A Bit Off Kilter

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  • Paul A. Bean 2009-12-08 09:04
    Have you got my comment yet? Well, have you? C'mon, don't leave me hangin' bud, respond! I'm frist and all, but still, gimme some credit! Hello? Are you there?
  • Fubar 2009-12-08 09:05
    Hmmm, I'm sure my Ex had a stalker that said pretty much the same thing to her :/
  • Jayman 2009-12-08 09:05
    Wow. Slightly psychotic boss. Considering how much I value my personal time, I don't think I could have handled it as well as (or as long as) Victor...
  • Mike Caron 2009-12-08 09:06
    hey u there
  • Fred 2009-12-08 09:07
    John is insecure and has abandonment issues.
  • RBoy 2009-12-08 09:07
    Paul A. Bean:
    Have you got my comment yet? Well, have you? C'mon, don't leave me hangin' bud, respond! I'm frist and all, but still, gimme some credit! Hello? Are you there?


    Let me know b4 you post frist, k?
  • Paul A. Bean 2009-12-08 09:07
    No.
  • Mike Caron 2009-12-08 09:08
    did u run awy??????
  • highphilosopher 2009-12-08 09:09
    It may sound funny for a boss to worry about someone disappearing, but my first job was to replace the developer of a web based company that went to lunch one day, and didn't come back. He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore". I lasted there for 3 1/2 years before I had the same response. At least I put in two weeks though!

    Captcha: Populus - Combination of popping a number off a stack and adding to it.
  • anon 2009-12-08 09:14
    have u finished writing ur comment???
  • Procedural 2009-12-08 09:16
    Come back tomorrow, 'k ? There'll be another article. Don't forget !
  • ConstantLurker 2009-12-08 09:19
    uhm... check in tomorrow again k??
  • Anon 2009-12-08 09:28
    TRWTF is that there are people who think abbreviating text messages that way is acceptable.

    Seriously, "ure"?
  • Procedural 2009-12-08 09:28
    Fubar:
    Hmmm, I'm sure my Ex had a stalker that said pretty much the same thing to her :/


    Sounds like you would personally know about that !
  • toth 2009-12-08 09:30
    Fubar:
    Hmmm, I'm sure my Ex had a stalker that said pretty much the same thing to her :/


    Would that be you, by any chance?
  • Anon 2009-12-08 09:31
    The lesson for today is to not give you boss your cell phone number.
  • Some Guy 2009-12-08 09:31
    Procedural:
    Fubar:
    Hmmm, I'm sure my Ex had a stalker that said pretty much the same thing to her :/


    Sounds like you would personally know about that !


    Pwned :-P
  • Steenbergh 2009-12-08 09:33
    So I take it the phone used for all this texting was provided by the boss?
  • acc 2009-12-08 09:37
    ssssseee
  • akatherder 2009-12-08 09:37
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.
  • Dan 2009-12-08 09:39
    while reading i kept visualizing John as Rhys Darby both in Flight of the Conchords and Yes Men
  • Spoe 2009-12-08 09:42
    And he ran.
    He ran so far away.
    He just ran.
    He ran all night and day.
    He couldn't get away.
  • Sounds Familiar 2009-12-08 09:44
    I worked for UK2.NET ... they were very much like that.

    Actually it's a story worthy of a WTF article ... endless phone calls every few hours with less than 5 hours solid sleep between them at most (at the weekend) but no on call allowance, being told that all the (GPL'd) software I had written up to that point now belonged to the company, booting dozens of servers (with tends of thousands of customers on them each) all from floppy disk because the guy who set it up didn't know how to install LILO/GRUB....

    Beneath the slick exterior sales website was a big pile of badly mangled crazy.
  • OMG 2009-12-08 09:44
    You're going to have to make some adjustments to your home life to accommodate TDWTF.
  • Anonymouse 2009-12-08 09:46
    If my boss asked me to "restructure my home time to accommodate the company" I'd ask him to "restructure my pay to accommodate the extra 16 hours a day I'll be working".
  • Paul A. Bean 2009-12-08 09:50
    akatherder:
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.


    It isn't fair to ask a question you know you won't get an honest answer to. "Fair" would be to state your exact feelings about out-of-hours availability, and request that they take that into consideration before making you an offer. Fairness and a hard close into the bargain. Win!
  • @Deprecated 2009-12-08 09:53
    I need a LOT of sleep so that I can be at my very best for increased productivity at work! So, I will be 'checking out' at 6pm every night!

    Man that is a whole bag of crazy.
  • onk 2009-12-08 09:59
    what are you dooooing?


    Maybe that boss is Canadian?
  • Tom Woolf 2009-12-08 10:00
    ... my gosh - that song is a quarter of a century old, and that is the frist time I heard or saw a reference to it where I did not feel nauseous.
  • Niels 2009-12-08 10:12
    So it sounds like the boss may have had some kind of OCD and should probably consult a psychiatrist. TRWTF was that nobody gently nudged the boss in that direction.
  • Anonymously Yours 2009-12-08 10:15
    Were I in his position, I would probably have changed my text message alert noise to a rotation of quotes from the turrets in Portal.
  • javabeats 2009-12-08 10:16
    I'm stupefied O.O

    Maybe my job ain't so bad, after all.
  • justsomedude 2009-12-08 10:25
    Bah, just make the company pay for the cell/txt service and script his questions over to iGOD for responses.
  • Dave Rodenbaugh 2009-12-08 10:28
    Sounds more like Cardassian to me. Ugh.
  • akatherder 2009-12-08 10:32
    Paul A. Bean:
    akatherder:
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.


