The Old Switch n' Bait

  • np 2013-08-01 06:43
    Sounds like something I'd go for as well.
    Hire my wife as a telecommuter. She'll produce great code for you...
    So what if it looks identical to mine. It isn't like I don't have another 8 hours to my day to double my income.
  • Dhamp 2013-08-01 06:57
    Sounds pretty standard practice for agencies.

    Like the ones who insist on me being a perfect fit for SAP Basis consultancy roles despite having only client support experience.
  • Sunil Sdlavrot 2013-08-01 07:02
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...
  • ochrist 2013-08-01 07:07
    But did they hire him?
  • Cujo 2013-08-01 07:12
    Previous to my employment there, the place I'm currently working hired someone who was Chinese, though it probably could be any race that "all look the same to us stupid Americans". The interview and technical questions at the in person interview went amazingly well. A few weeks later the new candidate shows up and is completely clueless.
    I've never found out if this guy had a twin brother but I inherited his desk and folders. I discovered two different sets of handwriting and two distinctly different sets of writing styles by the same author. One had no clue the other was surprisingly accurate and insightful. It made me wonder if there were two people employed at different jobs and they switched places every few days.
  • Herwig 2013-08-01 07:36
    Sunil Sdlavrot:
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...

    n0ma'am
  • DonaldK 2013-08-01 07:38
    ochrist:
    But did they hire him?


    ^
    |
    -------- What ochrist asked
  • snoofle 2013-08-01 07:50
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2013-08-01 07:59
    Shock! Horror! Recruiters lie!

    How about a story or two showing how companies lie and do a bait and switch? That's far more common to me. Oh yes this is an analyst job. Oh hey no you're really doing SQL. Yes this is the IT department of a single company... surprise, we just now broke off into a consulting company but we still pretend we're IT for the company, but now you may have to do work for other companies too because we think our way is unique and can be adapted for others.
  • lucidfox 2013-08-01 08:04
    Sunil Sdlavrot:
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...

    Was about to say that. Hivemind :)
  • Doppleganger 2013-08-01 08:09
    snoofle:
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    Ayup, this is more common than many realize. Had a discussion at work about this a few months ago. I have to admit, when I was a manager, we rarely used recruiting agencies, but finding they'd have one person do the telephone screen and send a different one to the F2F or even to the actual job once hired shocked the hell out of me. (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)
  • d 2013-08-01 08:10
    lucidfox:
    Sunil Sdlavrot:
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...

    Was about to say that. Hivemind :)


    That's because you all think alike
  • lucidfox 2013-08-01 08:12
    "You" who?
  • ZoomST 2013-08-01 08:13
    d:
    lucidfox:
    Sunil Sdlavrot:
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...
    Was about to say that. Hivemind :)
    That's because you stupid %GENDER% people all think alike
    FTFY
  • Craig 2013-08-01 08:16
    I've seen this myself when recruiting staff. Two near-identical applications listing near-identical experience with near-identical personal statements and near-identical addresses. I considered the possible scenarios in which they could have come in: Agency fraud, two friends copying from one anothers' applications, one applicant trying to take a double-dip at recruitment etc.

    In the end I decided that there was no scenario in which I'd want to follow-up these applications to interview. I filed them both into my "Reject" pile, along with the applications from people who were clearly not developers.

    In that case, whatever had happened to lead to those two applications cost that person/those people any reasonable consideration for the job.
  • Medinoc 2013-08-01 09:01
    Doppleganger:
    snoofle:
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    Ayup, this is more common than many realize. Had a discussion at work about this a few months ago. I have to admit, when I was a manager, we rarely used recruiting agencies, but finding they'd have one person do the telephone screen and send a different one to the F2F or even to the actual job once hired shocked the hell out of me. (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)

    Sounds a lot like The Shoe-In.
  • Keyboard Goop 2013-08-01 09:22
    snoofle:
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    No, of course not. Fraud is the only procedure recruiters use.
  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL 2013-08-01 09:31
    Doppleganger:
    (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)
    This is why conslutting agencies have such a hard-on for wanting your resume "in Word format". It's so they can tinker with it. Some just want to slap their own branding on top of it, but some want to, shall we say, "zoom and enhance" it.

    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.

    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"
  • MightyM 2013-08-01 09:43
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:


    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"


    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.
  • Charles D. 2013-08-01 09:52
    MightyM:
    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.


    To the contrary; they only started following their own (bought and paid for) "standard" much more recently than that.
  • snoofle 2013-08-01 09:52
    Medinoc:
    Doppleganger:
    snoofle:
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    Ayup, this is more common than many realize. Had a discussion at work about this a few months ago. I have to admit, when I was a manager, we rarely used recruiting agencies, but finding they'd have one person do the telephone screen and send a different one to the F2F or even to the actual job once hired shocked the hell out of me. (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)

    Sounds a lot like The Shoe-In.
    The last line of the linked article referred to the candidate as "a complete loser". I find it fascinating that interviewers assume that the candidate is a loser simply because there is a huge difference in their actual experience and either a headhunter-rewritten-pack-of-lies or incorrect job description.

    Just because someone's experience is different from what you need doesn't make them a loser.

    It's not the candidate people!
  • Bob 2013-08-01 09:57
    Doppleganger:
    snoofle:
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    Ayup, this is more common than many realize. Had a discussion at work about this a few months ago. I have to admit, when I was a manager, we rarely used recruiting agencies, but finding they'd have one person do the telephone screen and send a different one to the F2F or even to the actual job once hired shocked the hell out of me. (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)


    I had to do this at a couple of interviews when I was first starting out. Recruitment agencies would hack and slash my CV to fit the job and then hack and slash the job ad to make me feel confident about going to interview. Presumably they got paid per candidate rather than for filling the role.
  • operagost 2013-08-01 10:04
    Cujo:
    Previous to my employment there, the place I'm currently working hired someone who was Chinese, though it probably could be any race that "all look the same to us stupid Americans". The interview and technical questions at the in person interview went amazingly well. A few weeks later the new candidate shows up and is completely clueless.
    I've never found out if this guy had a twin brother but I inherited his desk and folders. I discovered two different sets of handwriting and two distinctly different sets of writing styles by the same author. One had no clue the other was surprisingly accurate and insightful. It made me wonder if there were two people employed at different jobs and they switched places every few days.

