• Kolin (unregistered)

    "One does not simply move a volcano."

    I can imagine Borromir saying this. =)

  • Schnapple (unregistered) in reply to Raedwald
    Raedwald:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.

    Yeah but as I see it, the problem was not that she dared to suggest a process improvement, but that she was being a total dickhead about it, even after the person she was talking to apologized and explained why it happened. You have to expect that the people who are interviewing you and that you are trying to impress enough to hire you are very busy people doing their full time job in addition to taking out time to talk to you.

    No, the woman in the story was acting as if what was happening is she was calling her insurance company, being asked to enter in her SSN via the keypad, only to have the person she gets to talk to afterward ask it again. As does the person that she's transferred to next. And everyone else she gets transferred to. I can see being annoyed there because you're the customer.

    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

  • (cs) in reply to Schnapple

    [quote user="Schnapple"][quote user="Raedwald"][quote]I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?[/quote]

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.[/quote]

    I wouldn't hire her. After hiring her, you might ask her a question again to get clarification. Her response would be: (scoff) I already answered that question yesterday, weren't you taking notes so I wouldn't have to repeat myself ?

  • (cs) in reply to pitchingchris

    [quote user="pitchingchris"][quote user="Schnapple"][quote user="Raedwald"][quote]I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?[/quote]

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.[/quote]

    I wouldn't hire her. After hiring her, you might ask her a question again to get clarification. Her response would be: (scoff) I already answered that question yesterday, weren't you taking notes so I wouldn't have to repeat myself ? [/quote] No, the real problem is that she might say it to the client. That's bad for business.

  • (cs) in reply to Schnapple
    Schnapple:
    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

    If you treat an interview as "you trying to impress them enough to give you a job", then you are doing it wrong. An interview is a 2-way process where both parties are trying to determine if you are a good fit for the job. In general, both parties should reach the same decision one way or the other. This is much easier if you are applying while already in a secure job.

  • qwert? (unregistered)

    Be the frist to accept this "Most Wonderful Opportunity"

  • ET (unregistered) in reply to Raedwald

    Agreed. It is like talking to multiple CSRs and having to repeat your issue over and over. It does get frustrating.

  • neminem (unregistered)

    TRWTF (or, at least, an additional one, beyond all the ones already noted): trees are "the latest UI innovation"? Pretty sure trees have been around about as long as GUIs have...

    I do agree, it'd probably be for the best not working at a company whose hiring starts with several people all asking you the exact same questions. And if I were a hiring manager, which thank frack I'm not, but if I were, I would totally hire the mountain moving guy. Best answer I've heard to a silly question like that, ever. The first question asked in response to an ridiculous request should always be, "what's the use case?"

  • AP² (unregistered) in reply to Schnapple
    Schnapple:
    You have to expect that the people who are interviewing you and that you are trying to impress enough to hire you are very busy people doing their full time job in addition to taking out time to talk to you.
    They're not doing it for her, they're doing it for the company. It's not her fault that they accept overtime.
    No, the woman in the story was acting as if what was happening is she was calling her insurance company, being asked to enter in her SSN via the keypad, only to have the person she gets to talk to afterward ask it again. As does the person that she's transferred to next. And everyone else she gets transferred to. I can see being annoyed there because you're the customer.

    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

    Seriously? "You need us therefore we'll disrespect you and you'll like it"?

    Firstly, the idea that you have to be a paying customer to deserve respect is disgusting. Secondly, nobody is doing her a favor; they're hoping to benefit from her just as she is hoping to benefit from them.

    Personally, I'm usually way too polite (read: coward) to say stuff like this to people. But I don't see anything wrong with how she responded to people who were wasting her time.

  • Ozz (unregistered) in reply to Intruder
    Intruder:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?
    I'd marry someone who answered this way at a job interview.
    I'd marry someone who answered this way on a date.
  • Lazlo (unregistered) in reply to Foobar
    Foobar:
    The Mt Fuji answer was perfect.

    No it wasn't. The correct answer is to modify the latitude/longitude indices until the position of Mt. Fuji is where you want it. For a programming job, any other answer would make me very hesitant.

