Comment On Mind Your Q's and Z's

What's with the random image with no caption!!!!
(third time lucky?)

Ed:

What's with the random image with no caption!!!!
(third time lucky?)

Duh! The caption is missing, just like the FAAR image...

I can think of a possible reason for the ban on 'Q' and 'Z' in the password thing... and in the worst-case scenario, it's actually as scary as the error message itself.

It's a device made for telephony. Older land-line phones, before the advent of text messaging, didn't have a 'Q' or a 'Z' on the keys, and different companies chose different digits to represent those letters on systems that required text entry via phone. And some of them chose to put them on the '0' key.

In a best-case scenario, whatever system allows for administration via telephone uses '0' as a shortcut to exit the login process, and that's why you can't use any of those at the beginning of a password.

The worst-case scenario, of course, is that the passwords are being stored in numeric form...

Back in the old days --- before XML --- telephones did not have a "Q" or "Z".

1 : nothing
2 : ABC
3 : DEF
4 : GHI
5 : JKL
6 : MNO
7 : PRS
8 : TUV
9 : WXY
0 : nothing

What's the WTF with the Sun Sales Certification question? So it's a stupid question, ever take the GRE or SAT?

amischiefr:

What's the WTF with the Sun Sales Certification question? So it's a stupid question, ever take the GRE or SAT?

If a question refers to the 'above', it's probably a good idea not to randomly reorder the choices.

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years! Even half the crap on my roof has to be replaced regularly because the sun eats it away. A tent which is made to be outdoors doesn't last.

codeman38:

I can think of a possible reason for the ban on 'Q' and 'Z' in the password thing... and in the worst-case scenario, it's actually as scary as the error message itself.

It's a device made for telephony. Older land-line phones, before the advent of text messaging, didn't have a 'Q' or a 'Z' on the keys, and different companies chose different digits to represent those letters on systems that required text entry via phone. And some of them chose to put them on the '0' key.

In a best-case scenario, whatever system allows for administration via telephone uses '0' as a shortcut to exit the login process, and that's why you can't use any of those at the beginning of a password.

The worst-case scenario, of course, is that the passwords are being stored in numeric form...

Logical analysis sucks all the fun WTFeeness out of the story..haha.

Very good spotting, you are probably correct.

Well the plastic bag might not be quite as biodegradable as TESCO hoped it would be, but at least they saved a buttload of environmentally harmful blue ink by omitting the word "bit" from "Every little helps".

-Harrow.

Every little helps!

Carl:

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years! Even half the crap on my roof has to be replaced regularly because the sun eats it away. A tent which is made to be outdoors doesn't last.

Dude, there's a huge difference between plastic that degrades in quality and plastic breaking down completely.
You'd have to be pretty deluded not to see the benefit of plastic that is biodegradable in a relatively short period.

Phill:

Carl:

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years! Even half the crap on my roof has to be replaced regularly because the sun eats it away. A tent which is made to be outdoors doesn't last.

Dude, there's a huge difference between plastic that degrades in quality and plastic breaking down completely.
You'd have to be pretty deluded not to see the benefit of plastic that is biodegradable in a relatively short period.

I don't see the benefits. Not biodegradable = carbon sequestration. Biodegradable = release carbon into atmosphere as CO2.

As well as providing carbon sequestration, sticking non-biodegradable plastic bags, etc into a landfill is a possible solution to rising sea levels as per Japan, Finland, UAE, etc PLUS, by adding appropriate bacteria, you should have a small oil / gas field within a couple of thousand years.

Isn't it $10.00 for 0 - 1 hour, and then another 10 for up to 9 more hours?

Carl:

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years!

"Deteriorates" is not the same thing as "disappears". In the sea, it physically breaks up into smaller and smaller particles, becoming a hazard for organism of all sizes that try to ingest these particles but cannot metabolize them.

dpm:

Back in the old days --- before XML --- telephones did not have a "Q" or "Z".

1 : nothing
2 : ABC
3 : DEF
4 : GHI
5 : JKL
6 : MNO
7 : PRS
8 : TUV
9 : WXY
0 : nothing

0 was for Operator, which is also a kind of ancient sysadmin (the guy that changes tapes and paper). So that's why you can't combine the sysadmin with Q or Z.

Q and Z are not found in standardized locations on telephone keypads. I'm guessing that has something to do with it, but I'm not sure why it's only a problem at the beginning of the password.