    It isn't fair to ask a question you know you won't get an honest answer to. "Fair" would be to state your exact feelings about out-of-hours availability, and request that they take that into consideration before making you an offer. Fairness and a hard close into the bargain. Win!


    Right, because they are legally bound to everything they tell you in the interview. That's so cute :P
  • Sindri 2009-12-08 10:47
    To be fair, that boss does have good reason to worry that his staff will do a runner at lunch (I might have done just that).
  • toshir0 2009-12-08 10:48
    “We really value communication here, and you’ll need to restructure some of your home time to accommodate the needs of the company.”


    Immediate conclusion if I once hear a sentence like the one quoted above : "This person is my former employer".

    I'm just stunned.
    I can't imagine if i'd have laughed or cried... is this story real ? My sanity begs that it's a fake.
  • mbvlist 2009-12-08 10:58
    Sounds like somebody really needs to know he has Asperger :X
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 11:00
    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc) and expects me to be around at all times, working during the day AND be up from 10pm onward to communicate with the Indian team he's outsourcing all the programming to. I get to work from home so that's kinda good, but it's not worth the hassle.

    People like this should be run out of business.
  • Anonymous 2009-12-08 11:03
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 11:04
    Sindri:
    To be fair, that boss does have good reason to worry that his staff will do a runner at lunch (I might have done just that).


    Given the story, it sounds like his staff SHOULD be taking lunch and never coming back.
  • Berislav 2009-12-08 11:08
    Oh dear, a FoS reference! Now I'll never get it out of my head...
  • Quietust 2009-12-08 11:19
    If you're getting the feeling that you've read this story before, you're probably remembering this "Side Bar" WTF from last year, "World's most clingy boss".
  • dkf 2009-12-08 11:24
    Anon:
    Seriously, "ure"?
    It's a river.
  • Bruce W 2009-12-08 11:26
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.


    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
  • RHuckster 2009-12-08 11:29
    Anonymously Yours:
    Were I in his position, I would probably have changed my text message alert noise to a rotation of quotes from the turrets in Portal.


    WIN
  • Shon 2009-12-08 11:40
    This story sounds terribly familiar.

    I worked at a company once and build a certain web app.
    Because it was only temporary I informed my replacement of all the things to do and all the ins and outs of the app.
    I even made him take notes for step-by-step instructions on how to put it in production.
    Just in case he had any questions or problems I gave him my number so he could call me.

    About a week later I got a call: how to fix a certain issue... for a totally different web app.
    Granted, I worked with that other app, but not anymore. It is supposed to be his job.
    Couple of days later I get another call: how to add a certain feature... which I already explained to him step by step and made him write down.
    I left there 2 months ago, yet he still calls once every week. If I don't respond, every day after that.

    I pretty much still work there, but am not getting paid.
  • Flexible Worker 2009-12-08 11:40
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.


    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.


    QFT. The company I work at has a great working environment, and is very flexible about working hours. If I want a long lunch, I just stay out for a long lunch. If I need a day off, I simply declare that I am taking the day off; technically there is an "approval process", but I've never heard of one such request ever being denied in the history of the company.

    Likewise, if they call me up on a Sunday morning because the e-mail server isn't working correctly, then I'll spend the hour or two to set it right. It's give and take. I don't track it to the minute, but I am happy with the balance.

    That said, if a company wants to be a dick about coming in to work at precisely X AM and leaving no earlier than Y PM and taking no more than Z minutes for lunch, then outside of work hours (or during the Z minutes for lunch), they can fuck straight the hell off.

    "Professional courtesy goes both ways." True dat.
  • Anonymous 2009-12-08 11:51
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.
  • IT Girl 2009-12-08 11:58
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.


    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.


    I'm guessing those that are drawing the line, haven't been in IT very long. Must of us see some kind of overtime/pager pay/lieu time/whatever to compensate for the fact that when you're needed, you're needed. My blackberry is provided by the company and I get paid to have it on. Mind you it still gets turned off when I'm on my time, but it's pretty easy to gauge when it's "safe" to be incomunicado and when it's not a good idea to be unreachable.
  • Paul A. Bean 2009-12-08 12:05
    akatherder:
    Paul A. Bean:
    akatherder:
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.


    It isn't fair to ask a question you know you won't get an honest answer to. "Fair" would be to state your exact feelings about out-of-hours availability, and request that they take that into consideration before making you an offer. Fairness and a hard close into the bargain. Win!


    Right, because they are legally bound to everything they tell you in the interview. That's so cute :P


    No, they're not. That's why I didn't say "ask them if it's a problem, in the interview". It just means that should they offer you a job, and then moan that you're not doing enough out-of-hours work, you've got some semblance of a comeback.
  • John C. Random 2009-12-08 12:09
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 12:13
    Shon:
    This story sounds terribly familiar.

    I worked at a company once and build a certain web app.
    Because it was only temporary I informed my replacement of all the things to do and all the ins and outs of the app.
    I even made him take notes for step-by-step instructions on how to put it in production.
    Just in case he had any questions or problems I gave him my number so he could call me.

    About a week later I got a call: how to fix a certain issue... for a totally different web app.
    Granted, I worked with that other app, but not anymore. It is supposed to be his job.
    Couple of days later I get another call: how to add a certain feature... which I already explained to him step by step and made him write down.
    I left there 2 months ago, yet he still calls once every week. If I don't respond, every day after that.

    I pretty much still work there, but am not getting paid.


    That's when you contact your old boss and inform him that your replacement is doing this. You then say you'd be willing to continue doing this for $X/hour. Either you end up getting paid for it, or the idiot who replaced you gets shitcanned.
  • John 2009-12-08 12:23
    re: I pretty much still work there, but am not getting paid.

