Classic WTF: Behavioral Deficiencies

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  • mott555 2012-04-25 10:10
    We are frist!
  • Noread 2012-04-25 10:10
    SELECT * FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"
  • Johnny 2012-04-25 10:15
    Shawn sounds like an arsehole.
  • TGV 2012-04-25 10:15
    SELECT phrase
    FROM lotr
    WHERE phrase LIKE '%darkness%bind%them';
  • It's a Cock! It's a Fist! It's Zoonerman! 2012-04-25 10:16
    That hooded robe reminds of when I used to stay with my uncle.

    I've never cried so much.
  • AB 2012-04-25 10:17
    We are the Oracle DBA
    Resistance is Futile
    We will arse-stimulate you
  • Peter 2012-04-25 10:19
    Noread:
    SELECT * FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"


    As per OUR new DB guidelines, direct SELECT calls to tables are forbidden. You are required to use a view instead; our DBAs will create the required V_FIRST_POST_VIEW view within our usual business SLA of 5-10 weeks.

    Captcha: saepius - our users are not actually sapient, just saepius.
  • ochrist 2012-04-25 10:22
    Working as a developer, I've met that type of DBA more than once. One particular person had the habit of always refusing change requests, not matter how urgent they were. He insisted that all changes should be submitted in writing several weeks in advance. Needless to say he was laid off. Met him again a couple of times, where he again had been fired at least twice for the same type of behaviour (and basic incompetence). Last I met him, he worked in one of the biggest banks in this area.....
  • wonk 2012-04-25 10:23
    Join us. It does not hurt.
  • RichP 2012-04-25 10:24
    Missed the classic WTF the first time around.

    Somehow the royal "we" seems more befitting an Oracle review board, especially one made up of a single individual.

    "We are displeased with your lack of whitespace in your TPS-1001 application to apply for a modification of a database view permission request."
  • tharpa 2012-04-25 10:24
    One thing that's unusual is that Shawn O, who appears to be the submitter, is the problem. WTF?
  • Kasper 2012-04-25 10:33
    Johnny:
    Shawn sounds like an arsehole.
    Yes, but it does sound like his change of job may actually have been beneficial to both companies. Too strict processes and too little process will both lead to trouble.

    This company probably needed a bit more process, and Shawn liked to enforce process beyond what is reasonable. Mix the two, and with a bit of luck, you end up with a sensible compromise.

    The entire wording of the emails may have a different impact than what the boss suggesting. Using we instead of I may give Shawn's emails more authority, at least in the developers' perception.

    When Shawn wrote things like I have decided, the developers may very well have been thinking "why does this new guy think he is in a position to make decisions?"
  • Denholm Reynholm 2012-04-25 10:34
    Team! Team team team team team! I even love saying the word team!
  • Alex 2012-04-25 10:43
    yepp he does.
  • LetMeFinclOut 2012-04-25 10:47
    Luke, we are your father.
  • Craig 2012-04-25 10:53
    Shawn is an asshat. I may be the architect at our company, but I'm smart enough to know that you have to get team buy-in or people will find ways to end-run your policies. Using "we" instead of "I" is one way to make people feel like they are included. If Shawn can't figure that out he's an immature twit who needs to be sent packing.
  • Julia 2012-04-25 10:55
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”
  • Steve The Cynic 2012-04-25 10:55
    Noread:
    DELETE FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"

    FTFY.
  • Victoria Regina 2012-04-25 10:55
    We are not amused.
  • trtrwtf 2012-04-25 11:14
    "the absurdity of the last hour of his life"

    Okay, this was out of nowhere. When did he get sentenced to death, and how did we find ourselves in a Camus novel?
  • CodeRage 2012-04-25 11:16
    To be honest, while there are many ways this company could improve, using the word "I" too much when trying to build consensus, assert decisions, etc., can appear too personal and aggressive. The boss was just giving some basic communication skills improvements, and while he overdid it, I hardly think he was being an idiot about it. He had probably heard complaints about the DBA, and felt that something as simple as a change of tone in his communications might improve things.
  • Bob 2012-04-25 11:21
    "team buy-in" and other horrible bullshit phrases are created and used by people too stupid to realise that everyone else is sufficiently intelligent that they needn't be treated like retarded children.

    When I do something, I say "I". If I'm talking about something the company has done, I say "we". This is "English".
  • Fred 2012-04-25 11:24
    Again, the futile fight of Man against his Fate

    BTW: Captcha: odio (hate)
  • frits 2012-04-25 11:26
    Boss: "You broke the build, prepare to die!"
    Employee: "We broke the build."
  • ctd 2012-04-25 11:27
    "didn’t seem to hear that, or any of his subsequent “okay,” “will do”, “gotcha”, “allrightythen”, “okie-doke”, “you-betcha” responses."

    Some insist on getting in the last word. Really, the very last word. If you try to sneak in a last word, be it as little as "OK", another 5-minute inundation of last words will be unleashed. Best strategy is to smile, nod, and say _nothing_.
  • EmperorOfCanada 2012-04-25 11:35
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.
  • Kryptus 2012-04-25 11:41
    I just want to say, real WTF is Oracle !
  • JV 2012-04-25 11:44
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.
  • not frits at all 2012-04-25 11:46
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    But there's a 'me' in 'team' !
  • An Oracle DBA 2012-04-25 11:59
    As an Oracle DBA, this has laughing my as off. I've seen so many systems where developers have free rein, and then we have to fix the issues that are caused by this.

    Woops! Sorry! We dropped the production table. It's not our fault that we have privileges!

    Being a complete twit like Shawn doesn't help either. You have to have the right balance of restraints and availability in order to allow your developers to continue doing their job.

