The Winds of Recession, A Doomed Interivew, and Oops!

  • kastein 2009-06-23 09:03
    I hate to be a grammar nazi, but... RINGED?! SERIOUSLY?!

    How do companies like the last two even stay afloat as long as they do? I just don't get it, it's like you don't even have to try to get a company going, just having your marketing dept lie to enough people works... while companies started by techies who don't understand marketing almost always fail unless they can find someone to sell their services.
  • Menahmenas 2009-06-23 09:08
    I think I would get along with and Bob.
  • Kazan 2009-06-23 09:12
    We don't comment here.


    The sad thing is.. that's not just a pithy remark.. my current employer drank the Agile Koolaid and thinks that comments shouldn't exist.
  • TarquinWJ 2009-06-23 09:13
    Menahmenas:
    I think I would get along with and Bob.
    You would have made a complete sentence, but the wind kept blowing your fingers off the keyboard?
  • kmarsh 2009-06-23 09:13
    I would comment, but it's just too windy right now.
  • Seriously 2009-06-23 09:14
    OK, has anyone ever done one of those interviews where you get a feeling right away that there is no way in hell I would ever want to work here, but you end up taking the job and liking it? If so, please tell us all about it.

    Otherwise, when your instincts say run... run!
  • Marvin the Martian 2009-06-23 09:15
    Who would want to work in a DOOM level? Thousands of geeks that came of age in the mid-nineties, that's who!

    The potential for the most awesome company spirit is there, including but not limited to weekly teambuilding laser-tag shoots right at Drink-o'clock.
  • Ian 2009-06-23 09:17
    It's all fun and games until the Arch-Viles come.
  • Fregas 2009-06-23 09:18
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm
  • getofmylawn 2009-06-23 09:20
    Seriously:
    OK, has anyone ever done one of those interviews where you get a feeling right away that there is no way in hell I would ever want to work here, but you end up taking the job and liking it? If so, please tell us all about it.

    Otherwise, when your instincts say run... run!

    Well, I once had an interview for a software development position. The rest of the team was for some reason located 200km away from where I was supposed to work, and during the interview it was made clear my real job would be to maintain a 30year old COBOL application. I ran.
  • Yanman 2009-06-23 09:22
    I like OO because it makes me feel like god.
    """
    Hello tiny little object, why don't you go enjoy yourself with the rest on the heap? If you don't be have, you'll end up null!!
    """

    Imagine the powers we have!
  • Rudy 2009-06-23 09:23
    Fregas:

    I'm not agreeing with everything Mr. Oopbad has to say, but in 1981 I could type as fast as I wanted and even if the computer fell behind it would eventually catch up without losing a single keystroke. Now I find myself waiting for windows to gain focus and repaint, waiting for text boxes to get an active cursor, and interrupted by annoying pop-ups. This is not now and then. This is constantly, all day.

    Even though the hardware is about a billion times faster, the software has made things slower. I spend a lot more time waiting on my computer than I used to.
  • joelkatz 2009-06-23 09:26
    I once lost a job (long story) and decided to look in the newspaper just on the off chance I could find something awesome. I found a company with a really cool name and called to see if I could get an interview. The guy asked me to come over immediately if I could, so I did.

    It was a house. I walked up to the door and it was slightly opened. I said "hello" and a deep voice boomed "come on in". I did, and followed the voice to a dirty, dark office. At a computer sat a rather large man who was almost naked, sitting on a chair covered with a towel.

    He invited me to sit down on the chair across from him (also at a computer, but it was facing towards him instead), also covered with a towel. After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower, and started a proper job search. No ... just kidding. I took the job on the condition I could work from home. It lasted about 11 days. Worst job I ever had.
  • @Deprecated 2009-06-23 09:27
    Seriously, I would have told Ray that "OOP is the underlying core technology to ASP.NET, and Phil is a primadonna idiot", and then walked out. Or something to that effect.

    Even better if Phil is still in the room.

  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 09:28
    Against my better judgment, I'm posting this:
    it took all of three seconds to realize that I didn't to work there.
    I think you something there.
  • bd 2009-06-23 09:28
    it took all of three seconds to realize that I didn't to work there
    Oh come on, you accidentally the whole WTF.
  • @Deprecated 2009-06-23 09:28
    Rudy:
    Fregas:

    I'm not agreeing with everything Mr. Oopbad has to say, but in 1981 I could type as fast as I wanted and even if the computer fell behind it would eventually catch up without losing a single keystroke. Now I find myself waiting for windows to gain focus and repaint, waiting for text boxes to get an active cursor, and interrupted by annoying pop-ups. This is not now and then. This is constantly, all day.

    Even though the hardware is about a billion times faster, the software has made things slower. I spend a lot more time waiting on my computer than I used to.


    Oh, so you installed Vista, then?
  • cybaz 2009-06-23 09:31
    If they would let me have a chaingun, I would love to work in a DOOM level.
  • Jeff 2009-06-23 09:33
    joelkatz:
    he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower

    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...
  • Tim 2009-06-23 09:34
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)....

    Could this story have gone through the "Re-write to make it a little more fluid, less dramatic but sounding better" machine?
  • Anon 2009-06-23 09:37
    joelkatz:
    After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.


    What did the wife look like? Sounds like the start of a letter to Penthouse Forum.
  • Skieved 2009-06-23 09:44
    joelkatz:
    I once lost a job (long story) and decided to look in the newspaper just on the off chance I could find something awesome. I found a company with a really cool name and called to see if I could get an interview. The guy asked me to come over immediately if I could, so I did.

    It was a house. I walked up to the door and it was slightly opened. I said "hello" and a deep voice boomed "come on in". I did, and followed the voice to a dirty, dark office. At a computer sat a rather large man who was almost naked, sitting on a chair covered with a towel.

    He invited me to sit down on the chair across from him (also at a computer, but it was facing towards him instead), also covered with a towel. After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower, and started a proper job search. No ... just kidding. I took the job on the condition I could work from home. It lasted about 11 days. Worst job I ever had.
    After reading this comment, I went home and took a shower. I think I have to go back home again to take another shower after posting, too.
  • Stu 2009-06-23 09:49
    Except for the fact that you would be working with Bob. I don't even know Bob and I have horrible visions of him print_r in the back of my head.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-06-23 09:49
    The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.

    Seriously, you have no idea the number of small-time idiots I've seen that shouldn't stay in business yet do, and manage to turn a hefty profit despite cutting all kinds of corners and not even understanding WTF their business is.

    I find it very ironic that scam artists stay in business and are successful while honest people routinely end up desperate for income.
  • Spectre 2009-06-23 09:52
    "evernwhere"? How can you make a typo like this?
  • ibwolf 2009-06-23 09:55
    Seriously:
    OK, has anyone ever done one of those interviews where you get a feeling right away that there is no way in hell I would ever want to work here, but you end up taking the job and liking it? If so, please tell us all about it.


    Maybe not quite on that level but...

    After the dot com bubble burst I found myself unemployed and went back to school to get my masters while the job market improved.

    About a year later I applied for a government job that seemed decidedly uninteresting but had the virtue of being located on campus and I figured it might just be a tolerable way of earning a some money while I finished my masters.

    The interview didn't exactly start well as they were well behind schedule and I wound up waiting almost 45 minutes. I nearly left after 15 minutes but the HR person came out and to let me know it would be "just a little longer" ...

    The interview was less an interview and more a presentation of their plans. I had no clear idea what I would be doing.

    Still the salary was acceptable (barely) and the job was convenient and they were willing to make allowances so that I would be able to attend classes etc. So I took the job, figuring I'd finish my degree and be out of there in 18 months, 2 years tops. Its now been over 6 years and I'm not going anywhere.

    It was partially luck. I got assigned to a very interesting project and wound up working on some very cool code. When that was over changes in management etc. led to a promotion to team leader (job interviews here are now ACTUAL job interviews) and I've enjoyed getting our IT infrastructure into tip top shape.
  • terrukallan 2009-06-23 09:56
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    An excerpt from that page that caught my eye:

    Named parameters can optionally make routines very Smalltalk-like. Some people erroneously think that OOP invented named parameters.

