Comment On We'll Be In Touch Maybe

You're special, reader. You're probably a developer and since you read this site you probably care about writing code that won't ultimately wind up being featured here. And you're hard for employers to find because you're probably employed and not looking for a job. [expand full text]
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Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 10:55 • by digdug (unregistered)
148501 in reply to 148470
NeoMojo:
anon:
Top Cod3r:
Its obvious that Brent, having lacked experience in hiring developers, failed to accurately advertise the requirements for the position he was trying to fill. Now that he has gotten the wrong type of candidate, he's trying to cover up his own mistake by ripping on the applicant.

If it were me, I would hire Alvin immediately after the phone interview, because its obvious that he is the kind of go to guy who you can count on to find the answer and solve problems on his own using Internet resources when necessary. And they didn't say, but if this was a telecommuniting position, he seems like the perfect fit.

Maybe Brent should go read some books on interviewing skills and not publicly ridicule applicants for his job posting. Its no wonder he can't hire anyone.


There can be no doubt- "Top Cod3r" is Alvin.
Hey Alvin, now that you know what static means, can you tell us what instantiate means? How's that "solving problems on [your] own using Internet resources", learning how to code one frigging word at a time thing working out for you?


You might already be aware but, top cod3r is a troll and often makes an appearance in a thread, posts something stupid and then leaves. if you see top cod3r in future, just ignore it.

Top cod3r would then be a crap troll if you STFU then.
He posts crap.
Someone corrects crap.
The End.
No argument, thus crap troll.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:13 • by DOA
148502 in reply to 148477
KenW:
diaphanein:

I definitely look down upon 6 pages of resume. Especially when its riddles with typos and bad grammar. Not that I'm trying to be grammar/spelling police, by any means, but people, please. Your resume is the first (and potentially last) impression you make with an interviewer. PROOF READ. I recently had a guy that graduated in "Sprint 2005". (Although, spelling and grammar aside, he actually turned out to be a good interview).


Did you mean "it's riddled with typos and bad grammar." instead? PROOF READ. Always a good suggestion; just wish more people would pay attention.


Youse ppl cant writ. First lern to spel, then post.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:14 • by Pedant (unregistered)
148503 in reply to 148465
grammar jerk:
diaphanein:

I definitely look down upon 6 pages of resume. Especially when its riddles with typos and bad grammar. Not that I'm trying to be grammar/spelling police, by any means, but people, please. Your resume is the first (and potentially last) impression you make with an interviewer. PROOF READ. I recently had a guy that graduated in "Sprint 2005". (Although, spelling and grammar aside, he actually turned out to be a good interview).


I love posts about grammar that have bad grammar themselves. Proofread is one word. Riddles is the wrong tense. "but people, please" is a goofy colloquialism. Yay!


Skitt's law

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:22 • by FredSaw
148504 in reply to 148451
Nico:
It makes sense when you consider that regex is short for "regular expression".
<pedantry>How about guys who pronounce "varchar" with a soft ch (as in "charred flesh" and so that both syllables rhyme with "far"? Can you say variable-character? And then there's Regedit pronounced with a hard "g" -- what is that short for--Reggistry Editor?</pedantry>

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:26 • by Steve (unregistered)
148505 in reply to 148457
I've got over 30 years in IT (yes, we do exist and I did work with punch cards!!!) and mine is just two pages in length.
But I think it's down to who your target audience is. I'm a contractor and prospectve employers are only interested in what you've done in the last six to twelve months and that's what I focus on. In fact, I have two or three versions of CV with each one emphasizing particular aspects or skills. I try and match what the client is seeking in the job advert and send that flavour of the CV to the agency.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:29 • by dkf (unregistered)
148507 in reply to 148487
EvanED:
"char" is short for "character" so, by that logic, should be pronounced almost like "care", but in my experience, both "car" and "char" (like charred wood) are more common.
That's bizarre! Tell me, how do you pronounce "character", and why would you think that "care" is a good contracted version?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:34 • by Stephen Harris (unregistered)
I was interviewing for a junior Solaris SA. This candidate came along claiming he'd been an SA at an ISP and helped set up colocated machines for customers, including database servers, file servers, web servers.

