Comment On Non-Compliant By Design

First!

Was going to be first, but got locked out of my account. Check my comment in about nine hours.

uh, third?

And this clearly illustrates why, when saddled with strangling procedures, you should use them to cause as much damage as possible, thus forcing the upper up's to notice and change the stupid rules.

Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to fix stuff and just do things right, but rules are rules; smart people use them to effect change!

Hail Process!

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:

I write a ticket for a customer with dry DSL that can't get online. The ticket is rejected because I didn't test for dialtone.

Rejected tickets were never followed up, so the customer would call back angry as hell the next week when no technician shows up/fixes anything (it would take as many as 7 days to get a tech out). More than 3 rejects in a month (which you could not fight--even in the case of stupidity like this) and you would be up for review. More than 6 in two months and you are fired, no questions asked.

As you can imagine, nobody would write tickets anymore. They would just find excuses to get someone off the phone. "Your DSL doesn't work? Have you tried scandisk? No? Well, let me know the results when you call back. Thanks for calling. Bye!"

This also benefited you in two ways: You reduced your average handle time (a metric the company used to decide your value and how good of a shift you would get) and you didn't spend time in customer followup (which you would have to do to write a ticket--too much followup and you would be written up/fired). Oh, and a third bonus way: Since you were going through calls like wildfire, you could go to the washroom (which, BTW, came out of your your entire 2 x 10 minute breaks for an 8 hour period) at will, since you would rarely end up on a long call.

While I worked there, we had company meetings trying to figure out why so many customers were leaving. The helpdesk staff, so abused, really didn't care. The fewer customers, the fewer calls. Sure, they might lay you off. But the pay was so low, temp agencies were hiring at exactly the same pay rate. So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

agreed. if i get given too much power, i ask for it to be taken away from me

The process worked, flawed policy was fixed.

It took them two days to fix this process screw-up? Wow... try working in the public sector. Six months, minimum.

That should teach him a lesson about accepting such a crappy job. Everyone gets what he deserves it seems.

Ninth!

snoofle:

when saddled with strangling procedures, you should use them to cause as much damage as possible

I like the way you think. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "damage", but you can't get in trouble for following a process to the letter. If you can, you shouldn't be working there. So do whatever dumbass retarded things the process tells you to do and fall back on the process as your excuse.

The Process be Praised!

Those poor people on the other side of the country... they couldn't even surf the web or play minesweeper/solitaire while waiting for their passwords to be reset. That's just cruel.

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense.
-- snip --
So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

wow... Now i know why support at most ISPs totally sucks

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:
---eek-----

Sure, they might lay you off. But the pay was so low, temp agencies were hiring at exactly the same pay rate. So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

seriously? I'll never be surprised by bad tech support at my ISP again... bet they do the same thing

Sounds like the democrats in congress and their pork project.

I call BS. There are no help desk admins named Stephen... the vowel to consonant ratio is far too high...

Nice tirade of jealousy for a fairly mundane problem. Could have told the whole story in like two sentences.

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:

I know that you typed that acronym to save yourself 10 seconds of typing time. But as a result, you cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up. Just so we could know what you were talking about.

In short, acronyms are over used.

akatherder:

snoofle:

when saddled with strangling procedures, you should use them to cause as much damage as possible

I like the way you think. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "damage", but you can't get in trouble for following a process to the letter. If you can, you shouldn't be working there. So do whatever dumbass retarded things the process tells you to do and fall back on the process as your excuse.

Depends on your definition of 'damage'.

I love following the convoluted and sloooooooooooooooooow procedures we have in place for production environment changes for a certain manager because he's been a complete asshat about changes so now what would have taken 4 hours takes 4 days.

Is this damage? Nope. It's following the procedures. It isn't my problem if said procedures keep a production system broken for days on end. Although I do kind of snicker for those days.

Reminds me of a line from Atlas Shrugged:

"If you want to defeat any kind of fraud – comply with it literally, adding nothing of your own to disguise its nature." -- Francisco D'Anconia

In short, acronyms are over used.

