Comment On The Automated Curse Generator

It was 1999, and Brian's company's new online marketing venture was finally off the ground and making a profit using an off-the-shelf conglomeration of bits and pieces of various content management, affiliate program, and ad servers. Brian's team had hit all of the goals for the first funding tranche, and the next step was to use those millions of dollars to grow the staff from twelve to fifty, half of whom would be software developers working directly for Brian. [expand full text]
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Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:02 • by Monkios
Koremachiko !

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:03 • by Bill (unregistered)
HA HA HA
duis is tsrif

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:14 • by fw (unregistered)
He shoved the paper at <b>Brian</b>, who took it apprehensively.

"fukushita", "kakashite", "fukumihado", "diefatsu", "tokaduki", and "fukusuka", he read, collapsing inwardly and visibly shaking as he read down the list.

"They dropped our contract!" <b>Brian<b> shrieked, "Half our revenue is gone! You've killed our company!"

<b>Brian</b> protested that dropping the bad-word filter and using Japanese were both Barry's idea...

TRWTF is that poor old Barry can't get a word in edgeways

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:14 • by MiffTheFox
Actually, I think I remember where I saw this one before.

The sidebar.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:17 • by Ann Onymous (unregistered)
Many prior grammatical indiscretions were forgiven after noticing the phrase "pored over" in this WTF rather than the swiftly-becoming-standard "poured over". Throw in a "bated breath" and I'll stop bitching about missing words.

Of course it's classic! Can't you see it's set in 1999?

(third attempt)

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:17 • by Anon (unregistered)
TRWTF is the client that can't handle psuedo-obscene IDs. I suppose their workforce consists entirely of 6 year-old children who must be shielded from such naughty language.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:19 • by Incourced (unregistered)
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.
Not only was the boss a prick, he was one of the ignorant variety.

Captcha: inhibeo

TheDailyWTF.com: tall tails and geek tough talk

2009-10-27 09:21 • by Sid (unregistered)
TRWTF is that in any real system with > 100 IDs, the limitations of what character strings you could generate would mean that each 'id' would be about a paragraph long. IOW, this story was made up.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:22 • by A. Cube (unregistered)
289034 in reply to 289032
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.
Not only was the boss a prick, he was one of the ignorant variety.


Yeah, but the boss was a VP of Marketing--what the heck do you expect?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:26 • by Derek (unregistered)
TRWTF is that Brian typed in all the pages instead of just scanning and OCR.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:30 • by Matthew (unregistered)
289036 in reply to 289032
Incourced:
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.


They're made up words. There is no "correctly".

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:33 • by Steve the Cynic (unregistered)
289037 in reply to 289032
Incourced:
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.
Not only was the boss a prick, he was one of the ignorant variety.

Captcha: inhibeo


The main point here is not that any of the words *is* rude, nor that any of them *sounds* rude when said by a native speaker, but that letting non-speakers of a language loose with its words is a hazard.

Making the IDs more like account numbers might have been a good idea, perhaps dropping the hex encoding and shoving a few hyphens in to break them up.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:40 • by anon (unregistered)
289039 in reply to 289032
Incourced:
inhibeo

How dare you speak like that about my mom?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:43 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
As soon as I read this in the Sidebar I knew it would be front-page material. Some people think it has appeared here before but are you guys sure you didn't just read it when it was posted in the forums? Anyway, thanks to the submitter, it's a beauty!

Re: TheDailyWTF.com: tall tails and geek tough talk

2009-10-27 09:44 • by Rootbeer (unregistered)
289041 in reply to 289033
Sid:
TRWTF is that in any real system with > 100 IDs, the limitations of what character strings you could generate would mean that each 'id' would be about a paragraph long.


How do you figure that?

Even if you were to limit to the five short vowels and seven least irregular Japanese consonants, that's 35 distinct values that can be represented by a single syllable.

