The Storage Warehouse, The Most Ethical, and The Customizer

  • Brendan 2012-01-24 09:02
    Frisk!


    [Insert grumbling about akismet here]
  • Nagesh 2012-01-24 09:13
    FRIST PROBABLY

  • WC 2012-01-24 09:15
    "In retrospect, they still may have been the most honest and the most ethical of all placement firms."

    I'm sad to say how true that line is. We had so many problems with recruiters, and only threatening to drop them completely stopped them from sending us crappy candidates with doctored resumes. One of them hadn't even ever read what they produced for him.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-24 09:17
    URL Rewriting mean the person wrote his own code insted of relying on url rewriting feature provided by webserver.

    Why is this so complex to understand?
  • someguy 2012-01-24 09:17
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming. Then people start using the "shared" application from a network drive and before you know it's an enterprise level solution with a 2GB size limitation... well, 640kb should be more than enough anyways
  • Andrew 2012-01-24 09:28
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*
  • Nagesh 2012-01-24 09:32
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*


    A light-emitting diode (LED) is a semiconductor light source.
  • My name 2012-01-24 09:33
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
  • DudeWithTude 2012-01-24 09:37
    The URL Rewriter one isn't really a big deal. I would take that to mean someone has experience using mod-rewrite or a similar technology to make the webserver rewrite URLs in some complex fashion.

    I would rather see something like "Use mod-rewrite to produce complex URL rewrite rules", but I certainly wouldn't assume they thought they manually altered url's in stream. It wouldn't weight much against them getting a phone interview depending on the rest of the CV... although I might bring it up in that interview
  • Nagesh 2012-01-24 09:49
    One question people always ask is "What is most interesting project you have on your resume?"

    I reply "All of them were interesting to someone or other. For me all of them held the same degree of interest only."
  • dgvid 2012-01-24 09:52
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.
  • QJo 2012-01-24 09:57
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    A semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82? Sorry, you've confused me ...
  • Ray 2012-01-24 10:02
    QJo:

    A semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82? Sorry, you've confused me ...


    You're right, it's not allowed any more under ROHS regs.
  • Kivi 2012-01-24 10:02
    QJo:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    A semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82? Sorry, you've confused me ...


    Please attempt some sensitivity. I had a son who was a semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82, and I assure you, it was no laughing matter.
  • dpm 2012-01-24 10:05
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
  • Rootbeer 2012-01-24 10:05
    You have to work pretty hard at intentionally misunderstanding "written Javascript functions" and "URL rewriting" to mean "writing on paper" and "anything other than working on code that does URL rewriting".

    Come on.
  • C-Octothorpe 2012-01-24 10:05
    Nagesh:
    URL Rewriting mean the person wrote his own code insted of relying on url rewriting feature provided by webserver.

    Why is this so complex to understand?
    I, um, agree with you...

    I, I, I need to have a shower!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!!
  • C-Octothorpe 2012-01-24 10:08
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads
  • operagost 2012-01-24 10:15
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.
  • geoffrey 2012-01-24 10:21
    someguy:
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming. Then people start using the "shared" application from a network drive and before you know it's an enterprise level solution with a 2GB size limitation... well, 640kb should be more than enough anyways


    It's not the ONLY way to go, but it can be a REASONABLE solution. Not everything needs to be high tech and bleeding edge to be effective.
  • operagost 2012-01-24 10:21
    Nagesh:
    FRIST PROBABLY


    Nope, Chuck Testa.
  • XXXXX 2012-01-24 10:24
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.

    Q: Where do you see yourself in 2 years?
    Don't say doing your wife...
    Don't say doing your wife...
    Don't say doing your wife...

    Doing your son?
  • Ben Jammin 2012-01-24 10:29
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads


    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.

    CAPTCHA: pecus - Chickens eat corn with their pecus
  • Spider Flyer 2012-01-24 10:33
    WC:
    "In retrospect, they still may have been the most honest and the most ethical of all placement firms."

    I'm sad to say how true that line is. We had so many problems with recruiters, and only threatening to drop them completely stopped them from sending us crappy candidates with doctored resumes. One of them hadn't even ever read what they produced for him.


    Actually, at the recruiting companies I've worked for:

    You usually don't see the resume version that's sent to the company.

    The recruiter that's talking to you isn't technology based, so the specified combination of "requirements" mentioned for the "assistant manager of a storage warehouse" position wouldn't trigger any red flags in their review of the job.
  • foo 2012-01-24 10:44
    DudeWithTude:
    The URL Rewriter one isn't really a big deal. I would take that to mean someone has experience using mod-rewrite or a similar technology to make the webserver rewrite URLs in some complex fashion.

    I would rather see something like "Use mod-rewrite to produce complex URL rewrite rules", but I certainly wouldn't assume they thought they manually altered url's in stream.
    Oh yes, they did. I actually know this guy. Hey, Akismet, how you're doing?
  • Martijn 2012-01-24 10:49
    Why is the middle story called "The URL rewriter"? Having that on your resume isn't that much of a WTF. The space in "Java Script" is. That space tells me the guy is confused about what Javascript is, and I wouldn't hire him for that reason. But experience with URL rewriting technology is perfectly fine. Great, even. (Though I would ask a question about it.)
  • Zylon 2012-01-24 10:57
    Knife, Fork and Spoon!

    They fight crime!
  • Andrew 2012-01-24 11:05
    Kivi:
    Please attempt some sensitivity. I had a son who was a semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82, and I assure you, it was no laughing matter.
    I was a commenter like you once, then I took a joke to the knee. And let me assure you, it was definitely a laughing matter.
  • callcopse 2012-01-24 11:11
    C-Octothorpe:
    Nagesh:
    URL Rewriting mean the person wrote his own code insted of relying on url rewriting feature provided by webserver.

    Why is this so complex to understand?
    I, um, agree with you...

    I, I, I need to have a shower!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!!


    Well, the point is a tad on the pedantic side, so surely perfect for the assembled grizzly crew? 'URL Rewriting' as a modified verb, is surely only performed during the serving of web pages. Should the applicant write 'Worked on URL Rewriting code' or ven 'Implemented URL Rewriting' or somesuch this would be more accurate.

    Sorry, I could never bring myself to agree with an Octonaut, even a C one.
  • Anketam 2012-01-24 11:11
    Ben Jammin:
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads
    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.
    Yea, unfortunately the smart people he is getting are not stupid enough to take the job. But if someone was stupid enough to take the job, then he would complain that they were a dumbass.
  • Samurai Pizza cat 2012-01-24 11:42
    Zylon:
    Knife, Fork and Spoon!

    They fight crime!
    ALL OVER TOWN!
  • C-Octothorpe 2012-01-24 11:42
    callcopse:
    C-Octothorpe:
    Nagesh:
    URL Rewriting mean the person wrote his own code insted of relying on url rewriting feature provided by webserver.

    Why is this so complex to understand?
    I, um, agree with you...

    I, I, I need to have a shower!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!!


    Well, the point is a tad on the pedantic side, so surely perfect for the assembled grizzly crew? 'URL Rewriting' as a modified verb, is surely only performed during the serving of web pages. Should the applicant write 'Worked on URL Rewriting code' or ven 'Implemented URL Rewriting' or somesuch this would be more accurate.

