The Last Straw

  • Warren 2013-08-08 06:36
    Don't go, Snoofle. Where will we get all our best WTFs now?
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 06:40
    @warren: from the government agency where I got the new job?

    seriously folks, if you see a wtf, don't be an apathetic bystander; write it up and send it in!
  • Y 2013-08-08 06:41
    And thusly did TheDailyWTF jump the shark.
  • Y 2013-08-08 06:49
    snoofle, one post about how awesome you are was more than enough. Two in three months is just stroking your, er, ego.
  • Tessellated Cheese 2013-08-08 06:50
    This is a sad, sad day for The Daily WTF, so I will wear black to mourn the loss of WTFs from WTF-Inc.

    I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.
  • dfcowell 2013-08-08 06:56
    I hate to say the entire community at TDWTF told you so... but... they told you so.
  • Strolskon 2013-08-08 07:18
    > JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that
    > will keep things coherent, right?



    That's exactly what someone did to my open source project after I gave him commit access :(
  • gnasher729 2013-08-08 07:19
    Tessellated Cheese:
    I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.


    In a government job, the work done may be WTF, but there is the question what the job itself is like. If what you produce is horrible but your colleagues are nice and your boss is happy with your work and so on, so what?

    In the old place, he was clearly set up for failure. It was absolutely clear from the start who would be getting the blame when the project fails (not _if_ it fails, because it was set up so nobody could possibly succeed).
  • ANON 2013-08-08 07:22
    This story makes me assume two things:

    1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.
    2. This company wasn't mainly a software company, just developed some software for their own use and website.

    Just curious are these assumptions right?
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 07:29
    ANON:
    This story makes me assume two things:

    1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.
    2. This company wasn't mainly a software company, just developed some software for their own use and website.

    Just curious are these assumptions right?
    Close; Manoj IS Indian, but he works on site. (2) - bingo!

    The problem is the management doesn't realize that this is mostly a software shop. And never will. WTF-Inc will crash and burn within 6 months, and MegaCorp, upon investigation, will clean house and start over.
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 07:33
    dfcowell:
    I hate to say the entire community at TDWTF told you so... but... they told you so.
    And you were all absolutely right. I guess I had to prove to myself that walking away WAS the correct thing to do (in the past). Clearly, it was.
  • Hpesoj 2013-08-08 07:33
    ANON:
    This story makes me assume two things:
    1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.


    Surely it's a pseudonym? Looks like a name spelt backwards to me.
  • Joseph 2013-08-08 07:34
    [quote user="snoofle"][quote user="ANON"]Close; Manoj IS Indian, but he works on site.[/quote]

    Fair enough :)
  • barabas 2013-08-08 07:36
    Come on, don't feed his ego by posting more of snoofle's figments of his rich imagination...

    Anyone still not seeing trough his bullshit is way too gullible.
  • Herwig 2013-08-08 07:54
    snoofle:
    @warren: from the government agency where I got the new job?

    seriously folks, if you see a wtf, don't be an apathetic bystander; write it up and send it in!

    How? FTP? ...or may I just relocate my company's repository? Your mail server will not relay mails with that size and number of WTF's
  • Chronomium 2013-08-08 08:01
    Enter Snoofle.
    Please change to "the legendary Snoofle", please and thank you.
  • Peter 2013-08-08 08:08
    "...it was the management that was the problem!"

    Only rarely is this not the case.


    // captcha: facilisis
  • Steve The Cynic 2013-08-08 08:19
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid". You can fix "ignorant" if it isn't hampered by "willfully" (but "willfully ignorant" is a kind of "stupid" rather than a kind of "ignorant", so of course it can't be fixed), by the simple expedient of education of one sort or another.

    However, the best education system in the world (either in-company or nation-wide) can't make stupid people smart. A bad education system can make sure that ignorant (in the neutral sense of not knowing much) smart people become ignorant (in the pejorative sense of grotesquely misinformed) smart people.

    The willfully ignorant, like your (soon to be) previous employer's senior management (and the misfortunate Manoj), will remain willfully ignorant, and the act of sending the most junior member of the team to receive the knowledge transfer tells me everything I need to know about their stupidity.

    And if I did need to know more, the conversation with B+1 and B+2 would suffice to finish the job.

    Sigh. Stupidity does seem to be infectious. Stay smart.
  • ubersoldat 2013-08-08 08:33
    So, your post in the forum from yesterday was to fill up your position? Aha! US$ 70k wouldn't even put me on the door step of WTF-Inc as your replacement.

    Anyway, it might make sense to try to take on WTF-Inc business and clients.
  • zerzerzedfsfqsazerzerazeraazer 2013-08-08 08:38
    snoofle:

    The problem is the management doesn't realize that this is mostly a software shop. And never will. WTF-Inc will crash and burn within 6 months, and MegaCorp, upon investigation, will clean house and start over.


    Out of curiositiy: where is MegaCorp in all this? Are they aware of this and/or what is their opionion about the 'stupid'
  • JayGee 2013-08-08 08:48
    Tessellated Cheese:
    This is a sad, sad day for The Daily WTF, so I will wear black to mourn the loss of WTFs from WTF-Inc.

    I hope your new job is metric assloads better, but given that you're going to a government agency, from everything I've read this may be an even greater source of WTFs. Hopefully your sanity remains intact.


    The real question is, will snoofle be a contractor or government employee. If you're a contractor, enjoy playing the blame game, where government employees are allowed to point the blame at you, but you aren't allowed to point back.

    Not to mention contractors get treated like a second class citizen.
  • mikeTheLiar 2013-08-08 08:50
    Soofle: how long before you can name and shame? Is there a clause in your contract that says "You shall not post non-anonymized tales of the Company's failed management techniques, or lack thereof, until such a time as your employment has been terminated for a minimum of " + years + " years"?
  • cyborg 2013-08-08 08:58
    Chronomium:
    Enter Snoofle.
    Please change to "the legendary Snoofle", please and thank you.


    Ladies and Gentlement please give it up for the Master of Disaster Recovery, the King of Spring(source), the Count of Monte Unit Testo, the Debugging Destroyer...

