• JimmyVile (unregistered) in reply to inigomontoya
    inigomontoya:
    Tell me, is Steve the six-fingered man?

    He's the guy! Here's what happened... Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...

  • Submarine (unregistered) in reply to LBD
    LBD:
    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    OMG you're so wrong - pirates do sell Linux for money

    [image]
    N00b
    Glad to meet you, N00b!
  • ch. (unregistered) in reply to LBD
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable. Just like one cannot pirate Linux
    Oh yeah, you can. It satisfies all the "arguments" of anti-pirates: - You are using someone's work without paying for it. - By downloading firefox or linux the competitors are losing "potential profit". - If everybody did it, the competitors would go bankrupt. - It is immoral to steal. (In other words: you wouldn't shoplift a firefox or linux CD in a store.)
  • Casey (unregistered)

    If you are a tech employed (not contractor) by a company, you have a fiduciary to notify your company's legal department of these issues. It is a potential legal liability.

  • JD (unregistered)

    If the guy has contractual concessions that allow him to use his laptop for personal use then it is absolutely unacceptable for some overzealous tech to go in there and randomly delete anything he doesn't like the look of. Clearly this action warranted disciplinary measures and that was exactly what happened. I see absolutely no WTF here, except the tech who thought he could rampage unchecked through someone's personal laptop.

    As for the subject of pirated material, there is absolutely no indication that any of that material was downloaded via the corporate network. It was very probably downloaded on the guy's own time and internet connection. That doesn't make it legal but it does severely restrict any 'right' that the company has over any of those files. Remember of course that the company cannot realistically prove that any of the files are pirated - they can only harbour suspicions, nothing more. Well, if I suspect that someone's personal laptop has pirated material on it, I don't feel that gives me the right to delete files at my whim.

    I hope this tech learnt his lesson.

  • Tilman Baumann (unregistered)

    Honestly, i would be really pissed too if someone deleted files on my company laptop. I would be fine if someone would ask me to please delete all the pirated stuff. This way, i can do it and i can do it right and responsively.

    Just looking at the files without asking me would feel offensive to me.

    And why should it be a problem anyway. Many companies allow private use of laptops. As long as it does not interfer with work...

  • Jim (unregistered)

    I think Jake is trolling us with this post. He saw all the passionate responses to the Wii hacking post and thought he'd have some fun stirring the crowd up a bit.

    It's obviously no WTF to reprimand a tech for deleting a staff member's personal files that reside on his personal laptop (sure it may be the company's laptop, but if he had special contractual rights to use it as his personal machine then it's as good as his personal laptop).

    The whole 'pirated material' bit is totally irrelevant to the story. All that is relevant here is that a tech deleted someone's personal files without bothering to enquire with them or even the company / boss!

    Simple equation: personal laptop = personal laptop, not personal laptop = personal laptop as long as there is nothing that I suspect may be illegal in which case I'll just delete whatever I feel like.

  • Andre (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    No, you can specify a minimum AND maximum size for the swap file in any windows version from the last decade. Set them to the same value and you have a fixed size swap file that won’t fragment.
    Right.
    Anon:
    I think it will increase the maximum size if utterly necessary
    Wrong.
  • JimmyVile (unregistered) in reply to Tilman Baumann
    Tilman Baumann:
    Honestly, i would be really pissed too if someone deleted files on my company laptop. I would be fine if someone would ask me to please delete all the pirated stuff. This way, i can do it and i can do it right and responsively.

    Just looking at the files without asking me would feel offensive to me.

    And why should it be a problem anyway. Many companies allow private use of laptops. As long as it does not interfer with work...

    I think it's because your employer is responsible if "they" find illegal software/media on your PC. ("They" being your local flavor of anti-piracy watchdog.)

    My company was actually raided by people from Autodesk who somehow got some legal docs that allowed them to search all our computers for illegal installments. The reasoning behind it was the fact that we only had one or two registered licenses, which are not nearly enough for a studio this size. Turns out we were just use Maya instead of 3DSM.

