Comment On Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

In mid-2003, David was a naive student in his final year of university. But when he applied to the Belgian government's three new pools of French-language IT candidates (Belgium's other official language being Dutch), he wasn't surprised by the results. After two written tests and an interview for each pool, he was ranked top of the list for the Sysadmin and Programmer pools, and bottom of the list for Project Management. [expand full text]
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Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:02 • by Frank Lee (unregistered)
bottom of the list for Project Management
In other words, he tested as highly intelligent, making him first on all lists where one wants to be first.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:07 • by Bartdude (unregistered)
Belgium hs a 3rd official language : German.
This lack of organization doesn't impress me much... but why would a young and dynamic developer work for the governement in the first place ?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:09 • by RFoxmich (unregistered)
He was evidently frist on the list of a lot of things.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:19 • by no laughing matter
Government wasting money as usual...

Where's the WTF?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:24 • by Ironside (unregistered)
"and David was ranked top man."

This is David, he's our Top Man.

David we need you to travel immediately to Istanbul. The President's daughter has fallen sick and as our Top Man we recognize you are the Best Man For The Job.

Extreme Caution David, the President's daughter is hooked up to an Oracle DB and has been lain low by an SQL injection. We need you to put a logic bomb through her back door.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:26 • by Orval4ever (unregistered)
The real WTF is he applied for a government IT position. The rest of IT in this country (i'm from Belgium) looks so far down on government positions that this is practically career suicide. The quickest way to to let your skills age beyond usefulness, learn poor working habits and general apathy is to work for a (we got several...) Belgian Government.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:30 • by anonymous (unregistered)
As a belgian working at government, this story full of WTF doesn't impress me at all.
And I confirm 10x the WTF of dutchspeaking/frenchspeaking positions, where you cannot hire a perfectly competent candidate if the position is not open for his language

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:31 • by Martin (unregistered)
Government IT position?

If you need to watch movies, youtube and get money for no work, then it's for you.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:42 • by bjolling
401261 in reply to 401253
Bartdude:
Belgium hs a 3rd official language : German.
This lack of organization doesn't impress me much... but why would a young and dynamic developer work for the governement in the first place ?
This and...
the Belgian government's three new pools of French-language IT candidates (Belgium's other official language being Dutch)
The official language in Belgium is Dutch, it is French that is the other official language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:51 • by some pony (unregistered)
looking at the comments, the real wtf this time is...... BELGIUM!

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:52 • by hymie
401263 in reply to 401262
some pony:
B*LGI*M!


Really, now, there's no need for that kind of language.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 07:53 • by Kristof Provsot (unregistered)
401264 in reply to 401262
I don't believe that this was actually about Belgium. There'd be rather more Kafka if it really was Belgium.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:04 • by Louis (unregistered)
An auditor, the president's daughter, and an admiral walk into a bar, where they find David crying into his beer. "I just got featured in a TDWTF article" he wailed. "My career is doomed."

"I know what you mean" said the president's daughter. "They keep killing me off every day, and I don't even know what I did wrong."

Just then the lights came up on a small stage in one corner of the dance floor. Out from behind a curtain stepped Irish Girl.

"It's not the end of the world" she soothed. "They kept after me for years but eventually they forgot about me. Now, my career is really taking off."

"Taking off?" repeated the admiral.

"Yeah. Taking off my clothes. I'm a stripper now. Anyone want to see me naked?"

"We all do" said everyone. "Even me" said the president's daughter. "But none of us have any money after being featured on TDWTF."

Just then the VP of Global Sales walked in with a billion dollars stuffed in his suit pockets...