Two syllables = 35^2 = 1,225 values
Three syllables = 35^3 = 42,875 values

If we assume a person could remember an ID of eight syllables, that allows for more than 2.2 billion distinct values.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:44 • by Brian..or Am I Barry? (unregistered)
Did anyone else notice how Barry and Brian switched places in the story a few times?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:45 • by Steve H (unregistered)
You can't divine "phonemic combinations" from textual analysis. Least of all in English, that would clearly be ridiculous. Noobs.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:48 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
289044 in reply to 289043
Steve H:
You can't divine "phonemic combinations" from textual analysis. Least of all in English, that would clearly be ridiculous. Noobs.
Phonemic combinations? Want to try that again, or should you maybe stay quiet and let the grown-ups talk?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:50 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
289045 in reply to 289044
Anonymous:
Steve H:
You can't divine "phonemic combinations" from textual analysis. Least of all in English, that would clearly be ridiculous. Noobs.
Phonemic combinations? Want to try that again, or should you maybe stay quiet and let the grown-ups talk?
Oh, you pointed out a typo. Well done you! Now seriously, go away.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 09:53 • by some guy (unregistered)
289046 in reply to 289036
Matthew:
Incourced:
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.


They're made up words. There is no "correctly".


It based on Japanese phonetics. There is exactly one correct way to pronounce each word generated. It's only ambiguous when you try to pronounce it using an English phonetic system.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:00 • by Corey (unregistered)
289047 in reply to 289045
"In a language or dialect, a phoneme is the smallest segmental unit of sound employed to form meaningful contrasts between utterances." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme.

Now... do YOU want to try that again, or should you maybe stay quiet and let the grownups talk?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:08 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
A much better idea would've been to just randomly string together plain English words from a sanitized list. Easier to remember, easier to pronounce, no risk of business-destroying garglepussy. Also, two days to write a Markov chain random text generation program? It shouldn't even take two hours. And while I'm nitpicking, Japanese learning books that use romaji are a blight upon humanity, and even losing his job is not too great a punishment for one who as sinned so.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:11 • by OutlawProgrammer (unregistered)
Is there any particular reason they didn't just simplify their existing IDs? Switch from hex to decimal, throw in a few dashes, and you should wind up with something fairly easy to pronounce:

1027-4002-9530-3064

TEN TWENTY SEVEN!
FOUR-THOUSAND TWO!
NINETY-FIVE THIRTY!
THIRTY SIXTY-FOUR!

OR, a real salesperson would offer to build this customer a brand spanking new system (for a mere million dollars) where they wouldn't need to speak these IDs aloud anymore.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:12 • by Keith (unregistered)
289050 in reply to 289046
some guy:
Matthew:
Incourced:
Not one of his cited words sounds remotely rude if you pronounce them correctly.


They're made up words. There is no "correctly".


It based on Japanese phonetics. There is exactly one correct way to pronounce each word generated. It's only ambiguous when you try to pronounce it using an English phonetic system.


Agreed. While reading the words in japanese (no spaces injected, and the _look_ Japanese), I found nothing offenive. Translating, of course, I found them humorously offensive.

Still I wonder why they are using a Markovian process to transform numbers into words.

TRWTF is, of course, the yelling out of IDs all day.

TRRWTF is developing to the requirement of people that use the "shouting" method of communicating CS data. If only there were some sort of instant computer-to-computer method of communication.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:12 • by Bem (unregistered)
can anyone explain how "tokaduki" is rude ????

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:15 • by lulzfish (unregistered)
289052 in reply to 289051
It's not very rude, but it reminds me of the word "toke", and you can have client's employees thinking about drugs.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:17 • by Anonymous (unregistered)
289053 in reply to 289051
Toke A Dookie. Dookie being a slang term for that which occasionally drops out of your butt.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:21 • by Zapakh (unregistered)
Clbuttic!

Right up there with "Never, ever leave the singer in charge of the mix" has got to be "Never let the marketers make technical decisions".

One time when I was poring over Apache logs, idly wondering what it would be like to generate pseudorandom text from people's IP addresses, just so I'd have something phonetic to call them. Now I know!

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:24 • by Ben (unregistered)
289055 in reply to 289052
that makes sense, although if their first thought is 'toking the duki'
you probably want to get rid of the employee rather than the software.

anyone had a rude captcha yet?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:40 • by ubersoldat
So you americans are so "political correct" that a string like "fukumashita" is an insult?