    Umm. It's called call display. Don't pick it up if the d-bag calls.
  • morry 2009-12-08 12:29
    I hate to perpetuate memes, but THIS.

    I had a ex-collegue that did the same thing. After about 3 phone calls I half-jokingly asked him what the project number was and who the PM was, so I could bill the company for my time. The phone calls stopped after that.

    You can deal directly with your replacement and let him know it's no longer appropriate, or, if you're really pissed, go back to his boss. But don't let him walk all over you anymore.
  • Steve-O 2009-12-08 12:32
    My current boss was like that when I started working here (more the stopping by the office than the texting, but there were a number of after-hours calls). I told him that I work faster when I'm left alone for long periods of time, and said "no seriously, leave me alone". He did.

    See how complicated that is? I don't get how most people just don't speak their mind about things.
  • Anonymous 2009-12-08 12:35
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.

    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).
  • sadwings 2009-12-08 12:44
    Assholes are bearable, Prima Donnas are intolerable...

    You're just a Prima Donna, get over yourself.
  • WhiskeyJack 2009-12-08 12:54
    I agree with the "professional courtesy goes both ways" statement, despite the opinionated ramblings of some previous posters.

    I have my home number, cell number, and personal email address written in the top corner of the whiteboard in my office, specifically so that if there is ever TRULY an emergency, people know how to reach me. Thus far it has never happened.
  • Bart 2009-12-08 12:57
    Please do not run. Come back and we will have cake.
  • Charlie 2009-12-08 12:59
    Sounds Familiar:
    Beneath the slick exterior sales website was a big pile of badly mangled crazy.

    I find a fairly reliable correlation... the slicker the marketing crap (especially the website) the less real knowledge exists anywhere in the company.

    {post attempt 2... 3...}
  • Jayman 2009-12-08 13:02
    I was perfectly content to provide any aid necessary at my current place of employment. I worked a couple 4:30 am to 1:30 pm shifts so that I could migrate changes to some of our more important web apps while no one was in using them. Then, one day, I got pulled aside and told that, even though I had come in at 4:30 am and had put in a full 8 hours, I would have to take 2.5 hours of vacation time in order to work that shift. This was due to the fact that I was leaving before my scheduled 4:00 pm end time.

    Since then? The apps have gone down during the day when I need to do a maintenance release. They pull stupid stunts on me? I don't help them out as much as I used to...
  • shadowman 2009-12-08 13:12
    John:
    re: I pretty much still work there, but am not getting paid.

    Umm. It's called call display. Don't pick it up if the d-bag calls.


    Or, grow some balls and just tell the guy not to call you with his problems anymore, since he's gotten more than enough help already and you don't work for free.
  • AdT 2009-12-08 13:19
    dkf:
    It's a river.


    I love Uranus. It's a planet, I swear!
  • Des 2009-12-08 13:25
    Last thing I remember
    I was running for the door
    I had to find the passage back
    To the place I was before

    Good night, said the night-man
    We are programmed to receive
    You can checkout any time you like
    But you can never leave
  • Blue Collar 2009-12-08 13:40
    onk:
    what are you dooooing?


    Maybe that boss is Canadian?


    Hey, I take offence to that eh!? Its aboot time you learned the truth aboot canadians EH!

    ObiWayneKenobi:

    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc) and expects me to be around at all times, working during the day AND be up from 10pm onward to communicate with the Indian team he's outsourcing all the programming to. I get to work from home so that's kinda good, but it's not worth the hassle.

    People like this should be run out of business.


    Outsourcing software development to india... I have heard thats a good way to get "Run out of business"
  • emh 2009-12-08 13:46
    [quote user="Blue Collar"][quote user="onk"]
    what are you dooooing?


    Maybe that boss is Canadian?[/quote]

    Hey, I take offence to that eh!? Its aboot time you learned the truth aboot canadians EH!

    I think that's a reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DkIk2NKEHs
  • Bubba 2009-12-08 14:07
    John's obituary will read - "Victim of a senseless office shooting"

    The police will never be able to figure out why there are multiple caliber wounds, with some inflicted post mortem.


    Captcha - illum - a Beastie Boy singular?
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 14:07
    Blue Collar:

    Outsourcing software development to india... I have heard thats a good way to get "Run out of business"


    I effing hope so. Seriously this guy's entire business model for his five or six different businesses that he has going on the same time is this:

    1. Get a couple of people who like your "great idea"
    2. Outsource all the real work to India because it's cheaper.
    3. Demand that three-week long releases be condensed to weekly iterations because "the business requires it"
    4. Sell, sell, sell your idea to everyone as being an amazing thing that's going to change the world
    5. Never plan on expanding beyond your 5-6 people, excluding outsourced programmers and marketing firms
    6. Profit!
  • lolwtf 2009-12-08 14:12
    Sounds like the boss has Tourette's, ADHD, or possibly severe AS. Yes, you can have Tourette's without swearing every 5 seconds.
    Spoe:
    And he ran.
    He ran so far away.
    He just ran.
    He ran all night and day.
    He couldn't get away.
    Just what I was thinking.
  • Mason Wheeler 2009-12-08 14:20
    Bart:
    Please do not run. Come back and we will have cake.

    The cake is a lie!
  • Bubba 2009-12-08 14:23
    It puts the lotion on its skin
  • Complete Moron 2009-12-08 14:27
    Charlie:
    Sounds Familiar:
    Beneath the slick exterior sales website was a big pile of badly mangled crazy.

    I find a fairly reliable correlation... the slicker the marketing crap (especially the website) the less real knowledge exists anywhere in the company.

    {post attempt 2... 3...}


    +1. Snake oil has to have really great marketing, otherwise, what is it?
  • Miguel 2009-12-08 14:31
    I'm a bit sick of hearing about the experiences of people in their first job.

