />[/quote]</p><p>It&#39;s not about how good you are.&nbsp; It&#39;s about how good you appear to be.&nbsp; Wearing a suit helps you appear good.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t need that extra edge, good for you, but don&#39;t pretend it isn&#39;t an edge.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Yakov 2006-11-17 14:56
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Apple Solaris?? It would have been a little more funny if they said Apple Solaris with the .NET Framework... a big jumble of 3 totally different platforms!! Totally WTF[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Oh god, please don&#39;t give any &quot;entrepreneurs&quot; any ideas!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • jes5199 2006-11-17 14:58
    <p>My personal rule of thumb is: don&#39;t fake it. If you&#39;re a lazy slob who likes to sleep late - like me - then don&#39;t pretend to be a type-A go-getter suave-in-a-suit. </p><p>Because, here&#39;s the thing, the people who hire you, well, they&#39;ll expect to see the guy they interviewed <span style="font-style: italic">every day.</span><br />So you might as well go as yourself, and only take the jobs that are actually compatible with your personality (and with your <span style="font-style: italic">actual skills</span>).</p><p>Maybe I&#39;m making less money because I&#39;ve never worn a coat and tie to an interview, but my schedule is flexible, and I have plenty of coffee, and decent technology to play with.<br /></p>
  • A Businessman 2006-11-17 15:00
    [quote user=&quot;SomebodyElse&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Q: Could you walk me through the request-response cycle for a request to a web application, from the user&#39;s browser to the web server, and perhaps to a database, then back?</p><p>A: No.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Well, you did give him bonus points for honesty, right??</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Personally, I appreciate an honest &quot;I&#39;m not familiar with that&quot; as opposed to someone attempting to BS their way through something. IMHO, I&#39;d rather hire someone who is <em>personable</em>, <em>reasonably </em>well qualifed and who has an open mind, than look for someone who is an expert in everything (who is?)</p>
  • Puma 2006-11-17 15:00
    I would have hired the kid in the poorly fitting suit. Who cares if he didn&#39;t wear dress shoes, or if his suit didn&#39;t quite fit, as long as he looked presentable that&#39;s all that matters. Now, about him being curious... I have found curiosity to be an awesome trait for developers to have. Sure, it might be seen as poor etiquite, but he was reading a book not sifting through underwear. He was searching for the answer to a question.
  • PseudoNoise 2006-11-17 15:00
    While everyone&#39;s complaining about the business dress story (MHO: putting on your best business suit for an interview is a sign of respect), I just wanted to say I LOL&#39;d at the &quot;Are you an astronaut?&quot;&nbsp; I&#39;d have wanted to find a hole to crawl into.&nbsp; Totally understandable, and totally embarassing.<br />
  • darin 2006-11-17 15:02
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p class="MsoNormal">I once interviewed at a very small electronics company and
    showed up in a nice suit and shiny shoes. </p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m surprised people still expect suits for interviews.&nbsp; I&#39;m in California though.&nbsp; I had an interview once and asked the recruiter if I should wear a suit, and he said of course.&nbsp; When I got there, it turned out he was the only person in the entire building with a suit (including the vest) and it didn&#39;t fit well.&nbsp; I stuck out badly.&nbsp; After I got the job, I found out he was basically the only person in the entire mid-size company that wore a suit.&nbsp; 8 years and 2 companies later, ex coworkers still laugh at me over this.</p><p>People may not remember the recruiter, even after describing his eccentricities.&nbsp; But when I say &quot;the guy in the suit&quot;, they suddenly remember and start laughing.<br /></p>
  • Zlodo 2006-11-17 15:04
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job, saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less WTF-ish.<br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Puma 2006-11-17 15:05
    [quote user=&quot;zip&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.<br /><br />[/quote]</p><p>It&#39;s not about how good you are.&nbsp; It&#39;s about how good you appear to be.&nbsp; Wearing a suit helps you appear good.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t need that extra edge, good for you, but don&#39;t pretend it isn&#39;t an edge.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;You can still look good in sneakers. One of my common interview outfits is a $100 pair of jeans that are a tad tore up, sneakers, and a nice brightly colored dress shirt&nbsp;(the bright color makes you memorable) with a&nbsp;blazer over it. It&#39;s fasionable, comfortable (which is important), and unique.</p>
  • Puma 2006-11-17 15:07
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job, saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less WTF-ish.<br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That is one of those interview questions that you should have a rehearsed BS response too. Even if you&#39;re thinking &quot;OMG, WTF, what a bunch of morons they were.&quot;</p>
  • Dear Lord 2006-11-17 15:09
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Apple Solaris?? It would have been a little more funny if they said Apple Solaris with the .NET Framework... a big jumble of 3 totally different platforms!! Totally WTF[/quote]</p><p>Well, Apple&#39;s OS is&nbsp;UNIX-based now.&nbsp; And there&#39;s that-there MONO project to&nbsp;port .NET&nbsp;over to&nbsp;LINUX.</p><p>Maybe this person was just way ahead of all of us. <img height="19" src="file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Tom.Wozniak/Desktop/emotion-4%5B2%5D.gif" width="19" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Captcha is &#39;clueless&#39;. Indeed.</p>
  • UMTopSpinC7 2006-11-17 15:11
    I have seen a resume with someone claiming be working towards their &quot;Bachelorette of Science&quot;. I wonder if she ever got it?<br />
  • anon 2006-11-17 15:12
    This outfit sounds like you are going on a date.&nbsp; Most likely your boss will be older than you and you should dress accordingly.&nbsp; Does anyone remember ties?&nbsp; Like a brightly colored dress shirt, they draw attention, just in a bit more sophisticated way.<br />
  • A Businessman 2006-11-17 15:14
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job, saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less WTF-ish.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That is one of those interview questions that you should have a rehearsed BS response too. Even if you&#39;re thinking &quot;OMG, WTF, what a bunch of morons they were.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>How about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>It&#39;s pure BS, but applies to just about any IT project on the planet, and get&#39;s past the question.</p>
  • Shawn 2006-11-17 15:15
    Penicillin, bed rest and lots of fluids.&nbsp; You should be back to work in a week or so.<br />
  • ptomblin 2006-11-17 15:17
    <p>The only time I haven&#39;t worn a suit to a first interview (except for jobs I didn&#39;t want) was during a heat wave with temperatures in the high 90s.&nbsp; I didn&#39;t have a/c in my car, and I asked my pimp to ask the client if it would be ok.&nbsp; Probably just as well, because I would have stunk something awful by the time I drove across town in a suit.<br /></p><p>I graduated as an engineer rather than a computer programmer, and actually had a seminar on the psychology of job interviews.&nbsp; We were told that you wear the suit not because it says anything about you or your abilities, but as a sign of respect to the interviewer.&nbsp; Whether conciously or not, they want to know that you prepared for the interview, you didn&#39;t just drop in on your way to something else.&nbsp; It&#39;s also important to ask specific questions that show you know something about the company interviewing you.&nbsp; If it&#39;s a big company that everybody has heard of (Kodak or Xerox, say), ask questions that show you know something about the division or group that is interviewing you.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • UMTopSpinC7 2006-11-17 15:17
    <p>[quote user=&quot;A Businessman&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] </p><p>I&#39;ve
    learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if
    they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still
    better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they
    suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left
    your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a
    compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason
    might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if
    you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job,
    saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with
    people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may
    think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different
    way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed
    off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less
    WTF-ish.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That is one of those interview questions
    that you should have a rehearsed BS response too. Even if you&#39;re
    thinking &quot;OMG, WTF, what a bunch of morons they were.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>How
    about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is
    being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough
    work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves
    toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking
    for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is
    a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>It&#39;s pure BS, but applies to just about any IT project on the planet, and get&#39;s past the question.</p>[/quote]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p>
  • ptomblin 2006-11-17 15:22
    [quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&quot;I&#39;m so smart and good and fast that I make everybody else on the project look bad by comparison&quot;</p><p>&quot;Because my code never has bugs in it, I don&#39;t get a chance to debug code much.&quot;</p><p>&quot;I work too hard and for too little money.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • darin 2006-11-17 15:22
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<br /><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>There a difference in dressing up a little and actually having fashion sense.&nbsp; People with ill-fitting suits almost never know that they&#39;re ill fitting, or may not have had time to buy a new suit and have it tailored in time for the interview.&nbsp; (being middle aged, I have learned that suits that are hung in the closet for ten years will shrink :-)</p><p>(I once spent 11 months looking for a job.&nbsp; I think that wearing a tie made me lose out on a few offers, indirectly.&nbsp; Ie, sitting in the interview, uncomfortable, with a noose around my neck.&nbsp; Late in the game one company finally told me what they liked and disliked about me.&nbsp; My drawbacks were that he thought I was way too formal, answered questions correctly but too succinctly, and that I would have been a great candidate if only I had loosened up a bit so that it felt like I would have fit in.)<br /></p>
  • Bill 2006-11-17 15:26
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>&nbsp;You can still look good in sneakers. One of my common interview outfits is a $100 pair of jeans that are a tad tore up, sneakers, and a nice brightly colored dress shirt&nbsp;(the bright color makes you memorable) with a&nbsp;blazer over it. It&#39;s fasionable, comfortable (which is important), and unique.</p><p>[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You interview so much that you have an entire outfit laid out for just that occasion?&nbsp; Jeez.&nbsp; If I had to wear the same thing next interveiw as I wore to the last, I&#39;d be just a tiny bit past the good fashion sense date.&nbsp; How often do you change jobs, anyway?<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Nina 2006-11-17 15:27
    My response was, &quot;I wanted to try being a full-time mother, and learned that I suck at being a mother and I&#39;d much rather be a programmer&quot;.
  • A Java Guy 2006-11-17 15:28
    [quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;A Businessman&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] </p><p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job, saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less WTF-ish.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That is one of those interview questions that you should have a rehearsed BS response too. Even if you&#39;re thinking &quot;OMG, WTF, what a bunch of morons they were.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>How about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>It&#39;s pure BS, but applies to just about any IT project on the planet, and get&#39;s past the question.</p>[/quote]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>In my case, this happens to be true (at least in some aspects of my job): &quot;My biggest weakness is that I tend to work faster than most, and have to keep reminding myself that not everyone is as fast as I am&quot;</p>
  • b0red 2006-11-17 15:38
    <p>[quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.[/quote]</p><p>I disagree. The &quot;dress test&quot; is a good way to see if the programmer has the ability to go out of his world of programming and into other domains. Come on people, a suit is pretty easy: go to your local department store, shell out a few hundred bucks, and get a nice taylored look. </p><p>If a programmer can&#39;t figure that out (sneakers, tight-fitting), then how can he be expected to solve real-world problems using anything but code? Sometimes a real-world problem can be solved with a 15-minute-to-create spreadsheet; not everything needs a 500-hour automation system. The &quot;suits are too complicated for me&quot; type of coders don&#39;t get that and need to be constantly baby-sat.</p><p>That said, knowing how to dress for an interview also requires common sense. Take this job for example: <a href="http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000185">http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000185</a>. I think you&#39;d look pretty foolish interviewing in a suit over there.</p>
  • Anonononymous 2006-11-17 15:40
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />While I agree about the suit, wearing sneakers with a suit is just bad. If you&#39;re going to wear a suit, don&#39;t stop at your feet.<br />
  • Anon 2006-11-17 15:41
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>&nbsp;You can still look good in sneakers. One of my common interview outfits is a $100 pair of jeans that are a tad tore up, sneakers, and a nice brightly colored dress shirt&nbsp;(the bright color makes you memorable) with a&nbsp;blazer over it. It&#39;s fasionable, comfortable (which is important), and unique.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;You spend $100 on jeans? WTF!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Josh 2006-11-17 15:48
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>[/quote]
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a solid coder.<br />
  • R.Flowers 2006-11-17 15:48
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>...</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>I can appreciate both of the above sentiments. I have heard that you should dress just a little better than the standard day-to-day attire of the people who work there. If they wear jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers you should wear a polo shirt, slacks, and loafers (or casual shoe). If they wear slacks and polos, you go with button-up shirt, and maybe a tie and sport jacket. If they wear a tie, have as nice a suit as you can afford.</p><p>Dressing appropriately is a sign of respect and earnestness. Just trying should be enough.</p><p>As for ability vs. appearance, there are extremes. I&#39;ve known programmers with good personalities (well, for geeks) that I could not work with all day, just because of the smell. Literally.&nbsp;</p>
  • John Bigboote 2006-11-17 15:49
    [quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Guaranteed winning answers:</p><p>&quot;Kryptonite.&quot;</p>&quot;My crippling and debilitating fear of clowns and spiders.&quot;
  • Jeff 2006-11-17 15:51
    <p>We posted an ad some time back looking for a desktop support/Jr. Network admin type person. In our ad, we asked for a candidate familiar with windows and windows networking. Basically we&#39;re looking for someone who can explain what their cable modem router does and troubleshoot simple problems hooking PCs up to a network.<br /></p><p>One resume stood out from the rest, from the college graduation date it was obvious the candidate was a young guy. Even still, he claimed to have expert level knowledge about virtually every bulletpoint in our ad. But this took the cake: &quot;As for windows and windows networking, I feel I know all there is to know.&quot;</p><p>Needless to say, I was overjoyed, because there are a couple questions I wanted to have answered. Sadly, I was voted down, and this bright young star recieved a stock &#39;thank you for applying&#39; letter.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Fuming 2006-11-17 15:52
    [quote user=&quot;R.Flowers&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>...</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>I can appreciate both of the above sentiments. I have heard that you should dress just a little better than the standard day-to-day attire of the people who work there. If they wear jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers you should wear a polo shirt, slacks, and loafers (or casual shoe). If they wear slacks and polos, you go with button-up shirt, and maybe a tie and sport jacket. If they wear a tie, have as nice a suit as you can afford.</p><p>Dressing appropriately is a sign of respect and earnestness. Just trying should be enough.</p><p>As for ability vs. appearance, there are extremes. I&#39;ve known programmers with good personalities (well, for geeks) that I could not work with all day, just because of the smell. Literally.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I personally bathe twice daily because I work in close proximity to someone who believes that perfume should be purchased by the gallon, and applied with a power sprayer. Just my luck - I finally get a nice office with actual walls and a door, and they put an animal in the cage with me (sighs)</p>
  • Sam 2006-11-17 15:52
    <p>I&#39;m amused by all the &quot;You wouldn&#39;t have hired the guy in the bad suit?&nbsp; OMG you suck!&quot; comments.</p><p>Read the description again.&nbsp; The way the guy was dressed was a bit odd, but that isn&#39;t the reason that they bailed on him.&nbsp; He essentially ignored a polite request and decided to do whatever it was he wanted.&nbsp; He showed no sense of propriety, walking into and poking around someone else&#39;s office without an invitation.&nbsp; Overall, in the space of a few minutes, he managed to exhibit a stunning lack of common sense.&nbsp; I don&#39;t want someone who will take that same amazing lack of common sense and apply it to my code, my build system, my servers, or my company&#39;s customers.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • RogerC 2006-11-17 15:58
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I don&#39;t think it&#39;s so weird that someone would have lot of things to say about their old company. Not after reading this site about how bad things really can be. I can&#39;t see why that would make him go nuts in other situations, assuming that the workplace he was interviewing for wasn&#39;t a major WTF in itself.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Perhaps his gripes were legitimate. However, a person old enough to have graduated from college should have enough maturity to know when and where such griping is appropriate, and enough self-control to enact that knowledge. This candidate was lacking in one or both.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • themagni 2006-11-17 16:13
    [quote user=&quot;RogerC&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I don&#39;t think it&#39;s so weird that someone would have lot of things to say about their old company. Not after reading this site about how bad things really can be. I can&#39;t see why that would make him go nuts in other situations, assuming that the workplace he was interviewing for wasn&#39;t a major WTF in itself.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Perhaps his gripes were legitimate. However, a person old enough to have graduated from college should have enough maturity to know when and where such griping is appropriate, and enough self-control to enact that knowledge. This candidate was lacking in one or both.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Indeed. &quot;Knock &#39;Em Dead&quot; should be considered mandatory reading for anyone looking for work. It covers how to deal with questions like this that leave a good impression.</p><p>The last place I interviewed for didn&#39;t care why I was leaving.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • themagni 2006-11-17 16:14
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Some 30-something MetroSexual&quot;]<p>&nbsp;You can still look good in sneakers. One of my common interview outfits is a $100 pair of jeans that are a tad tore up, sneakers, and a nice brightly colored dress shirt&nbsp;(the bright color makes you memorable) with a&nbsp;blazer over it. It&#39;s fasionable, comfortable (which is important), and unique.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;You spend $100 on jeans? WTF!<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Yeah, no kidding.</p><p>I get my jeans at Costco. $15 / pair for blue, $20 / pair for black. They fit well, they&#39;re made in Canada (yes, that&#39;s right, NOT in China!), and they&#39;re not covered with paint. (WTF is up with that?) <br /></p><p>People spend too much on stuff like that. An ad on the radio the other day said, &quot;Guys, you can get a haircut, style, shampoo all for just $85.&quot;</p><p>It&#39;s a good thing I was stopped at the light or I might have crashed the car.&nbsp;</p>
  • Richard Nixon 2006-11-17 16:32
    Anonymous:
    My response was, &quot;I wanted to try being a full-time mother, and learned that I suck at being a mother and I&#39;d much rather be a programmer&quot;.


    So you, uh, gave the kid back? Ate it? What?

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Richard Nixon 2006-11-17 16:34
    Anonymous:
    <p>I&#39;m amused by all the &quot;You wouldn&#39;t have hired the guy in the bad suit?&nbsp; OMG you suck!&quot; comments.</p><p>Read the description again.&nbsp; The way the guy was dressed was a bit odd, but that isn&#39;t the reason that they bailed on him.&nbsp; He essentially ignored a polite request and decided to do whatever it was he wanted.&nbsp; He showed no sense of propriety, walking into and poking around someone else&#39;s office without an invitation.&nbsp; Overall, in the space of a few minutes, he managed to exhibit a stunning lack of common sense.&nbsp; I don&#39;t want someone who will take that same amazing lack of common sense and apply it to my code, my build system, my servers, or my company&#39;s customers.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>


    If the clothes didn't influence the decision, why was it mentioned?

    Why don't you read the description again?

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Paul Robinson (vagueware.com) 2006-11-17 16:35
    <p>I once worked for a major national ISP in the UK as a senior engineer, and despite being only 20 years old, was quite senior in the engineering team. I was roped in to interview for a new engineer, and reluctantly agreed.</p><p>One of my standard questions - because ISP is such a weird little sector to work in, or was then - was &quot;if you were given a big pile of cash, and asked to build an ISP capable of X million users from day one, what would you go out and buy and why?&quot;. Most people flunked this: they just didn&#39;t know what a data center needed, and I was looking for answers along the lines of &quot;BGP4 router, you&#39;re going to need a way of terminating your SDH, you&#39;re going to want a few RADIUS servers, etc.&quot;</p><p>The best candidate did know all that. He got it almost perfect, but at the end when he finished I asked him if he&#39;d left anything out. He thought for a moment, and said &quot;nope&quot;. He&#39;d designed the world&#39;s most beautiful dial-in intranet with absolutely no external connectivity. Modem racks, servers, you name it, but not even a single megabit of bandwidth - he&#39;d remembered the BGP4 router, but forgot he might need to connect it to something. </p><p>I forgave it as nervousness and made a suggestion we hire him, because he at least knew what a modem rack was. Alas, I was over-ruled by senior management and they hired some guys who didn&#39;t even know what the Internet was. Classy move.<br /></p>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 16:37
    <p>Interview stories are fun.</p><p>At least for me, as I always struggle with the non-technical part (I feel tense when I have to talk to people I&#39;ve never met before, especially when I know it&#39;s some kind of test).</p><p>As for the technical part, I once ended up screaming with the interviewer (we&#39;ve had a little argument about the possibility of field declarations in a Java interface), then I grabbed a keyboard, looked up the part proving me in the JLS and finished with &quot;I wouldn&#39;t work in this cesspool even if you payed twice the money I need&quot; and walked out.</p><p>Obviously I feel a bit embarrassed about it now but I think apart from the touchy-feely issues I&#39;ve done the right thing.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Richard Nixon 2006-11-17 16:39
    Anonymous:
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a solid coder.<br />


    Oh that's probably the dumbest thing posted in this thread so far.