He hadn't done too well on the written test we gave people so I asked him a simple question which would have fallen directly into the area he'd worked in; how would you tune a Solaris machine for databases. This is a nice open ended question allowing the interviewee to go into depth as much as he liked (basic: "shared memory"; better "shared memory settings in /etc/system"; advanced would even mention things like shmmax and shmmni; really advanced would explain what those settings actually do). An interviewee with just the basic answer would be drawn out to see how far his knowledge went.

If you've ever had to install Oracle or Sybase then you'll know about this (although you can ignore their recommendations and it'll probably work). Someone who's meant to have done this for a customer definitely should know it.

This person had troubles. He didn't understand the question. I didn't expect him to be a mind reader so I took it simpler and mentioned "shared memory" to him. Blankness. So I asked where you'd tune the shared memory settings. An attempted bluff ("kernel tuning").

After a few minutes of trying to get the name of this important file (/etc/system) from him he let slip that his installation was more along the lines of racking a machine and running amounted build processes. He then blurted out "These aren't fair questions!"

I just looked at the HR person; he looked at me. The interview finished.

captcha: smile; I do in memory of this interview :-)

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:48 • by Bob N Freely (unregistered)
148510 in reply to 148418
Dave Krause:
You must never have been, nor hired, a contractor before then. I have worked on 20 different projects in the past 5 years. I usually spare the gory details of all of them on my resume.

Still a red flag to you? Then you are the one missing out, not the resume writer.

Also you overlook the part of the process the got that resume in front of you in the first place. Some HR person or head hunter, with absolutely no IT experience at all, scans resume databases looking for the key words you wrote in your requirements.


Contractors are a special case. What I want to see from them is a summary of the technologies they have experience with, and more detail on any projects they've worked on in the last 5 years that they feel are particularly significant.

Hiring is not my main function. I am a developer that does technical interviews on the side. So I have very little time to go over resumes. If I have to go through 50 in an hour, I guarantee a 6 page resume will only get a brief glance. If I like what I see, I may go over the rest of it. So make sure you get all the important stuff in the first two pages.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:51 • by EvanED
148511 in reply to 148507
dkf:
EvanED:
"char" is short for "character" so, by that logic, should be pronounced almost like "care", but in my experience, both "car" and "char" (like charred wood) are more common.
That's bizarre! Tell me, how do you pronounce "character", and why would you think that "care" is a good contracted version?


I say it something like "care-eck-ter", same as almost every else I've ever hear say it. I certainly don't pronounce the h (so it doesn't sound like char-act-or), and use a long a (so it doesn't sound like car-act-or).

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 11:54 • by anon (unregistered)
148512 in reply to 148507
dkf:
EvanED:
"char" is short for "character" so, by that logic, should be pronounced almost like "care", but in my experience, both "car" and "char" (like charred wood) are more common.
That's bizarre! Tell me, how do you pronounce "character", and why would you think that "care" is a good contracted version?


"Almost like 'care'"; not "like 'care'". In my experience, how someone pronounces "char" is an excellent indicator of how well he codes. Anyone who says char, as in "charred wood" is very likely worthless.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:07 • by Atrophy
Kind of like the guy who came to install our new network printer, and said we'd have to take our CUPS server out of the mix because "They don't make LIE-NUKS filters for this model."

I waited until he left before putting the CUPS server back in... worked like a charm.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:09 • by Joe (unregistered)
148515 in reply to 148418
Dave Krause:
You must never have been, nor hired, a contractor before then. I have worked on 20 different projects in the past 5 years. I usually spare the gory details of all of them on my resume.

Still a red flag to you? Then you are the one missing out, not the resume writer.

Also you overlook the part of the process the got that resume in front of you in the first place. Some HR person or head hunter, with absolutely no IT experience at all, scans resume databases looking for the key words you wrote in your requirements.