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:15 • by Sean (unregistered)
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:32 • by jEDI (unregistered)
Wasn't Poirot from Belgium?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:42 • by Berend (unregistered)
401268 in reply to 401267
Poirot was from Fiction. Often confused with Belgium, except it's not.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:45 • by Flash
401269 in reply to 401266
Sean:
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)

Is wikipedia wrong, then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:52 • by Ironside (unregistered)
I am not certain but pretty sure Flemish has nothing to do with the Dutch but rather it is the native language of Papa New Guinea. Don't take my word for it though.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 08:55 • by ObiWayneKenobi
<sarcasm>
The real WTF is obviously languages other than American.
</sarcasm>

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:02 • by anonymous (unregistered)
401272 in reply to 401269
Flash:
Sean:
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)

Is wikipedia wrong, then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium

Flemish is a (many) dialect(s) of Dutch. There are many versions of it. The language that is learned at school is Dutch, and it's the one that's supposed to be spoken between them.

and French is not the "Other" language. They are on the same scale. There are quota on the number of French speaking and Dutch speaking in the government, hence the kind of WTF we see here.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:09 • by MrBester (unregistered)
401273 in reply to 401265
... with a brillant solution to everybody's problems. No quack.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:17 • by Bobby Tables (unregistered)
401274 in reply to 401256
Ironside:
the President's daughter has been lain low by an SQL injection.
You bet she was! Little Bobby has grown up.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:20 • by Kalpa (unregistered)
Flash:
Sean:
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)

Is wikipedia wrong, then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium


Flemish is a dialect of Dutch, spoken by pretty much everyone in the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium. There are very few people who commonly speak 'proper' Dutch.

Ironside:
I am not certain but pretty sure Flemish has nothing to do with the Dutch but rather it is the native language of Papa New Guinea. Don't take my word for it though.


The Dutch-speaking region of Belgium is called Flanders. I do not believe this to be a coincidence.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:24 • by Nagesh
So Belgium Government is faster than India Government.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:25 • by Nagesh
401277 in reply to 401255
no laughing matter:
Government wasting money as usual...

Where's the WTF?


Since person was not hired and or paid, no money was wasted. Only time was wasted.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:29 • by gallier2 (unregistered)
401278 in reply to 401275
Yeah, tell that the project manager I had when I worked in Brussels in 2002. He insisted that Limburg was not part of Flandern and that Limburgish was neither Dutch nor Flemish.

He was quite cool though with me as I'm a real Frenchman. The French speaking Belgians though had to suffer a lot with him. He would never speak French with them, thing he did quite often with me.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:35 • by profke (unregistered)
all that one wants to know about belgians, and their gouvernment(s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceg6NQKHd70

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:47 • by operagost
Irish Girl... well, there goes my concentration for the entire morning.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:49 • by Steve The Cynic
401281 in reply to 401271
ObiWayneKenobi:
<sarcasm>
The real WTF is obviously languages other than American.
</sarcasm>

Such arrogance. But at least you admit that your so-called language isn't English.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 09:58 • by golddog (unregistered)
Or even a "shoo-in". Unless you listen to the great Chick McGee.

Also, there's something about the most gratituous use of the word "Belgium" in a screenplay, but I don't feel like looking up the reference right now.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:00 • by Severity One
401283 in reply to 401266
Sean:
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)
Flemish is not a language. The Flemish people have Dutch (Nederlands) as their official language. The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.

And just like there are many different dialects within both Britain and the USA, so nobody really speaks standard Dutch, whether in Flanders or in the Netherlands.

This, by the way, is a very contentious issue. In any country in the world, you should avoid religion and politics in polite conversation, but in Belgium you can add language to that list.

It's also the reason that Limburgish has official status as a regional language in the Netherlands, but there's no change on earth that it would ever get that in Flanders.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:08 • by n/a (unregistered)
401284 in reply to 401265
Louis:
An auditor, the president's daughter, and an admiral walk into a bar, [...]


Here, good sir, take my like... I mean, FILE_NOT_FOUND.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:28 • by Herr Otto Flick (unregistered)
401285 in reply to 401272
anonymous:
Flash:
Sean:
Belgium's other language is Flemish. It's not actually Dutch (although, coincidentally, it is exactly the same)

Is wikipedia wrong, then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium

Flemish is a (many) dialect(s) of Dutch. There are many versions of it. The language that is learned at school is Dutch, and it's the one that's supposed to be spoken between them.

and French is not the "Other" language. They are on the same scale. There are quota on the number of French speaking and Dutch speaking in the government, hence the kind of WTF we see here.