    Sorry, I could never bring myself to agree with an Octonaut, even a C one.
    Me thinks you misunderstood what I was saying... I agreed with the Nagesh that 'URL Rewriting' is perfectly valid for describing what you worked on in a development effort/project.

    I was just making a joke about how agreeing with Nagesh about anything is fundamentally wrong, even when he's right.

    Addendum (2012-01-24 11:52):
    Forgot to mention that I wouldn't disqualfy any resume based solely on the fact that, LOLOMG they didn't write it exactly how *I* would have written it!!!1@

    The other errors in that list would have made the resume destined for the paper shredder anyway...
  • Carl 2012-01-24 11:48
    Responsibilities:
    * Coding in C#.net (asp.net).
    * Written Java Script functions, bug fixing.
    * Url rewriting.
    the development manager lead me to the board room.
    Missing from his list of responsibilities: English literacy superior to that of natives.
  • Not Jimmy Wales 2012-01-24 12:05
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."


    Am I the only person who thought he was interviewing with Red Forman?
  • F 2012-01-24 12:08
    Kivi:
    QJo:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    A semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82? Sorry, you've confused me ...


    Please attempt some sensitivity. I had a son who was a semiconductor-based source of illumination made of a soft grayish metal atomic no. 82, and I assure you, it was no laughing matter.


    Not for you, maybe, but for the rest of us it's hilarious.
  • emurphy 2012-01-24 12:20
    “Let’s figure out a way to get your father’s experience in Electrical Engineering on your resume – that’ll certainly get you past HR and score an actual interview.”


    If this was mentioned as being the guy's father's experience, then it would be a perfectly valid form of non-traditional experience, exactly as discussed. But if you trust any headhunter to do anything ethical ever, well, I've got some swampland in Nebraska that may interest you...
  • anonymouser 2012-01-24 12:21
    I like a good fork and spoon, but spoon first. After the fork, who wants the spoon?
  • emurphy 2012-01-24 12:25
    C-Octothorpe:
    Forgot to mention that I wouldn't disqualfy any resume based solely on the fact that, LOLOMG they didn't write it exactly how *I* would have written it!!!1@


    Hell, I've had to repeatedly correct at least two colleagues on the difference between Java and Javascript, but then it's a .NET shop so it's pretty rare that any of us need to work directly with either. The same mistake in a J2EE shop would be orders of magnitude WTFier.
  • Cian 2012-01-24 12:27
    That second one has to be made up from various bits of my current employer:

    Access customised for each user - one of the pre-merger firms used to do that; causing serious legacy issues now
    Poor condition HQ - one side had that; it got refitted for the merger though
    Odd hiring policies to try and stop people leaving - fairly poor basic salaries and HUGE, almost impossible to not get bonuses were de rigure for the side with the bad HQ.

    Its been fixed for the most part, although those Access "applications" have a habit of biting us from time to time. One massive deployment has been upsized to SQL but is otherwise the same as it was in 1993...
  • MrBob 2012-01-24 12:44
    A knife and a fork,
    a bottle and a cork.
    That's the way you spell New York.
  • Coyne 2012-01-24 13:00
    The Storage Warehouse: "Let me whisper in your ear: Anyone who is smart enough to cross your bar is way too smart to work for you."

    The Customizer: Clearly a business model based on banana republic military.

    The URL Rewriter: To improve his résumé, he should work on moving up to URI's.

    The Most Ethical: "Trust us, we are the most ethical!" said the used car salesman.

  • Silfax 2012-01-24 13:25
    Nagesh:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*


    A light-emitting diode (LED) is a semiconductor light source.


    OK - so you are brighter than the original author. I suppose that LEDs could have leaded leads.
  • C-Octothorpe 2012-01-24 13:28
    emurphy:
    C-Octothorpe:
    Forgot to mention that I wouldn't disqualfy any resume based solely on the fact that, LOLOMG they didn't write it exactly how *I* would have written it!!!1@


    Hell, I've had to repeatedly correct at least two colleagues on the difference between Java and Javascript, but then it's a .NET shop so it's pretty rare that any of us need to work directly with either. The same mistake in a J2EE shop would be orders of magnitude WTFier.
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...
  • Jay 2012-01-24 14:10
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
  • Jay 2012-01-24 14:15
    DudeWithTude:
    The URL Rewriter one isn't really a big deal. I would take that to mean someone has experience using mod-rewrite or a similar technology to make the webserver rewrite URLs in some complex fashion.

    I would rather see something like "Use mod-rewrite to produce complex URL rewrite rules", but I certainly wouldn't assume they thought they manually altered url's in stream. It wouldn't weight much against them getting a phone interview depending on the rest of the CV... although I might bring it up in that interview


    Well, okay, now that you put it that way, that may be what they meant. It still sounds funny as worded, though. Like if someone said they wanted to hire a psychiatric counselor "experienced in dying", it would be funny, even if we realized what they meant.
  • Jay 2012-01-24 14:16
    The storage manager job requirements sound perfectly sensible to me. I'll bet there are lots of managers of U-Haul storage warehouses who wouldn't know how to install Apache on a Linux server if their lives depended on it.
  • Anon 2012-01-24 14:19
    someguy:
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming.


    Seems to me, it happens even more often when there are Engineers working at the company. Even worse when its actually an engineering firm.
  • Jay 2012-01-24 14:21
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.
  • C-Octothorpe 2012-01-24 14:25
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
    Well, you're partially correct, but it's the sum of the parts (the errors) that, rightly so, raise a red flag. If the schmuck can't run a spell-check on his resume, then it makes him look lazy and uncaring. A resume is supposed to sell you, show your highlights, not a list of typos and errors that can easily be fixed.

    That being said, I wouldn't rule someone out based solely on a typo or two, especially if they have some interesting experience.
  • Jay 2012-01-24 14:28
    Okay, a meandering tangent, but ... The "we are the most ethical" remainds me of a news story I saw recently.

    They interviewed a policeman who said he received a routine call that someone at a motel was playing excessively loud music in the middle of the night and generally being disruptive. So the policeman went to the motel room and knocked on the door. A man opened the door, saw the policeman, and immediately said, "I swear, she said she was over 18!" The policeman then commented to the reporter, "When this is the first thing a person says, you know that the rest of the conversation is not going to go well."

    When someone finds it necessary to repeatedly assure me how honest they are, when I have not questioned their honesty at all, well, it just makes me a little nervous.
  • hoodaticus 2012-01-24 14:41
    I believe I once worked for The Customizer. Oh wait... Access. My prior used Excel instead.

    I was specifically not allowed to write any code that wasn't a macro. I was the only programmer...

    And there were thousands of these spreadsheets - one per CustomerYear. Each in a format entirely of the creator's unique design.

    My job: normalize it.
  • Scott 2012-01-24 14:48
    "If you all gather 'round the record player, I'll show you how we're going to have a whole lot of fun!"

    Seriously, that's the first thing I think whenever I see that.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 14:50
    MrBob:
    A knife and a fork,
    a bottle and a cork.
    That's the way you spell New York.


    A wank and fuck
    A piddle and a cuck
    That's the way you spell New Yuck.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 14:57
    Samurai Pizza cat:
    Zylon:
    Knife, Fork and Spoon!

    They fight crime!
    ALL OVER TOWN!

