All Talk and No Code

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  • stewie 2005-12-06 14:27
    Gaiden outta here!<br>
    <br>
    Aleph you all!<br>
  • WTFer 2005-12-06 14:28
    The funny thing is that the second comment is in fact in English. :)
    But well, I think it was a Quebecois boss just being an assclown. <br>
  • wakeskate 2005-12-06 14:30
    Sure Blame Canada...&nbsp;&nbsp; well I'm a Canadian and I don't think
    that multi-language code be acceptable at any company I've ever worked
    for.&nbsp; Even working in Europe (the Netherlands) we had to stick
    with one language for an entire project (English or Dutch).&nbsp;
    There's nothing that I dislike more than multi-language variable
    names...&nbsp; impossible to read.<br>
    <br>
    Besides, all of the code that I write reads like a book, so comments
    aren't necessary.&nbsp; I use "AlephComments", which are silent *and*
    invisible :)<br>
  • Darax The Good 2005-12-06 14:35
    Are you sure the second submission isn't a very creative ploy by systransoft to get a little free advertising to the geek demographic? :)
  • IngisKahn 2005-12-06 14:36
    <P>
    wakeskate:
    comments aren't necessary
    </P>
    <P>I hope that's a joke. lol</P>
  • WTFer 2005-12-06 14:37
    wakeskate:
    Sure Blame Canada...&nbsp;&nbsp; well I'm a Canadian and I don't think
    that multi-language code be acceptable at any company I've ever worked
    for.&nbsp; Even working in Europe (the Netherlands) we had to stick
    with one language for an entire project (English or Dutch).&nbsp;
    There's nothing that I dislike more than multi-language variable
    names...&nbsp; impossible to read.<br>
    <br>
    Besides, all of the code that I write reads like a book, so comments
    aren't necessary.&nbsp; I use "AlephComments", which are silent *and*
    invisible :)<br>
    <br>
    I am Mexican and I keep my variables in English and my comments in
    Spanish. The languages (C#, Java, etc)&nbsp; and base classes and
    libraries are always in English so I keep the code in English make it
    cleaner and make it easier to post and make sense if you need help. But
    that's just me. <br>
  • HAK 2005-12-06 14:49
    Alex Papadimoulis:
    <p>Since I'm on the subject of
    comments, I may as well share this comment that another anonymous coder
    sent in. I suppose you Canadians may be used to this, it was just a bit
    of place in Atlanta, Georgia ... </p><p>
    </p><blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr"><pre><font color="#006600">/*\<br> * This source-code is to only be used by Initech developers. So that someone<br> * may navigate through this source code, here is the convention used:<br> * - All variable and function names are in English (for the most part), so that<br> * it will be clear for programmers; the names speak for themselves.<br> * - Comments throughout the code are usually written in French. If you don't <br> * speak French, and cannot find us to ask what a comment means, you can use <br> * a grammatical translator online, like http://www.systransoft.com<br>\*/</font></pre></blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    At least they specified the other language and provided a site for
    translation.&nbsp; They could have just left the coders guessing, and
    therefore making a bigger WTF.<br>
  • damne33 2005-12-06 14:55
    I code in C, but I write my comments in Java.
  • pjabbott 2005-12-06 14:57
    That first comment sounds like it was generated using The Commentator with verbosity=10, self-importance=10.<br><br>http://www.cenqua.com/commentator/ (I'm sure it's been linked from here before).<br>
  • Xargon 2005-12-06 15:05
    So, during my childhood the Nintendo game I was playing was really
    called "Ninja side story"?&nbsp; I'm glad I woke up this morning just
    to learn that.<br>
  • Brendan Kidwell 2005-12-06 15:07
    Alex Papadimoulis:
    <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"><pre><font color="#006600">/// The GaidenCommand is a specialized Command for use by the
    /// CommandManager.
    </font></pre></blockquote>
    <br><br>That's what happens when a programmer is told to "document your code now that you're done" and given no other interesting things to do.<br><br>If I can't figure out that a GaidenCommand is some kind of metacommand, from context, then I <span style="font-style: italic;">really</span> don't want to be reading this code.<br><br>
  • VGR 2005-12-06 15:11
    Clearly, there are people who don't understand that comments are not
    for the author, they're for the people who come along later.&nbsp; If
    there isn't a 100% likelihood that future maintainers will know French,
    then you have no business commenting in French!<br>
    <br>
    Of course, as soon as I saw "the names speak for themselves" I'd run
    away.&nbsp; Yes, self-documenting code is a good idea.&nbsp; No, it is
    not enough.<br>
    <br>
    Same goes for "find us to ask what a comment means."&nbsp; I've worked
    in those conditions, and it's a farce.&nbsp; Expecting a maintainer to
    stop every five minutes and hunt down the original author for questions
    is unacceptable.&nbsp; The manager might as well make a bonfire out of
    money.<br>
    <br>
    I wonder if it's possible to give the original author a taste of his
    own medicine by sending him encrypted e-mail without any keys, prefaced
    with the unencrypted statement "See me if you want to know what this
    says."<br>
    <br>
    It's WTFs like this that have led me to insist on seeing a sample of the project's javadoc before I accept a job.<br>
    <br>
  • Anonymoose 2005-12-06 15:15
    To ensure proper internationalization and localization of comments, always be sure to store your comments in a string table.<br>
    <br>
    (Kidding! Ha ha!&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh never mind.)<br>
  • rbriem 2005-12-06 15:19
    <P>
    VGR:
    Clearly, there are people who don't understand that comments are not for the author, they're for the people who come along later.&nbsp; If there isn't a 100% likelihood that future maintainers will know French, then you have no business commenting in French!<BR><BR>
    </P>
    <P>Hear, hear! </P>
    <P>And if there isn't a 100% likelihood that future maintainers will know English, then you have no business commenting in English! (Feel free to substitute your language of choice).</P>
    <P>But&nbsp;what the hell is "100% likelihood", anyway? "Absolutely probably"?</P>
  • java.lang.NullReferenceException 2005-12-06 15:34
    wakeskate:
    Sure Blame Canada...&nbsp;&nbsp; well I'm a Canadian and I don't think
    that multi-language code be acceptable at any company I've ever worked
    for.&nbsp; Even working in Europe (the Netherlands) we had to stick
    with one language for an entire project (English or Dutch).&nbsp;
    There's nothing that I dislike more than multi-language variable
    names...&nbsp; impossible to read.<br>
    <br>
    Besides, all of the code that I write reads like a book, so comments
    aren't necessary.&nbsp; I use "AlephComments", which are silent *and*
    invisible :)<br>
    <br>I like comments, but they are not really part of the code, more written as an aside, so I generally prefer GaidenComments. Taste is personal.<br><br>On a more serious note -- while I realize that you are being sarcastic, there is some truth hidden in your statement. If you find yourself drawn to writing a huge and complicated comment to explain a point about your code (say, your weird idea of naming a class using an obscure language), then you're probably on the wrong track. Go fix the code instead.<br><br>What really gets me about the anglo-saxon code comment is the fact that it tells me nothing whatsoever. By reading the code, I would be able to spot pretty quickly that that most of the variables are named in English and that all comments (except the one shown here) are in French. WTF...<br>
  • MikeB 2005-12-06 15:36
    <PRE>/// The Nessie Variable is the ultimate storage container
    /// for truth....

    /// Last week Japanese scientists ex-placed...
    /// placed explosive detonators at the bottom of Lake Lochness
    /// to blow Nessie out of the water. Sir Cord Godfried of the
    /// Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards
    /// to cast a protective spell over the lake and its local residents.
    /// And all those who seek for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
    </PRE>
    <P>If Nessie IsTrue() Then..... [&lt;:o)]</P>
  • DisturbedSaint 2005-12-06 15:42
    MikeB:
    <pre>/// The Nessie Variable is the ultimate storage container
    /// for truth....