    Maybe the IT industry should get rid of the concept of 'first job'.

    I've rarely heard a story (on here) about someone who had such trouble in their second or third job, so maybe Grads should be taught to skip the first job and settle straight into the second.
  • aptent 2009-12-08 14:39
    Anonymously Yours:
    Were I in his position, I would probably have changed my text message alert noise to a rotation of quotes from the turrets in Portal.
    Delicious!!
  • Heron 2009-12-08 14:40
    Re: running away, a former employer had an accountant who left during lunch and didn't come back. Left half-finished papers on the desk.

    The company owner ran into the accountant at some restaurant several months later. Awkward.

    Re: cell phone calls, I told my previous employer when I left that I'd help out with things for a little while. Six months later I was still getting calls, so finally I just told him I'd have to bill for any further consulting. Haven't gotten a call since.
  • JohnB 2009-12-08 14:55
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number.<snip>

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. <snip>
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. <snip>

    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.
    You say that as if it's a bad thing.
  • Charlie 2009-12-08 14:58
    I worked with someone who strutted around as if she had invented the entire network, but whenever anything went wrong, she had to call her assistant who left a year and a half before.

    I don't know which was worse: that she had the nerve to make the call, or that he kept giving up half-days to remote in and install server patches for her, long after he had gone.

    Oh and let's not even talk about leaving an active account for a former employee, or letting said helper sudo to root and fiddle with your firewall configuration.
  • WhiskeyJack 2009-12-08 15:13
    Miguel:
    I've rarely heard a story (on here) about someone who had such trouble in their second or third job, so maybe Grads should be taught to skip the first job and settle straight into the second.


    That's a great idea!

    I've also heard that 75% of all car accidents happen within 5 miles from home. Why doesn't everyone just move 10 miles away?
  • mh 2009-12-08 15:24
    Charlie:
    I worked with someone who strutted around as if she had invented the entire network, but whenever anything went wrong, she had to call her assistant who left a year and a half before.

    I don't know which was worse: that she had the nerve to make the call, or that he kept giving up half-days to remote in and install server patches for her, long after he had gone.

    Oh and let's not even talk about leaving an active account for a former employee, or letting said helper sudo to root and fiddle with your firewall configuration.

    Sounds like her firewall config wasn't the only thing he was fiddling with!
  • Anonymous Coward 2009-12-08 15:31
    mh:
    Charlie:
    I worked with someone who strutted around as if she had invented the entire network, but whenever anything went wrong, she had to call her assistant who left a year and a half before.

    I don't know which was worse: that she had the nerve to make the call, or that he kept giving up half-days to remote in and install server patches for her, long after he had gone.

    Oh and let's not even talk about leaving an active account for a former employee, or letting said helper sudo to root and fiddle with your firewall configuration.

    Sounds like her firewall config wasn't the only thing he was fiddling with!


    Tiger used to work in IT?
  • Anonymously Yours 2009-12-08 15:37
    JohnB:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number.<snip>

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. <snip>
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. <snip>

    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.
    You say that as if it's a bad thing.
    It really boils down to: should you value your company? If you want to have a career there, they have profit sharing, this is [financially] recognized as going above and beyond, or you want to try to keep your coworkers employed, there's a solid argument for being on-call. On the other hand, if it's just a job to you, they routinely lay off people to "cut costs," you're unappreciated, or you're enabling repeated management/sales stupidity, there's a solid argument for telling them to go to hell.

    I kind of see this quote pyramid as an argument that lacks the context to make either person right. If Anonymous has been treated like expendable shit and is an asshole right back, good for him. If he's taking a good company for granted, he's a jackass who's making everything worse for those around him. If Bruce W believes keeping people from getting laid off because a disaster happens after work hours, good for him too. If he's protecting management/sales from punishment for their stupidity or bending over backwards to make their over-promising possible, he's an idiot who's making everything worse for those around him.

    Context is everything where people are involved. Even the un-snipped arguments didn't put in situational qualifiers.
  • Yes Indeed 2009-12-08 15:59
    Sounds Familiar:
    I worked for UK2.NET ... they were very much like that.

    [...]

    Beneath the slick exterior sales website was a big pile of badly mangled crazy.


    Trust me when I say that that hasn't managed to have gone unnoticed by some of their (former) customers. ;)
  • Laughing Jack 2009-12-08 17:22
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.

    He doesn't care about making other men rich. You know what we call that don't you? That's right, Socialism.
  • aptent 2009-12-08 17:43
    Anonymous:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.

    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).
    No results found for perogative:

    Did you mean prerogative?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perogative

    you're not an asshole, you're a douche.

  • Buzzard 2009-12-08 18:47
    [quote user="AnonymousI've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.[/quote]


    agree with you 100%
  • Crimson King 2009-12-08 18:48
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    People like this should be run out of business.


    It's been my experience that people like this really don't need any help going out of business.
  • RealWorld 2009-12-08 19:08
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.


    Yeah, but we can't all be Starbucks Baristas.

  • Career Path 2009-12-08 19:17
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.
  • Sylver 2009-12-08 20:05
    The real WTF is that no one even considered fixing the boss. All considering, the job was fine & interesting, the pay was good and the only problem was a needy boss.

    Instead of "enduring", why not simply take the boss aside and explain exactly where you draw the line?

    Absolute worst case scenario, he fires you (unlikely if he is needy, but what do you care if you wanted out?), but most likely, he will simply back off. "Look, you are a great guy and all, but I have issues with micromanagement and personal space, so I would really appreciate if you could give me some space..."

