• Sascha (unregistered)

    The real WTF is that there are just too few girls in Computer Sciences.

    /sascha

    (once-again student since 2 weeks ;-)

  • Sascha (unregistered)

    The real WTF is that there are just too few girls in Computer Sciences.

    /sascha

    (once-again student since 2 weeks ;-)

  • CP (unregistered)

    When I started my CS degree fresh out of high school in 1990, I was one of maybe 2-3 females in my classes. I got hired as a programmer pretty early on, and never finished the degree.

    Now I'm running my own business (successfully, even; self-employed != unemployed any more ;-) and finishing my degree this December. I'm still one of maybe 2-3 females in my classes.

  • Troy Mclure (unregistered) in reply to Mj
    Mj:
    I’m a female programmer, and these comments did not make me cringe. They made me chuckle. Stop being so serious… we don’t need someone to save us.

    I've already notified Gloria Allred. Don't worry sweetheart we'll save you!!!

    (A rip of the Man Show, but genius none the less) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEqWgMsEA_8

  • Me (unregistered) in reply to John Awkward
    John Awkward:
    Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.

    The plural of post is posts, you used the possessive.

  • Eam (unregistered) in reply to VampBoy
    VampBoy:
    John Awkward:
    Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.

    Oh, I just love irony.

    I think you and Fuz just lost the ability-to-get-a-joke contest.

  • Eam (unregistered) in reply to Me
    Me:
    John Awkward:
    Don't worry, I'm only here to be awkward. And you can try to find grammar mistakes in my post's, but you won't find any.

    The plural of post is posts, you used the possessive.

    You too. Get your head in the game.
  • (cs) in reply to Mj
    Mj:
    dmitriy:
    muahaha:
    so the real wtf is they actually hired a girl, right?
    Doug#1:
    Girls can do math now?

    I am a male software developer, and these two comments made me cringe. Of course women can do math, and of course women can be programmers. I bet that for every Paula Bean there are dozens of excellent female programmers.

    I’m a female programmer, and these comments did not make me cringe. They made me chuckle. Stop being so serious… we don’t need someone to save us.

    You didn't get the joke. That's humor, Russian-style.

    What this discusion needs is more stereotypes!

    But really, what's wrong with someone being upset by sexism (even if that person didn't get the sarcasm in the OPs' comments)? Does it really matter to you that he is a male? Can't you separate his opinion from his gender?

    You people are weird. I want more comments on why PHP programmers are terrible and why Oracle killed your dog. At least those don't make me so scared of mankind as the ongoing exchange.

  • (cs) in reply to Matthew
    Matthew:
    Lynx:
    There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).

    I agree, "girls" is so condescending. I prefer dames.

    broads is the best!

  • (cs) in reply to Mj
    Mj:
    I’m a female programmer, and these comments did not make me cringe. They made me chuckle. Stop being so serious… we don’t need someone to

    :D I see a seasoned IT female here:D You need the skill to laugh at sexist jokes (and respond in kind, there are plenty of male stereotype to exploit out there ;) ) to break into the boys cub ;)

    Btw, the full name would be Alexia Death (a rather female name for an alias;) ) But Death is a whole char shorter(conserving bytes to spare energy resources ) ;)

  • (cs)

    With all joking aside I would love to encounter more women in the technical world. In college I just wanted 1 woman in my class let alone 1 attractive woman.

    What is the reason for the shortage? Aside from the fact that we are all creepy creepy little boys at heart.

  • (cs)

    This is the perfect thread for me to complain about my company's Women's Forum. They had some meeting about career pathways/etc. Being new at the company, I heard about the meeting and decided to go. Didn't know it was a women-only thing until the meeting started. Man, that was awkward.

    I got some wierd looks, but I'd like to see them use it against me without having harassment lawsuits...