You're misunderstanding his point. For a contractor to work so many jobs in a short period of time is expected. He was most likely referring to a red flag being raised by someone who's held numerous full time positions in a short time frame. If the type of work is such that the typical employee stays on for years, and the person in question is bouncing around, then you have to be suspicious.

I've done the same thing when reviewing resume submissions. When someone works for just a few months at a time at about 4 or 5 companies in the past year, it makes you wonder what's going on. Again, that's assuming that he's not there as a contractor to work only on a specific project and then leave.

Captcha: ewww - I stepped in it.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:23 • by operagost
148517 in reply to 148377
whicker:
I never understand these fake facades people create in an interview setting.

That's overly redundant...

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:28 • by FredSaw
148518 in reply to 148517
whicker:
I never understand these fake facades people create in an interview setting.
The idea is to bluff their way past the interview and actually get in the door. Then hopefully they will be able to pull down a developer's salary to sit and do nothing for a few months before they're exposed and have to go back to flipping fries.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:40 • by Zygo (unregistered)
148519 in reply to 148389
Diamonds:
I would have asked what keyword do you use to create a 'goatse' class.

That would have given him the clue to not lookup the answers to questions.

PS: Don't google that word.


I wanted to see if after all these years since the site went down, if the first hit on Google was still that...picture.. After typing in the text I put my mouse over the "I'm feeling lucky" button...

That button is *so* mislabeled.

That, or I should never gamble again as long as I live.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:48 • by Zygo (unregistered)
148520 in reply to 148423
CastrTroy:
C-Pound is a little hard to believe, but I could see it happening.


The voices in my head keep saying something that sounds like "Sea Hash" or "See Hash".

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:50 • by vertagano
148521 in reply to 148507
dkf:
EvanED:
"char" is short for "character" so, by that logic, should be pronounced almost like "care", but in my experience, both "car" and "char" (like charred wood) are more common.
That's bizarre! Tell me, how do you pronounce "character", and why would you think that "care" is a good contracted version?

This will likely reflect my midwestern US accent with some great severity, but I would pronounce the first syllable of character exactly like the verb to care.
At your statement of surprise, I hit the dictionary, wondering what oddity of speech I had acquired.
Indeed, the dictionary suggests taht "care" be pronounced "ker", while character be pronounced "kar ik t<schwa>r".
Odd that the name Karen, then, starts the same as character (and is, I believe, how EvanED intended to suggest the variable type char be pronounced), while the verb "to care" has some other proper pronounciation. Can someone who sees a difference between "care" and "Karen"/"character" please give some example of what rhymes with "care"? Or something else that shares the sound of the first syllable of Karen or character?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 12:56 • by Zygo (unregistered)
148522 in reply to 148469
A Zanescu:
In C# 2.0 it can and it constrains that class to contain only
static members


...which would make it a namespace?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:01 • by Zygo (unregistered)
148524 in reply to 148475
Random832:
CastrTroy:
Hej:
I hope the "C-pound" was a joke, though I didn't get the sense of 'ha ha' afterwards....

I heard a story about a guy who worked on ASP web pages that called it asp, like the snake, instead of A-S-P. It's not completely unbelievable. According to a the "Mastering Regular Expressions" book I just finished reading, Regex is pronounced with a hard "G", like gone.


"Regex" is no more pronounced with a hard "g" than does it have an unstressed vowel in the "ex". That book is clearly full of crap. Acronyms are not necessarily pronounced as the sum of their parts.


That would mean that "regex" pretty closely rhymes with "rejects".

That can't be a coincidence.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:02 • by operagost
148525 in reply to 148514
Atrophy:
Kind of like the guy who came to install our new network printer, and said we'd have to take our CUPS server out of the mix because "They don't make LIE-NUKS filters for this model."

So, how do you say Mr. Torvalds's first name?