    Most likely, that would have worked.
  • 2twisted 2009-12-08 20:16
    Bubba:
    It puts the lotion on its skin

    ...and rubs the lotion into the skin...
  • Jim Steichen 2009-12-08 20:21
    Don't run, we are your friendz...
  • Laughing Jack 2009-12-08 20:38
    Career Path:
    Anonymous:
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.

    Ahhh, the willing slave, brass ring clenched firmly between his teeth. He will triumph over lesser men by virture of his superior qualities, and climb that ladder to corporate success. It's the American Way.

    I've got $5 on peptic ulcer. Anybody want to put $5 on mental breakdown?
  • ContraCorners 2009-12-08 21:23
    Des:
    Last thing I remember
    I was running for the door
    I had to find the passage back
    To the place I was before

    Good night, said the night-man
    We are programmed to receive
    You can checkout any time you like
    But you can never leave


    Someone probably did this already, but

    Relax said the night-man...

    (second try)
  • Watson 2009-12-08 21:36
    Dan:
    while reading i kept visualizing John as Rhys Darby both in Flight of the Conchords and Yes Men


    "Victor C ... present."
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 22:08
    Crimson King:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    People like this should be run out of business.


    It's been my experience that people like this really don't need any help going out of business.


    Unfortunately from my experience (roughly 6-7 times working for similar companies... not as bad as the guy in this story though) these companies usually stay in business :(
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-08 22:11
    Career Path:
    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.


    People like you should never be promoted to management. You're the kind of scumbag who thinks that your employees should drop whatever they do for the "good of the company". well you know what? FUCK THE COMPANY. There is NO circumstance, EVER, where a JOB is more important than someone's life. EVER. If your precious server is down at 2am, then guess what? It will still be down at 9am when the server admin comes into work.

    A job exists to allow you to live. Your life does not, and never should, revolve around making someone else rich.
  • PeriSoft 2009-12-08 23:45
    ObiWayneKenobi:

    FUCK THE COMPANY... A job exists to allow you to live.


    I'm guessing from your handle that you're at least somewhat of a Star Wars fan. Do you think that the guys who worked on those movies feel the way you do about their work?

    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?

    Yikes...
  • Arenlor 2009-12-09 00:19
    Fuck off you jackass. Just because someone is crazy doesn't mean they have Asperger's, we are rather normal you know.
  • Nick 2009-12-09 00:29
    highphilosopher:
    It may sound funny for a boss to worry about someone disappearing, but my first job was to replace the developer of a web based company that went to lunch one day, and didn't come back. He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore". I lasted there for 3 1/2 years before I had the same response. At least I put in two weeks though!
    One of our devs just didn't show up for work one day, he stopped getting paid about 2 weeks later. That was 2 years ago, we still have no idea what happened to him, no answer on his phone or email.
  • Nick 2009-12-09 00:31
    akatherder:
    Paul A. Bean:
    akatherder:
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.
    It isn't fair to ask a question you know you won't get an honest answer to. "Fair" would be to state your exact feelings about out-of-hours availability, and request that they take that into consideration before making you an offer. Fairness and a hard close into the bargain. Win!
    Right, because they are legally bound to everything they tell you in the interview. That's so cute :P
    This is the kind of thing that should be in your contract.
  • Chewbacca 2009-12-09 00:47
    Anonymous:

    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).


    Simon?! Is that you?
  • Spyros 2009-12-09 02:23
    It may sound funny for a boss to worry about someone disappearing, but my first job was to replace the developer of a web based company that went to lunch one day, and didn't come back. He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore".

    In a previous job, on the third day a programmer left for lunch and never came back. Two days later his mother called the HR director to inform him that her son was not coming back, because he felt that the guy were making fun of him.
  • MM 2009-12-09 03:19
    I'd even go as far as 'borderline personality disorder'
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 03:25
    JohnB:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number.<snip>

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. <snip>
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. <snip>

    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.
    You say that as if it's a bad thing.


    No, not especially. Just hoping the guy doesn't take his "they need me more than I need them" schtick too literally, because sooner or later it won't be true. It probably already isn't true, but the hassle of replacing him isn't worth it at the moment.
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 03:31
    WhiskeyJack:
    Miguel:
    I've rarely heard a story (on here) about someone who had such trouble in their second or third job, so maybe Grads should be taught to skip the first job and settle straight into the second.


    That's a great idea!

    I've also heard that 75% of all car accidents happen within 5 miles from home. Why doesn't everyone just move 10 miles away?


    Duh! Because nobody knows if they're in the 25% band or the 75% band!
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 03:36
    Career Path:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.


    Meh. I did actually, genuinely cause a company to fold simply by leaving. They were in trouble anyway, of course, but their one skilled - meaning literally the only person who could operate their production machines - worker leaving pushed them over the edge. But I digress. I think maybe people are being too harsh on old Anon here. There's definitely room in the industry for his attitude. He's not doing himself any favours career-wise, of course, but not everybody needs to. Companies that depend on their staff working extended hours, they've got problems. Companies should be able to accommodate a 9-5 mentality.
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 03:40
    Laughing Jack:
    Career Path:
    Anonymous:
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.

    Ahhh, the willing slave, brass ring clenched firmly between his teeth. He will triumph over lesser men by virture of his superior qualities, and climb that ladder to corporate success. It's the American Way.

    I've got $5 on peptic ulcer. Anybody want to put $5 on mental breakdown?


    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 03:42
    TRWTF is why he didn't change his phone number to a premium rate one, and coin in on this endless chit-chat. As regards the "9-5 vs available all hours" argument, it's a bit of a red herring isn't it? It's one thing to be available for when the shit hits the fan out of hours, but our hero in the story is just required to be available for pointless status updates and to be a comfort blanket to his boss. Only an idiot would really buy into that.
  • similis 2009-12-09 07:37
    emh:
    Blue Collar:
    onk:
    what are you dooooing?