    My dev team (at my work place, a dba will be in charge of project) cried when they couldn't run explain plan. 5 minutes later, it was fixed. No paperwork, no nothing. Just a quick mail.
  • iToad 2012-04-25 12:05
    As a software developer with the usual total lack of social skills, I have to admit that I actually learned something useful from this.
  • Mason Wheeler 2012-04-25 12:06
    ochrist:
    Working as a developer, I've met that type of DBA more than once. One particular person had the habit of always refusing change requests, not matter how urgent they were. He insisted that all changes should be submitted in writing several weeks in advance. Needless to say he was laid off.

    That's not needless to say. In plenty of places that sort of behavior is expected!
  • Calli Arcale 2012-04-25 12:08
    trtrwtf:
    "the absurdity of the last hour of his life"

    Okay, this was out of nowhere. When did he get sentenced to death, and how did we find ourselves in a Camus novel?


    "Last" as in "preceding", not "last" as in "final".
  • Ghost 2012-04-25 12:10
    Nice try Shawn.
  • Jerry 2012-04-25 12:22
    There must be some way to combine today's WTF with yesterday's. How about:

    "We do not allow any web apps that count pixels or look at the user-agent string to go live."

    (And what's with posts two days in a row -- even if one is recycled?)
  • The Bytemaster 2012-04-25 12:24
    We are Hugh.
  • Fred 2012-04-25 12:27
    Jerry:
    "We do not allow any web apps that count pixels or look at the user-agent string to go live."
    We should select the user-agent string as the primary key of a database table and get back whether it is mobile or not. Other attributes could be how many pixels the screen has, maybe some chunks of HTML specific to that platform, and the path/name of some JS and CSS files to include.

    Of course any additions or changes to the user-agent table will need to be submitted in writing (paper and pencil writing) four weeks in advance! (To be reviewed by the "architecture committee" i.e. the DBA who is also a user-agent expert.)
  • Indeed 2012-04-25 12:37
    Exactly what I came here to say. The WTF is the manner in which the boss gave the message, not the message itself. Having been on both sides of the fence (and occasionally straddling it while someone pulls on my feet), I know that proper phrasing of relatively simple emails can make a world of difference.
  • Jay 2012-04-25 12:43
    Noread:
    SELECT * FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"


    Syntax error. Unrecognized operator "==" near POST_TEXT.
  • Glory to the Many 2012-04-25 12:44
    We are, we are, we are, we are...
  • Jay 2012-04-25 12:45
    Jay:
    Noread:
    SELECT * FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"


    Syntax error. Unrecognized operator "==" near POST_TEXT.


    And:

    Invalid column name 'Frist!'

    Need I explain that "==" is not a SQL operator, and double-quotes indicate an object name, not a literal.
  • Jay 2012-04-25 12:47
    tharpa:
    One thing that's unusual is that Shawn O, who appears to be the submitter, is the problem. WTF?


    Because arrogant people rarely recognize that the problem is that they are arrogant. Rather, they always see the problem as being that the peasants refuse to submit to their obviously superior wisdom.

    Just minutes ago I came across the following quote in a magazine: "The proud man thinks he is humble. The humble man thinks he is proud."
  • galgorah 2012-04-25 12:47
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.
    As a SQL Server DBA, I'm expected to be working closely with developers. Customer service is a big part of being a DBA. I don't do "pitchfork parades" or wear a robe. I try to help and provide guidance and mentoring on writing better tsql code. I'm not going to chastise you for running that horrible resource intensive code, I'm going to sit down with you one on one and work to optimize the query and help you learn from the experience. I may even suggest other ways of doing something you hadn't thought of.

    That being said, I have to take security and the integrity of production data into account. This is even more important based on the nature of our data. I'm not going to give you sysadmin privileges on servers or db_owner on a database, but I will work with you to figure out what access you actually need.

    As a DBA I try to balance the needs of the business, developers, auditors, etc. It's not that I don't trust my developers, It's that I need to balance your needs and wants while mitigating risk.
  • Bobby 2012-04-25 12:48
    Fred:
    We should select the user-agent string as the primary key of a database table
    Cool. Mine is set to

    '; DROP TABLE SYS_WEB_UA_STRING_LOOKUP_TABLE; --

    I suppose you're not going to let me be a paying customer of your site. :(
  • Sir Twist 2012-04-25 12:51
    Steve The Cynic:
    Noread:
    DELETE FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"

    FTFY.
    No you didn't.
    Msg 102, Level 15, State 1, Line 1
    
    Incorrect syntax near '='.
    Edit: bah, sniped already.
  • Zylon 2012-04-25 13:03
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word.

    The word is "dumbasses". Being a jackass will probably piss off your coworkers, but is unlikely to have any deleterious effect on your coding.
  • geoffrey 2012-04-25 13:20
    I can sympathize with Shawn's boss. It is difficult when someone who wields as much power as a DBA as as rogue, anti-team as Shawn.
  • Josef K. 2012-04-25 13:27
    trtrwtf:
    "the absurdity of the last hour of his life"

    Okay, this was out of nowhere. When did he get sentenced to death, and how did we find ourselves in a Camus novel?


    I think this site should provide more than enough evidence that we are already living in one, although I might have said Kafka.
  • Nite 2012-04-25 13:28
    Bob:
    everyone else is sufficiently intelligent that they needn't be treated like retarded children.


    OMG, stop! You're killing me!

    Work in a large organization. You'll quickly realize that, while many people are sufficiently intelligent to pass for retarded children, there are many who are not. Procedures need to account for both.
  • Vic 2012-04-25 13:46
    The Oracle DBAs I've worked with were strict but reasonable. If you made a reasonable case for a change, they'd come up with a solution which worked for both the developers and the admins.