In fact, there is no such place as 'Belgium', there is just the bit of France the French didn't want, and the bit of Netherlands the French didn't want the Dutch to have. They are two separate countries, occasionally (but not usually) united by a common government.

The main purpose of Belgium is to have somewhere not French and not German where the rest of Europe can deposit hundreds of billions of euros in subsidies. Although, because Brussels was, at the time, largely Flemish speaking, we also have a backup European parliament in France itself, which is officially the seat of the parliament, but they only go there once a month (in their thousands) for a symbolic assembly.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:33 • by Greg (unregistered)
401286 in reply to 401283
Severity One:
The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.

Except for the fact that spelling is identical for Dutch and Flemish while certain words have a very different meaning e.g. "zeuren" (Netherlands: nagging, Belgium: cheating), "poepen" (Netherlands: having a shit, Belgium: having sex).

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:40 • by Bring Back TopCod3r (unregistered)
401287 in reply to 401283
Severity One:
The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.


You mean one is clearly superior to the other?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 10:53 • by shane (unregistered)
401288 in reply to 401260
Martin:
Government IT position?

If you need to watch movies, youtube and get money for no work, then it's for you.


I once did 2 weeks of work for a government department of the state of North Carolina. The assignment lasted 6 months.

I was very, very good at minesweeper when it was over...

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:28 • by Fred (unregistered)
401289 in reply to 401265
Louis:
Just then the VP of Global Sales walked in with a billion dollars stuffed in his suit pockets...
OMG Don't stop there!!! What happened next? Does anyone have pictures they can post?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:29 • by laoreet (unregistered)
401290 in reply to 401286
Greg:
Severity One:
The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.

Except for the fact that spelling is identical for Dutch and Flemish while certain words have a very different meaning e.g. "zeuren" (Netherlands: nagging, Belgium: cheating), "poepen" (Netherlands: having a shit, Belgium: having sex).


To be fair, have you ever had sex with a Belgian woman?

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:31 • by tchize
401291 in reply to 401253
Bartdude:
but why would a young and dynamic developer work for the governement in the first place ?

Because after 6 months of job hunting, at that time, they were the only one to offer me a position that did not include shitty pay, "please work 12 hours a day", and "you ought to be raped once a week".

Orval4ever:
The quickest way to to let your skills age beyond usefulness, learn poor working habits and general apathy is to work for a (we got several...) Belgian Government.

Well, luckly, i am at a place that send it's IT people to trainings, where people are willing to work (true story) and are effectively working (incredible hey!). Sure enough, lots of WTF here, but no more than in private sector for what i know.

The biggest nightmare in administration is hiring procedure. It takes a full 1 year from the moment you open a position to the moment someone seat at the desk. That makes it very difficult to attract talented people before pricate sector hire them :)

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:53 • by DJ Dizzy spudplucker (unregistered)
They could have sent David as Top Man to Instanbul to help the president's daughter, but Poirot had already gone with his assistant Captain Glanstron
captcha: tego tego! tego! tego!

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:55 • by Zylon
401293 in reply to 401281
Steve The Cynic:
ObiWayneKenobi:
<sarcasm>
The real WTF is obviously languages other than American.
</sarcasm>

Such arrogance. But at least you admit that your so-called language isn't English.

What sort of amazing colossal dumbass tries to flame a comment that has LITERAL SARCASM TAGS around it?

