The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Wearing a suit to an interview has little to do with how good you look or how formal you can be, it is about showing how much you want the job.

Anyway... When do we get to hear the prostitute joke? That's the only reason I kept reading. Anyone got one?

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

[quote user="veritas"][quote user="Kensey"] cost a ridiculous amount of money for a few square yards of cotton. [/quote]

... Yeah, they cost a lot, but damn they are nice to wear.

quote]

And of course, "cost a lot" is a large part of the point. You're signalling that [a] you're in a position to have a few yards of cloth made into a decoration, for no purpose other than to signify that [a], and [b] that you are willing and able to conform to a silly societal requirement in order to demonstrate that [b]

Remy Porter · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Or (c), you appreciate well made, comfortable clothes that will last and look good on you because you prize a well-dressed appearance.

I know that I'm old fashioned, but I always boggle at people who wear t-shirts outside of their house. If it doesn't have a collar, it's not a shirt- it's an undershirt.

Markp · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Boss:
Anyway... When do we get to hear the prostitute joke? ... Anyone got one?

What did the prostitute say when she walked into a bar?

ANSWER>>Ouch!<<ANSWER

da Doctah · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Whiskey:
As for the copy/paste error, that reminds me of the time I was hired by my graduate professor to mark co-op work term reports. Students had to write a 5-10 page report about the company they were working for and the project they were working on. One student's report in particular seemed awfully familiar. I had worked at the same company in the past, on the same product lines, and had previously read both the internal documentation and the press releases. I started Googling phrases and marking down which paragraphs were copy/pasted... it turned out to be about 80% of the document.

To give the kid the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was the one who had written the press releases in the first place.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

da Doctah:
To give the kid the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was the one who had written the press releases in the first place.

Good thought, but no, I had read these documents back when I worked at the company in 2001, and I was re-reading them in his report written in 2004.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

[a] you're in a position to have a few yards of cloth made into a decoration, for no purpose other than to signify that [a], and [b] that you are willing and able to conform to a silly societal requirement in order to demonstrate that [b]

First rule of tautology club...

Pretty much, you are prostituting yourself in a job interview. You're demonstrating, to the best of your abilities, that you're willing to be f*cked in the a$$ regularly in order to recieve money...

...or is that just where I work

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Jamie:
Agreed, I love wearing suits.
At work I wear casual clothes, however, every now and then I decided to be a bit eccentric and come in wearing a suit - purely because it's comfort and looks good.

One of my summer jobs in university was being a leader at their computer day camp. One of the kids, an 11-year-old, wore a little suit and tie. Every day. With sandals. And he knew more about Linux than I did at the time.

I sometimes wonder where he ended up. I bet anything he's making more money than I am now. :P

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Markp:
Dank:
he detailed two of the junior programmers to ask me some questions about Java. I knew most, but got stumped on some (like why you need to extend an interface in an abstract class declaration instead of implement).

Easy to get stumped on that one, since it's simply not true.

You're right, what I meant was that when declaring a generic that must implement an interface, the keyword is extends an not implements. For example, when making a heap of Comparables, you need

class Heap<T extends Comparable<T>

instead of

class Heap<T implements Comparable<T>

As for the reason, I've since forgotten it.

frits · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Kensey:
veritas:
Kensey:
cost a ridiculous amount of money for a few square yards of cotton.

That last bit is your problem. Few people complain about wearing a suit if they have a properly tailored silk suit on. Yeah, they cost a lot, but damn they are nice to wear.

Suit up!

But if I'm going to rock the silk suit, I need the black tie, gold watch, diamond ring, cufflinks, stickpin, topcoat, top hat, black shades, and white gloves to be a sharp-dressed man. Not to mention, I imagine a silk suit fares poorly in a typical IT environment.

Don't forget the monocle.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Boss:
Wearing a suit to an interview has little to do with how good you look or how formal you can be, it is about showing how much you want the job.
Anyway... When do we get to hear the prostitute joke? That's the only reason I kept reading. Anyone got one?

What's the difference between a Ferrari and a dead hooker?

I don't have a Ferrari in my garage.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Jamie:
veritas:
Kensey:
cost a ridiculous amount of money for a few square yards of cotton.

