Comment On Are You Cool, Man? and More

Are You Cool, Man? (from Scott) The interview I was conducting was going great — the candidate answered technical questions well and was honest when he didn't know the answer. I'd decided that he would make the short list for an offer and began wrapping up the interview. [expand full text]
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Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:09 • by operagost
The real WTF is assuming that a person who is concerned about drug testing is a drug user. Some people think it's intrusive. Quaint, I know; as once President Obama implements his universal health care, we'll have mandatory blood tests and invasive exams annually on pain of imprisonment.

(premier)

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:12 • by Chris (unregistered)
200778 in reply to 200775
You know... I come here to avoid the hassle of politics... thank you, operagost, for ruining even that...

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:12 • by Col. (unregistered)
200779 in reply to 200775
I don't know anything about the details of Obama's healthcare plan, but as a resident of the country that started universal healthcare, I can assue you that there are no mandatory blood tests of annual medical exams.

Anyway, yeah, Scott is an uptight asshole. So what if a sysadmin likes a bit of fun at the weekends, what business is that of anyone's?

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:13 • by Top Cod3r (unregistered)
Yeah, I know what you mean with these stories. One time I got called into an interview, but it was over within minutes. I think I was overqualified for the job because with every question they asked me, I knew way more than they did and even offered them advice on what changes they should make in order to get better at programming.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:14 • by Alan (unregistered)
<quote>"Hey, you seem cool, man. I'm a DJ and that's my first love, and my question is, do they drug test here?"

I just left the room and had him escorted out.</quote>

Wow, what a rude prick. It's not as if he started shooting up right there, he just asked you an honest question.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:19 • by Dean (unregistered)
The town in Iowa didn't happen to be Pella did it?
And you didn't interview with Hans and Yuriy did you?

This setting of this story seems very, very familiar...

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:19 • by The Undroid (unregistered)
I was impressed by my 11th-grade English teacher who thought facade was pronounced "Fake-aid", but the programmer definitely outdid him.

Why didn't Scott just say Yes?

By the way, 'nisl' isn't a word that I know of. Num scripsi nisi?

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:20 • by The Undroid (unregistered)
sorry, "scripsis"--and whoa, it is Latin captcha day!

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:21 • by Philippe (unregistered)
"Hey, you seem cool, man. I'm a DJ and that's my first love, and my question is, do they drug test here?"

I don't live in the states, and over here (central Europe), drug tests are not administered, so please forgive me if this question seems odd:

Other than that asking the question may be quite inappropriate, why is this considered a WTF? You said he was an honest and competent candidate. What company's business is it then if the guy recreationally uses drugs on weekends? Why not instead of escorting him off the premises give him a straight answer and say "Yes, we do test, so if you're going to work here, this part of your lifestyle would have to change. Will this be a problem?"

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:22 • by GruntProgrammer (unregistered)
Mother of God... I'm from a third world country but live in USA for the past 20+ years. I only WISH my English speaking skill wasn't good, otherwise I could get away with swearing at work like that Facade guy. Then again I do get away with it anyways.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:22 • by Yo mama's (unregistered)
http://www.insult-o-matic.com/insults/?yourname=Scott&numinsults=5&mode=classic

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:24 • by Ie (unregistered)
"On the drive back to Des Moines and the flight back to Missouri, I meditated on what a waste of time and money the interview had been."

Wow... travelling for an interview for a company that wasn't interested enough to compensate your travel expenses? TRWTF right there.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:31 • by Blobster (unregistered)
"Scott"s reaction to the interviewee's question seems a bit extreme. Technically asking the question doesn't indicate that he is a drug user though from the context it appears to be likely.

But should that affect whether or not he receives a job offer? Any effects that drug use would have had on him would have already been reflected in his abilities, which is the basis for comparison - so the presence or absence of drug use isn't relevant since it's already factored into the appraisal of ability.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:32 • by Gieron
I pronounce it fuck-aid. But only in my head :)

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:33 • by akatherder
200796 in reply to 200792
Ie:
"On the drive back to Des Moines and the flight back to Missouri, I meditated on what a waste of time and money the interview had been."

Wow... travelling for an interview for a company that wasn't interested enough to compensate your travel expenses? TRWTF right there.


He didn't say it was a waste of HIS money.

The Article:

"They'd looked at my resume and where it had said "University of Missouri — Rolla 1996-2000," they only saw that I had graduated in 1996."


Why did they think he graduated in 1996 when that was the year he started school? Did I miss something or did the interviewers just completely misread common English?