I think you meant IS, AAOU.

kaetuu89:

Sounds like the democrats in congress and their pork project.

Huh-huh. You is funny.

shepd:

BTDTGTT. -HORROR STORY SNIPPED-

bigtuna:

seriously? I'll never be surprised by bad tech support at my ISP again... bet they do the same thing

Fishbone:

wow... Now i know why support at most ISPs totally sucks

You're both really this surprised? I've always suspected this would happen to the help desk jobs left over in the US after all the outsourcing to other (cheaper) countries: they would be restructured to be as close to said countries' cheapness as possible.
At least now we know we should try to be respectful of the people we get on call when our DSL goes out at 9 at night (emphasis on "try").

I always tell people "The best way to get a stupid policy reversed is to follow it to the letter."

MrsPost:

akatherder:

snoofle:

when saddled with strangling procedures, you should use them to cause as much damage as possible

I like the way you think. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "damage", but you can't get in trouble for following a process to the letter. If you can, you shouldn't be working there. So do whatever dumbass retarded things the process tells you to do and fall back on the process as your excuse.

Depends on your definition of 'damage'.

I love following the convoluted and sloooooooooooooooooow procedures we have in place for production environment changes for a certain manager because he's been a complete asshat about changes so now what would have taken 4 hours takes 4 days.

Is this damage? Nope. It's following the procedures. It isn't my problem if said procedures keep a production system broken for days on end. Although I do kind of snicker for those days.

Quite. My intent was "slow things down as much as possible by following the process to the letter". Business folks don't care about process, only results and the best way to get them to carry your torch is to make them wait for stupid procedures to be performed in stupid ways.

IV:

In short, acronyms are over used.

I think you meant IS, AAOU.

Well played sir.

Matt A:

I know that you typed that acronym to save yourself 10 seconds of typing time. But as a result, you cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up. Just so we could know what you were talking about.

So, having looked it up and written a post about how everyone else had to waste time looking it up, you didn't fancy telling the rest of us so we didn't have to waste time looking it up? :-)

snoofle:

And this clearly illustrates why, when saddled with strangling procedures, you should use them to cause as much damage as possible, thus forcing the upper up's to notice and change the stupid rules.

Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to fix stuff and just do things right, but rules are rules; smart people use them to effect change!

Hail Process!

I used to work with a guy that thought that way. At the time I thought he was jerk. When I matured I became that guy.

Neil:

Nice tirade of jealousy for a fairly mundane problem. Could have told the whole story in like two sentences.

You could tell the plot of my favorite TV show in two sentences, too. I'll just watch the show; but thanks anyway.

ThePants999:

Matt A:

I know that you typed that acronym to save yourself 10 seconds of typing time. But as a result, you cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up. Just so we could know what you were talking about.

So, having looked it up and written a post about how everyone else had to waste time looking it up, you didn't fancy telling the rest of us so we didn't have to waste time looking it up? :-)

lol, good point. Personally I just thought if the OP couldn't be bothered to write out the sentence then I couldn't be bothered to read the sentence they couldn't be bothered to write.

and hence why Indian call centres generally suck - this is exactly what they do

chikinpotpi:

I call BS. There are no help desk admins named Stephen... the vowel to consonant ratio is far too high...

Steve work for ya?

Neil:

Nice tirade of jealousy for a fairly mundane problem. Could have told the whole story in like two sentences.

I actually enjoyed the writing in this story... heh... personal jet pack... nice job Jake!

bigtuna:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:
---eek-----

Sure, they might lay you off. But the pay was so low, temp agencies were hiring at exactly the same pay rate. So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

seriously? I'll never be surprised by bad tech support at my ISP again... bet they do the same thing

Yes, totally serious. I was being paid $10.41/hr (Temp agencies absolute minimum pay is $10/hr, if you had even half a brain and would come to work on time you'd get $12/hr).

