Comment On A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

A Most Wonderful Opportunity (from Ben) I made the mistake of giving my real email address to a headhunter I met at a local dev event. So now I get emails like this... [expand full text]
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Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:05 • by Frist Time Poster (unregistered)
FRIST POST!

Thank you everyone.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:10 • by Herwig (unregistered)
Fristrated, because not first..

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:10 • by Raedwald
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:13 • by Bogolese (unregistered)
Hmm. I wonder if they give you a pony for a signing bonus.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:16 • by Mr. S (unregistered)
TRWTF is a .NET developer at Sun!

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:18 • by Steve The Cynic
Ben at least got details from the headhunter, even if they were marketing bullshit. I get messages that say little more than "I have a great opportunity. Send me a CV for details!" Um, no, thanks.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:18 • by Machtyn (unregistered)
In this most finly handkraftid comment, one must consider the exquizite lighting emanated upon the commenter wich meticulously chosen every paragraph, every word, every character's placement and position. Not one i has been left undotted, not one t has been left uncrossed. The j's both dotted and crossed when the font particulerly calls for it.

What of this superb, wonderous, and magnifiscient comment does not inspire even the most crass, and common among us to pick up pen and paper to try and even come close to the majesty of this comment of comments. Can there be any among us who can best it's wording. Nay, I say, it shant be any of us who come as close to shining example of phraseology as this comment.

Come worship at the foot of this comment:

/aliquam: there is an aliquam of crap going on here.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:19 • by Ben Jammin (unregistered)
376631 in reply to 376628
Mr. S:
TRWTF is a .NET developer at Sun!


Were you not aware that Java was developed in .Net?

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:22 • by Ben Jammin (unregistered)
You know Benjamin (no relation) has got to be thinking, "As horrible as it would seem to work for this 'Guru' guy, that really does sound like some delicious water."

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:22 • by Anketam
"The Guru" who has been given numerous awards just for "being outstanding"!

Sounds like something that would be said about the most interesting man. We have had a number of code samples from people claiming to be The Guru, and needless to say I would prefer not to work for one.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:26 • by Leo (unregistered)
Hari's company is the real WTF. I'd say the woman lucked out. Multiple interviews are fine, but if the interviewers are asking redundant questions, they need to be organized better.

The Mt Fuji one is pretty great. I've never been asked any of those Job Interview 2.0 questions, but next time I'm up for interviewing I'll have to remember that.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:26 • by iamleeg (unregistered)
376636 in reply to 376633
I recognised that first email, so I dug through my inbox. Here's the missing bit about the tree:

They are located in one of the most interesting hubs of
London, nearby, health food stores abound and there is a Krishna
Consciousness centre down the road. A Cedar of Lebanon stands tall in
a nearby leafy garden. All of this purity is juxtaposed by a gritty
high street slightly further away, where chain stores abound, and
where one can find all of the generic shops that one would expect to
find in any major city in the UK.


Lunch breaks can be spent sitting by the local canal, taking in the
view, fishing, perhaps engaging in some grafitti on the nearby purpose
built ''creativity wall'' as it is called by the local council.
Alternatively, one may wish to visit one of the nearby studios and do
some Bikram Yoga before getting back to coding, the choice is yours.
One final thing is that this company is not one of those companies
that will work you into an early grave, quite the opposite, the
founders of the company do in fact feel that their employees deserve
to live and will not try to keep you roped in with unnecessary extra
curricular unpaid coding sessions and social events.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:26 • by Paul (unregistered)
This was from a Jerome W:

It was a cold day, Gustav arrived for his first day at work clutching his laptop and some books on the Zend framework. His past nights had been disturbed by the 'Tetris effect', lines of pure code produced by his unconscious mind in his sleep, dropping down, one atop the other, leaving him in somewhat of a half awake, half asleep state throughout the nights. His world view was formed through code, indeed giving him great insight, yet leaving him somewhat distant from those around him.
[snip a few paragraphs]
As he arrived at his desk, he was astounded by the office environment, a wondrous place, void of unnecessary ornementation, fine desks sculpted from burr walnut. A minimalistic, clutter free environment seemed exactly what young Gustav needed to allow his coding to flourish. The air was as clean, a distant memory pervaded his mind, reminding him of the clean childhod air of the Matterhorn foothills in which he was raised. He mused on the brilliance of the architecture holding him, 'a hybrid blend of Le Corbusier and Ahrends Burton Koralek' he decided..... indeed he had many other interests in addition to his coding.......