  • Larry (unregistered)

    I'm pretty sure "can work well indecently" refers to the WTF a couple years ago, where during the interview (in the couple's/employer's home/office) they mentioned that they frequently work in the nude and would that be OK?

    Hey, in my opinion it should be required. But then, I work on a college campus, surrounded by student workers, so...

  • hmmm (unregistered) in reply to Ozz
    Ozz:
    Intruder:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?
    I'd marry someone who answered this way at a job interview.
    I'd marry someone who answered this way on a date.
    You'd both best ask her at the same time. One can only imagine her frustration of having to say No twice.
  • Slartibartfast (unregistered)

    I would LOVE to be asked the Mt. Fuji question because I have the perfect answer:

    I'd simply paint the entire mountain neon pink.

    (+1 Internets to anyone who gets the reference.)

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to hmmm
    hmmm:
    Ozz:
    Intruder:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?
    I'd marry someone who answered this way at a job interview.
    I'd marry someone who answered this way on a date.
    You'd both best ask her at the same time. One can only imagine her frustration of having to say No twice.
    I would neither marry, nor date, someone who is getting everyone in the room, or jumping from person to person. I like reliability and trustworthiness in a relationship.
  • WC (unregistered)

    The people are separated and asking the same questions not because they want to know the answers, but because they want to see how she'll answer.

    If they just wanted the answers to the questions, they could have sent her an email with them.

    As for having them separated, there are reason there, too. 1, you don't waste any time from people later on the list if they don't make it past the first few. 2, you might get slightly different responses each time, which can help make a decision. Certainly, people ask the question differently.

    I'm sure there are others, but those just came to mind quickly.

    She might have actually been a great worker if she could just fix her attitude problem. Wanting to be efficient is great. Being rude about it is not.

  • Erewhon (unregistered)

    "“I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?”

    Where's the WTF? This makes a lot of sense.

  • (cs) in reply to Slartibartfast
    Slartibartfast:
    I would LOVE to be asked the Mt. Fuji question because I have the perfect answer:

    I'd simply paint the entire mountain neon pink.

    (+1 Internets to anyone who gets the reference.)

    Only if you stick up a SEP field as well.

  • (cs)

    Has any one considered the possibility that the guy interviewing for the sysadmin job knew there were layoffs and a hiring freeze coming, and simply decided to just goof off instead of doing a real interview?

  • (cs) in reply to xorsyst
    xorsyst:
    Schnapple:
    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

    If you treat an interview as "you trying to impress them enough to give you a job", then you are doing it wrong. An interview is a 2-way process where both parties are trying to determine if you are a good fit for the job. In general, both parties should reach the same decision one way or the other. This is much easier if you are applying while already in a secure job.

    True enough. But it's still not in your interests to be a shithead.

  • Herr Otto Flick (unregistered)

    I guess this is what is meant by working indecently.

    NSFW! NSFW! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/04/web_coders/ NSFW! NSFW!

  • Christopher (unregistered)

    I've walked out on more than one interview where they expected me to jump through their stupid "it's just how it's done" hoops.

    And the woman had a point! Seriously? Why have multiple interviews separately when you're going to go over the same material? I can't believe how arrogant Hari is in her assumption that someone should just suck-it-up and deal with it because that's what your company wants to do to its prospects.

    Here's a news flash. Working for someone is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. We aren't Oliver Twist begging for "more please" when we interview. You need to want US. If you think we feel privileged that you ran us through your rat-maze, you're wrong. All you've done is told us, "You're Dilbert, we're the PHB and it's not going to get any better."

    My current employer knows how to do it right. My phone screen took 5 minutes verifying that I wasn't a complete social reject and that I knew some things I said on my resume. My first face-to-face interview had me talking with the CTO about what I've done, etc. typical questions. He then had me solve a fairly reasonable task on the computer in my language to see how I approached it. Once I'd done well enough, they set up an interview with HIS boss. We met for 15 minutes talking about NOTHING that my other interview did. He asked from a different perspective. No overlap and it's the best job I've ever had as well.

    If you treat people like cattle, don't be surprised when you get cow manure.

  • (cs) in reply to Raedwald
    Raedwald:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.