That last bit is your problem. Few people complain about wearing a suit if they have a properly tailored silk suit on. Yeah, they cost a lot, but damn they are nice to wear.

Suit up!

Agreed, I love wearing suits.

At work I wear casual clothes, however, every now and then I decided to be a bit eccentric and come in wearing a suit - purely because it's comfort and looks good.

This probably doesn't look great from your manager's perspective.

Wearing a suit out of the blue usually makes people think you're interviewing elsewhere.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Jamie:
Agreed, I love wearing suits.
At work I wear casual clothes, however, every now and then I decided to be a bit eccentric and come in wearing a suit - purely because it's comfort and looks good.

At my current employer, wearing a suit is a fun way to mess with your co-workers because here there are only two reasons non-execs wear a suit to work:

they are leaving early to go to a funeral or
they are leaving early to go to an interview Once you've made it clear that you are not going to a funeral they start worrying about how the heck they are going to replace you.

Of course this only works if you are in an area where number of job applicants is much less than the number of job openings - because if the reverse is true the joke will be on you.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Did you hear about the dyslexic prostitute who went for a job interview at a warehouse?

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

dubbreak:
$deity YES. Greasy ponytail, jeans and a hooded sweatshirt are not acceptable. Breath like a dragon, while intimidating, will not help secure a job.
We just had an applicant that appeared as though he just rolled out of bed. The rest of the interview was a formality and was kept as short as possible. Our standards aren't high, but we expect you to shower before an interview and maintain at least a remedial level of personal hygiene.

You know I really think the suit is a bit of a red herring here. It of course varies from place to place (and from job to job), but I would normally not wear a suit to an interview. I would however wear my nicer clothes and make sure my teeth are brushed etc. Like what I would think any reasonable person does, even the ones on here who don't wear suits.

The thing is, when you don't at least make an effort to make yourself presentable, it signals to the interviewer that you don't want the job. And that you will show up for work looking (and smelling? eww) like that every day. I know I'd kick you out of my office soon as you could say "deodorant".

(disclaimer: I've only ever been to 4 job interviews and only ever been turned down once, when I was 16, so YMMV)

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Ziplodocus:
Did you hear about the dyslexic prostitute who went for a job interview at a warehouse?

She must be German, since "warehouse" is an anagram for "wore-haus(e)".

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Swedish tard:
I've never worn a suit to an interview. (I ever only wear suits to funerals.) I have never quite seen the impact a suit would have on my work as a programmer, and hoestly would rather not work at a place where cloth is seen as a vital component to programming.

I guess it's a question of what you consider a deal-breaker. If a company offered me a job that was doing something I loved, paid good money, etc etc, but I would have to wear a suit to work every day, I can't imagine that I would turn it down because of that. Sure, it's difficult to see how wearing a suit would make me a better programmer, but if that's the standard there, so what? So when I go on an interview ... well, I don't actually wear a suit anymore, but I at least wear a sport coat and a tie. No point sabotaguing myself. If for you being required to wear a suit would just be unacceptable, and you would not take such a job no matter what other advantages it offerred, then sure, don't wear a suit to the interview and you can avoid wrong impressions.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

I once bought a new suit, and so the next day I wore it to work because, hey, I just bought it, might as well wear it at least once or twice. My boss took me aside and quietly asked me if I was going on a job interview.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

wear a suit around town during your normal errands for a couple days and see how differently people treat you.

ContraCorners · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Ziplodocus:

[a] you're in a position to have a few yards of cloth made into a decoration, for no purpose other than to signify that [a], and [b] that you are willing and able to conform to a silly societal requirement in order to demonstrate that [b]

First rule of tautology club...

Pretty much, you are prostituting yourself in a job interview. You're demonstrating, to the best of your abilities, that you're willing to be f*cked in the a$$ regularly in order to recieve money...

...or is that just where I work

Shite! You mean that was the prostitute joke?

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Kensey:
Last time I went out job-hunting, I went out on three rounds of interviews and had an offer reasonably quickly, and that even with breaking the rule of "don't bring coffee in with you".