  • (cs) in reply to Tp
    Tp:
    The real wtf is that all of you feel he is "sexist" If he said: "so you hired one of those guys?" he would've gotten the job. The interviewer was overcautious.
    Depends on the tone. The following sentences all have different meanings:

    "So, you hired one of those girls?" (pretty much neutral) "So you hired one of those girls?" (implying that the girl was hired because he wasn't) "So you hired one of those GIRLS?" (implying that girls can't do the job) "So you hired one of THOSE girls?" (implying that those particular girls don't seem very capable) "So you HIRED one of those girls?" (implying that women should do slave labor) "So YOU hired one of those girls?" (implying that the person you're talking to is a complete retard)

  • (cs) in reply to Doug#1
    Doug#1:
    With all joking aside I would love to encounter more women in the technical world. In college I just wanted 1 woman in my class let alone 1 attractive woman.
    Poor you :( I started out as 1 out of 3 females in CS hardware branch at university. I was the only one who graduated tho...
    Doug#1:
    What is the reason for the shortage? Aside from the fact that we are all creepy creepy little boys at heart.
    I guess tech is just not as attractive to women as it is to men :D I mean how many women would find it interesting to know anything about what makes a computer work?
  • Steve Rapp (unregistered)

    Talk about the law of natural consequences kicking .....

  • (cs) in reply to Andrew
    Andrew:
    Just be sure not to challenge them to any ability-to-get-a-joke contests.

    The jokes have to actually be funny for that to work.

    Helpful hint: Most of the jokes about women in computing are of the funny-once type, not funny-always. After you've heard them the first few thousand times, they become actively annoying.

  • antiPC (unregistered)

    One of the most amazing things about modern PC society is that we refuse to acknowledge that men and women are, in general, wired differently. Our brains are different. The male brain and body work well for certain tasks, and the female brain and body work well for other tasks.

    There are exceptions, but those exceptions shouldn't prevent one from coming to a rational conclusion, on this or any other similar subject.

  • ahgan (unregistered) in reply to Doug#1
    Doug#1:
    Matthew:
    Lynx:
    There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).

    I agree, "girls" is so condescending. I prefer dames.

    broads is the best!

    Better than wench?

  • (cs) in reply to KattMan
    KattMan:
    Can you believe some people can even exist in this world with prejudices like that and still look like a productive member of society? Actually thinking about it I can. Most seemingly productive members of society have prejudices just as unjustified as this one.

    From the wording, it sounds like he's not prejudiced, he simply never got beyond the "girls have COOTIES!" stage of being a kid.

  • (cs)

    The first interview: We need someone for the ABC project. This guy seems pretty competent, but that girl has a nice ra... err she's more sociable.

    The second interview: Absolutely nothing is getting done on the ABC project. Call that one guy back and give him the same project on the same deadline.

  • (cs) in reply to FireJayPa
    FireJayPa:
    Next thing you'll tell me is they are allowed out of the kitchen...

    Well of course they are. Who else is going to bring me a beer when I'm watching the game in the living room?

  • Harrow (unregistered) in reply to death
    death:
    ...Then my boss went to see them, and lo and behold, the repair guys immediately started looking into the burnt looking cable and in 15 minutes time had the lift rolling again...
    When some dumbtard ignores or disrespects one of my techs because she is a girl, I always call him on it. Nothing dreadful or threatening, just a remark or two to indicate dissatisfaction with performance. As the boss in your example, I would say something like, "Didn't she tell you about the burnt cable? Didn't you understand her? You'd've had it fixed two hours ago if you'd paid attention." I would have tried to say that where you could hear it, too, just to balance out the insult a little.

    -Harrow.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Kinglink

    There are 14 people in our team, 7 of whom are of the female persuasion; two are managers and one is a team leader. It's the most women I've ever worked with in an IT job.

    And three of them are hot.

  • (cs)

    Where is this? If it's not in US (speak about préjugés?), i could perhaps apply for code monkey guy in an environnement with less testosterone... It's my opinion anyway we are damn missing women in tech environment. I know a few IT girls but none that are incompetent. By far, i can't say the same of men... Glad some bosses around are aware of that!

  • (cs) in reply to Dave
    Dave:
    There are 14 people in our team, 7 of whom are of the female persuasion; two are managers and one is a team leader. It's the most women I've ever worked with in an IT job.

    And three of them are hot.

    Sounds like Dave has it made. How does he get any work done ?

  • meh (unregistered) in reply to death
    death:
    Btw, the full name would be Alexia Death (a rather female name for an alias;) ) But Death is a whole char shorter(conserving bytes to spare energy resources ) ;)

    Wut? A whole char?

