Creating a Lead Developer

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  • TJ 2006-10-30 12:08
    Managers + programming = FAILURE<br />
  • Saladin 2006-10-30 12:11
    Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?
  • James 2006-10-30 12:12
    I&#39;m pretty sure that this could beat all the other entries to date.&nbsp; Hacks, cracks, and sloppy patch-up jobs I&#39;ve seen; I&#39;ve heard many a tale of sales staff that never say no, and sell stuff that doesn&#39;t exist yet, but... this simply boggles the mind.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />
  • djork 2006-10-30 12:17
    Wow. I bet The Boss cries himself to sleep at night.
  • accident 2006-10-30 12:20
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Saladin&quot;]Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?[/quote] </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>ya i noticed that too.. I was in the middle of reading it (didnt have a chance on friday) when i accidently hit refresh button and then it was gone....</p>
  • Tann San 2006-10-30 12:20
    <p>ner I bet he laughs himself to sleep every night:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>HA Ha HA ha! Wait till they see what I invented tonight....</p>
  • Gieron 2006-10-30 12:26
    <p>You can find the foxpro article on Google cache. For now anyway.<br /></p><p>http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:C76UzgEr8EwJ:thedailywtf.com/+the+daily+wtf&amp;hl=sv&amp;gl=se&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;client=firefox-a <br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Anonymous 2006-10-30 12:32
    <p>This is actually several steps up from normal management ...<br /></p><p>Normally they just promise stuff, this one actually prototypes and checks it in under version control ...<br /></p>
  • dande 2006-10-30 12:36
    <p>Clearly not a position that fit the NON-WTF Jobs :)&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]</p><p>I think J.F.&#39;s reaction was somewhere between <em>holy-crap-an-actual-programming-job-in-the-post-tech-boom</em> and w<em>ait-a-minute-he-didn&#39;t-even-ask-a-single-programming-question</em>. But no matter, J.F. couldn&#39;t pass up the opportunity and accepted the offer. He was officially a programmer.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>This shows that the saying &#39;If it sounds to good to be true, it probably isn&#39;t&#39; has some merits.<br /></p>
  • bramster 2006-10-30 12:37
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Saladin&quot;]Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It was eaten by a Diebold Voting Machine.&nbsp; Now there&#39;s a WTF!&nbsp;</p>
  • mouseover 2006-10-30 12:37
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Saladin&quot;]Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?[/quote]</p><p>A WTF on the WTF?&nbsp;</p><p>On topic: Once learned about a new application I was supposed to develop from scratch after the company owner started promoting it on the company web site.&nbsp;</p>
  • Daniel 2006-10-30 12:41
    <p>This guy really should be beaten to death with a programming manual... or maybe a managing manual...</p><p>Should be beaten up with the &quot;easiest to get&quot; manual...</p><p>WAF<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Renan renan_s2 2006-10-30 12:45
    <p>This is like what happens to some programmers I know. Picture this:</p><p>&nbsp;<br />- Client that doesn&#39;t know exactly what he wants (OK, I understand, sometimes it is difficult to make a picture of what you EXACTLY need)&nbsp;</p><p>- Boss that only think about money, doesn&#39;t know much about programming and wants everything done &quot;for yesterday&quot;.</p><p>- Programmers that have to follow the instructions of the boss, or they are fired! Since they can&#39;t do a good job so quick, they have to &quot;throw the bomb&quot; (the badly-done program) into the client&#39;s hands. <br />&nbsp;</p><p>Result? Bad software (large bugs, no QA, ugly hacks, etc...).<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • djork 2006-10-30 12:47
    Anonymous:
    <p>This is like what happens to some programmers I know. Picture this:</p><p>&nbsp;<br />- Client that doesn&#39;t know exactly what he wants (OK, I understand, sometimes it is difficult to make a picture of what you EXACTLY need)&nbsp;</p><p>- Boss that only think about money, doesn&#39;t know much about programming and wants everything done &quot;for yesterday&quot;.</p><p>- Programmers that have to follow the instructions of the boss, or they are fired! Since they can&#39;t do a good job so quick, they have to &quot;throw the bomb&quot; (the badly-done program) into the client&#39;s hands. <br />&nbsp;</p><p>Result? Bad software (large bugs, no QA, ugly hacks, etc...).<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>


    Result: my job!
  • Renan renan_s2 2006-10-30 12:53
    [quote user=&quot;mouseover&quot;]<p>On topic: Once learned about a new application I was supposed to develop from scratch after the company owner started promoting it on the company web site.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This reminds me of this Hackles comic strip:</p><p>http://www.hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=195</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • bauer 2006-10-30 13:21
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]The Boss took up residency in a corner of the third floor. He had a shower, bed, dresser, and all of the other living amenities one would need to live in an office building. More strangely, he would &quot;work from home&quot; some days, presumably to save the dreaded commute to his second-floor office.[/quote]</p><p>This one remind me of an interview I had gone on once. It was in this guys house - which was also the &quot;corporate headquarters&quot;. There were two other people there, a secratery and the tech support I suppose ( now that I think about it, they did have that help me break from here kind of look). My interview was on me sitting on his couch. As well, while I was waiting for him, I was looking around on his bookshelf, and found about 6 different boxes of business cards for this, ranging from (as I recall) CEO to phsycologist.</p><p>&nbsp;Ahh, memories - at least they are behind me :o)</p>
  • Cody 2006-10-30 13:23
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Saladin&quot;]Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?[/quote]</p><p>Perhaps the company saw it and threatened legal action because they didn&#39;t want to look too [Captcha]enterprisey[/Captcha].&nbsp;</p>
  • pbounaix 2006-10-30 13:23
    as sad as this is, its actually quite common. (well, maybe not the shower part, but then again...)
  • abx 2006-10-30 13:31
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Saladin&quot;]Is it just me, or did Friday&#39;s FoxPro WTF vanish from the front page?[/quote]Bet Alex lost his code snippets, and now wants to pretend that the new syndication announcement never happened :P</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><span style="font-weight: bold">Oh say it isn&#39;t so!!</span>&nbsp;</p>
  • Milkshake 2006-10-30 13:33
    [quote user=&quot;dande&quot;] <p>Clearly not a position that fit the NON-WTF Jobs :)&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]</p><p>I think J.F.&#39;s reaction was somewhere between <em>holy-crap-an-actual-programming-job-in-the-post-tech-boom</em> and w<em>ait-a-minute-he-didn&#39;t-even-ask-a-single-programming-question</em>. But no matter, J.F. couldn&#39;t pass up the opportunity and accepted the offer. He was officially a programmer.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>This shows that the saying &#39;If it sounds to good to be true, it probably isn&#39;t&#39; has some merits.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Not quite as many merits as the saying &quot;If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.&quot;</p>
  • GoatCheez 2006-10-30 13:48
    <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Billy Oblivion 2006-10-30 13:55
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>This guy really should be beaten to death with a programming manual... or maybe a managing manual...</p><p>Should be beaten up with the &quot;easiest to get&quot; manual...</p><p>WAF<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You would do that to a book? </p><p>This is precisely what lead pipes were invented for.</p><p>And elbow length rubber gloves. And vinyl aprons. &nbsp;</p><p>Goggles or a face shield are probably a good ideal too. Wouldn&#39;t want to get any on you. <br /></p>
  • kipthegreat 2006-10-30 13:57
    [quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;]<p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p>
  • CodeRage 2006-10-30 14:00
    Please please please tell me what city this was in!<br />
  • GrandmasterB 2006-10-30 14:01
    <p>JF should be glad it was only the boss.&nbsp; I once worked at a place that had a <em>whole sales staff</em> that would routinely sell program modules&nbsp;we didnt have in that manner.&nbsp; They&#39;d go out to the customer, write up the contract complete with &#39;cost estimate&#39;, and then come back and act like heroes.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, they&#39;d flip out in disbelief when we&#39;d tell them the new functionality would take 6 months, not&nbsp;3-4 days, and that development cost would be far larger than what they were charging the customer, meaning we&#39;d lose money on the deal.&nbsp; </p><p>Though, to be fair, at least the sales people werent coding!&nbsp; We were lucky they could manage to remember where the on switch was on their laptop.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • ptomblin 2006-10-30 14:30
    [quote user=&quot;mouseover&quot;]<p>On topic: Once learned about a new application I was supposed to develop from scratch after the company owner started promoting it on the company web site.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Same thing happened to me at &quot;Gold&quot;.&nbsp; I took over developing a new pet project of the boss before I knew the program well enough to really do something like that, and one day I was sitting there listening to him talk about it to an existing customer he started telling this customer about a bazillion things that this new project could do, none of which he&#39;d told me about before.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Pardon me while I head back to the drawing board.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Ghost Ware Wizard 2006-10-30 14:36
    <p>&lt;run fast&gt; J.F. had the right idea, albeit 2 years and 11.75 mos. after his initial employment.</p><p>&lt;the idiots are everywhere....and they keep following me around..../&gt;</p>
  • NZ'er 2006-10-30 14:39
    [quote user=&quot;CodeRage&quot;]Please please please tell me what city this was in!<br />[/quote]

