Comment On The Starting Salary and More

The Starting Salary (from Steve) After a massive layoff during the dot com crash years, I had gotten used to my employers closing their doors after just two years. At the same time, I had no trouble finding employment in other web design companies. [expand full text]
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Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:17 • by Outlaw Programmer
I'm pretty sure the second guy was just making excuses as to why he wasn't hired. Clearly he just wasn't passionate enough about numbers.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:18 • by FredSaw
he guy looked like he had just finished smoking, drinking, crying, or all three, because his eyes were completely bloodshot.
I assume you mean "toking" rather than "smoking".

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:19 • by RandomDreamer (unregistered)
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:30 • by brodie
That last one seems more like a good story and not at all a WTF.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:31 • by Satanicpuppy
206232 in reply to 206228
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


I once decided I'd be a rebel and have a pint of beer with my pizza lunch. The instant it appeared on my table, in walks my bosses AA, and the AA for human resources.

Not great, but I don't really care about them, and frankly one beer should be acceptable for anyone.

Within the next 5 minutes they were joined by (in order), my Boss, the head of HR, and the CEO.

I ended up swiping a straw, and drinking the whole pint through it.

Moral of the story; if you stay near work, you accept that you can run into anyone

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:36 • by ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered)
206233 in reply to 206232
Satanicpuppy:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


I once decided I'd be a rebel and have a pint of beer with my pizza lunch. The instant it appeared on my table, in walks my bosses AA, and the AA for human resources.

Not great, but I don't really care about them, and frankly one beer should be acceptable for anyone.

Within the next 5 minutes they were joined by (in order), my Boss, the head of HR, and the CEO.

I ended up swiping a straw, and drinking the whole pint through it.

Moral of the story; if you stay near work, you accept that you can run into anyone


If your boss is in AA, he should be the one concerned about drinking on the job.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:43 • by Markp
206234 in reply to 206228
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


Would be, if it hadn't already been done before! (Can't think of the episode, but I think it's Seinfeld).

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:44 • by A Nonny Mouse
206235 in reply to 206234
Markp:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


Would be, if it hadn't already been done before! (Can't think of the episode, but I think it's Seinfeld).


it was in Friends

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 10:44 • by Anon (unregistered)
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:02 • by Mikkel (unregistered)
206239 in reply to 206236
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.


I think its the latter. Or in my case I want the invisibility to rob banks :)

How about testing?

2008-07-16 11:07 • by Kozz (unregistered)
I've done some interviews recently. I could understand if we're looking for someone who has established ideas and philosophies regarding testing (code reviews, continuous integration, unit tests) that this guy wouldn't cut the mustard.

If the answer is, "Uh.. yeah..." I think maybe I'd let him walk, too.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:21 • by cys (unregistered)
206248 in reply to 206236
Great perverts think alike.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:22 • by Otis P Criblecoblis (unregistered)
Team lead: How do you feel about numbers?

I like most numbers. Except threes. Threes are evil. Threes cause most of the problems in the world. Death to threes!!!

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:28 • by ObiWayneKenobi
The first is, sadly, all too common. Business owners want the skills, but don't want to pay for it, in part because they think that what we do is trivially simple. I blame the proliferation of nitwits who know a little PHP or Photoshop and try to pass themselves off as real professionals.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:28 • by Justice (unregistered)
206252 in reply to 206232
Satanicpuppy:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


I once decided I'd be a rebel and have a pint of beer with my pizza lunch. The instant it appeared on my table, in walks my bosses AA, and the AA for human resources.

Not great, but I don't really care about them, and frankly one beer should be acceptable for anyone.

Within the next 5 minutes they were joined by (in order), my Boss, the head of HR, and the CEO.

I ended up swiping a straw, and drinking the whole pint through it.

Moral of the story; if you stay near work, you accept that you can run into anyone


The first WTF is that your boss or anyone else would care that much if you have a brew with lunch.

But the REAL WTF is drinking your beer through a straw. What's next, a sippy cup?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:29 • by Siloria
Is it not possible that "the minimum wage" in the first story could refer to something other than the "U.S. Minimum Wage"? According to the story the interviewer seems to use the terms interchangeably. Am I really the only one who has had an interviewer confuse the terms "wage" and "salary"?