From the article:

Do not have bare legs. You should always have sock or stockings during an interview.

I'm not sure my wife would appreciate it if I would start dressing up with her clothes...

PS: Will I be able to make a post with first try? The suspension (pun intended) is killing me!

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Can't Post Guy:
PS: Will I be able to make a post with first try? The suspension (pun intended) is killing me!

Well waddayaknow, hell must have frozen over.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

What did the Leper say to the prostitute?

Keep the tip.

ComputerForumUser · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Kensey:
breaking the rule

For some reason that article mentions not wearing a hat twice. Maybe wearing a hat is twice as bad as any of the others.

Markp · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Dank:
you need
class Heap<T extends Comparable<T>

instead of

class Heap<T implements Comparable<T>

Ah, yes. That is unintuitive.

As for the reason, I've since forgotten it.

Often, the only reason worth remembering is "because that's how the language designers made it."

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Barney? Barney Stinson?

Remy Porter · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

If one wears a hat, one should not wear the hat indoors. That's really what they should have said. Unless your interview is in the park, the hat should be off your head by the time you're meeting your interviewer.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

The Real Jason:
I still can never decide when I should wear a suit or not to an interview

It's easy. If you want to spend the rest of your life choking in a hot expensive garment that's just going to get ruined when they ask you to string some cables, wear a suit. On the other hand if you want to make sure you don't end up working someplace where they judge everything by appearance, don't wear the suit.

People who only care if it "looks good" and not whether it "is good" are what's wrong with this industry... correction... the whole world.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Anon:
Always wear a suit.

And glasses. Be the mild mannered software at day, so that no supects your secret identity!

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Markp:
Dank:
you need
class Heap<T extends Comparable<T>

instead of

class Heap<T implements Comparable<T>

Ah, yes. That is unintuitive.
As for the reason, I've since forgotten it.
Often, the only reason worth remembering is "because that's how the language designers made it."

While I haven't played with generics much, I would assume it's because T is itself treated as an interface, rather than as an abstract class, and interfaces extend other interfaces, they do not implement them.

Why do interfaces extend interfaces, rather than implementing them? Because implementing requires fulfilling the interface's contract, and an interface is not allowed to do that, because it can't have method bodies. So it has to extend.

Although, now that I think of it, abstract classes can implement interfaces, can't they? Hm...

GalacticCowboy · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

FuBar:
If you want to proceed up the ladder, make sure you dress and communicate like the people one step above you. Eventually they may see you as a member of their tribe (we are still primates, after all) or at least their comfort level with you will increase which greatly increases your chances of joining their tribe.

Though you'll probably want to avoid any mention of shared grooming until after you have the offer in hand.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Remy Porter:

Also: hats. People really need to wear nice hats.

Yes. Especially IT guys should wear them. Pointy hats with silver stars. After all, they are considered to be wizards.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Boss:
Wearing a suit to an interview has little to do with how good you look or how formal you can be, it is about showing how much you want the job.

Agreed. And I don't want the job that much. If I'm interviewing at the right place, they want me.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

ARMed but harmless:
Anon:
Always wear a suit.

And glasses. Be the mild mannered software at day, so that no supects your secret identity!

software engineer

Remy Porter · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

wtf:
Although, now that I think of it, abstract classes can implement interfaces, can't they? Hm...

Ah, but any un-implemented interface methods have to be declared as part of the abstract class and implemented by any concrete children. So you're safe.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

mrs_helm:
It's not to show that cloth is vital to programming. It is to display that you are capable of showing respect for the company and the people to whom you will be reporting, and that you are capable of conforming to social norms for specific situations. It might not have prevented you from getting a job thus far, but it certainly can't hurt.
You may think you do not want to work for someone who makes those kinds of judgements, but in reality everyone does, and you're only hurting yourself by refusing to play the system.

Same goes for those with tattoos and piercings. Hide them for interviews, if possible.

Absolutely worng in every respect. I interview programmers all the time. I don't care about tats or piercings, and if someone shows up in a suit it worries me- I've never seen someone who shows up in a suit be any good. Usually the people who worry about dressing to impress do so because they don't have the skills to impress.