    I wonder if the author realizes that Smalltalk was among the first object oriented languages and comes much closer to being purely object oriented than any mainstream language in use today? Admittedly, the author makes no direct statements about the relationship between Smalltalk and OOP. The implication, though, is that Smalltalk had named parameters before OOP languages came around, incorrectly supposing that Smalltalk is not itself OO.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk
  • xtremezone 2009-06-23 10:01
    *twitch*
    ...So many mistakes...
    *twitch*
  • jimlangrunner 2009-06-23 10:02
    Anon:
    joelkatz:
    After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.


    What did the wife look like? Sounds like the start of a letter to Penthouse Forum.
    Hello! McFly! Still stuck in 1984? Penthouse forum didn't survive the inter-tube revolution!

    (I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'!)
  • ih8u 2009-06-23 10:13
    TarquinWJ:
    Menahmenas:
    I think I would get along with and Bob.
    You would have made a complete sentence, but the wind kept blowing your fingers off the keyboard?


    Against my better judgement, I started reading the comments. Then, against my better judgement, I continued to read the comments. Now, against my better judgement, I am posting a comment. Finally, against my better judgement, I am going to do that lame CAPTCHA thing. Does the author of that story have good judement?

    CAPTCHA: aliquam -- sounds latinny (too bad that was years ago)
  • Bappi 2009-06-23 10:14
    Jeff:
    joelkatz:
    he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower

    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...

    In situations like these, the Nudist Rule applies: the people you get to see naked are not the people you want to see naked.
  • MadtM 2009-06-23 10:16
    [quote user="ObiWayneKenobi"]The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.
    quote]

    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 10:23
    Tim:
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)...
    Tim was inadvertently from the following line:
    The atmosphere of silence and despair was overpowering, and no-one seemed to be around. That is, until and Bob appeared.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-06-23 10:25
    MadtM:
    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    A restaurant is a different story since yes, it requires a certain level of decency or it can be shut down due to health regulations, but haven't you ever seen Kitchen Nightmares? There are a lot of restauranteurs out there who have no idea how to run a restaurant, either.
  • Tom Clarke 2009-06-23 10:32
    [QUOTE="Rudy"]I'm not agreeing with everything Mr. Oopbad has to say, but in 1981 I could type as fast as I wanted and even if the computer fell behind it would eventually catch up without losing a single keystroke. Now I find myself waiting for windows to gain focus and repaint, waiting for text boxes to get an active cursor, and interrupted by annoying pop-ups. This is not now and then. This is constantly, all day.
    Even though the hardware is about a billion times faster, the software has made things slower. I spend a lot more time waiting on my computer than I used to.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but is that really OOP to blame? Can someone explain concisely why gaining focus and repainting is an OOP issue? I mean, any GUI based design still has to redraw the screen and grant focus. Why would the language being procedural help with that?
    I can understand that all the waste GUI's bring with them gets annoying, although I'll admit my typing's not fast enough for it to bother me.
    But surely you can just choose to turn off the GUI, and run everything through a text-based OS. You'd lose the added features, but if you're not using them... Am I just wondering why "Grandad's blaming his aching hip on the immigrants"?
  • jammy 2009-06-23 10:35
    I remember when I was looking evernwhere for an interivew. Good job I met and Bob.
  • Tom Clarke 2009-06-23 10:41
    I think the real question that needs asking in that situation is "If you're not using OOP, what architecture ARE you using?" I mean, I quite like the idea of Table-Orientated and can see a lot of uses for it at the back-end (although always remember, to the end-user THE GUI IS THE SYSTEM), but even well-written assembler normally includes the concept of grouping variables by sense and so on.
    Certainly, I can't imagine why you'd use an OOP framework and then try and program the OOP out of it. You've still got the gibberish "behind the scenes", but now you can't take advantage of it. A double-layer framework, as it were.
  • Adriano 2009-06-23 10:41
    Spectre:
    "evernwhere"? How can you make a typo like this?

    Easy: instead of moving the index finger up, you move it down. (Assumes QUERTY)
  • Adriano 2009-06-23 10:44
    Argh. QWERTY. Serves me right for using Dvorak.
  • Kazan 2009-06-23 10:45
    properly written and optimized OOP code is no slower or faster than properly written and optimized procedural code in the same language.

    Bad code [windows] is just bad code.


    PS: The core WinAPI is still proceedural, even if microsoft likes hiding it under OOP wrappers (MFC) and "managed code" [virtual machine] encumbered OOP wrappers (.Net) .


    The increasing hardware demands of windows have to do with
    a) Inefficient design
    b) bug for bug legacy compatibility
    c) WinSxS [vista harddrive space vampire that also slows program loads.. but not appreciably on my vista machine]
    d) multimedia bloating apps [web browsers, etc]
    e) incompetent computer science/engineering education that focuses excessively on 'perfect world' processes and teaches in Java and never teaches on 'real world' processes and optimizations and performance considerations
  • Schnapple 2009-06-23 10:49
    Not my story but my favorite Slashdot comment ever

    Contracting Insanity:

    Posted anonymously, because I don't want to be linked with these people. In the interests of their privacy, some details have been changed.

    I'm an information-security consultant. During the big tech downturn a few years ago, a group in Chicago asked about my services. They didn't trust email or phones, though, so I had to make the trip into Chicago to meet them directly. I told them that it would cost them money to have me head out to Chicago, but they assured me there wouldn't be a problem there.

    In the meeting, they presented me with a cashier's check to cover my initial consultation fee and traveling expenses. Given it was the tech downturn, my initial fee wasn't huge, but between it and travel expenses the check was a nontrivial amount of money. A few hours went by as I did a quick evaluation of their systems. Finally, the preliminary assessment complete, I presented possibilities to my employers.

    They thanked me, but warned: "The people we're concerned about are ... very, very subtle. They're also very underhanded and not bound by law." I asked if we were talking organized crime, and my employers demurred. After about another fifteen minutes of careful "I can't effectively help you if I don't know who you're up against", they confided in me their group's purpose.

    They were a support group for people on the run from the Illuminati.

    ("The Bavarian Illuminati?" I asked, wondering if I'd heard it right. I got a fifteen-minute spiel about how the Illuminati isn't Bavarian, and how the Bavarian Illuminati was a disinformation campaign from the real Illuminati, which wasn't even really called the Illuminati but this group hadn't been able to find its real name yet.)

    After fifteen minutes of listening to these people tell me, quite calmly and quite lucidly, the most wacko paranoiac conspiracy theories I've ever heard, I realized I had to get out of there in a big-ass hurry. So I politely told them "I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable going up against the Bavar... err, the Illuminati. I think you need someone else."

    They said they understood completely. I left the cashier's check on the table, explaining to them that I didn't feel comfortable taking their money if I wasn't willing to help them in their struggle against the, err, Illuminati. I got out of there and headed back home.

    The real reason I didn't take their money was I was afraid word would get out in the information-security community of just who I'd worked for. I wanted to be able to outright deny ever knowing these people, ever meeting these people, ever being party to their insanity.

    There is no Illuminati. There are no runners from the Illuminati. I was never approached by people who wanted to create a secure network for people who were on the run from the Illuminati to communicate with each other over.

    No, I was approached by a bunch of dangerously delusional people.

    But whenever information-security geeks get together and share stories about the weirdest clients we've ever had--at least, the clients we can talk about--well. I've had fellow geeks buying me beers for the last couple of years just on the strength of these wackos. :)


    http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=137983&cid=11542897
  • kastein 2009-06-23 10:57
    Schnapple:
    Not my story but my favorite Slashdot comment ever

    Contracting Insanity:
    story of near miss with tinfoil hatters


    http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=137983&cid=11542897
    Wow, that's pretty crazy. Reminds me of the story about the guy on rentacoder who wanted anti-hacking software written to deal with all sorts of things, and listed that giant zip archive of screenshots "proving" psychopathic, criminally insane hacking.
  • Tom Clarke 2009-06-23 10:58
    Bob:
    I wonder if the author realizes that Smalltalk was among the first object oriented languages and comes much closer to being purely object oriented than any mainstream language in use today? Admittedly, the author makes no direct statements about the relationship between Smalltalk and OOP. The implication, though, is that Smalltalk had named parameters before OOP languages came around, incorrectly supposing that Smalltalk is not itself OO.


    I doubt it. That whole article smacks of "OOP languages suck. Well, okay, that technique makes sense, and obviously that one made life easier, but I don't like that C++ one that isn't really OOP".
  • iToad 2009-06-23 11:00
    Bappi:
    Jeff:
    joelkatz:
    he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower

    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...