    Snooooooflleeeeeee!

    /crowd goes wild

    snoofle later dies at the hands of a Russian hacker with a WPM that melts keyboards - it's simple, whatever he hacks, he destroys
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 09:02
    @Where is Mega Corp in all this? Blissfully unaware

    @Will I be an employee/contractor? Contractor

    @How long before I can name names? > 1 year
  • Tim 2013-08-08 09:31
    Actually, you can fix stupid, but firing the people above you is rarely possible and stabbing people is illegal in most countries.
  • C_K 2013-08-08 09:36
    That sounds better than the process here.

    Gather requirements: 15 min verbal
    Functional design: on the fly
    Detailed design: you already did "design"
    Developer ramp up: why aren't you typing yet?
    Coding: You'd be done if you didn't waste time on design and research.
    Developer testing: Just stop making mistakes.
    QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.
    Integration testing: Throw it live and see what happens.
    Stress testing: Take an Excedrin.
    Acceptance testing: Why is this @#$% broken?
  • It's Pat 2013-08-08 09:44
    snoofle:
    @How long before I can name names? > 1 year


    Or 6 months when the company goes down and he can link a news article. :)
  • Flash 2013-08-08 10:17
    snoofle:
    @How long before I can name names? > 1 year
    How many of us have already created reminders in our calendars for 2014-08-08?
  • Jeremy 2013-08-08 10:20
    Meh. Given the choice between the 2 I think I'd rather have "6 months out of school" guy over "30 year veteran" guy.

    I'm sure there are some good ones that keep up, but in my experience those are more like to be the "set in their ways" "you kids and your damned 'functions' and 'loops'" guys.

    They learned gotos and breaks, their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.
  • zelmak 2013-08-08 10:21
    C_K:
    That sounds better than the process here.

    Gather requirements: 15 min verbal
    Functional design: on the fly
    Detailed design: you already did "design"
    Developer ramp up: why aren't you typing yet?
    Coding: You'd be done if you didn't waste time on design and research.
    Developer testing: Just stop making mistakes.
    QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.
    Integration testing: Throw it live and see what happens.
    Stress testing: Take an Excedrin.
    Acceptance testing: Why is this @#$% broken?


    Honest-to-${deity} ... About two months into a (contracted) task, (about two weeks after the systems team received computers and desks to put them at), my boss was systems task lead doing all sorts of interviews and gathering information on what each section did, what their pain points were and what tools they needed, etc. We had a general meeting with all the contractor personnel. One of the company leads on the management team asked: "${myboss}, I understand your need to get and gather requirements, but why can't we just build something?"
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 10:22
    BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors, so there's no way I'm getting my clue bat in there; Mark is the new keeper of the bat, so show him some love...
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 10:38
    Jeremy:
    ...their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.


    Excellent.
  • English Man 2013-08-08 10:46
    Sounds about right...
  • name 2013-08-08 10:47
    snoofle:
    BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors, so there's no way I'm getting my clue bat in there; Mark is the new keeper of the bat, so show him some love...


    Usually it's set up such that the green-network PCs can still access TDWTF; they just need to stay at least three feet away from the red-network PCs at all times.
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 11:03
    I thought clue bats were on the seriously endangered list.
  • flabdablet 2013-08-08 11:07
    snoofle:
    BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors


    Are the dunnies clean?
  • locallunatic 2013-08-08 11:08
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.
  • D-Coder 2013-08-08 11:18
    snoofle:
    BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors...
    Rorschach: None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!
  • Old 30-year veteran 2013-08-08 11:31
    They would even teach us how to do Agile.
    [Description of waterfall follows]

    Been there. This is the quintessential hallmark of a WTF shop.
    Naturally, after reviewing all the changes we've made, he wants to undo everything to put it back to the way he designed it.

    I resisted and pushed it up to senior management...

    FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

    A few phone calls and a couple of interviews later, I have another job.

    B+1: We need you
    Me: I'll be happy to help transition for (n-days)
    B+2: You CAN'T leave...
    Me: ...
    B+2: What about the delivery schedule?
    Me: At this point, I can't help you, however I can ping my network to see if there's someone who is available
    B+2: Eveyone is overloaded now, we assigned this work to you
    Me: I understand
    B+2: We already suspended all the non essential projects: everything that's left is top priority!
    Me: Yeah, that's unfortunate.
    B+2...

    Remember, this is nothing personal; it is business. Offer them nothing and leave as professionally as you can. Remember, YOU ARE FIRING THEM. If the roles were reversed, they'd be a lot less accommodating to you. Be the bigger guy and let them down, but don't go all Stockholm Syndrome on them.

    Argh. BBCode is the real WTF. Learn HTML or GTFO.
  • DrPepper 2013-08-08 11:44
    C_K:

    QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.

    Where I'm working, they're firing the outsourced testing organization that we were using; so the qa manager asked for 4 people inhouse to replace the team of 20 that were doing testing. He got 1/2 person. WTF.
  • yeah 2013-08-08 11:46
    The changing POV (3rd to 1st) in this story is awkward to read
  • Popeye 2013-08-08 11:53
    The 20 week Sprint is awesome.
    I'm a contractor and if I sat on my ass for 20 weeks to produce 2 weeks of product I'd be thrown out on my ass and run over by a bus.
    You gotta love those G-jobs.
    Great for a contractor and you can line up 3 at a time and triple bill the shit outta them.
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-08 11:54
    locallunatic:
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.


    Hunt down and kill all the children, and make sure they never spawn again.
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-08 11:58
    DrPepper:
    C_K:

    QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.

    Where I'm working, they're firing the outsourced testing organization that we were using; so the qa manager asked for 4 people inhouse to replace the team of 20 that were doing testing. He got 1/2 person. WTF.


    Where I work, they reduced their manpower count in the Test department by investing in automated test tools. They already had them, as it happens, they just got someone to tidy tem up and rationalise them and further automate the process. Seems to have been a success, but from where I sit I can see there's still considerable room for improvement.
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 12:03
    "Half a person", or "1 or 2 people"?
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 12:08
    Strolskon:
    > JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that
    > will keep things coherent, right?