I was expected to work shifts that would change every two weeks. You could be on a 5 pm - 1:30 am shift (the 30 minutes were lunch) working SuMThFSa, and then be put on an 7 am - 3:30 pm shift working MTuWThF, meaning on Friday you leave work at 1:30 am, go to sleep at 2 am at home, wake up at ~6 am (with ~4 hours sleep) and work 8 am - 4:30 pm.

And this sort of BS would happen to anyone who didn't fight to keep their AHT (average handle time) under ~8 minutes (below 8 minutes and you were in the top 25% and had a pretty good pick of shifts). If your AHT was above about ~14 minutes you be getting the worst of the worst, since that would place you in the bottom 50%. Oh, if you were on a call that lasted longer than your shift (and this would regularly happen) you would get to stay overtime until it was done. Not that the last bit is a surprise, but imagine being on a horrid 30 minute long call at the end of the shift change... God help you.

This wasn't even for some huge DSL provider, like Bell Canada. It was for a mid-level DSL provider that covered maybe 25% of Ontario with marketing.

The only non-call centre experienced manager there was replaced with one from Arvato (xbox live) (I believe, but could have been a different call centre) support while I was there. The head team lead or whatever he was was from Nordia (Bell ExpressVu) or some other hellhole.

Yes, those who have worked the call centre circuit know what city I'm talking about, and can probably guess who it is. And, sadly, this was NOT the worst call centre job around. They actually could get much worse.

Average turnover, as far as I could guess (I only spent 3 months there), was about 6 months to 1 year, considering nobody, apart from one or two exceptions, had worked there for over 1 year. The company had been about the size it was when I was there for at least a few years previously. We were having such a hard time getting warm bodies in seats, a supervisor (team lead) was hired to support DSL that, even after a month on the phones, didn't know how to figure out the IP address of a WinXP box.

I wish I could post the call review checklist. What they gave the most weight to was a WTF in itself (An incredible amount of points were given to 'Used customers name:' eg "Mike, could you please click 'My Computer'. Thanks Mike." -- there were NO POINTS at all assigned to actually solving the customer's problem [or something like that, I can't remember, I blocked it from my head]).

Absolute worst job I ever had in my life. And I've worked some ridiculous stints: Electrician's helper in an extremely unsafe factory (1/4" oil slick through the entire factory floor for months at a time on a 40 foot high skyjack [I'm afraid of heights]), Plastics factory machine operator (brushing boot polish on freshly "baked" chair bases with no mask, INSTANT vapourization), Telecomms installer (at welding factory owned by Mennonites, meaning the entire factory was on a generator by religious decree).

It was actually so bad my wife and I decided that I was going to quit work, go bankrupt, live on welfare, and see if I could go back to school on the government's dime and get a REAL effin job. Because at least with welfare your homelife is better. This was absolutely serious. I was at home crying in bed for a few weeks over this decision because it is pretty painful to realize your life is a complete failure. At the last minute (and I mean that seriously, I had already drafted a resignation letter) I managed to snag a decent job. I gave 1 week notice, which I'd normally never do, but I couldn't stay there any longer than that. Even that week was too long (my manager there would probably agree, but for different reasons). I left there absolutely bust and needed a week without work to get my life back in order.

Man, sorry for the spiel. It felt *so* good to vent, though!

One minor mistake of the system admins.
One major whine of the helpdesk agent Stephen.
And guess what? We got that palankin thing just a few weeks later!

shepd:

bigtuna:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:
---eek-----

Sure, they might lay you off. But the pay was so low, temp agencies were hiring at exactly the same pay rate. So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

seriously? I'll never be surprised by bad tech support at my ISP again... bet they do the same thing

Yes, totally serious. I was being paid $10.41/hr (Temp agencies absolute minimum pay is $10/hr, if you had even half a brain and would come to work on time you'd get $12/hr).

I was expected to work shifts that would change every two weeks. You could be on a 5 pm - 1:30 am shift (the 30 minutes were lunch) working SuMThFSa, and then be put on an 7 am - 3:30 pm shift working MTuWThF, meaning on Friday you leave work at 1:30 am, go to sleep at 2 am at home, wake up at ~6 am (with ~4 hours sleep) and work 8 am - 4:30 pm.