    In situations like these, the Nudist Rule applies: the people you get to see naked are not the people you want to see naked.


    The Internet Rule probably also applies: That which has been seen, cannot be unseen.
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 11:13
    Schnapple:
    Not my story but my favorite Slashdot comment ever
    Contracting Insanity:
    There is no Illuminati. There are no runners from the Illuminati. I was never approached by people who wanted to create a secure network for people who were on the run from the Illuminati to communicate with each other over.
    Just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 11:18
    Jeff:
    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...
    Towel on chair == incontinent. Eewww.
  • evilspoons 2009-06-23 11:20
    Code Dependent:
    Jeff:
    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...
    Towel on chair == incontinent. Eewww.


    Or excessively hairy.
  • configurator 2009-06-23 11:21
    I've always wanted to work at a place where the doors slide up.
  • DaveyDaveDave 2009-06-23 11:23
    Seriously:
    OK, has anyone ever done one of those interviews where you get a feeling right away that there is no way in hell I would ever want to work here, but you end up taking the job and liking it? If so, please tell us all about it.

    Otherwise, when your instincts say run... run!


    Well... not quite as bad as some that we've seen here, but I did have an interview in a pub (albeit a nice pub), with a man who'd spent the last 3 years developing his software at his dining room table. I'd been suggested the job by a friend, who had already been offered the job, but turned it down, preferring more stable employment with the local council.

    The interview consisted of the founder of the company demo-ing his software to me, and listing his (pretty big name) clients.

    I didn't have much to lose (at the time I was in my first 'development' job, which, in reality, consisted of going through ridiculous manual processes to release bugfixes, written by other people, to our customers, constantly), the guy seemed pretty intelligent, and the software seemed at least mostly sane, so I went for it. Thankfully, it was a great job, and worked out brilliantly for me, so it's not *necessarily* always best to run...
  • Skizz 2009-06-23 11:26
    So is table orientated software written on paper (possibly using a typewriter), placed on a suitable wooden table, photographed and then uploaded to the computer?

    Skizz
  • Iago 2009-06-23 11:27
    Kazan:
    properly written and optimized OOP code is no slower or faster than properly written and optimized procedural code in the same language.

    The problem is that most code is not properly written.

    Badly-written OOP code tends towards the ugliest end of architectural astronomy: you have AbstractVisitorFactoryWrapperPools and the like, labyrinths of classes wrapped in objects wrapped in abstractions. Thousands of objects being allocated only to be immediately discarded,* every method call going through at least five layers of virtual methods and wrapper methods before it finally reaches some code that does something. It's slow.

    Badly-written procedural code is faster. I'm not saying it's better -- spaghetti is unmaintainable in any language or paradigm -- but it tends to be faster. Sure, it's full of random loops and tortuous pointer arithmetic and typecasts and bugs and bears, oh my, and it's horrible to work with, but in general, it is faster.

    * Yeah, I know, this is "fast" if you have a "good" GC. It's still slow in practice.
  • A Gould 2009-06-23 11:39
    MadtM:

    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    Oh, trust me - there's plenty of restaurants out there that are only open because the health inspector hasn't come to visit yet. What you see in the dining area has no bearing on what's going on in the kitchen.

    Be afraid.
  • AndyL 2009-06-23 11:47
    A Gould:
    MadtM:

    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    Oh, trust me - there's plenty of restaurants out there that are only open because the health inspector hasn't come to visit yet. What you see in the dining area has no bearing on what's going on in the kitchen.

    Be afraid.
    I think the point was that the large majority of restaurants fail to make a profit and go out of business. Usually within a year.
  • EatenByAGrue 2009-06-23 11:49
    Schnapple:
    Not my story but my favorite Slashdot comment ever

    Contracting Insanity:


    There is no Illuminati. There are no runners from the Illuminati. I was never approached by people who wanted to create a secure network for people who were on the run from the Illuminati to communicate with each other over.



    I think what he really meant was:
    "There is fnord no Illuminati. There fnord are no runners fnord from the Illuminati fnord. I was fnord never approached by people fnord who wanted to create fnord a secure network fnord for people who fnord were on the run from the fnord Illuminati to fnord communicate with each other fnord over."
  • blah 2009-06-23 12:04
    Shame on you Alex. The girl ran off from an Austrian company and you didn't make her part with an "I'll be back."
  • RogerC 2009-06-23 12:08
    From the article:
    “Whooooa there,” Phil stooped me, “we don’t do oop here.”

    And so, among the other silly things that Phil did, he contradicted himself all in a single sentence by using the OO-form of "stop" to interrupt Drew.
  • Smash King 2009-06-23 12:19
    Marvin the Martian:
    Who would want to work in a DOOM level? Thousands of geeks that came of age in the mid-nineties, that's who!
    "I'll work for you, but only if I can use IDDQD and IDKFA. Oh, and IDDT too, because I always thought it would be cool to become immaterial whenever I want to."

    Scary part: I didn't look the codes up. I still remember them
  • Janis 2009-06-23 12:24
    IDDT was to reveal map and second time to reveal where are monsters.

    I think you're referring to IDCLIP...
  • squeem 2009-06-23 12:25
    Code Dependent:
    Towel on chair == incontinent. Eewww.


    Not incontinent, just moist.
  • blah 2009-06-23 12:30
    Rudy:
    Fregas:

    I'm not agreeing with everything Mr. Oopbad has to say, but in 1981 I could type as fast as I wanted and even if the computer fell behind it would eventually catch up without losing a single keystroke. Now I find myself waiting for windows to gain focus and repaint, waiting for text boxes to get an active cursor, and interrupted by annoying pop-ups. This is not now and then. This is constantly, all day.

    Even though the hardware is about a billion times faster, the software has made things slower. I spend a lot more time waiting on my computer than I used to.


    1. What does this have to do with OOP?
    2. DNFTT
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 12:31
    squeem:
    Code Dependent:
    Towel on chair == incontinent. Eewww.
    Not incontinent, just moist.
    Good point! ...assuming we're still talking about the wife...
  • frieddan 2009-06-23 12:32
    I answered an add on the mailing list of a local small technology business mailing list for a CIO. After following up on my resume with a phone call he said he'd like to talk to me in person, but since he didn't have an office we should meet at a coffee shop near one of the local universities. In the interview, along with talking about what he wanted to build, he managed to claim to be (at various times), a Meteorologist, an Engineer (not computers), a medical doctor, the head of an HMO, and a consultant who had worked in Zimbabwe, Mexico, and Switzerland, and that he lived part of the year in Bali.

    The shining lights of the interview were that I would have final say on technology and the magical "investors".

    A month later we were still talking (he'd been out of town), but suddenly there were questions about whether the investment money was going to come through or not, it was already overdue apparently.

    It wasn't until out third meeting that he actually repeated a story about his life.

    I took the job... damned if everything he had said wasn't true. And when the investors tried to ask for better terms he ran em off and self-funded.

    Best decision I ever made.

    To be fair, I might not have gone that far if I hadn't realized after our first interview that I'd actually met him before at a networking event (for the same organization whose mailing list he had posted on) several years prior where he had described the project that he was doing preliminary work on.
  • frieddan 2009-06-23 12:34
    frieddan:
    I answered an add on the mailing list of a local small technology business mailing list for a CIO. ....


    Oops, should have been in response to

    Seriously:
    OK, has anyone ever done one of those interviews where you get a feeling right away that there is no way in hell I would ever want to work here, but you end up taking the job and liking it? If so, please tell us all about it.

    Otherwise, when your instincts say run... run!
  • Smash King 2009-06-23 12:38
    whoops. My bad.
    But OTOH, that is clearly proof that I didn't look them up.

    "Hey, I thought it through and decided I don't need IDDT anymore, because I can use google maps or my GPS. I wanna have IDCLIP instead."
  • Neil 2009-06-23 12:52
    Tim:
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)....

    Could this story have gone through the "Re-write to make it a little more fluid, less dramatic but sounding better" machine?

    Ah, I wondered the exact same thing - who this mysterious Tim was and when he would start shooting fireballs.
  • delenit 2009-06-23 12:56
    Smash King:
    Marvin the Martian:
    Who would want to work in a DOOM level? Thousands of geeks that came of age in the mid-nineties, that's who!
    "I'll work for you, but only if I can use IDDQD and IDKFA. Oh, and IDDT too, because I always thought it would be cool to become immaterial whenever I want to."