    MPD.
  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL 2013-08-01 10:05
    MightyM:
    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.
    Word has been around since... 1983? (That long, really?) 2007 is four years ago. So 4/30 is what... 13%? I call that 'experimental error'. And they basically had to be shamed into making that change.

    I blame it all on that commie tabs bar thingy.
  • gramie 2013-08-01 10:16
    I worked with a Chinese woman whose husband was a professor at our local university. She had a Computer Science degree from this university, but on the job she was shockingly incapable. Aside from almost nonexistent programming and computer skills, her spoken and written English were dismal, and I concluded that her husband must have done most (if not all) of the work for her degree. I can't figure out how she passed the exams.
  • vulputate 2013-08-01 10:25
    Right or wrong, this is simply how recruitment was done back then.
  • Tim 2013-08-01 10:26
    2007-2013>4 years

    Try 6 years.
  • John Jiang 2013-08-01 10:29
    I'm John Jiang and so is my wife.
  • Chose Binouche 2013-08-01 10:35

    13%? I call that 'experimental error'

    You are a lousy scientist.
  • ZoomST 2013-08-01 10:58
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    This is why conslutting agencies have such a hard-on [...]
    ^this +1
    MightyM:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"
    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.
    ...that doesn't mean the conslutting agencies switched to MS-Word 2007. You could be amazed to find some are still using MS-Word 98 happily, destroying your carefully formatted doc.
    I usually submit in PDF, then when some agent asks for a MS-Word formatted doc, I use a fancy export function that some suites have -- given that "export" function may or may not work well.
  • ceiswyn 2013-08-01 11:08
    Chose Binouche:

    13%? I call that 'experimental error'

    You are a lousy scientist.


    Probably an astronomer. Anything within an order of magnitude is close enough :)
  • ICH 2013-08-01 11:15
    Doppleganger:


    Ayup, this is more common than many realize. Had a discussion at work about this a few months ago. I have to admit, when I was a manager, we rarely used recruiting agencies, but finding they'd have one person do the telephone screen and send a different one to the F2F or even to the actual job once hired shocked the hell out of me. (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)


    This happened to me. I was attending an interview and the interviewer obviously expected me to have considerable experience with software I had never used. When I told the interviewer this he was surprised, as the CV he had for me showed 5 years experience. I gave him a copy of my CV and we compared them. There were several additions to make it look as if I was a good fit for a job I had no hope of performing well in. We ended the interview on good terms, agreeing that neither of us would use the agency again.
  • Nexzus 2013-08-01 11:48
    gramie:
    I worked with a Chinese woman whose husband was a professor at our local university. She had a Computer Science degree from this university, but on the job she was shockingly incapable. Aside from almost nonexistent programming and computer skills, her spoken and written English were dismal, and I concluded that her husband must have done most (if not all) of the work for her degree. I can't figure out how she passed the exams.


    *Precursor: I live in Vancouver

    When I was in school, exam proctors were allowed to check for ID if there was any case of possible fraudulent identity. The fact that it was a policy made me think if it was ever a real big problem at some point.

    With a name something like 'Xiang Chan' and a bad photo on ID showing an Asian with glasses and short-cropped black hair, I can see how your anecdote could have come to fruition.

    Shit, I remember they had to gender test some Chinese Olympic gymnasts.

    /Yes, I'm an admitted racist. You try spending time around these people. I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country, and my family's been here for 20 generations.
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-01 11:49
    ZoomST:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    This is why conslutting agencies have such a hard-on [...]
    ^this +1
    MightyM:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"
    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.
    ...that doesn't mean the conslutting agencies switched to MS-Word 2007. You could be amazed to find some are still using MS-Word 98 happily, destroying your carefully formatted doc.
    I usually submit in PDF, then when some agent asks for a MS-Word formatted doc, I use a fancy export function that some suites have -- given that "export" function may or may not work well.


    Mine's written in LaTeX. Then I print it out in pdf format. If I'm asked to produce a version written in Word, I say, "No." There is an adequate number of recruitment agencies which accept this.
  • DrPepper 2013-08-01 12:03
    Well, what do you expect? These people make money when the candidate gets hired, period. Their only interest is in getting that person placed; they don't care about the needs of the candidate or the needs of the company.

    Chances are that the candidate will never use that agency again in any case. Odds are, with the number of agencies out there, that the agency will never do business with the company again. And, I'm guessing that the actual agent moves around from place to place every six months.

    All that comes down to -- the agent is perfectly willing to commit fraud, screw over the candidate and the company, because it just doesn't matter to him.

    Contrast that to where I work now -- I'm a full time employee of the consulting firm; and the reputation of the company is built on the quality of the consultants that work for the firm. When we send a consultant out on an interview, the company and the consultant are already certain that consultant has all the skills required for the job.
  • Paul Neumann 2013-08-01 12:17
    operagost:
    MPD.
    Which MPD?

    My favorite is Mouse Phenome Database. Are you suggesting that the applicant is a genetically modified super rodent?
  • Klimax 2013-08-01 12:25
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Doppleganger:
    (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)
    This is why conslutting agencies have such a hard-on for wanting your resume "in Word format". It's so they can tinker with it. Some just want to slap their own branding on top of it, but some want to, shall we say, "zoom and enhance" it.

    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.

    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"


    You might want to check who created RTF...
  • hank 2013-08-01 12:49
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.
  • chubertdev 2013-08-01 12:55
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.


    I usually bring five. It's always fun to compare and contrast.
  • eViLegion 2013-08-01 13:10
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver
    ...snip...
    my family's been here for 20 generations.


    Is your family native American, or from European settlers?

    Because the first Europeans set foot in the Vancouver area around 1790, so if you're European, the women in your family will have had to had their children at an average age of 11 or 12 to be able to squeeze 20 generations into the time that has elapsed since then.