PS: Ironically, I wrote "political correct" to be political correct and not writing stupid... then I'm stupid... well, at least I'm not 250 million stupid.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:45 • by ih8u (unregistered)
289057 in reply to 289031
Anon:
TRWTF is the client that can't handle psuedo-obscene IDs. I suppose their workforce consists entirely of 6 year-old children who must be shielded from such naughty language.


I suppose none of them are Cubs fans. Fukudome? What? Is that the F-You Dome? Why are they so offensive?

Come to think of it ... couldn't some of these wtf captchas be considered questionable?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 10:52 • by Engival (unregistered)
289058 in reply to 289049
OutlawProgrammer:
Is there any particular reason they didn't just simplify their existing IDs? Switch from hex to decimal, throw in a few dashes, and you should wind up with something fairly easy to pronounce:

1027-4002-9530-3064

TEN TWENTY SEVEN!
FOUR-THOUSAND TWO!
NINETY-FIVE THIRTY!
THIRTY SIXTY-FOUR!

OR, a real salesperson would offer to build this customer a brand spanking new system (for a mere million dollars) where they wouldn't need to speak these IDs aloud anymore.


The solution is even easier than that. Consider:

1. You only need large crazy numbers for the online/scripting portion.
2. Internally, a simple sequential campaign number would be enough.

So combine them.

CAMPAIGN-RANDOM_CRAP

In their accounting, tell them to drop everything after the dash. In their software, use the full string.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:14 • by Futoque (unregistered)
289059 in reply to 289053
There's no need to make fun of other people's comments like that. I'm sure they're doing the best they can.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:14 • by flarp (unregistered)
'di' and 'du' are not very japanesey phonemes.

He shouldn't have agreed to the idea in the first place -- why would you take a simple problem about synthetic keys and introduce natural languages and other extreme complexities?

Re: TheDailyWTF.com: tall tails and geek tough talk

2009-10-27 11:19 • by luis.espinal
289061 in reply to 289033
Sid:
TRWTF is that in any real system with > 100 IDs, the limitations of what character strings you could generate would mean that each 'id' would be about a paragraph long. IOW, this story was made up.


Your math sucks dude.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:21 • by PJ Volk (unregistered)
Software engineering rule #1:
The customer doesn't know what they want.

Classic example of a perceived problem causing more artifical ones. Also goalposts were moved (probably contrived for effect, just to make giggle words in Japanese).

Customer did not have a real problem (too many to do manually, not enough to automate). If they were going to pull out because of it, I would have to think there were other problems.

Definitely solution fixation. Why multiple syllible words? Why couldn't the dictionary be updated to remove the giggle words(Gutenburg is PD, right?)? Where's the sales guy to explain how such words could improve morale? What happens when the client starts putting context on the nonsense words (you could use some pusdiction, or most words + knob)?

Change the solution, and those artificial problems go away.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:24 • by gus (unregistered)
I don't buy it.

The first thing most coders would think of is to drop inappropriate words.

I can't imagine a customer being happy having to pronounce nonsense words.

I can't imagine a customer dropping you because of something so minor and easily fixable.

Sorry, too many improbabilities. Not buying it.



Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:29 • by Joey Stink Eye Smiles (unregistered)
TRWTF is these guys were still making code changes days before the release.

Are you telling me a 9 month project can be regression tested in a day or two?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:32 • by LU (unregistered)
289065 in reply to 289063
gus:
I don't buy it.

The first thing most coders would think of is to drop inappropriate words.

I can't imagine a customer being happy having to pronounce nonsense words.

I can't imagine a customer dropping you because of something so minor and easily fixable.

Sorry, too many improbabilities. Not buying it.


Well, either you are very lucky or you are living under a rock. You wouldn't belive how stupid and over reactive people can be... Yes, there are even people who would drop a contract because of some insignificant stuff...

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:36 • by luis.espinal
289066 in reply to 289060
flarp:
'di' and 'du' are not very japanesey phonemes.

He shouldn't have agreed to the idea in the first place -- why would you take a simple problem about synthetic keys and introduce natural languages and other extreme complexities?