  • IByte (unregistered) in reply to Sexy coder
    Sexy coder:
    IByte:
    Jake Vinson:
    Steve's boss half-yelled a cheerful "Lee! This is Steve, new in IT!" No response. "Lee!" Still nothing. The boss sighed, turned to Steve, and said "Sometimes Lee likes to listen to music loud on his headphones."
    That's why we use Google Talk at our IT department. It doesn't matter you're in the same room if your addressee can't hear you. Plus, I'd rather paste a URL instead of reading it out loud.
    Weird, I can hear just fine people on the same room as me, but I have exceptional hearing.
    You know, I quoted that bit about the headphones and loud music for a reason...
  • Justin (unregistered)

    This is not a WTF. The tech should not delete stuff without checking with the management first. It is not his responsibility or ability set to decide what should and should not be on a user's disk.

  • (cs) in reply to Justin
    Justin:
    This is not a WTF. The tech should not delete stuff without checking with the management first. It is not his responsibility or ability set to decide what should and should not be on a user's disk.

    So it isn't a WTF, but it IS a WTF?

    Make your mind up!

    The local files, if they were important, should have been backed up. /END

  • vman (unregistered) in reply to Jim
    Jim:
    The whole 'pirated material' bit is totally irrelevant to the story. All that is relevant here is that a tech deleted someone's personal files without bothering to enquire with them or even the company / boss!

    Simple equation: personal laptop = personal laptop, not personal laptop = personal laptop as long as there is nothing that I suspect may be illegal in which case I'll just delete whatever I feel like.

    If the laptop is provided by the company, then it is a company laptop. If there is something in Lee's contract that says "lee can put x amount of personal stuff on the laptop" then that should be made clear to the tech before the inventory of that laptop. Otherwise, Lee's out of luck.

    Most places I've worked, an "inventory" of this sort means that you need to back up any important files, as they're going to wipe the disk and reinstall the OS. They're not even going to LOOK at it. Failure to back the disk up is YOUR fault, not the tech's and YOU get in trouble for it, not the tech.

  • yah (unregistered) in reply to Andrew
    Andrew:
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable.

    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    N00b

    Did you know the word sarcasm isn't in the dictionary?

    They removed it at the same time as gullable.

  • (cs) in reply to yah
    yah:
    Andrew:
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable.

    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    N00b

    Did you know the word sarcasm isn't in the dictionary?
    They removed it at the same time as gullable.
    Dang it - I was about to post a screenshot of an OED search for "gullable" along with a comment like "gosh, look, you're right!" but it's in there as an early - mid 19th century alternative spelling... :(

  • Jim (unregistered) in reply to vman
    vman:
    If the laptop is provided by the company, then it is a *company* laptop. If there is something in Lee's contract that says "lee can put x amount of personal stuff on the laptop" then that should be made clear to the tech before the inventory of that laptop. Otherwise, Lee's out of luck.
    Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff. We don't know the specifics, of course, but we do know that there was some clause that allowed this. It was not Lee's responsibility to tell this to the tech and even if it was, the story suggests that the tech did this without Lee's knowledge or blessing. So I don't see how Lee could have done anything different, unless he's expected to go around and inform every single tech in the entire company that his laptop contains legitimate personal files. I don't think this is reasonable.

    I stand by my assessment that the tech was at fault and was correctly admonished for it.

  • Stephen (unregistered) in reply to Steve

    The Real WTF was that he wasnt reported to the Police, sacked and then jailed for having that on his PC.

    Thats happened to people i've worked with and I wouldnt hesitate to shop them for that kind of carry on.