    Let's apply your logic to some other things:
    If someone doesn't care enough to take the trash out when it's full, they probably don't care enough to put their child in a car seat.
    If someone doesn't care enough to hold the door for someone, they probably don't care enough to call 911 when someone is having a heart attack.

    Here's a newsflash anonymous swine, people place different value on different things. Just because someone cares about one thing does not mean they have that same level of care for everything else.



    sincerely,

    Richard Nixon
  • Krakerjack 2006-11-17 16:56
    <p>Wow i&#39;m actually shocked to see that people believe their appearance doesn&#39;t matter during an interview.</p><p>I don&#39;t necessarily think a suit is required.&nbsp; Nice pants, a button shirt, perhaps a tie, polished shoes are an absolute must.&nbsp; Sure if you have a PH.D from MIT or you helped develop TCP/IP who cares what you look like, but come on people grow up.&nbsp; The whole trick is to give them the least amount of reasons to dislike you.</p><p>If you showed up to an interview in Jeans, you honestly look like an idiot.&nbsp; Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 16:56
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I don&#39;t know if anyone else feels this way, but I always read these postings with some trepidation that I might recognize myself as the interviewee.&nbsp; Only after reading through the whole thing I can say to myself, &quot;I don&#39;t think that ever happened to me...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;It&#39;s the same with the code snippets being held up for ridicule.&nbsp; &quot;I hope that&#39;s not something I wrote...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>Why? I know I sometimes write code that can easily appear here.</p><p>if( this == null ) return ERROR; //the downside of search-replace refactoring </p><p><br />I&#39;m not proud of it, but things like this do happen. You just have to try to avoid them and the only way to achieve this is by reading your code again and again. Possibly once again a couple of days later.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • newfweiler 2006-11-17 17:01
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]My response was, &quot;I wanted to try being a full-time mother, and learned that I suck at being a mother and I&#39;d much rather be a programmer&quot;.[/quote]</p><p>(Interviewer thinks:&nbsp; And how did you dispose of your children?&nbsp; Is about to ask, but doesn&#39;t.&nbsp; A long, uncomfortable silence ensues.)</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • BradC 2006-11-17 17:02
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.[/quote]</p><p>I disagree. The &quot;dress test&quot; is a good way to see if the programmer has the ability to go out of his world of programming and into other domains. Come on people, a suit is pretty easy: go to your local department store, shell out a few hundred bucks, and get a nice taylored look. </p><p>If a programmer can&#39;t figure that out (sneakers, tight-fitting), then how can he be expected to solve real-world problems using anything but code? Sometimes a real-world problem can be solved with a 15-minute-to-create spreadsheet; not everything needs a 500-hour automation system. The &quot;suits are too complicated for me&quot; type of coders don&#39;t get that and need to be constantly baby-sat.</p><p>That said, knowing how to dress for an interview also requires common sense. Take this job for example: <a href="http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000185">http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000185</a>. I think you&#39;d look pretty foolish interviewing in a suit over there.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Or this one: <a href="http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000184">http://jobs.thedailywtf.com/1001/listing.aspx?JobId=1000184</a></p><div><font face="Verdana"><em>We</em></font></div><div><font face="Verdana"><em>...are the creative agency you didn&#39;t know existed in St. Louis</em></font></div><div><font face="Verdana"><em>...do not ask you to work with stupid people</em></font></div><div><font face="Verdana"><em>...eat lunch at every restaurant Downtown</em></font></div><div><font face="Verdana"><em>...will send you home if you wear a tie to the interview</em></font></div>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 17:06
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>On the other hand you might argue that wearing a suit for an interview is the same as lying during an interview. I choose casual clothes, usually plain black jeans and t-shirt because that&#39;s what I wear all the time. Plus if you&#39;re not used to wearing suit you&#39;ll look very silly.<br /></p><p>But then I&#39;m not really good in interviewing.&nbsp;</p>
  • Carnildo 2006-11-17 17:10
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I&#39;ve learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason might hurt your chance to get the new job.[/quote]</p><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>So far, I haven&#39;t had to BS that question.&nbsp; For the last three jobs I&#39;ve had, the correct answers were &quot;project was finished&quot;, &quot;project was finished&quot;, and &quot;I finished my Bachelor&#39;s degree and wanted to pursue a career in my field of education&quot;.</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>(On that last one, I&#39;m glad I left when I did.&nbsp; Another year, and the answer would have been &quot;Company went bankrupt&quot;)</div>
  • Ayende Rahien 2006-11-17 17:20
    [quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>if( this == null ) return ERROR; //the downside of search-replace refactoring<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Um, why??</p><p>I don&#39;t like the ERROR part, since it usually means a global variable, but there are valid reasons to do this.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />This code is probably C++, where it is certainly possible to get to this point. I have written such code (that tests for this == null) to handle NullObject pattern.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 17:21
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote] But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a solid coder.<br />[/quote]</p><p>But again, you&#39;re falling into the same trap... you have absolutely <strong>NO</strong> basis for that claim.&nbsp; You&nbsp;might &#39;feel&#39; that to be the truth because thats what you&#39;ve been told all these years... and thats fine...&nbsp;just&nbsp;dont try to pass it off as some sort of&nbsp;fact.&nbsp; </p><p>I could just as easily say that if someone is spending too much time making sure they&#39;re wearing stylish clothes and looking good, then they are obviously overly concerned with superficial trappings&nbsp;and are thus incapable of creating software that focuses on stability and functionality over a flashy interface.&nbsp;</p><p>imo, unless you are actually expecting the programmer to be out with clients and customers on some regular basis, worrying about the kinds of clothes they wear is pretty stupid - and probably a bad business decision at that.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-11-17 17:22
    [quote user=&quot;A Java Guy&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>In my case, this happens to be true (at least in some aspects of my job): &quot;My biggest weakness is that I tend to work faster than most, and have to keep reminding myself that not everyone is as fast as I am&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;I wonder how well the answer &quot;Interviewing&quot; would go over.&nbsp; In my case, of four jobs, I&#39;ve been hired three times &quot;with reservations.&quot;&nbsp; Meaning that they weren&#39;t sure about me, but were willing to give me a shot.&nbsp; In each case I have been given constant praise and significant raises and asked to stay on.&nbsp; As a result, I think my interviewing skills suck.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>captcha:&nbsp; &quot;truthiness&quot; how appropriate.&nbsp;</p>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 17:25
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a solid coder.<br />[/quote]</p><p>Once again this is stupid. Some of the most obfuscated code I&#39;ve seen comes from suit-and-tie coders. Just strip down the bells and whistles from your argument and you&#39;ll end up with: &quot;If you don&#39;t wear a suit you can&#39;t write clear code.&quot; Repeat this sentence ten times aloud to your dog or in front of a mirror. Do you feel how ridiculous this sentence is?</p><p>You assume that if you&#39;re wearing a suit you&#39;re being neat. Most of the time you will end up looking like a monkey in trousers and everyone will know that you wear that suit because you&#39;ve learned you have to. You don&#39;t really care, you just follow the rules without hesitation.<br /></p><p>Anyway, what if you go to interviews before/after you go to work?&nbsp;</p>
  • SwordfishBob 2006-11-17 17:28
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p>[/quote] This is always one of the arguments used, and it sucks. Importance in one area does not imply importance in another. Just because I don&#39;t want to dress up doesn&#39;t mean I don&#39;t want to write good code. [/quote]<br /><br />.. then there&#39;s showing you&#39;re willing to make an effort, in things that mightn&#39;t seem so important to you but do matter to other people.. <br />
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 17:28
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]If you showed up to an interview in Jeans, you honestly look like an idiot.&nbsp; Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp;&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>Until you&nbsp;get to the interview and realize you&#39;re the only one in the building wearing a suit.&nbsp; At that point, you no longer look sharp ... you look like a complete newbie tool right out of college.&nbsp; I prefer to go to an interview looking like the company <em>needs to prove to me</em> they are worth my talent.&nbsp; </p><p>But yes, one should always dress up for funerals and weddings!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 17:34
    [quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.[/quote] <p>I think, from now on whenever that question is asked in an interview, I will later ask the interviewer &#39;whats the biggest weakness of this company&#39;s management?&#39;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Zlodo 2006-11-17 17:34
    <p>[quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.[/quote]</p><p>I have much less problems with this one, as the actual answers in my case has little potential to put off a potential employer, while not sounding too cocky or bullshit-ish: &quot;I work too hard at first to prove myself and I tend to get burnt out too fast in the process&quot; (I can turn from Asok into Dilbert and then into Wally so suddenly that it&#39;s a bit scary), &quot;I say yes too easily&quot;, and &quot;I tend to be over optimistic when estimating things&quot;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]</p><p>If
    you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to
    show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress
    folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with
    how well he can design a system.<br />&nbsp;</p>[/quote]
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is
    more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to
    write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to
    wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow
    coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment
    your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a
    solid coder.<br />[/quote]<p>Those two things (dressing and designing/writing clean and commented code) are completly and utterly orthogonal.</p><p>I know plenty of well dressed people who write shittiest and careless code.</p><p>I know plenty of people poorly dressed or shaving once in a blue moon *cough*like me*cough* who care about clean and readable code above anything else (which is horribly frustrating when most of the other people in the team can&#39;t seem to give a shit and they just dump their code at the first remotely suitable place they can find)<br /></p>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 17:35
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>if( this == null ) return ERROR; //the downside of search-replace refactoring<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Um, why??</p><p>I don&#39;t like the ERROR part, since it usually means a global variable, but there are valid reasons to do this.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />This code is probably C++, where it is certainly possible to get to this point. I have written such code (that tests for this == null) to handle NullObject pattern.</p><p>&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>No, it&#39;s Java where &quot;this&quot; can&#39;t be null and ERROR is a constant so that part is perfectly okay.</p><p>What happend was somebody had written a static utility method in class A and I decided to tidy up the codebase and refactored it as an instance method of class B (where it really belonged to). I replaced all the references to a parameter of class B with &quot;this&quot;. &quot;if( param == null )&quot; is a perfectly sensible prerequisite check while &quot;if( this == null )&quot; is not.<br /></p>
  • maber 2006-11-17 17:36
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a solid coder.<br />[/quote]</p><p>This is quite simply a load of bull.&nbsp; There is rarely, if ever, a correlation between appearance and skill.&nbsp; The best Linux administrator I know goes to work sporting a mohawk.&nbsp; The most brilliant programmer I&#39;ve ever met is a gigantic dude who does consulting work in his pajamas from his own living room, and makes a six-figure income doing so.&nbsp; Both of these guys are excellent communicators, and document their work well.&nbsp; In my experience, the numbskulls were pretty evenly distributed among the well-dressed and the not-so-well-dressed crowds.&nbsp; I&#39;m sick to death of hearing/reading this argument.&nbsp; Hell, it isn&#39;t even an argument, it&#39;s a baseless claim pulled right out of thin air.</p><p>That said, I will not deny the fact that showing up to an interview in nice clothes is beneficial.&nbsp; If you&#39;re trying to get a job, you&#39;re more often than not competing against other applicants, and any advantage you can get is well worth having.&nbsp;&nbsp; Looking nice makes you memorable.&nbsp; However, if you&#39;re on the other side of the interview table, the things that matter are the applicant&#39;s skills and his dedication to doing the job.&nbsp; His appearance should be a second thought.&nbsp; If he needs to give a presentation, tell him to wear a suit that day.&nbsp; Otherwise, who really cares?<br /></p>
  • GrandmasterB 2006-11-17 17:36
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<br />.. then there&#39;s showing you&#39;re willing to make an effort, in things that mightn&#39;t seem so important to you but do matter to other people.. <br />[/quote]</p><p>But if someone interviews with me... he wouldnt be showing that since its not important at all to me.&nbsp; Rather, he&#39;d be showing me&nbsp;he&#39;s a tool who feels he has to dress up in order to make up for or distract from&nbsp;some perceived inadequacy in his technical skills.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • jes5199 2006-11-17 17:43
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.[/quote] <p>I think, from now on whenever that question is asked in an interview, I will later ask the interviewer &#39;whats the biggest weakness of this company&#39;s management?&#39;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;I&#39;ve had fair luck asking &quot;What&#39;s the worst thing about working here?&quot;<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-11-17 17:44
    <p>[quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]I prefer to go to an interview looking like the company <em>needs to prove to me</em> they are worth my talent.[/quote]</p><p>I would never, *ever* hire someone who came in with that attitude, no matter how good they were.&nbsp; A person who is so convinced of their talent that they think the world should bow to them smacks of egoism of the highest order.&nbsp; It&#39;s the exact same kind of person who doesn&#39;t keep up with new technology and methodology because they&#39;re convinced they already know everything.&nbsp;</p>
  • seymore15074 2006-11-17 17:46
    Right.&nbsp; But it has everything to do with not being able to make it past an interview...
  • seymore15074 2006-11-17 17:50
    [quote user=&quot;John Bigboote&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Guaranteed winning answer:</p><p>&quot;Kryptonite.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>OMG! That&#39;s the best answer-EVER!</p>
  • seymore15074 2006-11-17 17:50
    [quote user=&quot;John Bigboote&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Guaranteed winning answer:</p><p>&quot;Kryptonite.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>OMG! That&#39;s the best answer-EVER!</p>
  • GoatCheez 2006-11-17 17:52
    So, am I one of the only ones who actually takes the time to ask what the appropriate attire for the interview is? Most employers will be glad to tell you the standard company attire. If they say business casual though, ask for clarification as that has a very wide range. Also, even if it is the most laid back of all places and everyone works in the buff or pj&#39;s, I&#39;d still at least wear khaki&#39;s and a collared shirt... That&#39;s my though from the interviewee side. From the interviewer side I wouldn&#39;t give a shit really unless they stank like a bag of old grass clippings that&#39;s been rained on and sitting out in the sun for a week. Of course, if they had a look on them that says &quot;Say the wrong thing and the building goes boom&quot;, I would probably think twice...<br />
  • Rob M 2006-11-17 17:53
    <p>I&#39;ve worked as a consultant, at a small company, and at a very large comapany before that.&nbsp; In ever case I&#39;ve been interviewed, and also been involved in giving interviews and making hiring decisions.&nbsp; The way to know how to dress is very simple.&nbsp; Call the office admin at the business, or ask the HR person.&nbsp; Ask what the usual attire is for daily wear and what attire is common for interviews.&nbsp; If everyone shows up in a suit for interviews, show up in a suit.&nbsp; If the admin tells you that no one ever wears a tie, and &quot;dress up&quot; means long pants, then dress business casual.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If in doubt, dress up a little.&nbsp; &nbsp;You can easily get away with beeing too formal in your clothing for an interview.&nbsp; You will rarely recover from being too informal.&nbsp; You can&#39;t lose by calling and asking.&nbsp; It shows you are prepared and thinking ahead.</p><p>Remember that the interview is as much about you deciding if you want to work for the company as it is about them deciding they want you.&nbsp; Calling ahead to ask about dress code, finding out who you are likely to meet, and learning about the companiy&#39;s&nbsp;products or services ahead of time will improve your chances of getting hired and also tell you whether or not you want to be hired.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If you want to spend your days coding in ripped jeans and a Metallica t-shirt, don&#39;t apply at a company where you will be expected to wear a suit on a daily basis (like a financial company in New York).&nbsp; If you hate pointy haired bosses and process, turn down an inteview if you find out that you will be talking to 15 people in sequence, each of whom is going to want dental records, employment history, shoe size, previous work experience and a pint of blood.</p>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 17:53
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.[/quote]</p><p>I have much less problems with this one, as the actual answers in my case has little potential to put off a potential employer, while not sounding too cocky or bullshit-ish: &quot;I work too hard at first to prove myself and I tend to get burnt out too fast in the process&quot; (I can turn from Asok into Dilbert and then into Wally so suddenly that it&#39;s a bit scary), &quot;I say yes too easily&quot;, and &quot;I tend to be over optimistic when estimating things&quot;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]</p><p>If
    you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to
    show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress
    folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with
    how well he can design a system.<br />&nbsp;</p>[/quote]
    But is does have to do with how well they can WRITE a system. There is
    more to programming than simply designing the system - you have to
    write CLEAR code that others can READ.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t care enough to
    wear a suit to an interview, you probably don&#39;t care enough to follow
    coding conventions.&nbsp; You probably also don&#39;t care enough to comment
    your code.&nbsp; They might still be brilliant, but I&#39;d rather work with a
    solid coder.<br />[/quote]<p>Those two things (dressing and designing/writing clean and commented code) are completly and utterly orthogonal.</p><p>I know plenty of well dressed people who write shittiest and careless code.</p><p>I know plenty of people poorly dressed or shaving once in a blue moon *cough*like me*cough* who care about clean and readable code above anything else (which is horribly frustrating when most of the other people in the team can&#39;t seem to give a shit and they just dump their code at the first remotely suitable place they can find)<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>This whole suit issue comes from industries/positions where your abilities can not be measured easily .Lacking real clues you try to make some rough estimates based on things you are able to perceive.It&#39;s not logical but it&#39;s human, this ability helped us in survival for thousands of years.It&#39;s the basis of empirical science. You try to set up rules all the time without even knowing. When they work, you call them heuristics.<br /></p><p>However, it&#39;s also the source of superstitions. Somebody sees a black then breaks a leg cat the other day. He tries to find some connection between his perceptions but miscues. We ridicule them, if this happens.<br /></p><p>But the abilities of a developer are quite easy to test on the spot. A ten minute test of the design and coding principles and a simple coding assignment of thirty minutes can do the trick.</p><p>Still, our reflexes work. Even if it&#39;s not logical, I know&nbsp; interviewers look at what I wear. It&#39;s only I don&#39;t want to work at any place where this seriously matters. If I would be absolutely qualified for a job but the lack of a suit prompted the interviewer not to hire me then it&#39;s probably a wtf job. (Yes, this is another illogical, superstition-like assumption from me but I know no better way to avoid absolute wtf jobs.)<br /></p>
  • Carnildo 2006-11-17 18:00
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>One of my standard questions - because ISP is such a weird little sector to work in, or was then - was &quot;if you were given a big pile of cash, and asked to build an ISP capable of X million users from day one, what would you go out and buy and why?&quot;. Most people flunked this: they just didn&#39;t know what a data center needed, and I was looking for answers along the lines of &quot;BGP4 router, you&#39;re going to need a way of terminating your SDH, you&#39;re going to want a few RADIUS servers, etc.&quot;</p>[/quote]<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>The answer to that is quite easy: if you want an ISP capable of supporting X million users, the best thing to buy is an ISP that&#39;s already supporting about that many users.&nbsp; If it&#39;s having cash-flow problems, you should be able to get it at a discount.</div>
  • biziclop 2006-11-17 18:00
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]I prefer to go to an interview looking like the company <em>needs to prove to me</em> they are worth my talent.[/quote]</p><p>I would never, *ever* hire someone who came in with that attitude, no matter how good they were.&nbsp; A person who is so convinced of their talent that they think the world should bow to them smacks of egoism of the highest order.&nbsp; It&#39;s the exact same kind of person who doesn&#39;t keep up with new technology and methodology because they&#39;re convinced they already know everything.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I prefer to look at it as a deal. The company wants to get something and I want to get something in return. If I don&#39;t feel it&#39;s worth for me, I call quits. If they don&#39;t feel so, they&#39;ll call quits. It&#39;s that simple. Once I was interviewing at a company that would have been good (and I would have been good for them) except for the fact I had had to travel 90 minutes and they wanted me to work from 8.30 in the morning. I told them honestly I can&#39;t manage it. They asked me what&#39;s the starting time I can manage. I said ten&#39;o clock. They said they can&#39;t accept it. I said thank you for the opportunity and goodbye.<br /></p>
  • jfruh 2006-11-17 18:01
    Longtime reader, first-time poster.&nbsp; I&#39;m pretty fascinated by the whole debate about dressing up for an interview.&nbsp; The rule of thumb I think involves figuring out what the corporate culture is and trying to match it, maybe a little dressier.&nbsp; The problem is, it can be hard to figure out what that&#39;s like before you arrive on site.<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>One thing that I think people are missing about the interview that prompted this is the combo of suit and sneakers.&nbsp; I think anyone who&#39;s not totally divorced from normal interactions with fellow humans knows that wearing sneakers with a suit is wildly inappropriate, fashion-wise.&nbsp; If you&#39;re going to wear sneakers, you should just wear casual clothes.&nbsp; It&#39;s not a matter of spending money -- you can get a pair of perfectly servicable dress shoes at the Salvation Army for less than $20 that will bear up under the casual scrutiny of a job interview for an IT job.&nbsp; Wearing sneakers with a suit means that you either (a) are being deliberately eccentric in your dress -- which I&#39;m all for, but I don&#39;t think a job interview is really the context for that, or (b) you&#39;re kind of crazy.</div>
  • John Doe 2006-11-17 18:08
    <p>I thought I&#39;d mention in case that somebody responsible of this site noticed, but the advert is clearly pornographic. Is there supposed to be pornographic adverts or not?<br /></p><p>I just think it&#39;s a bit weird to have a you know, clean site with just nerd stuff so I can browse it at work, but if there are pornographic images that I don&#39;t even notice until it is too late, like my boss showing behind my shoulder, well, I&#39;d just hate that.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>- John<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • SnoodDude 2006-11-17 18:10
    <p>The &quot;Always weat a suit&quot; crowd and the &quot;WTF!?! looks don&#39;t matter&quot; crowd are equally wrong.&nbsp; You&#39;re both being _WAY_ too black and white about things.<br /><br />For the suit crowd-&nbsp; I&#39;ve personally watched two of you get turned down for six-figure positions from a bay area games engineering company... period.&nbsp; Like _ALL_ choices of personal appearance- only three things matter- your audience, your audience and your audience.&nbsp; Suits appeal to Manhatten financial software firms... wearing a suit to a casual bay area company (no matter how well known or successful) makes you come off as a cocky prick who thinks that the answer to all life&#39;s problems is in your appearance and not in your actual ability.</p><p>&nbsp;Now, for the &#39;screw it, I go as me! shorts and sandals baby!&#39;... At some point, you&#39;ll have to grow up and realize that &quot;not being a tool&quot; and &quot;not being unappealing&quot; are two very different things.&nbsp; If you&#39;re a cocky, sandals and shorts type prick who acts like you&#39;re gods gift to programming... at some point, even a good company is going to decide that your personality will cause more detriment than any amount of god-given skills might benefit the company.&nbsp; Period, end of story.</p><p>&nbsp;The &quot;slightly better than day to day wear&quot; is a good bet...&nbsp; What&#39;s day to day wear at the company you&#39;re looking for?&nbsp; Take a moment out of your day of preening and find out... This goes without saying, doesn&#39;t it?&nbsp; You should walk into any job interview knowing as much as you can about the company and what they do, right? (I mean, you&#39;re actively trying to decide if you want to work for these people too, right?&nbsp; Not just vainly out begging to work for anyone who will give you a pay check?&nbsp; Desperation = unappealing)&nbsp; Spend a few hours researching their website, their press releases and their products, and you should have a pretty good idea of what type of people you&#39;re dealing with.</p><p>&nbsp;The biggest &quot;duh&quot; on here was the &quot;No&quot; answer.&nbsp; This is a personal pet peeve.</p><p>Engineering is a VERY broad field.&nbsp; When I&#39;m interviewing, one of the first things I like to do is get the &#39;bounds&#39; of the canidates knowledge and immediately push beyond them... why?&nbsp; Well, frankly, an innovating engineer is _always_ working over his head- dealing with new technologies, new ways of doing things, etc.&nbsp; I really don&#39;t care that much what a canidate actually knows at the moment he walks in the door (I mean, assuming he can cover the basics of software design&nbsp; and system theory)... what I care about is when I ask him some obscure runtime optimization problem specific to mobile handsets that he&#39;s never had to think about before- how does he respond?&nbsp; The only thing worse than simply saying &quot;No&quot; (being honest about being lazy) is bullshitting and being dead wrong.&nbsp; The best answers are always... &quot;Well, I&#39;ll be honest, I&#39;ve never encountered that in particular, but based on XYZ (correct basic facts) I&#39;m thinking perhaps ABC (an understandable, if not necessarily correct interpretation based on his core knowledge&quot;.</p><p>THIS is the skill that matters in engineering, and the skill that no amount of memorization will prepare you fore.&nbsp; Simply answer &quot;no&quot; to any of my questions without at least attempting to deduce a solution, and I will end the interview with you right there.<br /><br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • fhic 2006-11-17 18:22
    [quote user="GrandmasterB"][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.[/quote] <p>I think, from now on whenever that question is asked in an interview, I will later ask the interviewer &#39;whats the biggest weakness of this company&#39;s management?&#39;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>[/quote]
    There's nothing wrong with that! As an interviewee, I always ask that or a similar question ("what is this company's biggest weakness?") Some other good questions are "If I want to buy something like a book or a tool, how does the process work? How hard is it and how long does it take?). What’s the cost limit before the approval must go up the management chain?" and "How many projects have succeeded/failed in the last five years? To what do you attribute the failures?" If money is discussed at all (some interviews, particularly technical interviews, don't mention it) I'd ask a question about how raises and increases are determined. Now that I'm usually the interviewer, I rencosider an applicant if s/he doesn't ask those kind of questions.
  • W Sanders 2006-11-17 18:31
    <p>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Q: Could you walk me through the request-response cycle for a
    request to a web application, from the user&#39;s browser to the web
    server, and perhaps to a database, then back?</p>
    <p>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A: No.</p><p>Unless they guy is a web developer :-)
    AT least it&#39;s better answer than, &quot;well, the operating system asks the
    malloc daemon for a SOAP token and passes the NFS mount back to the NAS
    server.&quot;</p><p>There&#39;s usually no penalty for guessing, and certainly not for thinking out loud, but BS-ing is highly frowned upon.<br />
    &nbsp;</p>
  • Zlodo 2006-11-17 18:34
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]The &quot;Always weat a suit&quot; crowd and the &quot;WTF!?! looks don&#39;t matter&quot; crowd are equally wrong.&nbsp; You&#39;re both being _WAY_ too black and white about things.[/quote]<p>Well, I must admit that until now I only ever had interviews with video game development companies, so figuring the dress code was never much of a problem. Regardless of the company, it&#39;s always casual, nothing more. Basically whatever you&#39;d wear at home, given that what you&#39;d wear at home is suitable to go outside with. So I just shave, wear a buttoned shirt instead of a t-shirt to be just slightly more formal than the job normally requires, and I&#39;m good to go.</p><p>For the interview in the first company I worked at, I actually brought my Amiga in a sports bag (it&#39;s extended and mounted into a medium tower) to show the stuff I had made. Amigas had already been obsolete for years at the time, so it was a bit of a wtf on my part.<br /></p>
  • darin 2006-11-17 18:35
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>&nbsp;You can still look good in sneakers. One of my common interview outfits is a $100 pair of jeans that are a tad tore up, sneakers, and a nice brightly colored dress shirt&nbsp;(the bright color makes you memorable) with a&nbsp;blazer over it. It&#39;s fasionable, comfortable (which is important), and unique.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;You spend $100 on jeans? WTF!<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>For $100, I&#39;d sure hope they weren&#39;t &quot;a tad tore up&quot;.&nbsp; Maybe it costs $20 for the jeans, and $80 to pay someone to tear them up a tad.<br /></p>
  • darin 2006-11-17 18:56
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>If you showed up to an interview in Jeans, you honestly look like an idiot.&nbsp; Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>You must not be reading all this, because people have posted instances where this is not true, and where dressing up too much makes you look silly.&nbsp; It depends upon the locale and the company.</p>
  • MurdocJ 2006-11-17 19:02
    [quote user=&quot;CodeRage&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>So what? He
    dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection
    criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.</blockquote><p><br />Probably
    due to the lack of enough common sense to realize that you shouldn&#39;t go
    snooping around someone&#39;s office, while they&#39;re not there, during a job
    interview.[/quote]</p><p>Yet every day I work with and fix boatloads of
    software WTFs made by people with excellent &quot;common sense&quot;. &nbsp; Go
    figure.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So are you thinking that if someone is utterly clueless they write good code? <br />
    </p>
  • themagni 2006-11-17 19:08
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>So are you thinking that if someone is utterly clueless they write good code? <br />
    </p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Maybe they&#39;re hoping that the clueless will work for 60+ hours a week. After all, it&#39;s quantity, not quality.<br /></p>
  • Anonymous 2006-11-17 19:12
    <blockquote>&quot;Oh, while I was waiting I figured I&#39;d walk around to check out the
    place and read some of these books to see what kinds of programming
    languages you guy&#39;s use here.&quot;</blockquote>The real WTF here is that he managed to mix up the possessive and plural of &quot;guy&quot; in oral speech.&nbsp;
  • anonymous 2006-11-17 19:14
    <font color="#0000ff" size="2"><p>(1) After a cpl months at my current company, they started interviewing for Project Analysts. One of the ladies that came in asked during her interview, &quot;Is it okay that I&#39;m a heroin user. I usually take my lunch hour to go shoot up in the car, and then I can function better for the rest of the day.&quot;</p><p>-AND-</p><p>(2) At my last company, they brought in this lady who had 10+ yrs DBA experience, hardcore UNIX person. The CTO was really impressed with her experience. After the face-to-face interview, the lady left and the CTO came out and addressed the group of us. He said, &quot;Well, I wondered how she had so much experience! It totally explained it all when she told me she used to be a MAN!&quot;</p></font>
  • darin 2006-11-17 19:23
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>But again, you&#39;re falling into the same trap... you have absolutely <strong>NO</strong> basis for that claim.&nbsp; You&nbsp;might &#39;feel&#39; that to be the truth because thats what you&#39;ve been told all these years... and thats fine...&nbsp;just&nbsp;dont try to pass it off as some sort of&nbsp;fact. <br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Even if this is not true, there are people that believe it.&nbsp; That means that you may have someone interview you that believes it, and lose a job because of it.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Maybe you&#39;ll say &quot;I wouldn&#39;t want to work there anyway&quot;, but what if it was just one single person that preferred the other candidate because of that, and a person you would not have had to work closely with?&nbsp; Would you dismiss an entire job that you might have liked because one of the HR people thought suits were a requirement?</p><p>There may be people that are the opposite; who will downgrade anyone who wears a suit as being too pompous to write good code.&nbsp; They may exist but they&#39;re much rarer.&nbsp; So odds are you&#39;ll do better by overdressing than underdressing.</p><p>I&#39;m not saying you have to have a suit and tie and all that, but just dress one notch better than you normally do.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t know much about the people at the company, then dress two notches better.&nbsp; Then you can scale it back down at the second interview if necessary.&nbsp; No one expectes the candidate to wear the same sort of clothes they would on the job, so it&#39;s not a &quot;lie&quot; to dress up.<br /></p>
  • triso 2006-11-17 19:41
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]
    <p>I personally bathe twice daily because I work in close proximity to someone who believes that perfume should be purchased by the gallon, and applied with a power sprayer. Just my luck - I finally get a nice office with actual walls and a door, and they put an animal in the cage with me (sighs)</p>
    [/quote]<font size="+1">T</font>alk to someone in HR and tell them you think you are allergic to the perfume.&nbsp; They are trained to deal with multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS).&nbsp; Strewth!
  • triso 2006-11-17 19:52
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<font color="#0000ff" size="2">
    <p>(1) After a cpl months at my current company, they started interviewing for Project Analysts. One of the ladies that came in asked during her interview, &quot;Is it okay that I&#39;m a heroin user. I usually take my lunch hour to go shoot up in the car, and then I can function better for the rest of the day.&quot;</p>
    <p>-AND-</p>
    <p>(2) At my last company, they brought in this lady who had 10+ yrs DBA experience, hardcore UNIX person. The CTO was really impressed with her experience. After the face-to-face interview, the lady left and the CTO came out and addressed the group of us. He said, &quot;Well, I wondered how she had so much experience! It totally explained it all when she told me she used to be a MAN!&quot;</p>
    </font>[/quote]<font size="+1">D</font>o you work in California?<br />
  • MurdocJ 2006-11-17 20:03
    [quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>Interview stories are fun.</p><p>At least for
    me, as I always struggle with the non-technical part (I feel tense when
    I have to talk to people I&#39;ve never met before, especially when I know
    it&#39;s some kind of test).</p><p>As for the technical part, I once ended
    up screaming with the interviewer (we&#39;ve had a little argument about
    the possibility of field declarations in a Java interface), then I
    grabbed a keyboard, looked up the part proving me in the JLS and
    finished with &quot;I wouldn&#39;t work in this cesspool even if you payed twice
    the money I need&quot; and walked out.</p><p>Obviously I feel a bit embarrassed about it now but I think apart from the touchy-feely issues I&#39;ve done the right thing.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m glad I don&#39;t work with either you or your interviewer.&nbsp;</p>
  • enterprisey! 2006-11-17 20:08
    whew! made iit thorugh without my story being mentioned...

