Comment On The Investment Experts

I need to find a way to sucker people out of money. What am I doing here working my @ss off while I could be ripping people off!

Ha! Wachovia. What a bunch of sucks.

Ha. Wachovia. What a bunch of naer-do-wells.

Ok, I'm also not an expert... but from what we see in the legend, shouldn't the rightmost column be any different from its left one? At least in a different filling pattern?

Fifth!

In the end this looks like a normal savings plan. Give them 1000 credits every month and they will invest some 950 of it for you and keep the rest of it for themselves.
So you are already at -5% right from the start. Of, course, they then tell you that you have some 6 to 7% interest rate. Great I say since 7% - 5% is 2%. With an ordinary savings account I can currently make up to 5% and 100% of my money goes into my pocket.

I hate these guys; they once posted the 800 number of my bootstrapping startup (back when 800s cost a lot of money) as a mistake on their mortgage collection notices. That cost me $900 which they refused to pay.

Had I been quick enough I would have used the opportunity to upsell their clients on a remortgaging service.

While the putative reader may not be an investing expert, the copy writers are apparently not grammar experts. It should be "investment expert", should it not? I mean, you wouldn't be investing experts would you? You know, as if you had 100 experts, and you put them to work and got back 110 experts? Somebody also had to work pretty hard to stretch that list of points. For example, a couple of the points involve deciding to invest a greater percentage of your salary, and then actually doing it. How exactly are they going to do that FOR you? As John Travola's character said in Pulp Fiction: "What a gyp..."

What this actually shows is that he's invested more aggressively than they recommend.

Well at least his job pays ~125k/yr. I'd be willing to put up with a couple WTF's for that.

Well, it is certainly honest. That makes for a refreshing change.

If I had realized I would essentially end up in this case, I would never have started on a pension scam. Of course, by the time I figured that out they had already taken most of their "costs" for the entire 30 year period out of my account...

[quote user="Gammer Poleez"]While the putative reader may not be an investing expert, the copy writers are apparently not grammar experts. It should be "investment expert", should it not? I mean, you wouldn't be investing experts would you? You know, as if you had 100 experts, and you put them to work and got back 110 experts? quote]

Or you could get back only 90 experts... Expert investing is tricky business.

Having worked for an investment firm, stupidity is a common requirement for being in such a business; consequently, stupidity is also what they are looking for in a customer. A week after I started the SEC announced it was fining the company $14M for lying to customers about rates of return in marketing charts.

Anonymous Coward:

Well at least his job pays ~125k/yr. I'd be willing to put up with a couple WTF's for that.

No kidding. No sympathy for anyone who's pulling six figures.

my name is missing:

Having worked for an investment firm, stupidity is a common requirement for being in such a business; consequently, stupidity is also what they are looking for in a customer. A week after I started the SEC announced it was fining the company $14M for lying to customers about rates of return in marketing charts.

Reminds me of a Lil Abner series which involved the following business plan:
1. Go to some third world country (Slobbovia).
2. Offer everyone there $1 (an enormous sum in that place) for their land.
3. Someone will think that you knows something they don't about the land, and convince everyone to buy it back for $2.
4. PROFIT!!!

Thus the most profitable business to be in is one capitalizing on human stupidity.

Since when was honesty a WTF?

Dave:

Thus the most profitable business to be in is one capitalizing on human stupidity.

They prefer the term "consultant".

Also, the preferred fictional country is "Elbonia".

Procedural:

I hate these guys; they once posted the 800 number of my bootstrapping startup (back when 800s cost a lot of money) as a mistake on their mortgage collection notices. That cost me $900 which they refused to pay.

Had I been quick enough I would have used the opportunity to upsell their clients on a remortgaging service.

I would have offered to sell the 800 number to them: "Pay me $10,000 buy this number to 'correct' this mistake and avoid losing business. Otherwise I sell it to your main competitor."

Zylon:

Anonymous Coward:

Well at least his job pays ~125k/yr. I'd be willing to put up with a couple WTF's for that.

No kidding. No sympathy for anyone who's pulling six figures.

That's $US though, which aren't worth as much as proper currencies these days.

Man 987876980:

That's $US though, which aren't worth as much as proper currencies these days.

$125k is still not a bad sum.

Zylon:

Anonymous Coward:

Well at least his job pays ~125k/yr. I'd be willing to put up with a couple WTF's for that.

No kidding. No sympathy for anyone who's pulling six figures.

Yipes, that guy's doing 4.7 times my salary! I think he can handle his own retirements fund very well by himself.

akatherder:

Also, the preferred fictional country is "Elbonia".

Oh, great. Now we can have a "Resistance is useless!" "No! Get it right! Resistance is futile!" argument.

I'm right there with you. This is more like a FAIL (failblog.org) to me than a WTF.

danixdefcon5:

I think he can handle his own retirements fund very well by himself.

Knowing how to manage your retirement funds, and being allowed to are two different things.

