• alnite (unregistered)

    Send those e-males over. We need to approve them asap.

  • tom103 (unregistered)

    Are both words (male/mail) pronounced exactly the same? I'm not a native English speaker and my pronunciation isn't so good, so I'm not sure...

  • Medezark (cs) in reply to tom103
    tom103:
    Are both words (male/mail) pronounced exactly the same? I'm not a native English speaker and my pronunciation isn't so good, so I'm not sure...

    Yes in deedy, they are pronounced identically.

  • Matt (unregistered) in reply to tom103

    Yes, they are. 'ail and 'ale endings are almost always pronounced the same way (sail, sale, tail, tale)

  • Matt (unregistered)

    The one about Programmiss is so depressing. Thank god for her sake she wasn't actually trying to get a programming job.

  • Max (unregistered)

    (with Eastern-European accent): in Soviet Russia The Service mails YOU!

  • Old Crow T. Robot (unregistered)

    Just enjoying the contrast of the two stories together. Well played.

    Captcha: jugis. Continuing the chauvinist theme nicely.

  • thistooshallpass (cs)

    I was friend with a HR girl in a previous job, a mostly-male IT shop. She was attractive and single, and she was going crazy with all the invitations, creepy emails, anonymous love letters and late-night voicemails. When she gave her notice, she went to lunch with her replacement, which was even more attractive; they discussed the creep issue and my friend suggested that at first she should talk a lot about her (fake) boyfriend so people would not bother her. It worked.

    What does it mean? That if you are a male working in a mostly-male organization and the HR girl talks a lot about her boyfriend, she is probably lying so it's okay to send her creepy emails and invite her to VMWorld (all expenses paid).

  • Dani (unregistered) in reply to Max
    Max:
    (with Eastern-European accent): in Soviet Russia The Service mails YOU!
    fail
  • ted (unregistered)

    The second one reads like a shitty dear abby post or a narrative on that old show on premium cable that involved single women talking about their permiscuous sex experiences. They would dramatize them and there would be some generic lifeless voiceover reading it like a narrative. I don't recall the name of it. Something something bedtime stories?

  • Michael J. Swart (unregistered)

    Today's WTF stands for Women in Technology Fail. Kinda depressing.

  • James (unregistered)

    The first two sentences of Story #2 were the perfect antidote to the creepy ickiness of Story #1.

    On the other hand, my CAPTCHA word was "eros". I'm a bit creeped out again.

  • Zylon (cs)

    This forum, of all places, I'd think you wouldn't have to tell people that the best way to kill a troll is to starve it to death.

    But I guess we get more than our share of extra-stupid IT folks here.

  • C-Octothorpe (cs)

    I'm OK with poor proof-reading and the occasional sexist comment or joke, but christ on a bike man, WTF was THAT?!

    The second article wasn't too bad, but the first was just low brow dude... I'm not expecting stellar writing as I understand you have a FT job, but christ, at least have a look at the article before posting it.

    I think zunesis should send in an IT "story"... I'll bet that it'll make it to the front page untouched.

  • Matt Westwood (cs)

    Fist cum mint? At least that's what it sounded like ...

  • Jun (unregistered)

    To guys everywhere: please, for the love of god, don't be the dudes from the first story. It really isn't helping.

  • nick (unregistered)

    TRWTF is women amiright?

  • No Fail (unregistered) in reply to Dani

    No....

    Fale

  • xoonaysys, despite fascist mods (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Fist cum mint? At least that's what it sounded like ...
    Just make sure it's in that order.
  • Herosp (unregistered) in reply to Medezark

    Well, I'm not a native english speaker, so I went to google translate to listen to the robotized voice and I noticed a slight difference. But anyway, I'd pronounced both identically.

  • Gunslinger (unregistered) in reply to thistooshallpass
    thistooshallpass:
    What does it mean? That if you are a male working in a mostly-male organization and the HR girl talks a lot about her boyfriend, she is probably lying so it's okay to send her creepy emails and invite her to VMWorld (all expenses paid).

    Who hasn't done this?

  • neveralull (unregistered)

    Where on earth are you guys working? We've had lots and lots of female programmers everywhere I've worked for over 40 years now, from day one until now.

  • frits (cs)

    The HR lady sounds hot. ;)

  • hoodaticus (cs) in reply to Zylon
    Zylon:
    But I guess we get more than our share of extra-stupid IT folks here.
    I blame Jeff Attwood. His point-based reward system is straight out of B.F. Skinner - the concept of positive reinforcement. It works even on involuntary glands within your body, as proven by Pavlov.