    i once interviewed in the bay area after working my normal, gruelling job. it was so gruelling that, well, i was looking for work - HAAAAAARD.

    anyway, i'm waiting in the hall, this guy comes and gets me, he opens his door for me and i go and sit down.

    as soon as i sat down, i started thinking... "hmmmm, this chair isn't the normal interview kind of chair..."

    then i hear it, "excuse me, you are sitting in my chair."

    i look up and remember thinking, "when is my next interview?" there is was sitting in this poor guy's chair, behind his desk and all he could do was ask me to get out of his seat.

    needless to say, i didn't get that job. -lol-

    then there was the boss from h*ll TBFH. he seems to get around.

    i interviewed with a group of folks and they all liked me pretty well and thought i'd be a great fit. then it was time to interview with the TBFH. one of my prior interviewers takes me to his office and he responds, without taking his eyes off his two desktop and 3 laptop monitors, "it isn't 2:00 yet" in a gruff voice. you woulda thought if he took his eyes off the monitors the building would collapse.

    well, he was right. it was 1:58.

    anyway, he interviews me for a bit and we start discussing SPC (statistical process control). he asks what sample size is correct and i said it is an economic tradeoff between cost and effort of getting the samples and expected return of getting the information, but a typical sample size is 4 inspections.

    he asked me why i thought that number was good. i said i used my textbook as a basis for the number since i didn't know anything about an actual problem. he took issue with me and said his number was better. he picked the 3 or 4 number that i didn't pick.

    "we must've read different SPC books."

    i left knowing i didn't want that job b/c this dude was an idiot.

    anyway, i ended up getting hired down in san diego and a few months later i received a call asking me if i were still interested in working for that company - TBFH had moved along.

    "no thanks, i'm happily employed in sunny san diego."

    i *hate* interviewing - and i wear nice suits, too. i still hate it. it doesn't help that i'm in my 40s and look like i'm 25 (i still get carded when buying beer). anyway, i don't particularly want to look 15+ years older just to have a better shot in an interview... maybe when i'm 60 i'll start getting some "distinguished" credibility just by looking the part.
  • Alexis de Torquemada 2006-11-17 20:16
    [quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]A sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.[/quote]

    <p>Well, I hope your company gets all the self-absorbed <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/brazil_model_dc">Armani suit</a> and <a href="http://members.aol.com/jackjs/glove3.jpg">Bruno Magli shoes</a> wearing a$$holes it deeply deserves.</p>

    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]
    <p>Q: Could you walk me through the request-response cycle for a request to a web application, from the user&#39;s browser to the web server, and perhaps to a database, then back?</p>

    <p>A: No.</p>
    [/quote]

    I can use Frontpage, hence I am a web programmer. Brillant!

    [quote user=&quot;themagni&quot;]
    <p>I get my jeans at Costco. $15 / pair for blue, $20 / pair for black...</p>

    <p>People spend too much on stuff like that.</p>
    [/quote]

    <p>I don&#39;t know about Costco jeans, but cheap stuff often comes with a big catch (that you aren&#39;t aware of when buying, otherwise they wouldn&#39;t sell anything). I bought some shoes at a shoe discounter one and a half years ago (I think they are called Oxfords in English-speaking countries) and they seemed just great - nice look, comfortable and very affordable.</p>

    <p>Now the catch is... not much more than a year later, one of the pairs already started to fall apart, the soles are disintegrating. On both shoes, so it&#39;s not very likely not a rare defect. At first, the damage seemed slight but after further wear the soles have several stripe-shaped holes and are no longer waterproof, IOW the time has come to throw them away - already. These 30&euro; (IIRC) seemed a true bargain but they were not well spent. On the other hand, I&#39;ve heard of shoes that have cost five times that amount or more but were passed on from father to son.</p>

    <p>A different example: energy-saving lamps. Many people think that these are expensive, and if you compare the purchase price to ordinary light bulbs, they are right. But if you take the much longer life expectancy and much lower electricity usage into account, things are very much reversed! You can do the math yourself - an ordinary 60W bulb lasts about 1000h, in which time it will obviously consume 60 kilowatt hours of electricity. In Germany that means that the amount of money spent on operating that light bulb over its life-time exceeds its purchase price by about 2400% (in words: two thousand and four hundred percent).</p>

    <p>So at the risk of sounding like a manager: A light bulb has an excellent purchase price but a very poor total cost of ownership. I.e. a light bulb is a good choice only if it&#39;s only very rarely used or only on for short periods of time (something that energy-saving lamps don&#39;t like that much), but certainly not in your living room.</p>

    <p>I would say the same thing goes for Apple vs. PC discounter (and Windows XP), but that&#39;s my opinion. In any way, when people wonder why I bought an &quot;expensive&quot; Mac notebook, they don&#39;t take into account how unhappy I&#39;d be with a crappy Dell (I have one at work and that&#39;s enough, thank you) or how much time I&#39;d have to spend to make Windows XP barely usable and secure, let alone <strong>fun to use</strong>. Of course there is some decent other hardware, and a modern Linux with KDE isn&#39;t bad, but then we&#39;re basically talking about the same price range, unless you are ignoring the fact that even supposedly &quot;premium&quot;, $3000, non-Apple notebooks like the Sony VAIO VGN-AR21S come with a slower processor than the new 17&quot; MacBook Pro, one and a half hours <strong>maximum</strong> battery life, 100 Mbps Ethernet, no FireWire 800, 533MHz RAM despite presence of a 667MHz FSB, two disks with same total capacity as one disk in the cheaper 17&quot; MBP (think about <strong>weight</strong> and <strong>power consumption</strong>), much slower CD burning, and so on. Not to mention the plastic case. :-)</p>

    [quote user=&quot;Krakerjack&quot;]Wow i&#39;m actually shocked to see that people believe their appearance doesn&#39;t matter during an interview.[/quote]

    <p>You are badly mistaken, on two accounts. The first is the implication that appearance doesn&#39;t matter because people called BS on the skip deep interviewer&#39;s quote. Read it again: There is a <strong>sharp</strong> young programmer who came <strong>highly recommended</strong> and yet at first he didn&#39;t even want to interview him because of a suboptimal suit and shoes.</p>

    <p>So in this case, appearance not only matters but <strong>takes precedence</strong> over technical skills. This would be understandable in extreme cases, like the candidate showing up in caveman rags and smelling of cow dung... but this wasn&#39;t the case here. And while you think a suit isn&#39;t necessary if appearance is decent and tidy (a point I emphatically agree with), the quoted interviewer <strong>did</strong> think that not only a suit, but a well fitting suit was mandatory to even get an interview.</p>

    <p>Your second mistake (correct me if I&#39;m overinterpreting your posting, though) is the implicit assumption that interviews are a kind of game, and that one should use all possible means to win that game. I disagree because an interview lasts for hours but a job often lasts for years. What would be the point if I manage to get hired by a company that I wouldn&#39;t want to work for in the first place, with people that I wouldn&#39;t want to work with?</p>

    <p>I don&#39;t believe in lying. Not necessarily because I&#39;m such a good person - it&#39;s just my experience that typically no lasting good comes from it. People will find out, and if lying to others often goes hand in hand with lying to yourself. Wearing things that do not feel like me (e.g. ties) is, in my eyes, lying, so I just don&#39;t. Is that so hard to understand?</p>