    Jim the Fork and Fred the Spoon vanished into obscurity, while someone wrote a song about their buddy Mac.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 14:59
    anonymouser:
    I like a good fork and spoon, but spoon first. After the fork, who wants the spoon?


    She does, as long as she's not on the wet patch.
  • gizmore 2012-01-24 15:00
    RewriteRule ^(.*)FRIST(.*)$ www.disney.com?donald=$1&goofy=$2 [R=304]


    enim: Enums starting at 2, including FileNotFound
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 15:01
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.


    "Um javascript, dunno wot that is, wot I do all day is, like, you got these tags in a file which go 'script' in angle brackets and what I does is puts things in there that make the computer do what I want."
  • vidkid 2012-01-24 15:02
    I had a similar experience. I told the 'Tech Placement Company', exactly what I was looking for and how far I was wanting to drive. (within 30 mins) Let's call this company, 'Bobby Full Placement Services'.

    He would find job openings and try to 'adjust' my skill-set to match the job. Just to GET the interview. It didn't matter to them whether I actually knew it. Somehow it fell under the 'if you design websites, you can fix computers' clause.

    After a few declined interviews he tried calling me a few times about jobs that I would be perfect for (90 minute drive away) and I stopped returning his calls. I had to send him a nasty email when he called a member of my family and a previous employer to try to get a hold of me.

  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 15:02
    gizmore:
    RewriteRule ^(.*)FRIST(.*)$ www.disney.com?donald=$1&goofy=$2 [R=304]


    enim: Enums starting at 2, including FileNotFound


    Said Mickey Mouse to his divorce lawyer, "I didn't *say* I wanted to divorce Minnie because she's got buck teeth. I said she's fucking Goofy."
  • hoger 2012-01-24 15:32
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*
    I know, it's awkward reading "lead" (leed) in your head, pausing rereading, realising led and then continuing with a feeling that something still isn't quite right....

    Also, I would have considered the job in the warehouse. Assistant manager must get a few $$ and it can't be that hard, right? Plus you can then put "assistant manager" on your resume, and become one of the high paid but incompetent IT managers for the futrue
  • Raman 2012-01-24 15:36
    Nagesh:
    One question people always ask is "What is most interesting project you have on your resume?"

    I reply "All of them were interesting to someone or other. For me all of them held the same degree of interest only."
    Maybe a better answer is:
    "I left the most interesting ones off my resume, because "
    (pick one of)
    1) "I didn't want to look to geeky"
    2) "I didn't want you to think I'd get bored in this role"
    3) "It's a closely guarded Govt/military secret"
    4) "We're still going through court...."
    5) "I believe there's a patent pending"
    6) "I'm not sure it's appropriate"
  • Jimbo 2012-01-24 15:41
    Ben Jammin:
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads


    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.

    CAPTCHA: pecus - Chickens eat corn with their pecus
    WOW, now that is a thought. Bad applicants come out of the woodwork in a recession. I would have thought that there are more reasonable candidates around in a recession, simply because there are fewer jobs. There is an interesting corollary, perhaps that shitheads get jobs, but are first to be dumped in a recession. This may (I guess) mean that the percentage (and indeed volume) of shitheads applying for any job is greater. One would like to think, however, that somwhere some competent people got laid off for cost saving too, though, and that these might apply...

    CAPTCHA: aliquam - ali baba's brother (akismet should give bonus points for including CAPTCHA in post)
  • hugh 2012-01-24 15:46
    emurphy:
    C-Octothorpe:
    Forgot to mention that I wouldn't disqualfy any resume based solely on the fact that, LOLOMG they didn't write it exactly how *I* would have written it!!!1@


    Hell, I've had to repeatedly correct at least two colleagues on the difference between Java and Javascript, but then it's a .NET shop so it's pretty rare that any of us need to work directly with either. The same mistake in a J2EE shop would be orders of magnitude WTFier.
    Aye, and the people who think all .Net is C# and C# is MSVC (which is an IDE not a language, aside from all else - I guess people list Eclipse as a skill too??).
  • crocko blocko 2012-01-24 15:54
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
    I'll bite. This is different. The IT world is so pedantic that anyone who uses JavaScript knows that it is JavaScript and must never be confused with Java. Uni grads (and backyard hobbyists) who have grown up on Java often seem to think that JavaScript is some sort of derivative of Java used in Web Development that they've never encountered. Writing Java Script is a sin punishable by death because it propagates these sort of attitudes. Seeing that on a resume would always have me assuming that this person either has a Java background, or has taught themselves to write some basic JavaScript in some hobby web development.

    For the first time ever, I must agree with the Octothorpe that such a mistake would have alarm bells ringing so loudly for me that resume goes to shredder. Then again, misspelling design would have a similar effect on me (it's a resume for crying out loud, this document represents you and your abilities to communicate; it's probably written in an editor that has a spell checker, and yet you manage to misspell a reasonably basic word).

    But some of us are a little elitist
  • Victa 2012-01-24 15:56
    Anon:
    someguy:
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming.


    Seems to me, it happens even more often when there are Engineers working at the company. Even worse when its actually an engineering firm.
    I reckon Engineers more commonly rely on Excel and macros. But don't you dare change it - there is no better way, we've tried!
  • S3wali 2012-01-24 16:02
    Victa:
    Anon:
    someguy:
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming.


    Seems to me, it happens even more often when there are Engineers working at the company. Even worse when its actually an engineering firm.
    I reckon Engineers more commonly rely on Excel and macros. But don't you dare change it - there is no better way, we've tried!
    Agree!

    On a vaguely related sidenote (that seems to appear in other comments), the real WTF is definitely access. I've often seen people use access for stuff that could be done in Excel (so use Excel Goddammit). If you're using Access for something that can't be done in Excel, then you're doing it wrong and need to find a different tool....
    ie, there are only 2 rules:
    1) If it can be done in Excel, don't use Access (sometimes don't use Excel either)
    2) If it can't be done in Excel, don't use Access
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-24 16:11
    Jimbo:
    Ben Jammin:
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads


    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.

    CAPTCHA: pecus - Chickens eat corn with their pecus
    WOW, now that is a thought. Bad applicants come out of the woodwork in a recession. I would have thought that there are more reasonable candidates around in a recession, simply because there are fewer jobs. There is an interesting corollary, perhaps that shitheads get jobs, but are first to be dumped in a recession. This may (I guess) mean that the percentage (and indeed volume) of shitheads applying for any job is greater. One would like to think, however, that somwhere some competent people got laid off for cost saving too, though, and that these might apply...

    CAPTCHA: aliquam - ali baba's brother (akismet should give bonus points for including CAPTCHA in post)


    Competent people, when they get laid off, usually just need to contact their network and are headhunted. Everyone else is shit.
  • Backseat lawyer 2012-01-24 16:25
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Interesting that the company lawyers said that was ok.

    Pretty sure that is an unenforceable clause that may even make the entire contract invalid.

    Certainly they're begging for a lawsuit.
  • Ben Jammin 2012-01-24 16:31
    Jimbo:
    Ben Jammin:
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads


    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.