    Now the network admins... they were Shawn**2. Not only wouldn't they work with the developers, they would arbitrarily make changes without any notification or documentation.
  • Yet Another Steve 2012-04-25 13:50
    iToad:
    As a software developer with the usual total lack of social skills, we have to admit that we actually learned something useful from this.


    FTFY
  • Tucker 2012-04-25 13:59
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. ...”


    Yeah, well there's no 'U' in team either. So if I'm not on the team and you're not on the team,... THERE'S NOBODY ON THE GODDAMN TEAM! The team sucks.
  • Denholm Reynholm 2012-04-25 14:01
    Denholm Reynholm:
    Team! Team team team team team! I even love saying the word team!

    Hello? What? Well if you can't work as a team you're all fired. That's it, you heard me, fired! Get your things and go.
  • my little phony 2012-04-25 14:09
    We quit!
  • trtrwtf 2012-04-25 14:12
    Damn, that's right, 'cause there's no 'he' in team either.
    But wait, there is an 'e in team, so 'e's on the team, and 'e's bloomin' 'appy, too, 'cause there's also a 't' in team. So 'e's alone on the team, and 'e's got a nice cuppa.

    And he's also got some sausages - there's also scrambled 'meat' in team.
  • Jack Foluney 2012-04-25 14:19
    I love dickwad DBAs that say things like: "I'm too busy to help you".

    They're too busy yanking each others nobs.
  • shadowman 2012-04-25 14:32
    Opposite day! The entire story was the WTF, and the part that was presented as the WTF (perhaps in the submitter's mind) was actually the somewhat-reasonable part.

    Calli Arcale:
    trtrwtf:
    "the absurdity of the last hour of his life"

    Okay, this was out of nowhere. When did he get sentenced to death, and how did we find ourselves in a Camus novel?


    "Last" as in "preceding", not "last" as in "final".


    Thanks, Anti-Joke Chicken!
  • AN AMAZING CODER 2012-04-25 14:58
    I love these WTFs that arrogantly miss the point, always misconstruing bosses/managers as idiots and developers/dba's as hot shit. Have none of you been on the other side of that story before?

    The "using we, not I" is actually a good rule to live by. It's not about substituting the word "I" for the word "we", it's about thinking as a team, not as an individual. Obviously individuals on a team are going to have certain responsibilities themselves, but the state-of-mind should be the team.

    Of course, a lot of this could be a problem with the way the company is structured. If the company structured it so that Shawn and the other non-existing DBAs are their own department taking requests from other departments, then of course he's not going to think as part of the team.

    Secondly, Shawn's boss probably kept pounding it into him because he's not an idiot that's easily appeased by Shawn _pretending_ to understand what he was saying just to get him to stop talking.

  • AN AMAZING CODER 2012-04-25 15:04
    Bob:
    "team buy-in" and other horrible bullshit phrases are created and used by people too stupid to realise that everyone else is sufficiently intelligent that they needn't be treated like retarded children.

    When I do something, I say "I". If I'm talking about something the company has done, I say "we". This is "English".


    "Our policy is _______ " vs "My new policy is __________ ".

    "I'm going to require you to write tests before I pull this code" vs "We're required to write tests before code is pulled"

    The outcome is the same, but the meaning and tone is different.

    I hardly see how that's treating people like children, versus throwing a hissy over changing the way you talk to people for the greater good.


    This is EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION.
  • Kevin S 2012-04-25 15:05
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    "There's no 'I' in 'team'."

    "Yeah? Well there's no 'U' either. And if you're not on the team, and I'm not on the team, then no one's on the god-damn team! The team sucks!"
  • Tommy 2012-04-25 15:06
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    Obviously ... the state-of-mind should be the team.
    How is that obvious?

    For example I was recently on a project team. At the end of the project we added up our hours. I worked 120, the other three people worked 12 each. So I did 10 times the work.

    But wait, it gets better. Their 12 hours were all meetings to ask how I was coming along and what I was going to do next. Excuse me, how we were coming along and what we were going to do next.

    So, subtracting my 12 hours in those same meetings, I could have completed the work in 108 hours vs. the 156 actually spent.

    How did my customer benefit from paying for those extra 48 hours, increasing costs by over 40%? Why is that "obviously" better?
  • Someone 2012-04-25 15:39
    Tucker:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. ...”


    Yeah, well there's no 'U' in team either. So if I'm not on the team and you're not on the team,... THERE'S NOBODY ON THE GODDAMN TEAM! The team sucks.


    There's no 'I' in a team, but flip the 'm' and rearrange the letters to get a 'we'. This circus is entirely appropriate given how the so-called managers try to invent a "team spirit" for no reason.

  • dkf 2012-04-25 15:42
    Vic:
    Now the network admins... they were Shawn**2. Not only wouldn't they work with the developers, they would arbitrarily make changes without any notification or documentation.
    Don't forget that they'll categorically deny that they changed anything at all after the fact, and they'll also make it totally clear that they never ever ever EVER change firewall configurations live on the master routers without keeping any kind of backup. (Despite this being common practice in reality, as becomes clear when a backhoe-induced power glitch causes the routers to spontaneously reboot.) After all, this is the same group of people who claim that the network is fine despite their total inability to deploy DHCP (no PXE booting for you!) their crazy custom DNS system, and the fact that they can't keep broadcast packets to any subnet. I could go on but I don't wish to remember all the pain…

    There's a reason why I configure my systems to be not critically dependent on the network actually being there, and to not rely on any kind of firewall between myself and the Big Bad World.
  • Charles Boyung 2012-04-25 16:10
    Johnny:
    Shawn sounds like an arsehole.


    Well, it DID say he's a DBA. Aren't they synonyms?
  • Mr Glass 2012-04-25 16:33
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    Good for you. However in most places you have at least one idiot, and having someone sane as a database protector is a good thing.