    <p>And that is one reason why, as long as I can afford skipping some opportunities that I heavily dislike, I will certainly not bend over to some corporate fucker who thinks that wearing a nice-fitting suit is an interviewee&#39;s primary qualification. My talents are certainly spent best in places where they are appreciated, don&#39;t you think? (Fortunately this is very much the case in my current job, my sympathies go to the less fortunate TDWTF readers.)</p>

    <p>Basically what I like to wear for an interview is very much what I would not be ashamed to wear for our traditional family lunch on Christmas. Things that are (1) decent and certainly not too fancy, (2) elegant and tidy, and (3) <strong>in my eyes</strong> look fashionable on me, and (4) that I feel <strong>suit my personality</strong> (excuse the pun), which means they need not tell all about me but they <strong>must not</strong> tell things that aren&#39;t true. For example: no sandals (fails tests 1 to 3), no sneakers (fails at least test 2), no hawaii shirt (fails at least tests 1 and 4), no muscle shirt (fails test 1), no torn jeans (fails tests 1 to 3). But also, I would not wear suits or ties because it&#39;s <strong>just not me</strong> (test 4) and basically if it&#39;s not me, then I probably do not think the stuff looks fashionable on me either (there goes test 3).</p>

    <p>An example of what I have worn, on the other hand, is: Unicolor black cotton pullover, intact dark blue jeans (of course in the proper size and all), dark red-brown shoes. If that&#39;s a problem someplace, e.g. if you think I&#39;m an &quot;idiot&quot; for wearing jeans, we wouldn&#39;t get along anyway in all likelihood, so let&#39;s not pretend.</p>

    <p>@John Doe: Bean bag girl is pornographic? WTF? You know, pornography involves depictions of a P and a V interacting in a way that&#39;s not a counting semaphore. Or at least some naked reproductive organs. A pretty girl sitting in a chair is not pornography unless you&#39;re a bible-thumping redneck. Even if she&#39;s barefoot. The mere fact that you get a hard-on from seeing a pretty girl in a chair does <strong>not</strong> make it pornography either. Hope that helps clear things up.</p>
  • Newt 2006-11-17 20:22
    You&#39;ve got to be kidding right? So far at my company, how dressed an engineering candidate is, is almost without exception inversely related to their qualifications and chances of getting hired.<br />
  • Newt 2006-11-17 20:23
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You&#39;ve got to be kidding right? So far at my company, how dressed an
    engineering candidate is, is almost without exception inversely related
    to their qualifications and chances of getting hired.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <br /></p>
  • R.Flowers 2006-11-17 20:44
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I thought I&#39;d mention in case that somebody responsible of this site noticed, but the advert is clearly pornographic. Is there supposed to be pornographic adverts or not?<br /></p><p>I just think it&#39;s a bit weird to have a you know, clean site with just nerd stuff so I can browse it at work, but if there are pornographic images that I don&#39;t even notice until it is too late, like my boss showing behind my shoulder, well, I&#39;d just hate that.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Are you talking about the one with the banana?&nbsp;</p>
  • Anon 2006-11-17 20:56
    <p>See this link</p><p>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code.htm">http://www.dba-oracle.com/dress_code.htm</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonononymous 2006-11-17 21:09
    [quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>. If I would be absolutely qualified for a job but the lack of a suit prompted the interviewer not to hire me then it&#39;s probably a wtf job. (Yes, this is another illogical, superstition-like assumption from me but I know no better way to avoid absolute wtf jobs.)<br /></p>[/quote]<br /><br />That&#39;s not irrational. I don&#39;t want to work somewhere where I need to where a suit. If I&#39;m told I have to<br />wear a suit to an interview, I can know that I don&#39;t want the job and save us both some time.<br />
  • tster 2006-11-17 21:20
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I happen to agree with both you and the individual you were replying to.&nbsp; Your views aren&#39;t contradictory.&nbsp; The guy did come in wearing a suit -- even though it was ill-fitted and paired with sneakers.&nbsp; That shows that he was trying to be respectful and that he thought the interview was important.</p><p>For a technical position (and speaking as someone with experience as a hiring manger), it is important that the candidate be dressed in a way that shows his/her professionalism -- tidy, clean, and business-appropriate.&nbsp; The bad-suit-and-sneakers combo may not be stylish, but if it was clean then he gets points for the effort.</p><p>The <em>quality and/or fit</em> of the suit and the <em>type</em> of shoes worn with it only point to the candidate&#39;s sense of style and how able they are to afford nice clothes.&nbsp; A good sense of style might be important for a sales rep, but not for most entry-level tech jobs.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote] </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That is very true.&nbsp; I showed up at work one day wearing khaki pants, a khaki shirt and black shoes and a black belt.&nbsp; I looked utterly ridiculous.&nbsp; But the point isn&#39;t that I dress badly.&nbsp; I didn&#39;t realize it until half way through the day when I remembered my girl friend making fun of me last time I wore the combination.&nbsp; THe point is that I take my job seriously enough to put on a button up shirt and tuck it in and such.&nbsp; And no, you don&#39;t have to do that and I don&#39;t on fridays either.&nbsp;</p>
  • Cheong 2006-11-17 22:30
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Apple Solaris?? It would have been a little more funny if they said Apple Solaris with the .NET Framework... a big jumble of 3 totally different platforms!! Totally WTF[/quote]</p><p>Actually, if I were the interviewer, I could be bluffed by this.</p><p>I&#39;m thinking he is installing MacOSX to a Solaris workstation, or installing SunOS to a Mac. :P<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Dwayne 2006-11-17 22:37
    [quote user=&quot;A Businessman&quot;]<p>How about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>[/quote]<br /><br />Right... and if your interviewer, after hearing that, isn&#39;t bright enough to sniff and go &quot;well look at that, a great steaming pile of bullshit has just landed on my head!&quot;, why would you want to work there?<br /></p>
  • The Canker of Your Words 2006-11-18 00:46
    I think that high horse might be a mule.&nbsp;<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>Apple&#39;s A/UX operating system was often referred to as Apple&#39;s &#39;Solaris&#39; when SysAdmins discussed it with others in the industry who didn&#39;t understand the intricacies of the OS. Especially when it became evident that the other party had no idea what A/UX was. That&#39;s probably exactly what he was referring to.<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div><div>A/UX was based on&nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; font-family: Times; font-size: 16px">SVR4, as was Solaris 2.0. Get the picture? While it&#39;s possible he was just wrong, there is a better chance he was right, and was trying to find some simple way to explain it to you. You should have listened.&nbsp;</span></div></div>
  • Anon E Mous 2006-11-18 00:49
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Wow i&#39;m actually shocked to see that people believe their appearance doesn&#39;t matter during an interview.</p><p>I don&#39;t necessarily think a suit is required.&nbsp; Nice pants, a button shirt, perhaps a tie, polished shoes are an absolute must.&nbsp; Sure if you have a PH.D from MIT or you helped develop TCP/IP who cares what you look like, but come on people grow up.&nbsp; The whole trick is to give them the least amount of reasons to dislike you.</p><p>If you showed up to an interview in Jeans, you honestly look like an idiot.&nbsp; Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why do so many people believe that an interview is a one-way thing?&nbsp; It&#39;s a chance for you to see if the company is somewhere you&#39;d actually want to work at, as much as it is for the company to decide if you&#39;re suitable.&nbsp; I love the comment about &quot;the whole trick&quot;.&nbsp; Screw that.&nbsp; If your ability doesn&#39;t stand out enough to win the job without tricks, you don&#39;t deserve it.&nbsp; For myself, I wear for interviews what I would wear to work day to day: jeans and a short sleeved shirt.&nbsp; It&#39;s been a conversation piece in a number of interviews, in fact.</p><p>&quot;Any reason in particular you chose to wear that to an interview?&quot;&nbsp; </p><p>&quot;Yep.&nbsp; If you were going to make a judgement on how I was dressed, I&#39;d know for sure this wasn&#39;t somewhere I&#39;d want to work&quot;</p><p>I got that job.</p><p>I&#39;ve politely thanked interviewers for their time and left interviews where comments were made on my clothing.&nbsp; I&#39;ve asked obviously uncomfortable interviewers if they felt my clothing was inappropriate, and politely thanked them for their time and left when they answered positively.&nbsp; Saves both sides wasted time trying to see if the square peg will fit in the round hole.<br /></p>
  • Nathan 2006-11-18 01:25
    It&#39;s stories like these that make me wish I could get programming interviews; it&#39;s not that I don&#39;t know how, it&#39;s that I don&#39;t have any professional experience outside the occasional freelance gig (and I don&#39;t have anywhere near the amount of freelance stuff I&#39;d need to be able to kick the day job). Any suggestions from the trenches on how to break in?<br />
  • dsfgsddsfgsdfgdsffg 2006-11-18 01:28
    <div>Here&#39;s an interview I had once as the interviewer with a candidate:</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;So I&#39;m going to ask you some technical questions now.&quot;</div><div></div><div>Him: &quot;Okay, great.&quot;</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;I&#39;ll start off really easy just to settle you down.&nbsp; What does HTML stand for?&quot;</div><div></div><div>Him: &quot;Hmm, umm, okay, umm, yeah, umm, umm, umm...&quot;</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;Okay, thanks, goodbye.&quot;</div><div></div><div>This guy claimed he had three years of web development experience.&nbsp; Yeesh.</div>
  • Rad Hard 2006-11-18 02:16
    <p>[quote user=&quot;jfruh&quot;]One thing that I think people are missing about the interview that prompted this is the combo of suit and sneakers.&nbsp; I think anyone who&#39;s not totally divorced from normal interactions with fellow humans knows that wearing sneakers with a suit is wildly inappropriate, fashion-wise.&nbsp; If you&#39;re going to wear sneakers, you should just wear casual clothes.&nbsp; It&#39;s not a matter of spending money -- you can get a pair of perfectly servicable dress shoes at the Salvation Army for less than $20 that will bear up under the casual scrutiny of a job interview for an IT job.&nbsp; Wearing sneakers with a suit means that you either (a) are being deliberately eccentric in your dress -- which I&#39;m all for, but I don&#39;t think a job interview is really the context for that, or (b) you&#39;re kind of crazy.[/quote]</p><p>jfruh is right! Everybody else talking about whether or not suits are appropriate is missing the point. The point here is that the guy tried look good by dressing in a suit and he <strong>failed</strong>. That, and wandering into somebody&#39;s office when asked to stay in the interview room, forcing people to hunt him down, shows <strong>bad judgement</strong>. More than enough reason not to hire the guy.</p><p>Captcha: paula</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • rob_squared 2006-11-18 02:29
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.
    Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past
    it.</blockquote><p>This certainly put <em>me</em> off.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to work for a company whose VP of Tech judged candidates based on how well their suit fit or whether they wear sneakers.<br />[/quote]</p><p>A little while ago I would have sided with you on this.&nbsp; But the thing I realized after a while was that its not really important what you look like, its just a sign of respect to wear a suit when showing up at an interview.&nbsp; Most jobs that I&#39;ve worked for or interviewed for had a pretty lax dress code.&nbsp; Its that first impression kind of mantra.&nbsp; Heck, I usually shave off my beard when going to an interview (only to grow it back later, hehe).<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Ferdinand 2006-11-18 02:49
    This is why I like to interview for small companies where the boss used to be more technical but is now looking for young people to take up the design and implementation while he trolls around golfing and drudging up more business.
  • Arancaytar 2006-11-18 03:51
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I don&#39;t know if anyone else feels this way, but I always read these postings with some trepidation that I might recognize myself as the interviewee.&nbsp; Only after reading through the whole thing I can say to myself, &quot;I don&#39;t think that ever happened to me...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;It&#39;s the same with the code snippets being held up for ridicule.&nbsp; &quot;I hope that&#39;s not something I wrote...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Right up to the bit where he snooped around in the bookshelf,&nbsp; the tight-suited guy was just like me. My second interview, ever.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>I even remember a big blooper from it - when the interviewer asked me a question about Keynesian economics.<br /></p><p>This was a market analyst firm. The question was high-school economics, standard level. And I was right out of high-school. Should have been prepared for it and expected it. Unexpectedly, they were still considering me for the internship after that.&nbsp;</p>
  • Gavin 2006-11-18 04:02
    "My lawyer says I'm not allowed to talk about it till the court case is over."

    For when you don't want the job, naturally.
  • stratos 2006-11-18 04:50
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<div>Here&#39;s an interview I had once as the interviewer with a candidate:</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;So I&#39;m going to ask you some technical questions now.&quot;</div><div></div><div>Him: &quot;Okay, great.&quot;</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;I&#39;ll start off really easy just to settle you down.&nbsp; What does HTML stand for?&quot;</div><div></div><div>Him: &quot;Hmm, umm, okay, umm, yeah, umm, umm, umm...&quot;</div><div></div><div>Me: &quot;Okay, thanks, goodbye.&quot;</div><div></div><div>This guy claimed he had three years of web development experience.&nbsp; Yeesh.</div><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;I do hope your joking, Ok given HTML is a pretty wel known acronym, but to send him away at just that is just plain stupid.</p>or you where offcourse looking for somone to write down the full versions of lots of tech acronyms.
  • biziclop 2006-11-18 05:22
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>Interview stories are fun.</p><p>At least for
    me, as I always struggle with the non-technical part (I feel tense when
    I have to talk to people I&#39;ve never met before, especially when I know
    it&#39;s some kind of test).</p><p>As for the technical part, I once ended
    up screaming with the interviewer (we&#39;ve had a little argument about
    the possibility of field declarations in a Java interface), then I
    grabbed a keyboard, looked up the part proving me in the JLS and
    finished with &quot;I wouldn&#39;t work in this cesspool even if you payed twice
    the money I need&quot; and walked out.</p><p>Obviously I feel a bit embarrassed about it now but I think apart from the touchy-feely issues I&#39;ve done the right thing.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m glad I don&#39;t work with either you or your interviewer.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>You may be right but I&#39;d be curious what would your reaction have been if an interviewer laughed in your face and told you &quot;You obviously don&#39;t know what you&#39;re talking about.&quot; when you knew you were perfectly right. (After all, this was not a question of opinions, he denied the facts written in the specification and tried to convince me I&#39;m stupid.)<br /></p>
  • miraculixx 2006-11-18 06:24
    <p>Also keep in mind that behaviour during interviews is a certain indication of future behaviour during work. And you sure don&#39;t want your programmers snooping around and finding solutions to problems that no one has ever told them about. Or do you, now?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • codeMonkey 2006-11-18 07:09
    <p><em>&quot;...or whether they wear sneakers...&quot;</em></p><p>You&#39;re (h)(f) ired: we only wear <u>Nike Chash</u>&nbsp;in this company :)</p>
  • NeoMojo 2006-11-18 09:21
    <p>I have been programming since I was 10. I have a Masters degree in Interactive Intelligent Systems. I have a sufficiently varied array of clothes, so that I can look presentable if needs be (which it does at my current job, they&#39;re the smart casual type, where they prefer you to be more on the smart side). I&#39;m friendly, I get along with people (and I try hard to), I know many IDEs and languages. </p><p>I am, in short, a good programmer and worker. </p><p>Unfortunately (until recently) I&#39;d only had about 6 months total industry experience, and a couple of freelance gigs.</p><p>Without the mystical 2-3 years industry experience I couldn&#39;t get a job. The best advice people could offer me was to somehow work a full time job to pay rent (in a call center) and work for some firm for free to gain experience.</p><p>In the end, six months ago, I got my break. I&#39;m now a bottom rung programmer at a financial institution.<br />&nbsp;<br />How did I get in you ask? My dad knows the head of IT.</p><p>So, you see, talented people are screwed.</p>
  • NeoMojo 2006-11-18 09:23