    Does your family have a rich tradition of child abuse?
  • Al H. 2013-08-01 13:10
    I once had a similar situation, except the code submitted, and the experience claimed, was *mine*. My HR director asked me for my input on a resume she received and I was able to show her the code in Source Safe. Little Iranian weasel.
  • eViLegion 2013-08-01 13:17
    Al H.:
    I once had a similar situation, except the code submitted, and the experience claimed, was *mine*. My HR director asked me for my input on a resume she received and I was able to show her the code in Source Safe. Little Iranian weasel.


    I'm not sure I understand... how are her stature and nationality (and I suppose, species) relevant?
  • abitmol 2013-08-01 13:22
    1/OOXML is not totally open. It's full of blob. There are even function that are supposed to "act like Word 2007" cause even MS don't understand what MS Word does.
    2/MS doesn't implement the EMACs version of OOXML. So it's still undocumented.
    3/Please try "ooxml iso controversy" in a search engine. You'll understand how it became a "standard".

  • RangerNS 2013-08-01 13:36
    Source Safe


    Hold on a second there. You managed to get something out of Source Safe?
  • DCRoss 2013-08-01 14:23
    Paul Neumann:
    operagost:
    MPD.
    Which MPD?

    Mandatory Pun Day.
  • chubertdev 2013-08-01 14:35
    Multiple Personality Disorder


    Mandatory Pun Day is every Friday
  • Anomaly 2013-08-01 14:41
    chubertdev:
    Multiple Personality Disorder


    Mandatory Pun Day is every Friday


    Its DID - Dissociative Identity Disorder now.
  • xaade 2013-08-01 14:42
    hank:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.


    If you say a worse issue makes previous issues non-existent, then we need to compare to the Africans in Chad.

    You could be living in abject poverty under constant threat of death by the Muslim countries surrounding you.

    So yeah, no need to get in a fuss about civil rights.
  • xaade 2013-08-01 14:44
    Anomaly:
    chubertdev:
    Multiple Personality Disorder


    Mandatory Pun Day is every Friday


    Its DID - Dissociative Identity Disorder now.


    That actually sounds more accurate.

    He doesn't have multiple personalities. He doesn't suddenly become a wine enthusiast, then decide he'll be a bum, and is aware of this at all times.

    It's two identities not aware of each other.
  • J. Strange 2013-08-01 14:45
    You gals must be synced up.
  • chubertdev 2013-08-01 15:56
    xaade:
    That actually sounds more accurate.

    He doesn't have multiple personalities. He doesn't suddenly become a wine enthusiast, then decide he'll be a bum, and is aware of this at all times.

    It's two identities not aware of each other.


    thedailybmp.com?

    (b-movie plot)
  • Vinit 2013-08-01 16:17
    My wife wrote this comment for me...
  • xaade 2013-08-01 16:21
    Vinit:
    My wife wrote this comment for me...


    But then it would say,

    "I am Vinit's wife, and I wrote this comment for Vinit."

    Otherwise you have a recursive paradox.
  • da Doctah 2013-08-01 16:23
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"
    So how often have you had them call you back with "I can't open your document; it's corrupted or something."

    (Haven't checked lately, but last time I tried there was no default application to open an rtf file. Plenty of software will do it if you start from there, but that doesn't help if they save it to desktop and then double-click to look at it.)
  • Heavy Zed 2013-08-01 16:43
    xaade:
    hank:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.


    If you say a worse issue makes previous issues non-existent, then we need to compare to the Africans in Chad.

    You could be living in abject poverty under constant threat of death by the Muslim countries surrounding you.

    So yeah, no need to get in a fuss about civil rights.


    You're missing the point. Someone is claiming that Canada is "their own country" on the basis of their ancestors being there first, which means either:

    They are of native origin, in which case maybe they should be more upset with the descendants of white colonists who took the country from the poster's people in the first place and not the immigrants they have more recently welcomed.

    Or, they're a descendent of said white colonists with a surprising lack of awareness of history or just an inability to empathize with people they see as "different".

    I'll leave it up to you to guess which one is more likely.
  • Hannes 2013-08-01 16:48
    Sunil Sdlavrot:
    Huge discussion about sexism coming up in 3... 2... 1...


    Right or wrong, this... oh, wait. Too late. :(
  • BillR 2013-08-01 17:21
    Weeks and weeks go by and you can't find one single developer?

    The problem is you, RJ, not them.
  • Friedrice The Great 2013-08-01 17:41
    Klimax:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Doppleganger:
    (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)
    This is why conslutting agencies have such a hard-on for wanting your resume "in Word format". It's so they can tinker with it. Some just want to slap their own branding on top of it, but some want to, shall we say, "zoom and enhance" it.

    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.

    Anyhow, being that I have no love for Microsoft crap, and especially all the obscure flavors of .doc files that change with every major release, I submit in .rtf format saved from OS X's TextEdit. It lets them get their fingers in it without me having to use a proprietary binary format for text. "I can't believe it's not rancid butter!"


    You might want to check who created RTF...

    Which one - Rich Text Format (Microsoft) OR Revisable Text Format? (IBM)
  • ParisHilton 2013-08-01 18:32
    All that stuff is a waste of time. Take every candidate out for JD and rails of blow and if the candidate meshes, regardles off the applicants qualifications, the applicant will eventually make a good fit for the job. Just give it time and the applicant lots of blow.

    p.s. I export all my resumes from vi to pps and then perm my hair!
  • Milko 2013-08-01 18:37
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    MightyM:
    Um, MS Office hasn't been using a "proprietary binary format" since 2007.
    Word has been around since... 1983? (That long, really?) 2007 is four years ago. So 4/30 is what... 13%? I call that 'experimental error'. And they basically had to be shamed into making that change.

    I blame it all on that commie tabs bar thingy.
    And there I was thinking I get things about 1/2 a day late because I'm on thewrong side of the globe. Didn't realise we were a couple of years behind
  • huasg 2013-08-01 18:42
    chubertdev:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.