    CAPTCHA: pecus - Chickens eat corn with their pecus
    WOW, now that is a thought. Bad applicants come out of the woodwork in a recession. I would have thought that there are more reasonable candidates around in a recession, simply because there are fewer jobs. There is an interesting corollary, perhaps that shitheads get jobs, but are first to be dumped in a recession. This may (I guess) mean that the percentage (and indeed volume) of shitheads applying for any job is greater. One would like to think, however, that somwhere some competent people got laid off for cost saving too, though, and that these might apply...

    CAPTCHA: aliquam - ali baba's brother (akismet should give bonus points for including CAPTCHA in post)


    I don't really see the surprise. In a free market society, employers aiming for the highest profit margin will find the balance in hiring the cheapest workers that make the best product. There are definitely competent people laid off in a recession, and those seem to be the targets of this guy's job ad.

    But yes, with the inability to keep all their employees, employers seem to get rid of the incompetent shitheads first, and maybe the expensive, competent, but unprofitable people next (assuming they could be replaced with cheaper, qualified people)

    This is not taking into account the Peter Principle, Dunning-Kruger effect, negative selection, or anything else I found on my quick/humorous wikipedia search to make me sound smart.

    CAPTCHA: erat - .worra eht morf eenk ym tcetorp ot gnihton did erat ehT (even more bonus points for it backwards.)
  • Lazy dog 2012-01-24 16:34
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.
    MS Access is ok for quick'n'dirty prototyping, especially if you're trying to capture the real user requirements.

    - I sometimes think that Government IT projects would be much better if they first did a mockup in MS Access or similar. That way it might still be over budget and late, but at least the damn thing might be useful!

    Just so long as you understand that the real thing is not going to be running on a Jet engine.

    (Now there's a marketing name if I ever saw one!)
  • anon 2012-01-24 16:41
    Backseat lawyer:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Interesting that the company lawyers said that was ok.

    Pretty sure that is an unenforceable clause that may even make the entire contract invalid.

    Certainly they're begging for a lawsuit.


    Uh, yea, no it's certainly not illegal or unenforceable. It's actually the entire basis of employment contracts, and it goes both ways. You can't quit without cause, and they can't fire you without cause. There are generally provisions for buying out the rest of the contract if one side wishes to terminate early.
  • Lazy dog 2012-01-24 16:48
    Jimbo:
    Ben Jammin:
    C-Octothorpe:
    My name:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."

    Been there.

    "I thought I’d raise the bar a little and only get smart college guys and the like."

    Not done that (yet), but may give it a try!
    I'm guessing you didn't read the last sentece in that story?
    That ad was up for nearly a year in the want ads


    I could see being tired of bad applicants in a recession, since they come out of the wood works. However, you do have to pay for what you ask.

    CAPTCHA: pecus - Chickens eat corn with their pecus
    WOW, now that is a thought. Bad applicants come out of the woodwork in a recession. I would have thought that there are more reasonable candidates around in a recession, simply because there are fewer jobs. There is an interesting corollary, perhaps that shitheads get jobs, but are first to be dumped in a recession. This may (I guess) mean that the percentage (and indeed volume) of shitheads applying for any job is greater. One would like to think, however, that somwhere some competent people got laid off for cost saving too, though, and that these might apply...
    Nope, the shitheads are the first to get dumped where possible.

    First of all, "temporary" and agency workers are dumped, starting with the most useless.

    Then there may be "voluntary" redundancies. The ones who try for the voluntary will be those who can get an equivalent job in no time, those who want a career break and the useless ones who can see the writing on the wall.

    Given that their managers will want to get rid of any dross*, if there are more volunteers than redundancies...

    Secondly, the first two of these groups will not be applying for new jobs - they either don't want them or already got them.

    Finally, once the compulsory redundancies hit, again, the managers will be trying to ensure they keep their best* people.

    So yes, in a tough market the percentage of crap will be much higher than usual.

    *Their definitions of "dross" and "best" may not match that of a sane person looking to the future of the company.
  • foo 2012-01-24 17:08
    C-Octothorpe:
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
    Well, you're partially correct, but it's the sum of the parts (the errors) that, rightly so, raise a red flag. If the schmuck can't run a spell-check on his resume, then it makes him look lazy and uncaring.
    What spell-check? "Java" and "script" are both perfectly cromulent words.
  • Tud 2012-01-24 18:14
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.


    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.
  • Ben Jammin 2012-01-24 18:46
    Tud:
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.


    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Please wash your mouth out with soap. MS Access is a blight. The problem with using it in any business sense is that the main goal of any business is to grow/stay around. This means anything made with Access will need to be scalable and maintainable. Access is neither, especially when given to a standard user. If someone wants to catalog their movie collection, give em Access. If a pointy-haired manager wants to say he can make databases and doesn't need programmers, he'll use Access. I assume since you are on this site, you are neither, and should be ashamed of yourself.

    Of course, this rant may be caused by years of my life being wasted by upgrading, consolidating, and maintaining friggin Access apps.
  • herby 2012-01-24 19:56
    Recruiters and their minions sometimes don't have any grasp of basic skills. Some (recruiters) are hired from the opposite coast and don't have any map skills. Like today, when I was called for a job in Rancho Cucamonga, which is nice, but I'm over 300 miles away in Northern California. Sure, it it nice, but get real, I'm NOT going to do a daily commute for 6 hours down I-5 (it takes that long to get even close) to go to a job (sorry no relocation!). Don't these guys do a LITTLE bit of homework before they call people up on the phone.

    Then again, it is probably asking too much given the recruiters own skill set such as it is.
  • Franz Kafka 2012-01-24 20:42
    anon:

    Uh, yea, no it's certainly not illegal or unenforceable. It's actually the entire basis of employment contracts, and it goes both ways. You can't quit without cause, and they can't fire you without cause. There are generally provisions for buying out the rest of the contract if one side wishes to terminate early.


    it is almost always illegal and unenforceable (the only exception I know of is military service). The court considers it too close to slavery to stomach. What you will find is penalty clauses if you leave too soon, often tied to signing bonuses.
  • Franz Kafka 2012-01-24 20:43
    Tud:

    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Would you be happier with 'the real WTF is Access in a production environment'? I don't think many will object to an Access prototype, except for the part where management sees it and decides that that's the final product.
  • shuyer 2012-01-24 20:48
    herby:
    Recruiters and their minions sometimes don't have any grasp of basic skills. Some (recruiters) are hired from the opposite coast and don't have any map skills. Like today, when I was called for a job in Rancho Cucamonga, which is nice, but I'm over 300 miles away in Northern California. Sure, it it nice, but get real, I'm NOT going to do a daily commute for 6 hours down I-5 (it takes that long to get even close) to go to a job (sorry no relocation!). Don't these guys do a LITTLE bit of homework before they call people up on the phone.

    Then again, it is probably asking too much given the recruiters own skill set such as it is.

    Is it that recruiters have no map skills, or that they don't verify the results their searches give them? I know a lot of automated job-matching (like what linkedin does, for example) seems to assume that anyone in Australia might like to work in Sydney. Now I live in a little place called Adelaide (we call , and couldn't think of anything worse than moving 1800km (about 1100 miles or more) just to work in that hell hole. It similarly suggests that Melbourne, Brisbane and even Perth are places where I might want to work. Then again, I guess you can walk anywhere in Australia, right? If you carry enough water, I guess!
  • Friedrich the Great 2012-01-24 20:50
    Franz Kafka:
    Tud:

    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Would you be happier with 'the real WTF is Access in a production environment'? I don't think many will object to an Access prototype, except for the part where management sees it and decides that that's the final product.