    <p>That was in reply to</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>
    <strong>Nathan</strong></p><p>
    I have been programming since I was 10. I have a Masters degree in Interactive Intelligent Systems. I have a sufficiently varied array of clothes, so that I can look presentable if needs be (which it does at my current job, they&#39;re the smart casual type, where they prefer you to be more on the smart side). I know many IDEs and languages. I am, in short, a good programmer and worker. Unfortunately (unitl recently) I&#39;d only had about 6 months total
    </p>
  • NeoMojo 2006-11-18 09:26
    <p>or infact</p><p><strong>nathan</strong> <br /></p><p>It&#39;s stories like these that make me wish I could get programming
    interviews; it&#39;s not that I don&#39;t know how, it&#39;s that I don&#39;t have any
    professional experience outside the occasional freelance gig (and I
    don&#39;t have anywhere near the amount of freelance stuff I&#39;d need to be
    able to kick the day job). Any suggestions from the trenches on how to
    break in? <br /></p>
  • mouseover 2006-11-18 10:05
    <p>Wow! Never seen this much web real estate and passion spent on geek clothing habits before. Must struck some deep-seated thingy in the collective IT psyche.</p><p>Captcha: initech -- wierdly like the name of an ex-employer&nbsp;</p>
  • b0red 2006-11-18 11:12
    [quote user=&quot;NeoMojo&quot;]I am, in short, a good programmer and worker. <p>Unfortunately (until recently) I&#39;d only had about 6 months total industry experience, and a couple of freelance gigs.</p><p>Without the mystical 2-3 years industry experience I couldn&#39;t get a job. [/quote]</p><p>Unles you live in the middle of nowhere, you are doing something wrong. </p><p>Perahps your resume sucks.</p><p>Perhaps your interview skills suck.</p><p>Perhaps your interpersonal skills suck.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I suspect that you&#39;re too arrogant, though. I&#39;ve seen the &quot;I&#39;ve been programming since I was 10&quot; mindset and&nbsp;it generally translates to &quot;I have 15 years programming experience.&quot; That, of course, laughable. Face the facts: you have ZERO experience and need a entry-level job. There are plenty of those out there.</p><p>Don&#39;t go into tech support, though. You&#39;re better to have no job than that. Keep looking, lower your ego and your expectations.</p>
  • webzter 2006-11-18 11:29
    <p>Wow... this basically turned into three pages of discussing how to dress for an interview. Who am I to buck that trend?</p><p>&nbsp;I&#39;ve been told, and read, that you should dress one degree higher than your interviewer. For an IT job, I think that&#39;s BS. If I&#39;m working with a recruiter, I just ask them what the dress code is and dress appropriately. Typically, though, I wear khaki&#39;s, a long sleeve shirt (untucked of course) and nice shoes (untied, most of the time). If I feel like dressing it up a bit, I&#39;ll tuck my shirt in and tie my shoes. I own a few suites but I&#39;ll politely decline any interview where the work attire is business professional... there are plenty of great places to work, why cramp my style?</p><p>&nbsp;I have had a few odd interviews. For one, I interviewed with two directors and then the VP. The directors interrupted the interview with the VP to give me an offer letter. I hadn&#39;t had a chance to meet the rest of the team or even discuss what my responsibilities were. I did take the job, but not until I figured a few things out.</p><p>I once had a really informal interview. You know, get together for coffee and all that, just to talk about potential opportunities at the company. It turns out that I had worked with one of the guys there before. They had an offer right after the meeting but I ran. I ran fast. You see, I used the time to interview them about their company and their prospects.</p><p>Actually, come to think of it, almost all of my interviews have been weird. For my current job, I had the time screwed up for my interview so I ended up showing up half an hour late. The hiring manager then proceeded to tell me about his group and what I would be doing for the next half an hour. At the end of that, he said &#39;well, I guess that concludes our interview, do you have any questions?&#39; I said that yes, I did, in fact... didn&#39;t he want to know anything about my skillset, my experience, if I knew anything, what my weaknesses were.. you know, those basic interview questions. He said no, he had already asked around. The director (his boss) called up with an offer about an hour later.</p><p>&nbsp;On the interviewer side of the table, I&#39;m actually a bit put off when someone shows up in a suit. If I worked in a structured environment, I would understand... but, we always tell our recruiters and interviewees that our dress code is khakis and a dress shirt casual month at the office. Overdressing just comes off as uppity. I never take into account what they&#39;re wearing, though. I&#39;m more interested in how they think and if they can reasonably explain their ideas and experience. Senior devs are expected to know more and be able to be leaders. Junior devs are expected to be able to think for themselves. Everyone should show that they can solve problems and demonstrate that I won&#39;t need to babysit them.</p>
  • Pasa 2006-11-18 12:30
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;] <p>if( this == null ) return ERROR; //the downside of search-replace refactoring<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Um, why??</p><p>I don&#39;t like the ERROR part, since it usually means a global variable, but there are valid reasons to do this.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />This code is probably C++, where it is certainly possible to get to this point. I have written such code (that tests for this == null) to handle NullObject pattern.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>There are no valid&nbsp;reason to do that. And in C++ you can not get to that point without invoking undefined behavior. And for that reason the compiler is free to remove the check entirely too.&nbsp; If you see such code consider it as a bug and go around fixing it. Not there, but at caller site, dereferencing the null pointer. &nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Pasa 2006-11-18 12:39
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;].. then there&#39;s showing you&#39;re willing to make an effort, in things that mightn&#39;t seem so important to you but do matter to other people.. <br />[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>LOL.&nbsp; So now do you hire a programmer or a precog?&nbsp; How do you know in adwance that the interviewer will be a jerk who is looking after your suit instead of your relevant skills -- or a real professional? Before getting there?</p><p>Btw I think this suit business is not that bad -- just keep your regular clothing, and you can avoid the suit-seeking companies who are left with the mediocre leftover anyway, while those looking for real and relevant values get the cream. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Pasa 2006-11-18 12:39
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;].. then there&#39;s showing you&#39;re willing to make an effort, in things that mightn&#39;t seem so important to you but do matter to other people.. <br />[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>LOL.&nbsp; So now do you hire a programmer or a precog?&nbsp; How do you know in adwance that the interviewer will be a jerk who is looking after your suit instead of your relevant skills -- or a real professional? Before getting there?</p><p>Btw I think this suit business is not that bad -- just keep your regular clothing, and you can avoid the suit-seeking companies who are left with the mediocre leftover anyway, while those looking for real and relevant values get the cream. </p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Dave 2006-11-18 13:51
    You don&#39;t read these websites at work? Even though it&#39;s work related? How else do you do research on subjects that are important to a work project? My boss brings me his IT magazines for me to read....delivers them to my desk! Gotta stay sharp....
  • Da' Man 2006-11-18 14:30
    <p>In a job interview for a position as System Admin I was asked to describe the process of sending a mail via SMTP. Well, I went into minute detail, including DNS-lookup for the MX record and all that stuff.</p><p>Just to hear from the current sysadmin (who was about to leave the company and obviously had problems to let go of his beloved servers) that I missed out the most important part: the firewall!</p><p>Well, yes, I also left out the Ethernet cables and the &quot;Send Now&quot; button in the mail app. Maybe they should have specified the level of detail they want to hear.</p><p>It was actually me who turned down that job. Not because of the Firewall but because of the old sysadmin.&nbsp;</p>
  • Pasa 2006-11-18 15:06
    <p>&gt;That means that you may have someone interview you that believes it, and lose a job because of it.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Maybe you&#39;ll say &quot;I wouldn&#39;t want to work there anyway&quot;,</p><p>Exactly what&nbsp;I would think. Do I want to mess with their nic-guy collecting habits?</p><p>&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;but what if it was just one single person that preferred the other candidate because of that, and a person you would not have had to work closely with?</p><p>Irrelevant --&nbsp;you may not work with him, but&nbsp;you will work with all the other people he hired. And not work with those he rejected.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Decide, who you want to work with, people who ara &quot;smart/get the work done&quot; or who care to spend money on clothes and/or show off?</p><p>&gt;Would you dismiss an entire job that you might have liked because one of the HR people thought suits were a requirement?</p><p>No place cen be better than the people&nbsp;working there, and a flawed recruitment process will definitely create a WTF company. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The ill case that may happen, the real recruiter is away and let some idiot do the job.&nbsp;</p><p>&gt;There may be people that are the opposite; who will downgrade anyone who wears a suit as being too pompous to write good code.</p><p>I&#39;m not very experienced in job-hunting,&nbsp;what I observed, young/fresh people tend to&nbsp;show up in suits&nbsp;while seasoned ones just come in &quot;natural&quot; form.&nbsp; As a recruiter the best thing you can do is be blind, and concentrate on the really important qualities you seek.&nbsp;&nbsp; And if the job actually has elements with dressing, and the candidate would not fit in present form, use the &quot;ask him&quot; magic. ;)</p><p>&gt;They may exist but they&#39;re much rarer.&nbsp; So odds are you&#39;ll do better by overdressing than underdressing.</p><p>If you&#39;re desperate to get the&nbsp;job whatever&nbsp;it takes, and whatever it turns out to be...&nbsp; Those who are picky will&nbsp;hardly benefit.&nbsp;</p><p>&gt;I&#39;m not saying you have to have a suit and tie and all that, but just dress one notch better than you normally do.&nbsp; </p><p>Is one notch so different from 0-notch, or whatever&nbsp;comes at hand?&nbsp;</p>
  • MurdocJ 2006-11-18 15:11
    [quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;]<p>Interview stories are fun.</p><p>At least for
    me, as I always struggle with the non-technical part (I feel tense when
    I have to talk to people I&#39;ve never met before, especially when I know
    it&#39;s some kind of test).</p><p>As for the technical part, I once ended
    up screaming with the interviewer (we&#39;ve had a little argument about
    the possibility of field declarations in a Java interface), then I
    grabbed a keyboard, looked up the part proving me in the JLS and
    finished with &quot;I wouldn&#39;t work in this cesspool even if you payed twice
    the money I need&quot; and walked out.</p><p>Obviously I feel a bit embarrassed about it now but I think apart from the touchy-feely issues I&#39;ve done the right thing.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m glad I don&#39;t work with either you or your interviewer.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>You
    may be right but I&#39;d be curious what would your reaction have been if
    an interviewer laughed in your face and told you &quot;You obviously don&#39;t
    know what you&#39;re talking about.&quot; when you knew you were perfectly
    right. (After all, this was not a question of opinions, he denied the
    facts written in the specification and tried to convince me I&#39;m stupid.)<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I wouldn&#39;t end up screaming at him.&nbsp; That I can guarantee. <br />
    </p>
  • MurdocJ 2006-11-18 15:13
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Also keep in mind that behaviour during
    interviews is a certain indication of future behaviour during work. And
    you sure don&#39;t want your programmers snooping around and finding
    solutions to problems that no one has ever told them about. Or do you,
    now?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>The question is whether you want them
    ignoring what you&#39;ve told them and just doing whatever they feel like
    doing, no matter how inappropriate it is.&nbsp;</p>
  • Kake 2006-11-18 16:03
    [quote user=&quot;newfweiler&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]My response was, &quot;I wanted to try being a full-time mother, and learned that I suck at being a mother and I&#39;d much rather be a programmer&quot;.[/quote]</p><p>(Interviewer thinks:&nbsp; And how did you dispose of your children?&nbsp; Is about to ask, but doesn&#39;t.&nbsp; A long, uncomfortable silence ensues.)</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;<br />Or maybe the interviewer managed to remember that children generally have two parents.<br /></p>
  • chooks 2006-11-18 16:29
    <p>Long time lurker -- first time poster, but I had to put in my two cents after reading the back and forth about dress code, level of knowledge, etc... Here&#39;s an (unfortunately altogether not uncommon) story.</p><p>Several months ago I interview a very well dressed invidividual for a Java position.&nbsp; It turns out he knows nothing about Java, but he he had worked for The Director when both were at another company, which is how he got the interview.&nbsp; Both of us interviewing give him the thumbs down and he is not offered a position.</p><p>Fast forward a couple of months and I have left the company to go back to school full time (entering medical school at 32 -- there&#39;s a WTF! :)&nbsp;but I still do consulting with them a couple of hours a week.&nbsp; Walk in one time to see this same guy who has taken over maintenance/enhancement of one of the Java apps after the normal guy left the company.</p><p>Moral of the story:&nbsp; The way you dress: irrelevant. What you know: irrelevant. Who you know: priceless.&nbsp; Thankfully this isn&#39;t the case in EVERY company, but that&#39;s the way it is in a lot of them.</p><p>&nbsp;And yes -- the googles still do nothing.</p><p>- N</p>
  • Tom Harrison 2006-11-18 18:41
    <p>Another long-time lurker with my own story from just a few weeks ago.&nbsp; I interviewed a guy for a Java Software Engineer position.&nbsp; His resume indicated that he had been writing Java for 8 years.&nbsp; He knew a lot of other things we needed too.&nbsp; I phone screened him and asked about the things he had done and there was a pretty good fit, so he came for an interview.</p><p>I started by indicating that I wanted to confirm his understanding of some Java basics.&nbsp; I asked him about how he might find a particular value in a string of known structure.&nbsp; He looked blank.</p><p>So I said, &quot;Let&#39;s say you have a web page in a String and you wanted to get it&#39;s title -- how would you do this?&quot;.&nbsp; He looked blank for a second.</p><p>Then, he said &quot;That wouldn&#39;t work.&nbsp; A string can only hold 255 characters and most web pages are bigger than that.&quot;</p><p>I said, &quot;Uh, I was referring to a java.lang.String.&quot;</p><p>He said, &quot;Yes, that&#39;s what I mean.&nbsp; It can only hold 255 characters.&quot;</p><p>I said, &quot;Not the String I am talking about, you know the String class from the Java language, which can hold a very large number of characters.&nbsp; Are you thinking of something else, like a char field in a database or something?&quot;</p><p>He said &quot;No.&nbsp; A java.lang.String can hold a maximum of 255 characters.&quot;</p><p>Now I looked blank.<br /></p><p>At which point, the interview had taken the requisite 5 minutes.&nbsp; I thanked him for his time and showed him out.<br /></p>
  • Paolo Perrotta 2006-11-18 19:13
    <p>From &quot;The Wanderer&quot; tale:<br />&gt;A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for
    interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore
    sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I
    looked past it.</p><p>You seem to imply that casually-dressed programmers do not make good employees. Is this the case for you?<br />But above all: how is wearing an ill-fitting suit with sneakers better than good-looking casual dressing?<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Anon 2006-11-18 20:29
    [quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<p>[quote user=&quot;A Businessman&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] </p><p>I&#39;ve
    learned the hard way about bad-mouthing a former employer... even if
    they have a permanent case of cranial-rectal inversion, its still
    better to mention the good things and not go into detail about why they
    suck so hard.[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;m always weary of the &quot;why did you left
    your previous job&quot; question myself. You&#39;ve got to be frank and give a
    compelling reason as to why you left your job, yet this very reason
    might hurt your chance to get the new job.</p><p>For instance, even if
    you had perfectly good reason to dislike someone in your last job,
    saying so might make them think that you don&#39;t get along well with
    people.</p><p>If you say &quot;their codebase was a giant WTF&quot;, they may
    think that you&#39;re too intolerant of things being done in a different
    way than yours. Also, they might be unsure that you won&#39;t get pissed
    off by their own codebase, since codebase are always more or less
    WTF-ish.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That is one of those interview questions
    that you should have a rehearsed BS response too. Even if you&#39;re
    thinking &quot;OMG, WTF, what a bunch of morons they were.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>How
    about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is
    being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough
    work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves
    toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking
    for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is
    a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>It&#39;s pure BS, but applies to just about any IT project on the planet, and get&#39;s past the question.</p>[/quote]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My inablity to answer stock questions with stock answers.&nbsp;</p>
  • Nabopolassar 2006-11-18 21:44
    We were hiring for a programming position at our small web services company. In the ad we indicated we were a LAMP output, although we didn't use the term: we explicitly said we were looking for people with experience in Perl, plus working knowledge of MySQL and the Apache web server.

    One of the candidates we selected to interview had a decent resume indicating web programming experience. However, when it came to the technical part:

    Question: "What is a regular expression?"
    Answer: "I've never heard of regular expressions." (Anyone who does more than the most trivial programming in Perl has at least encountered the term.)

    Question: "Have you had experience in setting up and running an Apache web server?"
    Candidate: "What's Apache?:

    Question (falling back to more general knowledge): "Are you familiar with MySQL?"
    Candidate: "No. What is it?"

    By this time it was obvious the candidate had bombed out. We thanked him for his interest and showed him the door.

    But the next day we received an e-mail from him thanking us for the interview and declaring he felt he was a "perfect fit" for our company! We responded simply by indicating we had found someone more suited to the position and wished him luck in his search.

    I'm still puzzled by this. Was he simply following the "how to look for a job" script, in which case you can at least argue that he can follow a procedure? (Not that such a person would suit us -- we need creative people; those who can think for themselves.) Or was he simply that clueless, not even knowing he had basically blown it, and yet still thought he was a "perfect fit"?
  • tin 2006-11-19 05:39
    Anonymous:
    Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /><br /><br />&nbsp;</p>


    I've been to multiple weddings wearing jeans. I plan to go to my own wedding wearing jeans.<br><br>
    I'm the kind of guy that doesn't really care what people are wearing (as long as it doesnt look like they found it at the garbage tip and didn't even wash it).
  • Crazy Dave 2006-11-19 09:47
    <p>[quote user=&quot;tin&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /><br /><br />&nbsp;[/quote]

    I&#39;ve been to multiple weddings wearing jeans. I plan to go to my own wedding wearing jeans.<br /><br />
    I&#39;m the kind of guy that doesn&#39;t really care what people are wearing (as long as it doesnt look like they found it at the garbage tip and didn&#39;t even wash it).[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;<br />I would have you removed from the church at my wedding. And you would not be invited to anything again ever unless you dress appropriately.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />&#39;I dont care what people are wearing&#39; is just your excuse for being insensitive and disregarding other peoples feelings. Wearing jeans to a formal event shows a fundemental lack of respect to other people.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>CAPTCHA: photogenic, ha.&nbsp;</p>
  • Pasa 2006-11-19 13:48
    <p>Important point: &quot;other people&quot; is nt a uniform mass, and especially not one with thinking identical to yours. Feel free to evict anyone from your funeral/wedding, but let others decide by their own standards.&nbsp; </p><p>IOW: please try not to communicate your opinion as if you were talking in name of &quot;other people&quot;. </p>
  • UMTopSpinC7 2006-11-19 17:08
    <p>[quote user=&quot;seymore15074&quot;][quote user=&quot;John Bigboote&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /></p><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Guaranteed winning answer:</p><p>&quot;Kryptonite.&quot;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>OMG! That&#39;s the best answer-EVER!</p>[/quote]<p>Yeah... I have to say that is pretty awesome.<br /></p>
  • Erzengel 2006-11-19 18:17
    [quote user=&quot;Pasa&quot;] <p>Important point: &quot;other people&quot; is nt a uniform mass, and especially not one with thinking identical to yours. Feel free to evict anyone from your funeral/wedding, but let others decide by their own standards.&nbsp; </p><p>IOW: please try not to communicate your opinion as if you were talking in name of &quot;other people&quot;. </p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Totally agree with this. One of my friends had a <strong>nude</strong> wedding (which I did not attend). Another had a wedding where everyone was in casual cloths. Heck, the &quot;best man&quot; wore torn jean shorts and a stained wife-beater. The bride and groom wore casual cloths as well, so they were OK with this. You may think this is disrespectful, but they don&#39;t, and it&#39;s <em>their</em> opinion that matters.</p><p>The Number One Rule in Presenting: Know your audience. That&#39;s what the middle road people here are saying: <u>KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE</u>. If you&#39;re going for an Enterprisey (captcha) job, wear a suit. If you&#39;re going for a Game Dev job, dress casual. Know. Research. Learn. Put effort into knowing about the future job. There is no one-size-fits-all.</p><p>Let&#39;s be honest for a second: We software developers need to learn that simple fact. There is no way to have something which does everything. Don&#39;t be niave and ignorant. Be flexible. Use the right tool for the right job, use the right dress and speech for the right occasion and audiance. </p>
  • tin 2006-11-19 18:19
    [quote user="Anonymous"]<p>[quote user=&quot;tin&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; <br /><br /><br />&nbsp;[/quote]

    I&#39;ve been to multiple weddings wearing jeans. I plan to go to my own wedding wearing jeans.<br /><br />
    I&#39;m the kind of guy that doesn&#39;t really care what people are wearing (as long as it doesnt look like they found it at the garbage tip and didn&#39;t even wash it).[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;<br />I would have you removed from the church at my wedding. And you would not be invited to anything again ever unless you dress appropriately.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />&#39;I dont care what people are wearing&#39; is just your excuse for being insensitive and disregarding other peoples feelings. Wearing jeans to a formal event shows a fundemental lack of respect to other people.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>CAPTCHA: photogenic, ha.&nbsp;</p>[/quote]

    Oops. I should have been more clear. The wedding thing and the bit about not caring what people thought were 2 seperate thoughts (intereupted by someone talking to me).

    I meant that I don't look down on someone for not wearing formal clothes to some event, no matter what it is. Even if my future wife vetos my informal wedding dress code, I wouldn't expect anyone to feel out of place for turning up in old jeans and a t-shirt.

    Edit: Also, the weddings I've been to wearing less formal clothes have all been modern fashionable outdoor events.
  • Marthinus 2006-11-20 00:53
    I get along well with most people and recently worked for a company where the President was like the one you described but I took the job and to this day I am glad I did. It was a rough ride but the amount of experience I gained through working with him is amazing and on the upside my new bosses are like lambs compared to him so I have a relaxed work environment everyday even though most of my co-workers stress out&nbsp; because some or other manager are ranting again.<br />
  • ajk 2006-11-20 01:51
    <p>hrmph well once I was to interview somebody for a programming job. When I went down to the reception I was a bit surprised that the guy was much older than what I expected. I was think oh well that&#39;s cool, he must be very experienced (I hadn&#39;t had time to look at the CV).</p><p>Anyway, we went upstair to the interview room and we chit chatted a bit. After a couple of minutes we both realized that something was amiss - it turned out that the guy was there applying for another job as manager lol. 8-)</p><p>moral of the story: its good to prepare for interviews.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • evilK 2006-11-20 03:10
    [quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]<blockquote><p>A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.</p></blockquote><p>[/quote]</p><p>I see a big cultural difference here between US (assuming this WTF is from there) and Finland. If someone here would arrive to a programming job interview with a suit, it would probably be regarded as WTF. Using a suit here would make interviewer suspicious if the interviewed guy can really be a good programmer. Almost everyone here a the office dresses casually unless they have a client meeting of non-technical nature. In summertime for example many programmers wear just shorts, sandals and t-shirt.<br /> </p><p>I remember one day when I wore a collared shirt in the office. My colleague said to me: &quot;WTF, have you been promoted to manager?&quot; </p><p>I don&#39;t say our style would be better - its just very different. And there are a lot of other differences as well.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • LKM 2006-11-20 03:53
    <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote>
    <p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.</p><p>So, suit? Bad first impression, possibly won&#39;t fit into the team. Tasteful casual wear and sneakers? Perfect for programmers.&nbsp;</p>
  • the real foo 2006-11-20 07:37
    <p>Re: subscription fee and .net <br /></p><p>IIRC, .net wasn&#39;t always free. You had to be MSDN subscriber to get the first versions (before 1.0.3705), until it got released for free. That&#39;s just my recollection of it. But it might well be the guy who didn&#39;t want to pay the subscription fee wasn&#39;t that silly.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • the real foo 2006-11-20 08:38
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote>
    <p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.</p><p>So, suit? Bad first impression, possibly won&#39;t fit into the team. Tasteful casual wear and sneakers? Perfect for programmers.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Exactly - you don&#39;t hire IT people for show, but for work.<br />Real techies don&#39;t spend much time in suits, they are too busy getting things done. Now if you were hiring a marketroid, that would be a different affair entirely, but for programmers: check their skills, not their dress. <br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-11-20 09:49
    <p>Interpersonal skills count. It&#39;s as simple as that. Even programmers need to have important meetings (sometimes with clients), get on with other people, communicate well, and so forth.</p><p>By dressing inappropriately for an interview (be it vastly overdressed *or* underdressed) you are demonstrating that you either lack or don&#39;t care about at least one major interpersonal skill - your impression/appearance. And if you keep doing that, then sooner or later you will get passed over for a job or promotion for a programmer who is just as competent as you but has other skills too.</p><p>Unless you are already at exactly where you want to ultimately be, career wise, it makes sense to dress to the situation.&nbsp;</p>
  • SnapShot 2006-11-20 10:18
    [quote user=&quot;John Bigboote&quot;][quote user=&quot;UMTopSpinC7&quot;]<br /><p>That is pretty good. What about, &quot;What is your biggest weakness&quot;. Another one that&#39;s pretty tough.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Guaranteed winning answers:</p><p>&quot;Kryptonite.&quot;</p><p>&quot;My crippling and debilitating fear of clowns and spiders.&quot;[/quote]