    I usually bring five. It's always fun to compare and contrast.
    Why do you need more than one? To prove they're all the same? I expect the company to have a copy, but bring my own in case they don't (and to make sure the copy they have is untampered). If they want to turn that 1 copy into 3,5,7, or 83 then I'm sure they have a photocopier (?xerox machine?) hanging around somewhere...
  • FWE 2013-08-01 18:43
    eViLegion:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver
    ...snip...
    my family's been here for 20 generations.


    Is your family native American, or from European settlers?

    Because the first Europeans set foot in the Vancouver area around 1790, so if you're European, the women in your family will have had to had their children at an average age of 11 or 12 to be able to squeeze 20 generations into the time that has elapsed since then.

    Does your family have a rich tradition of child abuse?
    What if it was young male ancestors who like the Cougar?
  • chubertdev 2013-08-01 20:31
    huasg:
    chubertdev:
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    Always bring at least three paper copies of the original version of your resume to the interview, if for no reason other than to cover your ass when they ask you about something that got stuffed into the resume without your knowledge.


    I usually bring five. It's always fun to compare and contrast.
    Why do you need more than one? To prove they're all the same? I expect the company to have a copy, but bring my own in case they don't (and to make sure the copy they have is untampered). If they want to turn that 1 copy into 3,5,7, or 83 then I'm sure they have a photocopier (?xerox machine?) hanging around somewhere...


    For the position I'm currently in, I was interviewed by five people. Most of them took notes on the copy that I handed them. It's very thoughtful to give each interviewer their own, fresh copy of your resume.
  • Norman Diamond 2013-08-01 21:09
    ceiswyn:
    Chose Binouche:

    13%? I call that 'experimental error'
    You are a lousy scientist.
    Probably an a̶s̶t̶r̶o̶n̶o̶m̶e̶r̶ programmer. Anything within an order of magnitude is close enough :)
    FTFY.
  • Norman Diamond 2013-08-01 21:14
    Nexzus:
    gramie:
    I can't figure out how she passed the exams.
    *Precursor: I live in Vancouver

    When I was in school, exam proctors were allowed to check for ID if there was any case of possible fraudulent identity. The fact that it was a policy made me think if it was ever a real big problem at some point.
    When I was a proctor, sometimes it was required (not just allowed) to check identity.

    For comparison, the US needs voter ID.

    Nexzus:
    /Yes, I'm an admitted racist. You try spending time around these people. I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country, and my family's been here for 20 generations.
    How about the first nations, who're a fucking minority in their own country, because your family invaded and in the space of just 20 generations you've mostly wiped out those who were there for 10,000 generations?
  • Coyne 2013-08-01 21:26
    snoofle:
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    I don't think I'd blackball them for this; at least not at first. My first sally would be, "Well, since you sent as a know-nothing hoping to sneak a big fee, how about you pay us for the time we wasted interviewing her?"
  • Just some guy 2013-08-01 23:24
    Why does being somewhere for 20 Generations entitle YOU to anything? The world changes get used to it.
  • Seahen 2013-08-02 01:26
    I guess they're the ones to go to if you don't like your affirmative-action regs.
  • da Doctah 2013-08-02 03:12
    ParisHilton:
    I export all my resumes from vi to pps and then perm my hair!
    Yes, but can you bring home the bacon *and* fry it up in a pan?
  • QJo 2013-08-02 03:23
    Heavy Zed:
    xaade:
    hank:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.


    If you say a worse issue makes previous issues non-existent, then we need to compare to the Africans in Chad.

    You could be living in abject poverty under constant threat of death by the Muslim countries surrounding you.

    So yeah, no need to get in a fuss about civil rights.


    You're missing the point. Someone is claiming that Canada is "their own country" on the basis of their ancestors being there first, which means either:

    They are of native origin, in which case maybe they should be more upset with the descendants of white colonists who took the country from the poster's people in the first place and not the immigrants they have more recently welcomed.

    Or, they're a descendent of said white colonists with a surprising lack of awareness of history or just an inability to empathize with people they see as "different".

    I'll leave it up to you to guess which one is more likely.


    If you live in a place, that's your place. Just because someone has been in that place for longer than you should not mean that person has privileges over you. And it most certainly does not mean that a person who has lived longer in a place is better than a person who has not lived there for as long.

    Goes both ways, of course. When you move into a place, it's good manners to adopt the customs, laws and language(s) of the place you moved into (at least in public). After all, presumably you move to a place because you *like* that place (customs, laws and language(s) all).

    The real WTF is restricting access to a place based on where a person was born. *This* person can come here because he/she was born in *that* place, but *that* person *can't* come here because he/she was born in *that other* place.
  • Spencer 2013-08-02 03:23
    xaade:

    He doesn't have multiple personalities. He doesn't suddenly become a wine enthusiast, then decide he'll be a bum, and is aware of this at all times.


    Wine enthusiasts and bums aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, some wine enthusiasts even become bums
  • tin 2013-08-02 03:53
    Coyne:
    My first sally would be, "Well, since you sent as a know-nothing hoping to sneak a big fee, how about you pay us for the time we wasted interviewing her?"


    We've sent invoices out at work for stuff like that before (we never actually expect a payment). Most are ignored as we expect, but sometimes the offending supplier will call and ask what it's about... These usually turn into payments when you explain that it cost a few hundreds dollars in staff time, or in some cases, had to supply extra products or discounts to keep a customer happy after a huge delay.
  • dkf 2013-08-02 04:52
    Norman Diamond:
    How about the first nations, who're a fucking minority in their own country, because your family invaded and in the space of just 20 generations you've mostly wiped out those who were there for 10,000 generations?
    If we use the usual definition of “generation” (around 25 years) then you're talking about a quarter of a million years then. I think there's good evidence that people haven't been in the Americas nearly that long, whoever they are. (There's a matter of academic debate as to when homo sapiens sapiens first arose and where, but there's absolutely no evidence at all for anyone in the Americas as far back as 100k years back; it wasn't until quite a bit later that human beings arrived…)
  • CA 2013-08-02 05:23
    Nexzus:

    /Yes, I'm an admitted racist. You try spending time around these people. I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country, and my family's been here for 20 generations.