    As the submitter of this I won&#39;t say what city but it was in New Zealand if that Helps.<br />
  • Sizer 2006-10-30 14:42
    <p>This is just the extreme version of something that&#39;s pretty common in my experience. The Manager who would much rather be a Developer. Development is, after all, much more fun.</p><p>At my previous job the VP of Engineering made no secret of the fact that he hated to manage and would much rather be developing, so instead of managing he generally led development projects, and he had a couple major components he was responsible for... the trouble was that besides a big lack of management in the company (some is good!) he wasn&#39;t all that great at programming, so I had to code my stuff to work around him doing things like:</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; f = open( &quot;filename&quot;, &quot;rb&quot; );<br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; read( f, buffer, 128 );<br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; close(f);<br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [ do something critical with buffer here that will core dump if it&#39;s not correct ]<br />&nbsp;</p><p>After all, what could <strong>possibly</strong> go wrong? Then when his code exploded he&#39;d always blame my stuff (since my stuff did the real work on the back end) and I&#39;d have to trace it down. By the end my code was ridiculously defensive.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;On the positive side, this was a real learning experience in defensive coding!</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Volmarias 2006-10-30 14:57
    [quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]<p>The cycle continued almost every month for the next three years: The Boss would head out to a client site, sell a module that didn&#39;t exist, develop it in the hotel room at night, install it the next day, and let the customer work with the developers to get it working. And actually, it&#39;s probably still continuing to this very day, but J.F. was finally able to make a break after three long years.</p>[/quote]

    No, wait, hold on here a second. Who was actually running the company? Was there any sort of management setup? Was The Boss actually the Owner? Because if I was this guy, and there was a level above The Boss, I&#39;d be screaming and flapping red flags like crazy.
  • Ross Presser 2006-10-30 14:59
    <p>This seems to have been a &quot;lead developer&quot; where &quot;lead&quot; rhymes with dead.&nbsp; As in, &quot;that code went over like a lead balloon; it must have been written by the lead developer.&quot;</p><p><em>&nbsp;CATCHPA: zork</em><br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Michael 2006-10-30 15:02

    <blockquote>On topic: Once learned about a new application I was supposed to
    develop from scratch after the company owner started promoting it on
    the company web site. </blockquote>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>This wouldn&#39;t happen to be a Market Research firm in Florida, would it?&nbsp;</p>
  • shep 2006-10-30 15:07
    <p>Jesus Christ, this is my job.&nbsp; Seriously.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • v6h10p6 2006-10-30 15:08
    <p>Are you talking about the company from SW FL area? If not I used to work for an Identical Twin of the company.</p>
  • CodeRage 2006-10-30 15:14
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;CodeRage&quot;]Please please please tell me what city this was in!<br />[/quote]

    As the submitter of this I won&#39;t say what city but it was in New Zealand if that Helps.<br />[/quote]</p><p>Well, let it be known that these kinds of bosses (with the bathroom, shower, etc, in the corner office of a corporate building) also exist in the USA.&nbsp; And they also do those crazy things at client sites, and have many roles and titles depending on their mood and/or whim.<br /></p>
  • Sean 2006-10-30 15:16
    I used to think people like The Boss were fairy tales.&nbsp; Then when I met someone like The Boss, I thought he had to be one-of-a-kind.&nbsp; After reading today&#39;s WTF, I think people like The Boss are an epidemic.<br />
  • Jman 2006-10-30 15:16
    <p>&gt; I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the
    first time I&#39;ve read this site in <br />&gt; about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny
    site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I rarely visit anymore.&nbsp; Not enough actual code WTFs.&nbsp; Too many long stories...&nbsp;</p>
  • NZ'er 2006-10-30 15:20
    [quote user=&quot;Volmarias&quot;][quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]<p>The cycle continued almost every month for the next three years: The Boss would head out to a client site, sell a module that didn&#39;t exist, develop it in the hotel room at night, install it the next day, and let the customer work with the developers to get it working. And actually, it&#39;s probably still continuing to this very day, but J.F. was finally able to make a break after three long years.</p><p>[/quote]