    </p><p>&nbsp;<br />How about:

    &quot;My complete and utter inability to rank any of my innumerable weaknesses as my &#39;biggest&#39; weaknesss.&quot;<br /></p>
  • SnapShot 2006-11-20 10:48
    [quote user=&quot;evilK&quot;][quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]<blockquote><p>A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.</p></blockquote><p>[/quote]</p><p>I see a big cultural difference here between US (assuming this WTF is from there) and Finland. If someone here would arrive to a programming job interview with a suit, it would probably be regarded as WTF. Using a suit here would make interviewer suspicious if the interviewed guy can really be a good programmer. Almost everyone here a the office dresses casually unless they have a client meeting of non-technical nature. In summertime for example many programmers wear just shorts, sandals and t-shirt.<br /> </p><p>I remember one day when I wore a collared shirt in the office. My colleague said to me: &quot;WTF, have you been promoted to manager?&quot; </p><p>I don&#39;t say our style would be better - its just very different. And there are a lot of other differences as well.<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I think there&#39;s also an East Coast / West Coast difference.&nbsp; I&#39;d never owned a suit in Seattle.&nbsp; Here in D.C. I wouldn&#39;t think of showing up on the job in less than Dockers and a button-up shirt. And, in an interview a suit is required.<br /></p>
  • A Businessman 2006-11-20 10:51
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;A Businessman&quot;] <p>How about this one: &quot;Due to budgetary constraints, my current project is being put on hold indefinitely, and there does not appear to be enough work to keep all of us busy. While the company has not made any moves toward layoffs, I prefer to be productive, and am proactively looking for a challenge. I understand the project for which I&#39;m interviewing is a substantial effort - can you shed some light on it?&quot;</p><p>[/quote]<br /><br />Right... and if your interviewer, after hearing that, isn&#39;t bright enough to sniff and go &quot;well look at that, a great steaming pile of bullshit has just landed on my head!&quot;, why would you want to work there?<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course it&#39;s a BS answer - I said so in the post, but you have to get past the question. However, I rarely get asked that question by technical folks. Usually, it comes from HR-types who aren&#39;t sufficiently astute to get the relationship you suggest.</p>
  • John 2006-11-20 12:04
    <p>I think a good rule of thumb on what to wear during the interview, is choose clothes with the same degree of formality as the CEO of the company would. How do you figure that out? When your researching the company, try to find a candid picture of the CEO or just a regular picture on their website. If the CEO has a suit on, then people in the company are used to seeing at least one person with a suit on.<br /><br />If you can&#39;t find a picture at all, and you&#39;re in the bay area, then go down to Macy&#39;s, buy a nice shirt (short sleeves in summer), buy a pair of nice slacks, make sure they match. Buy a belt then some nice dress shoes. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Finally (Based on some recent interviews I&#39;ve given), go to walgreens or riteaid, get some BO-stick, a tooth brush, some tooth paste, and some mouth wash. Don&#39;t OD on caffeine, but make sure you&#39;re awake. Make eye contact with your interviewer. </p><p>On the coding questions, you don&#39;t gain anything by hiding your thoughts, unless you&#39;re really stupid and the job isn&#39;t for you. If you&#39;re capable, then only speaking after you&#39;ve thought it through, then getting it wrong is 100x worse then talking while you think. As well, I&#39;ve never heard in a recap, &quot;Well, the person really didn&#39;t have a clue at first but they thought it through out loud and got it, don&#39;t hire him/her&quot;, and I&#39;ve heard , &quot;The guy/woman, was awkward, wouldn&#39;t talk out problems, kept everything hidden, I hate working with those people&quot;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • DWalker59 2006-11-20 15:39
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>The &quot;dress test&quot; is a good way to see if the programmer has the ability to go out of his world of programming and into other domains. Come on people, a suit is pretty easy: go to your local department store, shell out a few hundred bucks, and get a nice taylored look. </p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Other domains... like spelling.&nbsp; &quot;Tailored&quot;, not &quot;Taylored&quot;.</p>
  • anon 2006-11-20 15:45
    <p>I work at a company that is about as casual as you can get with regard to dress, and I wear a suit so rarely (interviews, funerals and weddings), I&#39;ve&nbsp;had the same one for 10 years.</p><p>I would never work for a company that required a suit to work and I would never work with people&nbsp;who ridiculed others&nbsp;for wearing suits to interviews. </p><p>Geeks so cool thay can only wear beach attire, and are so&nbsp;myopic as to not understand why someone would wear a suit to an interview&nbsp;are usually difficult to work with.</p><p>I wear suits to interviews becuase it shows that I can dress up should it become necessary (i.e. meeting with a stuffy customer with lots of money), and that can adapt to different social situations as required.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Calli Arcale 2006-11-20 17:20
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]I would have hired the kid in the poorly fitting suit. Who cares if he didn&#39;t wear dress shoes, or if his suit didn&#39;t quite fit, as long as he looked presentable that&#39;s all that matters. Now, about him being curious... I have found curiosity to be an awesome trait for developers to have. Sure, it might be seen as poor etiquite, but he was reading a book not sifting through underwear. He was searching for the answer to a question.[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;<br />How do you know that book was the only thing he disturbed while he was in there?&nbsp; He was unattended, remember.</p><p>I work for a defense contractor, which means that I am probably more aware than a commercial-sector person of the importance of counter-intelligence.&nbsp; Don&#39;t underestimate other people, or assume the best when they&#39;re doing something that is not only rude, but quite possibly illegal.&nbsp; At my company, he would not have been left unattended, and if someone had left him alone, they&#39;d quite probably face disciplinary action for doing so.&nbsp; That&#39;s a MAJOR breach of security to have somebody wandering unimpeded into manager officers, free to look at any hard copy lying around.&nbsp; That hard copy could include bids, price charts, statements of work, proprietary data, all kinds of information that could be very lucrative to a competitor.<br /></p><p>Yes, I&#39;m sure he was looking for the answer to the question.&nbsp; However, it&#39;s unwise to make any assumptions about what the question was.&nbsp; In any case, wandering uninvited into a stranger&#39;s office and reading books off the shelf without permission demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of what is appropriate behavior.&nbsp; He&#39;ll need a lot of training, and I&#39;d still consider him a liability.&nbsp; I wouldn&#39;t want to risk him wandering off and reading stuff in the offices of a competitor; if caught, my company would face serious penalties.&nbsp; Corporate espionage, even if unsuccessful, is a crime.&nbsp; In the defense industry, it&#39;s very serious business. Just look at what Boeing went through a few years ago with the Delta IV program.&nbsp; They hired a former Lockheed employee.&nbsp; He brought with him boxes and boxes of confidential Lockheed data, which allowed them to unfairly underbid their Delta IV rocket in the USAF Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program.&nbsp; The price?&nbsp; They had to fire all the staff directly involved in the scandal, reorganize, cease bidding on any government space work, and lose nearly all of their Delta contracts for a few years.&nbsp; It cost them billions.<br /></p><p>This was not as serious as what happened to Boeing.&nbsp; But it could have been.&nbsp; For heavens sake, don&#39;t wander where you are not invited.&nbsp; Job interviews are a recognized method of collecting intelligence (both military and commercial) because they give an outside person access to a facility and to key stakeholders within the company.&nbsp; They could try a strategy this blunt, in hopes your security practises are poor.&nbsp; Or they could simply ply their interviewers for information.&nbsp; (Word to the wise: even if you keep a close eye on your interviewees, be careful what you tell them.&nbsp; Remember, even if they are legitimately looking for a job, it might be your competitor who ends up hiring them -- and getting access to any information you unwittingly gave them.)<br /></p>
  • Liptka 2006-11-20 18:05
    <blockquote><p>&nbsp;<em>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.</em></p></blockquote><p>Wow. Looked past it. Good. Anybody miss that point?</p><p>But isn&#39;t it amazing the can of worms this opens up? I remember getting death threats on another board because I am of the opinion that dressing appropriately for an interview is, well, appropriate.</p><p>Yes, this isn&#39;t 1951 anymore and employers are more comfortable in answering questions about interview attire than they were in the past, this is something the interviewee can take advantage of.</p><p>But look at it this way: if the Politically Correct reaction to the way you dress in an interview is to simply ignore it, then it follows that the Politically Correct reaction to not bathing for an interview is to simply ignore it. Eating during an interview? ignore it. Taking a call on the cell? ignore it. Picking your teeth? Picking your nose? Trying to look up the interviewer&#39;s skirt? They should all be ignored as well. This <strong>is</strong> after all, an <em>intellectual</em> industry, nothing you could ever do should offend anyone as long as your code is clean and submitted on time. We should be above the superficialities.</p><p>Why respect anyone else&#39;s expectations (especially non-technical management), after all: &quot;They Don&#39;t Get It.&quot;</p><p>If you aren&#39;t willing to dress appropriately for an interview (and the company may require that suit and tie) then why should society expect you to exercise the discipline to come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign at a deserted country crossroads at 3 a.m.?</p><p>Yes, there are efficiencies and contingencies and all kinds of ways to &quot;justify&quot; your actions, but you&#39;re still dis-respecting society. Thankfully it&#39;s not going to be <u>our</u> generation that pays.</p>
  • Myself 2006-11-21 01:38
    <p>[quote user=&quot;darin&quot;]Maybe you&#39;ll say &quot;I wouldn&#39;t want to work there anyway&quot;, but what if it was just one single person that preferred the other candidate because of that, and a person you would not have had to work closely with?&nbsp; Would you dismiss an entire job that you might have liked because one of the HR people thought suits were a requirement?[/quote]</p><p>Ahh, this has been my argument for years: That inept or clueless HR people are partly to blame for corporate ineptitude on a broader scale. </p><p>Next time you encounter an idiot, don&#39;t ask why that person&#39;s an idiot. Some just are. Ask who hired them. Ask why they haven&#39;t received proper training. Ask why their poor performance hasn&#39;t been acted upon. Unless this particular instance of idiocy is an isolated case, you&#39;ll end up pointing the finger at management or HR.</p><p>Management&#39;s job is to get the right people, get them the resources they need, then get out of the way. A failure on any one of those three points affects everyone. The point of a the hiring process is to attract the right people just as much as it is to filter out the wrong people. If they&#39;re not advertising right, or not paying right, or giving qualified candidates the wrong &quot;vibe&quot; about the place, they&#39;ll end up hiring someone unqualified by default. It all starts with HR.<br /></p>
  • Noogen 2006-11-21 01:43
    <p>Appearance Matters!&nbsp; In this field, suit are usually not required; but do dress nicely.&nbsp; If you don&#39;t have a suit, I&#39;m sure you can afford at least khaki and long sleeves shirt.</p><p>We are living in &quot;a Material World!&quot; (Madona)&nbsp; Plastic surgery wouldn&#39;t be so popular if Appearance doesn&#39;t matter.&nbsp; Our culture (Parent, Peers, TV, etc..) has burned it into our brain.&nbsp; Think about it, we make all kind of judgements about a person before we even hear what they have to say.&nbsp; </p><p>I&#39;ve interviewed and been through many interviews.&nbsp; As a Tech, you have to go through many interviews.&nbsp; With a good position, HR can receives and goes through hundred of resumes a day.&nbsp; The first inteview might be a phone interview.&nbsp; Then you interview with HR where Appearance most likely Matter.&nbsp; HR will most likely ask you those ethics and possibly leadership questions if you are applying management positions.&nbsp; Face it, after dotcom boom (ENRON, WORLDCOM, etc..)&nbsp; Ethic Matters!&nbsp; </p><p>I&#39;m an interviewer;&nbsp;and I don&#39;t know anything about you beside what you wrote in your resume,and that still need to be verified.&nbsp; My first impression of you matter, especially if I&#39;m HR.&nbsp; It&#39;s like taking a test.&nbsp; You get points for dressing up nice.&nbsp; </p><p>If you respect yourself, so what if you&#39;re the only one dress in a suit?&nbsp; They can&#39;t say that you are snobish if you express yourself correctly when you meet people.&nbsp; If the interview went well, HR may bring you around to meet your future co-worker/boss.&nbsp; You want to make a good First Impression!</p><p>I&#39;m a very competitive guy.&nbsp; Interview process for me is all about scoring as many offers as possible.&nbsp; Then I can have option/leverages, and can negotiates for better offer.</p><p>As for those who are still to stubborn to even try to dress nicely, fine..&nbsp; Continue your own way and don&#39;t complain about the WTF code you see with&nbsp;&quot;how do these people score job when I can do better and I&#39;m jobless.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-21 02:03
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>It never fails to amaze me what pride geeks take in their inability to read people and normal social situations and draw the correct conclusion as to what is appropriate behavior.&nbsp; Also, the little boy mentality of wanting to spend the rest of their lives in short pants and a t-shirt (typically these articles of clothing do not exactly set their bloated forms to best advantage).</p><p>Look, part of your job involves working with other people, no matter how seldom you bathe.&nbsp; Show some respect for them by being presentable and professional in your appearance.&nbsp; Did none of you squidlings have fathers or grade school teachers to instruct you in normal human behavior?</p>
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-21 02:22
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Wow! Never seen this much web real estate and passion spent on geek clothing habits before. Must struck some deep-seated thingy in the collective IT psyche.</p><p>Captcha: initech -- wierdly like the name of an ex-employer&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.&nbsp; And no, they weren&#39;t the super-coders they thought they were, either--one I work with now constantly wastes his time trying to solve problems in the most code-intensive and obscure way possible, simply because this is more challenging to him--he totally lacks technical common sense.</p><p>&nbsp;Also, it&#39;s really difficult to put much stock in some of the self-appraisals around here.</p>
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-21 02:43
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote><p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Can&#39;t argue with that brilliant deductive logic.</p>
  • Msrevenge (la turista) 2006-11-21 04:30
    [quote user=&quot;tiro&quot;]<p>If you go into someone&#39;s house, you really shouldn&#39;t snoop around in their medicine cabinet, but it&#39;s fine to read whatever they&#39;ve got lying on the coffee table. <br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>There is in fact good reason to gather information by looking in the medicine cabinet, and a fine tradition thereof in American letters, from Thompson to Phillips to Didion.&nbsp; It&#39;s getting caught that&#39;s the problem.&nbsp; (Cf Tom Lehrer: &quot;He was majoring in animal husbandry until they ... caught him at it one day.&quot;)<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>captcha: Gonzo&nbsp;</p>
  • LKM 2006-11-21 06:55
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote><p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Can&#39;t argue with that brilliant deductive logic.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>There&#39;s no logic involved. Just a feeling, as I said - people who wear suits probably don&#39;t fit into our R&amp;D team. In other words, it&#39;s inductive reasoning (if that), certainly not deductive logic. Besides, if you wanted to make fun of me (and I&#39;m not sure if you did), you should have written &quot;brillant,&quot; not &quot;brilliant.&quot;<br /></p><p>&nbsp;Anyway, what was your point again?<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • LKM 2006-11-21 06:57
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.<br /></p>
  • Earl Purple 2006-11-21 07:19
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;biziclop&quot;] <p>if( this == null ) return ERROR; //the downside of search-replace refactoring<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Um, why??</p><p>I don&#39;t like the ERROR part, since it usually means a global variable, but there are valid reasons to do this.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />This code is probably C++, where it is certainly possible to get to this point. I have written such code (that tests for this == null) to handle NullObject pattern.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>If it&#39;s C++ and operator== is overloaded, you would need to do: if ( *this == null ) // or NULL</p><p>for it to make sense.</p>
  • Richard Nixon 2006-11-21 11:53
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote><p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Can&#39;t argue with that brilliant deductive logic.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>There&#39;s no logic involved. Just a feeling, as I said - people who wear suits probably don&#39;t fit into our R&amp;D team. In other words, it&#39;s inductive reasoning (if that), certainly not deductive logic. Besides, if you wanted to make fun of me (and I&#39;m not sure if you did), you should have written &quot;brillant,&quot; not &quot;brilliant.&quot;<br /></p><p>&nbsp;Anyway, what was your point again?<br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So you&#39;re making a judgment of their personality and how well they will fit in based on their view of proper interview style? Their behavior during the interview should tell you more about how they will fit in than what they believe is proper attire for an interview.</p><p>Wouldn&#39;t it be possible for someone who would be a perfect fit in your working environment to just have a more formal idea of what interviews should be like? What does that say about their personality other than how they view interviews?</p><p>sincerely,<br />Richard Nixon&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • el jaybird 2006-11-21 12:04
    <p>I&#39;m in the &quot;honesty is the best policy&quot; camp, as much as appropriate, anyway.</p><p>Oh, and when I did my interviews, I was typically &quot;business casual&quot;, dress pants and shoes, dress shirt, tie, but no suit jacket&nbsp;-- instead, I wore my university engineering leather jacket.</p><p>A phone interview with a telecom: &quot;If you were to go back and do (previous job from which I was laid off) over, what would you do differently?&quot;&nbsp; Admittedly that one caught me totally off guard, and after taking a rather long moment to think, I started to babble on about learning how to deal with layoffs, and before I knew it I was telling him about how hard the layoff had been, especially since I lost personal files, emails, etc. that had all been on my work computer at my last job.&nbsp; I realized, a bit too late, that I made it sound like I was doing way too&nbsp;much personal stuff on company time. I thought I&#39;d just blown it.</p><p>Then the interviewer paused and said &quot;Wow, that&#39;s an answer I&#39;d never been given before.&nbsp; Most people say something like &#39;I&#39;d learn to do better Java&#39; or something.&quot;&nbsp; And he gave me an offer.&nbsp; Later when I was in the position of turning his offer down, he pleaded with me, saying that he could see that I had a lot of potential and he saw me as a manager one day, not just a life-long coder.</p><p>Then there was my interview with Accenture recruiters, where I arrived with zero time to spare and entered the interviewer&#39;s office huffing and puffing from running up five flights of stairs.&nbsp; He actually stopped the interview and said &quot;Go ahead and take a minute to catch your breath.&quot;&nbsp; I thought I&#39;d blown that, too, but again I got an offer (and turned it down, because...)</p><p>Finally there was my interview with a manager who had a position I didn&#39;t even apply for.&nbsp; I had applied for about 5 positions on their career website, none of them even acknowledged my application, but then I got a call from HR out of the blue.&nbsp; When I read over the req, I shuddered... he was looking to hire a guy with 5 years experience in the field (I had 1.5 years experience, NOT in that field), a guy who knew ClearCase (I had used Continuus), DOORS (nope), BX Pro (nope), strong C++ (yes, but I had just spent the last 3 years back at school doing Java), Rational Rose (yes, but only at school).&nbsp; So the interviewers are telling me about their product and their design cycle, which uses a fair bit of UML modeling and code generation from Rational Rose.&nbsp; He asks me &quot;What do you think about round trip code generation?&quot;</p><p>&quot;I don&#39;t think it works very well&quot;, I said.&nbsp; &quot;I&#39;ve done it, in academic situations, projects at school, coursework.&nbsp; It&#39;s a great idea in concept. But in the real world, it fails.&quot;&nbsp; I proceeded to tell them why I thought so.</p><p>Despite being underqualified for the job (they were hiring for a level higher than what I thought I qualified for), despite not having the hard skills they needed, they hired me.&nbsp; Because, I found out later, I was a person who had realistic expectations and knew how to do stuff in &quot;the real world&quot;.&nbsp; As it turns out, upper management sent down the mandate to use Rose and round-trip code generation, and all the developers felt like I do -- they hate it, because it doesn&#39;t work very well.&nbsp; I was one of few people who were willing to say so in the interview.</p><p>I heard some horror stories from some of the other people who had been interviewed for the position and rejected, but that&#39;s a story for another time.</p><p>Oh, and it didn&#39;t hurt that their pickest, most finicky QA test lead, turns out to have been the person who taught me most of what I know about C++ programming, in terms of making bomb-proof, well documented code, in&nbsp;a high-school co-op term 10 years earlier.&nbsp;&nbsp;I name-dropped hoping that maybe that guy still worked there, and just maybe (in this company of 1500 employees) one of the interviewers had heard of him.&nbsp; Instead they looked at each other, smiled, and said &quot;Reaaaally?&nbsp; Well, we&#39;ll just have to talk to him and see what he thinks of you.&quot;</p><p>Apparently they thought well of me, because here I am...</p><p>Captcha: shizzle (yeah baby!)</p>
  • thrashaholic 2006-11-21 19:34
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] I think anyone who&#39;s not totally divorced from normal interactions with fellow humans knows that wearing sneakers with a suit is wildly inappropriate, fashion-wise.[/quote]</p><p>And many more comments along those lines..&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;<br />I&#39;m assuming you guys have never seen Ben Stein wear nothing BUT a suit and Etnies (a skate shoe) on his show? (Win Ben Stein&#39;s Money)</p><p>&nbsp;<br />The biggest baddest new Nikes of course do not go with a suit, but nothing beats a colour matched pair of Vans Old School Lows with a nice suit. <br /></p><p>Seriously. I pull it off all the time; as long as it&#39;s a slim, short sneaker, and the colours match, it&#39;s fine. I think it&#39;s actually more pimp than a boring old pair of polished black dress shoes any day of the week.</p><p>Wearing a pair of Jordans that are red and black and go half way to your knees with a navy blue suit is obviously wrong. I think wearing those hideous things is wrong in the first place, but I digress.</p><p>You&#39;d really be surprised how suave a well styled and colour matched pair of sneakers can go with a suit. Just ask the ladies. <br /><br />Did you guys also ever think that a fresh graduate who&#39;s currently unemployed may in fact be too poor to afford proper dress shoes, or even a proper fitting suit? I think that it&#39;s a bit classist to judge someone&#39;s technical ability by their ability to drop $300+ dollars on something that they&#39;ll be wearing once or twice.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My very low valued two cents.<br /></p>
  • LKM 2006-11-22 02:24
    [quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]<p>So you&#39;re making a judgment of their personality and how well they will fit in based on their view of proper interview style?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course I do. Are you proposing that this is somehow wrong? The interviewee probably spent quite some time thinking about how to dress for the interview. If he applies for a programming job in a suit, he hasn&#39;t asked what to wear, so he made conscious decision to wear a suit. That tells me something about what he expects from this job and this team. My first reaction would probably be &quot;wtf?&quot;</p><p>We&#39;re looking for engineers here. Not management or fashion models.<br /></p><p>Having said that, we never had somebody apply for a job in R&amp;D wearing a suit. And we&#39;re writing banking applications.<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]</p><p>Their behavior during the interview should tell you more about how they will fit in than what they believe is proper attire for an interview.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course. But choosing what to wear is part of your behaviour. Not during the interview, obviously, but before the interview.</p><p>It shows your expectations, your style, your personality.&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]</p><p>Wouldn&#39;t it be possible for someone who would be a perfect fit in your working environment to just have a more formal idea of what interviews should be like?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course it&#39;s possible. Just unlikely.&nbsp;</p>
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-22 12:33
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <blockquote>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers.</blockquote><p>That&#39;s an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don&#39;t hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Can&#39;t argue with that brilliant deductive logic.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>There&#39;s no logic involved.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;No kidding.</p>
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-22 12:34
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</p>
  • Guything McThingGuy 2006-11-22 13:20
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]<p>So you&#39;re making a judgment of their personality and how well they will fit in based on their view of proper interview style?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course I do. Are you proposing that this is somehow wrong? The interviewee probably spent quite some time thinking about how to dress for the interview. If he applies for a programming job in a suit, he hasn&#39;t asked what to wear, so he made conscious decision to wear a suit. That tells me something about what he expects from this job and this team. My first reaction would probably be &quot;wtf?&quot;</p><p>We&#39;re looking for engineers here. Not management or fashion models.<br /></p><p>Having said that, we never had somebody apply for a job in R&amp;D wearing a suit. And we&#39;re writing banking applications.<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]</p><p>Their behavior during the interview should tell you more about how they will fit in than what they believe is proper attire for an interview.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course. But choosing what to wear is part of your behaviour. Not during the interview, obviously, but before the interview.</p><p>It shows your expectations, your style, your personality.&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Richard Nixon&quot;]</p><p>Wouldn&#39;t it be possible for someone who would be a perfect fit in your working environment to just have a more formal idea of what interviews should be like?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Of course it&#39;s possible. Just unlikely.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You&#39;re just as bad as the guys who won&#39;t hire anyone &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; wearing a suit.</p><p>A lot of good programmers just aren&#39;t too fashionably aware.&nbsp; If they dont&#39; know what to wear to an interview, then the suit defaults.&nbsp; It says *absolutely nothing* about them.&nbsp; You simply can&#39;t infer a single damn fact from what they are wearing.&nbsp; There are the extreme cases - but wearing a suit to an interview is just a cultural norm for some people - it&#39;s not extreme.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Andrew Brown 2006-11-22 14:37
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote><p>&nbsp;<em>His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.</em></p></blockquote><p>Wow. Looked past it. Good. Anybody miss that point?</p><p>But isn&#39;t it amazing the can of worms this opens up? I remember getting death threats on another board because I am of the opinion that dressing appropriately for an interview is, well, appropriate.</p><p>Yes, this isn&#39;t 1951 anymore and employers are more comfortable in answering questions about interview attire than they were in the past, this is something the interviewee can take advantage of.</p><p>But look at it this way: if the Politically Correct reaction to the way you dress in an interview is to simply ignore it, then it follows that the Politically Correct reaction to not bathing for an interview is to simply ignore it. Eating during an interview? ignore it. Taking a call on the cell? ignore it. Picking your teeth? Picking your nose? Trying to look up the interviewer&#39;s skirt? They should all be ignored as well. This <strong>is</strong> after all, an <em>intellectual</em> industry, nothing you could ever do should offend anyone as long as your code is clean and submitted on time. We should be above the superficialities.</p><p>Why respect anyone else&#39;s expectations (especially non-technical management), after all: &quot;They Don&#39;t Get It.&quot;</p><p>If you aren&#39;t willing to dress appropriately for an interview (and the company may require that suit and tie) then why should society expect you to exercise the discipline to come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign at a deserted country crossroads at 3 a.m.?</p><p>Yes, there are efficiencies and contingencies and all kinds of ways to &quot;justify&quot; your actions, but you&#39;re still dis-respecting society. Thankfully it&#39;s not going to be <u>our</u> generation that pays.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Anonymous, meet slippery slope.&nbsp;</p>
  • LKM 2006-11-23 03:53
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</p><p>[/quote]
    </p><p>&nbsp;<br />Uhm. Frankly, I don&#39;t really know what to reply to this, other than that I feel sorry for you.<br /></p>
  • LKM 2006-11-23 03:59
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>You&#39;re just as bad as the guys who won&#39;t hire anyone &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; wearing a suit.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I never said I wouldn&#39;t hire somebody with suit. Just that it&#39;s a significant negative first impression. Having said that, yes: I&#39;m just as bad as somebody who won&#39;t hire somebody who applies without a suit for a management position.<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <br /></p><p>A lot of good programmers just aren&#39;t too fashionably aware.&nbsp; If they dont&#39; know what to wear to an interview, then the suit defaults.[/quote]</p><p>That&#39;s quite simply not true. As I&#39;ve said, we write banking apps, yet nobody here has ever applied for an R&amp;D job wearing a suit.</p><p><br />[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] </p><p>It says *absolutely nothing* about them.</p><p>&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>Again, not true. What you wear says a lot about you. You choose your clothes. They don&#39;t suddenly fall down from the sky and force themselves upon you.<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]</p><p>You simply can&#39;t infer a single damn fact from what they are wearing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Suddenly I&#39;m starting to think that somehow, you&#39;re taking this way too personal. So, you&#39;re wearing suits for job interviews, huh?<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <br /></p><p>&nbsp; There are the extreme cases - but wearing a suit to an interview is just a cultural norm for some people - it&#39;s not extreme. </p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Experience would indicate otherwise.&nbsp;</p>