    As with the Mt. Fuji guy, if you don't know the goal, you don't know if the process is correct or not. Perhaps they were screening for courtesy or consistency.

  • Axus (unregistered) in reply to Rosuav
    Rosuav:
    He got awards just for being outstanding in his field? I have a scarecrow like that.

    Nominated for Featured Comment

  • StarLite (unregistered)

    [...] The latest UI innovations for navigation (trees) [...] Cus your application NEEDS a tree, or the navigation will definately suck...

  • (cs) in reply to Foobar
    Foobar:
    The Mt Fuji answer was perfect. When a client asks you to do something batshit insane, it's usually because they don't understand their own request. They think they want Thing B, and they think that Thing A is the only way to get Thing B, so they come over and ask you for Thing A.

    The absolutely correct action in that situation is to have them sit down and explain the goal, which turns out to be the much more plausible and doable Thing C.

    99.9% perfect. His suggestion for "moving" it a kilometer clearly fell short of the client's request to move it a mile.

  • Christopher (unregistered) in reply to ShatteredArm
    ShatteredArm:
    Has any one considered the possibility that the guy interviewing for the sysadmin job knew there were layoffs and a hiring freeze coming, and simply decided to just goof off instead of doing a real interview?

    Not likely. Remember, some people interview because it makes them feel superior. And what makes some cube-monkey feel more superior than asking questions that someone can't possibly answer?

  • gomi (unregistered) in reply to Kolin
    Kolin:
    "One does not simply move a volcano."

    I can imagine Borromir saying this. =)

    [image]
  • Tom (unregistered)

    "Works well indecently" = not distracted by pantsless Fridays.

    The Mt. Fuji one..."do you mean move the physical mountain or the spirit of Japan that Mt Fuji represents? Or maybe just the ecology? And where does Mt. Fuji physically begin? Do we take the part of the mountain above Japan's average sea level and move it? Or enough that it's the same altitude at its new location as it is now? What, exactly, IS Mt. Fuji?"

    You ask me a Zen koan, you get one in return.

  • (cs) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    I work for Parallax Software and all my work is indescent.
    R.I.P.
  • Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    hmmm:
    Ozz:
    Intruder:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?
    I'd marry someone who answered this way at a job interview.
    I'd marry someone who answered this way on a date.
    You'd both best ask her at the same time. One can only imagine her frustration of having to say No twice.
    I would neither marry, nor date, someone who is getting everyone in the room, or jumping from person to person. I like reliability and trustworthiness in a relationship.
    And...?

    She's being perfectly reliable consistently banging other dudes and was being perfectly honest when she intimated that she wanted more than one orifice plugged at a time. and your puppycock won't do! I need a BIG DOG! BIG DOG!!!!

    Dream girl, if you ask me!

  • (cs)

    I interpreted "we continued the conversation" as implying that there were several other questions and answers in between, thus the amount of overlap was relatively small. Apart from the other problems already noted with (a) group interviews and (b) her potential general attitude issues, the smaller the ratio of overlap to non-overlap, the less sense her suggestion makes.

  • (cs) in reply to thatguy
    thatguy:
    Raedwald:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.

    ^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein

    ^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein

  • Anon (unregistered)

    1. Use explosives to close off the volcanic vent under the current Mt. Fuji, and more explosives to open another vent from the same source but directed elsewhere. Then wait several hundred million years. Problem solved!

    2. Kidnap all map-making, geographic, and government officials in charge of nomenclature and torture them until they rename some other mountain "Mount Fuji" in every official way. (Or brainwash them to do so after release.)

    3. Infiltrate a terrorist organization and have them carry out a series of rapid strikes with explosives against Japanese nuclear power plants. As the resulting radiation leaks will gradually render the main Japanese islands effectively uninhabitable, convince the Japanese via a massive marketing scheme that they should, as they depart, each take a chunk of Mt. Fuji with them, to be reassembled wherever they end up.

  • SpergingAsshole (unregistered) in reply to xorsyst
    xorsyst:
    Schnapple:
    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

    If you treat an interview as "you trying to impress them enough to give you a job", then you are doing it wrong. An interview is a 2-way process where both parties are trying to determine if you are a good fit for the job. In general, both parties should reach the same decision one way or the other. This is much easier if you are applying while already in a secure job.