    Scary part: I didn't look the codes up. I still remember them


    Is that scary? Why? I remember lots of cheatcodes from way back. ;) I also even remember a savecode for an ancient NES game. >.< Thats borderline scary though.
  • Sarah Smith 2009-06-23 13:02
    I went for an interview for a Windows admin position, and at the time I had 10 years experience with networks and Windows. After meeting the three members of the interview panel, I had the oddest experience I've ever had in an interview. For some reason, my mind just -blanked-. One of the interviewers seemed outright hostile, and my reaction was "this isn't going to work out". I tried to answer their questions, but it was hopeless. I got up and left.
  • Alan 2009-06-23 13:03
    delenit:
    Smash King:
    Marvin the Martian:
    Who would want to work in a DOOM level? Thousands of geeks that came of age in the mid-nineties, that's who!
    "I'll work for you, but only if I can use IDDQD and IDKFA. Oh, and IDDT too, because I always thought it would be cool to become immaterial whenever I want to."

    Scary part: I didn't look the codes up. I still remember them


    Is that scary? Why? I remember lots of cheatcodes from way back. ;) I also even remember a savecode for an ancient NES game. >.< Thats borderline scary though.


    fluxcapacitoristhepower?
  • Matt 2009-06-23 13:10
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.

    Seriously, you have no idea the number of small-time idiots I've seen that shouldn't stay in business yet do, and manage to turn a hefty profit despite cutting all kinds of corners and not even understanding WTF their business is.

    I find it very ironic that scam artists stay in business and are successful while honest people routinely end up desperate for income.


    You sir live in an alternate reality. Scummy businesses don't last very long. Ff they do last, they certainly don't thrive. And it DOES take a lot of hard work to build up a successful business.

    There are always exceptions. They don't disprove the rule.

    My question is, have you ever started a business of your own? You sound like an arm-chair quarterback.
  • MadtM 2009-06-23 13:12
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    MadtM:
    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    A restaurant is a different story since yes, it requires a certain level of decency or it can be shut down due to health regulations, but haven't you ever seen Kitchen Nightmares? There are a lot of restauranteurs out there who have no idea how to run a restaurant, either.


    This is very true, oh Wise OWK. But many, faced with competition, also close for that reason. And because there is no government bailout. BTW, I love Kitchen Nightmares.
  • Adam V 2009-06-23 13:16
    delenit:
    Is that scary? Why? I remember lots of cheatcodes from way back. ;) I also even remember a savecode for an ancient NES game. >.< Thats borderline scary though.


    007-373-5963?
    JUSTINBAILEY------------?
  • Zerbs 2009-06-23 13:25
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    The real WTF is that someone is still using GeoCities and expects people to take him seriously. Personally I think that object oriented programming has its place, and so do other methodologies, and they can co-exist.
  • Anon 2009-06-23 13:40
    I am going through resumes to interview for a dev position where I work, and recently got a little gem of a resume, though I suspect this is far from the norm - it's just the first that I've received: The cumulative education and experience of the applicant is as follows (cut'n paste cause I am certain that the applicant doesn't visit thedailywtf)

    Forklift Operator 2007
    * Obtained certificate in the safe operation of forklifts
    Red Cross 2007
    * Current Standard First Aid
  • Your Name 2009-06-23 13:48
    The interview started with awkward small talk – they didn’t like sports, they didn’t know what the weather was like, and they had no plans for the upcoming summer months – which lead into a rather long moment of uncomfortable silence.


    And that is why he failed. Real developers often don't even know what day of the week it is. Questions like "how are you?" are difficult if not impossible to answer. "All systems nominal" would be perfectly correct, but socially unacceptable.

    The weather is always a somewhat dry 68F, sports would be so much easier if both teams would cooperate, and ultimately is a modern substitute for tribal warfare. Cheering for something remotely without having even a remote chance of influence on the process is similar to shouting in elation every time the second hand passes through 5 on a clock. And since every day is exactly the same, there are no summer plans.

    So no, the interviewee was quickly forgotten. And if you aren't making a mess, you aren't accomplishing anything.
  • Red Cross Fork Lift Operator #74 2009-06-23 13:55
    Anon:
    I am going through resumes to interview for a dev position where I work, and recently got a little gem of a resume, though I suspect this is far from the norm - it's just the first that I've received: The cumulative education and experience of the applicant is as follows (cut'n paste cause I am certain that the applicant doesn't visit thedailywtf)

    Forklift Operator 2007
    * Obtained certificate in the safe operation of forklifts
    Red Cross 2007
    * Current Standard First Aid
    So what you are saying is I didn't get the job?
  • spike 2009-06-23 14:18
    Who the hell is Tim? You know there is a problem when you have to stop and re-read the damn article multiple times just to follow along. The tim walked in and shat on the floor.
  • IT Girl 2009-06-23 14:37
    MadtM:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    MadtM:
    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    A restaurant is a different story since yes, it requires a certain level of decency or it can be shut down due to health regulations, but haven't you ever seen Kitchen Nightmares? There are a lot of restauranteurs out there who have no idea how to run a restaurant, either.


    This is very true, oh Wise OWK. But many, faced with competition, also close for that reason. And because there is no government bailout. BTW, I love Kitchen Nightmares.


    The entire point to Kitchen Nightmares is that if they don't change they way they do business, they aren't going to be in business long (and many of them aren't, if you watch the follow up).
  • IT Girl 2009-06-23 14:39
    kmarsh:
    I would comment, but it's just too windy right now.


    Against my better judgement, I'm making a comment because it's too windy to get to work.
  • Vechni 2009-06-23 14:45
    joelkatz:
    I once lost a job (long story) and decided to look in the newspaper just on the off chance I could find something awesome. I found a company with a really cool name and called to see if I could get an interview. The guy asked me to come over immediately if I could, so I did.

    It was a house. I walked up to the door and it was slightly opened. I said "hello" and a deep voice boomed "come on in". I did, and followed the voice to a dirty, dark office. At a computer sat a rather large man who was almost naked, sitting on a chair covered with a towel.

    He invited me to sit down on the chair across from him (also at a computer, but it was facing towards him instead), also covered with a towel. After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower, and started a proper job search. No ... just kidding. I took the job on the condition I could work from home. It lasted about 11 days. Worst job I ever had.


    obviously... whenever people talk on the phone they always imagine the person on the other end based on past experiences... so if you never have to see him, you still sort of have to.
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 15:09
    IT Girl:
    kmarsh:
    I would comment, but it's just too windy right now.
    Against my better judgement, I'm making a comment because it's too windy to get to work.
    I went into the men's room to wash my face, but it was too windy in there.
  • Kazan 2009-06-23 15:14
    Iago:
    Kazan:
    properly written and optimized OOP code is no slower or faster than properly written and optimized procedural code in the same language.

    The problem is that most code is not properly written.

    Badly-written OOP code tends towards the ugliest end of architectural astronomy: you have AbstractVisitorFactoryWrapperPools and the like, labyrinths of classes wrapped in objects wrapped in abstractions. Thousands of objects being allocated only to be immediately discarded,* every method call going through at least five layers of virtual methods and wrapper methods before it finally reaches some code that does something. It's slow.

    Badly-written procedural code is faster. I'm not saying it's better -- spaghetti is unmaintainable in any language or paradigm -- but it tends to be faster. Sure, it's full of random loops and tortuous pointer arithmetic and typecasts and bugs and bears, oh my, and it's horrible to work with, but in general, it is faster.

    * Yeah, I know, this is "fast" if you have a "good" GC. It's still slow in practice.


    just a small nitpick on virtual methods.

    if you have a pure virtual base class that defines some functions.. and then you're working with the great-great-great-great grandchild of that PVBC. you're not interfacing with the virtual functions in the generations of classes between them. it goes straight to the GGGG GC's implementation.