I was sure that was the direction this story was going: The interviewee flies off the handle at the suggestion that he would only be paid "the minimum wage" only after his bridge burning to discover that "the minimum wage" being discussed is actually $75,000/year + benefits.

The real WTF is that the guy flew off the handle before confirming, at least according to the account, what exactly "the minimum wage" was describing. Regardless of the salary being offered there is something to be said for being professional and acting like one deserves the money they are worth.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:30 • by anon (unregistered)
25.806975801127880315188420605149 is the root of all evil

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:32 • by Anon (unregistered)
How do you feel about numbers?

I love numbers, except the rational ones. We won't be working with any rational numbers here, will we?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:32 • by JonC (unregistered)
206256 in reply to 206236
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.


I want to know whether he decided on invisibility before or after his current boss walked in?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:33 • by ObiWayneKenobi
206257 in reply to 206253
Siloria:
Is it not possible that "the minimum wage" in the first story could refer to something other than the "U.S. Minimum Wage"?

Am I really the only one who has had an interviewer confuse the terms "wage" and "salary"?



The term "minimum wage" has an explicit, understood meaning, at least in the US. The interviewee was justified in assuming that's what it meant, because if the interviewer didn't mean exactly that, he wouldn't have used the words "minimum wage".

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:34 • by taylonr
206258 in reply to 206253
Siloria:
Is it not possible that "the minimum wage" in the first story could refer to something other than the "U.S. Minimum Wage"?

Am I really the only one who has had an interviewer confuse the terms "wage" and "salary"?

I was sure that was the direction this story was going: The interviewee flies off the handle at the suggestion that he would only be paid "the minimum wage" only after his bridge burning to discover that "the minimum wage" being discussed is actually $75,000/year.

The real WTF is that the guy flew off the handle before confirming, at least according to the account, what exactly "the minimum wage" was describing. Regardless of the salary being offered there is something to be said for being professional and acting like one deserves the money they are worth.


I worked for a company in which each salary grade had a minimum and maximum value. If you got promoted to a new salary grade, you automatically got the minimum. (Which was cool the one time I got to jump 2 grades.)

They also did raises based on % of mid point. So if you were over the mid point your raise was a smaller percent than if you were under. With the idea being that by the time you reached mid point, you should really be working for a promotion.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:36 • by taylonr
206259 in reply to 206249
Otis P Criblecoblis:
Team lead: How do you feel about numbers?

I like most numbers. Except threes. Threes are evil. Threes cause most of the problems in the world. Death to threes!!!


For a counseling class I took we had to do mock sessions. One of mine involved a guy who had a self-professed phobia of the letter 'Y'. Since it was all made up situations when I heard that, I died laughing. The auditor didn't find it as funny, but I didn't lose any marks from it either.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:36 • by WC (unregistered)
You don't pay salaried employees 'minimum wage' if you mean the legal lower limit on wages. That's absolutely ridiculous. The only other option is the company's minimum for that option, and is most likely what they meant. He burned that bridge a bit early.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:42 • by Charles (unregistered)
Who needs a superpower if you have Batman's utility belt?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:43 • by SenTree
206264 in reply to 206254
anon:
25.806975801127880315188420605149 is the root of all evil

24.8193472...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/616_(number)

(Well, what did you expect?)

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:50 • by Zylon
206265 in reply to 206227
FredSaw:
he guy looked like he had just finished smoking, drinking, crying, or all three, because his eyes were completely bloodshot.
I assume you mean "toking" rather than "smoking".

Because they couldn't possibly mean the same thing, right? Right?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:51 • by I think I know those guys... (unregistered)
...the job was obviously for an office slave. They even called it an intern position. They spent all three interviews convincing me they couldn't get anyone to work for free before finally asking me to work for free. Then they were offended when I asked for more money.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:55 • by mathew (unregistered)
Maybe it's me, but I don't see what's so wrong about the "Can you be more specific?" questions.

If I were asked the question about numbers, I'd assume it was a lead-in to the interviewer wanting me to talk about the importance of accurate BCD-based fixed point arithmetic in banking applications, rather than inaccurate binary floating point.