    Fair enough, but don't you think that your chances of getting a new job are much higher if you don't act like a 'sperging asshole?

    Conversely, I guess if you're an employer and you don't want a 'sperging asshole it's best if they can't hide it during the interview.

  • Dave (unregistered)

    I know exactly what job that is for (the one with the water and god knows what else) because I turned down an interview for it. Ironically the company in question publish some of the most downmarket dross you can imagine. The kind of soap opera-obsessed trash that is only ever bought by quasi-illiterate women who are either unemployed, or work in the cleaning profession.

    Jerome's got his work cut out selling that one, so I can't fault him for making an effort to stand out.

  • (cs) in reply to SpergingAsshole
    SpergingAsshole:
    Fair enough, but don't you think that your chances of getting a new job are much higher if you don't act like a 'sperging asshole?

    Sorry, no idea what a "'sperging asshole" is. Obviously you don't want to act like any kind of asshole in an interview.

  • (cs) in reply to ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL
    ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL:
    iamleeg:
    They are located in one of the most interesting hubs of London, nearby, health food stores abound and there is a Krishna Consciousness centre down the road. A Cedar of Lebanon stands tall in a nearby leafy garden. All of this purity is juxtaposed by a gritty high street slightly further away, where chain stores abound, and where one can find all of the generic shops that one would expect to find in any major city in the UK.
    So how far is this place from Flood Control Dam #3?
    >s. sw. s. s. s. e. d.
  • ctd (unregistered)

    I had lots of "Mt Fuji" questions interviewing at Microsoft. At least once I knew I was completely missing the answer, told the interviewer as much, and proceeded to go all-out in whatever direction I could think of. Unable to think of "put a cheap light sensor on the powered window blinds so it can close itself in bright sunlight", I went on a tear about "include a GPS unit + digital compass so it knows where it is and which way it's facing, have it look up the local weather radar, and deduce whether cloud patterns & sun angles warrant closing the blinds"; wasn't the simple pat answer she was looking for, but got me close to getting the job.

  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to ctd
    ctd:
    I had lots of "Mt Fuji" questions interviewing at Microsoft. At least once I knew I was completely missing the answer, told the interviewer as much, and proceeded to go all-out in whatever direction I could think of. Unable to think of "put a cheap light sensor on the powered window blinds so it can close itself in bright sunlight", I went on a tear about "include a GPS unit + digital compass so it knows where it is and which way it's facing, have it look up the local weather radar, and deduce whether cloud patterns & sun angles warrant closing the blinds"; wasn't the simple pat answer she was looking for, but got me close to getting the job.
    I would have thought that after suggesting that sort of ridiculously over-engineered solution to MS you would have been a shoe-in for a job...
  • (cs)

    The "Dali Lama"? Did the guy change his title? And "iPhone native language" instead of Objective C/C++? These headhunters surely know their topics.

  • iWantToKeepAnon (unregistered) in reply to A Gould
    A Gould:
    Raedwald:
    I don’t know. Maybe get everyone in a room instead of having me jump from person to person?

    I'd hire someone who asked that question. We programmers are meant to have some understanding of efficient and inefficient processes. And make suggestions for improving things.

    Unless the point was to test how well they put up with customers, upper management, and idiots. But I repeat myself.

    mod parent up, programming takes patience and common sense. The interviewee showed neither. I would never trust this person to mentor anyone. They'd be trapped at junior forever IF they managed to somehow get in. I'd pass too. Hope she didn't need the job.

  • Jazz (unregistered) in reply to George
    George:
    Leo:
    The Mt Fuji one is pretty great. I've never been asked any of those Job Interview 2.0 questions, but next time I'm up for interviewing I'll have to remember that.

    Grig is a wiseass who I wouldn't hire either. Can you imagine working with someone who tried to sidetrack their instructions at every opportunity? Just answer the question.

    Are you kidding? Grig is clearly on track for a management position. Anyone who looks at a simple question and decides that it needs environmental feasibility research studies, economic impact research studies, studies to determine the best engineering method for the desired result, and permission from the government of a sovereign nation has clearly mastered the type of overthink which elevates upper management above the rest of us. He's also mastered the executive-level skills of misdirection, avoiding the question, inflating the statistics, and patronizing the other person in the conversation.