    The virtual function table is pretty slick that way.

    but yes.. otherwise you're describing an antipattern I have to deal with everyday: the YoYo*


    * which is only an antipattern when DOCUMENTATION IS MISSING

    PS: OOP and pointer arithmetic are not incompatable... plus pointer arithmetic isn't painful. I don't understand how people have problems with pointer arithmetic. it's pretty straight forward.
  • tOmcOlins 2009-06-23 16:13
    OOP THERE IT IS
  • bwz 2009-06-23 17:18
    tOmcOlins:
    OOP THERE IT IS


    public class Oop
    {
    public static void main(String[] args)
    {
    System.out.println("It's here!");
    }
    }

  • Bim Job 2009-06-23 17:21
    Code Dependent:
    Tim:
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)...
    Tim was inadvertently from the following line:
    The atmosphere of silence and despair was overpowering, and no-one seemed to be around. That is, until and Bob appeared.
    It's deeper than that:
    TarquinWJ:
    You would have made a complete sentence, but the wind kept blowing your fingers off the keyboard?
    Tim is the Missing.

    "The my friend, is blowing in the. Answer, young Jedi, in the blowing is."

    I understand that this is easily implemented in small talk. Just so long as you avoid the Britney Spears clause, "oop, I lost my."

    Anyhow, can you seriously imagine a world where somebody called "Tim Dylan" exists?

    Or, to quote Andy Garfunkel:

    "Deep in the sound ... of Despair Was Overpowering."

    I seem to recall that this is when a young Dustin Hoffman takes a suicide leap off of the ten metre board and honks the plastic aquabot up his schnozzle.
  • Tim 2009-06-23 17:29
    Tim:
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)....

    Could this story have gone through the "Re-write to make it a little more fluid, less dramatic but sounding better" machine?

    Me!!!
  • Mr A 2009-06-23 17:30
    I turned up at one interview to be told that they would be running me through a few aptitude tests and "it shouldn't take longer than 8 to 10 hours to complete".

    When I replied "you must be f****ng joking", they seemed hurt and bemused. I ran.

    I wouldn't mind, but it was only for a junior position in a small 20 person company doing insurance software.
  • MetaMan 2009-06-23 17:31
    Just ask yourself, what would and Megan Fox do in a situation like this?
  • hail, the mighty 2009-06-23 17:31
    Bim Job:
    Code Dependent:
    Tim:
    Am I the only one who read the Doomed story and wondered who the hell Tim was? You have an introduction to a managing director, who during a tour, "Bob appeared". And then goes on to describing Tim, and Bob, with an interview that starts with small talk (neither of whom were proficient in)...
    Tim was inadvertently from the following line:
    The atmosphere of silence and despair was overpowering, and no-one seemed to be around. That is, until and Bob appeared.
    It's deeper than that:
    TarquinWJ:
    You would have made a complete sentence, but the wind kept blowing your fingers off the keyboard?
    Tim is the Missing.

    "The my friend, is blowing in the. Answer, young Jedi, in the blowing is."

    I understand that this is easily implemented in small talk. Just so long as you avoid the Britney Spears clause, "oop, I lost my."

    Anyhow, can you seriously imagine a world where somebody called "Tim Dylan" exists?

    Or, to quote Andy Garfunkel:

    "Deep in the sound ... of Despair Was Overpowering."

    I seem to recall that this is when a young Dustin Hoffman takes a suicide leap off of the ten metre board and honks the plastic aquabot up his schnozzle.
    SpectateSwamp?
    no, couldn't be... for the catchphrase is missing....
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 17:36
    Bim Job:
    It's deeper than that:
    "The my friend, is blowing in the. Answer, young Jedi, in the blowing is."

    I understand that this is easily implemented in small talk. Just so long as you avoid the Britney Spears clause, "oop, I lost my."

    Anyhow, can you seriously imagine a world where somebody called "Tim Dylan" exists?

    Or, to quote Andy Garfunkel:

    "Deep in the sound ... of Despair Was Overpowering."

    I seem to recall that this is when a young Dustin Hoffman takes a suicide leap off of the ten metre board and honks the plastic aquabot up his schnozzle.
    Well, don't stop now:

    Kenneth Grahame: The in the Willows
    Donovan: "Might as well try and catch the"
    Marshall Tucker Band: "Runnin' Like the"
    Gogi Grant: "The next of kin to the wayward"
    Dylan/Hendrix: "And the began to howl"

    Relax and un.

    Oh, windy saints go marchin' in...
  • Bim Job 2009-06-23 17:43
    hail, the mighty:
    SpectateSwamp?
    no, couldn't be... for the catchphrase is missing....
    What the fuck would I be doing with a catch-phrase? Just look at the name.

    What does not kill us, makes us stumble around with a lump on our head, wondering why God chose to give us a particularly painful hangover.
  • Scout 2009-06-23 17:47
    jammy:
    I remember when I was looking evernwhere for an interivew. Good job I met and Bob.


    I always thought "A Bob for a job" meant something, um, different
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 17:48
    Bim Job:
    What does not kill us, makes us stumble around with a lump on our head
    How many of you are sharing that head?
  • Bim Job 2009-06-23 17:50
    Code Dependent:
    Well, don't stop now:

    Kenneth Grahame: The in the Willows
    Donovan: "Might as well try and catch the"
    Marshall Tucker Band: "Runnin' Like the"
    Gogi Grant: "The next of kin to the wayward"
    Dylan/Hendrix: "And the began to howl"

    Relax and un.

    Oh, windy saints go marchin' in...
    What, all this atmospherics and no CCR?

    Let a little rain into your soul, man.

    However, I believe the lyrics you yearn for are:

    "Windy Red Red Robin comes Tim Tim Timming Along..." It gets round to throbbing at some point, but I think it's wise to leave it at that.

    Quite appropriate, really.
  • Bim Job 2009-06-23 17:51
    Code Dependent:
    Bim Job:
    What does not kill us, makes us stumble around with a lump on our head
    How many of you are sharing that head?
    About three at the last count. But don't worry. It's multi-core.
  • j0k3r 2009-06-23 17:53
    @Deprecated:
    Seriously, I would have told Ray that "OOP is the underlying core technology to ASP.NET, and Phil is a primadonna idiot", and then walked out. Or something to that effect.

    Even better if Phil is still in the room.


    Really...OOP is a "core technology"? I would have walked you out if you told me OOP is a "core technology".

    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
  • Lets not start this again 2009-06-23 17:54
    blah:
    Shame on you Alex. The girl ran off from an Austrian company and you didn't make her part with an "I'll be back."


    She was scared of the Dingos...
  • AC 2009-06-23 17:59
    evilspoons:
    Code Dependent:
    Jeff:
    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...
    Towel on chair == incontinent. Eewww.


    Or excessively hairy.


    Thanks so much for putting that image in my head. I think I just lost the will to live.
  • Leak 2009-06-23 17:59
    Yeah, well - I guess the last company going teets-oop was divine retribution, then? *ducks*

    Also, I really, really doubt the first story - if that bit of wind is a problem you can't be Austrian. It's currently pouring outside AND totally windy...

    np: Aesop Rock - Coffee (with John Darnielle) (None Shall Pass)
  • Jase 2009-06-23 18:00
    Matt:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.

    Seriously, you have no idea the number of small-time idiots I've seen that shouldn't stay in business yet do, and manage to turn a hefty profit despite cutting all kinds of corners and not even understanding WTF their business is.

    I find it very ironic that scam artists stay in business and are successful while honest people routinely end up desperate for income.


    You sir live in an alternate reality. Scummy businesses don't last very long. Ff they do last, they certainly don't thrive. And it DOES take a lot of hard work to build up a successful business.

    There are always exceptions. They don't disprove the rule.

    My question is, have you ever started a business of your own? You sound like an arm-chair quarterback.


    Just waiting for 10 people to respond to those millions of emails I sent out....
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 18:01
    Bim Job:
    Let a little rain into your soul, man.
    If it keeps on rainin', levees goin' to break
    Windy levee breaks I'll have no place to stay
  • Tim 2009-06-23 18:03
    spike:
    Who the hell is Tim? You know there is a problem when you have to stop and re-read the damn article multiple times just to follow along. The tim walked in and shat on the floor.


    Hello...Here I am
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-23 18:04
    j0k3r:
    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
    And here you are on the second page of comments, weighing in weightlessly rather than posting something worth reading.
  • Arthur D 2009-06-23 18:26
    joelkatz:
    ... At a computer sat a rather large man who was almost naked, sitting on a chair covered with a towel.

    He invited me to sit down on the chair across from him (also at a computer, but it was facing towards him instead), also covered with a towel. After I did, he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    ...


