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Admin
You could say the network was rather loopy.
Admin
You know, one day I want to try this for kicks and moans. Is technology really that stupid still that it can't detect wires going into themselves?
Admin
I've always found it strange that you can so easily create a network storm but a USB storm is something I've never heard of. It's probably possible though... if you try :doing_it_wrong:...
Admin
There's USB-On-the-Go now but I think there's some protection built-in for the hubs.
Admin
If I recall how USB works, not in this manner....
Admin
If it's the cheap stuff, yes. One of the things you're buying when you get more expensive equipment is handling of such stupidities so you are less likely to get deployment problems.
The article says nothing about USB; those three letters do not appear anywhere at all. I'm guessing it is ethernet, and ethernet was storm-susceptible for a long time (though that was still better than building a 10base2 network!)
Editorial point: the picture is in twice, but neither time is it properly credited. Since it's a wikimedia pic, fixing this before it goes live is entirely possible.
Admin
I know? I was making a tangential point to the article. I assumed the article involved ethernet.
Admin
USB has different problems. In particular, I think it's much more restricted as to how far you can go when using the super high speed variant. Gigabit ethernet is at least building-scale.
Admin
"You get them old phones upgraded today, or your old Uncle Bob will be taking the “fun” out of your fundament!"
I must admit, I was impressed (apart from the plugging-in debacle that comprised the de rigueur WTF) how smoothly their upgrade operation went, based as it was on that somewhat ad-hoc design process (that is, the grabbing of a wad of cash and trundling off down to the shop).
Admin
Problems only really kick in if you try to get the very cheapest of everything, as that's usually when you end up getting stuff that is a bit cheaper than is wise. Makes me suspect that getting everything to be as efficient as possible is not actually very efficient, but that's because I like to factor in staff time and so on…
Admin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol
Admin
RSTP is usually a better thing to use than plain ol' STP, 'coz the"R" stands for "Rapid"... (STP networks converge slowly, on the order of multiple tens of seconds for a basic three-element triangle, while RSTP will converge much, much faster, and it will handle much bigger networks. Neither is suitable in the presence of large numbers of VLANs overlaid over the physical network. For that you need MSTP. "M" for multiple, where you separate the VLANs into groups, and each group gets its own spanning tree.)
And the sort of gear you can buy with a wad of cash in a nearby retail outlet probably doesn't support any of that stuff.
Admin
TRWTF is doing infrastructure work during open hours.
Admin
That long article and the WTF is only one badly placed cable? This I call stupid.
I expected some really dirty mess and I got "huh, lets disconnect this one".
When the real plot is stupid, fabricate a better one!
Admin
No. Thats just normal for the usual local businesses. Small stores, dealerships, bars ... they all have computers and dumb owners. Their bussiness style is "it's needed, let's do it now". You would be surprised, how effective this is. People like you are thinking about the best way how to make money for the tenth year, just to see these people to really earn money for the whole time!
Admin
Not actual switches and routers. But these guys had to make-do with the shit you find at Best Buy.
Admin
Well maybe there are really costs to doing things after hours for SMBs. Contractors usually charge more, employes are often hourly. So it might make sense to 'disrupt the business', provided the duration is know with some amount of certainty and costs considered.
What is amazing in this story is nobody talked to the boss about that apparently even for a quick 2min "hey is cool if we do X today". Additionally these two jokers and I am going call them both jokers because really Ben should pushed back on Ted a little bit, did all this with no plan! Swapping a SOHO router is one thing, but cutting over a business to VOIP? It strains credibility. How did they do this? Did the ISP port the existing numbers to a SIP gateway? How was that cut over manged? Have they just abandon their old numbers, how did that get communicated? They have multiple phones so there has to be some internal dial plan, who set that up certainly not Ted in the time Ben was plugging the phones in.
While it might not be hard, even for a small business with a handful for lines, there enough moving parts to VOIP deployment that some planning has to happen, enough planning that I would have though Ben might have piped up at some point and said "oh yeah and we will need phones themselves" at some point prior to cut over.