    20 generations you say? Quite interesting my little racist friend. Quoting from Wikipedia:
    "The original settlement, named Gastown, grew around the Hastings Mill logging sawmill and a nearby tavern, both established in 1867. Enlarging to become the townsite of Granville, with the announcement that the railhead would reach the site it was renamed "Vancouver" and incorporated as a city in 1886."

    So Vancouver has been a city for around 130 years. That is much, much less than 20 generations. There are Chinese in Vancouver whose families have been there almost as long as yours, which I assume has been there for no more than 3-4 generations. Actually, YOU are the immigrant that went and took over land that belonged to others.

    I am now racist against you, you don't deserve to live in Vancouver, please leave, go back to France or the UK or whatever European country you came from.
  • Herr Otto Flick 2013-08-02 05:44
    Heavy Zed:

    You're missing the point. Someone is claiming that Canada is "their own country" on the basis of their ancestors being there first, which means either:

    They are of native origin, in which case maybe they should be more upset with the descendants of white colonists who took the country from the poster's people in the first place and not the immigrants they have more recently welcomed.

    Or, they're a descendent of said white colonists with a surprising lack of awareness of history or just an inability to empathize with people they see as "different".

    I'll leave it up to you to guess which one is more likely.


    "Native origin", definitely not Asiatics crossing the Bering land bridge 10,000 years ago. The only native inhabitants of America are rodents (slight exaggeration).
  • QJo 2013-08-02 06:37
    CA:
    Nexzus:

    /Yes, I'm an admitted racist. You try spending time around these people. I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country, and my family's been here for 20 generations.


    20 generations you say? Quite interesting my little racist friend. Quoting from Wikipedia:
    "The original settlement, named Gastown, grew around the Hastings Mill logging sawmill and a nearby tavern, both established in 1867. Enlarging to become the townsite of Granville, with the announcement that the railhead would reach the site it was renamed "Vancouver" and incorporated as a city in 1886."

    So Vancouver has been a city for around 130 years. That is much, much less than 20 generations. There are Chinese in Vancouver whose families have been there almost as long as yours, which I assume has been there for no more than 3-4 generations. Actually, YOU are the immigrant that went and took over land that belonged to others.

    I am now racist against you, you don't deserve to live in Vancouver, please leave, go back to France or the UK or whatever European country you came from.


    Oh, puh-*lease*. We don't want him back. Send him to Saudi Arabia, whose inhabitants can teach the world plenty about racism.

    Unless he was somehow trying to say that he's one of the people who dwelt in that area before the Europeans arrived, and now there are more people in that area of Euro ancestry than those of his own ethnic group. Although 20 generations, as has been calculated, equates to something of the order of 500 years, which doesn't quite tally with that hypothesis either.

    Maybe your OP is functionally innumerate, and all numbers over 3 are a confusing lotsness to him. Or her, come to that, although to suggest a female can't count may, right or wrong, be construed as offensive.
  • Hannes 2013-08-02 08:35
    Nexzus:
    /Yes, I'm an admitted racist.


    You know, you could've just said "But then, I'm a frakking moron" and save us all a lot of time.
  • Nobody 2013-08-02 09:09
    Heavy Zed:


    You're missing the point. Someone is claiming that Canada is "their own country" on the basis of their ancestors being there first, which means either:

    They are of native origin, in which case maybe they should be more upset with the descendants of white colonists who took the country from the poster's people in the first place and not the immigrants they have more recently welcomed.

    Or, they're a descendent of said white colonists with a surprising lack of awareness of history or just an inability to empathize with people they see as "different".

    I'll leave it up to you to guess which one is more likely.


    because your world view, which includes belief in inherited guilt, is the only possible world view.
  • Paul Neumann 2013-08-02 10:22
    QJo:
    If you live in a place, that's your place. Just because someone has been in that place for longer than you should not mean that person has privileges over you. And it most certainly does not mean that a person who has lived longer in a place is better than a person who has not lived there for as long.
    So, you're saying that if, when I go home tonight, someone who did not live there this morning is sitting on my couch watching my TV and eating my cream cheese Danishes than it's okay because I have no more or less privileges where I live than that person?
  • Paul Neumann 2013-08-02 10:29
    dkf:
    the usual definition of “generation” (around 25 years)
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years. It doesn't even have to be valid going back "a quarter of a million years," I posit that a 25 year generation span would be a significant overshoot over even a 500 year period, much less 5,000 years.
  • Hannes 2013-08-02 11:06
    Paul Neumann:
    dkf:
    the usual definition of “generation” (around 25 years)
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years.


    "In developed nations the average familial generation length is in the high 20s and has even reached 30 years in some nations"

    Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#Familial_generation

    Also, see source links on wiki page.

    You're welcome.
  • Al H. 2013-08-02 11:11
    The little Iranian weasel was prone to brag about being Iranian with each and every breath. Nice one on the species though :).
  • John Jiang 2013-08-02 11:59
    John Jiang Jingleheimer Schmidt,
    His name is my name, too.
    Whenever we go out,
    The people always shout,
    "There goes John Jiang Jingleheimer two!"
    Da da da da da da da da
  • Birdman3131 2013-08-02 12:39
    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/protect-a-document-from-unauthorized-changes-HP001044674.aspx#_Toc280362682 give them a passworded word doc.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 12:55
    eViLegion:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver
    ...snip...
    my family's been here for 20 generations.


    Is your family native American, or from European settlers?

    Because the first Europeans set foot in the Vancouver area around 1790, so if you're European, the women in your family will have had to had their children at an average age of 11 or 12 to be able to squeeze 20 generations into the time that has elapsed since then.

    Does your family have a rich tradition of child abuse?


    In fairness, he didn't say that his family has been in VANCOUVER for 20 generations. The relevant in which he made the comment about generations was, "I'm a f---- minority in my own country, and my family's been here for 20 generations." I think the plain reading is that his family has been in Canada for 20 generations, not necessarily specifically in Vancouver.