And if you can't talk about your preferred methodology for testing, you shouldn't be developing software.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:56 • by Yanman (unregistered)
The best superpower is the power to manipulate atoms ( on a subatomar level ). If you can do that, you can do anything.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 11:58 • by taylonr
206269 in reply to 206267
mathew:
Maybe it's me, but I don't see what's so wrong about the "Can you be more specific?" questions.

If I were asked the question about numbers, I'd assume it was a lead-in to the interviewer wanting me to talk about the importance of accurate BCD-based fixed point arithmetic in banking applications, rather than inaccurate binary floating point.

And if you can't talk about your preferred methodology for testing, you shouldn't be developing software.


Seems to me that the point of that story was not that they were asking those types of questions, but rather they were asking vague questions because they had to ask someone. The WTF was that they were doing interviews with no intention of hiring. They could have just as asked "pink or green?" And it wouldn't have been more WTF

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:05 • by Vechni
206273 in reply to 206268
Yanman:
The best superpower is the power to manipulate atoms ( on a subatomar level ). If you can do that, you can do anything.


yeah but it would take forever to manipulate all the atoms needed to do anything useful (and still have enough precision to do anything useful).

There, the best power is... the power to have all the powers i want.

ps: Plus I can into the future, but better than kyle.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:05 • by FredSaw
206274 in reply to 206265
Zylon:
FredSaw:
he guy looked like he had just finished smoking, drinking, crying, or all three, because his eyes were completely bloodshot.
I assume you mean "toking" rather than "smoking".

Because they couldn't possibly mean the same thing, right? Right?
Correct. If you specify what is being smoked, then yes, it can refer to marijuana use. Used by themselves, the two words don't mean the same thing. Here, try substituting one for the other below.

Boss: "Where's Frank?"
Mary: "He stepped outside to smoke."

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:10 • by savar
206275 in reply to 206234
Markp:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


Would be, if it hadn't already been done before! (Can't think of the episode, but I think it's Seinfeld).


I'm damn near a Seinfeld expert, and I don't remember that ever happening (off the top of my head).

In Ferris Bueller, however, they go out to a nice restaurant and he sees his dad is already eating there.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:12 • by fruey (unregistered)
206277 in reply to 206249
Otis P Criblecoblis:
Team lead: How do you feel about numbers?

I like most numbers. Except threes. Threes are evil. Threes cause most of the problems in the world. Death to threes!!!


Two's company, three's are evil

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:21 • by BasketCase (unregistered)
That actually happened to me once at a lunch interview. Luckily I was interviewing because the company I was working for was going out of business and my boss was there for an interview as well. We ended up sharing a table so we could compliment each other.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:23 • by Brady Kelly (proudly in Jo'burg) (unregistered)
206279 in reply to 206236
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.


Only you're a pervert. My reasons for being invisible wouldn't begin at voyeurism.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:25 • by John (unregistered)
206280 in reply to 206279
Brady Kelly (proudly in Jo'burg):
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.


Only you're a pervert. My reasons for being invisible wouldn't begin at voyeurism.


But you'd end up there...

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:31 • by shuryno (unregistered)
206281 in reply to 206236
I guess that's why it's mostly women that get the invisibility, we all know the good of humanity would come in second if it was given to a perv...hum geek.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:35 • by jbrecken (unregistered)
206282 in reply to 206236
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.

Real perverts choose shape shifting. Not only can you use it to sneak into women's locker rooms, but you can also do freaky Zeus tricks like turning into a swan in the middle of coitus.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:37 • by amischiefr
206283 in reply to 206251
ObiWayneKenobi:
The first is, sadly, all too common. Business owners want the skills, but don't want to pay for it, in part because they think that what we do is trivially simple. I blame the proliferation of nitwits who know a little PHP or Photoshop and try to pass themselves off as real professionals.


Yeah, I had one guy who interviewed me tell me that he could get quality programmers for 30k so I should be happy with what I get. So I naturally had to ask "Where, in India? If you want to outsource, why are you interviewing here?". He looked a little mad at that. I am willing to be that he still hasn't found a "quality" programmer for 30k yet :)

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:38 • by ObiWayneKenobi
206284 in reply to 206282
jbrecken:
Real perverts choose shape shifting. Not only can you use it to sneak into women's locker rooms, but you can also do freaky Zeus tricks like turning into a swan in the middle of coitus.


This. For the Uber Win.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:39 • by amischiefr
206286 in reply to 206277
fruey:
Otis P Criblecoblis:
Team lead: How do you feel about numbers?