    That's exactly what someone did to my open source project after I gave him commit access :(

    That's exactly why they have that "revert" command.
  • Steve The Cynic 2013-08-08 12:09
    locallunatic:
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.

    I'd argue that if you do this, you aren't *fixing* stupid, merely ridding yourself of it, which is a good place to start.
  • DrPepper 2013-08-08 12:11
    eViLegion:
    "Half a person", or "1 or 2 people"?

    One person, half-time. For those of you who are counting: We went from 1 local QA plus 20 off-site QA to 1.5 local QA. And they expect the same amount of testing to get done.
  • DrPepper 2013-08-08 12:14
    Old 30-year veteran:

    FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

    If you're a WTF programmer, that works -- charge them money to do it wrong, then charge them money to do it right. But some of us have higher standards -- we feel bad when we do it wrong. We'd rather leave than continue to do it wrong.
  • Morgie 2013-08-08 12:16
    zelmak:
    One of the company leads on the management team asked: "${myboss}, I understand your need to get and gather requirements, but why can't we just build something?"


    And so "agile development" was born? You'll have a deliverable at the end of the sprint and the customer will tell you that's not what they want. This feeds in to your requirements document as "customer doesn't want X". Eventually you will have narrowed it down to the one thing that they do want. Much quicker than that pesky requirements analysis.
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 12:19
    zerzerzedfsfqsazerzerazeraazer:
    snoofle:

    The problem is the management doesn't realize that this is mostly a software shop. And never will. WTF-Inc will crash and burn within 6 months, and MegaCorp, upon investigation, will clean house and start over.

    Out of curiositiy: where is MegaCorp in all this? Are they aware of this and/or what is their opionion about the 'stupid'

    From personal experience I know this story is pure fabrication: If it were true, it would be about WTF-Inc's problems with the mandatory migration to MegaCorp's systems, not further expansion of WTF-Inc's systems.
  • zaerzaerazerazerzezerzerzerzer 2013-08-08 12:23
    snoofle:
    @Where is Mega Corp in all this? Blissfully unaware


    That's a bit unfortunate.. it would be intresting to know their take on this.. (given that they - at least occasionally - displayed some common sense)
  • lucidfox 2013-08-08 12:27
    Surely TRWTF is JMS?

    I can't really claim expertise in this, but all those design-by-committee technologies just scream "1990s" to me. Java EE, JNDI, JMS, EJB, CORBA, JWTF. Bloated, overengineered cruft designed for ancient versions of Java by people who tried to please everyone but ended up pleasing no one.
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 12:28
    C_K:
    That sounds better than the process here.

    Gather requirements: 15 min verbal
    Functional design: on the fly
    Detailed design: you already did "design"
    Developer ramp up: why aren't you typing yet?
    Coding: You'd be done if you didn't waste time on design and research.
    Developer testing: Just stop making mistakes.
    QA testing: We can't afford to hire people to just sit around testing things.
    Integration testing: Throw it live and see what happens.
    Stress testing: Take an Excedrin.
    Acceptance testing: Why is this @#$% broken?
    Hey! I used to work there! How's it going at (insert name of Fortune 500 company)?
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 12:33
    locallunatic:
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.
  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL 2013-08-08 12:34
    Because you can't fix stupid and dilligent.
    Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord:
    I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent -- he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief.

  • The_Assimilator 2013-08-08 12:34
    Matt Westwood:
    Hunt down and kill all the children, and make sure they never spawn again.


    <Tiny Tina voice> BURN ALL THE BABIES!

    DrPepper:
    Old 30-year veteran:

    FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

    If you're a WTF programmer, that works -- charge them money to do it wrong, then charge them money to do it right. But some of us have higher standards -- we feel bad when we do it wrong. We'd rather leave than continue to do it wrong.


    Correct. Some of us, like snoofle, take pride in our work.
  • ArrivingRaptor 2013-08-08 12:37
    I know of few things more dangerous than a management-type learning about Agile. They'll round-peg that square hole until either you're doing Frankenstein waterfall (which, as someone else pointed out, happened here), or your boss starts assigning blame because you aren't building software any faster (which the Agile manifesto technically does not promise, but what almost all Agile evangelists interpret "working software" to mean).
  • locallunatic 2013-08-08 12:41
    Some Damn Yank:
    locallunatic:
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.

    Well yeah, but if you are going to do proper disposal meat grinders, amonia and/or bleach (but not at the same time!), and a drain is the proper way to get rid of human waste.
  • programmerj 2013-08-08 12:45
    As a "25 year veteran" I take slight offense to your generalization of older developers. I take pride in continuous self-education...we aren't all dinosaurs.

    Now get the hell off my lawn!
  • Spectre 2013-08-08 13:08
    Shouldn't Snoofle be bolded instead of Manoj?
  • C_K 2013-08-08 13:09
    Some Damn Yank:
    C_K:
    That sounds better than the process here.

    Hey! I used to work there! How's it going at (insert name of Fortune 500 company)?


    Actually, it's a three man shop. The CEO finds investors, the marketing director is my direct boss and I am tasked with development and system admin.
  • snoofle 2013-08-08 13:09
    zaerzaerazerazerzezerzerzerzer:
    snoofle:
    @Where is Mega Corp in all this? Blissfully unaware


    That's a bit unfortunate.. it would be intresting to know their take on this.. (given that they - at least occasionally - displayed some common sense)
    Mega Corp does not have any systems even remotely like those of WTF-Inc. They bought WTF-Inc to jump in and catch up to the rest of the industry. Just after the buyout, we were mandated to migrate everything, which turned out to be a logistical nightmare, given the wtf-state-of-things here. As such, it was dialed back to: just restrict facility access, db access, encrypt passwords, and similar things. However, nothing has been migrated to big-corp type "process".

    I just came from a meeting with some higher ups at Mega Corp to turn in my final code-audit reports, and let them know I was leaving. Naturally, they asked Why? I laid it all out for them. They were not happy. Apparently, they had me penciled in for leading that charge down the road. It's going to hit the fan in the next week or so; unfortunately, I won't be here to see what happens, so there's no way to let you guys know...
  • n+1 2013-08-08 13:20
    "JWTF"

    LOL.
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 13:22
    DrPepper:
    eViLegion:
    "Half a person", or "1 or 2 people"?