    No, wait, hold on here a second. Who was actually running the company? Was there any sort of management setup? Was The Boss actually the Owner? Because if I was this guy, and there was a level above The Boss, I&#39;d be screaming and flapping red flags like crazy.[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Boss, Owner, salesman, ect ect ect.&nbsp; There was no where to go, but home to stress over what new mess you would find the next day when you started the cycle all over again!!!&nbsp;</p>
  • JD 2006-10-30 15:34
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Boss, Owner, salesman, ect ect ect.&nbsp; There was no where to go, but home to stress over what new mess you would find the next day when you started the cycle all over again!!!&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>When I find myself in messes like this one, I come to this site in hopes of seeing people in worse messes than I (somehow hoping that the world is worse off, in general, than my little corner of the wordl).&nbsp; I keep hoping to see something actually &quot;worse&quot; than I&#39;ve already been part of, but no.&nbsp; At least I&#39;m not alone :)&nbsp; <br /></p>
  • NZ'er 2006-10-30 15:41
    More WTF&#39;s from the same company,&nbsp; The interview was on a Sunday, and I was asked to start on the Monday, when I arrived the next morning and announced that I was the new programmer, no one there had any clue that I was comming.&nbsp; The boss was on a plane to Australia so couldn&#39;t be contacted.&nbsp; There was no room for an extra person in the programming room so I was set up (eventually after a couple of hours) in the support room away from all other developers, and given some coding to do, no training on the system, and only what help the other VERY busy devs could give me.&nbsp; All on foxpro a language that I had never even heard of before the previous day at the interview!&nbsp; Boy was that a stressfull few weeks till I found my feet and managed to get into the dev room where I could at least ask questions and start to learn my way round.<br />
  • Brad 2006-10-30 16:04
    <p>I think it&#39;s pretty common to have sales not necessarily <em>prototype</em> or even <em>promise</em> functionality, but to simply say, &quot;we can do that&quot; thinking they can get it in the next release w/o adding any time.</p><p>The CEO at a place I worked once said, &quot;layman says it&#39;s just a matter of adding a button.&quot;&nbsp; The code monkeys wondered at length how he envisioned software development.&nbsp; Did he think that adding the appropriate text to the button would make it do the appropriate task?&nbsp; Did he think there is an infinite number of &quot;buttons&quot; available on the 3rd party market for any imaginable task?&nbsp; We never found out, but it&#39;s fun to imagine...&nbsp;</p>
  • HitScan 2006-10-30 16:04
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>&gt; I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the
    first time I&#39;ve read this site in <br />&gt; about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny
    site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I rarely visit anymore.&nbsp; Not enough actual code WTFs.&nbsp; Too many long stories...&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I know, it&#39;s awful! It&#39;s like there&#39;s all these words, and somehow they come together in big long lines like sentences and they tell stories... It&#39;s like still being in school! Ew!<br /></p><p>&nbsp;OR,</p><p>Do you honestly think that a couple lines of shitty FoxPro coding would really get the point across like this story? The thought of having to work for this loser schmuck for years+ should damn near make you brick in your pants. Is &quot;lblwhatever.text = strAlreadyAString.toString().toString()&quot; really that much better?</p><p>That said, a hybrid style would be fine. A little code may (may, mind you) add to the story, and if nothing else, remind some of us what FoxPro looks like. More likely though, we&#39;ll just see some more anon&#39;d VB.Net or C#, and there&#39;s really only so much WTFery to mine there. <br /></p>
  • triso 2006-10-30 16:09
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>JF should be glad it was only the boss.&nbsp; I once worked at a place that had a <em>whole sales staff</em> that would routinely sell program modules&nbsp;we didnt have in that manner.&nbsp; They&#39;d go out to the customer, write up the contract complete with &#39;cost estimate&#39;, and then come back and act like heroes.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, they&#39;d flip out in disbelief when we&#39;d tell them the new functionality would take 6 months, not&nbsp;3-4 days, and that development cost would be far larger than what they were charging the customer, meaning we&#39;d lose money on the deal.&nbsp; </p>[/quote]<strong>I</strong> suppose the sales-person still got his commission for the deal.<br />
  • Gsquared 2006-10-30 16:30
    <p>I&#39;ve had salespeople promise things to clients that, if implemented, would have completely broken the whole system for every other client we have.&nbsp; I&#39;ve also had to deal with salespeople promising something to the client that, if implemented, would be illegal.&nbsp; It&#39;s all part of my job as DBA, I guess, to tell them &quot;no&quot;.</p><p>On the point of &quot;there should be more code WTFs&quot;, I guess it depends on the purpose of the site.&nbsp; If it&#39;s meant to be a reverse training environment, i.e., &quot;here&#39;s what NOT to do&quot;, then, yeah, code WTFs would be more valuable.&nbsp; If it&#39;s meant to be&nbsp;a source of entertainment and a place to vent about bad IT jobs, bosses, code, customers, etc., then stories are a valid part of it.</p><p>I see the site as a mix.&nbsp; Some entertainment (how could anyone possible be that stupid, ROFLMAO!!11one!!).&nbsp; Some venting (my stupid boss can beat up your stupid boss, or my bad customer isn&#39;t as bad as your bad customer but he sure was bad).&nbsp; Some reverse education (wow!&nbsp; that looks like something I might have come up with since I&#39;m not that familiar with OOP, good thing these guys pointed out not only how it breaks things, but some alternate solutions that would work much better).</p><p>If anyone wants a more &quot;pure&quot; site, just with bad code and counter-samples of good code that would accomplish the job better, there&#39;s really nothing stopping anyone from setting up such a site.&nbsp; Since it&#39;s pretty much just a blog and discussion forum, it wouldn&#39;t even be hard to set up.&nbsp; For that matter, Alex would probably link to it if it&#39;s set up well.&nbsp; (Return the favor and give both a better Google rating.)&nbsp; Would take some work to moderate, pick submissions, etc., but if you want it, I&#39;m sure you can produce it.&nbsp; (Heck, let me know and I&#39;ll send some of my own early code - chock full of 1000% of the USRDA of WTFery in every module.)</p>
  • Alex Papadimoulis 2006-10-30 16:51
    [quote user=&quot;kipthegreat&quot;][quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>New &quot;bad code&quot; posts will be coming very soon in a feature called &quot;Code Snippet of the Day&quot; (Code SOD). Maybe even later this week =-)</p>
  • GoatCheez 2006-10-30 16:56
    [quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;][quote user=&quot;kipthegreat&quot;][quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>New &quot;bad code&quot; posts will be coming very soon in a feature called &quot;Code Snippet of the Day&quot; (Code SOD). Maybe even later this week =-)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><div style="border-top: 1px solid black; border-bottom: 1px solid black; padding: 3px; font-size: 115%"><a href="http://img.thedailywtf.com/articleSponsor.ashx?redir=98701" target="_blank"><img alt="Article Sponsor" border="0" height="20" src="http://img.thedailywtf.com/articleSponsor.ashx?img=98701" width="600" /></a></div><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Will there be a seperate submission form?&nbsp; I&#39;ve got tons of little snippets of code where you look at the one line and just wonder what in the hell the developer was thinking... I like those.... they&#39;re funny ;-P<br /></p>
  • my name is missing 2006-10-30 17:12
    I once had a head&nbsp;Sales guy say to me &quot;My job is lying to customers, and your job is making me look good&quot; with a straight face.<div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder" /></div>
  • Hairy Monkey 2006-10-30 17:12
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>This guy really should be beaten to death with a programming manual... or maybe a managing manual...</p><p>Should be beaten up with the &quot;easiest to get&quot; manual...</p><p>WAF <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Beaten up manually?</p><p>&nbsp;captcha = truthiness, ain&#39;t that the truth</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Satanicpuppy 2006-10-30 18:06