    The very definition of intelligence in behavioral psychology is susceptibility to reward. Ergo, the smartest people are the most sucked-in by earning meaningless "points".

    Witness Jon Skeet, who some time ago transcended his mortal coil and is now the patron deity of Stack Overflow. We haven't seen him here since. I suspect this happened to a lot of the good ole' regulars here, or at least, the smartest ones.

    I am satisfied with my mere 99.8th percentile intelligence, and am immune to Stack Overflow's charms (with my measly 453 points). Unfortunately, I'm a troll, which makes it sad that this site is stuck with me.

    If this site had a point system, I bet at least Jon Skeet would come back :)

  • daily (cs)

    I was expecting that in the second story, she will feel uncomfortable there and spontaneously decide she doesn't know what programming is (and blame HR).

    But sadly, it was a different story.

  • Voice of the Oppressed (unregistered)

    Looks like I offended someone with the truth.

    You're all hypocrites, you know that? You love freedom when it lets you do what you want (you're not hurting anyone, right?), but when I want to do what I want, I deserve to be beaten into a pulp and shoveled away - silenced.

  • frits (cs) in reply to hoodaticus
    hoodaticus:
    Zylon:
    But I guess we get more than our share of extra-stupid IT folks here.
    I blame Jeff Attwood. His point-based reward system is straight out of B.F. Skinner - the concept of positive reinforcement. It works even on involuntary glands within your body, as proven by Pavlov.

    The very definition of intelligence in behavioral psychology is susceptibility to reward. Ergo, the smartest people are the most sucked-in by earning meaningless "points".

    Witness Jon Skeet, who some time ago transcended his mortal coil and is now the patron deity of Stack Overflow. We haven't seen him here since. I suspect this happened to a lot of the good ole' regulars here, or at least, the smartest ones.

    I am satisfied with my mere 99.8th percentile intelligence, and am immune to Stack Overflow's charms (with my measly 453 points). Unfortunately, I'm a troll, which makes it sad that this site is stuck with me.

    If this site had a point system, I bet at least Jon Skeet would come back :)

    I'm not sure that helping n00bs with programming questions is necessarily a sign of intelligence.

  • davee123 (unregistered)

    We've got a fairly large chunk of female developers at my office. Somewhere around maybe 20% are female. ... All except one group on the other side of the wall.

    Back when I was hired, we noted that this one group had something like 6 women all reporting to 1 man, and nobody else in the group. So we dubbed their group "The Harem"-- although doing so may have violated some sexual harassment regulations.

    DaveE

  • Mr Sarcastic (unregistered)

    I call shenanigans on the first one. Everyone knows HR does not make mistakes.

  • SQLDave (cs)

    "But it all worked out in the end."

    Which is how she REALLY got the job.

  • Johnny (unregistered) in reply to Medezark
    Medezark:
    tom103:
    Are both words (male/mail) pronounced exactly the same? I'm not a native English speaker and my pronunciation isn't so good, so I'm not sure...

    Yes in deedy, they are pronounced identically.

    Could've thrown "they're" in instead of "they are" - just for more confusions...

  • awpeoi (unregistered) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    I'm OK with poor proof-reading and the occasional sexist comment or joke, but christ on a bike man, WTF was THAT?!

    The second article wasn't too bad, but the first was just low brow dude... I'm not expecting stellar writing as I understand you have a FT job, but christ, at least have a look at the article before posting it.

    I think zunesis should send in an IT "story"... I'll bet that it'll make it to the front page untouched.

    Ease up! I always think these stories are more having a go at IT Males (and their attitudes when they find a woman in IT) rather than at the (perceived) scarcity of females in our field. Sadly, given the similarity in such attitudes that I've seen with people Ive worked with, I'm not sure what you think was so sexist (other than the sexist views deliberately portrayed).

    FFS mate, it's people like you who go out looking to find discrimination in everything that start wars. (BTW: The second one was equally sexist (with a touch of racism thrown in for good measure), but because it was written from a different viewpoint you don't seem to mind...)

  • hoodaticus (cs) in reply to Mr Sarcastic
    Mr Sarcastic:
    I call shenanigans on the first one. Everyone knows HR does not make mistakes.
    If HR at my company would check even one reference - once - I would be shocked.
  • whoami (unregistered) in reply to hoodaticus
    hoodaticus:
    Zylon:
    But I guess we get more than our share of extra-stupid IT folks here.
    I blame Jeff Attwood. His point-based reward system is straight out of B.F. Skinner - the concept of positive reinforcement. It works even on involuntary glands within your body, as proven by Pavlov.