    S

  • Zap Brannigan (unregistered) in reply to rfsmit
    rfsmit:
    Steve:
    He should have asked before deleting the files. You can never assume anything ,no matter how reasonable it may be. A lesson learned.
    You'd think so, wouldn't you? However, one day, when you actually work for a real company, you'll find that backups are your own responsibility, kid. That is, unless the company provides an automated backup scheme. Usually they'll have a filter of some kind applied, but it's still your responsibility to check that certain files requiring automated backups are not filtered out.

    Maybe it's different in kindergarten...

    You're right, it's that way here too. I am responsible to protect and back up important files to the network. However, if I gave my laptop to the net techs to be checked out and they deleted files without asking, I would be so pissed.

  • Reggie (unregistered)

    Meh... nothing unusual about guys plugged into headphones, listening to mp3s at work, legal or not. While the IT tech getting reprimanded for deleting non work related files is awkward, it's nothing to write about....

  • vman (unregistered) in reply to Jim
    Jim:
    vman:
    If the laptop is provided by the company, then it is a *company* laptop. If there is something in Lee's contract that says "lee can put x amount of personal stuff on the laptop" then that should be made clear to the tech before the inventory of that laptop. Otherwise, Lee's out of luck.
    Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff. We don't know the specifics, of course, but we do know that there was some clause that allowed this. It was not Lee's responsibility to tell this to the tech and even if it was, the story suggests that the tech did this without Lee's knowledge or blessing. So I don't see how Lee could have done anything different, unless he's expected to go around and inform every single tech in the entire company that his laptop contains legitimate personal files. I don't think this is reasonable.

    I stand by my assessment that the tech was at fault and was correctly admonished for it.

    Nope, if the tech had no way of knowing that his job was different for Lee than for everyone else, then sorry, management is at fault.

  • RiF (unregistered) in reply to Jim

    [quote user="Jim"][quote user="vman"] Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff.[/quote] Personal illegal stuff?

    Could be that the tech was following company procedure(s) we'll never know the full story.

    Don't let that stop you though...

  • RiF (unregistered) in reply to RiF
    RiF:
    Jim:
    vman:
    Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff.
    Personal illegal stuff?

    Could be that the tech was following company procedure(s) we'll never know the full story.

    Don't let that stop you though...

    FFS.

    Note to self: use preview button

  • Jim (unregistered) in reply to vman
    vman:
    Nope, if the tech had no way of knowing that his job was different for Lee than for everyone else, then sorry, management is at fault.
    No apology necessary because I think you have made a very fair assessment. If there were specific clauses in Lee's contract that meant his situation was different from that of the average staff member then yes, it should have been management's responsibility to inform the company's techs. My overarching point was that this WTF is nothing to do with "Lee the pirate" or his behaviour. It is the action of the other staff members at his company that provided the real WTF.
  • Jim (unregistered) in reply to RiF

    Quote: [quote user="Jim"][quote user="vman"] Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff.[/quote] Personal illegal stuff?

    Could be that the tech was following company procedure(s) we'll never know the full story.

    Don't let that stop you though... End Quote

    Learn how to post and maybe I'll grace you with a reply...

  • RiF (unregistered) in reply to Jim
    Jim:
    Quote:
    Jim:
    vman:
    Umm, but if you read the article you'll see that there WAS something in Lee's contract to say he could use it for personal stuff.
    Personal illegal stuff?

    Could be that the tech was following company procedure(s) we'll never know the full story.

    Don't let that stop you though...

    End Quote

    Learn how to post and maybe I'll grace you with a reply...

    Hey, I overlooked your ability to think, I think you could cut me a little slack!
  • lern2read (unregistered) in reply to caffeinatedbacon
    Intensively or not, swap writes to disk. The swap file in Windows grows and shrinks based on usage. Where it grows to is available space on disk. As HD's write from the outer tracks to the inner tracks, as the free space becomes restricted to the inner tracks, write operations slow down (fewer sectors can be accessed at the same RPM as the track circumference reduces). Add that to a drive where as it nears capacity is almost certainly fragmented, free space becomes peppered throughout the drive, all disk operations become slower.
    TRWTF is people like this giving advice. You can force windows to use a fixed size page file. Select custom size and make min=max. Allowing the page file to grow is how you get a fragmented page file.
  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Johnny Canuck

    Ok I'm gonna bite here.