    <p>This sort of thing was actually pretty common immediately post-bomb, because a whole host of idiots who&#39;d gotten in way late in the curve, still had enough money to push on into 2002-2004.</p>

    <p>I worked for one...God, nightmare. I applied for the job, sent in my resume, and got an interview. The guy looks at my resume, and then at me, and says, &quot;So, you know HTML?&quot;</p>

    <p>This is what the programming languages section on my resume looked like:</p>

    <p>Java, C/C++, Perl, Cobol, VB5-VB6, Php, Lisp, Prolog, Basic, Turbo Pascal, XML, SQL, HTML.</p>

    <p>I had years of experience out next to each language, with examples of the work I did in &#39;em, and I threw XML/SQL/HTML on the end because, what the hell, why not? Pad it up a little bit. Who doesn&#39;t know HTML, for example?<br />
    </p>

    <p>I needed the work, at the time, and I got seduced by the fact that the tech guy who interviewed me later knew his stuff. Less than a week after I started working there, I was doing .Net/SQL web apps, and <em>two</em> months after that, when the guy who&#39;d actually hired me tried to get me to do whatever batshiat crazy HTML thing he&#39;d had in mind when he hired me (which was <a href="http://ir.sco.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?releaseid=110973">SCOBiz</a> as it happened, just to add icing to the cake of shame), I had so much other stuff to do I could tell him to stuff it.</p><p>Company failed pretty spectacularly a few months after I was &quot;let go&quot; for telling the bosses son he was a screw up. The day I left I was supposed to install an inventory control system I&#39;d built from scratch...Even programmed the&nbsp; bar code readers. Got a call about a week later asking me where the software was, and I told &#39;em, and they were quiet for a second, then said thanks and hung up. Turns out they were so paranoid about me &quot;sabotaging&quot; their systems that they&#39;d formatted my development server, which pretty much left them completely screwed. Good times. They hit bottom so hard it left a crater, and it took me 18 months after I got fired to get the grin off my face. I couldn&#39;t have wished anything worse on them than what they did to themselves.<br /></p>
  • EnterUserNameHere 2006-10-30 18:11
    [quote user=&quot;v6h10p6&quot;]<p>Are you talking about the company from SW FL area? If not I used to work for an Identical Twin of the company.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;That&#39;s the second reference to a Florida Co. I&#39;ll bet I know who it is...</p><p>About 10 years ago I worked with a guy that wrote the nastiest code. Functions that went on for 10-20 pages with every-other line a &quot;Break&quot; or &quot;Exit&quot;. Made debugging a PITA. Anyway, he would work all week and never really accomplish anything. Then he&#39;d &quot;take it home to work on it over the weekend&quot; and, come Monday, it would work. We all suspected he was having his wife do the actual work on the weekends.</p><p>He eventually left to start his own company in the S. Fla area.</p><p>I declined his offer to go with him.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Darin 2006-10-30 19:22
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>The CEO at a place I worked once said, &quot;layman says it&#39;s just a matter of adding a button.&quot;&nbsp; The code monkeys wondered at length how he envisioned software development.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I think a lot of this attitude was born around the time that Visual Basic came out.&nbsp; Managers (with no experience outside of management) used this and learned (incorrectly) that programming was easy.&nbsp; Apparently all you have to do is drag over a new button, add a label, set some properties, and add a script.&nbsp; Nothing could be simpler.</p><p>(luckily, I&#39;ve rarely worked for a manager who wasn&#39;t also a team lead or active developer, though I have worked near some)</p>
  • Darin 2006-10-30 19:39
    <p>Interestingly enough, our CEO warned us just today to make sure we don&#39;t reveal any details of the next product to our sales force, lest they try to sell something that&#39;s not here yet.</p>
  • phs3 2006-10-30 19:47
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Interestingly enough, our CEO warned us just today to make sure we don&#39;t reveal any details of the next product to our sales force, lest they try to sell something that&#39;s not here yet.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Sort of along those lines, r maybe the inverse: about 12 years ago I was running support for a vendor who&#39;d bought another vendor&#39;s product line.&nbsp; A year or so after the deal, a major customer calls up and says &quot;We want to use some of our consulting hours.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Um...what consulting hours?&quot;</p><p>Turned out a long-gone salesrep had sold them up to 2 man-weeks/year of onsite consulting 5 or 6 years earlier, and nobody knew about it. Needless to say, we weren&#39;t in a position to say &quot;Never heard of it, go away&quot;, since they&#39;d put several hundred $K in without using any, so I got to go on an emergency trip to Atlanta to work on something I&#39;d never seen.&nbsp; Fortunately the developer worked from home, and was a really nice guy, and we had some fun figuring out the problem in their custom scripts and fixing it. And I got to be a hero.</p><p>...phsiii&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • mouseover 2006-10-30 19:59
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<blockquote>On topic: Once learned about a new application I was supposed to
    develop from scratch after the company owner started promoting it on
    the company web site. </blockquote>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>This wouldn&#39;t happen to be a Market Research firm in Florida, would it?&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Nupe. A credit union service provider. He also sold the &#39;product&#39; before we had an alpha.<br /></p>
  • John Hensley 2006-10-30 20:00
    <p>When you think about it, programming is just a lot of typing. How hard can it be?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Braechnov 2006-10-30 20:03
    <div>I have always been one for taking a pragmatic approach to aspects of life and work which, while distasteful, realistically are going to happen.</div><div></div><div>Sales staff who sell modules/functionality/products that don&#39;t exist is just one of these aspects.&nbsp; Coming from a dev background, when I finally made it to the point that I could directly influence the sales staff (dreaded middle management), of course I put in requests to stop selling things that didn&#39;t exist.</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><br />Bluntly, despite repeated attempts and approaches, it just didn&#39;t work.&nbsp; Sales staff pretty much lie for a living and they struggle to distinguish between one lie and another - and therefore can&#39;t stop themselves from lying in a particular way, even if you ask them to.</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><br />My solution in the end was to be pragmatic about the situation.&nbsp; I now have a policy (though not a published one) that sales staff are free to sell whatever nonexistant features/modules/products they like, provided they are also then willing to take on responsibility for explaining to the customer why the feature/module/product isn&#39;t available yet.&nbsp; This couples nicely with refusing to allow &#39;sold&#39; nonexistant items to take priority or pressure the development team in any way.</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>B.</div>
  • John Smallberries 2006-10-30 20:55
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>JF should be glad it was only the boss.&nbsp; I once worked at a place that had a <em>whole sales staff</em> that would routinely sell program modules&nbsp;we didnt have in that manner.&nbsp; They&#39;d go out to the customer, write up the contract complete with &#39;cost estimate&#39;, and then come back and act like heroes.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, they&#39;d flip out in disbelief when we&#39;d tell them the new functionality would take 6 months, not&nbsp;3-4 days, and that development cost would be far larger than what they were charging the customer, meaning we&#39;d lose money on the deal.&nbsp; </p><p>Though, to be fair, at least the sales people werent coding!&nbsp; We were lucky they could manage to remember where the on switch was on their laptop.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;ve worked for a number of startups, and this was SOP. It can be frustrating at times, but it&#39;s taught me to design &amp; write flexible software, utilizing good database design principals and OO to the maximum extent possible.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Brad 2006-10-30 21:30
    Honestly this story sounds like it is coming for a liar jerk guy that I used to know (worked with as a peer) with a few of the details changed.&nbsp; Don&#39;t believe everything that you read.<br />
  • Sarath 2006-10-30 22:19
    <p>I don&#39;t think so.
    The manager should have some technical capabilities else it would hard to understand the issues and other related things. Which will end up in an opinion &quot;my boss is a mad barking dog&quot;</p><p>Once a person posted a question in a technical forum. He urgently needs the solution. even the output is not that much impressing, the effort to make it like that is something enormous. According to that guy <em>&quot;The manager don&#39;t know anything about programming and it&#39;s hard to convince him. He&#39;s like a mad barking dog&quot;</em>. I was just saying a generic aspect of the same<br /></p>
  • xrT 2006-10-30 23:05
    [quote user=&quot;kipthegreat&quot;][quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p>[/quote]<br /><font face="tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Although I still read this site <strike>daily</strike> from time to time, I too, seem to &quot;got used&quot; to the contents here that I am not surprised&nbsp;anymore (even though I&#39;m just new to the <em>real</em> world). Some stories&nbsp;still made me say &quot;Ouch!&quot; or &quot;What the???&quot; to myself but still at&nbsp;a loss for any word to post...<br /><br />At least there&#39;s still&nbsp;some potpourries and smorgasbords from time to time to divert&nbsp;my attention to...<br /><br /><br /><br /></font>
  • Annony Mouse 2006-10-30 23:06
    Result: and mine...<br />
  • xrT 2006-10-30 23:07
    [quote user=&quot;John Hensley&quot;] <p>When you think about it, programming is just a lot of typing. How hard can it be?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>[/quote]<br />With the technology we have today, &quot;typing&quot; is reduced to merely google, copy, paste...<br /><br />So it&#39;s waaay easier than what you may think...<br /><br /><br /><br />
  • Bramster 2006-10-30 23:45
    [quote user=&quot;Satanicpuppy&quot;]<p>This sort of thing was actually pretty common immediately post-bomb, because a whole host of idiots who&#39;d gotten in way late in the curve, still had enough money to push on into 2002-2004.</p>