    The problem with MS Access is that it enables people who know nothing about designing a database to create a database. Click, click through a wizard, click, click: "Look, Ma, I done made a database!"
  • Friedrich the Great 2012-01-24 20:54
    shuyer:
    herby:
    Recruiters and their minions sometimes don't have any grasp of basic skills. Some (recruiters) are hired from the opposite coast and don't have any map skills. Like today, when I was called for a job in Rancho Cucamonga, which is nice, but I'm over 300 miles away in Northern California. Sure, it it nice, but get real, I'm NOT going to do a daily commute for 6 hours down I-5 (it takes that long to get even close) to go to a job (sorry no relocation!). Don't these guys do a LITTLE bit of homework before they call people up on the phone.

    Then again, it is probably asking too much given the recruiters own skill set such as it is.

    Is it that recruiters have no map skills, or that they don't verify the results their searches give them? I know a lot of automated job-matching (like what linkedin does, for example) seems to assume that anyone in Australia might like to work in Sydney. Now I live in a little place called Adelaide (we call , and couldn't think of anything worse than moving 1800km (about 1100 miles or more) just to work in that hell hole. It similarly suggests that Melbourne, Brisbane and even Perth are places where I might want to work. Then again, I guess you can walk anywhere in Australia, right? If you carry enough water, I guess!

    I live and work in Hawaii, have for many decades, own my own house, etc. Got many calls from recruiters wanting to send me to jobs on the US mainland, even though I'd already let them know I wouldn't take any jobs outside of Hawaii...
  • other guy 2012-01-24 21:11
    someguy:
    Access is the ONLY way to go... if i had a penny for every single time I heard that. That's what happens when regular office personnel goes into programming. Then people start using the "shared" application from a network drive and before you know it's an enterprise level solution with a 2GB size limitation... well, 640kb should be more than enough anyways


    "Functional dependence", son. There were far worse things at my last job than having a reason to hang in the VP's (reasonably easy on the eyes) admin assistant's cube talking SQL.
  • shuyer 2012-01-24 21:32
    shuyer:
    herby:
    Recruiters and their minions sometimes don't have any grasp of basic skills. Some (recruiters) are hired from the opposite coast and don't have any map skills. Like today, when I was called for a job in Rancho Cucamonga, which is nice, but I'm over 300 miles away in Northern California. Sure, it it nice, but get real, I'm NOT going to do a daily commute for 6 hours down I-5 (it takes that long to get even close) to go to a job (sorry no relocation!). Don't these guys do a LITTLE bit of homework before they call people up on the phone.

    Then again, it is probably asking too much given the recruiters own skill set such as it is.

    Is it that recruiters have no map skills, or that they don't verify the results their searches give them? I know a lot of automated job-matching (like what linkedin does, for example) seems to assume that anyone in Australia might like to work in Sydney. Now I live in a little place called Adelaide (we call it a city, most of the rest of Australia calls it a big country town), and couldn't think of anything worse than moving 1800km (about 1100 miles or more) just to work in that hell hole. It similarly suggests that Melbourne, Brisbane and even Perth are places where I might want to work. Then again, I guess you can walk anywhere in Australia, right? If you carry enough water, I guess!
    ---EDITED - italicised bit completed - EDITED ---
  • Coyne 2012-01-24 23:06
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.
  • Tsu Spade 2012-01-24 23:30
    Access is nice and usable - as a drone frontend for SQL server. Or for saving mom's phone book when you happen to have an Office Pro license (don't know about the current ones, 2000 pro included Access)
  • oheso 2012-01-24 23:54
    Tsu Spade:
    Access is nice and usable - as a drone frontend for SQL server.


    You beat me to it. Perfectly acceptable as a business solution, in a production environment: as a front end.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-25 01:19
    Ben Jammin:
    Tud:
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.


    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Please wash your mouth out with soap. MS Access is a blight. The problem with using it in any business sense is that the main goal of any business is to grow/stay around. This means anything made with Access will need to be scalable and maintainable. Access is neither, especially when given to a standard user. If someone wants to catalog their movie collection, give em Access. If a pointy-haired manager wants to say he can make databases and doesn't need programmers, he'll use Access. I assume since you are on this site, you are neither, and should be ashamed of yourself.

    Of course, this rant may be caused by years of my life being wasted by upgrading, consolidating, and maintaining friggin Access apps.


    Well instead of sitting there in a puddle of piss whining about it, how about you get off your fat soggy arse and build an application that converts an Access application to something more flexible, maintainable and usable?
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-25 01:23
    Coyne:
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.
  • Arancaytar 2012-01-25 02:03
    “We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely,”


    How incredible!
  • QJo 2012-01-25 03:52
    Coyne:
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    "... throw your tail onto the street..." You have a tail? Aha - I get it! You're a code monkey! I can get away with paying you peanuts!
  • Anonymous Coward 2012-01-25 04:45
    Heck yes, Eclipse IS a skill - do you know how much tinkering that pile of an IDE needs to be functional with the bunch of plugins usually gets tacked on to it?
  • FIA 2012-01-25 06:19
    Anonymous Coward:
    Heck yes, Eclipse IS a skill - do you know how much tinkering that pile of an IDE needs to be functional with the bunch of plugins usually gets tacked on to it?


    It's true, never did a piece of software so perfectly embody the old IT standby of 'have you tried turning it off and on again' as Eclipse does.

    Good enough for most tasks, but definitely a master of none specific.
  • chris 2012-01-25 08:48
    >But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.

    SharePoint?
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 09:16
    C-Octothorpe:
    Nagesh:
    URL Rewriting mean the person wrote his own code insted of relying on url rewriting feature provided by webserver.

    Why is this so complex to understand?
    I, um, agree with you...

    I, I, I need to have a shower!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!! WASH THE DIRTY OFF!!


    If you change your shoes and step into mine and see world vision from my eyes, you will find you agree lot more with me. The first step is to open your mind. The second is to change shoes (not literal change of footware as in replace formal shoe with sneakers). No need for showers.
  • Knot Westwood 2012-01-25 09:17
    Matt Westwood:
    Samurai Pizza cat:
    Zylon:
    Knife, Fork and Spoon!

    They fight crime!
    ALL OVER TOWN!

    Jim the Fork and Fred the Spoon vanished into obscurity, while someone wrote a song about that fuck-wit cunt Mac.
    Westwooded TFY
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 09:17
    Anonymous Coward:
    Heck yes, Eclipse IS a skill - do you know how much tinkering that pile of an IDE needs to be functional with the bunch of plugins usually gets tacked on to it?


    Eclipse is bestest IDE as far as my knowledge.
  • Mike MacKenzie 2012-01-25 12:55
    Often the recruiting firm doesn't give the candidate an opportunity to review the resume before they send it over. In one instance, IBM was looking for testers that hadn't worked with AIX before, but the recruiters sent the resume of a contract developer that helped created AIX 3.n, editing that experience away.
  • Unicorn #8157 2012-01-25 13:59
    I regret to inform you that late last night Alex was in an interview that resulted in him being offered another job. We're still trying to work out what we want to do with this site, whether we want to keep it going or call it. We wish Alex's family the best in these difficult times and ask that you bear with us.
  • REXX 2012-01-25 14:03
    Not Jimmy Wales:
    "I am just sick of getting dumbass applicants."