    At my previous job, we had one of those "I structure my tables like I do my Java objects"-kind of developers. He was quite proud of his system and obviously thought it rocked. Did I mention I don't work there anymore?

    Moral is, not having a DBA is just like dictatorship. If it's a good Saddam, it's super-efficient and awesome. If not, poverty hits 99% and you lose your arm if coughing after 8 PM.
  • milo 2012-04-25 16:36
    Sounds like Shawn let the "Senior" title go to his head. I agree with his boss.
  • Paul Neumann 2012-04-25 16:43
    Mr Glass:
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    Good for you. However in most places you have at least one idiot, and having someone sane as a database protector is a good thing.

    At my previous job, we had one of those "I structure my tables like I do my Java objects"-kind of developers. He was quite proud of his system and obviously thought it rocked. Did I mention I don't work there anymore?

    Moral is, not having a DBA is just like dictatorship. If it's a good Sodom, it's super-efficient and awesome. If not, poverty hits 99% and you lose your arm if coughing after 8 PM.
    ftfy
  • wbrianwhite 2012-04-25 17:08
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.


    So.... you don't care about any of the traditional benefits of an RDBMS: atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability?
  • LOADING 2012-04-25 17:37
    Whitespace cause for rejection? I would just fix that, accept and send back the changes.
  • Mr.Bob 2012-04-25 17:47
    Mr Glass:
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    Moral is, not having a DBA is just like dictatorship. If it's a good Saddam, it's super-efficient and awesome. If not, poverty hits 99% and you lose your arm if coughing after 8 PM.


    Sounds just like having a DBA, too.

    The Meta-Moral is that having kind and decent co-workers makes any job awesome, while needing to babysit clueless ones can suck the joy out of even the most amazing jobs.
  • Derek 2012-04-25 18:32
    > The developers insisted upon changing things immediately and fixing problems later

    As a developer, I say, WTF?!
  • Simon 2012-04-25 18:43
    Kasper:
    The entire wording of the emails may have a different impact than what the boss suggesting. Using we instead of I may give Shawn's emails more authority, at least in the developers' perception.


    Actually, I suspect that's exactly what the boss had in mind. If something is official policy, the plural "we" helps convey that. Whereas the singular "I" makes you sound like a petty dictator.
  • Zecc 2012-04-25 19:06
    not frits at all:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    But there's a 'me' in 'team' !
    There's also 'meat'. We should have a barbecue!

    And 'mate'... uh, never mind.
  • ContraCorners 2012-04-25 20:29
    Tucker:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. ...”


    Yeah, well there's no 'U' in team either. So if I'm not on the team and you're not on the team,... THERE'S NOBODY ON THE GODDAMN TEAM! The team sucks.
    Oh, you've seen the Red Sox, then.
  • Callin 2012-04-25 20:58
    We would like to play.

  • rosko 2012-04-25 21:37
    not frits at all:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    But there's a 'me' in 'team' !

    A co-worker used to say it as "without M E, there is no team"
  • Cheong 2012-04-25 23:03
    Sir Twist:
    Steve The Cynic:
    Noread:
    DELETE FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"

    FTFY.
    No you didn't.
    Msg 102, Level 15, State 1, Line 1
    
    Incorrect syntax near '='.
    Edit: bah, sniped already.

    Notice the string is surrounded with " instead of '. I think it's reasonable enough to think it's neither MSSQL nor Oracle.
  • Bob 2012-04-25 23:13
    Team is an anagram for meat.
  • wtf 2012-04-25 23:28
    http://teddziuba.com/2009/08/stop-using-the-word-we.html
  • Nomnomynous 2012-04-26 01:58
    rosko:
    not frits at all:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    But there's a 'me' in 'team' !

    A co-worker used to say it as "without M E, there is no team"

    There's no 'I' in 'team'. But there are 6 I's in 'dissociative identity disorder'.



    Although if there's 6 of you that probably counts as a 'we'.
  • Lone Marauder 2012-04-26 02:30
    dkf:
    Vic:
    Now the network admins... they were Shawn**2. Not only wouldn't they work with the developers, they would arbitrarily make changes without any notification or documentation.
    Don't forget that they'll categorically deny that they changed anything at all after the fact, and they'll also make it totally clear that they never ever ever EVER change firewall configurations live on the master routers without keeping any kind of backup. (Despite this being common practice in reality, as becomes clear when a backhoe-induced power glitch causes the routers to spontaneously reboot.) After all, this is the same group of people who claim that the network is fine despite their total inability to deploy DHCP (no PXE booting for you!) their crazy custom DNS system, and the fact that they can't keep broadcast packets to any subnet. I could go on but I don't wish to remember all the pain…

    There's a reason why I configure my systems to be not critically dependent on the network actually being there, and to not rely on any kind of firewall between myself and the Big Bad World.


    You know, not *every* network admin is an ass-covering cowboy. Just like not every DBA is a sanctimonious prick, and not every developer is a demi-god.

    But I'm sure you'll figure that out once you've moved on to your *second* professional job.
  • Matt Westwood 2012-04-26 02:30
    rosko:
    not frits at all:
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'. But then there's no 'I' in 'useless smug colleague', either. And there's four in 'platitude-quoting idiot'. Go figure.”

    But there's a 'me' in 'team' !

    A co-worker used to say it as "without M E, there is no team"


    So if you kick "me" out of the team, you get thanked for it: you get "ta".

    That sobers a man up.
  • linepro 2012-04-26 02:50
    <drumroll>
    But if you look really hard you'll find a me.....
    </drumroll>
  • +9 2012-04-26 03:04
    We think it is a real classic, one good guy busts many bad guys by the team synergy ways. Shawn must go on!
  • LarryDavid 2012-04-26 03:23
    Bob:

    "Our policy is _______ " vs "My new policy is __________ ".


    sorry, but they both sound like bollocks to me.

