Comment On Slightly More Sociable

Today’s Tale from the Interview comes from Shanna... [expand full text]
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Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:12 • by KattMan
Can you believe some people can even exist in this world with prejudices like that and still look like a productive member of society? Actually thinking about it I can. Most seemingly productive members of society have prejudices just as unjustified as this one.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:14 • by Morg (unregistered)
In my interviewing experience it seems common to run an applicant the interviewers like by whoever is the big shot on the location (so the CEO for a small operation), at least to shake hands. Giving a veto option I guess.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:22 • by muahaha (unregistered)
so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:25 • by Doug#1
Girls can do math now?

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:28 • by Welbog
158158 in reply to 158155
Doug#1:
Girls can do math now?
Luckily that's just superstition.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:44 • by Tp (unregistered)
He should have been thrilled by the idea of actually having girls at the workplace!! Damn fool!!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:45 • by Kelly (unregistered)
Story of my life. The CTO at my last job was incredibly sexist - he even mentioned in front of the entire tech team how shocked he was that another CTO he had met was a woman. I was one of three females on a tech team of >50. I left because they kept hiring guys who were way dumber than some of the females who I interviewed and who didn't get offers.

Of course the comments on this post highlight the fact that the idea that women are less smart at math and computers is alive and well, unfortunately. I majored in applied math and minored in CS. And I'd be willing to take on Doug or Welbog in a smartness contest any day.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:48 • by Welbog
158163 in reply to 158162
Kelly:
Story of my life. The CTO at my last job was incredibly sexist - he even mentioned in front of the entire tech team how shocked he was that another CTO he had met was a woman. I was one of three females on a tech team of >50. I left because they kept hiring guys who were way dumber than some of the females who I interviewed and who didn't get offers.

Of course the comments on this post highlight the fact that the idea that women are less smart at math and computers is alive and well, unfortunately. I majored in applied math and minored in CS. And I'd be willing to take on Doug or Welbog in a smartness contest any day.
Though my comment was entirely facetious, the concept of a smartness contest is intriguing. May the best man win.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:48 • by Debug Mode (unregistered)
158164 in reply to 158155
Doug#1:
Girls can do math now?
She's a witch.

Seriously, first they're programming, next they're gonna want to vote or something.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:49 • by John Awkward (unregistered)
"some of the females who I interviewed"

who -> whom

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:50 • by Kinglink (unregistered)
158167 in reply to 158154
muahaha:
so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?


Nah it's that there's girls in IT. I've heard rumors of it, I've met girls who claim they were "in IT" but I've yet to meet one who's actually doing the job.

Of course just kidding girls... well not really, I've never met one.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:51 • by Andrew (unregistered)
158170 in reply to 158162
Just be sure not to challenge them to any ability-to-get-a-joke contests.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:52 • by Diego (unregistered)
girls are the best programmers

It is true! They are always successful getting the nearest codemonkey to make their job :-)

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:54 • by Kelly (unregistered)
158172 in reply to 158167
Well I'm a developer, so...hi.

And John Awkward - I could forward you some hilarious emails from guys in my office mixing up "your" and "you're." Or the guy who emailed me fixes to his broken stored procedures and apologized for the "incontinence." Too bad it's not worth the effort to find your previous comment posts and find all of the minor grammatical errors, which I'm sure exist.

'Sides, I said I studied applied math and CS, not English. :)

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:57 • by pitchingchris
I've met a few women that were pretty good developers and I've met a few that were better at math than me. Just because a majority of woman aren't in this field, that doesn't mean they all woman don't belong here. I'm sure we've all met some men that don't even belong in development either ! Sometimes woman look at a problem a little differently and can bring a fresh perspective.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 11:57 • by FireJayPa (unregistered)
158175 in reply to 158158
Welbog:
Doug#1:
Girls can do math now?
Luckily that's just superstition.


Next thing you'll tell me is they are allowed out of the kitchen...

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:00 • by Lynx (unregistered)
There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).

Personally, I do like it that way. At the risk of sounding incredibly sexist, it does give me something nice to look at, and they are interesting to talk to sometimes, and a lot of them are competent at what they do. It's a lot better than talking to a bunch of egoistic alpha males all trying to prove to each other that their manhood is one inch longer.

And then there are those that really, really, shouldn't be in IT...

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:02 • by Tp (unregistered)
The real wtf is that all of you feel he is "sexist"
If he said: "so you hired one of those guys?" he would've gotten the job. The interviewer was overcautious.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:03 • by bshock (unregistered)
They obviously made the correct choice by not hiring this individual. Job interviews aren't difficult. Anyone who is foolish enough to express naked prejudice during one is likely capable of worse indiscretions.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:03 • by jread (unregistered)
The *real* WTF is the picture they used on the article. No female developers are even remotely that attractive. The only ones I've ever known were hideous enough to haunt a house.