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

Obviously the best solution is not to have any bags end up in landfills - through re-use or otherwise.
If they do end up in landfills I merely stated that there is a definite benefit in using biodegradable bags in some cases.
All my food waste ends up in biodegradable bags and are sent off for composting. Eventually the methane released may be captured.

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

Please tell me you're joking. Y would you say such a thing?

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

123456?

The reason Q and Z aren't allowed is because their scrabble value is 10 points and they only allow 1 digit to store this value.

Generate fewer comments.

kennytm:

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

123456?

Perhaps it required at least one letter. *shrug*

The biodegradable bag is best to use before 10/09

AndrewB:

The reason Q and Z aren't allowed is because their scrabble value is 10 points and they only allow 1 digit to store this value.

Ah... good laugh for a Friday morning. Thx.

The sad thing about biodegradable plastic is that they only degrade under certain conditions (warm and moist) and often contain non-degradable fibers. If they end up in the ocean, they are almost as dangerous as normal plastic bags.

Ok, I get not allowing certain symbols to prevent SQL injection and whatnot, but seriously what is the deal with so many people putting inane restrictions on passwords, like this max 8 character alphanumeric only business? They are forcing you to choose a weak password, of course these are probably the same people who email it back to you in cleartext =(

Phill:

Carl:

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years! Even half the crap on my roof has to be replaced regularly because the sun eats it away. A tent which is made to be outdoors doesn't last.

Dude, there's a huge difference between plastic that degrades in quality and plastic breaking down completely.
You'd have to be pretty deluded not to see the benefit of plastic that is biodegradable in a relatively short period.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch[url]

Information.
If it had feelings it would want to be free. Since it doesn't, it really doesn't care.

Mhmx:

The biodegradable bag is best to use before 10/09

Is that September 10th or October 9th?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch

I thought I hit preview...

DCRoss:

Mhmx:

The biodegradable bag is best to use before 10/09

Is that September 10th or October 9th?

It's October 2009...

TRWTF is the system named "Intella-Pay".

dpm:

Back in the old days --- before XML --- telephones did not have a "Q" or "Z".

1 : nothing
2 : ABC
3 : DEF
4 : GHI
5 : JKL
6 : MNO
7 : PRS
8 : TUV
9 : WXY
0 : nothing

That might make sense, except that the restriction is to not START with Q or Z, not can't contain Q and Z. So a password of AQQQQZZZZ would be perfectly acceptable and still can't be entered on a phone keypad.
I think the no QWERTY or ZWERTY password actually makes more sense. Although it's still inane.

Bob:

Phill:

Carl:

Grrr... degradable plastic... enviro weenies whining about how plastic is for 10,000 years... if you meddlers ever got OUTDOORS into your beloved environment you would see that most anything made of plastic deteriorates in about 3 years! Even half the crap on my roof has to be replaced regularly because the sun eats it away. A tent which is made to be outdoors doesn't last.

Dude, there's a huge difference between plastic that degrades in quality and plastic breaking down completely.
You'd have to be pretty deluded not to see the benefit of plastic that is biodegradable in a relatively short period.

I don't see the benefits. Not biodegradable = carbon sequestration. Biodegradable = release carbon into atmosphere as CO2.

As well as providing carbon sequestration, sticking non-biodegradable plastic bags, etc into a landfill is a possible solution to rising sea levels as per Japan, Finland, UAE, etc PLUS, by adding appropriate bacteria, you should have a small oil / gas field within a couple of thousand years.

Wow! That's wrong on so many levels.

Dvorak:

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

Please tell me you're joking. Z would you say such a thing?

FTFY

Sorry but I'm calling a massive "Photoshopped!" on that tesco bag image.

If you zoom in to that image the "1" has quite clearly been copied from the 1009 number above and enlarged. It's more blurred than the rest of the text and the area to the left where a "2" would have been looks wrong.

Man I must be really bored at work to have noticed that...

anon:

The sad thing about biodegradable plastic is that they only degrade under certain conditions (warm and moist) and often contain non-degradable fibers. If they end up in the ocean, they are almost as dangerous as normal plastic bags.

The sad thing is most people don't even know this technology exists and how much it can do for the environment, but everyone knows who Paris Hilton is.