    <p>I worked for one...God, nightmare. I applied for the job, sent in my resume, and got an interview. The guy looks at my resume, and then at me, and says, &quot;So, you know HTML?&quot;</p>

    <p>This is what the programming languages section on my resume looked like:</p>

    <p>Java, C/C++, Perl, Cobol, VB5-VB6, Php, Lisp, Prolog, Basic, Turbo Pascal, XML, SQL, HTML.</p>

    <p>I had years of experience out next to each language, with examples of the work I did in &#39;em, and I threw XML/SQL/HTML on the end because, what the hell, why not? Pad it up a little bit. Who doesn&#39;t know HTML, for example?<br />
    </p>

    <p>I needed the work, at the time, and I got seduced by the fact that the tech guy who interviewed me later knew his stuff. Less than a week after I started working there, I was doing .Net/SQL web apps, and <em>two</em> months after that, when the guy who&#39;d actually hired me tried to get me to do whatever batshiat crazy HTML thing he&#39;d had in mind when he hired me (which was <a href="http://ir.sco.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?releaseid=110973">SCOBiz</a> as it happened, just to add icing to the cake of shame), I had so much other stuff to do I could tell him to stuff it.</p><p>Company failed pretty spectacularly a few months after I was &quot;let go&quot; for telling the bosses son he was a screw up. The day I left I was supposed to install an inventory control system I&#39;d built from scratch...Even programmed the&nbsp; bar code readers. Got a call about a week later asking me where the software was, and I told &#39;em, and they were quiet for a second, then said thanks and hung up. Turns out they were so paranoid about me &quot;sabotaging&quot; their systems that they&#39;d formatted my development server, which pretty much left them completely screwed. Good times. They hit bottom so hard it left a crater, and it took me 18 months after I got fired to get the grin off my face. I couldn&#39;t have wished anything worse on them than what they did to themselves.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>beautiful.</p><p>I&#39;ll emphasize the part I really like. . .</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Turns out they were so paranoid about me &quot;sabotaging&quot; their systems
    that they&#39;d formatted my development server, which pretty much left
    them completely screwed. Good times. They hit bottom so hard it left a
    crater, and it took me 18 months after I got fired to get the grin off
    my face. I couldn&#39;t have wished anything worse on them than what they
    did to themselves.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It has always struck me that the most incompetent are the truly paranoid.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>captcha = captcha. &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vindication!!!!&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Bramster 2006-10-30 23:54
    [quote user=&quot;xrT&quot;][quote user=&quot;kipthegreat&quot;][quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p><p>[/quote]<br /><font face="tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Although I still read this site <strike>daily</strike> from time to time, I too, seem to &quot;got used&quot; to the contents here that I am not surprised&nbsp;anymore (even though I&#39;m just new to the <em>real</em> world). Some stories&nbsp;still made me say &quot;Ouch!&quot; or &quot;What the???&quot; to myself but still at&nbsp;a loss for any word to post...<br /><br />At least there&#39;s still&nbsp;some potpourries and smorgasbords from time to time to divert&nbsp;my attention to...<br /><br /><br /><br /></font>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So, like most (and me), you&#39;re either fnthedog at work, or don&#39;t have a live after hours. . .</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>captcha = initech. &nbsp; ahh for a taxi chic for those IBM printers.&nbsp;</p>
  • Bramster 2006-10-30 23:56
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;xrT&quot;][quote user=&quot;kipthegreat&quot;][quote user=&quot;GoatCheez&quot;] <p>I&#39;ve been at a loss for words for the last couple of weeks&#39; worth of WTFs... I dunno why though... I mean, this is some pretty messed up stuff going on. I guess after frequenting the site for so long you get accustomed to some of the horror stories. This is a huge WTF and the only thing I can think of is eh, yeah, not surprised... It shouldn&#39;t be like that. I should be on my toes screaming at the monitor in horror. Oh well...</p><p>&nbsp;I wanna see the quality of the modules that the Boss coded in his hotel room. I bet that code is littered with WTFs.<br /></p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m with you, I&#39;ve become desensitized to WTFs.&nbsp; This is actually the first time I&#39;ve read this site in about two or three weeks.&nbsp; Funny site, but nothing entertaining me anymore.<br /></p><p>[/quote]<br /><font face="tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Although I still read this site <strike>daily</strike> from time to time, I too, seem to &quot;got used&quot; to the contents here that I am not surprised&nbsp;anymore (even though I&#39;m just new to the <em>real</em> world). Some stories&nbsp;still made me say &quot;Ouch!&quot; or &quot;What the???&quot; to myself but still at&nbsp;a loss for any word to post...<br /><br />At least there&#39;s still&nbsp;some potpourries and smorgasbords from time to time to divert&nbsp;my attention to...<br /><br /><br /><br /></font>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So, like most (and me), you&#39;re either fnthedog at work, or don&#39;t have a live after hours. . .</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>captcha = initech. &nbsp; ahh for a taxi chic for those IBM printers.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>live . . .&nbsp; meant life</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>chic . . .&nbsp; meant chit. &nbsp; &nbsp; although. . . .&nbsp;</p>
  • csrster 2006-10-31 03:12
    Is there a separate website where managers write wtf&#39;s about the terrible developers they&#39;ve known? Or do they end up here as well?<br />
  • impslayer 2006-10-31 03:15
    [quote user=&quot;GrandmasterB&quot;]<p>JF should be glad it was only the boss.&nbsp; I once worked at a place that had a <em>whole sales staff</em>
    that would routinely sell program modules&nbsp;we didnt have in that