    I don't know when the poster's ancestors arrived here or where they came from, but there were European settlers in Canada the 1500s, so it's not implausible.

    Of course all of this is assuming that he meant the number literally and not as a poetic exaggeration. Life if someone says, "Man, this program takes a MILLION YEARS to run", I don't suppose that that time is literal.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:14
    Norman Diamond:
    How about the first nations, who're a fucking minority in their own country, because your family invaded and in the space of just 20 generations you've mostly wiped out those who were there for 10,000 generations?


    This is a highly racist idea. To say that the "white people" invaded and kicked out the "native Americans", and that the "native Americans" rightly owned the place because they were here first, only makes sense if you take it for granted that the only thing that matters about a person is the color of his skin.

    I was born in New York State. When the British came to New York, they ultimately forced out the previous inhabitants, the Iroquois Indians.

    But the Iroquois certainly had NOT been there for 10,000 generations or anything remotely approaching that. They conquered the land from the Algonquins. I frankly don't know when the Algonquins arrived or who they supplanted, but the Hopewell were there before them, maybe others in between.

    To say that the Iroquois have some sacred right to the land just because they have the same color skin as people who were there before them, but that white people have no right to the land because they have a different color skin, is to see the world in totally racist terms. I sincerely doubt that as the Iroquois were killing the Algonquins, that the Algonquins said to themselves, "It would be really terrible if we were killed by white people, but as the people killing us are fellow native Americans, why then it's ok. Whether we win or lose, in the end the land will still be owned by native Americans, and that's what really matters."

    It is difficult to see why the fact that the Iroquois drove out the Algonquins gives them a sacred, unalienable right to own the land for all time to come, while the fact that white people drove out the Iroquois means that white people can never be said to be truly "native" no matter how many generations they live there.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:23
    huasg:
    Why do you need more than one [resume]? To prove they're all the same?


    Now that you mention it, that's a cool idea. I think the next time I go on a job interview, I'm going to bring along five resumes, all radically different, and give one to each person who interviews me. Then let the company get all confused when they talk about the applicants and one says, "Yes, this fellow has a lot of C# experience, I think we really need that," and then another says, "What? I didn't see anything on his resume about C#", etc.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:25
    xaade:
    Vinit:
    My wife wrote this comment for me...


    But then it would say,

    "I am Vinit's wife, and I wrote this comment for Vinit."

    Otherwise you have a recursive paradox.


    "I'm sorry, Billy won't be able to come to school today. He's very sick. I'm taking him to the doctor. This is my mother speaking."
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:30
    hank:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.


    I don't live in poverty, but sometimes I get the feeling that my nation has been conquered by imperialist foreigners. Our government and our media regularly tell us that the great threats to our nation are immigrants, religious zealots, and gun owners. Which I find strange, as this country was founded by a group of immigrant religious zealots with guns.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:32
    snoofle:
    Just because someone's experience is different from what you need doesn't make them a loser.


    Maybe not, but if someone says he wants to work here, that must mean that he was unable to get a job with a real company. He's a loser.
  • Jay 2013-08-02 13:40
    DrPepper:
    Well, what do you expect? These people make money when the candidate gets hired, period. Their only interest is in getting that person placed; they don't care about the needs of the candidate or the needs of the company.

    Chances are that the candidate will never use that agency again in any case. Odds are, with the number of agencies out there, that the agency will never do business with the company again. And, I'm guessing that the actual agent moves around from place to place every six months.

    All that comes down to -- the agent is perfectly willing to commit fraud, screw over the candidate and the company, because it just doesn't matter to him.

    Contrast that to where I work now -- I'm a full time employee of the consulting firm; and the reputation of the company is built on the quality of the consultants that work for the firm. When we send a consultant out on an interview, the company and the consultant are already certain that consultant has all the skills required for the job.


    Actually, this is where the whole business confuses me.

    It's true that an agency is unlikely to do business with the same employee again. I've only once gone back to an employment agency that I had used before, and that was many years and several jobs later.

    Still, if they do a particularly good or particularly bad job for you, you're likely to tell your friends. Just because a company rarely does repeat business with the same person doesn't mean they don't have to worry about reputation.

    But on the other side, I've known employers who routinely use the same agency. I think most companies are hiring new people pretty regularly -- even if they're not growing, there are always people quitting who need to be replaced. You'd think the agency would have a big incentive to keep the employer-client happy.

    But curiously, I do regularly seem them fake out resumes. They DON'T seem to care that much about maintaining a good reputation.

    Maybe we're all exaggerating the problem. Maybe we just remember a relatively small number of times that agencies have played games with employers, and not all the times that they've done a good job. I don't have any statistics. But even if that was true, it would be double reason why agencies SHOULD have to be squeaky clean.
  • Anomaly 2013-08-02 14:13
    Jay:
    hank:
    Nexzus:
    I live in Vancouver ... I'm a fuckin' minority in my own country.
    Oh, so you're living in abject poverty on a desolate reserve set aside for you by a conquering, imperialist nation? Well, I guess your rage is at least understandable then, even if somewhat misguided.


    I don't live in poverty, but sometimes I get the feeling that my nation has been conquered by imperialist foreigners. Our government and our media regularly tell us that the great threats to our nation are immigrants, religious zealots, and gun owners. Which I find strange, as this country was founded by a group of immigrant religious zealots with guns.


    Which is precisely why they are dangerous. They conquered this nation once they can conquer this nation again.
  • Paul Neumann 2013-08-02 18:21
    Hannes:
    Paul Neumann:
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years. It doesn't even have to be valid going back "a quarter of a million years," I posit that a 25 year generation span would be a significant overshoot [b]over even a 500 year period[b], much less 5,000 years.

    Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#Familial_generation
    Now if you could just learn to comprehend what you read...
  • urza9814 2013-08-02 19:07
    Norman Diamond:
    Nexzus:
    gramie:
    I can't figure out how she passed the exams.
    *Precursor: I live in Vancouver

    When I was in school, exam proctors were allowed to check for ID if there was any case of possible fraudulent identity. The fact that it was a policy made me think if it was ever a real big problem at some point.
    When I was a proctor, sometimes it was required (not just allowed) to check identity.