    The very definition of intelligence in behavioral psychology is susceptibility to reward. Ergo, the smartest people are the most sucked-in by earning meaningless "points".

    Witness Jon Skeet, who some time ago transcended his mortal coil and is now the patron deity of Stack Overflow. We haven't seen him here since. I suspect this happened to a lot of the good ole' regulars here, or at least, the smartest ones.

    I am satisfied with my mere 99.8th percentile intelligence, and am immune to Stack Overflow's charms (with my measly 453 points). Unfortunately, I'm a troll, which makes it sad that this site is stuck with me.

    If this site had a point system, I bet at least Jon Skeet would come back :)

    Surely the whole notion of posting is a 'reward system', because we only share opinions so that we feel good when others agree (which is why most people will happily defend even ridiculous posts, or slight oversights to the death).

    Given you post here more often than me, I put it to you that I am more intelligent....

    (and the person who doesn't post is probably more intelligent again - they don't need to prove their intelligence in some random forum because to them it's simply not a dick points contest)

  • Matt Westwood (cs) in reply to neveralull
    neveralull:
    Where on earth are you guys working? We've had lots and lots of female programmers everywhere I've worked for over 40 years now, from day one until now.

    These stories probably come from the US, where, from what we see in the TV we get from them, they have always had a difficult time integrating male and female social and business circles.

  • breaker (unregistered) in reply to Voice of the Oppressed
    Voice of the Oppressed:
    Looks like I offended someone with the truth.

    You're all hypocrites, you know that? You love freedom when it lets you do what you want (you're not hurting anyone, right?), but when I want to do what I want, I deserve to be beaten into a pulp and shoveled away - silenced.

    We have a winner.

    The demographic here accurately reflects the rest of the westernized world. Almost everyone claims freedom is a good thing, then complains when other people exercise their freedom. True Freedom leads to Anarchy. Sometimes we have to accept that Freedom must (somewhere) have its limitations.

    It's interesting (to me anyways) that the Americans who see, to often have the loud voices on rights to freedom and the like still use capital punishment. If people are free to do what they want, why do you have to kill them (or, for that matter, incarcerate them) when they do what they want?

    <disclaimer> I'm not for a minute suggesting that Anarchy is a good thing or that freedom is or isn't a great ideal, however I think people have to accept that rules (which are essentially infringements on freedom) are a necessity in society - this means that absolute freedom is not possible. </disclaimer>
  • BentFranklin (cs)

    In this town there is a scandal about a certain CEO who was gung ho with all kinds of motivational tools. One of them was apparently that each employee had to go into his office and be hypnotized. It turned out that the women were being partially disrobed and fondled. He got busted because some of them started to come out of hypnosis or weren't in too deep, and then a lot of others recalled finding their shirt buttons done wrong later in the day or their shirt tails tucked in the wrong places under their skirts.

    Guess what? It has nothing to do with IT! You are all perfectly normal males to have such feelings about female co-workers and do nothing worse about it than hang around HR too much or write love notes. So, go for it. It doesn't even come close to creepy, and you might get lucky.

  • Matt Westwood (cs) in reply to awpeoi
    awpeoi :
    Ease up! I always think these stories are more having a go at IT Males (and their attitudes when they find a woman in IT) rather than at the (perceived) scarcity of females in our field. Sadly, given the similarity in such attitudes that I've seen with people Ive worked with, I'm not sure what you think was so sexist (other than the sexist views deliberately portrayed).

    FFS mate, it's people like you who go out looking to find discrimination in everything that start wars. (BTW: The second one was equally sexist (with a touch of racism thrown in for good measure), but because it was written from a different viewpoint you don't seem to mind...)

    Pointing out the fact that different nations have different languages and speak with different accents is not "racism" you stupid Yank. And if you're not a yank then you're talking like one.

  • Matt Westwood (cs) in reply to breaker
    breaker:
    Voice of the Oppressed:
    Looks like I offended someone with the truth.

    You're all hypocrites, you know that? You love freedom when it lets you do what you want (you're not hurting anyone, right?), but when I want to do what I want, I deserve to be beaten into a pulp and shoveled away - silenced.

    We have a winner.

    The demographic here accurately reflects the rest of the westernized world. Almost everyone claims freedom is a good thing, then complains when other people exercise their freedom. True Freedom leads to Anarchy. Sometimes we have to accept that Freedom must (somewhere) have its limitations.

    It's interesting (to me anyways) that the Americans who see, to often have the loud voices on rights to freedom and the like still use capital punishment. If people are free to do what they want, why do you have to kill them (or, for that matter, incarcerate them) when they do what they want?