    /// Last week Japanese scientists ex-placed...
    /// placed explosive detonators at the bottom of Lake Lochness
    /// to blow Nessie out of the water. Sir Cord Godfried of the
    /// Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards
    /// to cast a protective spell over the lake and its local residents.
    /// And all those who seek for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
    </pre>
    <p>If Nessie IsTrue() Then..... [&lt;:o)]</p>
    <br>dude, you like that movie *way* too much...<br><br>-ds<br>
  • JohnSmallberries 2005-12-06 16:02
    VGR:
    The manager might as well make a bonfire out of
    money.
    <br>I'm sure that each of us would run out of fingers (and toes) if we tried to count the number of times we've seen where this is the case.&nbsp; I know I would.<br><br>
  • parasyte 2005-12-06 16:10
    Xargon:
    So, during my childhood the Nintendo game I was playing was really
    called "Ninja side story"?  I'm glad I woke up this morning just
    to learn that.<br>


    What's really amusing is that the Japanese version was called ?????, or Ninja Ryukenden - "Legend of the Dragon Sword Ninja."
    Why they changed the name is beyond me, they exchanged one Japanese phrase for another and both are meaningless to most foreigners.
  • GoatCheez 2005-12-06 16:19
    &lt;rant&gt;man.... wtf... d00d spends more time in his comments on the origin of the work Gaiden and Aleph than he does saying anything else... like anyone cares where he got the word from. Sure, it might help cuz variables should get named what they are... but that only works if people know what the words are. if you have to tell people what the word means, then you shouldn't name any variables by it. i mean cmon people... as for the language... being developer support, i get very many questions, in very many different languages... most of the time, the code is in english, and the comments are in their native language. This is fine. the comments i could really care less about, as long as the code is in english. If the syntax of a language uses english words, then use english ppl... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Oh yeah, if you don't know english, then don't use single letter vars... use your native language... cuz even though I hate seeing variables named words that I could never even take a guess to the meaning of, it's better than a variable named "v".(at least if i need to i could probably run the variable name through a translator)&lt;/rant&gt;<br>
  • OneFactor 2005-12-06 16:21
    <P>
    parasyte:
    Xargon:
    So, during my childhood the Nintendo game I was playing was really called "Ninja side story"?&nbsp; I'm glad I woke up this morning just to learn that.<BR>
    What's really amusing is that the Japanese version was called ?????, or Ninja Ryukenden - "Legend of the Dragon Sword Ninja." Why they changed the name is beyond me, they exchanged one Japanese phrase for another and both are meaningless to most foreigners.
    </P>
    <P>The machines I played on called it Ninja USA. Never could figure out why the end boss was so much easier to beat than his three poison-claw henchmen before him though. Maybe he had spent the last 20 years building up an immunity to Iocaine poison...</P>
    <P>That game required such precise timing though. I remember practicing until I could get to the end with one quarter but if I stopped playing for a few months I could not even get past level one.</P>
  • paranoidgeek 2005-12-06 16:21
    pjabbott:
    That first comment sounds like it was generated using The Commentator with verbosity=10, self-importance=10.<br><br>http://www.cenqua.com/commentator/ (I'm sure it's been linked from here before).<br>
    Pity it is just a joke :( . I was looking forward to running that on some of my code. Or maybe run it on /usr/src/linux and send the patch through to Linus ...<br>
  • Manni 2005-12-06 16:22
    <P>Ha ha brillant! IsTrue() shoulda done that in JavaScript they were paid per line of code Hungarian notation MS Paint expertise C-pound</P>
    <P>Now that I just used them all, this post will never make it past 40 replies! Eat it suckers! Muahahaha!!</P>
  • Maz 2005-12-06 16:25
    rbriem:

    <P>But&nbsp;what the hell is "100% likelihood", anyway? "Absolutely probably"?</P>
    <P>
    </P>
    <P>Something along the lines of 100% probability.</P>
  • mrsticks1982 2005-12-06 16:35
    bi-lingual code ... I love it<br><br>Keep the diversity strong<br><br><br><br>
  • Xepol 2005-12-06 16:41
    Alex Papadimoulis:

    <P><FONT color=#006600>&nbsp;Also "CommandManagerCommand" is far too long to write.</FONT>
    <P>

    <P>And we have all noticed how much he hates to type!
    <P>As for the second comment, without a cultural background watching Quebec's language laws with their, HONEST TO GODS, I KID&nbsp; YOU NOT - LANGUAGE POLICE (actual division of the quebec legal system punishing those who do not follow quebec's anti-english language laws) you might not appreciate the need for a disclaimer like this.&nbsp; Frankly, I am surprised that some in the governemt has not yet drafted an addendum that requires that all languages be translated into french,&nbsp;require the all identifiers be in french&nbsp;and that all english comments may only be 40% as significant as the french comments.
    <P>Think I'm nutz?&nbsp; Google "quebec language laws".&nbsp; And here you thought your neighbours to the north were just wussier toned down versions of americans.&nbsp; Not if you live south of Quebec.&nbsp;
    <P>So ya, if it was written in Quebec, I am amazed that there was even THAT much english in the code.</P>
  • Paul Abraham 2005-12-06 16:43
    As a native English speaker myself (from the place that has given its
    name to the language, no less), I always feel sorry for non-English
    speakers who are forced to program in English.&nbsp; Perhaps it's time
    to redress the balance.<br>
    <br>
    French example:<br>
    <br>
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">si(condition)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // quelquechose</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">ousi(condition2)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // encore quelquechose</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">fin</span><br>
    <br>
    German example:<br>
    <br>
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">wenn(condition)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">oderwenn(condition2)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // noch etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">Ende</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <br>
    I'm sure our French and German friends could do better.<br>
    <br>
  • VGR 2005-12-06 16:45
    rbriem:

    <p>
    VGR:
    Clearly, there are people who
    don't understand that comments are not for the author, they're for the
    people who come along later.&nbsp; If there isn't a 100% likelihood
    that future maintainers will know French, then you have no business
    commenting in French!<br><br>
    </p>

    <p>Hear, hear! </p>

    <p>And if there isn't a 100% likelihood that future maintainers will
    know English, then you have no business commenting in English! (Feel
    free to substitute your language of choice).</p>

    <p>But&nbsp;what the hell is "100% likelihood", anyway? "Absolutely probably"?</p>
    <br>

    <br>
    You're absolutely right.<br>

    <br>

    If I'm writing software that's going to a company in Europe (but not
    the UK), then it is my responsibility to make sure the comments are in
    a language their maintainers can understand.<br>

    <br>

    I suppose "reasonable expectation" should be substituted for "100%
    likelihood."&nbsp; And I think it's reasonable to expect that not every
    Georgian will understand French comments.<br>

    <br>

    At the very least, I would have sent the code back with a message
    like:&nbsp; "Since you chose to write in French, I hereby place on you
    the burden of translating the comments for us.&nbsp; It's your doing,
    so it should eat into your time, not ours."<br>

    <br>

    Comments are meant to save development time, not increase it.<br>

    <br>

    Of course, if the whole codebase was inherited as the result of buying
    up a French company, then this seems like an inevitable risk.&nbsp; But
    it sure appears the author knew non-French-speakers would be looking at
    it.
  • Xepol 2005-12-06 16:47
    <P>In fact, if the quebec language police ever find out that some languages have a pre-processor, they will likely require that all french companies use government mandated include files and program ENTIRELY in french.&nbsp; Could you imagine entire system libraries translated through &lt;#define&gt;s?</P>
    <P>Frankly, I could almost find the concept amusing enough to send an anonymous email to the quebec governement complaining about how english identifiers in programming languages undermine the french distinticiveness and how said pre-processors could fix the problem.</P>
    <P>The economic damage would be amazing, and would not cause the quebec government to hesitate for a second before passing new laws to cover it.</P>
    <P>Let's make that evil plot #31.</P>
  • Gene Wirchenko 2005-12-06 16:54
    pjabbott:
    That first comment sounds like it was generated using The Commentator with verbosity=10, self-importance=10.<br><br>http://www.cenqua.com/commentator/ (I'm sure it's been linked from here before).
    <br><br>How inconsiderate of you to not post the page.&nbsp; Look, I am B-U-S-Y.&nbsp; I do not have time to surf to that page!<br><br>(Actually, I did go, and it is a hoot.&nbsp; Thank you.)<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>Gene Wirchenko<br><br>
  • kipthegreat 2005-12-06 16:58
    Alex Papadimoulis:
    <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"><pre><font color="#006600"> * - Comments throughout the code are usually written in French. If you don't
    * speak French, and cannot find us to ask what a comment means, you can use
    * a grammatical translator online, like http://www.systransoft.com</font></pre></blockquote>
    <br><br>I can identify with this.&nbsp; I work for a French-owned company, and much of our code was originally developed in France and has lots of French comments.&nbsp; Which makes it really annoying to maintain here in the US.<br><br>On the other hand, I am actually picking up a little French (very slowly) just from maintaining the code.&nbsp; But don't tell the French people that.&nbsp; They'll think they're justified.<br>
  • masklinn 2005-12-06 17:06
    Paul Abraham:
    As a native English speaker myself (from the place that has given its
    name to the language, no less), I always feel sorry for non-English
    speakers who are forced to program in English.&nbsp;

