Comment On Dirty Laundry

Really, I don't see the technical WTF here...

This is a normal set-up procedure for enterprises, especially when the chain is connected to the DC/Head Office using an MPLS cloud or VPN technologies over the internet.

Putting proxy servers at each site is expensive, can be an administrative nightmare, and the savings by centralizing this at the DC is usually put into better hardware and/or HA for the proxy servers, and a faster and/or multihomed internet access.

The real WTF is the assumptions about the interwed and their network. Also, the unprofessional attitude by the said person. Using such language is only appropriate in certain interviews, and you should always make sure you dress properly.

Tyson's interview suit looked like it was last washed during the Nixon administration, with motor oil for detergent.

Seriously? Who doesn't wash their clothes in something like this?

First comment!

Yet another story about the boss watching porn and giving grief to his employee for making it harder to watch porn. Real original, Remy Martin.

You're also getting lazy with the hidden comments, Remy Martin. And enough with the damn unicorns and rainbows, Remy Martin.

ABC:

First comment!

You're joking, right? Or retarded, either-or...

I was thinking the same thing. That's exactly how my company operates.

Leased lines to all of our retail locations, and their only internet access comes through corporates proxies. Of course our corporate datacenter also has some pretty fat pipes.

C-Octothorpe:

ABC:

First comment!

You're joking, right? Or retarded, either-or...

Or it illustrates what a slow network would do?

Boris:

C-Octothorpe:

ABC:

First comment!

You're joking, right? Or retarded, either-or...

Or it illustrates what a slow network would do?

Perhaps... Just saw the comment and jumped the gun. Giving poster benefit of doubt.

Is it me or the page was flooded with unicorns?

A sysadmin... wearing a suit?

Sorry, I gotta call BS on this.

School Bully:

kastein:

"swirled the drain"?

Remy, put down the thesaurus and back away with your hands where I can see them. It's "circled".

Was actually a pretty good article other than that!

"Swirled" is obscure? Have you never heard of a swirly? I'll bet the average reader of this site has been at the recieving end of a few...

I never said anything about obscure. Remy really likes to clumsify (yes, I just made that up) English though, and needless thesaurizing (also made that up) of random words is a great way to do it.

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

Don:

The CTO complained about the -network- not the internet.... how is this related to the proxy?

Traffic to the proxy is clogging the VPN gateway, so everything, including email, VoIP, intranet and file shares (which also go through the VPN) get slow.

kastein:

School Bully:

kastein:

"swirled the drain"?

Remy, put down the thesaurus and back away with your hands where I can see them. It's "circled".

Was actually a pretty good article other than that!

"Swirled" is obscure? Have you never heard of a swirly? I'll bet the average reader of this site has been at the recieving end of a few...

I never said anything about obscure. Remy really likes to clumsify (yes, I just made that up) English though, and needless thesaurizing (also made that up) of random words is a great way to do it.

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

Well excuse me for thinking you would use a thesesaurus for finding recondite synonymns.

Now who wants a noogie?

Oh yeah.

At my last place, Web Browsing, VPN, EDTs and FTP, and OWA all came and went through a residential class DSL modem and service.

They didn't cheap out on the rest of the networking gear though. Kinda weird seeing that modem attached to a pair of Cisco PIX 515s, and then some Catalysts running the rest of the network.

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

slackz:

Proxy Servers are like Domain Controllers -- A minimum of one per location, replicated from a central setup.

Or else like the setup I provided at my last job: everybody including main office gets an appropriately sized line into the telco, and the one filtering proxy (+spare) is hosted at the telco, eventually alongside dedicated web or mail or file or whatever servers, mostly in much better hosting conditions than main office could provide.

This is precisely what my high school's board did. The problem is that they had around a hundred schools, each with several hundred students. Put all of them on a VPN and send every bit of traffic through a proxy, and you might as well be on dial-up. The worst part was when someone complained, and was told the problem was too much clutter on the computer (it was a fresh install).

As far as I know, nothing's changed since then. I wonder why they even bother providing internet if they manage to botch it so badly.

C-Octothorpe:

ABC:

First comment!

You're joking, right? Or retarded, either-or...

Joking, but can I prove that I'm not retarded? Nope.

C-Octothorpe:

ABC:

First comment!

You're joking, right? Or retarded, either-or...

Whoosh!

Remy's Sick and someone is posing for him. The number of Easter Eggs is far below his quota....

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

I'd say "swirl" is the better word here. Swirl suggests circling in an ever tightening circle rather than just staying the same distance from the center point.

Jack:

If you are unable to detect which employees are actually doing work and which ones are slacking off watching teh p00rnies, you might have a bigger problem than your network architecture...