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:34 • by foo (unregistered)
200797 in reply to 200780
Yeah, I know what you mean with these stories. One time I got called into an interview, but it was over within minutes. I think I was overqualified for the job because with every question they asked me, I knew way more than they did and even offered them advice on what changes they should make in order to get better at programming.


I feel obligated to point out that you might have come off as a "know it all" instead of a mentor. Got to be careful on that one.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:34 • by Paul (unregistered)
Any day you get a 2 hour gratis lunch is not a wasted day.

Dolor--someone on the dole

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:35 • by Anon (unregistered)
200799 in reply to 200788
Philippe:
Other than that asking the question may be quite inappropriate, why is this considered a WTF? You said he was an honest and competent candidate. What company's business is it then if the guy recreationally uses drugs on weekends? Why not instead of escorting him off the premises give him a straight answer and say "Yes, we do test, so if you're going to work here, this part of your lifestyle would have to change. Will this be a problem?"


Don't bring your newfangled "logic" and "common sense" in here, buddy! The American system is working just fine without it, thankyouverymuch.

See, if the candidate were simply a chronic alcoholic he wouldn't be having this problem. "Drug testing" indeed. But we all know if he engages in any other recreational drugs at all, it also means he's going to be working impaired. We need not bother with actual metrics of performance to make such decisions any longer.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:36 • by Flavio (unregistered)
Scott, you are the real WTF.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:37 • by snoofle
Given that the facade guy was competant, I would have made that mispronunication the prime reason to hire him (over some other qualified candidate) - you gotta bring in entertainment on the company nickel.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:39 • by real_aardvark
200802 in reply to 200798
Paul:
Any day you get a 2 hour gratis lunch is not a wasted day.

Dolor--someone on the dole
No, that would be "Dolores" -- people on the dole.

Dolor would, in that context, be the Gummint.

Quite appropriate, in fact.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:44 • by Flatline
200803 in reply to 200796
akatherder:
The Article:

"They'd looked at my resume and where it had said "University of Missouri — Rolla 1996-2000," they only saw that I had graduated in 1996."


Why did they think he graduated in 1996 when that was the year he started school? Did I miss something or did the interviewers just completely misread common English?


I think it was you who misread common English. As they weren't expecting students still at school they assumed that the first entry on his resume would be his current (and first) place of employment, rather than study.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:45 • by Arlen (unregistered)
200804 in reply to 200797
Oh no - "Top Cod3r" knows what he's doing.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:49 • by Vroomfundel (unregistered)
200805 in reply to 200799
Damn, I can't wait for the time when the Scotts will take over the software industry. Then I can hire drug users for pennies.

I wonder when they will ban smokers and drinkers from working. Poor me when they target the speeders.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:49 • by Erik (unregistered)
I used to be neutral on drug testing, but now I'm completely against it, at least ever since I interviewed a guy that refused to take one.

The guy was incredibly intelligent, very engaging, and seemed like a kind of guy I would love to work with. However, the company I worked for at the time had a very strict drug testing policy: mandatory drug test when you get hired, and random tests after that (although I was never again tested in my 3.5 years with the company, so who knows how much they followed up on that).

Anyway, the guy said he never used drugs, and he probably didn't (although he was kind of an old hippy sort, so I'm sure he had some fun in his past), but he absolutely refused to take a drug test because he felt it violated his rights. I thought the guy was so well qualified and so likely to be a great addition to the team, I begged my managers to let the drug testing thing slide, but they wouldn't budge. So, we couldn't hire him. Of course, the whole company went under about a year later, so it was probably best for him that he didn't get hired, but it still pissed me off that we couldn't hire well-qualified people because of such a draconian policy.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:50 • by Sql Slave (unregistered)
The real WTF is that the original resume was improperly written. School graduation dates are given as a year and optionally a month; you do not list the dates of attendance. It is understandable that they made the mistake of thinking you were listing your experience at the school as a job you held for four years.

It's also common practice for people to get a free lunch on the company regardless of the expense, so I understand why they took you to lunch. If you're in a hurry, grow a pair and tell them you can see it's not a good fit and you're leaving.
--

I had an Indian coworker a few years back who, when he meant to use the term "workaround" said "reacharound." Genius points to whomever managed to plant that in his head. On the plus side for him, all his reacharounds got a lot of attention in meetings.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:55 • by Ben (unregistered)
200810 in reply to 200792
Ie:
"On the drive back to Des Moines and the flight back to Missouri, I meditated on what a waste of time and money the interview had been."