    <p>I'm not, fuck'em all.</p>
    <p>And I say that being french and living in france...</p>
    <p>Code localization should die, plain and simple. Standard libs are in english anyway, and it's a frigging pain switching to an english mindset (because you're coding and reading the docs and using the standard api) to a french mindset just because your stupid coworker doesn't want to use english in his code.</p>
    <p>Now if you *really* want code localization, there is an (ugly) french (heap of dung) L5G/IDE called Windev (do not use it, seriously... wouldn't come to your mind anyway since you're not french but I still warn you) that allows you to code either in french or in english (and that can switch between both).</p>
  • masklinn 2005-12-06 17:07
    masklinn:
    Paul Abraham:
    As a native English speaker myself (from the place that has given its
    name to the language, no less), I always feel sorry for non-English
    speakers who are forced to program in English.&nbsp;

    <p>I'm not, fuck'em all.</p>
    <p>And I say that being french and living in france...</p>
    <p>Code localization should die, plain and simple. Standard libs are in english anyway, and it's a frigging pain switching to an english mindset (because you're coding and reading the docs and using the standard api) to a french mindset just because your stupid coworker doesn't want to use english in his code.</p>
    <p>Now if you *really* want code localization, there is an (ugly) french (heap of dung) L5G/IDE called Windev (do not use it, seriously... wouldn't come to your mind anyway since you're not french but I still warn you) that allows you to code either in french or in english (and that can switch between both).</p>

    s/to an english/from an english/
  • Cirdan 2005-12-06 17:33
    Xepol:
    Frankly, I could almost find the concept amusing
    enough to send an anonymous email to the quebec governement complaining
    about how english identifiers in programming languages undermine the
    french distinticiveness and how said pre-processors could fix the
    problem.
    <p>The economic damage would be amazing, and would not cause the quebec
    government to hesitate for a second before passing new laws to cover it.
    <br>
    With the email headers translated into French I don't think there's much risk of your mail getting to its intended destination.<br>
    </p>
  • triso 2005-12-06 17:41
    wakeskate:
    ...Besides, all of the code that I write reads like a book, so comments
    aren't necessary.&nbsp; I use "AlephComments", which are silent *and*
    invisible :)<br>
    But the most important question is:&nbsp; Do they smell??<br>
  • triso 2005-12-06 18:15
    masklinn:
    ...Now if you *really* want code localization,
    there is an (ugly) french (heap of dung) L5G/IDE called Windev (do not
    use it, seriously... wouldn't come to your mind anyway since you're not
    french but I still warn you) that allows you to code either in french
    or in english (and that can switch between both).
    <br>
    Goodness me!&nbsp; That sounds like something the Quebec government
    would love to invest billions into...and then billions more changing it
    so it is French only.&nbsp;&nbsp; English is for those heathens in the
    rest of Canada, anyway.<br>
    <br>
  • ammoQ 2005-12-06 18:25
    Paul Abraham:
    <span style="font-family: courier new;"></span><br>
    <br>
    German example:<br>
    <br>
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">wenn(condition)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">oderwenn(condition2)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // noch etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">Ende</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <br>
    I'm sure our French and German friends could do better.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Well done, but honestly, I'm quite happy that all keywords are English;
    that makes it easier to keep domain specific words and programming
    keywords apart.<br>
    For example, "client" can mean two totally different things: In the
    domain of the application, "client" is the one who places an order. In
    the computer domain, client is a program or device that connects to a
    server. To distinguish this two meanings, I use German words ("Kunde")
    for domain specific meanings and English words ("Client") for computer
    related meanings.<br>
  • HAK 2005-12-06 18:49
    It could just be job security .....<br>
    <br>
    Dev: "You can't fire me! I'm the only one who understands [some essential-yet-badly-written/commented project]!"<br>
    Boss: "F***, you're right.&nbsp; And you can have a raise after we fire Johnson."<br>
  • AlfAlf 2005-12-06 19:00
    <i>
    Sure Blame Canada...&nbsp;&nbsp; well I'm a Canadian and I don't think
    that multi-language code be acceptable at any company I've ever worked
    for.&nbsp; Even working in Europe (the Netherlands) we had to stick
    with one language for an entire project (English or Dutch).&nbsp;
    There's nothing that I dislike more than multi-language variable
    names...&nbsp; impossible to read.<br>
    <br>
    Besides, all of the code that I write reads like a book, so comments
    aren't necessary.&nbsp; I use "AlephComments", which are silent *and*
    invisible :)<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span></span><span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"></span><span style="font-style: italic;" id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></i>

    Well, it may come as a surprise to you that not all french canadians are able to write properly sentenced comments in english. Where i work, comments used to be made in english (as is everything in the code) but after having comments that we're so badly written that they were more confusing than anything else, we opted to have all comments written in french.

    I agree that in a perfect world, i should be all written in the same language, but in the real world, that is not always possible.

    I see no WTF in this, i live it everyday. Sadly, i live in the real world.
  • emptyset 2005-12-06 19:11
    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>i think this is the funniest daily wtf i've ever seen.</FONT>
  • foxyshadis 2005-12-06 19:26
    Cirdan:
    Xepol:
    Frankly, I could almost find the concept amusing
    enough to send an anonymous email to the quebec governement complaining
    about how english identifiers in programming languages undermine the
    french distinticiveness and how said pre-processors could fix the
    problem.
    <p>The economic damage would be amazing, and would not cause the quebec
    government to hesitate for a second before passing new laws to cover it.
    <br>
    With the email headers translated into French I don't think there's much risk of your mail getting to its intended destination.<br>
    </p>
    <br>Fortunately email and FTP would be largely unaffected, given the decidedly non-english nature of most of their 4-letter command words and how few mail relays actually care about anything else.<br><br>HTTP, on the other hand, may be in for a bit of a shock.<br>
  • Xepol 2005-12-06 21:41
    foxyshadis:
    Cirdan:
    Xepol:
    Frankly, I could almost find the concept amusing enough to send an anonymous email to the quebec governement complaining about how english identifiers in programming languages undermine the french distinticiveness and how said pre-processors could fix the problem.
    <P>The economic damage would be amazing, and would not cause the quebec government to hesitate for a second before passing new laws to cover it.
    <BR>With the email headers translated into French I don't think there's much risk of your mail getting to its intended destination.<BR></P>
    <P>
    <BR>Fortunately email and FTP would be largely unaffected, given the decidedly non-english nature of most of their 4-letter command words and how few mail relays actually care about anything else.<BR><BR>HTTP, on the other hand, may be in for a bit of a shock.<BR>
    </P>
    <P>You all think I am joking about Quebec's language laws and wanna run with it.&nbsp; Sadly, the truth is stranger than fiction ever could be: "</P>
    <P><FONT size=2>MONTREAL - </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2>A couple selling maple syrup over the Internet has been fined for operating an English-only Web site in Quebec.
    <P>Muriel and Stanley Reid were cited for violating Quebec's language law, Bill 101."<BR><BR><A href="http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/05/21/internet010521">http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/05/21/internet010521</A><BR><BR>If the Quebec government ever took it seriously into mind, yes, the could very well pass laws that would be disruptive enough to require french based protocols only.</P>
    <P>Even the WTFs we see daily pale beside the delibertate dementia of the Quebec's crusade for "purity".&nbsp; I only bring them up because they could be combine with programming to create some of the greatest programming WTFs of all times, HONESTLY.</P></FONT>
  • SysRq2000 2005-12-07 03:15
    <P>Heres some danish C-pound code:</P>
    <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>hvis</FONT>(ErSand(<FONT color=#0000ff>sand</FONT>))<BR>{<BR>&nbsp; <FONT color=#0000ff>retuner</FONT> <FONT color=#0000ff>sand</FONT>;<BR>}<BR><FONT color=#0000ff>ellers</FONT><BR>{<BR>&nbsp; <FONT color=#0000ff>retuner</FONT> <FONT color=#0000ff>falsk</FONT>;<BR>}</FONT></P>
    <P>Brillant!</P>
  • java.lang.NullReferenceException 2005-12-07 03:46
    SysRq2000:
    <p>Heres some danish C-pound code:</p>
    <p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><font color="#0000ff">hvis</font>(ErSand(<font color="#0000ff">sand</font>))<br>{<br>&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">sand</font>;<br>}<br><font color="#0000ff">ellers</font><br>{<br>&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">falsk</font>;<br>}</font></p>
    <p>Brillant!</p>
    <br><font face="Courier New" size="2">C:\Kode&gt;kompiler kode.cs<br><br>&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">sand</font>;</font><br>
    <font face="Courier New" size="2">&nbsp; ^^^^^^^ F01123: Syntaksfejl. Ukendt identifikator.</font><br>
    <br><font face="Courier New" size="2">&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">falsk</font>;<br></font><font face="Courier New" size="2">&nbsp; ^^^^^^^ F01123: Syntaksfejl. Ukendt identifikator.</font><br>