    What's wrong with "THE new policy is".

    Avoid any responsibility!

    "Sorry, it's THE policy"
  • dkf 2012-04-26 04:15
    Lone Marauder:
    You know, not *every* network admin is an ass-covering cowboy.
    Sure, and the team that handle the external networking — as opposed to the internal net — are very good and approachable; yes, they'll make sure you understand the consequences of your request, but that's just fair. Internal networking are a shambles managed by an ass-covering clown who thinks that he's a dictator. It wouldn't be nearly so frustrating if it wasn't for the fact that it's clear (even from examples form within the same organization) that there are better ways of running things. Better yet, once you can get past the manager and talk to one of the poor folk on the ground, you find out that they know that things are wrong too and want to improve…

    They're not the most dysfunctional part of round here, but they're close. (By comparison, the DBAs are reasonable and the devs mostly just need more experience.)
  • TheJonB 2012-04-26 04:53
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    I love these WTFs that arrogantly miss the point, always misconstruing bosses/managers as idiots and developers/dba's as hot shit. Have none of you been on the other side of that story before?


    I agree, the boss has clearly spotted an "us and them" situation developing
    between dba and dev and is trying to defuse it with a gentle prod.

    That said DBA's do tend to be arses.
  • L. 2012-04-26 08:38
    Bob:
    "team buy-in" and other horrible bullshit phrases are created and used by people too stupid to realise that everyone else is sufficiently intelligent that they needn't be treated like retarded children.

    When I do something, I say "I". If I'm talking about something the company has done, I say "we". This is "English".

    if ( people_too_stupid_percentage > .5) {
    comms_mode='say_WE';
    }

    This is reality (or Sparta)
  • L. 2012-04-26 08:38
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.

    nice trolling :)
  • L. 2012-04-26 08:42
    Jay:
    tharpa:
    One thing that's unusual is that Shawn O, who appears to be the submitter, is the problem. WTF?


    Because arrogant people rarely recognize that the problem is that they are arrogant. Rather, they always see the problem as being that the peasants refuse to submit to their obviously superior wisdom.

    Just minutes ago I came across the following quote in a magazine: "The proud man thinks he is humble. The humble man thinks he is proud."


    That's no magazine, it's a kung fu movie transcript
  • Anonymous 2012-04-26 08:43
    Tried to picture bing [Oracle DBA robe] (no quotes) and got 4 pictures, only 2 of them have something to do with robes:

    The Query:
    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Oracle+DBA+robe&go=&qs=ds&form=QBIR

    The Results (from a Switzerland IP):
    http://www.davidgis.fr/download/denisemilani_9qww9c.jpg
    http://www.davidgis.fr/download/denisemilani_2m7glyd.jpg

    Might not precisely reflect the word sense in the article, but at least there's some darkness...
  • L. 2012-04-26 08:47
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    I love these WTFs that arrogantly miss the point, always misconstruing bosses/managers as idiots and developers/dba's as hot shit. Have none of you been on the other side of that story before?

    The "using we, not I" is actually a good rule to live by. It's not about substituting the word "I" for the word "we", it's about thinking as a team, not as an individual. Obviously individuals on a team are going to have certain responsibilities themselves, but the state-of-mind should be the team.

    Of course, a lot of this could be a problem with the way the company is structured. If the company structured it so that Shawn and the other non-existing DBAs are their own department taking requests from other departments, then of course he's not going to think as part of the team.

    Secondly, Shawn's boss probably kept pounding it into him because he's not an idiot that's easily appeased by Shawn _pretending_ to understand what he was saying just to get him to stop talking.


    The "WE" talk exists only to protect people against their own insecurity - it's wise to use it but that has nothing to do with a team and everything to do with wanting insecure people feel safe reading you.
  • L. 2012-04-26 08:48
    Vic:
    The Oracle DBAs I've worked with were strict but reasonable. If you made a reasonable case for a change, they'd come up with a solution which worked for both the developers and the admins.

    Now the network admins... they were Shawn**2. Not only wouldn't they work with the developers, they would arbitrarily make changes without any notification or documentation.

    Seems like you haven't met many security "experts" ;) //
  • Fed Up with Incompetence 2012-04-26 09:17
    LAME!
  • West Mattwood 2012-04-26 10:41
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'...
    No, but there is a 'U' in 'cunt'.
  • PotatoEngineer 2012-04-26 11:30
    There is no "F" in "way".
  • 3rd Ferguson 2012-04-26 11:55
    L.:
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    I love these WTFs that arrogantly miss the point, always misconstruing bosses/managers as idiots and developers/dba's as hot shit. Have none of you been on the other side of that story before?

    The "using we, not I" is actually a good rule to live by. It's not about substituting the word "I" for the word "we", it's about thinking as a team, not as an individual. Obviously individuals on a team are going to have certain responsibilities themselves, but the state-of-mind should be the team.

    Of course, a lot of this could be a problem with the way the company is structured. If the company structured it so that Shawn and the other non-existing DBAs are their own department taking requests from other departments, then of course he's not going to think as part of the team.

    Secondly, Shawn's boss probably kept pounding it into him because he's not an idiot that's easily appeased by Shawn _pretending_ to understand what he was saying just to get him to stop talking.


    The "WE" talk exists only to protect people against their own insecurity - it's wise to use it but that has nothing to do with a team and everything to do with wanting insecure people feel safe reading you.


    It's more than that. It goes both ways. Rather than the fuck-up being YOUR fault and YOUR problem, the fuck-up is now nobody's fault and OUR problem. If you're an otherwise sharp guy who made a huge mistake, this mentality is a real boost.