    Maybe that boss is Canadian?


    Hey, I take offence to that eh!? Its aboot time you learned the truth aboot canadians EH!


    I think that's a reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DkIk2NKEHs


    More like reference to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0USDWX3X5E

    I would've provided a proper link but some idiot has misconfigured their spam filter.
  • Peter 2009-12-09 08:28
    John C. Random:

    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.


    Bacterial.
  • dkf 2009-12-09 08:34
    PeriSoft:
    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?
    If your employer treats you like shit, why would you put yourself out for them beyond what is exactly stated in your contract? Of course, if they treat you well then that's different. But there's no sense in being nice to a douchebag set of bosses. Life's just too short for that sort of thing, and in fact as it causes stress and depresses your immune system, it might well even be life-shortening.
  • I'm not a shrink, but I play one on Second Life.... 2009-12-09 08:36
    I'm guessing the boss had AssBurgers Syndrome.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-09 08:45
    PeriSoft:
    ObiWayneKenobi:

    FUCK THE COMPANY... A job exists to allow you to live.


    I'm guessing from your handle that you're at least somewhat of a Star Wars fan. Do you think that the guys who worked on those movies feel the way you do about their work?

    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?

    Yikes...


    No, but I've worked for (and currently work for) far too many people who think that it's okay to take advantage of the fact that you enjoy your job and use that as an excuse to get you to work what amounts to 24-7 for them. There's nothing wrong with enjoying your job and be willing to go the extra mile sometimes. It's another thing entirely, whether you enjoy your job or not, to be expected to go the extra mile at all times, no matter what other things you may have planned. When I can't hang out with my friends, visit my family or plan a night out with my girlfriend because there's a chance my boss might phone me with some "emergency" issue that he expects me to stop whatever I'm doing and fix right away, because he's too fucking cheap to hire additional talent but wants to keep costs down but have 125% productivity, then there's a problem.
  • Swa 2009-12-09 09:16
    I currently work for a small company, and pretty much run everything IT related, both local and in the datacenter. I'm on call 24/7, but don't even have a company cellphone. I get called, I rarely call others work related.

    That's all fine & dandy for now. It's been like that for 2 years now. I don't mind, as long as I can see clear advancement in my position. Even if that advancement is just a feeling of entitlement and periodic bumps in 'rank' coupled to a tiny raise.

    This however will cease in about, let's say 3 more years. Then I'll more on and go somewhere more balanced and cash in on my experience. Being the only guy around that has a clue about how everything works is quite a burden (on your private life as well), but at the same time it's a great opportunity to gather experience at a rate that you wouldn't think possible.

    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble. Until then, I'm content to work my ass off and put down the building blocks of a good career by going for experience, rather than pay grade and fancy cars.

    Captcha: dolor: how I feel about extended work hours.
  • John C. Random 2009-12-09 09:27
    Peter:
    John C. Random:

    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.


    Bacterial.


    Yes, you're right. Thanks.
  • Andrea 2009-12-09 10:13
    Bart:
    Please do not run. Come back and we will have cake.


    The cake is a lie!
  • Patrick 2009-12-09 10:20
    Wow. At my company, we have a simple rule: when we're not in the office, we're not working.
  • Patrick 2009-12-09 10:32
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    When I can't hang out with my friends, visit my family or plan a night out with my girlfriend because there's a chance my boss might phone me with some "emergency" issue that he expects me to stop whatever I'm doing and fix right away, because he's too fucking cheap to hire additional talent but wants to keep costs down but have 125% productivity, then there's a problem.


    There's a word for requests like that. It has two letters. Say it with me: "No". Unless there's some problem that is actively losing money for the company, when you're off the clock, you're off the clock. End of story. Grow a spine and make the decision to help only if you want to.

    Captcha: sagaciter. he cites sagas.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-09 11:07
    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14):
    Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.
  • Indian Developer 2009-12-09 11:22
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Blue Collar:

    Outsourcing software development to india... I have heard thats a good way to get "Run out of business"


    2. Outsource all the real work to India because it's cheaper.


    As much as I am hurt and hate to admin this, I have the feeling of working as a cheap labor on these projects.
    I had no background in IT, was trained for a couple of months and then made to work on projects.
    Though I now try to produce less of crap.
  • WhiskeyJack 2009-12-09 11:39
    I'm reading all these posts and thinking that I must be lucky. As I said before, my home contact info is posted in my office and coworkers are invited to call me anytime if there is ever a TRUE emergency that needs my attention. This has yet to happen -- coworkers (and my boss) respect that if I'm not in, I'm not in. I have on occasion been asked to work strange hours to facilitate something or other -- again, the keyword is occasionally -- and I have no problem with this.

    At the beginning of course nobody asked me to do anything because I was the new kid who knew nothing, but over the years I have begun to be "that guy" that you call over who knows how to do whatever. I think becoming "indispensable" (again, within reason) is a good thing for job security.

    Should odd working hours and interruptions ever become more than "occasional" then my response would be to have a polite discussion with my boss over my job description, not bitch and moan about how much I hate the world. I enjoy my job, I support the work my company does, and as such I'm sure I could work something out.
  • aptent 2009-12-09 15:37
    WhiskeyJack:
    I'm reading all these posts and thinking that I must be lucky. As I said before, my home contact info is posted in my office and coworkers are invited to call me anytime if there is ever a TRUE emergency that needs my attention. This has yet to happen -- coworkers (and my boss) respect that if I'm not in, I'm not in. I have on occasion been asked to work strange hours to facilitate something or other -- again, the keyword is occasionally -- and I have no problem with this.