    <br><font face="Courier New" size="2">C:\Kode&gt;_<br><br></font>Does D-flat have macros like good old C/C++?<font face="Courier New" size="2"><br><br>// got_danish.hpp<br>#define afbryd break<br>#define tilfaelde case<br>#define fang catch<br>#define karakter char<br>#define klasse class<br>#define konstant const<br>#define fortsaet continue<br>#define standard default<br>#define slet delete<br>#define goer do<br>#define dobbelt double<br>#define ellers else<br>#define oplist enum<br>#define ekstern extern<br>#define flydende float<br>#define ven friend<br>#define gaatil goto<br>#define hvis if<br>#define ilinie inline<br>#define heltal int<br>#define lang long<br>#define ny new<br>#define privat private<br>#define beskyttet protected<br>#define offentlig public<br>#define returner return<br>#define kort short<br>#define medfortegn signed<br>#define stoerrelse sizeof<br>#define statisk static<br>#define struktur struct<br>#define skift switch<br>#define skabelon template<br>#define denne this<br>#define kast throw<br>#define proev try<br>#define forening union<br>#define positiv unsigned<br>#define virtuel virtual<br>#define ingenting void<br>#define volatibel volatile<br>#define saalaenge while<br><br></font>
  • bullestock 2005-12-07 03:54
    SysRq2000:
    <p>Heres some danish C-pound code:</p>
    <p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><font color="#0000ff">hvis</font>(ErSand(<font color="#0000ff">sand</font>))<br>{<br>&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">sand</font>;<br>}<br><font color="#0000ff">ellers</font><br>{<br>&nbsp; <font color="#0000ff">retuner</font> <font color="#0000ff">falsk</font>;<br>}</font></p>
    <p>Brillant!</p>
    <br>
    <br>
    You misspelled "returner".<br>
  • Jens 2005-12-07 04:22
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use &oslash; &aelig; and &aring;<br/>
    <br>
    A question regarding comments. <br>
    <br>
    At my current place of employment we are discuraged from putting
    comments in our code in general. The two exceptions to this exist rule,
    is API programming and code which cannot be made self-explanatory and
    therefore deserved commenting. The reason for this being that comment
    are often not updated as the code evolves, thus ending up being
    misleading to the maintenance programming in the end. Obviously this
    approach this approach assumes that an effort is being made to keep the
    implementation as clean. What are our thought on this approach to
    commenting?<br>
    <br>
    Personally i'm very fond of stuff like javadoc commenting. I generally
    like make a javadoc comment block for each and every
    function/class/global/constant in my code, regardless of whether it's
    use is self-explanatory or not.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
  • ishmaeel 2005-12-07 04:31
    <P>About programming language localization:</P>
    <P>I don't think it could be done "pure enough" with simple #def's and keyword translation/substitution. How can we claim that the language we use is in our mother language ([^o)]), if sentence structure is not taken into account? Below is my proposal for the Turkish BASIC. (I did not translate the keywords themselves, only the structure, in order to minimize the obfuscation factor.)</P><PRE>10 SCREEN CLEAR
    20 i = 0 FROM 10 UNTIL 2 STEP 2 STEP INCREMENT
    30 i PRINT
    40 IF i, 10&lt; THEN
    50 "," PRINT
    60 IF END
    70 NEXT i
    80 "Tekrar? (E/H)"; PRINT
    90 a* INPUT
    100 IF (a*)WITH_LOWERCASE, "e"= THEN 10 TO_GO
    </PRE>
    <P>Please note that <STRONG>a*</STRONG> is a string variable. I could not use <STRONG>a$</STRONG> now, using the dollar sign would be against the whole principle. (Come to think of it, I could use <STRONG>aTL</STRONG> -- for Turkish Lira.)</P>
  • trollable 2005-12-07 04:43
    Jens:
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use ø æ and å
    <br>

    <br>

    In Java, you can. But there is no preprocessor to change the keywords.<br>

    The perfect programming language is still to be invented.<br>
    (in my own little one, there is no keyword, just symbols so it is I18N ready)<br>
  • ammoQ 2005-12-07 05:11
    Jens:
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use ø æ and å<br>
    <br><br>In Oracle's PL/SQL the can be used for identifiers, but that's a bad idea.<br><br>
    <br>
    A question regarding comments. <br>
    <br>
    At my current place of employment we are discuraged from putting
    comments in our code in general. The two exceptions to this exist rule,
    is API programming and code which cannot be made self-explanatory and
    therefore deserved commenting. The reason for this being that comment
    are often not updated as the code evolves, thus ending up being
    misleading to the maintenance programming in the end. Obviously this
    approach this approach assumes that an effort is being made to keep the
    implementation as clean. What are our thought on this approach to
    commenting?<br>
    <br>
    Personally i'm very fond of stuff like javadoc commenting. I generally
    like make a javadoc comment block for each and every
    function/class/global/constant in my code, regardless of whether it's
    use is self-explanatory or not.<br>
    <br>
    <br><br>Good comments do not repeat what the code already says, but why something is done. This "why" doesn't need to be updated that often.<br>
  • brazzy 2005-12-07 05:21
    parasyte:
    What's really amusing is that the Japanese
    version was called ?????, or Ninja Ryukenden - "Legend of the Dragon
    Sword Ninja."
    Why they changed the name is beyond me, they exchanged one Japanese
    phrase for another and both are meaningless to most foreigners.
    <br>
    <br>
    Probably in order to make it more pronouncable. <br>
    <br>
    Marketing people just go crazy when it comes to foreign languages. The
    movie name "Couching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" is a literal translation of
    the original Chinese name. In Japan, where people would actually <span style="font-style: italic;">understand </span>the Chinese characters, it was titled in English, "Green Destiny".<br>
    <br>
    And in Germany, where rampant anglicisms are the norm, Hollywood movie
    titles are usually kept unchanged - English is just "cooler". At least
    that has its advantages as you don't have problems identifying the
    movie when talking to Americans or Englishmen. But once in a while,
    they'll "translate" an English title into a DIFFERENT English title!
    For example "Bend it like Beckham" was called "Kick it like Beckham".
    Because while English is automatically "cool" to many, those are
    usually the same people who don't speak it all that well and would be
    confused by non-trivial words and idioms.<br>
    <br>
  • creaothceann 2005-12-07 05:28
    Personally I don't like that (ever seen ASM code with french
    identifiers?), though I don't mind it in smaller programs, eg. in "Var
    Datei : File;"<br>
    And my version of Paul's example would be:<br>
    <br>
    <span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><span style="font-family: courier new;">falls (Bedingung)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // irgendwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">ansonsten (Bedingung2)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // irgendwas anderes</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">ende</span></span>
    <br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><span style="font-family: courier new;"></span>
    </span>
  • brazzy 2005-12-07 05:28
    GoatCheez:
    <rant>If the syntax of a language uses english
    words, then use english ppl... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
    figure that out. Oh yeah, if you don't know english, then don't use
    single letter vars... use your native language... cuz even though I
    hate seeing variables named words that I could never even take a guess
    to the meaning of, it's better than a variable named "v".(at least if i
    need to i could probably run the variable name through a translator)</rant><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Even if you know English very well, it is often not practicable to name
    everything in English. If your specifications are in a different
    language, you do NOT want to translate every domain-specific term so
    that the developer has to know that when the analysts and end users say
    "Schuldverschreibung", he has to look in the code for "debenture".<br>
  • creaothceann 2005-12-07 05:29
    *sigh*
  • raph 2005-12-07 05:45
    <P>However in Perl ...</P>
    <P>See <A href="http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html">http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html</A></P>
  • brazzy 2005-12-07 06:00
    Paul Abraham:
    <br>
    German example:<br>
    <br>
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">wenn(condition)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">oderwenn(condition2)</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // noch etwas</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <span style="font-family: courier new;">Ende</span><br style="font-family: courier new;">
    <br>
    I'm sure our French and German friends could do better.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    I've occasionally seen this syntax for pseudocode. And it is used by spreadsheed applications for the formulas.<br>
  • brazzy 2005-12-07 06:11
    Jens:
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use ø æ and å<br>
    <br>
    A question regarding comments. <br>
    <br>
    At my current place of employment we are discuraged from putting
    comments in our code in general. The two exceptions to this exist rule,
    is API programming and code which cannot be made self-explanatory and
    therefore deserved commenting. The reason for this being that comment
    are often not updated as the code evolves, thus ending up being
    misleading to the maintenance programming in the end. Obviously this
    approach this approach assumes that an effort is being made to keep the
    implementation as clean. What are our thought on this approach to
    commenting?
    <br>
    <br>
    I generally think that comments are often over- and misused and then
    more hindrance than help, but discouraging comments in general is going
    a bit too far. Then again, if the exception "code that cannot be made
    self-explanatory" is interpreted right, it probably covers everything
    where comments are actually useful.<br>
    <br>
    On second thought, I like this policy!<br>
    <br>
    Jens:
    Personally i'm very fond of stuff like javadoc commenting. I generally
    like make a javadoc comment block for each and every
    function/class/global/constant in my code, regardless of whether it's
    use is self-explanatory or not.
    <br>
    <br>
    I HATE comments that repeat things that are obvious. They are not only
    useless, they actually decrease code clarity by distracting from the
    code and taking up space. And the worst thing is that the same people
    who comment <br>
    <br>
    index++; // increase index by one<br>
    <br>
    are very often those who totally fail to comment stuff that is
    non-obvious and non-local, such as what a class or method is actually <span style="font-style: italic;">used for </span>and what its name <span style="font-style: italic;">means.</span><br>
    <br>
    Comments exist to help other people understand your code. NOT to give
    you a warm, fuzzy feeling about being a good little programmer with a
    high comment/code ratio.<br>
  • Jens 2005-12-07 08:41
    brazzy:
    <br>
    I HATE comments that repeat things that are obvious. They are not only
    useless, they actually decrease code clarity by distracting from the
    code and taking up space. And the worst thing is that the same people
    who comment <br>
    <br>
    index++; // increase index by one<br>
    <br>
    are very often those who totally fail to comment stuff that is
    non-obvious and non-local, such as what a class or method is actually <span style="font-style: italic;">used for </span>and what its name <span style="font-style: italic;">means.<br>
    </span>
    <br>
    <br>
    Well I certainly agree with that.&nbsp; When I said that i like to
    comment stuff even though they might be self-explanatory i mean that I
    like insert comment explaining the use/interface of<br>
    every <span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply">function, class, global, constant, even though it's purpose might be fairly obvious, E.g. <br>
    (note, this from a <br>
    <br>
    /*<br>
    *&nbsp;&nbsp; @global array an associative array runtime configuration parameters are stored. <br>
    */<br>
    $Configuration = array()<br>
    </span><br>
    brazzy:
    <br>
    Comments exist to help other people understand your code. NOT to give
    you a warm, fuzzy feeling about being a good little programmer with a
    high comment/code ratio.<br>
    <br>
    Damn, 'cause it's that feelin' o'rigeousness that keeps me dilligently commenting. ;-)<br>
  • kidd1270 2005-12-07 08:49
    // No comment.
  • fmr 2005-12-07 09:49
    <span style="font-style: italic;" id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply">That sounds like something the Quebec government
    would love to invest billions into<br>
    <br>
    </span><span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply">Yeah, but only as long as they
    are part of Canada, in order to prove Ottawa wastes billions sending
    money to Quebec to finance such a law. If they separate, it's another
    story...</span>
  • Dorfl 2005-12-07 09:54
    Aleph is about as silent as K is - sometimes, sure, but generally it isn't. I wonder if his Japanese is as bad (but not enough to actually go check it on Wikipedia).