    For comparison, the US needs voter ID.


    Not entirely. Some states require this, but plenty don't. I don't think I've ever had to show any ID at all to vote...
  • urza9814 2013-08-02 19:15
    Hannes:
    Paul Neumann:
    dkf:
    the usual definition of “generation” (around 25 years)
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years.


    "In developed nations the average familial generation length is in the high 20s and has even reached 30 years in some nations"

    Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#Familial_generation

    Also, see source links on wiki page.

    You're welcome.


    ..and you think numbers that are valid for modern, developed nations are still valid for a hundred years ago? five hundred? TEN THOUSAND???

    It wasn't all that long ago that people would get married as young as 13; I highly doubt they were waiting until 25 to have kids.
  • chubertdev 2013-08-02 20:00
    urza9814:
    Not entirely. Some states require this, but plenty don't. I don't think I've ever had to show any ID at all to vote...


    Bingo. Dems are fighting hard against ID laws, since they "champion" for the poor, who often don't have an ID.
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-03 06:41
    Paul Neumann:
    QJo:
    If you live in a place, that's your place. Just because someone has been in that place for longer than you should not mean that person has privileges over you. And it most certainly does not mean that a person who has lived longer in a place is better than a person who has not lived there for as long.
    So, you're saying that if, when I go home tonight, someone who did not live there this morning is sitting on my couch watching my TV and eating my cream cheese Danishes than it's okay because I have no more or less privileges where I live than that person?


    Here, have a cigarette. Want a light? There you go. Oops, I've set fire to your head. Oh dear, you seem to have completely burned up, with a godawful amount of smoke. Why didn't you *tell* me you were made of straw?
  • Matt Westwood 2013-08-03 06:56
    urza9814:
    Norman Diamond:
    Nexzus:
    gramie:
    I can't figure out how she passed the exams.
    *Precursor: I live in Vancouver

    When I was in school, exam proctors were allowed to check for ID if there was any case of possible fraudulent identity. The fact that it was a policy made me think if it was ever a real big problem at some point.
    When I was a proctor, sometimes it was required (not just allowed) to check identity.

    For comparison, the US needs voter ID.


    Not entirely. Some states require this, but plenty don't. I don't think I've ever had to show any ID at all to vote...


    Where I live, they post you a little card with the details of where you are invited to go to vote. You turn up at the location. You hand your card to the person at the desk. They note you have arrived and neatly cross your name off the list of the people they are expecting. They give you a piece of paper with a number on it. You then go into the booth and make a mark on that piece of paper. You fold it over twice and pass it through the slot at the top of a big box.

    At the end of the day, the boxes are opened and the marks that people have made on the pieces of paper are examined, and those pieces of paper are sorted into categories appopriately. Then they count up the number of pieces of paper in each category and the category with the highest number of pieces of paper in it wins.

    I asked once what was the purpose of the numbers on the paper. I was told by the officiating person that they were so they could correlate the number with the voter, and work out what they had voted. Thus if any voter wrote something on the piece of paper that the authorities did not like, they could pay that person a visit and give them a strict talking to, or in extreme cases, deprive them of their liberty. I protested about that, and declared that this was therefore not a secret ballot. She agreed, and told me that it was not supposed to be, and that the authorities had the right to demand to know exactly what each person had voted, in order to be able to take appropriate action against people who voted contrary to the way in which they would have preferred. At that point I ripped up the piece of paper and threw the pieces up into the air, thereby risking having action taken against me for littering.

    It was not until several years later that I learned that I had been given incorrect information by that official. In fact, the numbers are on the pieces of paper in order that there be a safeguard against ballot fraud.
  • Hannes 2013-08-03 07:23
    Paul Neumann:
    Hannes:
    Paul Neumann:
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years. It doesn't even have to be valid going back "a quarter of a million years," I posit that a 25 year generation span would be a significant overshoot [b]over even a 500 year period[b], much less 5,000 years.

    Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#Familial_generation
    Now if you could just learn to comprehend what you read...


    I will do that as soon as you learn how to user BBCode properly.

    Anyway: I highly doubt that you will find any valid sources for "500 years ago", since no one bothered to do statistics back then. So, we have to go with what we have now, right?
    And if you had actually bothered to "read and comprehend" the link I gave you, you could've found this: "Conversely, generation length has changed little and remains in the low 20s in less developed nations."
    And by "changed little" they mean "changed little from the late 18th century".

    urza9814:
    Hannes:
    Paul Neumann:
    dkf:
    the usual definition of “generation” (around 25 years)
    Please, oh please give me a source that pins an average generation span at or around 25 years.


    "In developed nations the average familial generation length is in the high 20s and has even reached 30 years in some nations"

    Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation#Familial_generation

    Also, see source links on wiki page.

    You're welcome.


    ..and you think numbers that are valid for modern, developed nations are still valid for a hundred years ago? five hundred? TEN THOUSAND???


    See above. Where do we get a reliable source for "a generation" from ten thousand years ago?

    It wasn't all that long ago that people would get married as young as 13; I highly doubt they were waiting until 25 to have kids.


    Again, if you had actually bothered to read the link, you could've found this: "Conversely, generation length has changed little and remains in the low 20s in less developed nations."
  • Captain Oblivious 2013-08-03 19:02
    Hannes:

    Anyway: I highly doubt that you will find any valid sources for "500 years ago", since no one bothered to do statistics back then.


    Yeah, because the Romans weren't taking censuses since at least 475BCE, for taxation purposes.

    And of course the French and British weren't doing it 500 years ago. Or the Germans. Or the Chinese or Indians, for that matter.
  • Anonymous Coward 2013-08-04 00:04
    Your punctuation suggests you're not American...
  • Norman Diamond 2013-08-04 23:55
    Jay:
    Norman Diamond:
    How about the first nations, who're a fucking minority in their own country, because your family invaded and in the space of just 20 generations you've mostly wiped out those who were there for 10,000 generations?
    This is a highly racist idea. To say that the "white people" invaded and kicked out the "native Americans", and that the "native Americans" rightly owned the place because they were here first, only makes sense if you take it for granted that the only thing that matters about a person is the color of his skin.
    I didn't say anything about colour. Maybe I had a hidden agenda concerning the languages the tribes spoke, or what species of skins they wore, but I didn't say anything about their own skins.

