Comment On We Need a Body

Although Brice hadn't been on the job for very long, he'd gotten pretty comfortable with leading technical interviews. He'd quickly compiled a stock set of questions that could weed out the hacks. Questions that immediately disqualify you for the position if you get them wrong: What is your first name? Name a .NET language. Questions that almost certainly disqualify you if you get them wrong: What datatype would you use to store a string of characters? Is it C sharp or C pound? [expand full text]
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Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 13:48 • by NotanEnglishMajor (unregistered)
182156 in reply to 181706
masonReloaded:
Doesn't matter, both are widely used and "ess-cue-ell" is the 'official pronunciation':

"SQL was adopted as a standard by ANSI in 1986 and ISO in 1987. In the original SQL standard, ANSI declared that the official pronunciation for SQL is "es queue el". However, many English-speaking database professionals still use the nonstandard pronunciation /ˈsiːkwəl/ (like the word "sequel")"


Dates back to the early days of mainframe database technology (please forgive the pun). The actual name of the language is:

Standard English Query Language - SEQL

This was later sortened to Standard Query Language - SQL

By the time this happened, however, the common usage of "sequel" had already become entrenched.

-Notan

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 13:51 • by NotanEnglishMajor (unregistered)
182157 in reply to 182156
NotanEnglishMajor:
masonReloaded:
Doesn't matter, both are widely used and "ess-cue-ell" is the 'official pronunciation':

"SQL was adopted as a standard by ANSI in 1986 and ISO in 1987. In the original SQL standard, ANSI declared that the official pronunciation for SQL is "es queue el". However, many English-speaking database professionals still use the nonstandard pronunciation /ˈsiːkwəl/ (like the word "sequel")"


Dates back to the early days of mainframe database technology (please forgive the pun). The actual name of the language is:

Standard English Query Language - SEQL

This was later sortened to Standard Query Language - SQL

By the time this happened, however, the common usage of "sequel" had already become entrenched.

-Notan


Ugh! That would be Structured NOT Standard.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 13:52 • by real_aardvark
182158 in reply to 181771
john:
"Programming is programming. As long as the person knows how to code, picking up new languages is pretty simple." = bullshit. i rejected someone last week for saying approximately the same thing. if you/he think you/he can become a useful java programmer when all you know is VB programming, you/he are crazed.

Why? Because it's utterly impossible to become a useful java programmer?

Man, I look forward to the flames on that one.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 14:13 • by ... (unregistered)
182164 in reply to 181624
I smell BS or just too much drama in this story...

When Corey was asked about C# while eating, there would be no way that he'd confused it by saying "C pou- er- sharp."
because Corey would already have pronounced the word C#.

If that's the author's attempt at humor,

you fail. WTF.

Don't make stories up.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:13 • by javaweeny
182192 in reply to 182164
I promise this story is not made up. Simplified for the sake of the post, yes. It is true, it was a terrible place to work. The fact that several of you think this is B.S. shows how ridiculous this place is and I'm glad I'm not there anymore.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:35 • by C. F. Martin (unregistered)
But his most outrageous statement during the interview went like this:

"...but I know that if I were asked to redesign the application I work on from the ground up, I could do a good job of it."

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:42 • by The General
182202 in reply to 181624
SnapShot:
So which is it, C Sharp, C pound, C hash, C number sign or C octothorp?

It's C-štvorlístok!

...er, should have read through the thread first. I bet someone's already said that. In that case, my second choice is C-tic-tac-toe.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:48 • by The General
182203 in reply to 181927
Rick:
'Oglethorpe'?

Been there. There's not much to see.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:53 • by The General
182204 in reply to 181949
Anon Barbarzyńca:
Kederaji:
It's pronounced C-durIdon'treadthethreadbeforeposting.


No, it's spelled C-durIdon'treadthethreadbeforeposting but you pronounce it as Throat Warbler Mangrove.

You are a very silly person and I'm not going to quote you.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-07 15:59 • by octavian (unregistered)
182206 in reply to 181624
Octothorp, anyone knows that! hgello!

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-08 05:12 • by dmitriy
I have read this thread and believe many of you missed the point of this story. The point is the management WTF of hiring a clearly incompetent worker.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-08 09:02 • by Péter (unregistered)
C# may be pronounced as C-tic-tac-toe, but I am sure it should be thoughtread as "Cis" [tsis].

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-08 14:11 • by DaveK
182295 in reply to 181796
Homer:
MMMmmmmmm, C hash.

C hash.
C hash run.
Run, hash, run!