    (Actually, aleph would never be silent at the beginning of a word, but you know what I meant.)
  • hank miller 2005-12-07 10:30
    I like comments like this.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
    <br>
    They are correct, and let me know what the mindset of the developer
    was.&nbsp;&nbsp; They are mostly useless, but it doesn't take long to
    read them.&nbsp;&nbsp; In the back of my mind I can retain the
    knowledge of what 'gaiden' is, and thus every time I see that function
    from then on, I know what it is doing.<br>
    <br>
    The second is useful - it identifies something I don't know - what
    language to translate comments from.&nbsp; Without it I'd might try a
    Catalin-&gt;English translator first.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I have a soft spot
    in my heart for the beautiful areas where Catalin is spoken, even though
    I don't speak it myself, so I'd try that language first when I see a
    Latin alphabet with a language I don't recognize.)<br>
    <br>
    Where comments are not needed there should be no comments.&nbsp; Where
    comments are needed there should be comments.&nbsp;&nbsp; These
    comments are needed - the first explains a strange choice of names,
    while the second tells me how to deal with the rest of the code.<br>
    <br>
    Though I would agree with anyone who notes that both comments would be
    unneeded if the rest of the code was done better in the first
    place.&nbsp;&nbsp; But given the typical code out there, comments like
    this are important.<br>
  • GoatCheez 2005-12-07 11:09
    System.String TextToOutput = "";<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;if (CommentsNeeded)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;{<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;TextToOutput += "Please Add Comments!";<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;while (CommentsNeeded)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;{<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;foreach (string LineOfCode in EntireCodebase)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;{<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;TextToOutput += "\n";<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;TextToOutput += ExplainWhy(LineOfCode);<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;}<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;}<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;} <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;else <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;{<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;TextToOutput += "DO NOT ADD COMMENTS!";<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;}<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;System.Console.Write(TextToOutput);
  • GoatCheez 2005-12-07 11:10
    eh, I didn't debug my pseudo code <br>
  • RevMike 2005-12-07 12:14
    ammoQ:
    Jens:
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use ø æ and å<br>
    <br><br>In Oracle's PL/SQL the can be used for identifiers, but that's a bad idea.<br>
    <br>Just to clarify... Is it a bad idea to use those identifiers, or is PL/SQL just a bad idea in and of itself?<br>
    <br><br>
    <br>
    A question regarding comments. <br>
    <br>
    At my current place of employment we are discuraged from putting
    comments in our code in general. The two exceptions to this exist rule,
    is API programming and code which cannot be made self-explanatory and
    therefore deserved commenting. The reason for this being that comment
    are often not updated as the code evolves, thus ending up being
    misleading to the maintenance programming in the end. Obviously this
    approach this approach assumes that an effort is being made to keep the
    implementation as clean. What are our thought on this approach to
    commenting?<br>
    <br>
    Personally i'm very fond of stuff like javadoc commenting. I generally
    like make a javadoc comment block for each and every
    function/class/global/constant in my code, regardless of whether it's
    use is self-explanatory or not.<br>
    <br>
    <br><br>Good comments do not repeat what the code already says, but why something is done. This "why" doesn't need to be updated that often.<br>
    <br><br>Here here! Well spoken, Bruce!<br>
  • Gene Wirchenko 2005-12-07 12:28
    java.lang.NullReferenceException:
    Does D-flat have macros like good old C/C++?<font face="Courier New" size="2"><br><br>// got_danish.hpp<br>...<br>#define kast throw<br>...<br>#define positiv unsigned<br></font>
    <br><br>I see potential problems with these two.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>Gene Wirchenko<br><br>
  • sinistral 2005-12-07 13:11
    Jens:
    Hillarious! To bad it's not possible to use ø æ and å<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Perl does support UTF-8 characters in variable names, as long as the <span style="font-weight: bold;">use utf8;</span>
    pragma has been included in the source code file.&nbsp; And, as someone
    between your post and mine has linked to, there's the
    Lingua::Romana::Perligata module for programming Perl in Latin.<br>
  • JohnO 2005-12-07 14:04
    <P>
    brazzy:
    "Bend it like Beckham" was called "Kick it like Beckham<BR>
    </P>
    <P>They must have skipped assonance and alliteration in language arts.</P>
  • ammoQ 2005-12-07 14:24
    RevMike:
    ammoQ:
    <br>In Oracle's PL/SQL the can be used for identifiers, but that's a bad idea.<br>
    <br>Just to clarify... Is it a bad idea to use those identifiers, or is PL/SQL just a bad idea in and of itself?<br>
    <br>
    It's definitely a bad idea to use accented letters in PL/SQL for a
    simple reason: after exporting and importing them with the oracle tools
    "exp" and "imp", accented letters will be replaced with their
    non-accented (US7ASCII) versions. Maybe not always, but often enough.<br>
    In many cases, this alone will not immediately break the program,
    because the definition of an identifier and all references are silently
    changed at the same time. But it is a time bomb, because sometimes
    later, you try to install a new version of the program from a script
    that still contains the accented letters to install a new version and <span style="font-weight: bold;">BANG</span> it breaks at dozens of places.<br>
    <br>
    About PL/SQL being "a bad idea in of itself", let's say at other database do worse (TSQL etc.)<br>
    In the company I work with, we write <span style="font-style: italic;">lots</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"> </span>of
    code in PL/SQL (read: all the business logic), and it works pretty well
    for us, with typically 20-50 concurrent users, ~200 users at most.<br>
    But of course PL/SQL has its limits; I have seen projects that tried to
    do things with PL/SQL it definitely was not build for, like parsing
    complex templates (they made a CMS <span style="font-style: italic;">completely</span> within<br>
    the PL/SQL cardridge of the OAS), and although it worked (kind of), it was sluggish despite all<br>
    the expensive hardware thrown at it.<br>
  • Albatross 2005-12-07 14:52
    <P>
    fmr:
    <SPAN id=_ctl0_PostForm_Reply style="FONT-STYLE: italic">That sounds like something the Quebec government would love to invest billions into<BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN id=_ctl0_PostForm_Reply>Yeah, but only as long as they are part of Canada, in order to prove Ottawa wastes billions sending money to Quebec to finance such a law. If they separate, it's another story...</SPAN>
    </P>
    <P>Quebec can't separate!&nbsp; If they do, Newfoundland would float away!</P>
  • RevMike 2005-12-07 15:00
    ammoQ:
    RevMike:
    ammoQ:
    <br>In Oracle's PL/SQL the can be used for identifiers, but that's a bad idea.<br>
    <br>Just to clarify... Is it a bad idea to use those identifiers, or is PL/SQL just a bad idea in and of itself?<br>
    <br>
    It's definitely a bad idea to use accented letters in PL/SQL for a
    simple reason: after exporting and importing them with the oracle tools
    "exp" and "imp", accented letters will be replaced with their
    non-accented (US7ASCII) versions. Maybe not always, but often enough.<br>
    In many cases, this alone will not immediately break the program,
    because the definition of an identifier and all references are silently
    changed at the same time. But it is a time bomb, because sometimes
    later, you try to install a new version of the program from a script
    that still contains the accented letters to install a new version and <span style="font-weight: bold;">BANG</span> it breaks at dozens of places.<br>
    <br>
    About PL/SQL being "a bad idea in of itself", let's say at other database do worse (TSQL etc.)<br>
    In the company I work with, we write <span style="font-style: italic;">lots</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"> </span>of
    code in PL/SQL (read: all the business logic), and it works pretty well
    for us, with typically 20-50 concurrent users, ~200 users at most.<br>
    But of course PL/SQL has its limits; I have seen projects that tried to
    do things with PL/SQL it definitely was not build for, like parsing
    complex templates (they made a CMS <span style="font-style: italic;">completely</span> within<br>
    the PL/SQL cardridge of the OAS), and although it worked (kind of), it was sluggish despite all<br>
    the expensive hardware thrown at it.<br>