    At the beginning of course nobody asked me to do anything because I was the new kid who knew nothing, but over the years I have begun to be "that guy" that you call over who knows how to do whatever. I think becoming "indispensable" (again, within reason) is a good thing for job security.

    Should odd working hours and interruptions ever become more than "occasional" then my response would be to have a polite discussion with my boss over my job description, not bitch and moan about how much I hate the world. I enjoy my job, I support the work my company does, and as such I'm sure I could work something out.
    TRWTF is that there is actually an adult in the comments... :D
  • Career Path 2009-12-09 15:39
    You should re-read my message, then get yourself a new job. You clearly hate the one you currently have.

    No where do I say you have to let the company take advantage of you, only that the person's attitude is the problem. It's a matter of professionalism and doing what's best for everyone. I want my company to succeed, because when they succeed I have a reasonable expectation for reward. As such, if a server I'm responsible for goes down at 2am and it's my job to fix it, I'll do my best to fix it. Likewise, if I've spent 5 hours working in the middle of the night, I'm certainly going to take those five hours by coming in late, or leaving early one day. Professional give and take--it goes both ways.

    If all you care about is being a clock-puncher, then fine. There are plenty of jobs like that--just not many of them in IT.
  • ping floyd 2009-12-09 16:49
    Anonymous Coward:
    mh:
    Charlie:
    I worked with someone who strutted around as if she had invented the entire network, but whenever anything went wrong, she had to call her assistant who left a year and a half before.

    I don't know which was worse: that she had the nerve to make the call, or that he kept giving up half-days to remote in and install server patches for her, long after he had gone.

    Oh and let's not even talk about leaving an active account for a former employee, or letting said helper sudo to root and fiddle with your firewall configuration.

    Sounds like her firewall config wasn't the only thing he was fiddling with!


    Tiger used to work in IT?


    Sure, haven't you ever heard of Tiger Direct?
  • ping floyd 2009-12-09 17:02
    John C. Random:
    Laughing Jack:
    Ahhh, the willing slave, brass ring clenched firmly between his teeth. He will triumph over lesser men by virture of his superior qualities, and climb that ladder to corporate success. It's the American Way.

    I've got $5 on peptic ulcer. Anybody want to put $5 on mental breakdown?


    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.


    Yeah, but if you go around licking brass rings, you're liable to run into viruses and bacteria.
  • Willicueva 2009-12-09 17:07
    You need to set his number to be rejected on your cell. Otherwise, have him/them start paying consulting fees.
  • Salami 2009-12-09 18:59
    WhiskeyJack:
    I agree with the "professional courtesy goes both ways" statement, despite the opinionated ramblings of some previous posters.

    I have my home number, cell number, and personal email address written in the top corner of the whiteboard in my office, specifically so that if there is ever TRULY an emergency, people know how to reach me. Thus far it has never happened.


    Did anyone sign you up for spam emails?
  • Bender Rodriguez 2009-12-09 20:35
    How does a nutbar like that get to be a CEO? What a stupid world we live in.
  • ObiWayneKenobi 2009-12-09 20:52
    Bender Rodriguez:
    How does a nutbar like that get to be a CEO? What a stupid world we live in.


    Sadly all it takes to be CEO is to have enough money to found a company and then hire people. You would be surprised how many idiots are CEOs or business owners.
  • SQLDave 2009-12-09 22:31
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc).

    People like this should be run out of business.


    I agree. It was back in 1906, or maybe 1907.. can't recall which.. it just before Windows 1 or 2 came out. I worked for a startup publishing company and we had just purchased some rudimentary desktop publishing software (Ventura Publisher anyone?). One Saturday shortly thereafter the owner/boss calls me into the office because (I swear it's true and to this day I wonder what mind control drugs he had been slipping to me) his mouse was not working correctly.

    Fortunately, it was a short drive. When I arrived, he was holding the mouse rotated 90 degrees to the left (working the left button with his thumb and the right button with his forefinger... no scrollwheels in those days). He couldn't figure out why the cursor movements didn't correspond with his mouse movements.

    The endorphins released into my system from laughing all the way home made the interruption worth it.

  • Peter 2009-12-09 23:20
    Bruce W:
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.


    I wouldn't put it in the camp of "How long have you worked in IT?". You're mixing up low level utility providers (IT's future) with other IT functions. What I mean is that there's a difference between the monkeys that keep things online versus the folks that then utilize those services to better serve the business. It's a blurry line that's making distinctions in IT nowadays.

    For me, I'm both a developer and a liaison with the business. So I have nothing to do with maintaining server up time. Our servers are maintained by the server time. They're just a utility to us. So if I were ever bothered by calls to my personal cell at odd hours over a server failure, management and I would be having a very serious discussion the next day.

  • Li 2009-12-09 23:40
    Swa:
    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble.


    I'm sorry, but the Coke just came flying out of my nose during my hysterical laughter at that comment. It really amazes me, the resilience of Americans. Yes, the country has rebounded from so much. But even the Mighty Rome fell. As did the Egyptians (except in that case it was the Aliens who built their empire, then took it away).

    My, how badly America needs to be taught a historical lesson in humility. You have a lot going for you, but thinking it'll last forever is a grave mistake.

    Back to IT; keep hoping for the best, but in the meantime, learn a non-IT skill just in case...
  • feugiat 2009-12-10 00:44
    Li:
    Swa:
    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble.


    I'm sorry, but the Coke just came flying out of my nose during my hysterical laughter at that comment. It really amazes me, the resilience of Americans. Yes, the country has rebounded from so much. But even the Mighty Rome fell. As did the Egyptians (except in that case it was the Aliens who built their empire, then took it away).