In other words, web filtering is a technical solution to a human problem, and hindering all the productive people in your company is TRWTF.

Yes!! Don't use technology to fix problem with people - fix the people!
<rant>
I once worked driving buses, and twice in fairly quick succession there were major incidents (one at our company, one at another) where drivers were run over by buses because they hadn't put the hand brake on (the brake would automatically lock when the door was open, but the door could be closed from outside on some buses - AFAIK in at least one of these cases, the door couldn't be shut from the outside if the handbrake was off, but the driver {having failed to close the door from the outside} reached in through the driver's window) - I recall similar incidents (although without injury) happening long before I drove buses. Long story short, rather than teaching drivers to apply handbrake, or disciplining those caught forgetting, the company investigated a whole host of ways to alarm if the handbrake hasn't been applied (eg sensor in the seat that alarms when the driver stands up if the handbrake isn't applied). The solution they decided on (taking into account cost associated with wearing parts, reliability etc), was to put a sensor that triggered if a line was breached beside the driver and the bus was travelling less than some speed (4 km/h, I think). For me, what this meant that when I slowed to a stop at traffic lights during the morning peak (packed bus), something (eg a bag) would happen to cross the sensor and set the alarm off (and in fact, often even releasing the brake at lights, the alarm would trigger again - and it could only be switched off by pulling the handbrake). As a result, most drivers have learnt that there is a point the handbrake can be pulled to where the alarm will switch off, but the brake won't activate - but Heavy Vehicle brakes being what they are (they are fully on or fully off) if a driver accidentally pulls to far, the bus screeches to a halt.
In my opinion, all they achieved in this exercise, was to (1) train drivers to play with the handbrake while driving; (2) teach drivers to rely on the alarm to remind them to do something that any driver should do anyway; (3) annoy the hell out of drivers who were constantly frustrated that a peak service kept triggering the alarm, or a malfunctioning system kept the alarm going (it was an incredibly annoying high pitch alarm)
The reliance on (2) means that should the alarm fail to activate (or should the company get a new bus that doesn't have the alarm fitted yet), we are suddenly more likely to have a major incident. So while the solution might have appeared to fix the problem, the reality is that money had been spent to mask the problem. The real problem, is that (for whatever reason) some drivers were forgetting to apply the handbrake - the solution should have been to better educate drivers, and to have a process to discipline drivers who were found to have failed to do so. (there were also instances of buses in depots rolling, because the park brake hadn't been applied - as the air in the bus gradually leaked out, the 'interlock' on the door could release, so if the brake wasn't applied, the bus would roll.
</rant>

Captcha: cogo - except I'm talking about PAX not Cogo...

Capt. Obvious:

sibtrag:

I can easily see myself in that sort of situation. Back when I was interviewing (many years ago), I would try to allow extra time for anything that could come up, especially if the interview was a distance away in an unfamiliar area. In fact, I was more than an hour early for the interview for my current job.

Then I would sit in my car for a moment & decide what to do. In my case it was an early morning interview, so I got coffee & a snack to calm my nerves. But, for a 1pm interview, I might have seen if the interviewer was available early. In the off chance that something had come up for the afternoon (an emergency meeting, a sick child, etc) s/he might be very grateful. Otherwise, I'd decline the conference room & go out for lunch.

In the exact situation given, however, I'd probably have sought out a department store & tried to find something off-the-rack which actually fit me.

Arriving early for an interview can be a good thing. I mean, building in a buffer, making sure you're on time, all good things. I was just reacting to the "OMG, you made him wait until the actual interview time" comment.

But yeah, if someone arrives for an interview an hour early cause they were worried they would get lost, the worst result I can imagine would be giving them a seat in the lobby with a coffee or tea until the scheduled time.

But I do try to schedule interviews so they don't interfere with lunch. Lunch time is when I go outside, clear my head or puzzle through a difficult problem (depending on whether the day is difficult or routine). Switching gears to interview someone before then just happens not to work well for me.

How is that the worst result? The worst result would be to be aggressive to them, and tell them they're idiots for being so early. Offering them the chance to sit and wait it out (and give them a drink) seems to me one of the better approaches. Letting them know thta they are very early and it will be a long wait (so that they have the option of leaving and coming back) would probably be a good idea too.

It's good to be (reasonably) early for interviews, but the interviewee should accept that the earlier they are, the longer they will probably have to wait. If I am ever ealry to an interview (which is most times) I'll busy myself reading in the car, or go for a wander in the area (maybe try to work out exactly where I need to go - it's not always as simple as straight through the main entrance) or do something until about 10-15 minutes before.

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

Can't say I stop to watch....