    <br><br>I've actually done substantial amounts of PL/SQL.&nbsp; I spent about 5 years as a PL/SQL developer and I'm still not sure whether or not I like the language.&nbsp; :)<br><br>Although, PL/SQL did seem to be a dream like language after writing step triggers for Oracle Forms 2.3.&nbsp; Now THAT is a WTF.<br><br>One of my proudest accomplishments was porting an encryption routine from C to PL/SQL.&nbsp; Encryption is extra-fun when you don't have bit manipulators.&nbsp; I was prepped for that one a bit by first porting the same routine into PowerBuilder in a prior project.<br>
  • WWWWolf 2005-12-07 15:52
    GaidenCommander? Um, did they also have a class BattlecruiserStrikeDecimatorPlus or something? Did the naming conventions include "All class names must sound like attacks performed by anime characters"?<br><br>Comments in non-native language are fun. In a project I worked on, a fellow programmer added (in Finnish) a helpful comment next to a hideous temporary hack: "the implementors of this function are highly skilled professionals of the field, and complete idiots. Dear kids, please don't try this at home." The manager <span style="font-style: italic;">did</span> understand the humor, but the first comment from them was that the comments were supposed to be in English...<br><br>
  • Gene Wirchenko 2005-12-07 16:24
    WWWWolf:
    GaidenCommander? Um, did they also have a class BattlecruiserStrikeDecimatorPlus or something? Did the naming conventions include "All class names must sound like attacks performed by anime characters"?
    <br><br>For another take on this:<br>http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=051126<br><br>
    Comments in non-native language are fun. In a project I worked on, a fellow programmer added (in Finnish) a helpful comment next to a hideous temporary hack: "the implementors of this function are highly skilled professionals of the field, and complete idiots. Dear kids, please don't try this at home." The manager <span style="font-style: italic;">did</span> understand the humor, but the first comment from them was that the comments were supposed to be in English...
    <br><br>Snigger!<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>Gene Wirchenko<br><br>
  • ammoQ 2005-12-07 16:52
    RevMike:
    <br>I've actually done substantial amounts of
    PL/SQL.&nbsp; I spent about 5 years as a PL/SQL developer and I'm still
    not sure whether or not I like the language.&nbsp; :)<br><br>Although, PL/SQL did seem to be a dream like language after writing step triggers for Oracle Forms 2.3.&nbsp; Now THAT is a WTF.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    You were actually exposed to the idocy of trigger steps? I feel sorry for you... I was more lucky,<br>
    three times I managed to escape from Forms 2 and my first SQL*Forms
    project was already with version 3 and PL/SQL. The biggest WTF in
    Oracle Forms was about COMMIT; too bad I don't have the code of that
    old Forms3 project, where almost every form had a block referencing the
    DUMMY table, so a commit could be performed; it would be a nice WTF for
    this site.<br>
    <span style="font-style: italic;">(For you non-Oracle-aggrieved guys: in Forms, </span>fields <span style="font-style: italic;">are organised in </span>blocks; <span style="font-style: italic;">every </span>block<span style="font-style: italic;"> can be bound to a database table, so that changes in the </span>fields<span style="font-style: italic;">
    (by the user or programmatically)&nbsp; automatically cause
    corresponding update/insert/delete statements on the table. Forms does
    (in all versions I know) not perform a commit unless at least one
    insert/update/delete is performed that way. Too bad if you want to
    encapsulate all update statements in PL/SQL blocks...)</span><br>
    <br>
    <br>One of my proudest accomplishments was porting an
    encryption routine from C to PL/SQL.&nbsp; Encryption is extra-fun when
    you don't have bit manipulators.&nbsp; I was prepped for that one a bit
    by first porting the same routine into PowerBuilder in a prior project.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    That's what they told us about the Turing machine; if it can be
    programmed at all, it can be programmed in any turing-complete language.<br>
  • RevMike 2005-12-07 17:28
    ammoQ:
    RevMike:
    <br>I've actually done substantial amounts of
    PL/SQL.&nbsp; I spent about 5 years as a PL/SQL developer and I'm still
    not sure whether or not I like the language.&nbsp; :)<br><br>Although, PL/SQL did seem to be a dream like language after writing step triggers for Oracle Forms 2.3.&nbsp; Now THAT is a WTF.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    You were actually exposed to the idocy of trigger steps? I feel sorry for you... I was more lucky,<br>
    three times I managed to escape from Forms 2 and my first SQL*Forms
    project was already with version 3 and PL/SQL. The biggest WTF in
    Oracle Forms was about COMMIT; too bad I don't have the code of that
    old Forms3 project, where almost every form had a block referencing the
    DUMMY table, so a commit could be performed; it would be a nice WTF for
    this site.<br>
    <span style="font-style: italic;">(For you non-Oracle-aggrieved guys: in Forms, </span>fields <span style="font-style: italic;">are organised in </span>blocks; <span style="font-style: italic;">every </span>block<span style="font-style: italic;"> can be bound to a database table, so that changes in the </span>fields<span style="font-style: italic;">
    (by the user or programmatically)&nbsp; automatically cause
    corresponding update/insert/delete statements on the table. Forms does
    (in all versions I know) not perform a commit unless at least one
    insert/update/delete is performed that way. Too bad if you want to
    encapsulate all update statements in PL/SQL blocks...)</span><br>
    <br>
    <br><br>I was the technical lead on a project taking an
    internally developed financial system from DOS-Forms 2.3-SQLNET
    1-DECNET to Win95-Forms 4.5-SQLNET 2-TCP/IP.&nbsp; We off-shored the
    conversion of the forms to a company that promised they could do an
    automatic conversion.&nbsp; Apparently they had a tool to do conversion to
    Forms 3.0, then another tool that would convert to Forms 4.5.&nbsp; By the
    time it was done, the code was a mess of 'goto's, but we got it working
    in time for Y2K.<br><br>DECNET had a nice utility that allowed you to
    execute a command on another server, connecting the standard in/out/err
    streams to the local process across the network.&nbsp; I don't remember the
    details, but nothing we found in the standard TCP/IP based stack worked
    quite the same way.&nbsp; I wound up writing a utility that would create a
    DCL (VMS shell language) script, ftp it to the host, rexec it, and ftp
    the result back to the client.&nbsp; It was a big WTF, but I was able to
    isolate it into a library so noone else needed to see it.<br>
  • brazzy 2005-12-07 17:49
    WWWWolf:
    Comments in non-native language are fun.
    <br>
    <br>
    I once knew a guy who had actually worked on translating Japanese
    console games for the US market. The text he had to translate did NOT
    come in nice, separate resource files, it was embedded in the code. And
    he was also supposed to translate the comments in the code (which were
    all Japanese) so that the coders of the US licensee would have an
    easier time of making modifications.<br>
    <br>
    In one game, he found a comment at the top of a file that said "Hi, I'm
    $NAME, I'm a programmer here, and I'll write my comments in Kansai
    dialect" - of course in strongly Kansai-accented Japanese.<br>
    <br>
    It had me in stitches, though I guess it's not half as funny if you don't understand Japanese and can recognize the dialect.<br>
  • Anonymous Chicken 2005-12-07 21:18
    <P>Please inform him that Aleph is NOT a silent letter, unless I have been misspelling my first &nbsp;name for the past 30 years.<BR>Why do I feel he will still argue ?</P>
  • DaveW 2005-12-08 04:23
    Jens:
    <br>
    At my current place of employment we are discuraged from putting
    comments in our code in general. The two exceptions to this exist rule,
    is API programming and code which cannot be made self-explanatory and
    therefore deserved commenting. The reason for this being that comment
    are often not updated as the code evolves, thus ending up being
    misleading to the maintenance programming in the end. Obviously this
    approach this approach assumes that an effort is being made to keep the
    implementation as clean. What are our thought on this approach to
    commenting?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    If the comments are not updated as the code evolves, are the
    "self-documenting" function and variable names going to be updated any
    more often?&nbsp; I've seen plenty of examples where the latter reflect
    the original, rather than the current meaning.&nbsp; At least comments
    are easier to change - you only need to change them locally, not
    everywhere the identifier is referenced.<br>
  • Zlodo 2005-12-08 13:35
    AlfAlf:
    <i><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span><span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"></span><span style="font-style: italic;" id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span></span></i>
    Well, it may come as a surprise to you that not all french canadians
    are able to write properly sentenced comments in english. Where i work,
    comments used to be made in english (as is everything in the code) but
    after having comments that we're so badly written that they were more
    confusing than anything else, we opted to have all comments written in
    french.
    I agree that in a perfect world, i should be all written in the same
    language, but in the real world, that is not always possible.
    I see no WTF in this, i live it everyday. Sadly, i live in the real
    world.
    <br>