    My, how badly America needs to be taught a historical lesson in humility. You have a lot going for you, but thinking it'll last forever is a grave mistake.

    Back to IT; keep hoping for the best, but in the meantime, learn a non-IT skill just in case...
    mmmm... I sure do love me the smell of sour grapes in the morning... bitter about your country's run-in with the mongols, much, Li? Empires fail, knowledge is destroyed, yes, but logic? Logic you either has or you has not. And you, my ...internet acquaintance of dubious provenance... has not.
  • Offf 2009-12-10 05:34
    How the hell no one ever had enough balls to say this guy to PISS OFF!
    Something like:
    "I'm working right now, lets talk later"
    "If I'm talking to you I will waste waluable work time"
    or simply
    "I'm busy right now, no time to chit-chat"
  • WORKING STORAGE 2009-12-10 12:20
    Damn, I thought at first someone had modified the Eliza algorithm to function as a project manager. If anyone has source code for such a thing please share!!!
  • PinkFloyd43 2009-12-10 15:34
    Then you better get into another profession bitch! I have been working with this stuff for (30) years and typically you are always on-call 24-7/365. It's not like I would be disturbed that much during all those years but it's like being a doctor, without having days off the play golf.
    I know you are some 20 or 30something hot shot who thinks he is the king of the hill!
  • titter.com 2009-12-11 05:57
    PeriSoft:
    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?

    I'm not him, but let me just assure you that there really exist people who do their jobs to actually make money, not because they love their coworkers and bosses so huggy mucky much. And they're not rare.
  • titter.com 2009-12-11 06:27
    PinkFloyd43:
    Then you better get into another profession bitch! I have been working with this stuff for (30) years and typically you are always on-call 24-7/365. It's not like I would be disturbed that much during all those years but it's like being a doctor, without having days off the play golf.
    I know you are some 20 or 30something hot shot who thinks he is the king of the hill!

    Funny you should mention us sounding like hot shot, while the vibe I'm getting from you is "I'm a retarded yuppie".

    I know, I've been working with space travel for the past 50 years.
  • DWalker59 2009-12-11 15:54
    SQLDave:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc).

    People like this should be run out of business.


    I agree. It was back in 1906, or maybe 1907.. can't recall which.. it just before Windows 1 or 2 came out. I worked for a startup publishing company and we had just purchased some rudimentary desktop publishing software (Ventura Publisher anyone?). One Saturday shortly thereafter the owner/boss calls me into the office because (I swear it's true and to this day I wonder what mind control drugs he had been slipping to me) his mouse was not working correctly.

    Fortunately, it was a short drive. When I arrived, he was holding the mouse rotated 90 degrees to the left (working the left button with his thumb and the right button with his forefinger... no scrollwheels in those days). He couldn't figure out why the cursor movements didn't correspond with his mouse movements.

    The endorphins released into my system from laughing all the way home made the interruption worth it.



    Yeah, mice were different back in 1906 and 1907. So was the 1906 version of Windows 1.
  • some other dude 2009-12-11 16:44
    aptent:
    Anonymous:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.

    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).
    No results found for perogative:

    Did you mean prerogative?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perogative

    you're not an asshole, you're a douche.



    says the spelling nazi.
  • Quirkafleeg 2009-12-11 23:39
    morry:
    You can deal directly with your replacement and let him know it's no longer appropriate, or, if you're really pissed, go back to his boss. But don't let him walk all over you anymore.

    I believe that going to his boss when sober would be preferable. But what do I know…
  • Quirkafleeg 2009-12-11 23:53
    Heron:
    Re: running away, a former employer had an accountant who left during lunch and didn't come back. Left half-finished papers on the desk.

    The accountant was eating those papers…?
  • adfa adfasd 2009-12-13 01:07
    He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore". cheap ed hardy clothing I lasted there for 3 1/2 years before I had the same response. At least I put in two weeks though!
  • Marko 2009-12-14 03:29
    In a previous job, on the third day a programmer left for lunch and never came back. Two days later his mother called the HR director to inform him that her son was not coming back, because he felt that the guy were making fun of him.


    And you know this how?

    Did all of you get a good laugh?
  • Yardik 2009-12-14 15:09
    adfa adfasd:
    He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore". cheap ed hardy clothing I lasted there for 3 1/2 years before I had the same response. At least I put in two weeks though!
    '

    WOW.. nice bit 'o spam there.

    As for the argument on-going. I was on-call 24/7 through most of the last 5 years. I can't say I loved getting woken up at 2AM, but the perks and pager pay more than made up for it. The only reason I made it from Junior level contractor to regular employee team leader in 5 years was I was WILLING to put in the extra time. Yes, we had a lot of guys who worked 9-5 and never did anything 'extra' or volunteered for OT... they also stayed in the position they started in.. while I was promoted above them.

    You get what you give. If you don't give more than the bare minimum, you'll always be the low man on the totem pole.

    As for now, I have a cushy programming job where I can take it easy and only do OT when we're in crunch time. The only reason I got this job was the 5 years of 'grunt' hard work I did first.

    Would I do crazy 24/7 pager time now? Sure.. if I was going to get promoted for it, or the company was in a crunch and needed the help. They take care of me, and for that I put in 110% when it is needed, and 99% the rest of the time.
  • discuss.joelonsoftware.com/?joel 2009-12-15 18:06
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14):
    Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.


    Wayne, is that u?
  • Overcharging consultant 2012-06-29 18:07
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.

    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.


    Right, but they call me a psychopath when i tell them it's how things work...
  • anonymous 2013-04-09 16:43
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14):
    Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.
    Yeah, it must really suck to get dragged out of a nice Cantina on Tatooine to save some princess's ass cause her Rebel Alliance is too cheap to build a proper Death Star...