And yes, I am aware that most *male* developers do not have to worry about GQ magazine knocking on their doors.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:04 • by seymore15074
158180 in reply to 158154
muahaha:
so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?


Two of them!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:05 • by zip
"girls can do math now?" jokes are one step above "omg pix plz," guys

http://www.xkcd.com/322/

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:10 • by emurphy
I guess this would be a bad time to adopt "sociable girl 4ever" as my sig, huh.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:13 • by John Awkward (unregistered)
Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:14 • by StrideColossus
158185 in reply to 158176
Lynx:
It's a lot better than talking to a bunch of egoistic alpha males all trying to prove to each other that their manhood is one inch longer.


egoistic? (sic)
alpha males?

Maybe it's just me, but the vast majority of the men (and a lot of the women) that I've come across during my career 'in IT' were definitely not the above - nerdy losers yes, alpha males no.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:16 • by sweavo (unregistered)
Nothing sexist about being surprised to see a woman in software. There were 2 on my course of 95, and I have worked with zero female software engineers since.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:16 • by a former big-fiver (unregistered)
158188 in reply to 158176
Lynx:
There ARE females in IT ...
And then there are those that really, really, shouldn't be in IT...


Like most of the *guys* in IT?

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:16 • by Lynx (unregistered)
158189 in reply to 158185
StrideColossus:
Maybe it's just me, but the vast majority of the men (and a lot of the women) that I've come across during my career 'in IT' were definitely not the above - nerdy losers yes, alpha males no.

I agree the good majority are pretty ok folks. The problem is I work to support IT management. We're talking about alpha males in a pack of nerdy losers....

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:17 • by ViciousPsicle (unregistered)
So sad. A guy I worked with at my last job had a similar horror story. He was part of an interview loop where the candidate was doing very well right up to the last interviewer, who was supposed to judge whether he would be a good social fit with the rest of the team. When the interviewer asked him if he had any questions about the company or the team, he asked, "So there aren't any women on this team, right?" Yeah, he didn't get an offer.

Not only do women make great engineers, in my experience, they often make AWESOME engineering managers. Hmmm... is it okay to make positive generalizations?

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:19 • by Cuttie McPasty (unregistered)
158192 in reply to 158174
pitchingchris:
I've met a few women that were pretty good developers and I've met a few that were better at math than me. Just because a majority of woman aren't in this field, that doesn't mean they all woman don't belong here. I'm sure we've all met some men that don't even belong in development either ! Sometimes woman look at a problem a little differently and can bring a fresh perspective.


Dude, that's focus and attention to detail. Some of the best QA testers are women too. Let's not forget that. I've also been managed by a woman who was a CTO. If you still go through life believing that having math 'skillz' is a gender thing, I feel sorry for you.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:20 • by Lynx (unregistered)
158193 in reply to 158188
a former big-fiver:
Lynx:
There ARE females in IT ...
And then there are those that really, really, shouldn't be in IT...

Like most of the *guys* in IT?

Oh, for sure. Some of the guys aren't the greatest in the world either. There's gender equality in stupidity.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:21 • by Fuz (unregistered)
158194 in reply to 158184
John Awkward:
Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.


Mistakes in your post's what?

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:23 • by Doug#1
Woah, I feel like my character is being attacked here.

I was only joking about the women can't do math thing.

They can do anything a man can do.

Now get back in the kitchen and make me some eggs you baby machine!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:23 • by VampBoy (unregistered)
158196 in reply to 158184
John Awkward:
Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.


Oh, I just love irony.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:25 • by death
Unfortunately the tone of the statement is not visible from text. Saying the same thing with a surprised voice is excusable, some male developers have never seen a female developer, thats no reason to decide the the guy is sexist. However there are nasty ways of saying the same thing too. And in the end, If others do not feel comfortable working with him, he wont be hired.

The attitude is hardly surprising with the number of males on the market in IT trade compared to females that a female is regarded as an odd one out. My experience with this attitude has been mostly outside work, tho I work in a team with two guys. Going to an IT themed IRC channel and declaring yourself female fetches an interesting result. The boys club phenomena. When women talk about technology they must be wrong.
Example:
Me and the guys were wiring a large production hall with CAT5. We had rented one of those electricity powered basket lifts that can be driven around while in the basket. Mid one day our vehicle stopped being able to move on the floor, but it still lifted. We looked around and found that one of the wires powering the wheel drives had a power line that looked burnt from the edge and came to conclusion that it must have lost contact. We called the rental company who sent out their repair crew along with the replacement lift. The guys were out of touch at the time so I got to show the two repair guys to the lift and explain the problem. I showed them the scorched looking cable and explained why we believed it was the problem. Then I went away. Hour later I came back to see how they were doing. They were investigating the machine form completely different end and had not even looked at the cable. I explained to them again why I believed it might be a good idea to see the cable. they shrugged and kept on doing whatever. About an hour after that the guys returned, and when I told them about the repair guys tinkering. Then my boss went to see them, and lo and behold, the repair guys immediately started looking into the burnt looking cable and in 15 minutes time had the lift rolling again with a temporary patch to the cable... And things like that seem to happen quite often... Sigh, thus is the life of a tech understanding female. But seeing a sexist guys face when you OWN him in IT is precious ;)



Addendum (2007-10-22 13:01):
PS: thats 270 panel patched cat5-s I wont be forgetting in a hurry :P

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:38 • by A N Other (unregistered)
One word...