    <br>

    As the submitter of the second comment (which comes from some code in
    my previous company that actually originated from another company), I
    would like to mention that there weren't much in the way of comments in
    the code anyway, and that they were badly spelled, had bad grammar, and
    sometimes barely made any sense at all.<br>

    <br>

    By the way, I'm french and even when I was working for french
    companies, I was always writing my comments in english. One french
    company I worked for actually demanded that, just in case they would
    need to get foreign subcontractors to work on the code at a later
    point, which IMO is a sound decision.<br>

    <br>

    By contrast, the company from which the second comment originates is a
    france-based international company, with development going on in
    several places in the world, so writing french comments was really
    stupid :)<br>

    <br>

    Anyway, most of the programming material you find on the net is in
    english, so any programmer who can't be bothered with english is a
    crippled one imo.<br>
  • MikeB 2005-12-08 15:30
    DisturbedSaint:
    MikeB:
    <PRE>/// The Nessie Variable is the ultimate storage container
    /// for truth....

    /// Last week Japanese scientists ex-placed...
    /// placed explosive detonators at the bottom of Lake Lochness
    /// to blow Nessie out of the water. Sir Cord Godfried of the
    /// Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards
    /// to cast a protective spell over the lake and its local residents.
    /// And all those who seek for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
    </PRE>
    <P>If Nessie IsTrue() Then..... [&lt;:o)]</P>
    <P>
    <BR>dude, you like that movie *way* too much...<BR><BR>-ds<BR>
    </P>
    <P>IsTrue</P>
    <P>[pi]</P>
  • ammoQ 2005-12-09 04:46
    Zlodo:
    <br>

    Anyway, most of the programming material you find on the net is in
    english, so any programmer who can't be bothered with english is a
    crippled one imo.<br>
    <br><br>This is only partially true; because although every programmer must understand English words like "class", "loop" or "statement", there may be many domain-specific words which are not readily understood in English, only in the native language.<br>
  • Arjan 2005-12-09 18:01
    <!--StartFragment -->
    Paul Abraham:
    I always feel sorry for non-English speakers who are forced to program in English.

    <P>Well, not being English, I could feel sorry for the native English speakers having to deal with all those English computer words that actually have a meaning in non-computer life as well! Isn't it quite odd to use the name "Windows" while using the very same word for, errrr, windows? Browser? The home and escape key? Directory? A set-top box? Oracle? Doesn't the missing R in RFC 1945's Referer bother you?</P>
    <P>And above all:</P>
    <P>Hello World? ;-)</P>
  • styx 2005-12-10 18:10
    <P>
    Paul Abraham:
    As a native English speaker myself (from the place that has given its name to the language, no less), I always feel sorry for non-English speakers who are forced to program in English.&nbsp; Perhaps it's time to redress the balance.<BR><BR>French example:<BR><BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">si(condition)</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // quelquechose</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">ousi(condition2)</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // encore quelquechose</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">fin</SPAN><BR><BR>German example:<BR><BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">wenn(condition)</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // etwas</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">oderwenn(condition2)</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // noch etwas</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new">Ende</SPAN><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: courier new"><BR>I'm sure our French and German friends could do better.<BR><BR>
    </P>
    <P>*shudder* sounds like excel.</P>
    <P>never got the hang on iif,though..</P>
  • ARKBAN 2005-12-12 15:13
    I'm the author of the first comment, the GaidenCommand one. Just a minor few points:<br>- The GaidenCommand is a private, implementation dependent, inner class for a more reasonably named class called the "CommandManager."<br>- The poster also conviently deleted the comments explaining what the class does. Makes for a better WTF : ) I'l repost the entire comment here:<br><br>        /// <summary><br>        /// The GaidenCommand is a specialized Command for use by the<br>        /// CommandManager. The GaidenCommand is directly hooked up to some UI<br>        /// object, and when that UI object is triggered, it triggers the<br>        /// GaidenCommand.<br>        /// <br>        /// The GaidenCommand contains a regular, user-supplied Command. As<br>        /// described above, when the GaidenCommand is triggered, it will<br>        /// execute the user-supplied Command (if it has one).<br>        /// <br>        /// Note, the word "gaiden" is Japanese and means "side story",<br>        /// see "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaiden".<br>        /// Why did I call this "GaidenCommand"? Because it's very similar to<br>        /// a regular Command, but it serves the CommandManager in a different<br>        /// way, and it is not the same as a regular "Command". Also<br>        /// "CommandManagerCommand" is far too long to write. I also toyed with<br>        /// calling this the "AlephCommand", Aleph being a silent Hebrew<br>        /// letter, but Gaiden sounded better.<br>        /// </summary><br>        private sealed class GaidenCommand : ICommand { ... }<br><br>Why did I name it Gaiden? Because I was hard pressed to think of something more appropriate.<br><br>I thank the poster for not coming by and suggesting a better name, and trying to nail me on a naming issue versus the quality of the design behind it.<br><br>ARKBAN<br><br><br>
  • ARKBAN 2005-12-12 15:15
    I'm newly learning Hebrew, and in Hebrew the aleph is a silent letter. If it has a vowel it has a sound, but by itself it has a sound. Please correct my if I'm wrong, as I said I'm new to Hebrew.<br>
  • Joost_ 2005-12-12 15:49
    How about IndirectCommand. Or MetaCommand. Or CommandCommand (yes
    that's weird). I don't now the difference in functionality between a
    GaidenCommand and a Command, but I sure as hell bet that the difference
    between the functionalities of a GaidenCommand and a Command isn't a
    'Side story'.<br>
  • ARKBAN 2005-12-12 17:23
    I decided the best approach was to throw the meaning as
    far from away as possible rather than create a lot of difficulty
    relearning or alterning an existing concept. (In truth I renamed the class at least 3 times with a thesaurus in hand trying to thing of something better).  Trying to make one learn a
    subtly different definition of a word is much harder than learning a totally
    new word. The former you must unlearn what you learned, or at worst try
    to mentally keep track of two different concepts and figure out which
    applies and what are the subtle differences. It unfortunately goes against what a human brain is good at.<br>
    <br>
    So rather than the reader going "Wait, I know what XXX means, but is
    this isn't XXX at all, where are the differences and commonalities" I took the approach of forcing the reader to
    say "WTF is this? I better read this over carefully (or go ask the guy
    who built it)." I guess you could argue it's an intentional WTF, to try
    and prevent the reader from improperly applying any (possibly invalid)
    assumptions (a mistake I've seen happen far too often).<br><br>I've yet to see a good solution for this sort of naming issue, and I include mine in that pile of bad solutions.<br><br><br>Also I want to mention that I always follow this <span id="PostFlatView">sort of statement "I have commented just about everything; you should be able to figure it out without a problem." with "but come ask me any questions" and "if you see away to improve the comments and/or code, let me know how". The amount of out-of-context the submitter used is priceless.<br><br></span>I'm disappointed that it's not as difficult as I thought to trick the
    Daily WTF. But I guess that's my issue, I was gullible and believed
    that one would not intentionally manipulate code to make it worse than
    it was, or post it to Daily WTF without ever mention the issue or offering a better solution
    to the author.<br><br>ARKBAN<br>
    <br>
  • Arjan 2005-12-13 18:14
    <P>
    Anonymous:
    I'm disappointed that it's not as difficult as I thought to trick the Daily WTF. But I guess that's my issue, I was gullible and believed that one would not intentionally manipulate code to make it worse than it was, or post it to Daily WTF without ever mention the issue or offering a better solution to the author.<BR><BR>ARKBAN
    </P>
    <P>Come on, smile, learn from the comments people have posted and don't try to talk your way out of it by blaming this wonderful web site. This site is not about nailing people.</P>
    <P>I really think that the full documentation you posted, in which you're repeating yourself but in my opinion really are not clarifying anything at all,&nbsp;only makes the WTF worse. And you&nbsp;even&nbsp;claim you've renamed the class at least three times -- then how much time did you spent on writing that comment and how much money did you make for that? </P>
    <P>
    Anonymous:
    Also I want to mention that I always follow this <SPAN id=PostFlatView>sort of statement "I have commented just about everything; you should be able to figure it out without a problem." with "but come ask me any questions" and "if you see away to improve the comments and/or code, let me know how".
    </SPAN></P>
    <P>Agreed, it would have been nice if you would have received feedback. But the WTF is not about whether or not you're willing to spend even more time on the documentation. It is about the documentation you released, and which appearently you still think is well written. I agree with the one who submitted it as a WTF:&nbsp;I think&nbsp;it is&nbsp;useless, and a waste of time both for yourself and the one who's to maintain the code.</P>
    <P>By the way:&nbsp;how could a "private, implementation dependent, inner class" be "directly hooked up to some UI object"? Truth or dare: please post the code that was following the submitted comment?</P>
    <P>Arjan.</P>
  • anon 2005-12-14 10:08
    According to Terry Pratchett, it would have to be one of those million to
    one chances: bound to happen, but only if the odds are EXACTLY a milion
    to one!<br>
  • random garbage 2005-12-15 04:40
    <span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><p>
    styx:
    <br>
    </p>
    <p>*shudder* sounds like excel.</p>