    Shit, I'm surprised they didn't hire him as Lead Project Manager after an answer like that.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to thatguy
    thatguy:
    ^^^I concur, not to mention that it clearly shows a lack of communication between those doing the interviews. Had they all asked separate questions it could be understandable to have multiple tiered interviews, but asking the same thing over and over expecting different results...SERIOUSLY. I feel obligated to quote Mr. Al

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein

    Inanity: Repeating the same quote over and over again and expecting people to be equally impressed with every repetition. -- Me

  • Ol' Bob (unregistered)

    Please - I must bear the guru's children! His wonderfulness is so obvious - I cannot bear to allow another to have him! OK, so, I'm genetically unqualified for the job - but, still, I must! I must! I must!

    Unless, that is, he turns out to be the kind of hosebag he sounds like, in which case, forget it.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to xorsyst
    xorsyst:
    Schnapple:
    But in this situation you're the one who needs a job and it's not in your interests to be a shithead about it

    If you treat an interview as "you trying to impress them enough to give you a job", then you are doing it wrong. An interview is a 2-way process where both parties are trying to determine if you are a good fit for the job. In general, both parties should reach the same decision one way or the other. This is much easier if you are applying while already in a secure job.

    RE "An interview is a 2-way process", etc: Sure. But how do you get from there to, "So it's a good idea to be rude and unco-operative with the company's interview process"? Sure, I don't go on a job interview like a hobo begging for a handout, I'm looking for a two-way, mutually beneficial relationship. But the company must likewise conclude that this will be a mutually beneficial relationship, so I have to make some effort to persuade them that my services are of value. A good start would be to not be a jerk.

  • gilhad (unregistered)

    Mt. Fuji - after the answer, that client just want it moved, I would ask another one "Would be at least one mile from the point, where it is just now, in any direction, enough?" And when I would get answer "ofcourse yes", then I would dramatically stand up in silent, wait a little time, then snapped fingers, bowed and said "So it is done".

    The trick is ofcourse, that the Earth is revolving around it axe, the Sun and with the whole spiral arm we are in, so while we talked, the Mt. Fuji ofcourse moved at least one mile. In some direction.

    Then we can get to the point, where he would like give more specifics. Garbage in, garbage out. I he cannot give good specification, I would prove, that the one given is not good at all. I could also ask for one fixed point and long enough pole, as Archimedes did :)

  • Jay (unregistered)

    On the slightly serious side: What would the interviewer consider a good answer to the Mt Fuji question? If this comes from a book of clever interview questions, I'd like to know what they consider the "right" answer. Unless the applicant is incredibly brilliant or has god-like powers, any solution proposed is likely to be wildy expensive and/or impractical. Is the idea to present a virtually unsolvable problem and then expect a solution?

    It tangentially reminds me of an interview I saw years ago with a candidate running for vice president. The interviewer asked him what he would do if the president died and he had to assume his office. The candidate replied that he would call a meeting of top advisors and officials and prepare a transition plan. The interview then ripped him for giving a vague, general answer. But it was a vague, general question! How much more specific could the poor guy be? Just for starters, if the president died after a long illness, I'd expect the next logical step would be very different than if the president was among the millions killed in a surprise nuclear attack by a hostile foreign nation.

    You can't ask a general question and expect a specific answer. You can't ask a bizarre question and expect a down-to-earth answer.

  • Jockamo (unregistered)

    Since i work from home, i work well indecently all the time.

  • Jay (unregistered)

    Answers that occur to me for the Mt Fuji question:

    1. Mohammed was supposedly able to move a mountain. So I'd build a time machine, go back and get Mohammed, bring him to Japan, and ask him to move the mountain.

    2. I would put out a call for a million volunteers. Each volunteer would be instructed to bring a spoon from home. Then I would direct them to each take a spoonful of dirt from the mountain, carry it to the desired destination, and drop it. Repeat until the mountain is moved.

    3. Wait for another tsunami to hit Japan and move the mountain for me.

    Etc. I'm sure any reasonably creative person could come up with dozens of equally realistic plans.

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