    One person, half-time. For those of you who are counting: We went from 1 local QA plus 20 off-site QA to 1.5 local QA. And they expect the same amount of testing to get done.


    If you include that added testing of your patience, they're probably right.
  • Kevin 2013-08-08 13:23
    The waterfall development cycle broken down into 2-week "Agile Iterations" cracked me up!
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 13:23
    Some Damn Yank:
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.


    Clearly you make the stupid do the digging. Are you stupid or something?
  • Jay 2013-08-08 13:50

    Gather customer requirements - 2 weeks
    Functional Design - 2 weeks
    Detailed Design - 2 weeks
    Developer Ramp Up - 2 weeks (familiarizing themselves with the specific
    code to be modified, new libraries, etc)
    Coding - 2 weeks
    Developer Testing - 2 weeks
    QA Testing - 2 weeks
    Integration Testing - 2 weeks
    Stress Testing - 2 weeks
    Customer acceptance testing - 2 weeks


    There are so many flaws to this schedule that I hardly know where to begin. Not that I doubt that someone came up with this schedule. I've had very similar ones imposed on me. But it's insane.

    1. As you say, coding squeezed in as a mere 10% of the total project.

    2. Supposing you can get customer requirements in only 2 weeks. This is only possible for the most trivial of projects. It's hard to even manage to schedule a meeting for all relevant people within 2 weeks, never mind get them to agree on the requirements.

    3. No time provided to fix problems that come out of testing. The result of testing is almost never, "yup, everything works as expected". It's almost always, "Here's a long list of all the bugs. And here's an even longer list of all the things that, now that we've seen what we asked for in operation, we realize that what we asked for isn't what we really need."
  • herby 2013-08-08 13:51
    Just an observation:

    Why is it that every new software methodology is touted as the cure-all for not delivering on time. Then when it doesn't work, another more modern methodology pops up and the PHBs want to go that route.

    Every time, there is a WTF in waiting as the old methodologies fail, and the new ones with great excitement wander down the blissful road to the next failure.

    The same can be said of some software languages to some extent.

    So, when you get the directive from "higher up" that they have found the next great thing, treat it with a grain of salt.
  • Jay 2013-08-08 13:54
    On my very first IT job, 30 years or so ago, someone had a poster of the REAL systems development life cycle. It went something like this (recreating from memory):

    1. Collection of user requirements
    2. Coding
    3. Testing
    4. Collection of real user requirements
    5. Growing panic
    6. Search for the guilty
    7. Punishment of the innocent
    8. Bonuses and promotions for the non-participants
  • Jay 2013-08-08 14:05
    herby:
    Just an observation:

    Why is it that every new software methodology is touted as the cure-all for not delivering on time. Then when it doesn't work, another more modern methodology pops up and the PHBs want to go that route.

    Every time, there is a WTF in waiting as the old methodologies fail, and the new ones with great excitement wander down the blissful road to the next failure.

    The same can be said of some software languages to some extent.

    So, when you get the directive from "higher up" that they have found the next great thing, treat it with a grain of salt.


    Ditto.

    When I started in this business in 1980 (yes, there were computers then), all the industry experts were pushing "structured programming". This was apparently successful enough that people started calling every new thing "structured": "structured design" (which had nothing to do with structured programming), "structured testing", etc.

    But for some mysterious reason, this did not solve all of our problems. So the next big thing was "top-down design".

    A few years later there was "modular programming", which in practice was pretty much the opposite of top-down design. Funny how that worked: X didn't solve all of our problems, so let's try anti-X.

    Then came "object-oriented programming".

    Then a few years back we got a rush of new scheduling methodologies: agile, test-driven development, etc.

    Each new thing is always touted as the solution to all of our problems. I have fond memories of hearing over an over how if we just use the new methodology, it will no longer matter if our programmers are inexperienced or unskilled, somehow the magic of the new methodology will bring the project so a successful conclusion. A couple of times I've asked how this could possibly be true, and of course it is explained to me how I am just not understanding how the new system works if I could possibly ask such a foolish question. Maybe next time I'll ask why, if the skill level of the programmers doesn't matter, why do we need programmers at all? Why not just hire some people who couldn't qualify for fast food jobs? Why not just rent some monkeys from the zoo?

    Oh, don't get me wrong, some of these new methodologies have good ideas in them. But I have yet to see one that really solves all of our problems. Most are small steps in the right direction. Some are steps in the wrong direction. Many could be debated endlessly.
  • Anomaly 2013-08-08 14:45
    Jay:
    herby:
    Just an observation:

    Why is it that every new software methodology is touted as the cure-all for not delivering on time. Then when it doesn't work, another more modern methodology pops up and the PHBs want to go that route.

    Every time, there is a WTF in waiting as the old methodologies fail, and the new ones with great excitement wander down the blissful road to the next failure.

    The same can be said of some software languages to some extent.

    So, when you get the directive from "higher up" that they have found the next great thing, treat it with a grain of salt.


    Ditto.

    When I started in this business in 1980 (yes, there were computers then), all the industry experts were pushing "structured programming". This was apparently successful enough that people started calling every new thing "structured": "structured design" (which had nothing to do with structured programming), "structured testing", etc.

    But for some mysterious reason, this did not solve all of our problems. So the next big thing was "top-down design".

    A few years later there was "modular programming", which in practice was pretty much the opposite of top-down design. Funny how that worked: X didn't solve all of our problems, so let's try anti-X.

    Then came "object-oriented programming".

    Then a few years back we got a rush of new scheduling methodologies: agile, test-driven development, etc.

    Each new thing is always touted as the solution to all of our problems. I have fond memories of hearing over an over how if we just use the new methodology, it will no longer matter if our programmers are inexperienced or unskilled, somehow the magic of the new methodology will bring the project so a successful conclusion. A couple of times I've asked how this could possibly be true, and of course it is explained to me how I am just not understanding how the new system works if I could possibly ask such a foolish question. Maybe next time I'll ask why, if the skill level of the programmers doesn't matter, why do we need programmers at all? Why not just hire some people who couldn't qualify for fast food jobs? Why not just rent some monkeys from the zoo?