    Am I the only person who thought he was interviewing with Red Forman?


    He's dumb. And an ass.

    (shining light with angelic choir).

    He's a dumbass!
  • Coyne 2012-01-25 14:11
    Matt Westwood:
    Coyne:
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.


    Absolutely. And they will give you what's behind door 3, which is one, lonely, corroded nickel. 40% of which will go to legal costs.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 14:26
    Unicorn #8157:
    I regret to inform you that late last night Alex was in an interview that resulted in him being offered another job. We're still trying to work out what we want to do with this site, whether we want to keep it going or call it. We wish Alex's family the best in these difficult times and ask that you bear with us.


    new job? is he getting more take home salary?
  • Silfax 2012-01-25 14:31
    Raman:
    Nagesh:
    One question people always ask is "What is most interesting project you have on your resume?"

    I reply "All of them were interesting to someone or other. For me all of them held the same degree of interest only."
    Maybe a better answer is:
    "I left the most interesting ones off my resume, because "
    (pick one of)
    1) "I didn't want to look to geeky"
    2) "I didn't want you to think I'd get bored in this role"
    3) "It's a closely guarded Govt/military secret"
    4) "We're still going through court...."
    5) "I believe there's a patent pending"
    6) "I'm not sure it's appropriate"


    I have used #3 several times. My resume states where I was working and very generically what I was doing, while leaving out all of the details. If pressed, I just state "need to know".
  • Silfax 2012-01-25 14:34
    Nagesh:
    Anonymous Coward:
    Heck yes, Eclipse IS a skill - do you know how much tinkering that pile of an IDE needs to be functional with the bunch of plugins usually gets tacked on to it?


    Eclipse is bestest IDE as far as my knowledge.


    beastiest is more like it.
  • Argle 2012-01-25 14:48
    Companies essentially get the employees they deserve.

    I was teaching a C class years ago and I found it practical to have their first assignment just be "hello, world" so they got used to using the compiler. I also explained that 3/4 of their grade came from assignments, not tests (it being a practical class). One student was there every day, but only turned in the first assignment. He scored roughly 15% on the mid-term and only marginally better on the final. When his F grade arrived, he called and was all upset with me. I pointed out that he only turned in the first assignment and assignments were the majority of the grade. His stunning reply? "I thought my test grades would carry me." Um, sure.

    Well, the point of this story is that the guy's company had paid for him to take the class to augment his work he did as a programmer for them. The class revealed that didn't know how to program at all. Zilch. And he had worked for them for a year. Now he was about to get fired. I got thinking, "great! a programmer who doesn't know how to program and an employer that doesn't know it. They shouldn't fire him; they are made for each other."
  • DavidTC 2012-01-25 15:12
    DudeWithTude:
    I would rather see something like "Use mod-rewrite to produce complex URL rewrite rules", but I certainly wouldn't assume they thought they manually altered url's in stream. It wouldn't weight much against them getting a phone interview depending on the rest of the CV... although I might bring it up in that interview

    Yeah, I'm doing 'URL rewriting' right now...that is, I'm writing some Joomla SEF routers for components that didn't have them or had crappy ones.

    'URL rewriting' is kinda vague, considering how many levels that can work at. Server level, application level, hell, he could mean that he wrote some Javascript to rewrite URLs in a page, like to redirect outgoing links through analytics. (He is, after all, apparently made of written Javascript functions.;)

    'Where did you do that?' and 'What did you use it for?' seem relevant questions in an interview, if just to make sure it's not 'I know how to input an old URL and a new URL in a GUI.'
  • shadowman 2012-01-25 15:19
    crocko blocko:
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
    I'll bite. This is different. The IT world is so pedantic that anyone who uses JavaScript knows that it is JavaScript and must never be confused with Java. Uni grads (and backyard hobbyists) who have grown up on Java often seem to think that JavaScript is some sort of derivative of Java used in Web Development that they've never encountered. Writing Java Script is a sin punishable by death because it propagates these sort of attitudes. Seeing that on a resume would always have me assuming that this person either has a Java background, or has taught themselves to write some basic JavaScript in some hobby web development.

    For the first time ever, I must agree with the Octothorpe that such a mistake would have alarm bells ringing so loudly for me that resume goes to shredder. Then again, misspelling design would have a similar effect on me (it's a resume for crying out loud, this document represents you and your abilities to communicate; it's probably written in an editor that has a spell checker, and yet you manage to misspell a reasonably basic word).

    But some of us are a little elitist


    In most cases I agree with that, but the article mentioned this guy was from overseas and possibly a non-native English speaker -- so he'd get cut some slack for the Java Script thing.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 15:37
    Silfax:
    Nagesh:
    Anonymous Coward:
    Heck yes, Eclipse IS a skill - do you know how much tinkering that pile of an IDE needs to be functional with the bunch of plugins usually gets tacked on to it?


    Eclipse is bestest IDE as far as my knowledge.


    beastiest is more like it.


    Name anything that come close to Eclipse for java development. If you are very found of VS2010, I can step into your shoes and understand that. But if you're are doing java development, then Eclipse is best!
  • AN AMAZING CODER 2012-01-25 15:48
    Nagesh:


    Name anything that come close to Eclipse for java development. If you are very found of VS2010, I can step into your shoes and understand that. But if you're are doing java development, then Eclipse is best!


    IntelliJ IDEA 11 is vastly superior to eclipse IMO. Opinion being the keyword you'll probably miss.

    I've used both professionally.
  • s73v3r 2012-01-25 16:19
    I would find it incredibly hard to believe there isn't some shit in the contract which says you can't quit on them, but they are free to fire you whenever they feel like.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-25 16:22
    Knot Westwood:
    Matt Westwood:
    Samurai Pizza cat:
    Zylon:
    Knife, Fork and Spoon!

    They fight crime!
    ALL OVER TOWN!

    Jim the Fork and Fred the Spoon vanished into obscurity, while someone wrote a song about that fuck-wit cunt Mac.
    Westwooded TFY


    You stupid arse-faced pig - fuckwit has no hyphen.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-01-25 16:23
    Coyne:
    Matt Westwood:
    Coyne:
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.


    Absolutely. And they will give you what's behind door 3, which is one, lonely, corroded nickel. 40% of which will go to legal costs.


    Oh yes of course, you live in that poor benighted land where justice is a game.
  • s73v3r 2012-01-25 16:31
    anon:
    Backseat lawyer:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Interesting that the company lawyers said that was ok.

    Pretty sure that is an unenforceable clause that may even make the entire contract invalid.

    Certainly they're begging for a lawsuit.


    Uh, yea, no it's certainly not illegal or unenforceable. It's actually the entire basis of employment contracts, and it goes both ways. You can't quit without cause, and they can't fire you without cause. There are generally provisions for buying out the rest of the contract if one side wishes to terminate early.