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-08 15:24 • by Ghlar'kuul (unregistered)
oh yes, this sounds just about right... packing in bodies , just on the VERBAL / superficial assurance from the candidate "i can do C#" and then the candidate ends up not knowing what a webservice /SQL stored procedure is.

im no know-it-all , but hey, we cant always do EVERYTHING with NOTHING....

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 03:12 • by justme (unregistered)
182319 in reply to 181678
I LOL.

I think that's the case. I also work with someone that basically does nothing because he just can't do it, yeah the boss knows.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 17:14 • by Victor (unregistered)
182343 in reply to 181624
Brice was happy this guy was not hired to be his boss for the perfect soft skills.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 17:17 • by Victor (unregistered)
182344 in reply to 181639
Brilliant! Are we in the same company?

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 20:43 • by Hamstray (unregistered)
C♯ != D♭

C♯ (C sharp) is a musical note lying a chromatic semitone above C and a diatonic semitone below D.
D♭ (D flat) is a musical note lying a diatonic semitone above C and a chromatic semitone below D.

this is not the same thing unless you assume lame-ass equal temperament

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 21:05 • by real_aardvark
182356 in reply to 182351
Hamstray:
C♯ != D♭

C♯ (C sharp) is a musical note lying a chromatic semitone above C and a diatonic semitone below D.
D♭ (D flat) is a musical note lying a diatonic semitone above C and a chromatic semitone below D.

this is not the same thing unless you assume lame-ass equal temperament

And we're back to the Well-Tempered Clavier: and not before time. I'm interested that you think that equal temperament is lame-ass, because it appears to be something of an ongoing issue amongst musicologists (at least with regard to JSB's work, which is as good a place to start as any).

However, the distinction between a chromatic semitone and a diatonic semitone is new to me (because I'm ignorant -- ok, I admit it). Nice and simple, and I can understand it.

I wonder what the rest of the crap on this thread was about?

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-09 21:06 • by Indima (unregistered)
Ehh, so what is this WTF? Brice is an assh*le and his boss is a good decent guy? The applicant got the break he deserved and Brice learnt a lesson... Looking at the comments here just makes me sad. Were you all raised in a strerile cyberspace where compassion and care for your fellow man has no value. Some of u are just pathet*c.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 08:41 • by Ashar (unregistered)
182393 in reply to 181624
In France, it is "C dièse".

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 10:11 • by Pope (unregistered)
182416 in reply to 182351
Hamstray?! A fellow HR enthusiast. Good jorb.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 10:25 • by Keith (unregistered)
182428 in reply to 181624
It's C Sharp. Really. It is.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 10:57 • by nymous (unregistered)
182439 in reply to 181624
I fell lucky I don't have a gay boss.

(captcha: eros)

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 11:51 • by Rhialto (unregistered)
182461 in reply to 181634
mccoyn:
I'm a little disappointed he didn't ask what the letters in SQL stand for, just to be sure this guy knew absolutely nothing about it.

Why, it means Silly Question Language. Everybody knows that, right?

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 13:27 • by Pfft... WHAT?! (unregistered)
182507 in reply to 182357
Indima:
Ehh, so what is this WTF? Brice is an assh*le and his boss is a good decent guy? The applicant got the break he deserved and Brice learnt a lesson... Looking at the comments here just makes me sad. Were you all raised in a strerile cyberspace where compassion and care for your fellow man has no value. Some of u are just pathet*c.


I hope this is sarcasm. Not everyone deserves a fair chance because they have a sob story. I mean, I feel bad for the guy, but... There is such a thing as lying and some do it all the time to get something they don't deserve. And lying on a resume is grounds for being written off completely. He obviously lied about the abilities needed to function at this place, which means he doesn't deserve the job because he will prove to be incompetent.

Incompetence breeds excessive bureaucracy. If you want more of that in your company, hire every charity case that you come across. You will have processes upon useless, banal processes watching processes. I promise you.

Sorry... probably a bit of misdirected hostility, but this welfare system where mediocrity is celebrated is what's destroying America's ability to function. Why try when you get rewarded for nothing? What's the point of becoming specialized and going that extra mile if you're going to be replaced by a theology major that took a Web Interfaces class? (That didn't happen to me, but it did happen to one of my friends.)

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 16:36 • by Hamstray (unregistered)
Excellent. We have Body.
Now, Igor go out and fetch me a fresh brain!

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 16:39 • by real_aardvark
182566 in reply to 182507
Pfft... WHAT?!:
Incompetence breeds excessive bureaucracy.

Oh, look, a knee-jerk Republican. Isn't he cute? I wonder when they'll come up with syllogisms that actually make sense, or can be measured in the real world.

There are more incompetencies in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Halliburton, for one.