    Oh, don't get me wrong, some of these new methodologies have good ideas in them. But I have yet to see one that really solves all of our problems. Most are small steps in the right direction. Some are steps in the wrong direction. Many could be debated endlessly.


    So we could munge them all together to create the first enterprisey methodology. Schedules are released in XML, Requirements collected in an access database, coders, designers and other personnel managed through excel spreadsheets.

    IT WILL BE THE NEW GOLDEN STANDARD.

    Captcha: persto - And persto! All the problems are solved.
  • nqdenise 2013-08-08 14:46
    Am I reading this correctly? So they came up with a plan where every sprint is the next phase of waterfall development? That is incredibly entertaining!
  • eViLegion 2013-08-08 15:13
    It never seems to occur to most managers that "just getting on with it" is actually a pretty efficient way of getting stuff done.

    Though, to be fair, I've never actually been managed by those managers, so possibly I'm making that shit up.
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 16:03
    eViLegion:
    Some Damn Yank:
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.

    Clearly you make the stupid do the digging. Are you stupid or something?
    When I dispose of bodies I try to minimize the witnesses. That means digging the shallow graves myself.
  • Paul Neumann 2013-08-08 16:06
    Some Damn Yank:
    When I dispose of bodies I try to minimize the witnesses. That means digging the shallow graves myself.
    They dig, you fill. *headpalm*
  • Some Damn Yank 2013-08-08 16:13
    Paul Neumann:
    Some Damn Yank:
    When I dispose of bodies I try to minimize the witnesses. That means digging the shallow graves myself.
    They dig, you fill. *headpalm*
    Sorry, but I don't have an army of minions (yet). The only people I could get to dig a grave for me would be friends or relatives, and I don't have enough of either to squander.
  • DCRoss 2013-08-08 16:28
    Some Damn Yank:
    Paul Neumann:
    Some Damn Yank:
    When I dispose of bodies I try to minimize the witnesses. That means digging the shallow graves myself.
    They dig, you fill. *headpalm*
    Sorry, but I don't have an army of minions (yet). The only people I could get to dig a grave for me would be friends or relatives, and I don't have enough of either to squander.

    Maybe a demonstration is in order.

    Here's a shovel. Start digging.

    Don't worry, I will dispose of the witnesses when you're finished.
  • s73v3r 2013-08-08 17:01
    Old 30-year veteran:

    Naturally, after reviewing all the changes we've made, he wants to undo everything to put it back to the way he designed it.

    I resisted and pushed it up to senior management...

    FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!



    Or he's going to be the one blamed when shit goes pear-shaped. Do you honestly think they're going to listen to a contractor over the word of someone that they promoted and then put in charge?

    CAPTCHA: Causa - Despite the deficiencies in the design, they're gonna say the causa of the problem is the contractor.
  • s73v3r 2013-08-08 17:02
    Popeye:
    The 20 week Sprint is awesome.
    I'm a contractor and if I sat on my ass for 20 weeks to produce 2 weeks of product I'd be thrown out on my ass and run over by a bus.
    You gotta love those G-jobs.
    Great for a contractor and you can line up 3 at a time and triple bill the shit outta them.


    This one isn't a G-job. This is private sector. Once again proving that government or private doesn't matter, as any organization of sufficient size can be run by incompetent people.
  • s73v3r 2013-08-08 17:11
    eViLegion:
    Some Damn Yank:
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.


    Clearly you make the stupid do the digging. Are you stupid or something?


    I've not really understood how this works. Unless the person about to be executed was stalling for time, why would you dig? What're they gonna do, shoot you?
  • Apeiron 2013-08-08 17:15
    s73v3r:
    eViLegion:
    Some Damn Yank:
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.


    Clearly you make the stupid do the digging. Are you stupid or something?


    I've not really understood how this works. Unless the person about to be executed was stalling for time, why would you dig? What're they gonna do, shoot you?


    Simple: If they don't waste time while digging, it ends quickly for them. If they start stalling, you start shooting toes off. Then fingers. Etc. You just have to find the right motivation to show them that not stalling will end better for them.
  • darkmattar 2013-08-08 17:58
    Jeremy:

    They learned gotos and breaks, their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.


    That's pretty bad, even for a car as old as Grandpa Simpson's must have been.

    My car gets more like a half million rods to the hogshead.

    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=500000+rods+%2Fhogshead+to+miles+%2F+gallon
  • Joe 2013-08-08 17:59
    Things like "My software architecture is better than his software architecture" is always a bad start in a discussion with management. What they hear is "That other software developer is playing with my toy. Stop him."

    However, what they react to is "This software is going to be changed in a way which will incapacitate it within 3 weeks from now. Production it at risk. The following requirements will fail: X, Y, Z. I'm going to put that in an email before the end of the day and you will be the recipients." In your case, list some from the NFRs realm for X, Y, Z.

    Add some horrific and colorful consequences from the business perspective.

    Take! Their! Damn! View!

    But I forgot: if you did this, you wouldn't work in software development, but in product management.

    If you are really committed to the project, don't rant software developer stories but learn to argue.
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-08 18:18
    locallunatic:
    Some Damn Yank:
    locallunatic:
    Steve The Cynic:
    The Legendary SNOOFLE:
    It was my own fault for thinking that I could fix "stupid".

    No, sorry, you can't fix "stupid".

    Yes you can fix stupid; you fix it for everyone else with method of choice, a shovel, and empty rural block of land.
    The people who say this have never tried to dig in an empty rural block of land.

    Very difficult. Lots of roots. Farmland better.

    Well yeah, but if you are going to do proper disposal meat grinders, amonia and/or bleach (but not at the same time!), and a drain is the proper way to get rid of human waste.


    Rubbish.