    For some reason, I find it hard to believe this place would be benevolent enough to offer such reciprocity. I'm guessing there's a clause that says they can fire you whenever they want without penalty.
  • Dr. Acula 2012-01-25 16:36
    I would second IntelliJ. I haven't used it for quite some time though (it would have been back when Eclipse was 2.0 and truly a steaming pile of turd). IntelliJ was a joy. I tried to get management to buy it, but I couldn't convince them that the increase in efficiency with intellij would pay for itself (sigh). Oh well.

    - doc
  • s73v3r 2012-01-25 16:38
    Ben Jammin:
    Tud:
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.


    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Please wash your mouth out with soap. MS Access is a blight. The problem with using it in any business sense is that the main goal of any business is to grow/stay around. This means anything made with Access will need to be scalable and maintainable. Access is neither, especially when given to a standard user. If someone wants to catalog their movie collection, give em Access. If a pointy-haired manager wants to say he can make databases and doesn't need programmers, he'll use Access. I assume since you are on this site, you are neither, and should be ashamed of yourself.

    Of course, this rant may be caused by years of my life being wasted by upgrading, consolidating, and maintaining friggin Access apps.


    I find it hard to believe that there isn't some kind of easy migration solution to big boy databases (at least MS SQL databases) for Access. It seems like a nice way to not only get extra money out of a customer, but to get them paying for bigger toys.
  • s73v3r 2012-01-25 16:42
    Matt Westwood:
    Coyne:
    operagost:
    dpm:
    We have had a problem with people leaving prematurely, so you would need to sign an agreement that you'll work here for two years.
    I cannot remember a finer example of ignoring the cause when treating the problem.
    Putting a duration on this "agreement" makes it a contract, for sure. Sure, no raise for two years (or as this tale implies, ever) but you're guaranteed two years at whatever salary is in the contract. Unless you break the terms of the contract, they can't fire you without buying out your contract.


    Gee, aren't you the "glass half full" kind of guy? I'm willing to bet the company end of the contract is full of loopholes like "probationary periods", "employee handbook violations" (not that the employee will ever see the handbook), and "business need" exceptions.

    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.


    You're assuming that 1). The former employee can actually afford legal representation, and 2). That the former employee knows this.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 17:11
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    Nagesh:


    Name anything that come close to Eclipse for java development. If you are very found of VS2010, I can step into your shoes and understand that. But if you're are doing java development, then Eclipse is best!


    IntelliJ IDEA 11 is vastly superior to eclipse IMO. Opinion being the keyword you'll probably miss.

    I've used both professionally.


    what is price for IntelliJ Idea? Is this from same people who are making Resharper for VS2010?
  • Earp 2012-01-25 17:22
    Don't be evil.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-25 17:24
    Earp:
    Don't be evil.


    Define "evil" and "be".

  • Ben Jammin 2012-01-25 17:33
    s73v3r:
    Ben Jammin:
    Tud:
    Jay:
    On the serious side ... People regularly post on here, "The real WTF is PHP" or "The real WTF is VB". I hope they're joking. While languages have pros and cons and I certainly have my preferences, you can write real programs in VB and PHP is quite useful for some types of apps.

    But "The real WTF is MS Access" ... that one leaves me hard-pressed to think of a counter-argument.


    I don't think it's such a big WTF. I mean, MS Access is a program specifically designed for creating databases, forms, etc. Give me an equivalent software that can let a "standard user" do that with just a bit of trial and error. It's ideal for a small business (between 10 and 1000 records I'd say). Of course it's not intended to be used in an actual production environment. The WTF is that they didn't have anyone (or hire anyone) who knew how to handle "actual databases" and instead chose to keep their existing inadequate system.


    Please wash your mouth out with soap. MS Access is a blight. The problem with using it in any business sense is that the main goal of any business is to grow/stay around. This means anything made with Access will need to be scalable and maintainable. Access is neither, especially when given to a standard user. If someone wants to catalog their movie collection, give em Access. If a pointy-haired manager wants to say he can make databases and doesn't need programmers, he'll use Access. I assume since you are on this site, you are neither, and should be ashamed of yourself.

    Of course, this rant may be caused by years of my life being wasted by upgrading, consolidating, and maintaining friggin Access apps.


    I find it hard to believe that there isn't some kind of easy migration solution to big boy databases (at least MS SQL databases) for Access. It seems like a nice way to not only get extra money out of a customer, but to get them paying for bigger toys.


    Supposedly, Access has an Upgrade Wizard for Sql Server and Sql Server has an import wizard for Access. I say supposedly, because both routes are not perfect conversions and while it tries to take care of data, it is easier for me to do that instead. It seems to have issues with unicode characters in their automated processes.

    However, neither automated upgrade solve the fact that the whole app was made by someone who shouldn't have been making the app, and I'm still stuck with all the forms/reports.
  • Tud 2012-01-25 17:36
    Nagesh:
    Earp:
    Don't be evil.


    Define "evil" and "be".



    Define "Define".
  • Sparr 2012-01-26 01:13
    N% of lacking-unnecessary-keywords resumes don't make it past HR.

    M% of interviewers will forgive lying on a resume if you fess up immediately and explain the contents of this post.

    If M>(100-N) then you should lie on your resume. Feel free to supply your own values for N and M.
  • Robbert 2012-01-26 05:01
    Sparr:
    N% of lacking-unnecessary-keywords resumes don't make it past HR.

    M% of interviewers will forgive lying on a resume if you fess up immediately and explain the contents of this post.

    If M>(100-N) then you should lie on your resume. Feel free to supply your own values for N and M.

    Shouldn't that be M>(N-100) ?
  • Robbert 2012-01-26 05:02
    Robbert:
    Shouldn't that be M>(N-100) ?

    No, wait. That's even worse.
  • Xenious 2012-01-26 07:49
    Captcha: Motherfucking Idiot.
  • Mathew 2012-01-26 08:18
    shadowman:
    crocko blocko:
    Jay:
    C-Octothorpe:
    I would agree with you in that it would be unfair to ask a .net developer what the framework feature differences between Java 1.4 and 5 are or to code a solution on paper in PHP, but christ, not knowing what Java and JavaScript are? Wow...


    To be fair, dividing the word "Javascript" into two words is no evidence at all that the writer doesn't know the difference between Java and Javascript. If someone wrote on a resume that he was "skilled in database desine" I might give him a small minus for the mis-spelling, but I wouldn't conclude that he was lying about having such a skill.
    I'll bite. This is different. The IT world is so pedantic that anyone who uses JavaScript knows that it is JavaScript and must never be confused with Java. Uni grads (and backyard hobbyists) who have grown up on Java often seem to think that JavaScript is some sort of derivative of Java used in Web Development that they've never encountered. Writing Java Script is a sin punishable by death because it propagates these sort of attitudes. Seeing that on a resume would always have me assuming that this person either has a Java background, or has taught themselves to write some basic JavaScript in some hobby web development.

    For the first time ever, I must agree with the Octothorpe that such a mistake would have alarm bells ringing so loudly for me that resume goes to shredder. Then again, misspelling design would have a similar effect on me (it's a resume for crying out loud, this document represents you and your abilities to communicate; it's probably written in an editor that has a spell checker, and yet you manage to misspell a reasonably basic word).

    But some of us are a little elitist


    In most cases I agree with that, but the article mentioned this guy was from overseas and possibly a non-native English speaker -- so he'd get cut some slack for the Java Script thing.

    JavaScript is a name - For that it is quite moot what he speaks.