Admin
Technically, 'best' is a four letter word.
Admin
Much like the "FOX" in "FOX News", "Best" is merely a part of their name, and it has no relation whatsoever to the English word with the same spelling.
Admin
The network had to support the handful of office computers, point-of-sale terminals, a printer, the free customer wi-fi, and a system known as “Impale” that handled all the debit card transactions on the games.
The real WTF isn't to have ONE network for everything ...
Admin
You give customers with random devices access to the same network as your company's private network share and printers?
TR :wtf:
Admin
FTFY
Filed under: 500 Internal Server Error followed by Body is too similar to what you previously posted
Admin
Such Eth loop is very easy to notice, so it should not have gotten too long to get detected.
TRWTF is the lady complaining about a ruined birthday after no more than 10 minutes outage.
Admin
I thought for sure that when VOIP was mentioned that the problem would be that when they cancelled the "normal" phone service that the DSL line that comes along would be cancelled as well. I've heard of it happening, and it might have been this forum.
But I have to admit that a wooden rack in a closet was a good one. Never enough $$$ to do it right, but lots of $$$$ to do it over and over again.
Admin
Do you not know how shitty kids are?
Admin
Penny wise, pound foolish. An ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure. :belt_onion:
Admin
An even bigger :wtf::wtf::wtf: than the network share and printers.
Admin
And of course he couldn't cancel the ADSL because to do so, he also needed to cancel his fixed-line service on the same line, which he couldn't do because he didn't have it. :wtf:
He did eventually resolve it, but I don't remember exactly how, sadly.
Admin
Are you encrypting those connections? If you are (and yes, there are ways to do all of that) it's not too big an issue. However, putting credit card processing on the same network is loopy. Even without the possibility of hacking, it's entirely possible for one misconfigured customer device to stop you from taking money in.
If they were a larger organisation, I'd suggest VLANs. Small business though…
Admin
Using VLANs and no STP? That's a thing?
Admin
There is no technical system that someone somewhere won't Belgium up…
Admin
Endorsed. IPV6's address space should do for the next decades to do everything over the public intarwebz.
Admin
Admin
Admin
I expect the servers weren't fixed properly in it.
Admin
A dumb repeater-type "hub" has no way of knowing about junk like this. A bridge (often sold as a "switch") should be running Spanning Tree Protocol, which will disable ports as necessary to prevent loops. But cheap products (especially un-managed ones) may not support STP. Or it may be disabled by default.
Because USB is a tree topology, not a mesh topology. There's a clear definition of "upsteam" (towards a single root-hub, typically in a computer) and downstream (towards devices.) Attempts to violate this (which requires non-standard cabling) produces a non-functional bus.
Of course, if you're not a networking professional, how would you know that there is a better option?
Of course, the ISP guy should've given them a list of things to buy and scheduled a return visit to install it, not just leave an Ethernet cable and tell them to wing it.
You never worked customer service have you?
Not necessarily a problem, but this was a home-built job and was wobbly. Probably not able to handle the weight. Almost definitely didn't have mounting holes drilled in the right places (he probably just used wood screws to attach the equipment.)
It would've been better to just put that rack-mount server on a table until they could afford to buy a rack.
Admin
Well as others have said, now switches/routers are smart enough, but even so, older hardware may not support STP (and it only takes a single one).
I know for sure that it has happened at work a few years back. Think large government research centre (used to do nuclear research and having a 30 MW thermal research reactor) with approx 1000 employees and then someone finds a network cable lying loose on the floor and picks it up and plugs the end in a network wall socket in order to tidy up.....
No network for anyone, and all switches/routers almost glowing red until the IT staff started pulling plugs between different routers in the various buildings to find the %#"¤%* router causing the problem (and then finding the cable which caused the problem)....
Took two hours to fix i'm told......
Admin