• BobX (unregistered)

    You pitiful unintelligent plebs just cannot grasp the power that I have unleashed with BobX.

    Captcha: bene A job working with BobX is a bene in and of itself.

  • J.R. "Bob" Dobbs (unregistered) in reply to Corey
    Corey:
    Is it? Is it???? I humbly refer you to http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/has-joel-spolsky-jumped-the-shark.html

    I think Wasabi was already covered on TheDailyWTF (albeit with LOTS of obfuscation, the site called it WTFSL and the company was referred as a security company. I'm not linking the article due to Akismet being a PITA). This language is even more stupid than Wasabi since it isn't even compiled to PHP but runs on top of PHP (whose main selling points do not include speed).

    That being said, not every in-house language is necessarily a WTF (you could have a niche language for a very specialised application, for instance), and some allegedly “general-purpose” languages are extremely offensive. Case in point: The 4D DBMS. A pet peeve of mine, this software shoves its own language on its users. The language can only be edited from the pitiful integrated editor, and until recently didn't even include SQL queries (!). The string functions don't even have a split/explode equivalent (or anything else useful for that matter). Despite being interpreted, it doesn't really support dynamic type casting (but it has pointers! Yeehaw!), and its arrays' indexes begin at 1. Oh, and the tags for dynamic webpages allow you to loop on arrays... only if they're one-dimensional (just to quote a few WTFs, there are much more). And this is a commercial language that has even got devoted users, which IMHO goes to show that the in-house vs. distributed parameter is not that relevant to the language's quality...

  • J (unregistered)
    This was definitely not the reaction that Christian expected.

    Really? Because everyone else saw it coming from a mile away...

  • Kyle Z. (unregistered) in reply to Bryan The K
    Bryan The K:
    Kyle Z.:
    One of the IT Crowd:
    Anyone else suspect that Bob == Brian ?

    Totally.

    Has anyone ever seen Bob and Brian in the same room together? It's kind of like Batman and Bruce Wayne.

    If someday they invoke Bob and he comes with a mask (with sure a X on the top of it), I'll shit on my pants laughing.

    I'm sure that Brian will make a good excuse for missing work.

  • (cs) in reply to The Nerve
    The Nerve:
    The creator of Hibernate and it's bastard child HQL admitted that he created a whole new way to query because he couldn't understand and couldn't be bothered to learn SQL. Something tells me that BobX was created with the same premise.
    Link, or it didn't happen.
  • (cs) in reply to Aaron
    Aaron:
    ... Definitely, buy an ERP. But if your company is small or has a very simple/straightforward process, it's far less expensive to get a good developer to blast something out in 2-4 weeks. On the other hand, if your process has so many twists and turns that you can't even draw up a legible flow chart, all of that "customization" essentially becomes custom development anyway and you're just pissing away money. ...
    And here we have the essential problem. It is basically impossible to computerise an existing human-driven process. This has been known by the wiser heads since at least as long ago as the early 60s.

    No, rather than trying to bend the computer to fit the hopelessly fleshy-driven process, you morph the process to become computerisable, and then computerise it. In the 60s, LEO (Lyons Electronic Office, go look it up) made a business out of this, with a series of successful projects. In the 80s, this concept was rediscovered and became a management fad, this time called "business process reengineering".

    ((Declaration of bias: My mother worked as a programmer at LEO in the early 60s.))

    Your main problem is "Old Fred's Report". Every attempt to computerise the business is stymied by the need to emulate the labyrinthine report that "Old Fred" produces once a month. It becomes the measure of these attempts, until somebody asks the obvious questions: "What does Old Fred's Report actually mean?" and "Does anybody actually read any of it?" Once it comes out that the first answer is "Nothing" or "Nobody knows" and the second answer is "No", the blasted thing can be abandoned, and Old Fred can be quietly persuaded to take early retirement, or to fall under a bus or something. At this point, a precedent has been set, and hordes of other processes, reports, etc. can be shuffled, modified, etc., until the company can be trivially computerised.

  • The Nerve (unregistered)

    Did someone BobX the please-support.thedailywtf.com link?

  • Kyle Z. (unregistered) in reply to pluma
    pluma:
    SECOND!

    This guy posted first thinking that he would be the second...

    You have a serious lack of self confidence problem.

  • Pants (unregistered) in reply to frits

    I find this story extremely frusterating.

  • 1337c0d3rz (unregistered)

    Does anyone know where we can download the bobx framework for immediate implementation? Also, we'll need to lease some support time from mr X. I think this is going to fit perfectly into our current development style.

  • some dude (unregistered) in reply to Drew
    Drew:
    Did anyone else misread the title and expect a article about a new database type that was specifically for XML? I'm imagining a whole relational database made up of nothing but XML Blob columns...