    manner.&nbsp; They&#39;d go out to the customer, write up the contract
    complete with &#39;cost estimate&#39;, and then come back and act like
    heroes.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course, they&#39;d flip out in disbelief when we&#39;d
    tell them the new functionality would take 6 months, not&nbsp;3-4 days,
    and that development cost would be far larger than what they were
    charging the customer, meaning we&#39;d lose money on the deal.&nbsp; </p><p>Though,
    to be fair, at least the sales people werent coding!&nbsp; We were
    lucky they could manage to remember where the on switch was on their
    laptop.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>Sales people selling stuff that doesn&#39;t exist yet is obviously not
    good, but very frequently the reality. The WTF in this WTF is that the
    boss actually went out and coded and delivered something. Granted, if
    the whole sales department went out to different customers and coded
    and delivered stuff, THAT would indeed be a WTF of gargantuan
    proportions.</p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
    <p>(Didn&#39;t read all posts, so I may be the 20th person to write this, bad, bad me.) <br />
    </p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
  • BruteForce 2006-10-31 03:29
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Is there a separate website where managers write wtf&#39;s about the terrible developers they&#39;ve known? Or do they end up here as well?<br />[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Dont worry, the horrible devs end up here too. </p>
  • ??? 2006-10-31 03:49
    <p>This is like what happens to some programmers I know. Picture this:</p><p>&nbsp;<br />-
    Client that doesn&#39;t know exactly what he wants (OK, I understand,
    sometimes it is difficult to make a picture of what you EXACTLY need)&nbsp;</p><p>- Boss that only think about money, doesn&#39;t know much about programming and wants everything done &quot;for yesterday&quot;.</p><p>-
    Programmers that have to follow the instructions of the boss, or they
    are fired! Since they can&#39;t do a good job so quick, they have to &quot;throw
    the bomb&quot; (the badly-done program) into the client&#39;s hands. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I have experienced my fair share of this approach of sales/management and development.</p><p>Unfortually my background was sales then management, and then I decided to go into the techie side, as I was more interested in this side of things, at each level I spent time researching the various levels, so I could function to a high standard, before I undertook the new task.<br /></p><p>My previous experience put me in good stead to understand, what is correct and not correct, and I have seen first hand in various jobs, that the guys in the sales and management side of the business have no concept of reality, this is regardless of the size of the business, but usually it is smaller companies grasping for the extra dime, who suffer more from this approach.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />Unique sales pitch, it is up running doing this and that, for this company, SOLD == Developer you have finished the program to do this haven&#39;t you, first I heard of it, [SALES] no problem it should be installed and working in seven days {WTF}.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My favourite is&nbsp; the lead developer, who creates a nice GUI, delivers it to the customer, it does nothing with customer data, and is sold as a final, project gets handed to another developer (me), get this to work, and you should have it working before the customer rings up asking for support {mega WTF}, you have the weekend {Thanks}, don&#39;t forget we expect you to be here at 08:00 sharp to support this new project.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><br />
  • SomeDude 2006-10-31 04:54
    This sounds an awful lot like the place where I used to work. Except for the fact that The Boss interfered with system administration rather than development. Our &#39;real&#39; system administrator quit his job because of this and found another job as a developer. After which me (a developer) was assigned with the system adminstrative tasks. <br />
  • Litespeed 2006-10-31 06:06
    Please tell me it wasn&#39;t Wellington.
  • Squiggle 2006-10-31 06:32
    <p>Ahh, first jobs. I graduated just over a year ago now (software engineering degree from a relatively good university), and immediately started applying for jobs. Lo and behold, I got an interview really quite soon afterwards. Having no actual professional programming experience, I thought it&#39;d be a lot harder - I&#39;d heard horror stories from my friends, and many of those that graduated the year before were still unemployed or sat behind helpdesks.</p><p>Reading this post makes me think back to my first job. It was a software development role at an ISP/telco. I was a bit shocked to find out that it wasn&#39;t as big as I&#39;d assumed ISPs ought to be. They had a systems administrator, a part-time sales guy and the CEO. The CEO was also the CEO of a number of other companies, none of which were based in Britain.</p><p>You can probably guess at this point how much of a WTF this place really was.</p><p>Fast forward two months: The sysadmin was marched out of the &#39;office&#39; (boss&#39; house) for being in league with a rival company, legal action ensued, I was left to manage EVERYTHING. Servers, customers, finances... Bwahaha.</p><p>I handed in my notice 2 weeks later and promptly spent 5 months looking for a REAL job.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • wTheF 2006-10-31 06:43
    [quote user=&quot;djork&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>This is like what happens to some programmers I know. Picture this:</p><p>&nbsp;<br />- Client that doesn&#39;t know exactly what he wants (OK, I understand, sometimes it is difficult to make a picture of what you EXACTLY need)&nbsp;</p><p>- Boss that only think about money, doesn&#39;t know much about programming and wants everything done &quot;for yesterday&quot;.</p><p>- Programmers that have to follow the instructions of the boss, or they are fired! Since they can&#39;t do a good job so quick, they have to &quot;throw the bomb&quot; (the badly-done program) into the client&#39;s hands. <br />&nbsp;</p><p>Result? Bad software (large bugs, no QA, ugly hacks, etc...).<br /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]