    When a laptop of mine gets loaned out they sign a form indicating that the laptop should be returned in the condition it left the office and that they should expect any files left on there on return to be deleted on return.

    I'm not going to waste my technicians time making backups of shit that should have been stored securely on the huge file server we invested in. If you don't that's YOUR problem - not mine.

  • (cs) in reply to Nick
    Nick:
    Theft is larceny,
    No it isn't. Moron.

    Theft includes larceny, but it is not limited to larceny.

  • (cs) in reply to You call this working?
    You call this working?:
    A company laptop is for company business, and work is not the place to indulge in entertainment, be that listening to music, reading newspapers, talking to friends on the phone etc. It's work, so you should be working.
    I am working when I'm listening to music. I take my headphones off when I'm on the phone or talking to someone.

    If I have 40GB of music that prevent me from doing work, then we might have an issue. But I don't.

    My boss is free to tell me not to listen to music ever, of course. I'd probably start looking for another job at that point, or tell my boss to stop all the mindless chitter-chatter that I'm putting on the headphones to ignore.

  • Dirk Diggler (unregistered) in reply to Dave
    Dave:
    Ok I'm gonna bite here.

    When a laptop of mine gets loaned out they sign a form indicating that the laptop should be returned in the condition it left the office and that they should expect any files left on there on return to be deleted on return.

    I'm not going to waste my technicians time making backups of shit that should have been stored securely on the huge file server we invested in. If you don't that's YOUR problem - not mine.

    As long as that's everyone's understanding and you're not making up rules as you go. You're 100% correct. Having it spelled out on the sign out sheet as you wrote is the way to go. I'm not sure that's what happened in the article.

  • (cs)

    TRWTF: "bmm-tss" is much better onomatopoeiatically spelled "OONTZ OONTZ"

  • My Name (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    Couldn't remember where I'd heard 'Autobahn' before. Then 'Nagelbett' reminded me it was The Big Lebowski.

    Kraftwerk had a single called Autobahn in 1975. Very cool song by a legendary band. They were the de facto standard of electronical music at the time

  • (cs) in reply to LBD
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable.

    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    Maybe he slapped the firefox name and logo on his IE installation?

    N00b

    nuh-uh u r!

  • MM (unregistered) in reply to JimM
    JimM:
    Lee's contract mentioned a laptop without specifying how it was to be used. Any contract stating the the company will provide a laptop should have clearly stated usage terms detailing whether / how much personal use is allowed.
    What makes you think it didn't specify that? We know it stated that the rights he would have to the laptop included the right to store personal files there. Since it included that, I expect it likely did state how much.
  • MM (unregistered) in reply to Andre
    Andre:
    Anon:
    I think it will increase the maximum size if utterly necessary
    Wrong.
    I'm not sure about all varieties of Windows, but I know that Windows NT can increase its max swap file size when necessary. It will warn you that you've exceeded the available virtual memory and should close any unnecessary applications, but then it will increase the swap file (and with it the swap file max size) to whatever it needs.

    (When it starts doing that repeatedly, you know you're past due to upgrade your RAM.)

  • MM (unregistered) in reply to Justin
    Justin:
    This is not a WTF. The tech should not delete stuff without checking with the management first. It is not his responsibility or ability set to decide what should and should not be on a user's disk.
    It certainly was his responsibility to decide. That was his job. He had been specifically tasked with the job of reviewing the contents of that laptop to ensure it had just what it was supposed to.

    His error was that he decided wrong when he cleared out everything without being careful enough to distinguish the company training materials that should have been left on there.

    And if anything else should have been left on there due to whatever the contractual agreement with Lee had been, then it was management's error for not making those special contractual rules clear to the tech before that laptop was reviewed.