Lie-nuks is uncommon, but acceptable.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:24 • by Pecos Bill (unregistered)
148527 in reply to 148396
AGould:


Mainly it's a corporate CYA issue - our HR department is very insistent on not saying *anything* that can be used against the company (and that includes opinions of any type). *shrug*


A pure statement of fact is not opinion. "Sorry, we do not think you would be a good fit for the position." "Why?" "I'm not at liberty to explain per HR policy." Not optimal, but better than leaving people hanging.

How hard is that?

I'm getting captcha reuse from Firefox. WOohoo.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:45 • by Brent R. (unregistered)
148530 in reply to 148381
Actually, it was real and not an urban legend. I was the interviewer, and my supervisor had a strong respect for developer profession. She conceptually understood .NET technologies, but never coded in .NET.

Jake, of course, added a little embellishment for poetic effect, but it was as it happened--and we did ask him about inheritance. Just for fun.

CAPTCHA: tastey (Mmm. Mmm.)

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:48 • by Brent R. (the interviewer) (unregistered)
148531 in reply to 148392
This guy's resume was not so smart, and he did not have 20 years experience, and the job he was looking for (Web Developer) did not match the experience he had (Technical Writing). He mentioned C# as a "skill."

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 13:55 • by Brent R. (the interviewer) (unregistered)
148532 in reply to 148399
I hope the entirety of this message was sarcastic, not just the middle paragraph.

First of all, we did not find the candidate. A head hunter did, and the other candidates this head hunter found passed the technical screen. Each candidate was emailed the description (was was better than most I've read), and this person did not decline the interview due to mismatched skills.

In fact, of 7 phone screens we did, only 2 did not pass, and we did end up hiring a very compotent person.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:03 • by savar
148533 in reply to 148377
whicker:
If a person is that bad, why even thank the person for the time spent and why even give the "will contact you in a few weeks" speech?


For various reasons, but mainly because being a dick to people you don't know isn't a good way to do business.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:17 • by cconroy
148534 in reply to 148521
vertagano:
dkf:
EvanED:
"char" is short for "character" so, by that logic, should be pronounced almost like "care", but in my experience, both "car" and "char" (like charred wood) are more common.
That's bizarre! Tell me, how do you pronounce "character", and why would you think that "care" is a good contracted version?

This will likely reflect my midwestern US accent with some great severity, but I would pronounce the first syllable of character exactly like the verb to care.
At your statement of surprise, I hit the dictionary, wondering what oddity of speech I had acquired.
Indeed, the dictionary suggests taht "care" be pronounced "ker", while character be pronounced "kar ik t<schwa>r".
Odd that the name Karen, then, starts the same as character (and is, I believe, how EvanED intended to suggest the variable type char be pronounced), while the verb "to care" has some other proper pronounciation. Can someone who sees a difference between "care" and "Karen"/"character" please give some example of what rhymes with "care"? Or something else that shares the sound of the first syllable of Karen or character?


care = bear, pear, hair
character = Karen, barren, arrow
char = tar, bar, far

Any Bostonians here? Do you say "cha"?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:24 • by KattMan
148535 in reply to 148534
cconroy:

care = bear, pear, hair
character = Karen, barren, arrow
char = tar, bar, far

Any Bostonians here? Do you say "cha"?


In your examples, bear and barren sound the same to me as do all your examples for care and character. In each the sound made sounds exactly like air. The only exception I can possibly think of is in some dialects arrow is nor "air-oh" but rather "ar-oh".

I hear the difference for char though.

So the question still stands, where are these different?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:25 • by zack (unregistered)
148536 in reply to 148383
Sorry, most things over 10 years old are sufficiently obsolete.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:26 • by vertagano
148537 in reply to 148534
cconroy:

care = bear, pear, hair
character = Karen, barren, arrow
char = tar, bar, far

Any Bostonians here? Do you say "cha"?

So,
"barren" != "bear" + "en"

In casual speech, I pronounce the verb "to char" such that it rhyms with tar, bar, and far.