And miss the chance of playing with Markov Chains??? C'mon, how could anyone pass that!!!??!!??!!

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:38 • by Plz Send Me The Code (unregistered)
289067 in reply to 289056
ubersoldat:
So you americans are so "political correct" that a string like "fukumashita" is an insult?

PS: Ironically, I wrote "political correct" to be political correct and not writing stupid... then I'm stupid... well, at least I'm not 250 million stupid.


Oh man, I thought we voted in Pres. Obama so that everyone would like America again.

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:38 • by henry (unregistered)
289068 in reply to 289062
Why not just give the client a link to an IM client? Problem solved without any changes at all

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:42 • by krupa (unregistered)
289069 in reply to 289056
ubersoldat:
PS: Ironically, I wrote "political correct" to be political correct and not writing stupid... then I'm stupid... well, at least I'm not 250 million stupid.


Wait... what?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:44 • by LU (unregistered)
289070 in reply to 289068
henry:
Why not just give the client a link to an IM client? Problem solved without any changes at all

But the client *WANTED* pronounceable IDs! <put a child do-want-have-this-now! face expression here>

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:45 • by 日本語の学生 (unregistered)
289071 in reply to 289027
fw:
"fukushita", "kakashite", "fukumihado", "diefatsu", "tokaduki", and "fukusuka"

ふくした
かかして
ふくみはど
ぢえふぁつ
とかづき
ふくすか

私は分かりません。

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:47 • by Pidgeot
289072 in reply to 289060
flarp:
'di' and 'du' are not very japanesey phonemes.


It is in Nihon-shiki romanization, where ぢ and づ are romanized just like that.

Hepburn is a bit more common, though (at least in my experience), presumably because the romanization matches the pronunciation better. In that case, you'd have romanized those characters as ji and zu. However, that means there's no one-to-one mapping between romaji and characters, since ji and zu are also used for (the more common) じ and ず.

The real question is perhaps how we have both "shi" and "di" in there, since Nihon-shiki doesn't use shi, but si. (You'd once again need Hepburn for shi.) That suggests a mostly ad-hoc scheme intending to match pronunciation fairly closely, while still maintaining a one-to-one mapping (but I believe dzi and dzu are more common romanizations in that case).

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:52 • by Alberto (unregistered)
289073 in reply to 289058
Engival:
OutlawProgrammer:
Is there any particular reason they didn't just simplify their existing IDs? Switch from hex to decimal, throw in a few dashes, and you should wind up with something fairly easy to pronounce:

1027-4002-9530-3064

TEN TWENTY SEVEN!
FOUR-THOUSAND TWO!
NINETY-FIVE THIRTY!
THIRTY SIXTY-FOUR!

OR, a real salesperson would offer to build this customer a brand spanking new system (for a mere million dollars) where they wouldn't need to speak these IDs aloud anymore.


The solution is even easier than that. Consider:

1. You only need large crazy numbers for the online/scripting portion.
2. Internally, a simple sequential campaign number would be enough.

So combine them.

CAMPAIGN-RANDOM_CRAP

In their accounting, tell them to drop everything after the dash. In their software, use the full string.


As usual, the simpliest solution would be aborred by most engineers

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 11:55 • by Alberto (unregistered)
Is it possible to replace the present captcha with this generator?

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 12:00 • by Trondster
Oh bugger - I remember when I first wrote an automated username generator - no forbidden characters like 0O1lI, and only pronouncable syllables..

Luckily, the customer discovered the first "interesting" words during testing, before we went live.

We quickly added a patch, where we generated a bunch of random names in a database table and manually filtered the offensive ones - the server picked the top one, and only generated a new one if there were no screened ones in the database table.. :D

Re: The Automated Curse Generator

2009-10-27 12:00 • by ネット日本語の先生 (unregistered)
289077 in reply to 289071
日本語の学生:
fw:
"fukushita", "kakashite", "fukumihado", "diefatsu", "tokaduki", and "fukusuka"

ふくした
かかして
ふくみはど
ぢえふぁつ
とかづき
ふくすか

私は分かりません。

No, you're doing it all wrong. This is the Internet, you're supposed to say things like "わかんないw".
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