And this sort of BS would happen to anyone who didn't fight to keep their AHT (average handle time) under ~8 minutes (below 8 minutes and you were in the top 25% and had a pretty good pick of shifts). If your AHT was above about ~14 minutes you be getting the worst of the worst, since that would place you in the bottom 50%. Oh, if you were on a call that lasted longer than your shift (and this would regularly happen) you would get to stay overtime until it was done. Not that the last bit is a surprise, but imagine being on a horrid 30 minute long call at the end of the shift change... God help you.

This wasn't even for some huge DSL provider, like Bell Canada. It was for a mid-level DSL provider that covered maybe 25% of Ontario with marketing.

The only non-call centre experienced manager there was replaced with one from Arvato (xbox live) (I believe, but could have been a different call centre) support while I was there. The head team lead or whatever he was was from Nordia (Bell ExpressVu) or some other hellhole.

Yes, those who have worked the call centre circuit know what city I'm talking about, and can probably guess who it is. And, sadly, this was NOT the worst call centre job around. They actually could get much worse.

Average turnover, as far as I could guess (I only spent 3 months there), was about 6 months to 1 year, considering nobody, apart from one or two exceptions, had worked there for over 1 year. The company had been about the size it was when I was there for at least a few years previously. We were having such a hard time getting warm bodies in seats, a supervisor (team lead) was hired to support DSL that, even after a month on the phones, didn't know how to figure out the IP address of a WinXP box.

I wish I could post the call review checklist. What they gave the most weight to was a WTF in itself (An incredible amount of points were given to 'Used customers name:' eg "Mike, could you please click 'My Computer'. Thanks Mike." -- there were NO POINTS at all assigned to actually solving the customer's problem [or something like that, I can't remember, I blocked it from my head]).

Absolute worst job I ever had in my life. And I've worked some ridiculous stints: Electrician's helper in an extremely unsafe factory (1/4" oil slick through the entire factory floor for months at a time on a 40 foot high skyjack [I'm afraid of heights]), Plastics factory machine operator (brushing boot polish on freshly "baked" chair bases with no mask, INSTANT vapourization), Telecomms installer (at welding factory owned by Mennonites, meaning the entire factory was on a generator by religious decree).

It was actually so bad my wife and I decided that I was going to quit work, go bankrupt, live on welfare, and see if I could go back to school on the government's dime and get a REAL effin job. Because at least with welfare your homelife is better. This was absolutely serious. I was at home crying in bed for a few weeks over this decision because it is pretty painful to realize your life is a complete failure. At the last minute (and I mean that seriously, I had already drafted a resignation letter) I managed to snag a decent job. I gave 1 week notice, which I'd normally never do, but I couldn't stay there any longer than that. Even that week was too long (my manager there would probably agree, but for different reasons). I left there absolutely bust and needed a week without work to get my life back in order.

Man, sorry for the spiel. It felt *so* good to vent, though!

You gonna be alright, homeslice?

bigtuna:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:
---eek-----

Sure, they might lay you off. But the pay was so low, temp agencies were hiring at exactly the same pay rate. So who cares? Besides, if you're laid off, you get pogey, which is nice.

seriously? I'll never be surprised by bad tech support at my ISP again... bet they do the same thing

It's true, but not when I managed an ISP helpdesk in the late 90's/early 2000's. I gave people crap for doing that stuff. Sadly, since I left, I found out it turned into exactly that. But back when I was in that racket the helpdesk was manned by people who actually knew stuff and enjoyed playing with computers in their spare time. Now it's all kids who can't do anything but read a script.

anon:

chikinpotpi:

I call BS. There are no help desk admins named Stephen... the vowel to consonant ratio is far too high...

Steve work for ya?

Eczbn?

After doing support for so long, he'd answered his personal phone the same way a few of times.