But I also pronounce care, bear, pear, hair, character, Karen, barren, and arrow all with the same vowel in the first syllable.
Based on this evidence, and nothing more, I'm guessing that this is a difference very similar to that of the vowels in "cot" and "caught" (which are --to me -- indistinguishible sounds, but I understand that many speakers, especially from England or even parts of New England, maintain a clear distinction).

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:32 • by KattMan
148538 in reply to 148537
vertagano:
I'm guessing that this is a difference very similar to that of the vowels in "cot" and "caught" (which are --to me -- indistinguishible sounds, but I understand that many speakers, especially from England or even parts of New England, maintain a clear distinction).


I think this really is kinda of the final word here. There is no wrong pronunciation, but rather regional dialects.
For me cot = tot with kind of an "aah" sound.
Caught = taught with kind of an "aww" sound.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:32 • by Spoon (unregistered)
148539 in reply to 148525
operagost:
Atrophy:
Kind of like the guy who came to install our new network printer, and said we'd have to take our CUPS server out of the mix because "They don't make LIE-NUKS filters for this model."

So, how do you say Mr. Torvalds's first name?

Lie-nuks is uncommon, but acceptable.


Just because a small inbred hunk of the population says something doesn't make it 'acceptable'

As for how one should pronounce Mr. Torvalds first name: Perhaps you should pronounce his name as he pronounces it, and pronounce his operating system as he pronounces it.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 14:54 • by Pecos Bill (unregistered)
148540 in reply to 148434
tyrannical:
The C# C pound / C sharp isn't that much of a WTF.


Or the smarta$$ in me would call it c-pound due to hating what M$ has done to the industry.

tyrannical:
I remember my database classes in college, SQL was pronounced with the letters S-Q-L. I had never heard it pronounced as "sequel" I still don't know why you would pronounce it as sequel either.


My fav: Squeakwell, a term of endearment. Orakle/Orakel spelling as I dislike it. Accidentally convinced a customer it was spelled with a k and he almost did a presentation with it spelled that way. Oops.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:01 • by Christophe (unregistered)
148541 in reply to 148486
anon:
TheRealFoo:
diaphanein:
Not that I'm trying to be grammar/spelling police, by any means, but people, please.


If people can't spell correctly in their own resume, they can't spell when programming, either.


So? In coding, spelling consistently matters, not spelling correctly.


Yes, as long as it's just you working on the project, or other people who all misspell the same way. It unnecessarily complicates work for the other people around you if they have to remember to misspell words in order to use your interfaces.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:03 • by Random832
148543 in reply to 148539
Spoon:
As for how one should pronounce Mr. Torvalds first name: Perhaps you should pronounce his name as he pronounces it, and pronounce his operating system as he pronounces it.

I think the point was, if you'd never seen it before and did not know how it was pronounced in this case, how would you pronounce it?

Or, to put it simply, how do you pronounce Mr. van Pelt's first name?

(Overlooking, for simplicity's sake, that the vowel in Torvalds' own pronunciation of both his own name and that of the kernel, informed by the fact that his native language is Swedish, is noticeably different from that with which the name of the kernel has entered common English usage.)

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:09 • by Aaron
148544 in reply to 148512
anon:
"Almost like 'care'"; not "like 'care'". In my experience, how someone pronounces "char" is an excellent indicator of how well he codes. Anyone who says char, as in "charred wood" is very likely worthless.

Char is already a word in the English language, therefore it's not necessarily going to follow the normal abbreviation rules, not that the rules are that consistent anyway. By your logic, "laser" would be pronounced "lasser", or even "lassear" (last year?) depending on dialect.