    Meat grinders, burger buns and a rock festival nearby.
  • Someone 2013-08-08 19:02
    Apeiron:
    Simple: If they don't waste time while digging, it ends quickly for them. If they start stalling, you start shooting toes off. Then fingers. Etc. You just have to find the right motivation to show them that not stalling will end better for them.

    So what do you do after you shoot of the first toe, the person says "OK fine I'll dig", and then comes after you with the shovel?
  • Cat 2013-08-08 19:51
    Here's how you should have handled it:

    JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that will keep things coherent, right?
    You: No.
    JD: But it COULD work, right?
    You: No.
    JD: But I CAN do it that way?
    You: No.


    When there really is only one right way to do things, don't even give people the options to choose wrong ways, because absolutely invariably, they will.
  • chubertdev 2013-08-08 19:52
    Strolskon:
    > JD: So I can just synchronize all the methods in all the classes; that
    > will keep things coherent, right?



    That's exactly what someone did to my open source project after I gave him commit access :(


    Branch, review, merge.
  • Norman Diamond 2013-08-08 20:15
    snoofle:
    ANON:
    1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.
    Close; Manoj IS Indian, but he works on site.
    If the guy is located in America and has an American Indian name then one can guess he doesn't work from offshore, but if the guy has an English name then one should assume he works in the UK, or if he has a Japanese name then one should assume he works in Japan.

    But what about me? I have an English name but I've never worked in the UK. I'm working onshore, right here in Japan. My boss has a Japanese name but he's working offshore, in Canada.

    Now, which site is on site? It might be onshore somewhere, but it's offshore from Japan.
  • fleg 2013-08-08 21:20
    Jeremy:
    Meh. Given the choice between the 2 I think I'd rather have "6 months out of school" guy over "30 year veteran" guy.

    I'm sure there are some good ones that keep up, but in my experience those are more like to be the "set in their ways" "you kids and your damned 'functions' and 'loops'" guys.

    They learned gotos and breaks, their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.
    I agree. And they're more likely to listen and try to learn (especially if they're taking over an important position). And they probably have a longer future (although I'll grant not necessarily with the company).
    In fact, I haven't worked with too many awesome 30 year veterans, and it seems people peak somewhere between 3 and 10 years, and then either:
    1) Move away from IT
    2) Lose interest because technology changes
    3) Plateu (remarkably rare)
    4) Resist change, and insist COBOL is still awesome
    5) Become managers and lose any recollection of life as a code monkey
    6) Hang around as 'experts' - where they get paid well, have no input in anything, and nobody actually knows what would happen if you sacked them

    most of the 30 year types I've met are somewhere between 2,4, and 6....

    Myself, I think I've peaked and like to think I'm at 3, but I can see a lot of 4 in me as well (%s/COBOL/C/)...
  • Vlad Patryshev 2013-08-08 21:26
    Oh, the last part looks familiar.
    In one of my previous companies I had some data that refreshed regularly cached in an immutable table, similar to double buffering in video. Then passing it to a junior guy that happened to be a friend of my manager, the talk was like this.
    - need to write 'synchronized'
    - it's immutable, it does not need to be synchronized
    - still you need to write 'synchronized'
    - immutable structures don't need synchronization
    - you need 'synchronized'

    etc.

    Since he was the manager's friend, not me, guess who, in the eyes of the whole ladder of idiots, was wrong here eventually.
  • Jim 2013-08-08 21:27
    quote user="snoofle"]BTW: The place where I'm going is protected by 7x24 armed guards, floor to ceiling bullet proof glass, and bidirectional electronic locks on all doors, so there's no way I'm getting my clue bat in there; Mark is the new keeper of the bat, so show him some love...[/quote]They caught up with you, eh? Don't worry, you could still win the appeal....

  • gsdz 2013-08-08 21:34
    DrPepper:
    Old 30-year veteran:

    FAIL. You're a consultant (or employee). Offer your opinion (if asked), then implement their way. When it fails, fix it. If it incurs massive technical debt, who cares? You're making money to fix it!

    If you're a WTF programmer, that works -- charge them money to do it wrong, then charge them money to do it right. But some of us have higher standards -- we feel bad when we do it wrong. We'd rather leave than continue to do it wrong.
    Exactly. And even the most awesome of us occasionally let a bug in, or are the only ones that understand (so are kept just in case) or have misinterpreted that when the client said they wanted A rather than B they actually meant C which might be similar to C. Also the client decided that what they wanted originalyl doesn't actually work how they expected.
    etc ad infinitum
  • grisle 2013-08-08 22:09
    Joe:
    Things like "My software architecture is better than his software architecture" is always a bad start in a discussion with management. What they hear is "That other software developer is playing with my toy. Stop him."

    However, what they react to is "This software is going to be changed in a way which will incapacitate it within 3 weeks from now. Production it at risk. The following requirements will fail: X, Y, Z. I'm going to put that in an email before the end of the day and you will be the recipients." In your case, list some from the NFRs realm for X, Y, Z.

    Add some horrific and colorful consequences from the business perspective.

    Take! Their! Damn! View!

    But I forgot: if you did this, you wouldn't work in software development, but in product management.

    If you are really committed to the project, don't rant software developer stories but learn to argue.
    It doesn't work out that way. You tell them they're doing it wrong and they're going to crash and burn, and they ask "what would you know".

    Then when it crashes and burns it's because you didn't do it their way properly - you sabotaged it. You even sent out the emails suggesting this would happen (whoich nobody could predict, because they couldn't) ergo you are a saboteur)
  • The Vehicle Formerly Known as PathFinder 2013-08-08 23:40
    Hpesoj:


    ANON:
    1. Manoj is an Indian name, so I assume he worked from offshore.

    Surely it's a pseudonym? Looks like a name spelt backwards to me.


    I can attest it is not a pseudonym. I once fired a Manoj for being utterly incompetent, slow witted and unable to learn or understand even the smallest things. It is a good thing for him that breathing is controlled autonomous by the respiratory control center.