Wow... travelling for an interview for a company that wasn't interested enough to compensate your travel expenses? TRWTF right there.


He didn't say they didn't cover expenses, just that it was a waste of time/money. Not necessarily his.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:58 • by Alan (unregistered)
200813 in reply to 200775
operagost:
Quaint, I know; as once President Obama implements his universal health care, we'll have mandatory blood tests and invasive exams annually on pain of imprisonment.


I live in a country with free universal healthcare, and I havent seen a doctor in 12 years.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:58 • by Charles (unregistered)
The fuckhead pattern. I laughed so hard I had tears...

I'll never be able to pronounce "The Facade Pattern" the right way again. Heaven help me if it slips out at the wrong time, out loud, in a meeting ...

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 10:59 • by Jakob (unregistered)
"Hey, you seem cool, man. "

Yeah! That'll teach him to make that mistake!

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:01 • by Larry Lard (unregistered)
TFA:
"Hey, you seem cool, man"


At least the interviewee learned one thing. He learned that not everyone who *seems* cool *is* cool.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:02 • by Anonymous Coward (unregistered)
With regards to the facade story, I had the EXACT same thing happen in a software engineering class I had at university.

It went something like this:

"..and to do this we use the F*ckaid."

The class looks on blankly as the prof goes on like nothing happens. I look at my friends and we're all kind of confused. Then he says it again. One of my friends cracks a comment and we all try our best not to die of laughter right there.

A few minutes go by and we've all calmed down. He says it again and I look over my friend and we're dying of laughter again. We decide to bail on the class before embarassing ourselves any further. But we laughed all the way back to the dorms.

Seems inappropriate now but it was quite amuusing at the time.

Captcha: quibus

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:02 • by KR (unregistered)
200819 in reply to 200813
Alan:

I live in a country with free universal healthcare, and I havent seen a doctor in 12 years.


Health care is free where you are? So tell me, do the doctors in your country enjoy being unpaid slaves?

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:02 • by Ytram
I've worked with an alcoholic or two in my day, and that's not really pleasant. However, I've known a few potheads/ex-heads, and I'd take them any day over an alcoholic.

To be honest, none of it's my business until it starts affecting their work. Unfortunately, with some of the jacked up laws around employment, you pretty much have to give a drug test to new applicants if you ever want to fire them for failing at their job due to drugs.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:04 • by Sarge! (unregistered)
I'm from Canada, but worked in California for 6 years. When a small company I was working for was bought out by a big one they had all the employees take drug tests.

One of the best guy on our team did test positive. He was *really* *really* good at his job, plus I never ever even think he could be the kind of guy to use drugs. (And I worked there for 3 years with him) So needless to say, not only it wasn't an issue with his ability to do his job... if it wouldn't be for the test, you wouldn't know he used it.

He was let go.. just because of that. When I asked him, he just plainly said, that yes... he smoked once in a while during week-ends.

To this day (5 years later) I fail to see *ANY* use in those drug test policies... I actually think they are bad. Sure way to loose some really creative people on your team!

Way to go US... freedom loving country ;-)

hahaha.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:07 • by The real wtf fool (unregistered)
200824 in reply to 200800
Flavio:
Scott, you are the real WTF.


absolutely.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:07 • by Andy Goth
200827 in reply to 200794
Gieron:
I pronounce it fuck-aid. But only in my head :)
Remember the movie My Fellow Americans?

Drug Testing

2008-06-18 11:08 • by James (unregistered)
Given that the drug test guy was probably interviewing in America, maybe they're trying to make sure that their employees aren't going to take tens of thousands of dollars of training and experience to prison with them. I mean, if there was a way of testing if somebody goes out and steals cars on the weekend, I'm sure they'd do that too.

Bottom line: if the dude is breaking the law and not getting caught (yet), the potential employer has a business interest in that information. Whether the employer thinks the activity in question *should* be legal or not doesn't really factor into it.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:09 • by akatherder
200829 in reply to 200803
Flatline:
akatherder:
The Article:

"They'd looked at my resume and where it had said "University of Missouri — Rolla 1996-2000," they only saw that I had graduated in 1996."


Why did they think he graduated in 1996 when that was the year he started school? Did I miss something or did the interviewers just completely misread common English?


I think it was you who misread common English. As they weren't expecting students still at school they assumed that the first entry on his resume would be his current (and first) place of employment, rather than study.