    However, this can lead to coddling of weak team members, so be sure to only hire people who are worthy of it.
  • mystery meat 2012-04-26 12:45
    There's no "U" in "TEAM". Get the hell out.
  • WTF-land braver 2012-04-26 13:09
    Bob:
    "team buy-in" and other horrible bullshit phrases are created and used by people too stupid to realise that everyone else is sufficiently intelligent that they needn't be treated like retarded children.

    When I do something, I say "I". If I'm talking about something the company has done, I say "we". This is "English".
    I used to be an individualistic asshole like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee...

    Just kidding - I actually agree with you. Whooops. We agree.
  • Meep 2012-04-26 13:55
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    I imagine that when you accidentally wipe out or, worse, corrupt some data and your customers sue you, you'll also be "smart" enough to represent yourselves in court.
  • Meep 2012-04-26 14:08
    Cheong:
    Sir Twist:
    Steve The Cynic:
    Noread:
    DELETE FROM POSTS WHERE POST_TEXT == "Frist!"

    FTFY.
    No you didn't.
    Msg 102, Level 15, State 1, Line 1
    
    Incorrect syntax near '='.
    Edit: bah, sniped already.

    Notice the string is surrounded with " instead of '. I think it's reasonable enough to think it's neither MSSQL nor Oracle.


    Transact-SQL will accept double-quotes to indicate string literals if certain kludgey settings are active. SQLite's dialect will accept ==.

    But you obviously don't _really_ know SQL, in the biblical sense... POST_TEXT = "Frist!" means compare the field named POST_TEXT and the field named Frist!. According to the ANSI standard, double-quotes mark an identifier. Yeah, I know, SQL is TRWTF.
  • Nagesh 2012-04-26 14:35
    DBA - Din Bhar Aaram. Loose translation in English mean - Whole Day Rest!

    That is term we use for these good for nothings whose only job is to learn unix cp command and get in position of authority and make other beg for request to be honored.
  • Flashier 2012-04-26 15:11
    Fed Up with Incompetence:
    LAME!

    FTFY
  • Zylon 2012-04-26 15:17
    PotatoEngineer:
    There is no "F" in "way".

    You can't spell SLAUGHTER without LAUGHTER.
  • The Great Lobachevsky 2012-04-26 16:30
    I knew I was living in a Camus novel when I had to write a report on him in English class, and the only one of his books my high school library had was a copy of L’Étranger (in French!)

    (sadly, I'm not kidding...)
  • aliquot 2012-04-26 16:44
    Mr Glass:
    Moral is, not having a DBA is just like dictatorship. If it's a good Saddam, it's super-efficient and awesome. If not, poverty hits 99% and you lose your arm if coughing after 8 PM.
    Ha! Taking this for my .sig.
  • Daniel 2012-04-26 17:15
    Shawn sounds like a crustacean, too old and bitter to be of any use at a modern software company. He should go support legacy Oracle installs elsewhere. Ideally somewhere that allows him to hide forever behind reams of time-wasting process and policy.
  • AN AMAZING CODER 2012-04-26 17:22
    LarryDavid:
    Bob:

    "Our policy is _______ " vs "My new policy is __________ ".


    sorry, but they both sound like bollocks to me.

    What's wrong with "THE new policy is".

    Avoid any responsibility!

    "Sorry, it's THE policy"



    Agree.

    But, I'm assuming a possesive though, as per the WTF where his use of "I" is the subject of the meeting.

  • da Doctah 2012-04-26 17:37
    frits:
    Boss: "You broke the build, prepare to die!"
    Employee: "We broke the build."


    "We're a little hung over today. We think we're going to throw up."
  • Gibbon1 2012-04-27 01:51
    rosko:
    A co-worker used to say it as "without M E, there is no team"


    I have a friend with a jumper that has written on the back "There is no fuck you in team"
  • L. 2012-04-27 02:17
    The Great Lobachevsky:
    I knew I was living in a Camus novel when I had to write a report on him in English class, and the only one of his books my high school library had was a copy of L’Étranger (in French!)

    (sadly, I'm not kidding...)


    Dude, translating Camus would be a crime. I just started reading the Dune saga in english and I believe the french translation was a crime. traduttore tradittore, learn languages and fck translations.
  • JV 2012-04-27 02:18
    After 16 years in this career, wiped/corrupt data has only occurred two times (at different companies)

    In both situations, the issues were caused by the actual DBA...

    ... ...

    Drink that up for awhile, then come back and pretend your comment still has merit. I laughed.

    Hint: if at all possible, don't hire idiots, in any role. It's sad that this is a luxury not many of us can control.
  • L. 2012-04-27 02:19
    Daniel:
    Shawn sounds like a crustacean, too old and bitter to be of any use at a modern software company. He should go support legacy Oracle installs elsewhere. Ideally somewhere that allows him to hide forever behind reams of time-wasting process and policy.

    You do realize SQL rocks and is far too advanced and powerful a tool to handle to most devs right ? Increasingly so when your devs only do web or java.
    Ok Oracle sucks, but don't put pgsql in the same basket, thx.
  • Echber the Other 2012-04-27 02:28
    AN AMAZING CODER:
    I love these WTFs that arrogantly miss the point, always misconstruing bosses/managers as idiots and developers/dba's as hot shit. Have none of you been on the other side of that story before?


    Are you for real? The DBA who wears robes, dims lights, and tosses out proposals for lack of whitespace or just for the hell of it? He's being painted as hot shit?
  • Denholm 2012-04-27 04:15
    Team! Team, team, team, team, team! I even love saying the word "team"!
  • Denholm, or not 2012-04-27 04:17
    Denholm:
    Team! Team, team, team, team, team! I even love saying the word "team"!

    *slap* Someone beat me to it. This comes of not working as a team!
  • Severity One 2012-04-27 04:56
    I find that this story paints a rather stereotypical and unfair image of Oracle DBAs. Our DBAs are, without exception, friendly, approachable and most of all helpful people, and they've really made an effort to cut down on the human sacrifices.
  • TheJonB 2012-04-27 05:34
    Fed Up with Incompetence:
    LAME!