    Perhaps I should let that shop should hire me before it is too late?
  • The Vehicle Formerly Known as PathFinder 2013-08-08 23:49
    [quote user="Jay"][quote user="herby"] Many could be debated endlessly.[/quote]

    Which is exactly why we have internet forums!
  • flabdablet 2013-08-09 00:19
    Jay:
    herby:
    ... when you get the directive from "higher up" that they have found the next great thing, treat it with a grain of salt.


    Ditto.

    When I started in this business in 1980 (yes, there were computers then), all the industry experts were pushing "structured programming".
    ...
    Each new thing is always touted as the solution to all of our problems. I have fond memories of hearing over an over how if we just use the new methodology, it will no longer matter if our programmers are inexperienced or unskilled, somehow the magic of the new methodology will bring the project so a successful conclusion. A couple of times I've asked how this could possibly be true, and of course it is explained to me how I am just not understanding how the new system works if I could possibly ask such a foolish question...


    Any project manager who doesn't have a well-thumbed copy of The Mythical Man-Month on their shelf is not worth working with.
  • Jon 2013-08-09 04:12
    [quote user="Jay"][quote]

    2. Supposing you can get customer requirements in only 2 weeks. This is only possible for the most trivial of projects. It's hard to even manage to schedule a meeting for all relevant people within 2 weeks, never mind get them to agree on the requirements.

    [/quote]

    Not two weeks, but one day. This is called "scrum".
  • zerzerzedfsfqsazerzerazeraazer 2013-08-09 04:39
    snoofle:
    I just came from a meeting with some higher ups at Mega Corp to turn in my final code-audit reports, and let them know I was leaving. Naturally, they asked Why? I laid it all out for them. They were not happy. Apparently, they had me penciled in for leading that charge down the road. It's going to hit the fan in the next week or so; unfortunately, I won't be here to see what happens, so there's no way to let you guys know...


    I'm sure you'll find a way to let us know...

    From your previous posts it looked like you had a good relationship with your boss (now B+1) and were like minded (given that he was aware that you are posting about it and even informing/pointing several things out)... So maybe that's an angle to get the information out. (Assuming the relationship is still good and the bridge was not burned)
  • Unisol 2013-08-09 04:50
    Hi snoofle.

    I'm ambivalent on this news: from one point of view, you're leaving the WTF, Inc and will hopefully land in more sane environment. From other, we are losing steady stream of 'how it shouldn't be done' stories.
    Maybe there's some guy in WTF, Inc you are going to keep contact with? A lunch together every week, a story is shared, everyone is happy. Or you could even point him here, if you aren't afraid of deanonymization, of course.

    That said, good luck in the new place.
  • J. Doe (jr) 2013-08-09 05:06
    grisle:
    It doesn't work out that way. You tell them they're doing it wrong and they're going to crash and burn, and they ask "what would you know".

    Then when it crashes and burns it's because you didn't do it their way properly - you sabotaged it. You even sent out the emails suggesting this would happen (whoich nobody could predict, because they couldn't) ergo you are a saboteur)

    Sorry, I don't get your point. You're telling me they ask me "How would you do it?" and I respond with my plan, they however decide to stick to their plan and then it's my fault? Which reason could they give for that? That it just failed because I wanted it to fail? Would be quite far-fetched because I could argue "I just followed orders".

    However, of course snoofle could warn the project manager before working up his way to mgmt. In written form of course.

    If the project manager doesn't react to it, of course he can blame snoofle for sabotaging and for make his own prophecy come true - but that is just a short relief because it won't make the application run any faster. To do that, the project manager needs snoofle. Which looks funny if he has either blamed or even fired him only days before.
  • old guy 2013-08-09 10:27
    Eh, it's all about the same. There were a lot of bad programmers then. and there are a lot more bad programmers now. Back then we used to say "you can write FORTRAN" in any language, meaning that most programmers didn't understand any data structure more complex than an array. Today there are still a lot of FORTRAN programmers cutting-and-pasting their was in Java and C# and PHP.
  • Anarud 2013-08-09 11:43
    Hey Snoofle!

    Good for you. If management is so stupid as to revert to old ways, then they are unworthy of your presence.

    Best of luck on the new gig :)
  • ForFoxSake 2013-08-09 13:29
    You took a government job? You must be young, inexperienced yourself, or just a glutton for punishment. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the flame.
  • charles 2013-08-09 13:45
    I'm offended at this article.

    In the previous 8 years or so that I've been a reader, the Daily WTF has always held the following policies:

    1. Always bold the name of the storyteller
    2. Always redact the real names of people who aren't the storyteller.
    3. Use some objectivity and distance - don't complain, but report.
    4. Never post from the first person.

    These things keep TDWTF from being a personal blog, diatribe or forum, and instead maintains a semi-professional newspaper-like decorum. No one wants to hear how smart the author thinks they are, or how stupid they think their management is. Those sorts of posts belong in the sidebar forum.

    I guess a good rule of thumb is that if you're telling the story in a way you'd tell your good friend, change it. We're not your friends, snoofle. We're readers. Some of us would never hire you because, frankly, you sound like an obnoxious, condescending and unprofessional jerk.

    I come here for a good story and a laugh, not a disjointed rant and blamefest. Reading your personal rant posts makes me feel like a worse person. Please stop.
  • Jay 2013-08-09 13:53
    Jeremy:
    Meh. Given the choice between the 2 I think I'd rather have "6 months out of school" guy over "30 year veteran" guy.

    ... said the kid who was six months out of school.

    Okay, I started in this business in 1980, so let's see ... pulling out my slide rule ... that would be 33 years now.

    Personally, I'm more interested in learning new things now than I was 25 years ago. I spent about 14 years doing Java, so when I had an opportunity to get a job using VB and dot-net I jumped at it. Why? Because after 14 years doing things one way, I was bored and wanted to try something different.

    Are there old programmers who are convinced that punch cards and paper tape are coming back and the Internet is a passing fad? I'm sure there are. But I'm trying to think of one that I worked with and I really can't.

    Oh, I've known people who refused to learn anything new. For example, I remember when PCs first came out. Many of my co-workers were convinced that mainframes were "serious" computing and PCs were toys. (To this day I remember one programmer saying how PCs were useless because if a program failed, they wouldn't give you an ABEND dump.) But that wasn't just old people, plenty of the younger ones thought that, too.