  • Open Sores (unregistered) in reply to Kelly
    Kelly:
    Story of my life. The CTO at my last job was incredibly sexist - he even mentioned in front of the entire tech team how shocked he was that another CTO he had met was a woman. I was one of three females on a tech team of >50. I left because they kept hiring guys who were way dumber than some of the females who I interviewed and who didn't get offers.

    Of course the comments on this post highlight the fact that the idea that women are less smart at math and computers is alive and well, unfortunately. I majored in applied math and minored in CS. And I'd be willing to take on Doug or Welbog in a smartness contest any day.

    Damn, I was completely with you right up until the bastardization of the Engrish language of "a smartness contest"... "an intellectual contest", "a challenge of minds", etc would be far less grating on ones ears!

  • (cs) in reply to death
    death:
    Btw, the full name would be Alexia Death (a rather female name for an alias;) ) But Death is a whole char shorter(conserving bytes to spare energy resources ) ;)

    Well that's cute, because you know about something so simple (computers use electricy), yet seemingly quite advanced, and that and you wanted to share that with us.... awww

    Also, that doesn't save electricity, in any way, shapre or form... so you wanted to share a really simple concept, but you do not even understand it? Don't worry though, I'd chew any out for saying something that retarded.

  • (cs) in reply to Harrow

    "When some dumbtard ignores or disrespects one of my techs because she is a girl, I always call him on it. Nothing dreadful or threatening, just a remark or two to indicate dissatisfaction with performance."

    I'd like to work for you :) I did not exactly hear what he told them but we had a nice laugh at them amongst ourselves afterwards about those blokes... It must feel stupid to be told three times by not lift experts where the problem is and spending two hours finding out that they are right...

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Matthew
    Matthew:
    Lynx:
    There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).

    I agree, "girls" is so condescending. I prefer dames.

    I use girls because it pairs well with 'guys'. Guys and women? Yecch.

  • Sean (unregistered)

    Personal anecdotal statistics:

    I've met 5 women in IT in my life. 4 of the 5 were incompetent jackasses who wouldn't even pass a level 100 CS course if I was running the classroom. Only 1/5th of women who try to be in IT are actually good at it.

    I've met countless men in IT in my life. All but a small handful of them were incompetent jackasses etc. The percentage of them who try to be in IT and are good at it is quite close to 0.

    Therefor, I can only conclude that women are better at IT than men. Statistics don't lie. ;)

  • Ben (unregistered) in reply to Mogri

    I work in an IT department with about 25 developers. My department is about 40% females, and we don't have any Steves.

  • (cs) in reply to Vechni
    Vechni:
    Well that's cute, because you know about something so simple (computers use electricy), yet seemingly quite advanced, and that and you wanted to share that with us.... awww
    Or of abstract thought and free association...

    Aww, poor you, it must be hard to live without sense of humor other than black humor. ;)

    Vechni:
    Also, that doesn't save electricity, in any way, shapre or form... so you wanted to share a really simple concept, but you do not even understand it? Don't worry though, I'd chew any out for saying something that retarded.

    REALLY? I save a Byte. That byte is stored on a drive. A whole byte is written and read less saving electricity(energy). then one byte less is stored in RAM before dispatched to all readers of these pages. A small but real amount of power is saved for not having to send and store it and to process it in each clients end. So you cant say it does not save energy!

    Addendum (2007-10-22 14:24): PS: Think of all the saved CPU cycles in all the devices that touch the data and the saved bandwidth of all the pipes... My name choice may as well in the long run save the mankind that last critical drop of oli...

  • ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered) in reply to KattMan

    The Real WTF (tm) is that he didn't sue for reverse discrimination.

  • GeekGirl (unregistered) in reply to Franz Kafka

    The terms guys and girls are not parallel in meaning. "Boys and girls" are, "guys and gals" are, "men and women" are, and "ladies and gentlemen" are. It's not a rant on sexism, I just wanted to point out that the two terms are not equal.

    I'm a female software engineer, and I was the only female CS major in my entire graduating class. That was 10 years ago, and I hear it hasn't gotten much better. So hello to all the other CS women who are posting today!