    Red vs. White is a new year's singing competition. (Japan's flag has the same colours as Canada's.)

    Jay:
    I was born in New York State. When the British came to New York, they ultimately forced out the previous inhabitants, the Iroquois Indians.

    But the Iroquois certainly had NOT been there for 10,000 generations or anything remotely approaching that. They conquered the land from the Algonquins. I frankly don't know when the Algonquins arrived or who they supplanted, but the Hopewell were there before them, maybe others in between.
    So reds racistly murdered reds -- just as whites racistly murdered whites in Europe, yellows racistly murdered yellows in Asia, blacks racistly murdered blacks in Africa, and what colour would you use in identifying the races of the Mid-East?
  • Norman Diamond 2013-08-04 23:56
    Anonymous Coward:
    Your punctuation suggests you're not American...
    Of course not. He said he lives in Vancouver.
  • Hannes 2013-08-05 03:37
    Captain Oblivious:
    Hannes:

    Anyway: I highly doubt that you will find any valid sources for "500 years ago", since no one bothered to do statistics back then.


    Yeah, because the Romans weren't taking censuses since at least 475BCE, for taxation purposes.

    And of course the French and British weren't doing it 500 years ago. Or the Germans. Or the Chinese or Indians, for that matter.


    So, do you have an "official" statistic that we can use? If so, just link to it. If not, maybe you should just shut up.
  • Piskvor 2013-08-05 10:24
    "Oh, it was the photocopier's fault, not mine, nossir, not at all!"
  • Captain Oblivious 2013-08-05 22:02
    Hannes:
    Captain Oblivious:
    Hannes:

    Anyway: I highly doubt that you will find any valid sources for "500 years ago", since no one bothered to do statistics back then.


    Yeah, because the Romans weren't taking censuses since at least 475BCE, for taxation purposes.

    And of course the French and British weren't doing it 500 years ago. Or the Germans. Or the Chinese or Indians, for that matter.


    So, do you have an "official" statistic that we can use? If so, just link to it. If not, maybe you should just shut up.


    Google it.

    And don't blame me because you feel dumb after saying something dumb.
  • AnalogQueen 2013-08-07 12:23
    Great sum up. Another thing that just makes me wince is when multi-cultis demand we not identify a person based on skin color yet at the same time they demand we identify their culture and give them special recognition based only on their skin color!

    Case in point: at a call center I worked at colleague asked me to grab file from "that woman over there" Which woman..? "that one, standing by Dave's desk" who..? "the woman in orange shirt" OOOOohhhh.. the black woman..? I suppose "black woman" was an insult of some kind- don't think the black woman would think so however

    next week "African American Appreciation Day" or some sort

    but of course, we aren't allowed to address them or "notice them" in any sort of way
  • RJ 2013-08-26 00:12
    ochrist:
    But did they hire him?


    Nope; I don't like being dicked around. Found someone better not long after anyway. :-)
  • RJ 2013-08-26 00:22
    Not quite, we found plenty of developers. They were mostly just rubbish at it. Nothing wrong with high standards.
  • Anonymous 2013-08-26 06:30
    Keyboard Goop:
    snoofle:
    article:
    The recruiter drone told RJ this was standard procedure: they got a substantially higher commission for placing a female candidate.
    So fraud is standard procedure? I hope they have blackballed this recruiter/firm!


    No, of course not. Fraud is the only procedure recruiters use.


    Not all recruiters are unethical. Those that do this ruin the reputation for all the professionals in the business.
  • Kent Dorfman 2013-08-29 04:42
    Except that Chinese women do not take their husband's last name when they get married.
  • Ronny 2013-10-14 05:07
    I was working in IT for recruitment company for a while and there are actually good reasons for wanting Word format.

    (1) They use standard tools that extract skills and other information from your resume for insertion into the database.
    (2) They need an editable format so they can remove your contact details when forwarding the resume to their client, so the client doesn't do an end-run and contact the candidate directly. (It's not only recruiters who are occasionally scumbags.)
    (3) They're almost all completely ignorant of the complicated bits of IT and editing text in something other than Word is akin to rocket science for them.

    One of the most frequent requests we would get was to convert from PDF (or some other standard) to Word. PDF being designed as a write-only format, this wouldn't always work well. If pressed, we would print the PDF to an image and OCR it.
  • Mike 2013-10-28 09:10
    While not necessarily lying a did have a recruiter essentially ask for a rewrite and a browse before passing my resume along. That said it was for a different type of project than the first one I applied to through them. Not lying about my abilities but definitely crafting the "interests" section to imply I'm more interested in the types of things they want versus what I had on my stock/resume for the first position.

    Just smart marketing I guess but still. I wish you could be blunt and say "this job is a 90% match to what I want. I'll probably be willing to do it for 2-3 years and then I hope you have something else more interesting for me to do because I like you otherwise as a company." 2-3 years is about average from what I've experienced people just don't stay for 10+ years much anymore I don't know why in the interview process you have to pretend that you will.
  • Anonymous 2013-11-23 09:22
    Kent Dorfman:
    Except that Chinese women do not take their husband's last name when they get married.
    Some do.
  • Cbuttius 2014-01-09 09:45
    Submit the female one first, see if they interview. If they don't but they interview the male one you know there was sexual prejudice.

    I was told about someone with an Asian name who submitted an application for a job and was turned down, then sent in an identical CV with an English name and got called in.

    Instead decided to take up a discrimination claim which was settled. Of course one might offer "hiring" as an alternative to the payment.
  • lenswipe 2014-03-01 00:19
    Doppleganger:
    (Generally the worst I had personally seen was rewritten resumes that outright lied. Hint, it's a bad sign when you ask the candidate about something on their resume and they ask to see the resume that was sent to you.)


    And this is exactly why I always send my CV out as a PDF