Anon:

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

I'd say "swirl" is the better word here. Swirl suggests circling in an ever tightening circle rather than just staying the same distance from the center point.

Arguing about retarded details is one of the least endearing qualities of the technically inclined. Just FYI.

nobody:

Arguing about retarded details is one of the least endearing qualities of the technically inclined. Just FYI.

They're not retarded details, they're retarded people. Just FYI.

I'm confused, was it Tyson or the new CTO.

nobody:

Anon:

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

I'd say "swirl" is the better word here. Swirl suggests circling in an ever tightening circle rather than just staying the same distance from the center point.

Arguing about retarded details is one of the least endearing qualities of the technically inclined. Just FYI.

Point taken. However, I have to add, the word C-Octothorpe was looking for is "spiral".

Don:

The CTO complained about the -network- not the internet.... how is this related to the proxy?

presumably they weren't bypassing the proxy for local addresses. Was it that hard?

Nexzus:

Oh yeah.

At my last place, Web Browsing, VPN, EDTs and FTP, and OWA all came and went through a residential class DSL modem and service.

They didn't cheap out on the rest of the networking gear though. Kinda weird seeing that modem attached to a pair of Cisco PIX 515s, and then some Catalysts running the rest of the network.

What is this "bottleneck" that you speak of? - Management

Ilya Ehrenburg:

nobody:

Anon:

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

I'd say "swirl" is the better word here. Swirl suggests circling in an ever tightening circle rather than just staying the same distance from the center point.

Arguing about retarded details is one of the least endearing qualities of the technically inclined. Just FYI.

Point taken. However, I have to add, the word C-Octothorpe was looking for is "spiral".

I say it depends on the size of the object, sometimes it spirals, sometimes it swirls, and sometimes it is just stuck there and helixes its way down the drain.

JayC:

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks.

"Soft drink".

Network Engineeer:

Really, I don't see the technical WTF here...

This is a normal set-up procedure for enterprises, especially when the chain is connected to the DC/Head Office using an MPLS cloud or VPN technologies over the internet.

Putting proxy servers at each site is expensive, can be an administrative nightmare, and the savings by centralizing this at the DC is usually put into better hardware and/or HA for the proxy servers, and a faster and/or multihomed internet access.

The real WTF is the assumptions about the interwed and their network. Also, the unprofessional attitude by the said person. Using such language is only appropriate in certain interviews, and you should always make sure you dress properly.

If you can afford an MPLS line, you can afford a DC.

Jack:

If you are unable to detect which employees are actually doing work and which ones are slacking off watching teh p00rnies, you might have a bigger problem than your network architecture...

In other words, web filtering is a technical solution to a human problem, and hindering all the productive people in your company is TRWTF.

Rrrriiiiiiiiight; it couldn't possibly be the viruses you download, the spam blacklists you get our domain added to, and the subsequent inability to communicate with our customers that concerns us. It's you wasting a measley $10,000 a year masturbating on the clock that bothers us - even though that can't effect our lives in IT in any way.

Please.

"Your one o'clock is here"

But your manners are not here. Why can't you refer to a person by his name? Receptionist, my ass.

HellKarnassus:

Ilya Ehrenburg:

nobody:

Anon:

C-Octothorpe:

JayC:

kastein:

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

This sounds too much like questioning which of pop/soda/coke should be the common name for carbonated drinks. They're all fine in different areas of the US.

Swirled sounds just fine to me. Besides, a combination of liquids going down the drain doesn't "circle". "Swirl" is more accurate, as the liquids are mixing in swirls just before they're in the drain.

True, however an object being flushed down a ceramic throne "circles", not swirles, the drainage point.

I'd say "swirl" is the better word here. Swirl suggests circling in an ever tightening circle rather than just staying the same distance from the center point.

Arguing about retarded details is one of the least endearing qualities of the technically inclined. Just FYI.

Point taken. However, I have to add, the word C-Octothorpe was looking for is "spiral".

I say it depends on the size of the object, sometimes it spirals, sometimes it swirls, and sometimes it is just stuck there and helixes its way down the drain.

What is this "bottleneck" that you speak of? - Management

excelius:

I was thinking the same thing. That's exactly how my company operates.

Leased lines to all of our retail locations, and their only internet access comes through corporates proxies. Of course our corporate datacenter also has some pretty fat pipes.

Yeah...but WE also had a completely unfiltered backup connection that was mostly unused(!).... except for emergencies...

Arvind:

"Your one o'clock is here"

But your manners are not here. Why can't you refer to a person by his name? Receptionist, my ass.

"Hello, Ass, would you perhaps like a cup of coffee?"

iToad:

Nexzus:

Oh yeah.