    At least they had their towels.
  • Jules 2009-06-23 18:48
    > Oblivious to the interview, Tim froze for a few seconds
    > and stared intently at an invisible point about two feet
    > from his face. Suddenly, he scrunched his face like he'd
    > eaten the sourest thing in the world. It was almost as if
    > his face was collapsing inwards.


    Sounds like the sort of menacing, unsettling scene David Lynch excels in. Mentally, I cast Crispin Glover as Tim.
  • Martin 2009-06-23 19:19
    I went on an interview that went very well. The work was in a field that I knew and loved, the project manager and I hit it off right away, and the pay was good. Then the manager took me down the hall to meet the other engineers and programmers. The first one I spotted was the asshole my girlfriend had just dumped me for.

    I then gently explained to the manager that under the circumstances I could not take the job. When he heard the names, he realized that my ex-GF had just been hired in the adjacent department and agreed with my decision. He then gave me a couple of leads at other companies.

    In the end, everything worked out. The asshole and my ex-GF got married, he legally adopted her two kids, they got divorced and he got stuck with child support! :-)
  • todds 2009-06-23 19:42
    Adriano:
    Argh. QWERTY. Serves me right for using Dvorak.


    What the hell? W and U are no where close to each other on Dvorak.
  • Xythar 2009-06-23 19:51
    Lets not start this again:
    blah:
    Shame on you Alex. The girl ran off from an Austrian company and you didn't make her part with an "I'll be back."


    She was scared of the Dingos...


    The real WTF is not being able to tell "Austria" and "Australia" apart.
  • christophocles 2009-06-23 20:06
    IDDT was to reveal map and second time to reveal where are monsters.

    I think you're referring to IDCLIP...


    We're talking about Doom, not Doom ][. The code he is referring to is IDSPISPOPD (and no, I did not look that one up, either :)
  • ContraCorners 2009-06-23 20:34
    MetaMan:
    Just ask yourself, who would Megan Fox do in a situation like this?

    FTFY
  • j0k3r 2009-06-23 23:13
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
    And here you are on the second page of comments, weighing in weightlessly rather than posting something worth reading.

    And here you are on the third page of comments, weighing in weightlessly on my comment rather than posting something worth reading.

    That's how I roll... If you don't like my opinion, then don't read it. This is my registered username so feel free to skip my comments next time.
  • AC 2009-06-24 01:57
    You say introvert like it's a bad thing :(
  • BinaryDad 2009-06-24 03:42
    Regarding the "too windy" interviewee; if the office is in Vienna and in the Donau City, I can understand completely. Even the mildest of windy days can seem like a hurricane in that place.

    In fact, there have been quite a few people seriously injured after being picked up by the wind rushing through those high buildings and slammed against walls, or thrown down steps. Every day that I've been there to take our baby girl to the pediatrician for routine check-ups, it's always been a major battle just to get from the u-bahn station.

    I'm not sure I would want to work there either until they install some wind breaks by the Donau.

  • 4merK0d34 2009-06-24 03:48
    configurator:
    I've always wanted to work at a place where the doors slide up.


    ROFL! That is absolutely precious! I'm going to remember to use that one.
  • Lee K-T 2009-06-24 04:43
    Martin:
    I went on an interview that went very well. The work was in a field that I knew and loved, the project manager and I hit it off right away, and the pay was good. Then the manager took me down the hall to meet the other engineers and programmers. The first one I spotted was the asshole my girlfriend had just dumped me for.

    I then gently explained to the manager that under the circumstances I could not take the job. When he heard the names, he realized that my ex-GF had just been hired in the adjacent department and agreed with my decision. He then gave me a couple of leads at other companies.

    In the end, everything worked out. The asshole and my ex-GF got married, he legally adopted her two kids, they got divorced and he got stuck with child support! :-)


    Dating a girl that already has two kids? WTF!
  • tdittmar 2009-06-24 05:08
    Xythar:
    Lets not start this again:
    blah:
    Shame on you Alex. The girl ran off from an Austrian company and you didn't make her part with an "I'll be back."


    She was scared of the Dingos...


    The real WTF is not being able to tell "Austria" and "Australia" apart.


    The real WTF is your sarcasm detector...
  • boh 2009-06-24 05:09

    I am going through resumes to interview for a dev position where I work, and recently got a little gem of a resume, though I suspect this is far from the norm - it's just the first that I've received: The cumulative education and experience of the applicant is as follows (cut'n paste cause I am certain that the applicant doesn't visit thedailywtf)

    Forklift Operator 2007
    * Obtained certificate in the safe operation of forklifts
    Red Cross 2007
    * Current Standard First Aid


    I'll just translate this resume to standard post-Internet age English:

    * Watched "Gabelstaplerfahrer Klaus" on YouTube
  • gretel 2009-06-24 05:48
    I remember zis one time going for an interview in Austria and ze place voz at ze bottom of ze mountain and I voz walking to ze building and ze vind voz sooo strong zat it blew me back to my car and I couldn't make ze interview - crazy huh?
  • Dlareg 2009-06-24 06:27
    The best cheatcode I remember is "CHEATERCHEATERWIMP" it is a perfect description of what you want to do.
    I believe it was in Decent.
  • jammy 2009-06-24 06:31
    j0k3r:
    That's how I roll... If you don't like my opinion, then don't read it.


    But how am I supposed to know what your opinion is before I read it..?
  • FlameBait 2009-06-24 06:33
    Kazan:
    properly written and optimized OOP code is no slower or faster than properly written and optimized procedural code in the same language.

    Bad code [windows] is just bad code.


    PS: The core WinAPI is still proceedural, even if microsoft likes hiding it under OOP wrappers (MFC) and "managed code" [virtual machine] encumbered OOP wrappers (.Net) .


    The increasing hardware demands of windows have to do with
    a) Inefficient design
    b) bug for bug legacy compatibility
    c) WinSxS [vista harddrive space vampire that also slows program loads.. but not appreciably on my vista machine]
    d) multimedia bloating apps [web browsers, etc]
    e) incompetent computer science/engineering education that focuses excessively on 'perfect world' processes and teaches in Java and never teaches on 'real world' processes and optimizations and performance considerations


    I know this is just a plane rant but I have to comment on this. :).

    Your probably beloved Linux/MacOSX uses C + self written OO wrappers around procedural code, much like Windows. Linux has bloating media apps like web browsers aswell (I'd call them essential but hey everyone's a winner here).

    Linux is burdened with the same legacy complexities.


    incompetent computer science/engineering education that focuses excessively on 'perfect world' processes and teaches in Java and never teaches on 'real world' processes and optimizations and performance considerations


    I have no clue how that has todo with any Operating system, but In general this is a good way to learn people things, first get it done properly then find the bottlenecks (if any) and fix them using special tricks and codes. Remember that about 10% of the code accounts for 90% of the run time. So you only have to adjust those small pieces of code for real world optimizations to get stuff done.

    (note: I use Windows and Linux and from my point of view the same 'problems' arrise in both).
  • Steve 2009-06-24 06:53
    I've often said, no more than half-jokingly, that the rollout of each generation of PC hardware has to wait for Microsoft to bloat Windows enough to soak up all of the new power.
  • Severity One 2009-06-24 07:08
    Jeff:
    joelkatz:
    he volunteered that the towels are there because he and his wife frequently work naked.

    I thanked him, left, went home, took a shower

    Did you at least stick around long enough to check out his wife? I mean, umm...

    Well, he did take a shower, after all.
  • Georgem 2009-06-24 07:23
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    The author doesn't seem to know the difference between persistent and transient data. It's not like *all* data is held, forever, as in-memory objects. Problem with anti-anything evangelists is, the number of straw men they build
  • Georgem 2009-06-24 07:27
    Georgem:
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    The author doesn't seem to know the difference between persistent and transient data. It's not like *all* data is held, forever, as in-memory objects. Problem with anti-anything evangelists is, the number of straw men they build


    Sorry, I of course meant that the author has chosen to ignore the difference between persistent and transient data, in a pre-scient and highly successful attempt to kindly prove my second point.
  • ChrisB 2009-06-24 07:58
    Is this site really hosted on a server provided by HIV Elocity?
  • maybe 2009-06-24 08:02
    FlameBait:
    I have no clue how that has todo with any Operating system, but In general this is a good way to learn people things, first get it done properly then find the bottlenecks (if any) and fix them using special tricks and codes. Remember that about 10% of the code accounts for 90% of the run time. So you only have to adjust those small pieces of code for real world optimizations to get stuff done.