I am looking for candidates like young Gustav, to fill a technical lead role in a London based agency. I would really like to speak with you about the opportunity as it is a good one. They really want fastidious PHP Zend coders, who have experience in RESTful services, to work on their new platform, and migration to the LAMP stack.

I wonder if it's the same guy...

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:27 • by Rosuav (unregistered)
He got awards just for being outstanding in his field? I have a scarecrow like that.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:28 • by KattMan
As for the last posting I have noticed a somewhat disturbing trend.

Note they say they want you to reply ASAP, before they even establish a relationship with you, in truth they are not concerened with this at all.

I don't have my examples on me, but I can tell that there is a singular company sitting behind all of these because the format is all the same, asking for the same information all showing they are from different companies all over the US but every one of them has a middle eastern name.

This is actually a company doing little more then trying to get themselves inserted into the middle of the hiring process just to get a finders fee. They present themselves as some company based somewhere in the US, any city works, ask for a template of information and next thing you know you are contacted by someone else from a different company for the same job stating you were referred to them by someone.

Now I'm not against someone trying to make a little money, but rarely do the offers even match my skills, nor do they even match my current area of residence.

Where do they come from? If you openly post yourself on Monster they are finding people there, trying to get in first and fast so they get the finders fee and move on.

Can they open doors? Maybe, but I am doubtful. The emails always seem to have an urgency and rudness to them I simply do not respond. This is the current market out there regretfully, but I can get by without that type of service.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:28 • by Anketam
I would hire the guy from Riddled, he totally destroyed that question.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:28 • by thatguy (unregistered)
376641 in reply to 376626
^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:31 • by thatguy (unregistered)
376642 in reply to 376626
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.




^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:34 • by Bryan the K (unregistered)
I would have put a +1 in my notes for the complaining about the multiple people asking the same question.

It's a silly little game that wastes the time of the interviewee. Going to some site for 3 hours of interviews so 3 or 4 different groups of people can ask you about a time you had to deal with a challenge or what you did at your last job.

CAPTCHA: iusto
Iusto go to the mall but then it closed

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:37 • by Merus (unregistered)
I'm delighted by the prospect of recruiters asking Job Interview 2.0 questions and then having no idea what to do next.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:38 • by George (unregistered)
376645 in reply to 376635
Leo:
Hari's company is the real WTF. I'd say the woman lucked out. Multiple interviews are fine, but if the interviewers are asking redundant questions, they need to be organized better.


I agree. The first interviewer could have taken a few notes and shared them with the second interviewer. That way the questions could have been framed like this "My collegue mentioned you did X and I have a specific question about it." then go on. It just shows the interviewee a little respect. It really is a waste of everyone's time to ask the exact same questions.

Leo:
The Mt Fuji one is pretty great. I've never been asked any of those Job Interview 2.0 questions, but next time I'm up for interviewing I'll have to remember that.


Grig is a wiseass who I wouldn't hire either. Can you imagine working with someone who tried to sidetrack their instructions at every opportunity? Just answer the question.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:39 • by Seta (unregistered)
376646 in reply to 376626
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.


This.
And I cannot but understand her frustration. I went to an inteview when I was still a student looking for my first job. These multiple interviews where, in reality, a trap.
For what purpose, I still wonder.
They made me sit in the middle of their open space while (and I'm certain of it) another interviewer was sitting in the shadow.
The ninja appeared pretending to be late - without any sort of apology - exactly when my first interview ended, made me start over asking exactly the same questions in the same order (even the ones directly related to my hobbies and experiences), cutting me off when my answer sounded like the one I said before... Making everyone in the open space laugh.

How am I certain it as a trap ? A friend of mine got exactly the same interview ans scenario a week after I had.

They were sitting in front of a shelf where I remember seeing 2 game boxes : Doom 2 and Total Annihilation... I think it was related.

CAPTCHA : iusto. Me iusto not these interviews.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:41 • by Fant
Kiev has been upgraded to country status now?

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:42 • by Julia
Assuming certain versions of multiverse theory, there is at least one universe where Mt Fuji is already displaced by the requisite distance. Destroy all other universes. Simples!