I think I'd break into giggles if I ever heard someone talking about a "vair-care" field. Sounds like a tongue-tied "care bear". Or maybe they meant to say hair care.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:10 • by Frank W. Zammetti (unregistered)
I had one better once... I don't like to ask more than a handful of technical questions because the best developers I knot don't know a ton of things off the top of their heads anyway... the best developers are generalists who can look stuff up quickly and comprehend it quickly... so my interviewing is much more about personality and thought process... do you do any open-source work at all? Do you visit technology sites on a regular basis? What was the first computer you programmed? Have you ever done any Assembly programming (that last one usually tells me whether a candidate is ultimately going to be any good or not, not because they do or don't know Assembly, but I've universally found it to be true that those that have done Assembly at some point in their lives are better developers than those that haven't, for the most part).

All that being said, there's of course a certain bar you have to be able to float above regardless, a certain minimum level of technical question you have to be able to give reasonable answers to (tell me the difference between a Map and a List is that one is keyed and one isn't and that's plenty good enough for me, I'm not looking for how their big-O notation compares with regard to retrieval speed or anything like that).

So I do what I bet most people do: ask a simple question, then a slightly harder one, then a slightly harder one, and then one or two that even I might be a bit uncomfortable answering in the heat of an interview, and see where the candidate breaks. Pretty much like determing what speed a CPU gets marked as off the line!

I also like to throw one or two sort of trick questions in the mix, just to see if they're actually paying attention and can think on their feet a little.

I even tend to throw one of those out first because a reasonable candidate will notice it's a trick question, give the right answer a little sheepishly because they aren't sure it's a trick question or not, then I can joke about it and loosen them up a bit, at which point you can more accurately assess them because they aren't getting clobbered by their own nerves after that.

Anyway, I started one candidate out with this question:

"Where does server-side Javascript run?"

And no, that's not a typo... Netscape used to have a server-side Javascript implementation, and we actually had one app that used it.

Anyway, the guy fumbles for a few moments, then finally says "I don't know".

Ok, fine, I like someone that can simply say I don't know in an interview, I actually prefer that to trying to BS me. Maybe he just got fooled by the trick question I figured. I wouldn't hold that against him *that* much, not as the first question, so I gave him the chance to recover cleanly.

"Really? You don't know where **SERVER**-side Javascript executes?"

And I emphasized "server" about as much as human vocal capabilities allow for. His reply?

"Nope, I have not idea where SERVER-side Javascript executes".

And the emphasis was there when he said it, so he clearly heard what I said, and he WASN'T being sarcastic, which would have been good in my opinion! Ok, I'm trying not to laugh at this point, so I pressed on:

"Can you maybe reason out where SERVER-SIDE JAVASCRIPT might execute?"

Again, very strong emphasize as I said it. But still, I get:

"Nope, sorry, I can't figure it out".

I'm not kidding, this actually happened, and this is about as verbatim as it gets, I remember it like it was yesterday.

Needless to say, I asked a few more questions, just silly ones not on my list that I made up at that point, just because I was having fun with him at that point. I don't remember many of the specific questions after that, but it was stuff like "The primary sections of an HTML document are the head and the ___"? "What's the difference between the java command and the javac command?" (he was interviewing as a primarily Java-based web developer by the way). "Is HTTP stateful or stateless?"

He couldn't answer any of them satisfactorily, but I didn't expect him to after that first one! I almost wish we had hired him anyway, I get the feeling our days would have been filled with laughter from that point on!

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:12 • by cconroy
Definitely regional differences. I'm from New Jersey, and around here "bear in woods" is distinguishable from "barren woods". I also pronounce "cot" and "caught" differently.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:22 • by FredSaw
148547 in reply to 148538
vertagano:
I'm guessing that this is a difference very similar to that of the vowels in "cot" and "caught" (which are --to me -- indistinguishible sounds, but I understand that many speakers, especially from England or even parts of New England, maintain a clear distinction).
You can hear this in the USA between north and south as well. Armour used to have a TV commercial with a guy singing, "Hot dahgs... Armor hot dahgs...". The first time I heard it I asked my sister, "What's a hot dahg?" Here in Texas it's pronounced "dawg".
KattMan:
I think this really is kinda of the final word here. There is no wrong pronunciation, but rather regional dialects.
I called it pedantry before, and that it is. But pedantry is a favorite linguistic pastime of mine, and therefore: no, you're wrong; there is no "char" pronounced as spelled. There is only "char" pronounced "care". Any variation is merely tolerated for the sake of getting beyond the pedantic and on to the sharing of vision.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:26 • by Khazwossname (unregistered)
148549 in reply to 148545
Frank W. Zammetti:

"Where does server-side Javascript run?"