    That depends, the best performance bonuses come from design not from fiddling with the code. If you can modify the design so various things that involved 10 level deep function calls or other complicated nonsense can be expressed as only 2 method deep calls instead, then the performance will be massively better then just building the 10-level deep solution and hoping (praying, more like) you can bash into 'tolerable' execution speed later. Of course, on the other hand, the profiler with 10% does 90% rule should still be applied to the finished product after you designed it to be fast and discovered it is not quite fast enough.

    The problem with mantras like "premature optimization is the root of all evil" is that the meaning gets lost in zealotry. There's a difference between premature optimization and quality engineering -- developers really need to learn what that difference is.
  • Misha 2009-06-24 08:05
    MadtM:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.


    Yeah? Try running a restaurant.


    McDonalds?
  • Severity One 2009-06-24 08:47
    FlameBait:
    Your probably beloved Linux/MacOSX uses C + self written OO wrappers around procedural code, much like Windows. Linux has bloating media apps like web browsers aswell (I'd call them essential but hey everyone's a winner here).

    Linux is burdened with the same legacy complexities.
    But who says he's not running BeOS? Ha! Then your entire argument goes out the window.

    OK OK OK, so at the last count, approximately twelve people were still using BeOS, but he could be one of them.
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-24 09:05
    Martin:
    In the end, everything worked out. The asshole and my ex-GF got married, he legally adopted her two kids, they got divorced and he got stuck with child support! :-)
    Ah! I love a story with a happy ending. :D
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-24 09:14
    j0k3r:
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
    And here you are on the second page of comments, weighing in weightlessly rather than posting something worth reading.

    And here you are on the third page of comments, weighing in weightlessly on my comment rather than posting something worth reading.

    That's how I roll... If you don't like my opinion, then don't read it. This is my registered username so feel free to skip my comments next time.
    On the contrary, your opinion was a useless rant. My highlighting of fact was a neighborly attempt to help you ease over the hump from shallow, self-absorbed tin man to contributing member of society.

    Hang with it, man. Eventually you'll get a clue. We hope.
  • OldHand 2009-06-24 10:56
    Code Dependent:
    Schnapple:
    Not my story but my favorite Slashdot comment ever
    Contracting Insanity:
    There is no Illuminati. There are no runners from the Illuminati. I was never approached by people who wanted to create a secure network for people who were on the run from the Illuminati to communicate with each other over.
    Just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.


    I am being persecuted by people who call me paranoid.
  • Bill Donovan 2009-06-24 11:28
    Gotta watch out for those windy parking lots. Still, I'm sure it counts as an effort to seek employment while collecting pogey (Canada), the dole (UK), what do they call it in the US, and in Europe?
  • Code Dependent 2009-06-24 12:12
    Bill Donovan:
    ...pogey (Canada), the dole (UK), what do they call it in the US...?
    Officially, welfare. Colloquially, bloodsucking.
  • kastein 2009-06-24 12:14
    Dlareg:
    The best cheatcode I remember is "CHEATERCHEATERWIMP" it is a perfect description of what you want to do.
    I believe it was in Decent.
    I was a huge fan of /IAMNOGOODCHEATER in the old MS-DOS game Stellar 7. Amusingly I actually discovered a level hack on that game while bored (this was before I had internet access, back in 2000 or so)... if you picked out the most powerful missiles and repeatedly shot one of the map obstacles on the first level, it would turn into an end-of-level warp gate that would bring you to the fourth level. The same thing happened on the fourth level, which would bring you to the eighth level... on the twelfth level (iirc), you fought the boss, so you could win the game in something like five minutes. Good luck getting on the high scores chart with almost no enemies destroyed though :)

    Addendum (2009-06-24 12:27):
    Severity One:
    But who says he's not running BeOS? Ha! Then your entire argument goes out the window.

    OK OK OK, so at the last count, approximately twelve people were still using BeOS, but he could be one of them.
    Don't forget the four Amiga fans (who make more noise than a hundred Linux users)... and is anyone still using that OS Henry Massalin wrote? http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:Belh2gmbC4UJ:www.cs.columbia.edu/~library/TR-repository/reports/reports-1991/cucs-005-91.ps.gz+qua+os+massalin&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
  • lfj 2009-06-24 12:16
    Severity One:
    FlameBait:
    Your probably beloved Linux/MacOSX uses C + self written OO wrappers around procedural code, much like Windows. Linux has bloating media apps like web browsers aswell (I'd call them essential but hey everyone's a winner here).

    Linux is burdened with the same legacy complexities.
    But who says he's not running BeOS? Ha! Then your entire argument goes out the window.

    OK OK OK, so at the last count, approximately twelve people were still using BeOS, but he could be one of them.


    I use Haiku, you insensitive clod!
  • damn, um.. 2009-06-24 12:18
    Spectre:
    "evernwhere"? How can you make a typo like this?
    What do mean a typo?
    Doesn't evernbody use that word?
  • Fregas 2009-06-24 15:06
    I don't think that has much to do with OOP or the abstraction layers of our programming languages, although I supposed it might. I think its more about the fact that we're asking software to do much more complicated things. Look at windows. Layer upon layer upon layer of features while trying to make everything backwards compatible.
  • Franz Kafka 2009-06-24 15:29
    maybe:
    FlameBait:
    I have no clue how that has todo with any Operating system, but In general this is a good way to learn people things, first get it done properly then find the bottlenecks (if any) and fix them using special tricks and codes. Remember that about 10% of the code accounts for 90% of the run time. So you only have to adjust those small pieces of code for real world optimizations to get stuff done.


    That depends, the best performance bonuses come from design not from fiddling with the code. If you can modify the design so various things that involved 10 level deep function calls or other complicated nonsense can be expressed as only 2 method deep calls instead, then the performance will be massively better then just building the 10-level deep solution and hoping (praying, more like) you can bash into 'tolerable' execution speed later. Of course, on the other hand, the profiler with 10% does 90% rule should still be applied to the finished product after you designed it to be fast and discovered it is not quite fast enough.

    The problem with mantras like "premature optimization is the root of all evil" is that the meaning gets lost in zealotry. There's a difference between premature optimization and quality engineering -- developers really need to learn what that difference is.


    10 levels deep of function calls is annoying and could impact performance, but it's not a given. Before assuming that the problem is the call stack, measure the code to see what it actually does.
  • stuck 2009-06-24 15:56
    Actually, I was stupid enough to do that. The job actually was pretty cool considering that the boss wasn't around much and the other programmers were cool. Unfortunately a few months later the paychecks ceased to flow.
  • KB 2009-06-24 17:40
    You are using the wrong OS, and this is coming from a Windows guy. But I believe in using the right tool for the job and if you are a super fast typer/coder Windows is NOT it. Try DSL-N, which if you have more than 128Mb of RAM(and who doesn't nowadays) will load the entire OS into RAM which makes response times just unreal. I have a 733MHz with 384Mb running DSL that has better response time than a 3Ghz XP box. Just use the right tool for the job: for games and flashy stuff, use Windows. For when you need to get work done yesterday, use DSL-N. The only Windows I have seen with anywhere close to that response time is XP X64, but you have to do as I did and build a box for it as OEMs rarely have 64bit drivers even today. By contrast DSL-N will run on pretty much anything.
  • Lamah 2009-06-24 17:46
    Tim:
    spike:
    Who the hell is Tim? You know there is a problem when you have to stop and re-read the damn article multiple times just to follow along. The tim walked in and shat on the floor.


    Hello...Here I am


    Some call me... Tim?
  • Captain Oblivious 2009-06-25 01:21
    terrukallan:
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    An excerpt from that page that caught my eye:

    Named parameters can optionally make routines very Smalltalk-like. Some people erroneously think that OOP invented named parameters.

    I wonder if the author realizes that Smalltalk was among the first object oriented languages and comes much closer to being purely object oriented than any mainstream language in use today?


    That was his point. SmallTalk didn't invent named parameters. That was a Lisp invention that got carried over into the first Lisp object systems (and through there, into SmallTalk)

    An object system is just a fancy combinator that knows to do look up in a hierarchy of function definitions. But it is VERY OFTEN not the right combinator to use to solve a problem. So you end up using "patterns" to get around the limitations of the combinator. Ugh. Normalize and combine, for god's sake.
  • j0k3r 2009-06-25 03:02
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
    And here you are on the second page of comments, weighing in weightlessly rather than posting something worth reading.