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:49 • by My Name (unregistered)
True story (summarized dialog):

HH: Hello, would you be interested in working for Google as a software engineer?
ME: Yes, but I happen to know that Google Germany hires software engineers only in Munich. I live in Hamburg and I'm not willing to move.
HH: Google has great working conditions ... blabla
ME: I know that, but I don't want to move to Munich.
HH: You can also work on your own projects one day per week.
ME: I've heard of that, but I doubt they let me work from Hamburg.
HH: Probably not. What are your salary expectations?
ME: I doubt they'd pay me enough so that I would be willing to move to Munich.
HH: You don't know that. Just say a number.
ME: 100k.
HH: That's a lot. Do you expect them to pay that?
ME: No, but I don't want to move to Munich.
HH: So I understand that generally you could imagine to work for Google, and the main reason you don't want is that you would have to move to Munich?

Finally...

We agreed he'd call again when Google is looking for SEs in Hamburg.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:54 • by ceiswyn (unregistered)
376652 in reply to 376645
George:
Grig is a wiseass who I wouldn't hire either. Can you imagine working with someone who tried to sidetrack their instructions at every opportunity? Just answer the question.


I can imagine working with someone who actually ensured he did what the customer wanted rather than just delivering something that required so much custom tweaking to get it from the dev assumptions to the customer needs that the customers dumped us, rendering man-decades of investment pointless.

I'm hiring this dude. If he wants to think about likely roadblock up-front and make sure he understands what his software's going to be used for, that's all fine with me.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:54 • by Russ (unregistered)
Not only Poland but Kiev? Sign me up, and we'll take over not only Oakland but the Sunset.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 09:57 • by PedanticCurmudgeon
376654 in reply to 376643
Bryan the K:
I would have put a +1 in my notes for the complaining about the multiple people asking the same question.

It's a silly little game that wastes the time of the interviewee. Going to some site for 3 hours of interviews so 3 or 4 different groups of people can ask you about a time you had to deal with a challenge or what you did at your last job.
Agreed, but on the other hand, a candidate who gets annoyed about having to answer the same question multiple times is probably not a good fit for a position that may involve talking to users or customers.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:00 • by D-Coder
376656 in reply to 376626
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.
"If you hire me, you won't have to jump from person to person doing interviews any more."

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:05 • by Geoff (unregistered)
376657 in reply to 376635
Right but the time to raise that issue is most likely not at the interview. You might want to you know get the job, and then after you have been there a week or so, bring it. You can say something like, "Having recently been thru it; I have some suggestion for improving our selection, hiring, and on boarding processes." to the appropriate parties.

Griping about the process in the middle of project (even if the project is complete the interview) usually is not all the helpful. Most of the time it would be better to make notes and fix the process for next time.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:07 • by Lockwood
[IMAGE REDACTED]

In Hyperabad, all staff often work indecently

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:09 • by Foobar (unregistered)
376659 in reply to 376645
The Mt Fuji answer was perfect. When a client asks you to do something batshit insane, it's usually because they don't understand their own request. They think they want Thing B, and they think that Thing A is the only way to get Thing B, so they come over and ask you for Thing A.

The absolutely correct action in that situation is to have them sit down and explain the goal, which turns out to be the much more plausible and doable Thing C.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:15 • by Bruce W (unregistered)
I think we need a volunteer to go work for The Guru -- imagine all of the WTFs just waiting to be submitted. Come on, who could pass up a chance to work at "one of the most fine places to work" and drink from the Kool-Aid, er, I mean "purest chilled spring water".

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:17 • by A Gould (unregistered)
376661 in reply to 376626
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.


Unless the point was to test how well they put up with customers, upper management, and idiots. But I repeat myself.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:24 • by pkmnfrk
376662 in reply to 376661
A Gould:
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.


Unless the point was to test how well they put up with customers, upper management, and idiots. But I repeat myself.


On internal projects, those three are often the same group!

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:24 • by The Guru (unregistered)
I feel some cosmic imbalance round here.

You are like little rocks thrown by a kid, sinking to the bottom of a pure water lake instead of learning from the water lily and floating peacefully.

You haven't seen the key point at the offer: not just seeing me code, and learn from just my outstanding, but you'd have a stainless steel spouted water dispenser at your disposal.

Can't you see how the circle is closing as the energy flow?