  • Dean 2006-11-24 22:36
    Uhm, maybe as it was an interview and the person was nervous they actually meant &quot;Apple, Solaris&quot;. Solaris historically kept the same major version number - 2<br />
  • NancyBoy 2006-11-26 00:48
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</p><p>[/quote] </p><p><br />Uhm. Frankly, I don&#39;t really know what to reply to this, other than that I feel sorry for you.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Another brilliant rebuttal.</p><p>Listen up, junior.&nbsp; People like dealing with adults and not retarded Asperger&#39;s sufferers.&nbsp; Even if the latter can write reasonable C.&nbsp; Get this, being a developer necessarily involves interacting with non-developers--testers, managers, support staff, and so on.&nbsp; Showing them you can pick up on basic social cues is the first sign that attempts to interact with you are not entirely futile.</p><p>With few exceptions the &quot;non-comformists&quot; who love to show off their failure to groom, dress properly, and behave like an adult are the ones with the worst problems dealing with anyone different from themselves.&nbsp; I see it all the time.&nbsp; The dev who just blends in, dresses normally, speaks normally, is 99 times out of 100 also the dev who listens, asks questions, shows consideration in his assumptions, etc.&nbsp; The dev who dresses like a jackass who has only ever worn short pants is the one who automatically assumes the users are retarded, that anyone who can&#39;t code is a worthless fuckwit, that their way is the only way, etc.&nbsp; I&#39;m sick to death dealing with such people.&nbsp; And by the way they are the reason why IT is usually held in slightly lower esteem than HR by the average non-IP employee.</p>
  • The Hedgehog 2006-11-26 20:19
    <p>[quote]Nice pants, a button shirt, perhaps a tie, polished shoes are an absolute must.[/quote] <br /></p><p>Jeez, I don&#39;t even HAVE shoes that can be polished, a suit or a tie. <br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]If you showed up to an interview in Jeans, you honestly look like an idiot.&nbsp; Sort of like people who show up at a funeral in jeans, or to a wedding in jeans.&nbsp; [/quote]&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;ve done all of that. Always got hired too, except for the funerals &amp; weddings.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • LKM 2006-11-27 03:22
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked.&nbsp; It&#39;s depressing.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</p><p>[/quote] </p><p><br />Uhm. Frankly, I don&#39;t really know what to reply to this, other than that I feel sorry for you.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Another brilliant rebuttal.</p><p>Listen up, junior.[/quote]</p><p>Yeah, I can see how that works. You&#39;re really mature and above everybody else, and you show that by not playing games and talking down on others. I&#39;m glad I don&#39;t have to work with somebody like you. I&#39;m glad we have a fun working environment, and I would not hire somebody like you, because you&#39;d bring down the whole team.</p><p>People here like coming to work. They like their job and their coworkers. They like watching cartoons and arguing about video games. They&#39;re also awesome coders who write heavy-duty banking apps, and they are often supporting customers and do presentations about our application.<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <br /></p><p>People like dealing with adults and not retarded Asperger&#39;s sufferers.&nbsp; Even if the latter can write reasonable C.&nbsp; Get this, being a developer necessarily involves interacting with non-developers--testers, managers, support staff, and so on.&nbsp; Showing them you can pick up on basic social cues is the first sign that attempts to interact with you are not entirely futile.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Awesome. So what has that got to do with watching cartoons or having fun while working?<br /></p><p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] </p><p>With few exceptions the &quot;non-comformists&quot; who love to show off their failure to groom, dress properly, and behave like an adult are the ones with the worst problems dealing with anyone different from themselves.&nbsp; I see it all the time.&nbsp; The dev who just blends in, dresses normally, speaks normally, is 99 times out of 100 also the dev who listens, asks questions, shows consideration in his assumptions, etc.&nbsp; The dev who dresses like a jackass who has only ever worn short pants is the one who automatically assumes the users are retarded, that anyone who can&#39;t code is a worthless fuckwit, that their way is the only way, etc.&nbsp; I&#39;m sick to death dealing with such people.&nbsp; And by the way they are the reason why IT is usually held in slightly lower esteem than HR by the average non-IP employee.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>You&#39;re cracking me up. I really can&#39;t provide a coherent answer to your rambling: you&#39;re destroying your own point. People who have fun while working are &quot;worthless fuckwits,&quot; and&nbsp; but you&#39;re the mature one here, huh? And making fun of disabilities is good, while watching cartoons is bad. Yeah, right. Grow up. You&#39;re the immature one here.<br /></p>
  • poochner 2006-11-27 08:51
    [quote user=&quot;darin&quot;]<p>There a difference in dressing up a little and actually having fashion sense.&nbsp; People with ill-fitting suits almost never know that they&#39;re ill fitting, or may not have had time to buy a new suit and have it tailored in time for the interview.&nbsp; (being middle aged, I have learned that suits that are hung in the closet for ten years will shrink :-)</p><p>(I once spent 11 months looking for a job.&nbsp; I think that wearing a tie made me lose out on a few offers, indirectly.&nbsp; Ie, sitting in the interview, uncomfortable, with a noose around my neck.&nbsp; Late in the game one company finally told me what they liked and disliked about me.&nbsp; My drawbacks were that he thought I was way too formal, answered questions correctly but too succinctly, and that I would have been a great candidate if only I had loosened up a bit so that it felt like I would have fit in.)<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Yeah, that incredible shrinking suit thing is a bummer. :-)&nbsp; But the noose feeling is part and parcel of it.&nbsp; Buy a shirt with the right size collar, and it&#39;s no problem.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Beaudetious 2006-11-27 15:27
    [quote user=&quot;jes5199&quot;]<p>My personal rule of thumb is: don&#39;t fake it. If you&#39;re a lazy slob who likes to sleep late - like me - then don&#39;t pretend to be a type-A go-getter suave-in-a-suit. </p><p>Because, here&#39;s the thing, the people who hire you, well, they&#39;ll expect to see the guy they interviewed <span style="font-style: italic">every day.</span><br />So you might as well go as yourself, and only take the jobs that are actually compatible with your personality (and with your <span style="font-style: italic">actual skills</span>).</p><p>Maybe I&#39;m making less money because I&#39;ve never worn a coat and tie to an interview, but my schedule is flexible, and I have plenty of coffee, and decent technology to play with.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So true.&nbsp; When I interviewed for my first job after graduating college, I had a full beard and some hair on my head (not much).&nbsp; When I showed up (after being hired), I had a shaved head and a goatee.&nbsp; My new boss (who I interviewed with) was not really sure I was who he hired.&nbsp; I still think he&#39;s convinced I&#39;m not the same guy.<br /></p>
  • mnature 2006-11-27 18:10
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;] <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Grow up, people care how you look.&nbsp; If an interview isn&#39;t important enough to you to dress up a little bit then how is the company&#39;s software project going to be important enough for you to work hard on it?<br />[/quote]</p><p>I think you need to do some growing up yourself if you think your statement has any logic to it.</p><p>If you&#39;re hiring a salesperson or fashion model, yeah, sure, they need to show they can dress up to meet with customers and otherwise impress folks.&nbsp; But whether a programmer has a nice suit has little to do with how well he can design a system.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>As a side note to this type of argument, I would point out that men are quite likely to base their opinion of a woman on her weight and how well she dresses.&nbsp; Neither of those has much of anything to do with what her intelligence or sense of humor is, or how well she might perform in other areas (such as cooking, listening, and such).&nbsp; Before you criticize someone for basing an opinion upon looks alone, you might look at the areas where you do the same thing.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Jehtris 2006-11-27 19:41
    <p>We had a manager position interview with us.&nbsp; He was going to be our in-between person with the development staff and <em><strong>External</strong> </em>Clients.&nbsp;&nbsp; As part of our interview process, we required each candidate to perform a group presentation on a topic of his or her choice.&nbsp; The idea was to determine the level of comfort with group situations, as well as the ability to handle Q&amp;A.&nbsp; As we were all consultants who met regularly with clients, this was paramount.&nbsp; The candidate would be representing not just our company, but each of us individually and professionally.</p><p>&nbsp;One candidate came in for a second interview without a tie.&nbsp; I am a very casual dresser, but I still feel that this was inappropriate for an interview, especially for a management position.&nbsp; During his individual interview with me, his lack of development experience left me doubting that he would be the mentor to our team that we were looking for.&nbsp; The final nail in the coffin (for me), was that during his presentation, he held a can of coke in his hand for the entire thing!</p><p>&nbsp;Unfortunately, he was hired anyway, a mistake that killed our development group, almost ruined my career, and cost the company millions of dollars in lost development work.</p><p>&nbsp;As far as dress code, I am in the camp that work is work, and play is play.&nbsp; I worked for a big three defense contractor that felt that casual Friday&#39;s meant no jacket, and I worked for an engineering firm that everyone wore jeans and T-Shirts/Polo&#39;s.&nbsp; There is definately a corporate culture for each company, and I feel that you should dress one notch hirer than the position you are applying for when you interview.</p><p>No matter what the geek subculture tries to represent, the &quot;suits&quot; still make the decisions.&nbsp; Most &quot;suits&quot; will not turn over a multi-million dollar project to someone who dresses like they are still in high school.&nbsp; I&#39;m sure there are the few &quot;suits&quot; that will get to know their employees that closely, but most do not have the time or inclination, especially in larger organizations.</p><p>What you wear on a day to day basis shows an insight to your personality.&nbsp;&nbsp;I do not want&nbsp;to be known as a slob who has to buck the system to make a point about how much of a geek I am.&nbsp; I&nbsp;also would not walk out of an interview simply because the dress code was higher than I wanted.&nbsp; If the pay wasn&#39;t commensurate with the dress code, than I would not accept it.</p>
  • SnowRaven 2006-11-28 05:09
    <p><em>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</em></p><p>What, exactly, is wrong with watching cartoons?&nbsp; They are a legitimate form of art and entertainment just like cinema, paintings, stage performances, or music.&nbsp;</p>
  • poochner 2006-11-28 09:34
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p><em>So is maturity.&nbsp; Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.</em></p><p>What, exactly, is wrong with watching cartoons?&nbsp; They are a legitimate form of art and entertainment just like cinema, paintings, stage performances, or music.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I don&#39;t see any problem with watching cartoons, unless you&#39;re watching them at work.&nbsp; There are certainly plenty that are targeted at adults, going all the way back to Rocky &amp; Bullwinkle.&nbsp;</p>
  • Florida MVP 2006-11-28 21:39
    <p>I would have to agree to this one too, I personally worry when they ask the &quot;why are you looking for another job&quot; much like the question above. Me personally I always have another job to jump to before leaving a job, so I rarely have why I left a previous job. </p><p>Answering why I&#39;m looking always feels like they will think I&#39;m a money hog or something. Most of the time I get emails asking if I want this job or that, and my first question is how much. Cause if I didn&#39;t like my job I would be the one looking, not them looking for me, at least the way I see it. So for me to leave since I&#39;m not looking, it will have to be for money and a decent chunk more. </p><p>&nbsp;Problem is they always seem taken back by it when I say the truth, I would then reply that I was not the one looking, but if I can do better for my family with another job for more money&nbsp;then I will at least check it out, you guys contacted me. </p><p>&nbsp;Though not long ago I got contacted by my dream company, but I just recently got a new job, so I wasn&#39;t looking, but I went to the interview (they flew me and paid for the car and hotel). When they asked &quot;why are you looking for another job&quot;&nbsp;I said it&#39;s because of who they are, and I always dreamed of working there. They asked if there was anything else and I told them I was bored, things were slow with the project I&#39;m on, problem was they were the contractor that was sub contracting my new employer on the project I was on. They were the reason it was so slow, but I didn&#39;t blame them, I blamed the person leading the project (though I didn&#39;t say that), they knew instantly when I told them what project I was on and that it was one of thier&#39;s.&nbsp; Funny thing I was never offered, and I was never told they were not interested, I never got an email reply back (emailed several times) or phone call returned, I never got a letter in the mail saying thanks but no can hire. Nothing, it&#39;s as if I dropped off the face of the planet. It&#39;s totally werid how it went. I later talked to someone I know with that company and he goes &quot;they will never hire someone from a partner no mater how much they want you, it would set a bad example, if you send your brightest, we will steal them from you, or some bs like that&quot;. </p><p>&nbsp;I&#39;m still very disappointed, the whole interview went south after they found out the project I was on, though all the people in their company that I worked with on that project all love me and gave rave reviews, I&#39;m supposed to be working on some more of that companies projects. Just goes to show, don&#39;t interview with a client of your company, regardless of how bad you want to be with that client.</p>
  • Florida MVP 2006-11-28 22:32
    <p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">I would argue, many are taught when growing up to always make the best first impression, just because day to day work isn&#39;t done in a suit, doesn&#39;t mean that someone that wants to go the extra mile shouldn&rsquo;t be punished. This is the reverse of &quot;he didn&#39;t wear a suit so I don&#39;t like him&quot;. Granted a suit might not fit into the working environment you may have, it doesn&#39;t mean any less of the person, and they just want to present the best image possible. People that want to show their best, might also do their best in other things.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;Personally I think one should just go a notch better then anyone else in the building (to be respectful). If everyone is wearing jeans with holes in them, then maybe you wear jeans with no holes in them. I have personally researched companies I interviewed with, and just to make sure I don&#39;t get lost and come in late because I can&#39;t find the place. I would go and find the place and observe the people going in and out, the day before the interview. First I get to know how others are dressed, I know where it is and I go during the time I interview (so I know what to expect from traffic and such). I read up on what the company is doing and where they are heading and what their goals are. I find out how well they are doing in the stock market if they are public. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;I have found knowing the most one can know about the company shows you are interested, knowing people that already work at the company also helps a lot. I do allot of community work, and knew 4 people at the company I currently work for now, doing all of the above ahead of time, and just one talk with the VP and I was told &quot;Welcome aboard&quot; it was just a matter of how much to pay me. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">Moral of the story is to know what you are getting into and be prepared. Since being with the company in June of 06, I have gained rave reviews by the clients, and yes I&#39;m a consultant in software development, I wear a suite when I first go to a clients site, and once we are cool with each other I go by whatever dress code the client has, that way people don&#39;t feel uncomfortable around me. Personally I work mostly at home, and wear very little, in previous jobs I was never known as the snappy dresser, talk about unwanted attention when I attended a co-workers mothers funeral in a suite, it&#39;s just good to be respectful to the fullest of your abilities.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">It just ticks me to lump someone that wants to dress his best as not being good enough, I see this same kind of attitude when it comes to education. Get some smart butt CS graduate that read your CV and knows you are not a CS or even a 4yr degree holder and comes out and says &ldquo;this is a typical CS question I know&rdquo; and then blurts out the question. Of course I have no idea or have no real smart answer because it&rsquo;s all theory and nothing used in modern software development anymore, or at least in anything I work with and boom I have no answer. I love how they also like to use lots of CS talk and me not coming from that world, I don&rsquo;t always have a great answer. I&rsquo;m a self taught, self motivated person, there isn&rsquo;t anything I can&rsquo;t do and I&rsquo;m great at understanding and digging into technology and finding problems when people said it can&rsquo;t be done. Though I don&rsquo;t always use proper CS terms for what I do. Though some people consider if you don&rsquo;t have a CS degree, you don&rsquo;t know what you are doing. See how that can be the same, it&rsquo;s everywhere.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></p>
  • LKM 2006-11-29 02:39
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">It just ticks me to lump someone that wants to dress his best as not being good enough, I see this same kind of attitude when it comes to education. Get some smart butt CS graduate that read your CV and knows you are not a CS or even a 4yr degree holder and comes out and says &ldquo;this is a typical CS question I know&rdquo; and then blurts out the question. Of course I have no idea or have no real smart answer because it&rsquo;s all theory and nothing used in modern software development anymore, or at least in anything I work with and boom I have no answer. I love how they also like to use lots of CS talk and me not coming from that world, I don&rsquo;t always have a great answer.</span></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;d guess that that is exactly what they&#39;re trying to find out. Your attitude (&quot;<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">it&rsquo;s all theory and nothing used in modern software development anymore&quot;) shows that you are not suited for certain jobs. Where I work, we do some extremely theoretical things - compilers, virtual machines, workflow engines, stuff like that. If you think that &quot;that CS stuff&quot; is all theory and useless in modern software development, a job like this would not be for you. That&#39;s most likely why he asked you these questions: To find out what you can do.</span> <br /></p>
  • Florida MVP 2006-11-29 08:15
    <p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">They weren&#39;t those kinds of questions, mostly the answers were things you would never really do, or extremely rarely do if ever for certain problems, the other issue is they are looking for that stock answer, when the problem can be solved in a number of ways, which I go show on a white board. Half the time they never thought past what they were taught (like robots). I can&#39;t tell you the times they would go &quot;wow, I didn&#39;t think it could be done any other way&quot;. Theories are fine, but when they become rock hard standards to do things and leave little room for a different way then you cut into imagination and the ability to work things out. I work daily with what you said, and can map entire scenarios in my head and look at different perspectives. I&#39;m the guy that takes everything in from meetings and says little, but when I say something everyone shuts up, they know it&#39;s something major.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;No, most of the time the way (body language, behavior) they go about asking these questions is a rub that I&#39;m at the position I&#39;m at while they spent years in school, I never could work well in school, it was extremely boring, I could make A&#39;s just reading something one time. I dropped out at age 16 and got my GED which just about made a perfect score (4 points off). Went on to college and found it just as boring, I would read though entire textbooks. Granted I&#39;m not the greatest at English language, I come from a Spanish background. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;Anyways, I understand what you mean, and can see your point, but asking stock CS&nbsp;questions (names for certain patterns I&#39;ve used most of my professional life that I learned studying code but never knew the stupid name for that pattern is one example) knowing the person isn&#39;t flush in CS education terms, having the gall to go &quot;This is a standard CS question&quot; cause they know I don&#39;t have a CS degree, just to feel smug (you would know what I mean if you saw their face). This happened not long ago at the company I now work for. Come to find out, the guy that was smug about things and got his smirk ripped off (since I&#39;m so bad at CS Terms I ask for more detail and I go to the whiteboard or paper to show). He was a very big supporter in my hiring. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">Though it still urks me as you can tell, it isn&#39;t the first time, it&#39;s just funny that some people feel the need to try to put someone in their place. I think there is a certain bit of resentment on my side as well as their side, my resume and references and community work, can be intimidating and that attitude I get is &quot;lets see if this guy really is as good as they say&quot; though I didn&#39;t make it professionally knowing the silly name and who first came up with it for every little pattern (yes he would ask if I knew the name of the person (this happened more then once with other interviews throughout my history)). </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">My point in general is the attitude that the guy was dressed in a suit, hence he must be covering something up or not as good a programmer, I wear a suit, I know that I will get interviewed by more then the tech manager, it&#39;s only logical. Plus my reasons for wearing a suit is to not look cheap, I want them to give the best possible offer, if I looked like I just came out of goodwill with holes in my jeans as some suggest is aok to go into an interview with then I will not get the amount of money offered&nbsp;I would want.&nbsp; It&#39;s all about perspective and what you appear to be (not cheap) to land you the best offers. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">The education aspect I ranted on has more to do with how some people view their own background and that they can&#39;t understand or acknowledge someone coming though the ranks without the same background. Plus you hear way too often about the hack programmers with no formal training that make big messes. I&#39;ve made big messes, thing is I&#39;ve learned from them over the years and I always strive to learn better ways to do things, have anyone here ever read &quot;who moved my cheese&quot; I know it&#39;s cheesy and all, but it proves a point. If you get comfortable in this field and don&#39;t keep learning everyday, you will become stagnate. I see this all the time, people that did stuff in VB.Classic continue to do things the same way in VB.NET and don&#39;t even want to learn a better way (please no cracks on VB blah blah blah, I program on a regular basis in 4 langs (VB/C#/C++/JS), my point in bringing VB up is a migration in versions and still keeping all your thinking behind the times, much like some of the C++ code that looks all too C, they just never got the concept (or took the time to learn)&nbsp;of OOP in C++ and still did the stuff much the same way they always have). </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;Opps got off topic again, though I think you can get the picture, lets say you got your 4yr degree in CS and have the same number of years experience as the guy you are interviewing, but he&#39;s been around and worked on some big projects and has a big name in the industry in his/her field&nbsp;at least state wide/regional, though does not have your educational background and you know he&#39;s going to be hired at a much higher rate then you. What do you do? You can see why this happens, maybe this is just my thinking but anyone that acknowledges a question may be off base and goes ahead and asks it, is doing just what I&#39;m talking about. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial">&nbsp;Hope everyone has a great holiday.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></p>
  • beaviz 2006-12-01 09:55
    [quote user=&quot;jes5199&quot;]<p>My personal rule of thumb is: don&#39;t fake it. If you&#39;re a lazy slob who likes to sleep late - like me - then don&#39;t pretend to be a type-A go-getter suave-in-a-suit. </p><p>Because, here&#39;s the thing, the people who hire you, well, they&#39;ll expect to see the guy they interviewed <span style="font-style: italic">every day.</span><br />So you might as well go as yourself, and only take the jobs that are actually compatible with your personality (and with your <span style="font-style: italic">actual skills</span>).</p><p>Maybe I&#39;m making less money because I&#39;ve never worn a coat and tie to an interview, but my schedule is flexible, and I have plenty of coffee, and decent technology to play with.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Hear hear!</p><p>I always dress for an interview exactly as I would dress for an ordinary workday. Being honest about one&#39;s work-habits is important too. Don&#39;t say you&#39;ll work 90hrs/week if you like coming in late and leaving early.</p><p>In one sentence: Be honest, it&#39;ll pay off in the end.</p>
  • Phil 2006-12-04 00:31
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;newfweiler&quot;]<br /><br />[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]My response was, &quot;I wanted to try being a full-time mother, and learned that I suck at being a mother and I&#39;d much rather be a programmer&quot;.[/quote]<br />(Interviewer thinks:&nbsp; And how did you dispose of your children?&nbsp; Is about to ask, but doesn&#39;t.&nbsp; A long, uncomfortable silence ensues.)[/quote]<br />Or maybe the interviewer managed to remember that children generally have two parents.[/quote]<br />Or perhaps the interviewer has heard of day care.&nbsp; (She did say full-time mother.)
  • Phil 2006-12-04 00:48
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Real techies don&#39;t spend much time in suits, they are too busy getting things done.[/quote]</p><p>Undoubtedly.&nbsp; However, as others have pointed out, the day-to-day dress standards have little bearing on what you should wear for an interview, which is a formal one-time occasion.<br /></p><p>And no matter how much time I plan to be spending naked and sweaty with a girl in the future, I do dress up for the first date.&nbsp;</p>
  • peter y in sacramento 2006-12-14 11:09
    You know I&#39;ve found that when you&#39;re trying to get the database result set from a string, &quot;rSet.getString(&quot;Message&quot;)&quot;, you can only retrieve 255 characters. When you are updating, &quot;sqlStmt.setString(1, strMessage)&quot;, you are not so restricted. Perhaps he mistakenly applied the actual size a String class can hold and the size you could retrieve from the database.<br />
  • Dev 2006-12-15 02:49
    That has to be the most irrelevant connection made ever. I can understand the part about dressing decent enough for an interview which may decide if you get the job or not, but then saying that since a person has a bod/dressing sense means he must be a lazy hippy is stupid. Some of the most hard working people I have known are casual dressers, to say the least. I am all for dressing the best way possible for an important interview but what if that was the best suit and pair of sneakers he could afford at the particular time? Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in his/her mouth you know :/
  • aselvan 2006-12-15 09:07
    <p>That is funny!. </p><p>Like you, I used to do tech interview (still do on rare occasions) at my past/present employer and have whole list of things I call &#39;gems&#39; collected over the years. You can find it at&nbsp; http://selvans.net/gems/#interview</p><p>Enjoy!&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-12-15 10:03
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>[quote]</p><blockquote><p>A&nbsp;sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn&#39;t fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it. </p><p>..</p><p>&quot;Oh, while I was waiting I figured I&#39;d walk around to check out the place and read some of these books to see what kinds of programming languages you guy&#39;s use here.&quot; </p></blockquote><p>[/quote]</p><p>So what? He dressed badly and was a little too curious.. Using your selection criteria you would have fired both John Carmack and Steve Wozniak.<br />[/quote]</p><p>Agreed.&nbsp;&nbsp;Its not like he was sifting through the boss&#39;s email.&nbsp; It sounds like the guy was a bit socially awkward.&nbsp; But it also sounds like he&#39;s a natural problem solver.&nbsp; ie, he has a question so he seeks&nbsp;out an&nbsp;answer himself rather than sitting around waiting for&nbsp;it to&nbsp;be handed to him.&nbsp; Thats a good attribute.&nbsp; I&#39;ll take that attribute in a programmer any day over a vapid pretty-boy in a nice fitting monkey suit who brags about his MCSE.</p><p>For his&nbsp;suit - its possible there was a reason for his mix-n-match appearence.&nbsp; Especially&nbsp;if he was coming from another job and didnt want to show up there&nbsp;all dressed up (and thus advertise he&nbsp;had an interview).&nbsp;&nbsp; In my past 3 interviews I didnt even wear a suit (jeans and sneakers).&nbsp; Got 3 offers, accepted 2 of them.&nbsp; As one vendor of mine used to say... &#39;never trust a programmer in a suit&#39;. <br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Careful!&nbsp; I&#39;ve never done any corporate espionage myself (per se) but I have brought candidates in for interview primarily due to their experience at a competitor which I was keen to hear about (technologies, working practices, etc).</p><p>I&#39;m not suggesting this young kid was a corporate spy, but if you&#39;ve got interviews with Company A and Company B, for whichever firm you select you could turn up on day one with some valuable insight for that next pitch where both companies are chasing the same client contract.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Erik 2006-12-18 18:28
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Just because I don&#39;t want to dress up doesn&#39;t mean I don&#39;t want to write good code. <br />[/quote]</p><p>I think that hits the nail on the head.&nbsp; Not dressing up in an environment where dressing up is valued, or expected, or a sign of respect, sends the message that <strong>you do what you want to do</strong>, and you are not willing to subordinate what you want to what the company values.&nbsp; Or looking at it another way, it makes you come across as a prima donna, who thinks that the normal rules don&#39;t apply to him.&nbsp; In either case, a company would be stupid to hire such a person.</p>
  • Anon 2006-12-26 08:20
    <p>&gt; &quot;Or maybe the interviewer managed to remember that children generally have two parents.&quot;</p><p>Great, so when she decides she sucks at programming, she&#39;ll ditch the company, foisting the &quot;baby&quot; back on the father.<br /></p>
  • bighusker 2007-01-19 18:26
    dsfgsddsfgsdfgdsffg:
    Here&#39;s an interview I had once as the interviewer with a candidate:Me: &quot;So I&#39;m going to ask you some technical questions now.&quot;Him: &quot;Okay, great.&quot;Me: &quot;I&#39;ll start off really easy just to settle you down.&nbsp; What does HTML stand for?&quot;Him: &quot;Hmm, umm, okay, umm, yeah, umm, umm, umm...&quot;Me: &quot;Okay, thanks, goodbye.&quot;This guy claimed he had three years of web development experience.&nbsp; Yeesh.