Furthermore, when I was interviewing out of college everyplace I interviewed at told me not to wear one- several engineers telling me outright I'd be laughed at. And they're right- they are.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

DOA:
Remy Porter:
I wore a suit to a baseball game on Friday, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.
I wore it simply because I wanted to, because it looks good on me, and it's comfortable. I understand that many people, especially IT folks, see clothes as something more functional and less decorative, but I think that's a really sad attitude. Clothes are fun, and suits are just one of those great things to have and wear, especially when you find a suit that looks good on you and fits well.

Also: hats. People really need to wear nice hats.
I agree. In fact you should go for a tophat. And if you're really fashion conscious you should get one of those pocket watches with the chain that hangs out of your pocket. You'll know you're there when you hear people mumbling about monopoly when they pass you on the street.

In spite of the sarcasm, I actually have a pocket watch on a chain, which I really like. I also enjoy wearing suits (though I do not wear them to work). Ties are not as great but they really can complete the outfit.

I have also seriously considered buying a top hat. It would just be so cool!

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

I think a lot of this suit talk simply depends on what region/industry you're interviewing in.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

AuMatar:
mrs_helm:
It's not to show that cloth is vital to programming. It is to display that you are capable of showing respect for the company and the people to whom you will be reporting, and that you are capable of conforming to social norms for specific situations. It might not have prevented you from getting a job thus far, but it certainly can't hurt.
You may think you do not want to work for someone who makes those kinds of judgements, but in reality everyone does, and you're only hurting yourself by refusing to play the system.

Same goes for those with tattoos and piercings. Hide them for interviews, if possible.

Absolutely worng in every respect. I interview programmers all the time. I don't care about tats or piercings, and if someone shows up in a suit it worries me- I've never seen someone who shows up in a suit be any good. Usually the people who worry about dressing to impress do so because they don't have the skills to impress.

Furthermore, when I was interviewing out of college everyplace I interviewed at told me not to wear one- several engineers telling me outright I'd be laughed at. And they're right- they are.

This is why I stopped wearing suits unless the recruiter specifically says that I should wear one.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Remy Porter:
wtf:
Although, now that I think of it, abstract classes can implement interfaces, can't they? Hm...

Ah, but any un-implemented interface methods have to be declared as part of the abstract class and implemented by any concrete children. So you're safe.

That's right. So my explanation doesn't work - interface methods are abstract, internally, by definition, even if they're not explicitly declared abstract. So for an interface to implement an interface would be fine from that standpoint.

Maybe it's just that the designers thought the logic worked better this way. "An interface can't implement an interface, because an interface can't implement. So we say it extends, and it does the same thing as implementing".

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

runfaraway:
YOU'RE A GREAT BIG IDIOT!!! GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE AND GET BACK TO WORK! HAHAHAHAHA

I predict we'll be seeing this a lot in the near future.

Now stop wasting time and get back to work you useless bags of guts.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

I think the reason is that T can extend/implement multiple classes/interfaces, and the syntax would be <T extends Object & Runnable & Comparable<T>>, so they chose to have 1 keyword for it rather than 2.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

usitas:
AuMatar:
mrs_helm:
It's not to show that cloth is vital to programming. It is to display that you are capable of showing respect for the company and the people to whom you will be reporting, and that you are capable of conforming to social norms for specific situations. It might not have prevented you from getting a job thus far, but it certainly can't hurt.
You may think you do not want to work for someone who makes those kinds of judgements, but in reality everyone does, and you're only hurting yourself by refusing to play the system.

Same goes for those with tattoos and piercings. Hide them for interviews, if possible.

Absolutely worng in every respect. I interview programmers all the time. I don't care about tats or piercings, and if someone shows up in a suit it worries me- I've never seen someone who shows up in a suit be any good. Usually the people who worry about dressing to impress do so because they don't have the skills to impress.

Furthermore, when I was interviewing out of college everyplace I interviewed at told me not to wear one- several engineers telling me outright I'd be laughed at. And they're right- they are.

This is why I stopped wearing suits unless the recruiter specifically says that I should wear one.