    Please show some sensitivity, I had a son who was a DBA and let me assure you it's no laughing matter.
  • The Sound of One Toe Tapping 2012-04-27 08:04
    Flashier:
    Fed Up with Incompetence:
    LAME!

    FTFY


    What I look forward to every morning is seeing an old article that never changes. Brought to me by the daily wtf.
  • NerdF 2012-04-27 09:38
    Maybe someone has already posted this - but its not like I do care...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGFGD5pj03M
  • trtrwtf 2012-04-27 10:19
    The Great Lobachevsky:
    I knew I was living in a Camus novel when I had to write a report on him in English class, and the only one of his books my high school library had was a copy of L’Étranger (in French!)

    (sadly, I'm not kidding...)


    That sounds more like Kafka, frankly. Or Steve Meretzky, maybe.
  • Emperor Norton 2012-04-28 13:23
    Small tweak in someone's behaviour who wasn't getting along with the team. Over time, this probably fixed at least some of the "who does he think he is, this new guy!" problem just by a small change in language.

    And he did it without finger pointing.

    I tip my bonnet to you, sir.
  • Severity One 2012-04-30 04:19
    Denholm:
    Team! Team, team, team, team, team! We even love saying the word "team"!

    FTFY
  • Gbuttius 2012-05-01 03:31
    Julia:
    “There's no 'I' in 'team'.


    there is in tiiiiiiiiiiim
  • Batholomew Taps 2012-05-01 06:58
    Do you honestly think using the word "I" instead of "we" was the underlying problem in this case?

    Teams are made of individuals, like it or not. As soon as work is assigned to an individual, you now have individual responsibility. If any of those individuals were hired for their knowledge or skills, you have a reason to grant them some authority.

    Where things break down is fuzzy or overlapping boundaries between authority and responsibility. The "we" thing is part of a wider move toward collectivising responsibility and centralising authority at the manager. This leaves the door open to shoddy work, and devalues the skills of everybody (except the manager).

    It's nothing more than managerial sleight-of-hand. Where did the "individual fees pressured by responsbility" card go? Oh look, it vanished. Where did the "individual ego-trips on authority" card go? It vanished too! Wow, that's magic!

    And yet software still remains buggy, and teams still fail, no matter how assiduously these practices are observed. The only difference is, now people remain smug for longer, right up until nearly the end of the team lifecycle, and the collapse of teams is accompanied by wide-eyed surprise. "I didn't do any work for the last six months but we were an amazing team" is something I have actually heard said.

    Commenters who applaud the manager in this story have all missed the very last bit - where Shaun admits adding beaurocracy by refusing to expediate requests that he would have agreed to before. Does that make him an asshat? Nope, all that has happened is that moving from "I" to "we" has undermined his authority, whilst allowing him a chance to reduce his responsibility. He has made this trade-off - just like everybody does in that situation. The team appears more harmonious, and is a more pleasent place for insecure/incompetent members, but it is less effective now.
  • Laura 2012-05-02 06:08
    Kasper:


    The entire wording of the emails may have a different impact than what the boss suggesting. Using we instead of I may give Shawn's emails more authority, at least in the developers' perception.

    When Shawn wrote things like I have decided, the developers may very well have been thinking "why does this new guy think he is in a position to make decisions?"


    Actually that's true.
    When you say "I" in a message to a group, that's exactly the first reaction, especially when you are talking about rules, regulations and standards that were decided upon as a group.

    Take a random rule, say "use a DB broker instead of direct statements". Sure, it was decided by the DBA as a one-man team, but the whole company agreed that the DBA makes the rules regarding the DB. Sure, everyone is free to challenge a rule, but not on a case-by-case basis and a rule must be respected for as long as it's in place, with all the advantages and disadvantages.

    So the attitude at the end of the post is the correct one. "We" agreed on the current chain of responsibility, therefore "we" must follow the rules.

    "We" also implies a mutual validation that gives the authority that "I" simply does not have.
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:11
    I don't understand why Shawn was described as positive character here, when he was clearly one of those narrow-minded DBA dicks described just right in the first paragraph of that same story. Seriously...
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:12
    appellatio:
    I don't understand why Shawn was described as positive character here, when he was clearly one of those narrow-minded DBA dicks described just right in the first paragraph of that same story. Seriously...



    correction: first 2 paragraphs; before "A New Opportunity"
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:21
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.


    When will DBAs (generally) grasp that databases are nothing more than data-fucking-stores, one of many various available, needless to say, and that pretty much every developer can complete the job (generally) literally without a DB expert in the house.
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:21
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    Are you hiring?
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:27
    An Oracle DBA:
    As an Oracle DBA, this has laughing my as off. I've seen so many systems where developers have free rein, and then we have to fix the issues that are caused by this.

    Woops! Sorry! We dropped the production table. It's not our fault that we have privileges!

    Being a complete twit like Shawn doesn't help either. You have to have the right balance of restraints and availability in order to allow your developers to continue doing their job.

    My dev team (at my work place, a dba will be in charge of project) cried when they couldn't run explain plan. 5 minutes later, it was fixed. No paperwork, no nothing. Just a quick mail.


    You exaggerated a little bit: nobody sane develops on production database to even be in situation to accidentally drop a table. While accidentally deleting db objects is certainly possible and perhaps even not seldom, DBAs should not restrict databases in DEV environment so much that developing and fixing accidental errors is impossible without them. I often make SQL changes on my own instance, which I then pass to DBA for review and application to dev db, mostly to avoid this DBA crap.
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:32
    Jay:
    tharpa:
    One thing that's unusual is that Shawn O, who appears to be the submitter, is the problem. WTF?