    <disclaimer> I'm not for a minute suggesting that Anarchy is a good thing or that freedom is or isn't a great ideal, however I think people have to accept that rules (which are essentially infringements on freedom) are a necessity in society - this means that absolute freedom is not possible.</disclaimer>

    Anarchy would be a brilliant thing if only it were allowed to flourish unmolested. Trouble is, it always falls foul to fascism.

  • thistooshallpass (cs) in reply to hoodaticus
    hoodaticus:
    If HR at my company would check even one reference - once - I would be shocked.
    This is not part of their job definition. They are paid to print resumes, ignore the opinions they requested from other employees, and accuse people of being bigots if they insist that the [insert your favorite minority here] candidate is not qualified.

    This is entirely different from headhunters, who share the same expertise but also are experts at making checklists of skills and counting everything in YOE (years of experience).

  • plaidfluff (cs)

    And with attitudes like these, good luck attracting women into IT careers. Jesus Christ, people, women are human beings, not slabs of meat.

  • Microeconomist (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Anarchy would be a brilliant thing if only it were allowed to flourish unmolested. Trouble is, it always falls foul to fascism.

    Anarchy falls foul to economics. Simply put, it is more efficient to specialize and trade than to attempt to do everything by one's self.

    Because such trades are so very useful, every group of people will inevitably create a system where trades are required to be voluntary, and voluntary agreements to trade are enforced.

    The only other alternative is that every single person has to own a weapon and act like a soulless predator; taking whatever they can, and defending whatever they have.

    But but but, you say, couldn't you get together with some friends and agree to defend each other? (Yep, precisely. Please see "every group of people will inevitably create a system" above.)

    Once you understand microeconomics, you will know why anarchy will always fail.

  • hoodaticus (cs) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    neveralull:
    Where on earth are you guys working? We've had lots and lots of female programmers everywhere I've worked for over 40 years now, from day one until now.

    These stories probably come from the US, where, from what we see in the TV we get from them, they have always had a difficult time integrating male and female social and business circles.

    Right. You come from some mystical utopia across the seas where women are sane.

  • hoodaticus (cs) in reply to whoami
    whoami:
    (and the person who doesn't post is probably more intelligent again - they don't need to prove their intelligence in some random forum because to them it's simply not a dick points contest)
    By your logic, Nothingness is the Supreme Being. I figured out who you are, Jean Sartre!
  • EmEtib (unregistered) in reply to tom103
    tom103:
    Are both words (male/mail) pronounced exactly the same? I'm not a native English speaker and my pronunciation isn't so good, so I'm not sure...

    It depends upon the sex. Females pronounce "male" as "disgusting pig".

  • fluffy (unregistered) in reply to thistooshallpass
    thistooshallpass:
    I was friend with a HR girl in a previous job, a mostly-male IT shop. She was attractive and single, and she was going crazy with all the invitations, creepy emails, anonymous love letters and late-night voicemails. When she gave her notice, she went to lunch with her replacement, which was even more attractive; they discussed the creep issue and my friend suggested that at first she should talk a lot about her (fake) boyfriend so people would not bother her. It worked.

    What does it mean? That if you are a male working in a mostly-male organization and the HR girl talks a lot about her boyfriend, she is probably lying so it's okay to send her creepy emails and invite her to VMWorld (all expenses paid).

    s/which/who/

  • Friedrich the Great (unregistered) in reply to Microeconomist
    Microeconomist:
    Matt Westwood:
    Anarchy would be a brilliant thing if only it were allowed to flourish unmolested. Trouble is, it always falls foul to fascism.

    Anarchy falls foul to economics. Simply put, it is more efficient to specialize and trade than to attempt to do everything by one's self.

    Because such trades are so very useful, every group of people will inevitably create a system where trades are required to be voluntary, and voluntary agreements to trade are enforced.

    The only other alternative is that every single person has to own a weapon and act like a soulless predator; taking whatever they can, and defending whatever they have.

    But but but, you say, couldn't you get together with some friends and agree to defend each other? (Yep, precisely. Please see "every group of people will inevitably create a system" above.)

    Once you understand microeconomics, you will know why anarchy will always fail.

    All other things being equal, an organized group of people will overcome the anarchistic individual.

  • Konstantin Lopyrev (unregistered) in reply to Medezark

    I disagree. They are pronounced very slightly differently.

  • lucidfox (cs)

    So autism is now an excuse for sexist incidents?

  • Harrow (unregistered) in reply to breaker
    breaker:
    ...If people are free to do what they want, why do you have to kill them...?
    Duuh -- because that's what *I* want to do.

    -Harrow.

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