    But let's bear in mind that there's a flip side to "willingness to learn new things", and that's chasing after every new thing. I think it was G. K. Chesterton who said that while it is irrational to reject the new out of a mindless devotion to tradition, it is just as irrational to embrace the new out of a fascination with novelty. Let's be blunt: most new ideas fail. The bad old ways have at least passed the test of time.
  • D-dub 2013-08-09 14:58
    And yellow-network PCs...

    Actually now that almost everything is fiber, they've loosened up on the physical space concerns a bit. KVMs are even in use in many places.
  • Flash 2013-08-09 15:06
    J. Doe (jr):
    grisle:
    It doesn't work out that way. You tell them they're doing it wrong and they're going to crash and burn, and they ask "what would you know".

    Then when it crashes and burns it's because you didn't do it their way properly - you sabotaged it. You even sent out the emails suggesting this would happen (whoich nobody could predict, because they couldn't) ergo you are a saboteur)

    Sorry, I don't get your point. You're telling me they ask me "How would you do it?" and I respond with my plan, they however decide to stick to their plan and then it's my fault? Which reason could they give for that?
    Reason? They would just forget (or deny) that you ever warned them. If your warning was in writing, they would still blame you because the project failed in some way that was slightly different from the way you predicted...so it's still your fault!
  • Your Name 2013-08-09 15:08
    Joe Michael Straczynski?
  • Your Name 2013-08-09 15:09
    Your Name:
    Joe Michael Straczynski?


    Dang, Quote did not show up. Someone was complaining about JMS.
  • nope 2013-08-09 16:49
    The only person who is stupid is the one who doesnt take a chair leg and beat this snoozle twat to a bloody pulp.
    Last time we heard from him he was whining that some potential employer hadnt asked him the right questions in an interview and so missed out on the joy of having him work with them, then next we hear that another employer was too quick to offer him a job and again was not going to have the that deep joy. Now we find that he is still at his old job, still whining and still nobody has done the decent thing and kicked the crap out of him
  • nope 2013-08-09 17:02
    And the really shocking issue with this snoofle twat is not only has nobody taken him outside and kicked him to death, but his incessant whining and bullshit seems to represent the attitude of a lot of shithead programmers.
  • well 2013-08-10 09:08
    sad story. but good one
  • the legendary gibbon 2013-08-10 17:31
    The WTF is a consultant that just wouldn't outright ignore Manoj. Make the assumption that Manoj is a legacy employee with no read clout. People like that tend to bark because they know they won't be fired. However since they can't actually get anyone else fired...
  • Beta 2013-08-11 00:18
    J. Doe (jr):

    Sorry, I don't get your point. You're telling me they ask me "How would you do it?" and I respond with my plan, they however decide to stick to their plan and then it's my fault? Which reason could they give for that? That it just failed because I wanted it to fail? Would be quite far-fetched because I could argue "I just followed orders".


    "You didn't do your part! You resented our decision not to do it your way, so you decided not to participate at all. Yes, we know you accomplished a few little pieces, but right here in our schedule it says you were supposed to do about twenty times as much in half the time. We saved the email where we reminded you about this, and still you failed!"

    This is not exaggeration, it has actually happened to me. With much persistence I got a manager to admit -- in writing -- that if my account of what I had been asked to do differed from my boss's account, and I had documentary proof that my account was the correct one, then that would simply be taken as proof that I had failed to correctly interpret my boss's wishes. I still want to see that woman keelhauled.
  • Flaber Ghasted 2013-08-12 04:20
    charles:
    I come here for a good story and a laugh, not a disjointed rant and blamefest. Reading your personal rant posts makes me feel like a worse person. Please stop.


    I entirely agree. I was settling in to see how Manoj P. would suffer in heroic silence, enabling The Founder's vision to the best of his ability.

    Suddenly there's a shift to first-person, and it changes from Manoj P.'s story to somebody else. "Snoofle"? At first I thought this was a nick-name for the guy that finally hammered in the last nails in the coffin of the Founder's vision, but no.

    http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Trust-Your-Instincts.aspx

    And seriously. What sort of Richard overloads a fresh-out-of-school programmer with a single-sentence summary of the entire architectual model and expects it to stick?

    FG
  • acsi 2013-08-12 18:14
    Y:
    snoofle, one post about how awesome you are was more than enough. Two in three months is just stroking your, er, ego.


    I'm beginning to think that Snoofle is full of shit.
  • Resa 2013-08-13 23:52
    I thought that this was about me. This was my life once.
  • test 2013-08-14 00:22
    test
  • Mawg 2013-08-15 22:44
    Jeremy:
    Meh. Given the choice between the 2 I think I'd rather have "6 months out of school" guy over "30 year veteran" guy.

    I'm sure there are some good ones that keep up, but in my experience those are more like to be the "set in their ways" "you kids and your damned 'functions' and 'loops'" guys.

    They learned gotos and breaks, their car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way they likes it.


    Can someone please explain what is wrong with a "break;" statement? (and what the alternative is?)

    Captcha : dinosore
  • Asad 2013-08-19 05:52
    > Can someone please explain what is wrong with a "break;" statement?

    It gives us the gross (but irrational) feeling that the GC won't clean up all the shit our method is leaving in limbo.

    > (and what the alternative is?)

    Personally I feel your methods should always have a fixed return type and should return it **no matter what**. Failing this, they should explode into a really loud exception (possibly one that blows a raspberry).

    Whoever's consuming/extending your objects should never have to write a null check before using the result from your method. If they call the method when the program state isn't right and you don't know what to return, sound the alarm. They need to know about it and add a try-catch.
  • Alsee 2013-09-09 12:59
    Flaber Ghasted:
    What sort of Richard overloads a fresh-out-of-school programmer with a single-sentence summary of the entire architectual model and expects it to stick?

    FG


    Snoofle's boss.

    "it was decided that I should spend a week offloading knowledge on how the multithreading in the application works. For this, they designate the most junior developer on staff to sit with me"

    And I take it that the "single-sentence summary" was merely illustrative of how that week went.