    Kinda amazing how one cannot grasp Martijn simple point.
  • ParkinT 2012-01-26 08:32
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.
  • Mathew 2012-01-26 08:48
    ParkinT:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.


    yeah, that's totally different in other languages.
  • Honk 2012-01-26 09:17
    ParkinT:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.


    Yeah, that's the greatest problem.

    Phrases like "The current president repents the incident" or "Oh, awesome, really" can easily be solved for their meanings and emotions.

    Hint: Context.
  • Mathew 2012-01-26 09:19
    Mathew:
    ParkinT:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.


    yeah, that's totally different in other languages.


    Indeed. In the german language for example, you have a special form of "read":

    Ich lese.
    Ich las.
    Ich habe gelesen.

    You can totally not express this in english.

    Btw: Go back to school and learn stuff, you know.
  • Nagesh 2012-01-26 09:22
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    Nagesh:


    Name anything that come close to Eclipse for java development. If you are very found of VS2010, I can step into your shoes and understand that. But if you're are doing java development, then Eclipse is best!


    IntelliJ IDEA 11 is vastly superior to eclipse IMO. Opinion being the keyword you'll probably miss.

    I've used both professionally.


    And I kick your ass professionally. Really, your opinion is shit, you 20 year old should come to big corporates first.
  • Mathew 2012-01-26 10:15
    Mathew:
    Mathew:
    ParkinT:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.


    yeah, that's totally different in other languages.


    Indeed. In the german language for example, you have a special form of "read":

    Ich lese.
    Ich las.
    Ich habe gelesen.

    You can totally not express this in english.

    Btw: Go back to school and learn stuff, you know.

    Yeah genius, I was more like referring to the fact that all human spoken languages have ambiguity. Something op implicitly assigned specifically to english.
    I don't need to go to school - I just schooled you.
  • Mathew 2012-01-26 10:28
    Mathew:
    Mathew:
    ParkinT:
    dgvid:
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*

    No, no, the manager actually did use a soft, grayish metal (atomic number 82) to prod the guy into the board room. I mean it may be soft as metals go, but you still don't want to be hit in the head with it.


    Most peculiar (and interesting) thing about the English language:
    If you see the word, read, is it present-tense or past tense?
    This is why machines have difficulty reading/writing English.
    For example.


    yeah, that's totally different in other languages.


    Indeed. In the german language for example, you have a special form of "read":

    Ich lese.
    Ich las.
    Ich habe gelesen.

    You can totally not express this in english.

    Btw: Go back to school and learn stuff, you know.


    and btw - why would a machine have difficulty to differentiate between 'I was reading' and 'I read'?
    Maybe if you have programmed it...

    I really liked your reference to the debate about the google german translator.
  • Hamburger 2012-01-26 15:51
    Mathew:
    and btw - why would a machine have difficulty to differentiate between 'I was reading' and 'I read'?
    Maybe if you have programmed it...


    I read [reed]. -> At the moment.
    I read [red]. -> In the past.

    I guess that's what Mathew talked about.
  • Bad Grammarian 2012-01-27 01:16
    Andrew:
    > the development manager lead me to the board room.

    It's led, please; led, OK? *Sobs at the state of the world*


    Just like the past participle of "read" is "red". Easy to remember.
  • Bad Redditarian 2012-01-27 01:19
    operagost:
    Nagesh:
    FRIST PROBABLY


    Nope, Chuck Testa.


    Uh-oh. Is Reddit leaking again?
  • hikari 2012-01-27 10:53
    hugh:
    emurphy:
    C-Octothorpe:
    Forgot to mention that I wouldn't disqualfy any resume based solely on the fact that, LOLOMG they didn't write it exactly how *I* would have written it!!!1@


    Hell, I've had to repeatedly correct at least two colleagues on the difference between Java and Javascript, but then it's a .NET shop so it's pretty rare that any of us need to work directly with either. The same mistake in a J2EE shop would be orders of magnitude WTFier.
    Aye, and the people who think all .Net is C# and C# is MSVC (which is an IDE not a language, aside from all else - I guess people list Eclipse as a skill too??).


    I think you mean MSVS.

    And actually, yes, they do. People actually care what IDE you're used to using. I've had people ask me in interviews whether I worked with Visual Studio or some other IDE.
  • Jay 2012-01-27 14:24
    Coyne:
    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    I don't know what country you live in. Here in the U.S., any company I've worked for that wanted to fire someone spent months documenting the justification and evidence to back up that justification to protect themselves from lawsuits. A friend of mine who owns a small business fired someone for sleeping on the job. He sued claiming his sleeping was caused by a medical condition and she was forced to rehire him with back pay. I just saw a story in the news of a religious school that fired a teacher for teaching religious doctrines contrary to the beliefs of the organization. She sued for religious discrimination and won the first round of court battles. The school won on appeal; I don't know if that's the end or if there's yet another appeal. But if it's debatable whether you can fire someone for actively working against the goals of the organization, what CAN you fire someone for?

    Matt Westwood:
    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.


    I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that if you didn't see the handbook because they refused to show you a copy, you might have a case. If you didn't see the handbook because you didn't bother to ask for it, I don't see how you'd have a case. "I didn't bother to check the building codes before beginning construction" is not a defense.
  • hoodaticus 2012-01-27 20:35
    Jay:
    Coyne:
    In the pro-business case-law environment that exists in this country: The definition of "idiot" is any manager that can't figure out how to throw your tail onto the street without having to pay you another dime.

    I don't know what country you live in. Here in the U.S., any company I've worked for that wanted to fire someone spent months documenting the justification and evidence to back up that justification to protect themselves from lawsuits. A friend of mine who owns a small business fired someone for sleeping on the job. He sued claiming his sleeping was caused by a medical condition and she was forced to rehire him with back pay. I just saw a story in the news of a religious school that fired a teacher for teaching religious doctrines contrary to the beliefs of the organization. She sued for religious discrimination and won the first round of court battles. The school won on appeal; I don't know if that's the end or if there's yet another appeal. But if it's debatable whether you can fire someone for actively working against the goals of the organization, what CAN you fire someone for?

    Matt Westwood:
    If you don't see the handbook and they try to ditch you for violating it, *you* can sue *them*.


    I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that if you didn't see the handbook because they refused to show you a copy, you might have a case. If you didn't see the handbook because you didn't bother to ask for it, I don't see how you'd have a case. "I didn't bother to check the building codes before beginning construction" is not a defense.

    I'm not a lawyer, but only because I don't want to pay the annual dues. The point of being bound by the handbook is that you basically agree to it. You can't agree to it if it isn't available.

    However, unless you have a good-cause employment contract, it hardly matters.
  • Harold 2012-01-29 06:34
    Well, if the storage guy paid what my degree was worth, I just might take him up on it.
  • jerenept 2012-02-02 20:00
    Pascal, not PASCAL. Dammit. Surely you do not call it PERL?
  • Bozo 2012-02-18 16:44
    Pet résumé peeve #1:

    Submissions in MS Word format

    Pet résumé peeve #2:

    Submissions in MS Word format that are rife with spelling mistakes that Word underlines in red so they are completely obvious

    If you're worried that a prospective employer might not be able to open a PDF, ask yourself whether you really want to work for someone who can't open a PDF.