  • Some Tour Guide (unregistered)

    At my company, we're very mindful of such concerns.

    Just the other day, the boss said, "Hey Jiggles, grab a pad and back that gorgeous butt in here."

    We teased her about acting like she didn't like it.

    WOAH WOAH WOAH! Before you turn on those flame cannons: http://improvidentlackwit.com/lackwit/2003/10/remarkably_sexi.html

  • Huh?? (unregistered) in reply to Lynx
    Lynx:
    There ARE females in IT (I'm not using the term "girls" because some of them are old enough to be my mother!). Some of them are very good at it -- in many cases better than me (yes, I know that can be taken to mean I suck...).

    Personally, I do like it that way. At the risk of sounding incredibly sexist, it does give me something nice to look at, and they are interesting to talk to sometimes, and a lot of them are competent at what they do. It's a lot better than talking to a bunch of egoistic alpha males all trying to prove to each other that their manhood is one inch longer.

    And then there are those that really, really, shouldn't be in IT...

    So... some women are very good at being old enough to be your mother, and some are even better than you at being old enough to be your mother? Ok then...

    And you like readers to infer, from your comments, that you suck?

    Right... I'll be right back with a nice lady all dressed in black leather for you. She won't hurt you, much...

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to antiPC
    antiPC:
    There are exceptions, but those exceptions shouldn't prevent one from coming to a rational conclusion, on this or any other similar subject.

    And that rational conclusion is? Please do enlighten me and be specific.

  • (cs) in reply to death

    @death: are you a hardware engineer?

    "A whole byte is written and read [to a drive] less saving electricity(energy)." Data isn't read or written one byte at time. Also, typically it's guys who talk about how to balance the national debt, yet don't know how to balance their check book... seems other joined the club too!

    Also! I thought the example was saving electricity from your machine, which would have made more sense, if say, u were using a laptop. Also, on a drive, data isn't in the form of char or a byte, being that they don't have bit registers. It is read in/written to as a one though. Finally, what you don't understand on the abstract level (but you give us a lecture on abstraction... please continue though we were all taking notes!!) is that chars/bytes, and memory itself is an abstraction of the operating system, not the hardware. You can allocate 4gigs of memory, or 4 bytes of memory, same electricy. Finally, other than typing it on your keyboard, appending 5 chars to a string consumes no more electricty than having sent the original string to this website.

  • (cs)

    Girls are good to hire because they can make sammiches for the men.

  • (cs) in reply to antiPC
    antiPC:
    One of the most amazing things about modern PC society is that we refuse to acknowledge that men and women are, in general, wired differently. Our brains are different. The male brain and body work well for certain tasks, and the female brain and body work well for other tasks.

    There are exceptions, but those exceptions shouldn't prevent one from coming to a rational conclusion, on this or any other similar subject.

    Totally agree. It's equality in the congruent sense, rather than the identical sense. (Actually, congruent might be the wrong word. I don't know what the right word is.)

    Sometimes I wonder if the reason there aren't more women in programming is that most of their brains are wired such that they realize what a horrible career it really is in the long term. :)

  • (cs) in reply to death
    death:
    Addendum (2007-10-22 14:24): PS: Think of all the saved CPU cycles in all the devices that touch the data and the saved bandwidth of all the pipes... My name choice may as well in the long run save the mankind that last critical drop of oli...

    Except for the fact that it took you to write this much and so much more explaining it, thereby wasting a far greater amount of that oil then you originally saved.

    Sounds like a candidate for management. Save a penny by spending a dime.

  • Lynx (unregistered) in reply to Huh??
    Huh??:
    Right... I'll be right back with a nice lady all dressed in black leather for you. She won't hurt you, much...
    Heh, it's probably an improvement to my current status.

    You want to take things deliberately out of context, I'm fine. It's an internet "forum", we're supposed to be stupid... just don't go too far.