That doesn't make much sense. The article only calls out the graduation date of 1996 (i.e. it doesn't make clear that the interviewers mistook his school experience for work). We have take these items for granted for the story to be clear:

1. The resume includes only work experience and no education and the interviewers don't care if a resume doesn't list education.
2. The title above his "education" section is ambiguous enough that it isn't clear whether it is school or work experience.
3. All of the information included in his schooling can be understood as work-related at a job.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:09 • by ryan (unregistered)
200830 in reply to 200819
KR:
Alan:

I live in a country with free universal healthcare, and I havent seen a doctor in 12 years.


Health care is free where you are? So tell me, do the doctors in your country enjoy being unpaid slaves?


DURRR HURRR

pretending not to understand common English phrases is not an argument. It's also not funny

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:10 • by Wayne (unregistered)
The real WTF is why Scott had the potential sysadmin escorted out. ALL Linus sysadmins are on drugs. you have to just to work on them.

Same way that Windows admins are driven to drink.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:13 • by Grovesy
200833 in reply to 200813
Alan:
operagost:
Quaint, I know; as once President Obama implements his universal health care, we'll have mandatory blood tests and invasive exams annually on pain of imprisonment.


I live in a country with free universal healthcare, and I havent seen a doctor in 12 years.


Me neither, other than one time I had to run into the local surgery to say 'hey I've an ear infection', was prescribed some antibiotics and then sent packing... all for the cost of £6 for the prescription. The only 'invasive' exams I've ever had to go through were when I left a company which gave me free private medical cover and I thought about extending the policy personally... They wanted an exorbitant amount of cash because I once caught pneumonia 10 years previously

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:13 • by distineo (unregistered)
Seems like the drug testing issue is generating the most comments. What a lot of people fail to realize is that companies drug test for a reason. Liability.

Let's say you are a functional drug user. By which I mean that most people wouldn't be able to tell if you were using or not. If it comes to pass that while performing your job duties you make a mistake that caused harm to yourself or others, or damage to property, that makes the company extremely vulnerable to lawsuits. Possibly even to criminal liability depending on the extent of damage caused.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:16 • by Rboy (unregistered)
Forget the drug test, have you ever hired anyone who DJ'd? Even worse, one that DJ'ing is their first love? Expect someone to punch in every day, and not do a darn thing...

But who puts an end date to their schooling when they are STILL IN SCHOOL? The correct way denote that is 'Current', and add in an expected graduation date.

the f*ckhead pattern is very well named

2008-06-18 11:18 • by The gang of four (unregistered)
Ya know I think the f*ckhead pattern is a much more apt name for the facade pattern.

If somebody starts talking abaout the facade pattern as if it's an amazing architectural design they're using rather than just a wrapper you know they are a f*ckhead.

Also if it's not completely obvious to you and needs explaining, you're a f*ckhead.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:21 • by SuperousOxide
200837 in reply to 200785
The Undroid:

By the way, 'nisl' isn't a word that I know of. Num scripsi nisi?


'Bloink' isn't a word either. What does this have to do with the story? Are you just typing in random letters to see if you get a real word?

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:23 • by ObiWayneKenobi
Wow this Scott character sounds like a real d-bag. And FWIW I'm not a drug user, but I think it should be legalized. Everyone knows that "Big Tobacco" pays the government to keep marijuana illegal, when it's been proven that A) Marijuana isn't more harmful than cigarettes, in fact it's probably less so since marijuana doesn't have POISONS in it like cigarettes, and B) That whole "gateway drug" stuff is a load of bullshit.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:25 • by Comfortably Numb (unregistered)
200839 in reply to 200801
snoofle:
you gotta bring in entertainment on the company nickel.

I guess, if you're a dick. The real WTF is that people like you and S.L. think that it's fun to mock people when they make a simple mistake.

Re: Are You Cool, Man? and More

2008-06-18 11:26 • by Rboy (unregistered)
200841 in reply to 200838
"Everyone knows that "Big Tobacco" pays the government to keep marijuana illegal"

Do They?

Re: Drug Testing

2008-06-18 11:28 • by mtu (unregistered)
200843 in reply to 200828
The European Court of Justice and the Federal Labor Court of Germany have ruled it unlawful in a job interview to ask the question of wether or not a woman is planning to get pregnant in the future or is pregnant at the time the interview takes place, or to later challenge the employment contract on the grounds of these facts.

Their reasons are that such a question both violates the principle of the equal treatment of the sexes and constitutes an unjustifiable intrusion into a woman's privacy.

Of course an employer has the greatest business interest in knowing this, but it is seen as immoral for him to ask with the intention of basing his decision about an employment on it.

I feel lucky to live here.
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