    Result: my job![/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;Mine too!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • anonymous 2006-10-31 06:49
    <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p><p>Also the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;</p><p>Not a WTF.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • ??? 2006-10-31 07:37
    <strong>Anonymous wrote the following post at 10-31-2006 6:49 AM:</strong>

    <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p><p>Also the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;</p><p>Not a WTF. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The WTF is the deadline to deliver and support, not the actual task.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I have yet to come across a project, I cannot achieve the goals stated for the said project, but there is always a first time ;)&nbsp;</p>
  • Alchymist 2006-10-31 07:42
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p><p>Also the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;</p><p>Not a WTF.&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>Most definitely a WTF.&nbsp; I can code XYZ but what about the ABC... that I&#39;m supposed to be working on?</p><p>&nbsp;I work for a company where customers learn of new features, some of which don&#39;t exist &amp; some of which may only exist in the latest version of the product.&nbsp; Result - we drop everything to get a &#39;service pack&#39; out on an old version.&nbsp; This puts back development of the latest version.</p><p>Result of the result - customers that were going to upgrade to the version we were developing now upgrade to the latest released version, which may not have the features they were expecting ... so we have to issue yet another service pack with half the functionality that was meant&nbsp;to go into the new release.</p><p>Ultimate result.&nbsp; We spend more time retrofitting features to old versions than we do introducing new functionality.</p>
  • huh 2006-10-31 08:46
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;] <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p><p>Also the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;</p><p>Not a WTF.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You vastly underestimate the power of salesmen </p>
  • PLasmab 2006-10-31 09:03
    <p>Yup. The only way to get anything done.<br />&nbsp;
    <br /></p><p>Actually i&#39;ve found selling stuff that doesnt exist it&#39;s not just restricted to IT. This happens in Electronics/Lighting too.... makes for a good business model... and stressed coders.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Calophi 2006-10-31 09:26
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>You can find the foxpro article on Google cache. For now anyway.<br /></p><p>http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:C76UzgEr8EwJ:thedailywtf.com/+the+daily+wtf&amp;hl=sv&amp;gl=se&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;client=firefox-a <br />[/quote]</p><p>It isn&#39;t there anymore, but you can still find it as a syndication feed on LiveJournal:</p><p>http://syndicated.livejournal.com/daily_wtf/171363.html<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • M 2006-10-31 10:58
    Hey, did the RSS feed screw up?&nbsp; 21 of the old WTFs including thist one now appear as &quot;new&quot; and duplicated when they aren&#39;t.
  • IQpierce 2006-10-31 11:09
    <p>Okay, my RSS reader is now flooded with.... many many entries from The Daily WTF. All marked as unread.</p><p>&nbsp;RSS WTF FTW!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • PS 2006-10-31 11:20
    <p>I notice the company was still in business 3 years later so the &quot;Boss&quot; must have doing something right.</p>
  • Dazed 2006-10-31 11:35
    Anonymous:
    <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p>


    Maybe true if the client organisation is just as big a WTF as the selling company.

    <p>OTOH most of the customers I know don't pay for something until they receive it in working order. To get them to put up money up front you have to first demonstrate a degree of trustworthiness far beyond the subjects of this discussion.

    <p>So you have the choice between no money and a customer who might give you some, or no money and an angry client who certainly won't be giving you any.

    <p>However the fact that this business model doesn't die out does seem to suggest that there are enough WTF-clients to keep the WTF-suppliers (temporarily) in business.
  • Saladin 2006-10-31 13:23
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]Also the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;[/quote]</p><p>You can make a products &amp; orders database system for a multinational corporation that communicates wirelessly with all other&nbsp;client sites in the world using satellites that suffers from zero latency, will run on a 386, and can be backed up onto a 3 1/2&quot; floppy each night?</p><p>Nice. </p>
  • Tei 2006-10-31 13:24
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;][quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p>[/quote]

    Maybe true if the client organisation is just as big a WTF as the selling company.

    <p>OTOH most of the customers I know don&#39;t pay for something until they receive it in working order. To get them to put up money up front you have to first demonstrate a degree of trustworthiness far beyond the subjects of this discussion.

    </p><p>So you have the choice between no money and a customer who might give you some, or no money and an angry client who certainly won&#39;t be giving you any.

    </p><p>However the fact that this business model doesn&#39;t die out does seem to suggest that there are enough WTF-clients to keep the WTF-suppliers (temporarily) in business.[/quote]</p><p>I disagree.&nbsp;</p><p>The datetime of the CVS commit is nothing of importance for the client. If the commit date is later than the selling date nothing will break. And a sell is a sell. And not sell mean bankrupt. </p><p>Of course, I will hate If everyone follow that idea and start selling non-existing features!, so, please, dont do.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • NZ'er 2006-10-31 14:39
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<p>I notice the company was still in business 3 years later so the &quot;Boss&quot; must have doing something right.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The product had all the wizzy front end, and looked a hell of a lot better than the only other real competetor, and was really really hard for anyone to convert the data out of, if they ever wanted to get off the product. &nbsp; So it was sold on looking &#39;pretty&#39; and by the time they found it was buggy as hell, and was forever being patched to fix the problems that the boss had introduced by doing new builds from our development source, without notifying anyone, they were either stuck with the product or they had to go to the competitor and abandon or re-enter a lot of their data.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />The company by some miricale is still in buisness!<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Solo 2006-10-31 14:42
    <p>Well, my boss can design databases, with her mighty degrees in English litterature, and masters in comparative history of religion, but she has a lot of experience, in portfolio management. And when I say she designed databases, I mean, she names fields in tables she creates. And when I say tables, I really mean on big fat wide table. <br /></p><p>In light of that, developping a &quot;module&quot; in a hotel room at night is really simple. Trivial I would say. You all whiners.</p><p>&nbsp;captcha: tps</p><p>&nbsp;<br />mmm... what&#39;s happening?<br />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Benjamin Smith 2006-10-31 15:14
    [quote user=&quot;Anonymous&quot;]<strong>Anonymous wrote the following post at 10-31-2006 6:49 AM:</strong>