    ...I scared myself.

    You don't have to imagine it. It is a very frequent WTF.

    Now.. if only we could setup the servers on a wooden table and not use a file system..

  • Anonymously Yours (unregistered) in reply to ReallyCalledBob
    ReallyCalledBob:
    Actually it would be: 
    <cfoutput query="queryName">
    #TableContent#
</cfoutput>
    Your code is more efficient, but I was writing the equivalent CF code to match what was written in BobX.
  • anon (unregistered) in reply to Bert

    TRWTF is PHP.

    No surprise Christian had hard time trying to replace bobx with a language that is not any better.

  • Digital Pimp (unregistered)

    I don't know if any of you ever did Cold Fusion, but BobX looks a lot like it.

    This is on par with Codethulu.

  • (cs) in reply to unwesen
    unwesen:
    Except for the "implemented in PHP" bit, it sounds a bit like what I had to deal with in a previous job. I had hoped I was the only one.

    This one wasn't implemented in PHP, but a real Apache module. The scripting language had quirks like switch statements nested in if statements would work, but not if statements inside switch statements. Or vice versa, I forgot.

    It had a module subsystem - really quite useful. But the inventor of the scripting language didn't really think that anything but strings or integers would be passed to and from modules. So as a later addition, they hacked the module code to pass complex objects... internally, object pointers would be serialized to hexadecimal string representations and passed as strings, and then deserialized and dereferenced on the other side.

    Yep. Any parameter starting with "0x" followed by hexadecimal digits would get let you overwrite that memory location.

    For the love of god, please tell me that all user input was severely sanitized before passing anything between modules.......

    Otherwise, fun with odd crashes....

    At least with SQL-injection you can check the server logs for something "';DROP TABLE STUDENTS;--", but what do you get out of 'login?id=0x4f5452ff&.....'

    Yazeran.

    Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer...

  • The Bytemaster (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    And, you have to love the "self-proclaimed genius programmer doesn't like Feature X of Language Y, so he creates his own abstraction language that cons the entire company into using it". I cannot think of ANYONE sane in the real world who would willingly take a job working with some obscure language that is only used by one company in the entire world. Unless you plan on never leaving that company, what benefit do you gain?
    You are right. No one ever wants to work for Yahoo!
  • nasch (unregistered) in reply to Kyle Z.
    Kyle Z.:
    pluma:
    SECOND!

    This guy posted first thinking that he would be the second...

    You have a serious lack of self confidence problem.

    Either that, or you have a lack of humor problem. Which would be serious by definition.

  • Fred (unregistered)
    “Welcome aboard!” exclaimed Brian
    Every time a new job starts with “Welcome aboard!” it makes me want to jump ship. Except we're not on a ship, Brian!

    Reminds me of a former boss who used to say, every now and then, "I'm going to hit the head" and then he would leave the room. Always wondered if he needed a wank or what. Two years later I learned that "head" is the Navy term for bathroom. Earth to Cluelack: you're not in the Navy any more.

  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    > TRWTF is PHP.

    No surprise Christian had hard time trying to replace bobx with a language that is not any better.

    This comment could not be any better.

    However, I have found another WTF, and that is with this site loading.

  • foo (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    I love how there's no company And, you have to love the "self-proclaimed genius programmer doesn't like Feature X of Language Y, so he creates his own abstraction language that cons the entire company into using it".

    I reserve the right to not love Bjarne Stroustrup.

  • Cali (unregistered)
    The server, infrastructure, and database teams all work closely with each other on a daily basis.”

    and

    “but I do know this – finance has cut him a check every month for the past 10 years and he provides servers, environments and adds features to BobX freeing up the guys here to handle everything else.”

    I'm inclined to wonder what "everything else" consisted of, and additionally, why anyone AT ALL stayed there. Dude pretty much admitted that honesty cost them hires. At no one point has it occurred to them that this is not a long term option. Surely someone recognised the inherent risk of running a system NO one new wanted to work on?

    And yeah, I believe that this or similar happened.

  • JC (unregistered) in reply to frits

    YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING?!?! Please tell me that was a joke! hahaha Dude it isn't like PHP - its built on-top of PHP -> Therefore it's an even higher level of abstraction! There is a difference between PHP and XML..please don't compare the two!

  • MatekCopatek (unregistered) in reply to frits

    Nice try, Bob! (hello from reddit)

  • ÃÃà (unregistered)

    This is the definition of WTFery. Looks like Bob got too hopped up on the XML bandwagon and decided to write an xml parser for his "language". SOMEHOW he convinced management this was ideal, and when Christian demonstrated that using plain PHP instead of adding another abstraction layer (which was hard to read and slow as rocks), and the customers commented that they in fact liked that everything generally felt faster, what does management do? Nothing less than forcing Christian into more WTFery. I wonder how many customers they lost after going back to BobX.