    Because arrogant people rarely recognize that the problem is that they are arrogant. Rather, they always see the problem as being that the peasants refuse to submit to their obviously superior wisdom.

    Just minutes ago I came across the following quote in a magazine: "The proud man thinks he is humble. The humble man thinks he is proud."


    I read that phrase 3 times, and I can't understand it. I think that the usage of word "proud" is wrong here. There's got to be a better word, e.g. "asshole".
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:37
    galgorah:
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.
    As a SQL Server DBA, I'm expected to be working closely with developers. Customer service is a big part of being a DBA. I don't do "pitchfork parades" or wear a robe. I try to help and provide guidance and mentoring on writing better tsql code. I'm not going to chastise you for running that horrible resource intensive code, I'm going to sit down with you one on one and work to optimize the query and help you learn from the experience. I may even suggest other ways of doing something you hadn't thought of.

    That being said, I have to take security and the integrity of production data into account. This is even more important based on the nature of our data. I'm not going to give you sysadmin privileges on servers or db_owner on a database, but I will work with you to figure out what access you actually need.

    As a DBA I try to balance the needs of the business, developers, auditors, etc. It's not that I don't trust my developers, It's that I need to balance your needs and wants while mitigating risk.


    If all DBA's are like what you described yourself, this topic would not exist (which would be good). Unfortunately, most DBA's think that the development (or the company) wouldn't be able to exist without them.

    Similar goes for desktop support people and network ops.

    DBAs, desktop and network support exist to cater development and production, which is why company exists (development and production not necessarily relating to software).
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 09:52
    Mr Glass:
    JV:
    This is why WE do not have a DBA on our team. We're smart enough to be developers AND handle the database as well.


    Good for you. However in most places you have at least one idiot, and having someone sane as a database protector is a good thing.

    At my previous job, we had one of those "I structure my tables like I do my Java objects"-kind of developers. He was quite proud of his system and obviously thought it rocked. Did I mention I don't work there anymore?

    Moral is, not having a DBA is just like dictatorship. If it's a good Saddam, it's super-efficient and awesome. If not, poverty hits 99% and you lose your arm if coughing after 8 PM.


    With minor exceptions that are mostly related to tables driving reports (for performance reasons), tables SHOULD mimic applications objects! Databases (and tables therein) serve one purpose and one purpose only: to keep (store) data generated and used by the applications. Databases (and their god-administrators) are actually both replaceable (e.g. devs can relatively quickly switch to other data-store systems, equivalently useful, and most DBA's won't be able to accommodate quickly, cause they are most one-system-only "experts").
  • appellatio 2012-05-02 10:07
    wbrianwhite:
    EmperorOfCanada:
    Oracle DBAs like this douche are why WE went with MongoDB. Development with Mongo trusts the developers to not be jackasses; trust being the operative word. If you can't trust a developer then get a new developer. Not trusting them results in scaring the good ones away.


    So.... you don't care about any of the traditional benefits of an RDBMS: atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability?


    WTF are you talking about? RDBMS means RELATIONAL database system. Read: data stored in tables that CAN link one to another for EASIER and QUICKER data joins. Do you honestly think there's a developer that doesn't understand this and that can't do this without you?

    There's a place for performance improvements that may include tables to be rearranged and similar. Any average developer can figure this out also without a DBA. Given that a developer team will typically have at least one senior developer (experienced), there probably isn't a true senior developer who doesn't already understand these things. So, we really don't need you beyond organizing backups, and perhaps help out with data transfers or similar, and watching out for patches and upgrades to the DB server. Got it? Even those things we could do without you, but we have better things to do. You should be paid hourly, under 25. That's how I value a DBA position.

    When it comes to more complex (distributed) database servers, perhaps there we need you to set up and monitor (cause, mostly, I don't want to spend time to research for that one-time thing of setting up distributed SQL servers - even though, I really wanted to, I'm smart enough to understand and implement that, too).

    * * *

    Usage of word "I" above also means "developer" (or a "team").
  • AnAssholeDBA 2012-05-03 12:21
    Assholism comes into two forms, through experience or inherent ability; nurture or nature.

    Assholes exist at every level of the software development process. Those in administrative positions tend to be the most annoying. A DBA that works well with the developers is treasure to behold. One that thwarts all developer activities is hemorrhoid. Developers that think all DBAs are useless and only exist as road blocks are most likely arrogant assholes themselves. A developer whose only unfortunate experience has been to deal with asshole DBAs will exist in despair.

    If a DBA is working with a mix of dumbass and talented developers, he must follow the draconian policies to protect the database from the dumbasses screwing things up. If effective socialization of the policies has been completed, the talented developers will understand and begrudgingly follow them; while the dumbasses will just think the DBAs are being cruel assholes.

    As a DBA that has worked in organizations that had both ends of the spectrum (mostly dumbasses or mostly talented), I have been an asshole and a helpful member of the team. As an asshole I have cloaked myself under layers of policies and procedures. As a team member I have demonstrated and explained better methods to effectively deliver new software.
  • Rachel 2012-05-14 07:49
    Sounds like a case of an arsehole employee ending up with the arsehole employer and arsehole colleagues he deserved. Amazing how often that happens.
  • Haakon 2012-05-14 19:45
    Seriously now, it should be pretty obvious that in any shop where the Oracle DBAs hold any sway, they will use parametrized queries, and will have a standard fallback to use in case the user agent weren't found.

    While this means that the site may not be perfect, it will at least work. Perhaps it will even do statistics of which user strings were the most used, so that it might be supported in the future.
  • Deckard 2012-06-11 15:07
    in "The IT crowd" of course!
  • Cbuttius 2012-08-14 06:00

    TEIAM:

    ftfy - there is now.