I like most numbers. Except threes. Threes are evil. Threes cause most of the problems in the world. Death to threes!!!


Two's company, three's are evil


Not a fan of the threesome??? Shame on you...

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:53 • by Gabriel (unregistered)
206290 in reply to 206232
RandomDreamer:
On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


In fact that happened with Rachel on a Friends episode in the 10th season. Very funny, as always.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 12:54 • by kermit (unregistered)
Maciek, czy to ty ? :)

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:01 • by JamesQMurphy (unregistered)
How do you feel about numbers?


I only like the smooth numbers, like 0's and 8's.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:07 • by FredSaw
206294 in reply to 206282
jbrecken:
...but you can also do freaky Zeus tricks like turning into a swan in the middle of coitus.
Hence the classic line from The Big Bopper: "I feel real loose, like a long-necked goose".

And yeah, I know Jerry Lee made it famous. But the Bopper wrote it.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:10 • by Bryan (unregistered)
I have to disagree with invisibility being the best super power. over a few weeks, some friends and I all did a study on what would be the best super power based on the following criteria.

1. potential for profit.
2. potential for helping mankind.
3. probability of being caught, stuck in a lab and studied if exposed.

The idea was to find the power with which you could achieve the most results with the least bit of detection.

Flying would be fun but the first time you flew, the government would catch you and you would be hidden in area 51 for the remainder of your years.

Invisibility sounds nice but doesn't imply that you have no mass. So you are invisible but still have to use doors, make zero noise, and mask your body heat and odor. You can still be hit by a car when you have forgotten that you are invisible as you are walking through a cross walk. It is just not good.

Just a couple examples.
at any rate, after analyzing every power we could think of from breathing under water to "My seamen cures cancer" (that one had potential)

We deduced that mind control over others was the best.
You can achieve any human action through no actions of your own.

You can:
make your boss give you a raise.

Make the banker err in your favor for a few grand and make his boss not fire him for it.

Make "the man" Lower the price of gas

Sure w/ invisibility, you can go into the girl's locker room but with mind control, they come over to your house. :)



Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:15 • by Erzengel
206296 in reply to 206275
savar:
Markp:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


Would be, if it hadn't already been done before! (Can't think of the episode, but I think it's Seinfeld).


I'm damn near a Seinfeld expert, and I don't remember that ever happening (off the top of my head).

In Ferris Bueller, however, they go out to a nice restaurant and he sees his dad is already eating there.

Let's try reading something from 2 hours before your post:
A Nonny Mouse:
Markp:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


Would be, if it hadn't already been done before! (Can't think of the episode, but I think it's Seinfeld).


it was in Friends


Why do people refuse to read all comments before posting?

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:16 • by Buddy (unregistered)
206297 in reply to 206236
Anon:
think it was due to agreeing with my new boss that being invisible would be the best superhero ability to possess.

It's funny, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw the super power question. Either great minds think alike, or we're all perverts.


Invisibility wouldn't be so great. Technically, you wouldn't be able to see, because your eyes wouldn't absorb any light. If you made an exception that your retina would be visible, then you still couldn't see without an opaque sclera, and a lens. Essentially you would be two bulging eyes floating in space. Quite gross actually.

Re: The Starting Salary and More

2008-07-16 13:18 • by ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered)
206298 in reply to 206252
Justice:
Satanicpuppy:
RandomDreamer:
TRWTF is choosing a nearby restaurant where your boss/coworker normally would go.

On the other hand that is hilarious setup for a comedy sitcom episode.


I once decided I'd be a rebel and have a pint of beer with my pizza lunch. The instant it appeared on my table, in walks my bosses AA, and the AA for human resources.

Not great, but I don't really care about them, and frankly one beer should be acceptable for anyone.

Within the next 5 minutes they were joined by (in order), my Boss, the head of HR, and the CEO.

I ended up swiping a straw, and drinking the whole pint through it.

Moral of the story; if you stay near work, you accept that you can run into anyone


The first WTF is that your boss or anyone else would care that much if you have a brew with lunch.

But the REAL WTF is drinking your beer through a straw. What's next, a sippy cup?


I think the idea there was if drinking through a straw, the boss wouldn't realize it was a beer.
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