You'd have to be pretty deluded not to see the benefit of plastic that is biodegradable in a relatively short period.

Well, in the grand scheme of the Universe, 1000 years is relatively short!

*cough*genitus*cough*

Actually, Q and Z is not so unreasonable. The alphanumeric password is probably encoded in the system as digits corresponding to what the password would be if you typed it into a phone.

On this phone system, Q and Z are probably on the zero button.

Huh. Are they storing the passwords in the top example in an integer field using two digits for each character like a phone? That's a somewhat ingenious way to reuse an old field if so:

01 - 1
02 - 2
03 - 3
...
11 - A
12 - B
13 - C
21 - D
...
71 - P
72 - R
73 - S
...
91 - W
92 - X
93 - Y

kennytm:

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

123456?

That's amazing. I've got the same combination on my luggage.

Shuryno:

Well, in the grand scheme of the Universe, 1000 years is relatively short!

I'm pretty sure I read literature from some prominent Americans that assured me that the universe has only existed for 6,000 years so 1,000 years is a pretty long time.

... and of course I meant relative to the 1,000 years it takes normal plastic to biodegrade.

Jay:

Sorry but I'm calling a massive "Photoshopped!" on that tesco bag image.

If you zoom in to that image the "1" has quite clearly been copied from the 1009 number above and enlarged. It's more blurred than the rest of the text and the area to the left where a "2" would have been looks wrong.

Man I must be really bored at work to have noticed that...

As a regular customer of Tesco, I cannot see anything wrong with this bag. The four digit MMYY date format is quite common for manufacturing or expiry date codes in the UK and a shelf life of 9 months is about right for the type of plastic this shop uses. Shortly after that, the bag disintegrates, leaving the contents covered in a coarse white powder that is a pig to clean up. Using these bags to store things in the attic is a BIG mistake. I know from bitter experience.

The advertising line of "every little helps" is frequently shortened by customers omitting the first and last letters - "very little help".

Anon:

dpm:

Back in the old days --- before XML --- telephones did not have a "Q" or "Z".

1 : nothing
2 : ABC
3 : DEF
4 : GHI
5 : JKL
6 : MNO
7 : PRS
8 : TUV
9 : WXY
0 : nothing

That might make sense, except that the restriction is to not START with Q or Z, not can't contain Q and Z.

The prompt may say "enter your password, or press 0 to [foo]".

If the first digit is 0, foo; otherwise, attempt to digest the password.

The password digesting code may very well have this internal lookup table:

1 => 1
2 => 2, a, b, c, A, B, C
3 => 3, d, e, f, D, E, F
4 => 4, g, h, i, G, H, I
5 => 5, j, k, l, J, K, L
6 => 6, m, n, o, M, N, O
7 => 7, p, q, r, s, P, Q, R, S
8 => 8, t, u, v, T, U, V
9 => 9, w, x, y, z, W, X, Y, Z
0 => 0, q, z, Q, Z

Hopefully there's an account lockout policy because a 4-character password of this form can be hacked in a mere 10^4 tries.

Jay:

Sorry but I'm calling a massive "Photoshopped!" on that tesco bag image.

If you zoom in to that image the "1" has quite clearly been copied from the 1009 number above and enlarged. It's more blurred than the rest of the text and the area to the left where a "2" would have been looks wrong.

Man I must be really bored at work to have noticed that...

Not as bored enough to Photoshop pictures of carrier bags. I've never been _that_ bored.

"TRWTF" is that the bag says "Bag best used by 1009". Either the supermarket is using the bag a full millenium after it's use-by date, or someone failed their Y2K upgrades almost a decade ago.

kennytm:

Vollhorst:

Guy, serious? The Q/Z thing is simple.

Depending on your keyboard layout the standard passwords are either:
QWERTZ or if you are creative: ZTREWQ

That is a bullshit requirement to avoid standard passwords.

123456?

1-2-3-4-5-6? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard of in my life! That's the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

In all seriousness (I know, I know - an oddity for here) Nortel CallPilot is used to handle the voice mail and call routing where we work and we're only allowed to use the phone interface.

0 is a reserved command, and the phones lack Q and Z as mentioned.

Its not a bad system, its just not the best system...

CAPTCHA: praesent - a Greek present?

Choose password: QWERTY
Nope
Choose password: ZXCV
Nope
Choose password: ASDF
Success!