    <p>Selling unexisting features is not that bad, if work and get clients, and is mostly posible to create that features later.</p><p>Is better to get the money and regret latter, than no-money and instant regret.</p><p>Also
    the nature of &quot;unexisting features&quot; is virtual. If some sales guy can
    think of something XYZ, I can code something XYZ.&nbsp;</p><p>Not a WTF. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The WTF is the deadline to deliver and support, not the actual task.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I
    have yet to come across a project, I cannot achieve the goals stated
    for the said project, but there is always a first time ;)&nbsp;</p><p>[/quote] </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Finally,
    SOMEBODY WITH A CLUE. It&#39;s far better to generate some activity and
    scramble to keep up, then to fail to sell an uninteresting product and
    close your doors. Yeah, sometimes it sucks, and sucks bad. But is it
    actually better to be out looking for a job? Ultimately, somebody has
    to cook up the job and make the sale, whether or not the product
    actually exists. <br />
    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I&#39;m right now working out bugs that I would love to
    have squashed long ago, and were ignored while new development
    (features sold) ensued. But in the meantime, our marketshare has more
    than doubled, the company is MUCH more profitable, and the staff size
    has more than doubled, with NO turnover. <br />
    &nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;Some people just need to buck up, and realize that,
    while having quality technology is VERY important, all the quality in
    the world is meaningless if you don&#39;t SELL IT! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This is NOT A WTF. &nbsp;</p>
  • Benjamin Smith 2006-10-31 15:25
    [quote user=&quot;Alchymist&quot;]<p>Most definitely a WTF.&nbsp; I can code XYZ but what about the ABC... that I&#39;m supposed to be working on?</p><p>&nbsp;I
    work for a company where customers learn of new features, some of which
    don&#39;t exist &amp; some of which may only exist in the latest version of
    the product.&nbsp; Result - we drop everything to get a &#39;service pack&#39;
    out on an old version.&nbsp; This puts back development of the latest
    version.</p><p>Result of the result - customers that were going to
    upgrade to the version we were developing now upgrade to the latest
    released version, which may not have the features they were expecting
    ... so we have to issue yet another service pack with half the
    functionality that was meant&nbsp;to go into the new release.</p><p>Ultimate result.&nbsp; We spend more time retrofitting features to old versions than we do introducing new functionality.</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So
    how come your software doesn&#39;t have patching built into the application
    environment? Patching files, updating database tables, all should be
    part of your release process. You do have automatic builds, program
    self-updates (a la Windows Update or RedHat&nbsp; yum) don&#39;t you? Your
    application tracks the file format along with whatever appropriate
    conversion code, so that newer releases seamlessly read older document
    versions, right? And your database tables are built as needed using a
    unified, consistent format so that you never have new code operating
    against old database schemas, right? <br />
    </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You do have an established release process, don&#39;t you...?&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p> What?!?!? You don&#39;t??? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>There, ladies and gentlemen, is your WTF. <br />
    &nbsp;</p>
  • Thogek 2006-11-01 16:20
    <p>Wow.&nbsp; I suppose I can count myself lucky that I haven&#39;t had to work for anyone <em>that</em> delusionally bad.&nbsp; So far...</p><p>I think that poor J.F. had stumbled his way directly into true I.T. Hell...</p>
  • Stone cold sober 2006-11-01 16:57
    <p>&gt;ou have the weekend {Thanks}, don&#39;t forget we expect you to be here at 08:00 sharp to support this new project.</p><p>Your health will suffer if you go on like that, Don&#39;t ruin your life by doing such crappy jobs.</p>
  • Belinski 2006-11-02 09:54
    [quote user=&quot;John Hensley&quot;]<p>When you think about it, programming is just a lot of typing. How hard can it be?</p><p>[/quote]</p><p>I&#39;ve got a manager who thinks like that. He tends to say things like &quot;just type faster&quot; or &quot;can&#39;t you just cut and paste that from a totally different project?&quot;.</p><p>&nbsp;<br />Other than that he&#39;s okay, though.<br />&nbsp;</p>
  • Belinski 2006-11-02 10:04
    [quote user=&quot;xrT&quot;][quote user=&quot;John Hensley&quot;] <p>When you think about it, programming is just a lot of typing. How hard can it be?</p><p>[/quote]<br />With the technology we have today, &quot;typing&quot; is reduced to merely google, copy, paste...<br /><br />So it&#39;s waaay easier than what you may think...<br /><br />[/quote]</p><p>That reminds me of a talk titled &quot;programming is easier when you think&quot;. Problem was, in my language, mixing up &quot;when&quot; and &quot;than&quot; in this sense is quite a common grammar error, so a helpful secretary had fixed it to &quot;programming is easier <em>than</em> you think&quot;, which was exactly not the point of the talk.<br /></p>
  • Bob Janova 2006-11-02 22:14
    <p>
    You have the weekend {Thanks}, don&#39;t forget we expect you to be here at 08:00 sharp to support this new project
    </p><p>The correct answer to that, imho, is &#39;get bent&#39;.</p><p>My dad told me of a story where the salesmen sold something that was not only vapourware, but actually impossible to achieve. Unfortunately I can&#39;t remember the details, but that apparently caused quite some embarrassment!<br /></p>
  • icelava 2006-11-03 01:25
    <p>[quote user=&quot;Alex Papadimoulis&quot;]The cycle continued almost every month for the next three years: The Boss would head out to a client site, sell a module that didn&#39;t exist, develop it in the hotel room at night, install it the next day, and let the customer work with the developers to get it working. [/quote]</p><p>Where does the &quot;lead developer&quot; manage to find so many fools to buy his non-existent products? You definitely need alot of fools to keep such a business running for three years. I reckon the boss actually deserves an award of sorts for such a feat.&nbsp;</p>
  • Live Chat 2006-11-04 08:43
    I really like this place. If you are looking for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livechatinc.com&quot; title=&quot;Live Chat&quot;&gt;Live Chat&lt;/a&gt; solution for business, you better try LIVECHAT ContactCenter! Keep on good work folks!
  • BACON 2006-11-04 18:16
    [quote user=&quot;Ghost Ware Wizard&quot;]&lt;run fast&gt; J.F. had the right idea, albeit 2 years and 11.75 mos. after his initial employment.<p>&lt;the idiots are everywhere....and they keep following me around..../&gt;[/quote]<br />&nbsp;<br />I&#39;m not sure if your intent was to poke fun at XML or simply to geekify your post, but you failed miserably either way.&nbsp; See, a prerequisite to making fun of something is to have some basic knowledge of whatever it is you&#39;re making fun of.</p><p>But thanks for playing.&nbsp;</p>
  • nonnymiss 2006-11-08 01:33
    <p>Yes. At my previous job, the boss would often stay up into the night making code changes for new and brilliant ideas on the production server.&nbsp; He&#39;d never mention any of these changes to anyone in the business or to any of the clients.&nbsp; Naturally he was confident&nbsp;enough in his experience to&nbsp;not make&nbsp;use of a change log or version control.<br /></p><p>The next morning I&#39;d come in, with the boss nowhere in sight, with several messages on my desk from clients that the application was broken. I&#39;d spend the morning tracking down the mystery changes and fixing or reverting them.&nbsp; Around lunch time, my boss would usually show up (unless he was visiting clients) and then proudly explain to me his latest and greatest feature.</p><p>It was very stressful at times, but now that I&#39;ve escaped, this story helped me to see the humor in the situation.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
  • Nagesh 2012-06-05 12:05
    Did this boss use Ruby on Rails?