I think the reason is that T can extend/implement multiple classes/interfaces, and the syntax would be <T extends Object & Runnable & Comparable<T>>, so they chose to have 1 keyword for it rather than 2.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Winston Chang:
usitas:
AuMatar:
mrs_helm:
It's not to show that cloth is vital to programming. It is to display that you are capable of showing respect for the company and the people to whom you will be reporting, and that you are capable of conforming to social norms for specific situations. It might not have prevented you from getting a job thus far, but it certainly can't hurt.
You may think you do not want to work for someone who makes those kinds of judgements, but in reality everyone does, and you're only hurting yourself by refusing to play the system.

Same goes for those with tattoos and piercings. Hide them for interviews, if possible.

Absolutely worng in every respect. I interview programmers all the time. I don't care about tats or piercings, and if someone shows up in a suit it worries me- I've never seen someone who shows up in a suit be any good. Usually the people who worry about dressing to impress do so because they don't have the skills to impress.

Furthermore, when I was interviewing out of college everyplace I interviewed at told me not to wear one- several engineers telling me outright I'd be laughed at. And they're right- they are.

This is why I stopped wearing suits unless the recruiter specifically says that I should wear one.

I think the reason is that T can extend/implement multiple classes/interfaces, and the syntax would be <T extends Object & Runnable & Comparable<T>>, so they chose to have 1 keyword for it rather than 2.

I partially agree, however purple monkey dishwasher.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

I have a funny interview story.

I work on the documentation team at my company and was tasked with bringing on a new team member. One candidate in particular stood out and did fairly well during the interviews and had decent writing samples. But she did have some strikes against her on her record – namely, jumping around between IT and non-IT jobs – and that made me question her ability to create good documentation from scratch.

For those that do not know, documentation that goes beyond API calls and command-line regurgitation is not all that easy to write well, and poorly written overviews and "How To" documentation can be really horrible for customers. I express my concerns to her and asked if she'd be interesting in a writing challenge to see how well she could write technical material. She agreed, so I gave her a list of potential topics and told her to work on them over the week as a way to prove that she could write the topics well and from scratch.

The following Monday, she turned in her work and it seemed pretty comprehensive and complete. But then I noticed something strange: there was some key terminology that she used that was not in any of the source material I had given her. Looking closer, I realized it was our old terminology used in a previous version of our software.

Curious, I did a quick search and discovered the source: someone had posted our product’s documentation on their website, and the candidate had simply copy/pasted the entire section. She even left in the original typos and grammatical errors.

I'm not sure why she didn't think that maybe, just maybe, the documentation team might recognize their own documentation.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

BlueCollarAstronaut:
I have a funny interview story.
I work on the documentation team at my company and was tasked with bringing on a new team member. One candidate in particular stood out and did fairly well during the interviews and had decent writing samples. But she did have some strikes against her on her record – namely, jumping around between IT and non-IT jobs – and that made me question her ability to create good documentation from scratch.

I had to read that far to acutally get the joke. I am an great big idot. I have to get the hell out of here and get back to work.

Remy Porter · 2010-05-11 Reply Admin

usitas:
This is why I stopped wearing suits unless the recruiter specifically says that I should wear one.

Honestly, the "right" answer is to ask what the dress code of the place is, and dress one step above that. If they're jeans and t-shirts, you wear slacks and a button-down. If they're business casual, you wear a suit. If they're suit-and-tie, you wear a very nice suit.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

What the hell is a "British-English speaker"? I think you mean an "English speaker". Presumably as opposed to one of these modern bastardised dialects.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

Remy Porter:
usitas:
This is why I stopped wearing suits unless the recruiter specifically says that I should wear one.
Honestly, the "right" answer is to ask what the dress code of the place is, and dress one step above that. If they're jeans and t-shirts, you wear slacks and a button-down. If they're business casual, you wear a suit. If they're suit-and-tie, you wear a very nice suit.

Stop pushing your wardrobe choices on me, suitie.

2010-05-11 Reply Admin

BlueCollarAstronaut:
I have a funny interview story...

So much better written than some of what we've been getting around here lately! Thanks for raising the bar.

The Raybinator, Copy & Paste Error, and Yes I Do

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