  • James (unregistered) in reply to j6cubic
    j6cubic:
    Tp:
    The real wtf is that all of you feel he is "sexist" If he said: "so you hired one of those guys?" he would've gotten the job. The interviewer was overcautious.
    Depends on the tone. The following sentences all have different meanings:

    "So, you hired one of those girls?" (pretty much neutral) "So you hired one of those girls?" (implying that the girl was hired because he wasn't) "So you hired one of those GIRLS?" (implying that girls can't do the job) "So you hired one of THOSE girls?" (implying that those particular girls don't seem very capable) "So you HIRED one of those girls?" (implying that women should do slave labor) "So YOU hired one of those girls?" (implying that the person you're talking to is a complete retard)

    Dammit, beaten to the punch again. I just wanted to point out that the story doesn't give enough context to call this one a WTF. Frankly, and I'm really glad I'm saying this anonymously (my wife would smack me), I've had enough experiences with women who fall into the victim culture so far that anybody calling them a "girl" (even if the male candidate was 50 and the submitter was 25) takes offense as if she were a black man in the Jim Crow south being called "boy". The victim culture has made it taboo to identify people by their visible characteristics if they're defined in a "protected class": I can say "that guy with the black hair" to distinguish him from the person standing next to him, but I can't say "that Asian guy", because skin color is a protected class.

    Besides which, I'd say that today any guy with a technical career is allowed to be surprised that he has girls/women/females as co-workers; not because he thinks they're not smart enough (that would be both sexist and stupid), but because he's capable of noticing and commenting on a trend, i.e. that a disproportionate percentage of people who study a technical track are men. In my office of ~30 people, there's 1 (!) female programmer and two or three female tech writers.

    Afterthought: I'm not saying I think this is the case, but it's entirely possible that when the submitter said she got the job "because [she] was more friendly and sociable", her boss actually meant "because I'd rather look at a hot chick all day". Just a thought.

  • (cs)

    I just wanted everyone to know that I didn't have the first post in this thread.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    As an interesting aside: the very first programmer was a women (Ada Lovelace).

  • [twisti] (unregistered)

    You'd have to be either really stupid or completely brainwashed to think that with all the physical differences, women brains and man brains would magically work the exact same identical way.

  • Robert S. Robbins (unregistered)

    Why does a developer need to be sociable? Does he need to be sociable with the computers to get them to do what he wants? I would hire on the basis of technical expertise, period.

    I see some value in social networking sites for developers and IT professionals because you can benefit from "the wisdom of the crowd". Developers need to collaborate more and build up knowledge bases using wikis and blogs. Content creation software needs syntax highlighting for source code. I have to struggle to post code in a blog or wiki.

    Im currently using IT Toolbox and the ASP.NET Weblogs community site for professional networking and knowledge sharing.

  • Maddog (unregistered)

    We have two female developers in our group of five and they are BOTH hotter than the woman in the picture. And both very smart and talented developers. A pleasure to have them as colleagues.

  • Harrow (unregistered)

    REG: ... And what have women programmers ever done?!

    COMMANDO XERXES: Assembly language?

    REG: What?

    XERXES: A woman invented assembly language.

    REG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.

    COMMANDO #3: And recursive functions.

    LORETTA: Oh, yeah, recursive functions, Reg. Remember what iteration used to be like?

    REG: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you assembly language and recursive functions are two things that women have done.

    MATTHIAS: And the compiler.

    REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the compiler. I mean, the compiler goes without saying, don't it? But apart from the assembly language, recursive functions, and the compiler--

    COMMANDO: A graphical calculator.

    XERXES: Realtime task prioritization.

    COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh...

    COMMANDO #2: Algebraic expression solver.

    COMMANDOS: Ohh...

    REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.

    COMMANDO #1: And the subroutine.

    COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah...

    FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Reg, if women hadn't invented it. Huh.

    COMMANDO: A woman programmed the mercury and apollo trajectories.

    LORETTA: And they coded for the ENIAC, Reg.

    FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to program a mainframe. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in those days.

    COMMANDOS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.

    REG: All right, but apart from assembly language, recursive functions, the compiler, a graphical calculator, realtime task prioritization, the algebraic expression solver, the subroutine, those spaceship trajectories, and all the code for the ENIAC, what have women programmers ever done?

    XERXES: Invented COBOL.

    REG: Oh. COBOL? Shut up!

    -- from Monty Python's Life of Babbage

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