They were the few of times; they were the fewest of times.

Actually, I got this way too after a few months of working tech support...

Matt A:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:

I know that you typed that acronym to save yourself 10 seconds of typing time. But as a result, you cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up. Just so we could know what you were talking about.

In short, acronyms are over used.

IOW, TANSTAAFL.

Charles Dickens:

After doing support for so long, he'd answered his personal phone the same way a few of times.

They were the few of times; they were the fewest of times.

Actually, I got this way too after a few months of working tech support...

When I started answering my home phone like this I knew it was time to take a few vacation days.

Then again, I gave in and just had my hair cut to accomodate the headset divot.

Matt A:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

[Y]ou cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up.

Wow, I feel pretty good about myself - I didn't know what it meant, but I figured it out (without looking it up) in under 10 seconds.

shepd:

Yes, totally serious. I was being paid $10.41/hr (Temp agencies absolute minimum pay is $10/hr, if you had even half a brain and would come to work on time you'd get $12/hr).

...snip...

Man, sorry for the spiel. It felt *so* good to vent, though!

Actually, interesting story. My wife has worked in a few call centers (airlines, banking, etc) and has many similar stories.

I'm continuously befuddled at this. Its not rocket science...its basic common sense that improving the way call centers work would have a huge impact across the board on your organization. But yet no company does it. I just can't figure it out.

T-Biscuit:

You gonna be alright, homeslice?

Oh yeah, no problem now. Finally in a sweet-ass job. Only way I'm leaving now is against my choice. :^)

Funny thing, though, someone from that horrid job tried to sway me away from doing what I do now, saying the company would eat up my time and sucked. I'm glad I didn't listen, he was wrong on both counts.

RogerC:

IOW, TANSTAAFL.

Gesundheit.

shepd:

I was being paid $10.41/hr... *snip* ...if you had even half a brain and would come to work on time you'd get $12/hr.

Ow... it had to hurt to admit that.

D C Ross:

RogerC:

IOW, TANSTAAFL.

Gesundheit.

Best. Comment. Today.

RogerC:

Matt A:

shepd:

BTDTGTT.

Although, in this case, it was the next level up rejected perfectly valid tickets because of the slightest bit of troubleshooting being missing, even things that make no sense. Example:

I know that you typed that acronym to save yourself 10 seconds of typing time. But as a result, you cost all the rest of us who don't know what it means, more than 10 seconds of time looking it up. Just so we could know what you were talking about.

In short, acronyms are over used.

IOW, TANSTAAFL.

Interoperability between Broca's area on the part of a meme's proponent, on the one hand, and Wernicke's area on the part of the recipient, on the other, using the metalinguistic short-cut of an acronym is a perfectly cromulent methodology.

There are, however, two problems in this instance:

(1) It's not an acronym. How the hell would you pronounce it?
(2) It's incorrect. It should be "BTDTGT(IG)T." FTFY.
(3) Did it really take you ten-plus seconds to figure it out? How tragic...

Oops.

Code Dependent:

Neil:

Nice tirade of jealousy for a fairly mundane problem. Could have told the whole story in like two sentences.

You could tell the plot of my favorite TV show in two sentences, too. I'll just watch the show; but thanks anyway.

Gilligan and company almost get off the island. Ha one sentence.

pink_fairy:

Interoperability between Broca's area on the part of a meme's proponent, on the one hand, and Wernicke's area on the part of the recipient, on the other, using the metalinguistic short-cut of an acronym is a perfectly cromulent methodology.

There are, however, two problems in this instance:

(1) It's not an acronym. How the hell would you pronounce it?
(2) It's incorrect. It should be "BTDTGT(IG)T." FTFY.
(3) Did it really take you ten-plus seconds to figure it out? How tragic...

Oops.

Ignoring your rampant pseudointellectualism for a moment, I believe the acronym (and it is an acronym -- a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term ; also : an abbreviation (as FBI)) is "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt." I'm not sure where your (IG) comes in. How tragic...

Oops.