  • (cs)

    I used to manage a large network 24 hour scratch space at a University. Capacity-wise, it was mostly a pit or porn and piracy. We had absolutely no interest in or funding for policing content, so most of the stuff had it's 24 hour run and went away.

    The one time we violated the 24 hour window involved much secrecy, policy office higher ups, strict orders and all that. It ended up that some old lady had discovered home-made child pornography. Well - she actually discovered 21+ college students flashing their tits at a bar, but when you're as old as dirt whats the difference between 17 and 21?

  • (cs) in reply to MM
    MM:
    His error was that he decided wrong when he cleared out everything without being careful enough to distinguish the company training materials that should have been left on there.
    Please. There were never any "training materials" on the drive.

    Lee got pissed that his shit was wiped out, but realized he couldn't complain about that. So instead he made up something else.

  • themanager (unregistered)

    Please, stop talking about law, rights, business policies,... all that chat makes us look like a bunch of clueless nerds. Please, let's take a dose of common sense.

    Lee works in 'production', and probably is a valuable employee. The IT guy works in IT, so 'services', and his task is to serve the rest of the staff, specially the production guys. Period.

    If I were the manager, I for sure didn't like a service guy pissing off a good production guy, especially for that silly thing (and specially now, in the middle of the mess of a move). As a manager, the quarrels between my employees annoy me much more than the 0.0001 probability of having trouble because of some copyrighted media. In the rare event of this trouble never arises, I'm sure I can manage it and take null damage. Meanwhile, quarrels between employees damages production now; it's loosing money right now, and a sad way to spend life.

    So, TRWTF is the IT guy forgot what is his place, and behave like a little BOFH, and like a little BOFH now cries begging for the sympathy of his colleagues. Surely deep down he is a good guy, but lacks experience. So, if you want to teach him a valuable lesson don't tell he was right.

  • (cs) in reply to Lesson learned: Lee
    Lesson learned: Lee:
    Steve:
    He should have asked before deleting the files. You can never assume anything ,no matter how reasonable it may be. A lesson learned.

    Actually, when your laptop is collected by your company to have its contents reviewed, you can't assume they won't format the entire drive and reinstall only the necessary software.

    They certainly have the right to do that, but I doubt that it makes much business sense to erase data without asking first.

    When I left a large company (Fortune 50), they backed up the entire HD before re-imaging it. Better safe than sorry.

  • (cs) in reply to JimM
    JimM:
    yah:
    Andrew:
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable.

    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    N00b

    Did you know the word sarcasm isn't in the dictionary?
    They removed it at the same time as gullable.
    Dang it - I was about to post a screenshot of an OED search for "gullable" along with a comment like "gosh, look, you're right!" but it's in there as an early - mid 19th century alternative spelling... :(

    WHAT!? I can't throw seagulls at people anymore!?

  • (cs) in reply to jspenguin

    It's OK; I'm reading a pirated version of WTF. ;->

    Arrrr!!!!!

  • zach (unregistered)

    This sounds like the guy who went to my undergrad who got busted for child porn. He got caught because he asked the helpdesk to back up some stuff on his computer, including his kiddie porn folder (which was named, iirc, "kiddie porn").

  • (cs) in reply to Sexy coder
    Sexy coder:
    Nicolas Verhaeghe:
    I was asked to look at his laptop because it was running very slow.

    I found out that the laptop was full of enema porn (yes, there is such a thing and yes, it is gross).

    He had gigabytes of enema and scat movies of all sorts, tons of images downloaded and he was part of dozens of Yahoo groups related to the topic.

    This was a manager who was very bossy and borderline abusive with everybody and me in particular.

    I deleted all these files, gave it a good defrag and installed a RAM module (it had been ordered for him) and when I handed the laptop back to him I said:

    "It's ok, now, I gave the hard drive a good ENEMA".