I work for a big conglomerate, make a pretty good buck, and invest the max, but I can only put it into the choices they provide. If all of the choices suck, then your options are severely limited.

This is why you should roll your 401(k) out of your past employer's plan (so you can manage it yourself if you have the option at your new employer), but never roll it into your new employer's plan.

akatherder:

Also, the preferred fictional country is "Elbonia".

Except that Li'l Abner isn't Dilbert, so it had its own fictional country.

This sweetheart of a deal is obvously from the former First Union side of Wachovia. First Union (or as I liked to call them: F U) made tons of money off fee-based banking, and was held in such low regard that they bought Wachovia solely to whitewash their reputation.

My advice: bank at your local credit union instead.

My advice: bank at your local credit union instead.

My local CU gives about 0.25% interest for interest checking, 0.5% for standard savings accounts and 1.25% for money market.

No thanks.

I can get 1.75% interest checking and 3% savings if I go with a non-local bank instead.

danixdefcon5:

Yipes, that guy's doing 4.7 times my salary! I think he can handle his own retirements fund very well by himself.

Nonono. Don't forget the axiom, "The lifestyle expands to absorb the paycheck allotted."

People are so selfish.

Did you stop to think about how much your $9,000 dollars would help out the struggling Experts(tm) at Wachovia? Mr. Investment Expert has to feed little Investment Jr. and Mrs. Expert!

Think about THAT for a while you jerk!

>My local CU gives about 0.25% interest for interest checking, >0.5% for standard savings accounts and 1.25% for money >market.
>
>No thanks.
>
>I can get 1.75% interest checking and 3% savings if I go with >a non-local bank instead.

That's why opened an account at IndyMac, they had rates a couple of points higher than I could get locally. That worked out great until about 2 weeks ago.

danixdefcon5:

Zylon:

Anonymous Coward:

Well at least his job pays ~125k/yr. I'd be willing to put up with a couple WTF's for that.

No kidding. No sympathy for anyone who's pulling six figures.

Yipes, that guy's doing 4.7 times my salary! I think he can handle his own retirements fund very well by himself.

If you work in the tech industry you are seriously getting ripped off.

I'm not sure where you guys live, but in my area $125K will not make you rich. Certainly not poor by any stretch, but after paying for taxes and housing there's not much left to play with.

Saaid:

>That's why opened an account at IndyMac, they had rates a couple of points higher than I could get locally. That worked out great until about 2 weeks ago.

Me too. $75,000 worth. Fortunately, it's insured. All I need to do is go to the local branch in southern CA (I'm in NY) and they'll be happy to help me.

Otherwise, it's been a back-n-forth cluster fuck up between IM's customer support folks, their "president's office help folks" who had absolutely no clue how to close an account, and the FDIC. So far, everybody is claiming I need to speak to another department to get the money out (one more week and I will sue all of them (I kept track of names and employee numbers) - personally - the law suit will take forever, but the immediate bad publicity over failure to honor deposits should get the FDIC on their case and get it resolved fast).

Personally, I hope there is a big run on that bank and they go under (or at least more under so their board loses their golden parachutes).

First!*

One of these days, I'll discover how to deal with a bank without getting screwed, and I'll make millions (only to get screwed by the bank when I want to do something with it).

* Margin of error: +/-33

Asiago Chow:

My advice: bank at your local credit union instead.

My local CU gives about 0.25% interest for interest checking, 0.5% for standard savings accounts and 1.25% for money market.

No thanks.

I can get 1.75% interest checking and 3% savings if I go with a non-local bank instead.

That's not good. Our credit union pays 5.01% APR on checking account balances. I like that.

shadowman:

If you work in the tech industry you are seriously getting ripped off.

I'm not sure where you guys live, but in my area $125K will not make you rich. Certainly not poor by any stretch, but after paying for taxes and housing there's not much left to play with.

Mexico City. I'm already earning 4x the national family average, though I admit it just isn't enough.

Funny thing is, some stuff will be incredibly cheaper; but tech stuff will usually be about 150% or more over the US price tag! Example: the PS3 had an original price tag of $1100 USD.

snoofle:

Saaid:

>That's why opened an account at IndyMac, they had rates a couple of points higher than I could get locally. That worked out great until about 2 weeks ago.

Me too. $75,000 worth. Fortunately, it's insured. All I need to do is go to the local branch in southern CA (I'm in NY) and they'll be happy to help me.

Otherwise, it's been a back-n-forth cluster fuck up between IM's customer support folks, their "president's office help folks" who had absolutely no clue how to close an account, and the FDIC. So far, everybody is claiming I need to speak to another department to get the money out (one more week and I will sue all of them (I kept track of names and employee numbers) - personally - the law suit will take forever, but the immediate bad publicity over failure to honor deposits should get the FDIC on their case and get it resolved fast).

Personally, I hope there is a big run on that bank and they go under (or at least more under so their board loses their golden parachutes).