Pfft... WHAT?!:
What's the point of becoming specialized and going that extra mile if you're going to be replaced by a theology major that took a Web Interfaces class? (That didn't happen to me, but it did happen to one of my friends.)

Tell your friend to take a Master's in the appropriate degree -- in this case, Theology. That's the American Way. Tailor your talents to what the Market wants.

Otherwise, stop bleating.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 16:52 • by kayeff
Okay, I swear I have read every comment here, so I am very sorry if I missed this one:

I think it's C+=2.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-10 21:35 • by Craig (unregistered)
I don't think anyone has posted this one yet.

It is clearly called "C double double dagger".

Explanation: The little cross shaped symbol (†) used for postscripts is often called a dagger. The double of the symbol (‡) is a double dagger. So the # symbol is clearly a double double dagger.

Additionally I have heard it secribed (in my country at least) as "hatch" (from "crosshatch") rather than "hash".

As an aside, "C pound" confused me until I remembered that you Americans don't use SI units.

Cheers
Craig

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 03:32 • by Jay (unregistered)
182627 in reply to 181771
john:
"Programming is programming. As long as the person knows how to code, picking up new languages is pretty simple." = bullshit. i rejected someone last week for saying approximately the same thing. if you/he think you/he can become a useful java programmer when all you know is VB programming, you/he are crazed.

I guess I won't be applying for a job at your company either. If a Java programmer can't learn the rudiments of VB (I originally wrote "basics" but that would have led to a pun even more tired by now than "c tic-tac-toe") in a couple of weeks, I don't believe he was any good at Java, either. Sure, every language has its intricacies, and I suppose becomeing an expert <anything> programmer takes considerable time.

Let's put it this way: There's a big difference between "knowing Java" and "knowing how to develop computer systems". People in category B can pick up a new language pretty easily.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 03:34 • by Jay (unregistered)
I worked with a guy years ago who pronounced "ASCII" as "ask two". It took me a little while to realize that he apparently thought the "II" were Roman numerals.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 09:21 • by Sam (unregistered)
182676 in reply to 181624
SnapShot:
So which is it, C Sharp, C pound, C hash, C number sign or C octothorp?


I think it's C ALT+0035

Captcha: ... wait, no. My first post on here will NOT include *that* whole thing

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 09:47 • by Sam (unregistered)
182689 in reply to 181845
quarnel:

RP:
MS calls it "C sharp"


Are You Sure!
Where are your references?!



using Microsoft.Developer.Network.Languages.CSharp;


There.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 09:59 • by Sam (unregistered)
182699 in reply to 181869
I'll stop multi-posting now, but I just came across this and I just had to say:

Jon:
There's no precedent in English for inserting vowels other than schwas into the pronunciation of abbreviations. So, unless you want to pronounce SQL as "suckle," you should probably stick to spelling it out. (It's also fun to annoy people by calling it "squirrel.")


A simple search on Wikipedia would tell you that SQL was originally supposed to be SEQL, for Structured English Query Language, but there was a trademark issue with the SEQL acronym, so they removed the "English" word and it became SQL.

Hence the, what is considered "old school", pronunciation of "sequel".

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 11:41 • by Jack (unregistered)
Please share the name of this company, so I can be EXTRA, EXTRA certain to never buy their product.

Good heavens, I would have quit on the spot, pushed the boss out of my car (without stopping) and made him walk back to the office for hiring that idiot.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-11 13:15 • by Pfft... WHAT?! (unregistered)
182824 in reply to 182566
real_aardvark:
Pfft... WHAT?!:
Incompetence breeds excessive bureaucracy.

Oh, look, a knee-jerk Republican. Isn't he cute? I wonder when they'll come up with syllogisms that actually make sense, or can be measured in the real world.

There are more incompetencies in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Halliburton, for one.

Pfft... WHAT?!:
What's the point of becoming specialized and going that extra mile if you're going to be replaced by a theology major that took a Web Interfaces class? (That didn't happen to me, but it did happen to one of my friends.)

Tell your friend to take a Master's in the appropriate degree -- in this case, Theology. That's the American Way. Tailor your talents to what the Market wants.

Otherwise, stop bleating.


Uhh.... Thanks for arguing my point? You are being sarcastic, right?

I mean... Talking about crappy syllogisms, lets quote Shakespeare and then give an example of supreme incompetence breeding bureaucracy. Halliburton is an excellent reason why we have to make rules that shouldn't have to be there in the first place. But people are d'bags and liars, and rules are made so the interested parties don't get screwed. (Ermm... no pun intended. Seriously.)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You think that my web developer friend needs to get a Master's in theology so he can be a better programmer? I mean, he has a Master's in CS, but if you think he should go back for a Theology degree to better function in his job I'll let him know. "Hey, Mike? [...] Yeah, I just wanted to let you know that this guy real_aardvark on this website thinks you could be better at your job if you went back to school. [...] Well, no. He thinks you should go back for a Theology degree. [...] A Master's in Theology. [...] Well, he thinks that you'll be a better developer if you do. [...] Okay, I'll let him know."