    On the other hand, I have to give Bob credit for SOMEHOW convincing everyone in the development team for using that WTFery, and on top of that getting everyone to call it BobX.

    inhibeo: what you really need to prevent yourself from stabbing your eyes out after looking at BobX source.

  • PleadTheCFIF (unregistered)

    I get the feeling that Bob was the guy who got the maddest when anyone dared to "touch" him as a kid.

  • James (unregistered) in reply to DeGustibusNonDisputandumEst

    I checked out the site:

    http://bobx.co.nz/

    ...and maybe it's just me, but anyone who uses Comic Sans font for a professional IT website is a character.

    Off topic...WTF servers are slow today!

  • (cs) in reply to PleadTheCFIF
    PleadTheCFIF:
    I get the feeling that Bob was the guy who got the maddest when anyone dared to "touch" him as a kid.

    Bob, 1992: "They all laughed at me. Said I was mad. Mad, I tell you! But just you wait. When I unleash my super-powerful PHP front-end language on the world, then we'll see who has the last laugh! MUWAHAHAHAAA!!!"

  • Frits is Smoking Somethin' (unregistered) in reply to frits
    frits:
    I find all you BobX haters so frusterating. I mean, it's just a tool like Java, PHP, or C#. The real value is in getting the job done. And if I can do it using BobX, well screw you and good for me.

    Loser. You musta been programming all of 6 months to make a statement like this!

  • reddit (unregistered) in reply to frits

    HAI BOB!

  • Moocoos (unregistered)

    I worked for a very large multi national corporation that is a household name. All of their servers ran the "Josh Markup Language." This kind of shit happens, believe me.

  • Benj (unregistered)

    Wow. Amazing how some people can snow an entire organization into thinking their some sort of code genius demi-god, and hold them hostage like that. Poor bastards.

  • (cs) in reply to Steve The Cynic
    Steve The Cynic:
    The fact that Christian didn't ask about the server platform at interview time is a personal WTF that is nobody's fault but his.

    Why would he ask about it when the position he applied for was described perfectly clearly?

    ...when he interviewed with Brian for a PHP position and all of the technical questions related to hardware demands, logical approaches and pitfalls with regards to developing web applications in... PHP.

    The fact that the job description was perfectly clear and wrong is the company's fault, not Christian's. Or do people go around applying for jobs and then in the interview ask "I know the job description said $LANGUAGE, but do you really use that or is it something else?"

  • James Sullivan (unregistered)

    That's one way to ensure a long-term contract, make up your own language and convince someone to lock into it... that is after all what SAP and the other companies did over the past 20 years. Good thing you quit - can you imagine the pain of dealing with the bobx guy and his emotional stunts like that in the future? Also, naming a language after yourself is pretty special - this guy must think very highly of himself which probably entails lots of other really egotistical behavior.

  • EngleBart (unregistered) in reply to The Nerve
    The Nerve:
    Did someone BobX the please-support.thedailywtf.com link?
    Seconded. I had to add an entry to my hosts file for please-support just to read todays story about unmaintainable web sites. Coincidence? Or a test to see how much I want my WTF?

    Once the site is back up, please let me know so I can remove my host entry and support the WTF.

  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to James Sullivan
    James Sullivan:
    That's one way to ensure a long-term contract, make up your own language and convince someone to lock into it... that is after all what SAP and the other companies did over the past 20 years. Good thing you quit - can you imagine the pain of dealing with the bobx guy and his emotional stunts like that in the future? Also, naming a language after yourself is pretty special - this guy must think very highly of himself which probably entails lots of other really egotistical behavior.

    Why waste your time making up new languages when there are literally dozens of buggy open-source languages being released every day.

    1. Download framework and code from Source Forge
    2. Modify source code to add "missing" language features.
    3. Abandon project and find new framework on Source Forge
    4. $$$!!!
    5. Return to 1 ad infinitum
  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to EngleBart
    EngleBart:
    The Nerve:
    Did someone BobX the please-support.thedailywtf.com link?
    Seconded. I had to add an entry to my hosts file for please-support just to read todays story about unmaintainable web sites. Coincidence? Or a test to see how much I want my WTF?

    Once the site is back up, please let me know so I can remove my host entry and support the WTF.

    Thanks for ruining the test.