    <p>never got the hang on iif,though..<br>
    <br>
    </p>
    <p>Really? I always thought IIf was relatively simple, rather like the
    ternary ?: operator in C-ish languages... It helps that I read
    somewhere that IIf stood for (or could be interpreted as) "Immediate
    If", which is effectively what the ternary operator is... <br>
    </p>
    <p>IIf (a , b, c) <br>
    and <br>
    a ? b : c ;<br>
    </p>
    <p>are both compact representations of <br>
    </p>
    <p>
     if (a) then b else c 
    </p>
    <p>which can be evaluated as an expression, and thusly used on the right hand side of an expression...<br>
    </p>
    </span>
  • Zlodo 2005-12-15 12:55
    ammoQ:
    <br>This is only partially true; because although
    every programmer must understand English words like "class", "loop" or
    "statement", there may be many domain-specific words which are not
    readily understood in English, only in the native language.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Well, it depends on which domain. Take computer science, for instance:
    most of the theory and stuff behind it originated from english-speaking
    countries, so most of the domain-specific terms are actually english,
    and most of them don't have any useful translations - at least in
    french (I don't know how it goes for other languages). <br>
    Of course, some books try to litteraly translate them, which makes for
    ridiculous and annoying results. The concept of template in C++, for
    instance, is known as template, even among french programmers.<br>
    In the french edition of stroustrup's book, they translated it into
    "modèle". So you then have to perform the mental gymnastic of
    translating it back to template.<br>
    <br>
    Anyway, my point wasn't about the keywords used in the language, but
    rather about the availability of knowledge, articles, litterature,
    forums and so on in english compared to french.<br>
    Google may be the best programming tool around, if you can read and
    write english. It's not such a good tool if you can only search for
    information in, for instance, french.<br>
  • kengaroo 2005-12-17 14:54
    <P>stupid ass[:@]</P>
    <P>lol</P>
    <P>looser</P>
    <P>loose</P>
    <P>looooooooooooooooooooooooooooser</P>
    <P>looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooser</P>
    <P>looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooseer</P>
    <P>loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooser</P>
  • Zorro 2005-12-18 11:31
    ARKBAN, you want feedback, here's mine: <br><br>1. you could have done withoug this.<br><br>        /// Why did I call this "GaidenCommand"? Because it's very similar to<br>        /// a regular Command, but it serves the CommandManager in a different<br>        /// way, and it is not the same as a regular "Command". Also<br>        /// "CommandManagerCommand" is far too long to write. I also toyed with<br>        /// calling this the "AlephCommand", Aleph being a silent Hebrew<br>        /// letter, but Gaiden sounded better.<br><br>I think this is the most 'wtf' part of the comment. Putting a "I" in
    there and spending 6 lines telling your story on why you choose the name
    ... I understand you spend time thinking about a name, but I don't really need to know what. <br><br>2. you could probably have done without this one too: <br><br>        /// Note, the word "gaiden" is Japanese and means "side story",<br>        /// see "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaiden".<br><br>If you need to spend a large amount of time explaning a name (or a link to wikipedia), maybe it's not the best name possible. Frankly, I think something like CommandManagerCommand (or CMCmd) even if less aesteticly pleasing does the job done just fine. <br><br>my $.02. Peace. <br><br>Zorro. <br><br><br><br>
  • Zorro 2005-12-18 13:18
    <span id="PostFlatView">Also, <br><br>    /// "CommandManagerCommand" is far too long to write.<br><br>too long to write? Any modern code editor (windows IDE or unix vim/emacs) has name auto-completion. I'd trade a </span><span id="PostFlatView">'what does that mean' to a </span><span id="PostFlatView">'long to write'/'hit-autocompletion-key' name any day of the week. <br><br><br> </span>
  • Anonymous 2006-01-16 04:13
    I have to defend ARKBAN here. Obviously if he puts this much thought into choosing all of his identifiers, he's going to end up in the loony bin, but I'm assuming he doesn't. It sounds to me like he simply encountered an awkward naming problem that stumped him. Sure, his solution was in the end worse than the disease, but all of his extra commenting indicate to me he had sense to draw attention to the problem. A funny name with a comment could be very helpful to a reader as a marker of an unusal or novel pattern. 'CommandManagerCommand' is not really acceptable either. Again, I'm sure there are dozens of better solutions to this naming problem, but at least he was conscientious about it.

    <br><br>BTW, how the crap am I supposed to just add a new post to the thread? Why am I made to reply to an individual post?
  • masklinn 2006-01-16 07:20
    Anonymous:
    <span id="_ctl0_PostForm_Reply"><p>
    styx:
    <br>
    </p>
    <p>*shudder* sounds like excel.</p>

    <p>never got the hang on iif,though..<br>
    <br>
    </p>
    <p>Really? I always thought IIf was relatively simple, rather like the
    ternary ?: operator in C-ish languages... It helps that I read
    somewhere that IIf stood for (or could be interpreted as) "Immediate
    If", which is effectively what the ternary operator is... <br>
    </p>
    <p>IIf (a , b, c) <br>
    and <br>
    a ? b : c ;<br>
    </p>
    <p>are both compact representations of <br>
    </p>
    <p>
     if (a) then b else c 
    </p>
    <p>which can be evaluated as an expression, and thusly used on the right hand side of an expression...<br>
    </p>
    </span>

    <p>Except that <code>IIf(f(a), g(b), h(c))</code> evaluates f(a), g(b) and h(c) while <code>f(a)?g(b):h(c)</code> evaluates either f(a) and g(b) or f(a) and h(c) (same thing for the if/then/else construct)</p>