    That's a horrible question to ask. Most people who have been in the IT/computer/engineering industry for a long time have just given up on memorizing acronyms because there are too many of them, and a lot are completely meaningless. I consider myself to be a skilled PHP programmer, but until I looked it up just now, I couldn't have told you that it stood for "Hypertext Preprocessor." Furthermore, I became a good PHP programmer because of my experience with Perl, and I forgot what that stood for (Practical Extraction and Report Language) many years ago...

    You would have been better off asking him what the HTML tag for making a link or an image was, as that is actually relevant.
  • something-incredibly-witty 2007-02-28 21:48
    I was interviewed once at a large video games company. During the interview I was taken into a room to solve some problems in diagram form on a whiteboard. The company made a leading racing game, and wanted to know my strategy for exciting camera work whenever the player crashed the car. It was a rambling question of many parts, but as a bounding sphere test is a quick way to test for object intersections, I'd drawn quite a few sphere's on the board, including one around the camera, and another around an object just next to it. I was asked how I would ensure that nothing came between the camera and the focus of the scene, and drew a large capsule shape, as another collision volume, to suggest that if something intersected it the camera should switch to another gantry/effect. Only on standing back did I realise I'd just drawn the standard ten-year-old representation of a penis and testicles. The interviewers were stifling laughter, but I didn't have the courage to join in and pretended nothing happened. In the end, I got the job.
  • Carlos 2007-03-23 13:55
    Totally agree.

    No idea about psichological qualities to remark in a selection procedure.
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  • Kirby L. Wallace 2010-05-01 21:36
    Are you an astronaut? That was a perfectly valid question. Not everyone at NASA is an anstronaut. There are lots of other things to do there, and astronauts come from every job background you could imagine. It's not unreasonable that he may have been one of the astronauts.
  • Daylate Dollarshort 2010-05-21 09:58



    I would say the same thing goes for Apple vs. PC discounter (and Windows XP), but that&#39;s my opinion. In any way, when people wonder why I bought an &quot;expensive&quot; Mac notebook, they don&#39;t take into account how unhappy I&#39;d be with a crappy Dell (I have one at work and that&#39;s enough, thank you) or how much time I&#39;d have to spend to make Windows XP barely usable and secure, let alone fun to use. Of course there is some decent other hardware, and a modern Linux with KDE isn&#39;t bad, but then we&#39;re basically talking about the same price range, unless you are ignoring the fact that even supposedly &quot;premium&quot;, $3000, non-Apple notebooks like the Sony VAIO VGN-AR21S come with a slower processor than the new 17&quot; MacBook Pro, one and a half hours maximum battery life, 100 Mbps Ethernet, no FireWire 800, 533MHz RAM despite presence of a 667MHz FSB, two disks with same total capacity as one disk in the cheaper 17&quot; MBP (think about weight and power consumption), much slower CD burning, and so on. Not to mention the plastic case. :-)


    Man, I can find that same sony computer for like $300. I could also find you a way better computer than your mac book pro for $3000. Really what are you going to do with a 667MHz FSB?
  • Ben 2010-12-06 19:05
    @Peter Szymonik

    This is exactly how I would expect a suit to behave. The real WTF here is the fact that a suit didn't offer a bright and curious candidate a shot, and lacks the self-awareness to recognize that he is the one with a problem.
  • Ben 2010-12-06 19:07
    Oh please ... a company that values what shoes you wear probably isn't worth working for.
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  • Dan 2011-11-25 06:45
    The Wanderer.

    If I was in an interview and knew the interviewer was having those thoughts about my attire I would get the interview over as quickly and painlessly as possible, knowing I had no intention of working for someone that backward.
  • Dan 2011-11-25 06:59
    Phil:
    Undoubtedly.&nbsp; However, as others have pointed out, the day-to-day dress standards have little bearing on what you should wear for an interview, which is a formal one-time occasion.And no matter how much time I plan to be spending naked and sweaty with a girl in the future, I do dress up for the first date.&nbsp;

    If a company or an interviewer has that attitude, then it's already a bad sign. I always wear a decent t-shirt and jeans to work and to interviews. I'll sometimes even tuck the shirt in. I'd rather walk away than waste my time, and ultimately their time and money, on a company where I'll probably be leaving after a short time.

    Long experience has shown me I should dress as myself for dates. There's no point pretending because a woman who baulks at my casual dress is guaranteed to have some serious personality conflicts with me later. Experience has shown the same with work.
  • neminem 2012-06-18 17:50
    mnature:
    As a side note to this type of argument, I would point out that men are quite likely to base their opinion of a woman on her weight and how well she dresses... Before you criticize someone for basing an opinion upon looks alone, you might look at the areas where you do the same thing.&nbsp;

    I am extremely late, but I feel a strange compulsion to respond to this post anyway, in the affirmative: I would base my opinion of a woman I happened to be on a first date with on her dress. Specifically, if she dressed like a hooker, I'd just stop right there and leave, and otherwise, if she were wearing some t-shirt with a geekish slogan on it, I'd be way more immediately interested than if she were trying to dress nice to impress me.

    Not all guys are superficial. In fact, when it comes to clothing, I'm sure there are some who are, but I doubt it's a majority, unless you mean things like "is not wearing clothing that hasn't been washed in a month", or "is not wearing clothing with a large tear in the buttock region, intentional or otherwise".

    Meanwhile, if I were in charge of hiring for a company, which thankfully I'm not (because I have no personal interest in that area), but if I were, I'd probably base my clothing-related decisions similarly.