Oh yeah, the *you* kind.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 11:56 • by Cogo the Barbarian (unregistered)
401294 in reply to 401261
bjolling:
The official language in Belgium is Dutch, it is French that is the other official language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Belgium

You mean the webpage that reads: "the Belgian Constitution does not explicitly mention which languages enjoy official status" and "only since 1967 the Dutch version of the Constitution has equal status to the original French one"

Granted, Dutch is the most popular (as in spoken by the most people), but you can't parley that into saying "Dutch is the main official language, and French is an additional one." (There have been a number of countries where the only "official" language has been the one of the powerful minority, rather than the powerless majority.)

Kalpa:
The Dutch-speaking region of Belgium is called Flanders. I do not believe this to be a coincidence.

<HomerSimpson> Stupid Flanders ... </HomerSimpson>

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:03 • by tchize
401295 in reply to 401294
Cogo the Barbarian:
There have been a number of countries where the only "official" language has been the one of the powerful minority, rather than the powerless majority.)

<sarcasm>
A pity those days are gone in Belgium :D
</sarcasm>

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:08 • by Marvin the Martian (unregistered)
401296 in reply to 401283
Severity One:
The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.

Not true.

For example, Dutch TV tends to subtitle programmes made by Flemish TV. (Actually, they sometimes subtitle any random person who doesn't come from the Dutch heartland, `the Randstad', whether understandable or not.)

Being Flemish, everybody replied to me in English even after living 5years in Amsterdam, even if only speaking 2-3words at first, and even when persisting in replying in Dutch (well, in simplified Flemish). It's not just a matter of different dialect words, it's also differences in sentence structure -- the Dutch have a mortal fear of sub-clauses.

People always replied in Dutch to my Spanish girlfriend's attempts on (the life of) Dutch, annoyingly.

All in all an incomprehensible situation, as the other way around there has never been any problem in understanding. I blame mass culture -- 17million people being fed a standardized language ('eenheidsworst') and hence being incapable of understanding the 6million who live one hour driving south and speak the same language.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:22 • by no laughing matter
401297 in reply to 401275
Kalpa:

The Dutch-speaking region of Belgium is called Flanders. I do not believe this to be a coincidence.
Meanwhile the Flanderization of the president's daughter is going on and on.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:23 • by cellocgw
401298 in reply to 401259
anonymous:
As a belgian working at government, this story full of WTF doesn't impress me at all.
And I confirm 10x the WTF of dutchspeaking/frenchspeaking positions, where you cannot hire a perfectly competent candidate if the position is not open for his language


And thus, the true location of Mieville's 'The City and the City' was revealed.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:41 • by Matt Westwood
401303 in reply to 401263
hymie:
some pony:
B*LGI*M!


Really, now, there's no need for that kind of language.


Oh come on. It's a lovely place. Driven through it from one side to the other taking a few hours to do so multiple times. Delightful motorways.

Except when you reach that clusterfuck that is Antwerp, of course, then you're completely up the fucking paddle without a creek.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:44 • by Matt Westwood
401304 in reply to 401290
laoreet:
Greg:
Severity One:
The difference between Dutch from the Netherlands and from Flanders is more or less like the difference between British English and American English.

Except for the fact that spelling is identical for Dutch and Flemish while certain words have a very different meaning e.g. "zeuren" (Netherlands: nagging, Belgium: cheating), "poepen" (Netherlands: having a shit, Belgium: having sex).


To be fair, have you ever had sex with a Belgian woman?


I offered to once, but she turned me down. She did fuck a mate of mine, but started slagging him off publicly for being uncircumcised. We then retaliated by discussing FGM in front of her in the pub and made her bounce her Hoegaarden.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:46 • by Matt Westwood
401305 in reply to 401268
Berend:
Poirot was from Fiction. Often confused with Belgium, except it's not.


Adolphe Sax was from Belgium.

Re: Everybody Out of the (Hiring) Pool

2013-02-14 12:56 • by herby
401307 in reply to 401295
Cogo the Barbarian:
There have been a number of countries where the only "official" language has been the one of the powerful minority, rather than the powerless majority.)

<sarcasm>
Like here in the USA where "English" is more or less official, and "Spanish" is used by a powerless majority??
</sarcasm>
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