  • sheldon (unregistered) in reply to One of the IT Crowd
    One of the IT Crowd:
    Anyone else suspect that Bob == Brian ?
    I suspected that BobX will turn out to be some kind of renamed PHP. That Bob would take each new PHP release, rename it to BobX and sell as an upgrade.
  • sheldon (unregistered) in reply to Corey
    Corey:
    Is it? Is it???? I humbly refer you to http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/has-joel-spolsky-jumped-the-shark.html
    Oh, wow. I remember reading in Joel's blog that when they hire programmers, they only care about general abilities, not specific technologies. At that point it seemed like a smart decision. But now it looks like maybe it was just necessity, after all there probably aren't that many Wasabi programmers around...
  • nobody (unregistered) in reply to Fred
    Fred:
    “Welcome aboard!” exclaimed Brian
    Every time a new job starts with “Welcome aboard!” it makes me want to jump ship. Except we're not on a ship, Brian!

    Reminds me of a former boss who used to say, every now and then, "I'm going to hit the head" and then he would leave the room. Always wondered if he needed a wank or what. Two years later I learned that "head" is the Navy term for bathroom. Earth to Cluelack: you're not in the Navy any more.

    Earth to Fred: You're just stupid. Everyone else learned that before the age of 10.

  • BobX Hater (unregistered) in reply to frits

    the problem here isn't that BobX is bad (although from the sounds of it it is). The problem is that this "Bob" character re-invented something that didn't need reinventing. Why would someone write a PHP-like scripting language in PHP? Unless it offers some performance or development enhancements or features that PHP doesn't include then there's no point.

  • gil (unregistered) in reply to frits

    BobX = Job security for Bob.

  • Programmer (unregistered) in reply to frits

    Huh, sounds like a horror movie...

  • Martin Byrd (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    I love how there's no company in the world that can use an COTS ERP system, but MUST create one in-house to deal with such complex tasks as tracking customers, or orders, or processing invoices.

    I often wonder if the development "team" just feeds management this line of bullshit to be able to spend months re-inventing the wheel instead of buying something customizable.

    And, you have to love the "self-proclaimed genius programmer doesn't like Feature X of Language Y, so he creates his own abstraction language that cons the entire company into using it". I cannot think of ANYONE sane in the real world who would willingly take a job working with some obscure language that is only used by one company in the entire world. Unless you plan on never leaving that company, what benefit do you gain?

    And I've also seen these COTS products that have to be so highly customized, and just coincidentally require very very expensive consultants (as opposed to the normal just expensive consultants) to keep them running. For 'future proofing' they allow such fields as 'user1' 'user2' and 'user3' ... cool!

    To that end, how is that any different from creating your own web app in ASP.net MVC + Sql (both COTS products) that does almost what the silly COTS program does, except you're no longer held ransom to another companies lifecycle.

    Core to your business - build it in-house. Not core to your business - outsource or use off-the-shelf.

  • Grumpy (unregistered) in reply to Skilldrick
    Skilldrick:
    Don't you mean "Might as well be brainf*ck"? I assume you're talking about the language:

    +++++++++[<+++++++++++++>-]<+.-------------.+++..-------.++++++++++++++.>++++++[<----------->-]<-.+.+++++++++++++++.>+++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++.--.>++++++[<---------->-]<+.>+++++++[<++++++++>-]<.+++.

    Win. Impressive Stunt bonus. Do you really live in Finland or do you just use iki as an intermediate?

  • logical.. (unregistered) in reply to Pants
    Pants:
    I find this story extremely frusterating.

    I have to admit that I was frustererated when I read it the first time too. Then I read it again and didn't feel any different.. does that mean I was refrustererarted? If so - damnum

  • UriGagarin (unregistered) in reply to Martin Byrd

    The trouble is that often the business won't change their processes (no matter how stupid) to fit a COTS system - most COTS systems I've seen will fit standard business processes.

    Or they buy one that is probably as far as far away to fitting their processes and want to modify it to match it.

    The problem is that they see the change at only at the software end , no matter how stupid that works out.

    Oh Captcha : MatthewHoogard.

  • (cs)

    You can't compare Wasabi to this BobX shit since Wasabi serves a business need (it compiles to ASP or PHP so the end user can run it no matter their platform). BobX is just someone's take on "I don't like PHP so I'll make a parser that runs on top of PHP!"

    That said, the problem with Wasabi still is that anyone using the damn thing can't leverage that skill anywhere else since it's a homegrown language.

  • (cs)

    From the article, it would seem that Bob owned the servers the company used and they were just leasing them. I don't know how Bob got the company to lease his servers, but he is a genius. He literally could hold the company hostage.

  • Bob (unregistered)

    This is an extreme distortion of the situation.

  • Bob (unregistered)

    TAKE THIS ARTICLE DOWN IMMEDIATELY

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