Paula

Captcha: Dreadlocks - no thanks they smell!!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:38 • by Cyberscythe (unregistered)
I just want to mention the Steve Rule again.
http://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/archive/2005/04/22/403889.aspx

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:40 • by jkohen
158201 in reply to 158197
death:
The attitude is hardly surprising with the number of males on the market in IT trade compared to females that a female is regarded as an odd one out. My experience with this attitude has been mostly outside work, tho I work in a team with two guys. Going to an IT themed IRC channel and declaring yourself female fetches an interesting result. The boys club phenomena. When women talk about technology they must be wrong.


Wait, you are a woman and your nick name is "death?!" There is clearly something strange going on here.

Back to reality... this whole argument is bollocks. Why are most of you guys here so awkward when refering to women? And I mean those trying to be serious. Most non-sarcastic comments today seem so forced and unnatural that it's not even funny. You are trying too hard.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:41 • by anne (unregistered)
158202 in reply to 158195
Doug#1:
Woah, I feel like my character is being attacked here.

I was only joking about the women can't do math thing.

They can do anything a man can do.

Now get back in the kitchen and make me some eggs you baby machine!


We can do math, it's just, like, hard, ok? Tee-hee! *hair toss*

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:42 • by operagost
158203 in reply to 158162
Kelly:
Of course the comments on this post highlight the fact that the idea that women are less smart at math and computers is alive and well, unfortunately.

You comment highlights the fact that WTF posters named "Kelly" don't understand irony.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:43 • by Calli Arcale (unregistered)
158204 in reply to 158197
That's interesting. Where I work, I haven't had to deal with any kind of sexism. I'd say there are definitely more males than females, but we ladies are accepted on our own merits. It's a very nice feeling -- not considered special because of gender, and not expected to fail because of our gender.

One of my projects went through a "slow" period for a while and all of the men except for the team lead wound up on other projects. Basically, only the folks who absolutely had to be on the program were still on it (and not on it full-time). The weekly software meetings were very relaxed, and conversation often turned to topics which men might find uncomfortable, such as childbirth. :-P Of course, the fact that the project was moving very slowly at the time had a lot to do with the relaxed atmosphere as well.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:43 • by dmitriy
158205 in reply to 158154
muahaha:
so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?

Doug#1:
Girls can do math now?


I am a male software developer, and these two comments made me cringe. Of course women can do math, and of course women can be programmers. I bet that for every Paula Bean there are dozens of excellent female programmers.

I see two WTFs in the story. The first, and most obvious, is the interviewee's attitude toward female programmers. The second is that he didn't keep his mouth shut. He questioned the CEO's competence with his remark, and this may be part of the reason he didn't get hired.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:45 • by Mogri (unregistered)
The Steve Rule: in a random group of programmers [from English-speaking countries], there will be more people named Steve than females.

(With internationalization nowadays, you need the English-speaking countries clause.)

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:47 • by hehe (unregistered)
158207 in reply to 158165
Hillarious!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:49 • by Matthew (unregistered)
158208 in reply to 158176
Lynx:
There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).


I agree, "girls" is so condescending. I prefer dames.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:49 • by nice (unregistered)
158209 in reply to 158170
Andrew:
Just be sure not to challenge them to any ability-to-get-a-joke contests.


Too funny!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:50 • by Mj (unregistered)
158210 in reply to 158205
dmitriy:
muahaha:
so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?

Doug#1:
Girls can do math now?


I am a male software developer, and these two comments made me cringe. Of course women can do math, and of course women can be programmers. I bet that for every Paula Bean there are dozens of excellent female programmers.

I see two WTFs in the story. The first, and most obvious, is the interviewee's attitude toward female programmers. The second is that he didn't keep his mouth shut. He questioned the CEO's competence with his remark, and this may be part of the reason he didn't get hired.

I’m a female programmer, and these comments did not make me cringe. They made me chuckle. Stop being so serious… we don’t need someone to save us.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:51 • by Anon (unregistered)
158211 in reply to 158194
lol...I was thinking the exact same thing!

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:55 • by Ben (unregistered)
The real WTF is that Shanna was appearing in public without a male relative and without her face covered, in the manner of a whore.

Re: Slightly More Sociable

2007-10-22 12:56 • by Anon (unregistered)
fuz:

John Awkward:

Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.


Mistakes in your post's what?


lol....I was thinking the exact same thing! (sorry for the duplicate post....the quote didn't come through in the initial posting).
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