    And here you are on the third page of comments, weighing in weightlessly on my comment rather than posting something worth reading.

    That's how I roll... If you don't like my opinion, then don't read it. This is my registered username so feel free to skip my comments next time.
    On the contrary, your opinion was a useless rant. My highlighting of fact was a neighborly attempt to help you ease over the hump from shallow, self-absorbed tin man to contributing member of society.

    Hang with it, man. Eventually you'll get a clue. We hope.

    So clever... you are and your ePenis are huge. I can only hope to aspire to be as much of a contributing member as you some day.

    I have to say, I am flattered that you care so much about my personal situation though. I'll be waiting with bated breath for your response.
  • fnord 2009-06-25 14:04
    Your Name:
    The interview started with awkward small talk – they didn’t like sports, they didn’t know what the weather was like, and they had no plans for the upcoming summer months – which lead into a rather long moment of uncomfortable silence.


    And that is why he failed. Real developers often don't even know what day of the week it is. Questions like "how are you?" are difficult if not impossible to answer. "All systems nominal" would be perfectly correct, but socially unacceptable.

    The weather is always a somewhat dry 68F, sports would be so much easier if both teams would cooperate, and ultimately is a modern substitute for tribal warfare. Cheering for something remotely without having even a remote chance of influence on the process is similar to shouting in elation every time the second hand passes through 5 on a clock. And since every day is exactly the same, there are no summer plans.


    Damn, that is one of the best encapsulations of nerds/geeks I've seen in a long time.
  • Atom 2009-06-25 23:12
    I was inte4rviewing for a management job, in a field I knew extremely well. Things were going well, until I asked "what would you say are the major strengths of your product?"

    There was a long pause, and then the CEO said "well, we mostly sell in the north-east". Before I could bite my tongue, out came "What? That's the only strength? That your customers are from around here?"

    After a very long silence, the interview never seemed to get back on track.

    Atom
  • Brett 2009-06-26 17:01
    Matt:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    The sad truth is that all it takes to run a business is to be a good bullshitter and have enough money to keep minor overhead - nothing else even remotely matters like having a good product, paying for good equipment or paying people a decent wage.

    Seriously, you have no idea the number of small-time idiots I've seen that shouldn't stay in business yet do, and manage to turn a hefty profit despite cutting all kinds of corners and not even understanding WTF their business is.

    I find it very ironic that scam artists stay in business and are successful while honest people routinely end up desperate for income.


    You sir live in an alternate reality. Scummy businesses don't last very long. Ff they do last, they certainly don't thrive. And it DOES take a lot of hard work to build up a successful business.

    There are always exceptions. They don't disprove the rule.

    My question is, have you ever started a business of your own? You sound like an arm-chair quarterback.



    I would say it is 2/3 decent hard working and then there is 1/3 that are able to bullshit their way into staying in business.

    The bullshiters are sometimes able to stay in business because they have good people skills and can really sell themselves or their friends help them stay in business. I used to work for a state dept and the lady in charge gave $$$ money to her no talent consulant marketing friend.

    Matt, I'm curious to know how many businesses you have ran and if they were successful or not.
  • mr X 2009-06-27 06:13
    I was working for a large department store, in it's credit department, while I was at tech learning electronics engineering. I'd noticed that a certain group of people never seemed to leave the luchroom, and always had a cigarette and cup of coffee with them. They all looked stressed out all the time, and eventually I found out why. I was having lunch at the same table as 2 of them one day when I had a look at what they were reading.It was COBOL, and bought back memories of when I was growing up and spent a couple of years playing around with COBOL to keep me amused(don't ask). I innocently asked "is that COBOL?" and the stressed out codemonkey looked at me and said "yes it is! do you know COBOL?"... I looked at the bloodshot owl eyes, crows feet, hunched shoulders, and the wild eyes of someone in over their head and said "sorry, not enough to be useful to you". Turned out that the CIO had gone to the US and bought some software, sight unseen, for the company 'frame, and it turned out to be for a completely different type of credit system, and had to be re-written from the ground up.Apparently the software had cost a great deal of money, so they couldn't just can it(lest the CIO look like a complete twat), it had to be "optimised" until it did the desired task. They had 3 programmers trying to do a COBOL rewrite in a time frame that would have been nigh on impossible for 10, and they looked like hell.Turns out they couldn't get any more coders because most people took one look at it and said "no f**king way!" and then headed for the door. Never in my professional life have I been so happy to have turned down extra work.
  • Kasper 2009-06-27 20:26
    Somehow the Oops story made me think of IT Factory. Of course I don't know nearly enough about IT Factory to know if the description does match. And even if it did, there could be more than one company like that.
  • are you still waiting? :P 2009-06-30 03:45
    j0k3r:
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Code Dependent:
    j0k3r:
    Frankly, all of these stories suck. The first is just a bad pun. The second one goes nowhere and the grammar makes it almost unreadable. The third one is about a guy who let an arrogant ass walk all over him (Good on ya Drew!).
    And here you are on the second page of comments, weighing in weightlessly rather than posting something worth reading.

    And here you are on the third page of comments, weighing in weightlessly on my comment rather than posting something worth reading.

    That's how I roll... If you don't like my opinion, then don't read it. This is my registered username so feel free to skip my comments next time.
    On the contrary, your opinion was a useless rant. My highlighting of fact was a neighborly attempt to help you ease over the hump from shallow, self-absorbed tin man to contributing member of society.

    Hang with it, man. Eventually you'll get a clue. We hope.

    So clever... you are and your ePenis are huge. I can only hope to aspire to be as much of a contributing member as you some day.

    I have to say, I am flattered that you care so much about my personal situation though. I'll be waiting with bated breath for your response.
  • savar 2009-07-03 08:22
    Fregas:
    OOP is so overrated anyway:

    http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm


    It's hilarious that I separately discovered that site on my own this week. I guess the anti-OOP movement is starting to take hold. TOP FTW.
  • wm 2009-07-06 05:16
  • mara 2009-07-07 10:02
    So where's the WTF?
  • Aapje 2009-08-07 10:46
    It's hilarious that I separately discovered that site on my own this week. I guess the anti-OOP movement is starting to take hold. TOP FTW.


    Not really, that page is years old (who uses Geocities anymore???). I know tablizer from Slashdot where he used to argue about this, but lately he seems to have mellowed out.
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  • smh 2010-05-14 07:56
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Seriously, you have no idea the number of small-time idiots I've seen that shouldn't stay in business yet do, and manage to turn a hefty profit despite cutting all kinds of corners and not even understanding WTF their business is.


    Even today, I have no idea how Microsoft stay in business.
  • Andrew101 2010-05-30 15:47
    "Tim froze for a few seconds and stared intently at an invisible point about two feet from his face"

    lol This is the best!
  • Elija 2010-07-12 15:25
    Spectre:
    "evernwhere"? How can you make a typo like this?


    Realln, realln easiln
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  • Prism 2011-07-11 10:47
    Rudy:
    Fregas:

    I'm not agreeing with everything Mr. Oopbad has to say, but in 1981 I could type as fast as I wanted and even if the computer fell behind it would eventually catch up without losing a single keystroke. Now I find myself waiting for windows to gain focus and repaint, waiting for text boxes to get an active cursor, and interrupted by annoying pop-ups. This is not now and then. This is constantly, all day.

    Even though the hardware is about a billion times faster, the software has made things slower. I spend a lot more time waiting on my computer than I used to.



    I don't know if this is part of your problem specifically, but what you describe sounds very much like "using VisualStudio" with any kind of plugins.

    If so, don't get me wrong, it is a great environment and the plugins are gotta-haves. The solution is that you have to work simultaneously from VS and another quality editor that doesn't get bogged down. I use SlickEdit.

    Assuming this might be the issue, or someone elses issue (ie, anyone with this heavy VS config), the answer is to use a fast editor for certain things, and VS for other things.

    When coding I am usually switching between them every 3-5 minutes. You have to extend the editors so that you can jump to the same line/col/file. But its a beautiful thing.

    When I am in familiar territory I can use the fast editor to compose and massage code, then I can go to VS and let the tools give me feedback on what I have done, maybe do refactoring and renamings there, inject XML comments, or get intellisense when I'm stuck.

    My 2 cents.