Anyway, the guy fumbles for a few moments, then finally says "I don't know".

"Really? You don't know where **SERVER**-side Javascript executes?"

And I emphasized "server" about as much as human vocal capabilities allow for. His reply?

"Nope, I have not idea where SERVER-side Javascript executes".

"Can you maybe reason out where SERVER-SIDE JAVASCRIPT might execute?"

"Nope, sorry, I can't figure it out".


If I'd encountered this question I probably would have answered much the same way - because it sounds like you're asking about something like the directory in which the app resides. "On the server" seems like it can't possibly be the answer because it's in the question and emphasized heavily.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:35 • by curly e (unregistered)
We had a guy who was an extremely good programmer, but was also too willing to help others. Another guy, who was not very good at all, was looking for a new employer. Weak guy had a phone interview, and got smart guy to sit with him. Each question he restated ("so, you're asking me what a static class is"), then smart guy would jot down an answer, which weak guy would read. Weak guy was good enough to make coherent sentences of it all and pronounce things right. He got the job.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:41 • by EvanED
148553 in reply to 148546
cconroy:
Definitely regional differences. I'm from New Jersey, and around here "bear in woods" is distinguishable from "barren woods". I also pronounce "cot" and "caught" differently.


Interesting, I grew up in central PA, and both of those are more or less the same pronunciation for me. "bear in woods"/"barren woods" of course has slightly different timing, but that's the biggest difference. There's a slight pronunciation difference between "bear" and "barren" but only very slight, and I'm not sure how do describe it. "Cot" gets a slightly different vowel sound, but again only very slightly. If you were to take a bunch of recordings of me saying "cot" vs. "caught", you would have an extremely difficult time figuring out when I was saying each.

BTW, I totally didn't expect this to turn into such a big discussion.

FredSaw:

KattMan:
I think this really is kinda of the final word here. There is no wrong pronunciation, but rather regional dialects.
I called it pedantry before, and that it is. But pedantry is a favorite linguistic pastime of mine, and therefore: no, you're wrong; there is no "char" pronounced as spelled. There is only "char" pronounced "care". Any variation is merely tolerated for the sake of getting beyond the pedantic and on to the sharing of vision.


What? "No" as in in English, or as an "acceptable" pronunciation of a character variable? If the latter, who made you the arbiter as to how things are pronounced?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:49 • by FredSaw
148554 in reply to 148553
EvanED:
What? "No" as in in English, or as an "acceptable" pronunciation of a character variable?
I'm not sure what you're asking.
EvanED:
If the latter, who made you the arbiter as to how things are pronounced?
It is enough that I am. Remember the words of Master Yoda: "Care, or care not. There is no char."

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:53 • by anon (unregistered)
148556 in reply to 148544
Aaron:
anon:
"Almost like 'care'"; not "like 'care'". In my experience, how someone pronounces "char" is an excellent indicator of how well he codes. Anyone who says char, as in "charred wood" is very likely worthless.

Char is already a word in the English language, therefore it's not necessarily going to follow the normal abbreviation rules, not that the rules are that consistent anyway. By your logic, "laser" would be pronounced "lasser", or even "lassear" (last year?) depending on dialect.

I think I'd break into giggles if I ever heard someone talking about a "vair-care" field. Sounds like a tongue-tied "care bear". Or maybe they meant to say hair care.


"Laser" is an acronym, and "char" is an abbreviation, so there is no extension of "[my] logic" regarding pronunciation from one to the other. That is the sort of sloppy thinking I expect from someone who mispronounces char.
If you ever hear someone say "vair-care", you should quit giggling and listen, as you have much to learn.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 15:53 • by akatherder
148557 in reply to 148551
curly e:
Each question he restated ("so, you're asking me what a static class is"), then smart guy would jot down an answer, which weak guy would read.