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:24 • by The poop of DOOM
376664 in reply to 376641
thatguy:
^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

I once had an interview where they asked the same questions over and over... within the same interview! The whole thing pretty much existed of:

Interviewer: Question 1
Me: Response
Interviewer: Question 1
Me: Response
Interviewer: Question 1
Me: Reformulated response (aka response v1.2)
Interviewer: Question 1
Me: Response v1.2
Interviewer: Question 1
Me: Reformulated response (aka response v1.3)

And so on for an hour or so. God knows what was wrong with that woman...

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:25 • by Morry (unregistered)
376665 in reply to 376661
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


Considering 70% of the submissions here are about interviewees avoiding getting hired by some horrible company, this is an interesting take from the other side of the desk. Not saying that Hari's company is horrible. But from her perspective and her first impression, it is screwed up, and she dodged a bullet. Maybe she'll post on TDWTF soon!

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:26 • by The poop of DOOM
376666 in reply to 376644
Merus:
I'm delighted by the prospect of recruiters asking Job Interview 2.0 questions and then having no idea what to do next.

Or to be surprised if they get a response

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:27 • by anon (unregistered)
376667 in reply to 376626
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.


I sure as hell wouldn't. Suggesting a better process may be a good thing, but refusing to participate in the existing process is definitely not. Also, the suggestion sucked, group interviews never work well. Either one person takes control and everyone else is left with unanswered questions (a project manager and a lead dev will have different questions, even if there is some overlap), or the whole interview will drift all over the place and no one will gain any real insight. Yes, we all know interviews are tedious and repetitive, but you can either suck it up and deal with it, or not have a job.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:30 • by Intruder (unregistered)
376668 in reply to 376665
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd marry someone who answered this way at a job interview.

I would really do.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:35 • by PedanticCurmudgeon
376669 in reply to 376662
pkmnfrk:
A Gould:
Raedwald:
I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?


I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.


Unless the point was to test how well they put up with customers, upper management, and idiots. But I repeat myself.


On internal projects, those three are often the same group!
That's the joke! (Can't be bothered to look up the corresponding image.)

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:38 • by Jellineck (unregistered)
For the Mt. Fuji answer I would also want to find out is moving Mt. Fuji a business requirement or an implementation thrust upon you by the users.

It could be that they don't really want Mt. Fuji moved, they'd just like to find cheaper airline tickets for a trip there and thought that moving the mountain was a better solution than going to Expedia.com

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:45 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
And to think "can work quite indecently" was already implied after they asked for 5+ years of VB.net experience.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:48 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
The candidate from "Multiple frustrations" quite clearly dodged a bullet with this one.

It IS pretty stupid to answer the same questions all over again. Multiple interviews can only make sense if the interviewers actually have different interests.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:50 • by airdrik
I don't think I'd really want to work for one of the Flashest companies out there. I'd much prefer one which uses a more open standard, like Silverlight.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:51 • by Chelloveck (unregistered)
376675 in reply to 376642
thatguy:

^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein


Perhaps that's exactly what they're screening for: insanity. Or, at least, a habitual liar who can't even keep her story straight from hour to hour. I've found a few people like that when the interviewers later compared notes. "Really? She said that? She told me the exact opposite when I asked that question."

At my current gig we do the day-long serial interview. But each team of interviewers has a specific role and asks specific questions. There's very little overlap. And there have still been cases where the interviewee volunteered conflicting information to different teams.

Maybe the interviewers in the story should have been more coordinated, but *certainly* the lady being interviewed should have been less of an ass about it.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:54 • by ParkinT
I work for Parallax Software and all my work is indescent.

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:55 • by ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL (unregistered)
376677 in reply to 376636
iamleeg:
They are located in one of the most interesting hubs of London, nearby, health food stores abound and there is a Krishna Consciousness centre down the road. A Cedar of Lebanon stands tall in a nearby leafy garden. All of this purity is juxtaposed by a gritty high street slightly further away, where chain stores abound, and where one can find all of the generic shops that one would expect to find in any major city in the UK.

So how far is this place from Flood Control Dam #3?

Re: A Most Wonderful Opportunity, Multiple Frustrations, and More

2012-03-13 10:59 • by Patriot Pigeon (unregistered)
376678 in reply to 376648
Fant:
Kiev has been upgraded to country status now?


Things can only be rolled out on country-wides bases now?
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