I sympathize with your feelings. On the other hand, they probably don't have a lot of experience with going bankrupt, so they don't have procedures in place yet.

(Unlike your typical airline...)

Thanks --

D-Coder

D-Coder:

snoofle:

Me too...

I sympathize with your feelings. On the other hand, they probably don't have a lot of experience with going bankrupt, so they don't have procedures in place yet.

(Unlike your typical airline...)

Thanks --

D-Coder

Based on my interaction with them so far:

10  put 3 minute voice mail announcement detailing that we can't answer your questions on phone

20  disable typeahead so customer must listen to message

30  make phone ring 30+ times before answering

40  if phone-is-answered then if (random() > 0.2) then disconnect

50  if not disconnected then have brain dead monkey tell caller that they can't answer questions and to call president's office

60 if president's office, have brain dead monkey tell caller that they can't do anything and to file claim with fdic

70 if FDIC, tell caller that there is no hold on funds, that the account is insured and to call the bank

80 if caller persists, tell them to come to bank

90 if caller can't come in, tell them to send a notarized letter asking for their money, even through they've already positively id'd themselves

100 inform caller they're backed up 7-10 days and won't get to letter for at least that long

110 tell caller that we basically can't help you

120 go to 10

shadowman:

I'm not sure where you guys live, but in my area $125K will not make you rich. Certainly not poor by any stretch, but after paying for taxes and housing there's not much left to play with.

In my area, $125K would certainly be upper class. Even if you tax it at 33%, you have $82,500 which leaves you with $6,875 per month.

Our monthly bills are about $2500-3000 (including mortgage, utilities, cable, phone, car payment, insurance, groceries, gas, etc.) That leaves you at least $3000 to "play" with.

I work on a competing 401k system to this one, and our system has a similar "advice" feature. Legally, Wachovia cannot advise on 401k investments in which they are the record keeper. Thus, it's really not Wachovia doing the investment advice; if it's anything like my company's setup, it's a third-party software engine that gets fed information such as a participant's age, salary, etc.

During the early days of our implementation, everyone used to laugh how our own investment selection would "beat" the engine's predictions. We had similar WTFs to this one, except not as pronounced (and not as insulting).

I had one that was quite WTF-worthy as well. I inquired to my HR rep and their response was that the financial advisor operated under the assumption that I would never change my investment options.

My investment options, even though I am 27, are fairly balanced.

The system assumes the user is stupid or careless. For those lusers, the system works. For those of us who diversified, we get to read the DailyWTF articles.

Back when I was in North Carolina and Wachovia was a relatively small regional bank, my friends used to say that their slogan was "Bank with us and we'll Wachovia".

By the way, don't take photographs of their headquarters buildings in Charlotte. You'll be hassled by their security thugs. . . I mean guards.

<i>You're not an investment expert...<i>
...but apparently you don't need one.

Could you help us out?

Procedural:

I hate these guys; they once posted the 800 number of my bootstrapping startup (back when 800s cost a lot of money) as a mistake on their mortgage collection notices. That cost me $900 which they refused to pay.

Had I been quick enough I would have used the opportunity to upsell their clients on a remortgaging service.

Maybe people in collections on their mortgage aren't the best target market.

Steve:

Back when I was in North Carolina and Wachovia was a relatively small regional bank, my friends used to say that their slogan was "Bank with us and we'll Wachovia".

By the way, don't take photographs of their headquarters buildings in Charlotte. You'll be hassled by their security thugs. . . I mean guards.

What do they do when you stand on the sidewalk and photograph them?

Every now and then I compare the performance of my 401k to the Dow Jones or S&P 500. And almost always, the averages do better than my 401k. The whole point of the Dow and S&P 500 is supposed to be that they represent the trends in the market as a whole, right?, that is, they are AVERAGES. They should do about as well as any random collection of stocks. So if the experts managing these funds can't even do as well as the averages, wouldn't I be better off buying stocks by going to one of those discount broker web sites, tabbing to the "enter ticker symbol" field, and banging some random keys and see what company I get?

Now that I think about it, that could be a fun game. Pull random Scrablle letters or take the initials of your friends and see if any company is using that as a ticker symbol. If so, buy that stock, whatever it is. Then compare the performance of a portfolio selected that way to the big mutual funds.

Jay:

Every now and then I compare the performance of my 401k to the Dow Jones or S&P 500. And almost always, the averages do better than my 401k.

expenses is the one word answer. The investment companies take a little off the top, so even if you invested in a DJ or S&P 'index fund', your gains would be below the market's, by a varying portion.

That's where companies like vanguard come in - offering no-load, low expense funds.

Well at least they knew how to add correctly. Takes a real expert for that.

"Double you I.Q. or NO MONEY BACK!!"

"Uhh... Okay!!!"

anon:

Since when was honesty a WTF?

Since around the 1950s.

Compare the likelihood that this is "a company wanting investors to know they'll be better off to avoid their services" vs. "invest with us and make more" that got botched... unintentional honesty IS a WTF.