Were there names Goofus and Google?

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:00 • by unklegwar
148558 in reply to 148381
Anonymous:
I've heard this story before from someone I work with except that the person on the other end was an engineer from the Indian outsourcing firm they were going to hire.

This is either an urban legend or it is a fairly common occurrence.


There HAS been a lot of dodgy, iffy, recycled content on here lately. Stories I read in one place, suddenly wind up here. Such as that one about "I turned the A/C off to be environmentally responsible" one. The details change just a bit.

TDWTF has jumped the shark. Many stories don't even meet the new definition of worse than failure, they're just barely interesting anecdotes.

I still read because the screenshots are sometimes funny.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:05 • by DOA
148559 in reply to 148514
Atrophy:
Kind of like the guy who came to install our new network printer, and said we'd have to take our CUPS server out of the mix because "They don't make LIE-NUKS filters for this model."

I waited until he left before putting the CUPS server back in... worked like a charm.


Gotta admit not all printers have those filters... they're like DSL line filters right? stick them on the cat5 cable and the printer works >:)

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:14 • by KattMan
148560 in reply to 148553
EvanED:

FredSaw:

KattMan:
I think this really is kinda of the final word here. There is no wrong pronunciation, but rather regional dialects.
I called it pedantry before, and that it is. But pedantry is a favorite linguistic pastime of mine, and therefore: no, you're wrong; there is no "char" pronounced as spelled. There is only "char" pronounced "care". Any variation is merely tolerated for the sake of getting beyond the pedantic and on to the sharing of vision.


What? "No" as in in English, or as an "acceptable" pronunciation of a character variable? If the latter, who made you the arbiter as to how things are pronounced?


Actually there is a char which means to burn. But do notice he is being intentionally pedantic, and in doing so, appointing himself as arbiter. He then goes on to say that we accept the differences to get "beyond the pedantic and on to the sharing of vision." So with this he is actually in agreement. Who 'chars' how it is actually pronounced, lets move along and talk about tho more important things.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:14 • by DOA
oh, god, three pages of inane comments on spelling?! I gotta say it... that's the real wtf.
Btw kudos to the guys that had stories of their own to share. Only thing that makes the comments worth scanning through.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:17 • by unklegwar
There seem to be a lot of variations on proper resume length. I always understood that the very longest acceptable resume was 2 pages and that's only for someone with a long career.

If you have 6 pages, then you have a problem with focus.

If you have more than 1, and haven't been in a relevant field for more than 8 or 10 years, it's too long.

I'm in for 15 years now, and I have a resume template that has EVERYTHING on it, that's 2 pages. The TRICK is, to take the time to study the position you are applying for and tailor the resume to fit it. It's not dishonest, it's focus. If you know LOGO, and the job doesn't require that, why waste the space and the time? You don't need to include everything you know, only the relevant things.

A decent interview will ask you about things you didn't list, if they are important and reasonably related to the position and other skills you have (you know VB.NET, ever used C#? I see you know XML, how's your XPATH?).

I'm not going to swim through pages and pages of someone's ego to MAYBE find what I need. If it's not on page 1, I don't go to page 2. If page 1 hits a lot of points, then I'll see what else is there as a bonus.

Re: We'll Be In Touch Maybe

2007-08-07 16:21 • by someguy (unregistered)
148564 in reply to 148370
SomeCoder:
SomeCoder:
Hej:
I hope the "C-pound" was a joke, though I didn't get the sense of 'ha ha' afterwards....


It is a joke - see: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/5_years_C-pound_experience.aspx


Good times that one :)


Sorry, let me make that a link: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/5_years_C-pound_experience.aspx


Haha, I was confused by what you meant by the apology considering the first url was a link for me. Gotta love linkification! https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/190
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