    He never was bossy with me anymore and avoided looking at me.

    So you deleted the guys porn just for fun? Last I heard storing media on a HD doesn't account for computer slowness. The extra RAM was probably what fixed it. You're a big jerk :-(.

    I've yet to see a company (outside the pron industry, obviously, but I've never seen those companies) where it's not against company policy to store porn on company systems (or to use company computers to browse porn sites).

    Same with pirates and other illegal material.

    So he did the right thing, followed company procedures. In fact I think he should have reported the manager to HR for violating that policy. Because he didn't that manager is now a meak lamb, knowing or fearing that further transgressions may have "unfavourable consequences" for his career.

  • (cs) in reply to iToad
    iToad:
    Well... let's see.
    1. Posession of a privately owned computer on the company premeses.
    2. Attachment of a privately owned computer to the company network.
    3. Downloading pirated music, video, or software using company computers (and/or the company IP address).
    4. Posession of pirated music, video, or software files on company computers.

    Around here, Lee would be so fired...

    1 and 2 are no problem here. There's even a special network segment to plug in non-company systems that has extra security on it. 3 and 4 are definite problems. Probably not firing offenses for the first offender, but you'd certainly get a good talking to.

  • Georg (unregistered)

    Hmm the band "Autobahn" does not exist, it's only mentioned in the big lebowski to reference the german band called "Kraftwerk", they actually brought out a record called "Autobahn".

  • ch. (unregistered) in reply to JimmyVile
    JimmyVile:
    My company was actually raided by people from Autodesk who somehow got some legal docs that allowed them to search all our computers for illegal installments. The reasoning behind it was the fact that we only had one or two registered licenses, which are not nearly enough for a studio this size. Turns out we were just use Maya instead of 3DSM.
    Wow, indeed these are some troubled times we live in... What's next? Raiding my home because I don't buy enough milk, presuming I steal it from somewhere?
  • yah (unregistered) in reply to Technical Thug
    Technical Thug:
    Orbstart:
    Piracy implies theft, theft suggests that you deprive the victim of the article being stolen.

    No it doesn't. You idiot.

    Go read up about non-rivalrous goods.

    Certainly an interesting addition to anyone's understanding of economics, but this (at least the Wikipedia version) does not cover whether or not depriving someone of a non-rivalrous good is theft. An example that seems to indicate the fact that you need to intend to deprive permanently is the phenomenon of joy-riding. If someone takes your car then you will probably report it stolen - however in the unlikely event that the offender is caught and charged then under English law they are charged with 'Taking Without Consent' (otherwise known as TWOC'ing). The same offence under Scots law is called somthing like 'Taking and Driving Away'. The offender is not charged with theft since despite the fact they took your car (a rivalrous good), they probably did not intend to keep it. On the other hand if they took it and shipped it offshore to re-sell, then that is definitely theft (or larceny as someone else has put it) of your rivalrous good.

  • yah (unregistered) in reply to JimM
    JimM:
    yah:
    Andrew:
    LBD:
    One cannot pirate firefox. It's free and therefore unpiratable.

    Just like one cannot pirate Linux

    N00b

    Did you know the word sarcasm isn't in the dictionary?
    They removed it at the same time as gullable.
    Dang it - I was about to post a screenshot of an OED search for "gullable" along with a comment like "gosh, look, you're right!" but it's in there as an early - mid 19th century alternative spelling... :(

    yah - I is so old...

  • Tilman Baumann (unregistered) in reply to JimmyVile

    I'm not so terribly sure if my employer would be responsible for my stash of illegally backuped music. He does not know. And as far as I understand the law where I live (Germany) he has no right to spy on me without me knowing it.

    Ok, I would be liable for misusing company resources. But this is besides the point.

    Honestly. I would quit the same moment I figure out that my company spied on me (without any previous suspicion) and especially when I come at work and find out that someone else deleted my files. No matter what files. This would be no place for me to work.

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