Mike says you're an idiot.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-12 21:39 • by delltech (unregistered)
183258 in reply to 181624
According to the Wikipedia article on the C# programming language, the correct pronunciation is "C sharp".

And like Corey, I don't know anything about it either.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-13 09:58 • by Strike (unregistered)
183337 in reply to 181624
It's C Tic-Tac-Toe, get it right ><

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-14 12:45 • by OBloodyhell (unregistered)
183751 in reply to 181624
None of the above... it's c-four-pluses. Or C-double-double-plus. Cause we all know, it's a Microsoft product, which makes it double-double-plus-ungood.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-14 13:01 • by OBloodyhell (unregistered)
183757 in reply to 183751
> "Programming is programming. As long as the person knows how to code, picking up new languages is pretty simple." = bullshit. i rejected someone last week for saying approximately the same thing. if you/he think you/he can become a useful java programmer when all you know is VB programming, you/he are crazed.

There is some truth to this, but the more you know about coding the easier it is to pick up something in the same vein. I've used numerous procedural languages over the last thirty years. I've also programmed and used a number of procedural database tools, DBase II, III, IV, etc., as well as other more obscure ones. I picked up Oracle SQL, which is, at heart, still a procedural language well enough inside of two months to utilize one of its constructs in a unique enough way that my boss, who's been using it for over 10 years, and posts responses regularly on Tom Kite's webpage, had never seen the construct used that way before. I would not say I'm an expert at it, but I'm probably at least as good as 30-40% of the Oracle coders out there... I can and have set up 3 and 4 level select statements to tease data into the form and organization I wanted (and yes, I know I might be doing it the "hard" way by that, if I'm doing it wrong).

OTOH, I've yet to do anything with actual event-driven coding. I'm sure that, when I pick that up, it will take me a lot longer to add the paradigm to my toolset than it would to "just add a new language", if the language is essentially procedural in nature as opposed to event driven coding.

I think the key issue is the amount of paradigm shifting that needs to be done to "pick up the new language" -- are the languages similar underneath? Are the design constructs alike? This is far more important than the actual language involved. It is a lot easier for an English speaker to pick up French than Mandarin Chinese.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-14 13:45 • by Admin password (unregistered)
183774 in reply to 181667
DOA:
A few near misses later (think 4 letter admin passwords on public sites) we're all a little bit wiser.
What The Four letter admin password!!??

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-16 16:47 • by lrucker (unregistered)
I worked with a guy years ago who pronounced "ASCII" as "ask two". It took me a little while to realize that he apparently thought the "II" were Roman numerals.


Back in HS, I'd just come from computer class to English where one of my classmates asked me what AS stood for in a dictionary entry. Still being in programming mode, I said "American Standard" as in ASCII - of course it really meant Anglo-Saxon.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-20 03:47 • by jyjgrf (unregistered)
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Re: We Need a Body

2008-03-20 10:36 • by Micah Rousey (unregistered)
184968 in reply to 181624
Ooooohhhhh. I think I'm going to start calling it

C octothorp.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-04-06 05:15 • by Earl Purple
what's this tic-tac-toe nonsense?

It's C Noughts And Crosses.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-04-13 00:13 • by nex (unregistered)
189476 in reply to 181624
*looks as if suspecting a trick question*

Where I used to work we always called it C doubleplusgood.

Re: We Need a Body

2008-04-13 08:54 • by SpamBot (unregistered)
189486 in reply to 181701
FredSaw:
Paolo G:
Here's a question... what do American's call "£"? *That* is the pound sign (and was the pound sign long before the US was even a twinkle in the Founding Fathers' eyes...).
We don't call it anything. We don't use it. What do you call this? $

Examples of its use:
$100
$get(chkApproval);
Dim SomeString$
$accountingSystemVendor


dollar

</obvious>

Re: We Need a Body

2008-04-14 08:02 • by Dippsle (unregistered)
189538 in reply to 181624
Always C-hash.

A musical sharp sign looks totally different (slanted and different thicknesses of lines)

A pound sign looks like £

And an octothorpe was an early attempt to patent an existing generic object

Plus it made a hash of the C language!

Re: We Need a Body

2008-05-02 06:00 • by David Arno (unregistered)
192695 in reply to 181624
You forgot C gate.
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