At my last place, Web Browsing, VPN, EDTs and FTP, and OWA all came and went through a residential class DSL modem and service.

They didn't cheap out on the rest of the networking gear though. Kinda weird seeing that modem attached to a pair of Cisco PIX 515s, and then some Catalysts running the rest of the network.

What is this "bottleneck" that you speak of? - Management

Ours used to... then they brought in a T1 for most things... but we just kept the asdl for emergencies....
for awhile....

hoodaticus:

Jack:

If you are unable to detect which employees are actually doing work and which ones are slacking off watching teh p00rnies, you might have a bigger problem than your network architecture...

In other words, web filtering is a technical solution to a human problem, and hindering all the productive people in your company is TRWTF.

Rrrriiiiiiiiight; it couldn't possibly be the viruses you download, the spam blacklists you get our domain added to, and the subsequent inability to communicate with our customers that concerns us. It's you wasting a measley $10,000 a year masturbating on the clock that bothers us - even though that can't effect our lives in IT in any way.

Please.

Hey, if the big guys can, so can the little guys... and besides, don't we have a RIGHT to view porn on our company computer?

This is exactly how the setup at my major US technology corporation it setup. We are on one coast, HQ is on another... ALL traffic (including internet) must be routed through the other coast.

The most fun part is the our exchange server, admittedly an intranet service, is also located on the other coast... so when I'm sending a 2MB presentation to 4-5 of my local colleagues it ends up being 2MB of traffic to the coast, then 8-10MB traffic back when they all retrieve it.

The bottleneck is an area of infinitesimal size that acts as the center point for the swirling of bs. Some people confuse it with the more uncommon term circling which comes from the misconception that a object is of a constant radius away from a center point which has no definite position. Personally I have always preferred oscillating.

Pr0gramm3r:

The bottleneck is an area of infinitesimal size that acts as the center point for the swirling of bs. Some people confuse it with the more uncommon term circling which comes from the misconception that a object is of a constant radius away from a center point which has no definite position. Personally I have always preferred oscillating.

Well, you go oscillate quietly in the corner then

What junior sysadmin wears a suit to work??! Leave the suits and ties to the managers.

JV:

I have a fun proxy story. So, this company I worked at for many years decided it was time to start tracking, filtering and reporting on all employee's Internet usage. Sure, I get it, that a company wants to make sure people are working and using the network for job-related functions, no problem.

However, they decided to use the reporting to go after people. Everyone had an allocated amount of "personal time" to browse the Internet. The company started using these numbers against people during reviews and weekly status meetings.

Enter my department: the developers. As a developer, you'll understand the Internet is "The Developer Handbook". Google is your best friend, and blogs are like the gold mines of the coder's treasure trove. Needless to say, our first few "reviews" by the CIO were not good. He was red in the face, on the verge of screaming and was ready to make heads roll (yes, it was a typical CIO that could barely utilize Outlook, let alone understand the needs of his developers).

I had the exact same problem, the department manager couldn't understand why the two programmers who were reverse engineering an existing software product (so we could create a new module with features that even the original application developers said weren't possible), were the people who downloaded the most.

Bushea:

Not too shocked at the proxy concept. When I was working for a big multinational, this was their corporate policy - and they used to audit regularly.

Yes, our company has the same policy, although the proxy server doesn't even reside in the same country. For whatever unknown reasons, most of the sites the proxy blocks are necessary, especially for or hardware developers, but the pr0n seems to flow freely. Oh, and as a bonus, they've also blocked ssh-traffic at a packet level. It's not like we're designing anything with Linux here or something.

It's a good manager's craftsmanship I believe.

kastein:

School Bully:

kastein:

"swirled the drain"?

Remy, put down the thesaurus and back away with your hands where I can see them. It's "circled".

Was actually a pretty good article other than that!

"Swirled" is obscure? Have you never heard of a swirly? I'll bet the average reader of this site has been at the recieving end of a few...

I never said anything about obscure. Remy really likes to clumsify (yes, I just made that up) English though, and needless thesaurizing (also made that up) of random words is a great way to do it.

"circled the drain" or "circling the drain" is a common turn of phrase. "swirled the drain" is clunky and just sounds wrong.

There's a reason: it is wrong.
You can swirl something in your mouth, you don't circle something in your mouth.

Pr0gramm3r:

The bottleneck is an area of infinitesimal size that acts as the center point for the swirling of bs. Some people confuse it with the more uncommon term circling which comes from the misconception that a object is of a constant radius away from a center point which has no definite position. Personally I have always preferred oscillating.

...which is why the expression is "circling down the drain". As in moving down the drain in circles.
Swirling refers to liquid.