• Nick (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    Paul A. Bean:
    akatherder:
    That's just scary. During the interview, it's fair to ask if anything is expected of you outside normal business hours. However, you won't get an honest answer to that question, especially from the people who have the most to hide.

    Not a big problem, unless you left a good position to end up in a hellhole like this.

    It isn't fair to ask a question you know you won't get an honest answer to. "Fair" would be to state your exact feelings about out-of-hours availability, and request that they take that into consideration before making you an offer. Fairness and a hard close into the bargain. Win!
    Right, because they are legally bound to everything they tell you in the interview. That's so cute :P
    This is the kind of thing that should be in your contract.

  • Chewbacca (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).

    Simon?! Is that you?

  • Spyros (unregistered) in reply to highphilosopher
    It may sound funny for a boss to worry about someone disappearing, but my first job was to replace the developer of a web based company that went to lunch one day, and didn't come back. He called six months after I started and apologized saying, "He just couldn't take it anymore".
    In a previous job, on the third day a programmer left for lunch and never came back. Two days later his mother called the HR director to inform him that her son was not coming back, because he felt that the guy were making fun of him.
  • MM (unregistered) in reply to Fred

    I'd even go as far as 'borderline personality disorder'

  • John C. Random (unregistered) in reply to JohnB
    JohnB:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number.<snip>
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. <snip>
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. <snip>
    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.
    You say that as if it's a bad thing.

    No, not especially. Just hoping the guy doesn't take his "they need me more than I need them" schtick too literally, because sooner or later it won't be true. It probably already isn't true, but the hassle of replacing him isn't worth it at the moment.

  • John C. Random (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    Miguel:
    I've rarely heard a story (on here) about someone who had such trouble in their second or third job, so maybe Grads should be taught to skip the first job and settle straight into the second.

    That's a great idea!

    I've also heard that 75% of all car accidents happen within 5 miles from home. Why doesn't everyone just move 10 miles away?

    Duh! Because nobody knows if they're in the 25% band or the 75% band!

  • John C. Random (unregistered) in reply to Career Path
    Career Path:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.

    Meh. I did actually, genuinely cause a company to fold simply by leaving. They were in trouble anyway, of course, but their one skilled - meaning literally the only person who could operate their production machines - worker leaving pushed them over the edge. But I digress. I think maybe people are being too harsh on old Anon here. There's definitely room in the industry for his attitude. He's not doing himself any favours career-wise, of course, but not everybody needs to. Companies that depend on their staff working extended hours, they've got problems. Companies should be able to accommodate a 9-5 mentality.

  • John C. Random (unregistered) in reply to Laughing Jack
    Laughing Jack:
    Career Path:
    Anonymous:
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.
    And with an attitude like that you're the first person I'll "let go" when I'm promoted above you. No company, department, or project revolves on one person, and if it does then it's time to shake things up.... A good manager ensures no employee isn't replaceable - what if you were hit by a bus tomorrow. The company/project needs to go on.

    With a crappy attitude like that you can be assured of a long line of crappy going-nowhere jobs. You're not a bitch to your company, you are a bitch to mediocrity and obsolescence.

    Enjoy the unemployment line, you'll get there eventually.

    Ahhh, the willing slave, brass ring clenched firmly between his teeth. He will triumph over lesser men by virture of his superior qualities, and climb that ladder to corporate success. It's the American Way.

    I've got $5 on peptic ulcer. Anybody want to put $5 on mental breakdown?

    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.

  • John C. Random (unregistered)

    TRWTF is why he didn't change his phone number to a premium rate one, and coin in on this endless chit-chat. As regards the "9-5 vs available all hours" argument, it's a bit of a red herring isn't it? It's one thing to be available for when the shit hits the fan out of hours, but our hero in the story is just required to be available for pointless status updates and to be a comfort blanket to his boss. Only an idiot would really buy into that.

  • similis (unregistered) in reply to emh
    emh:
    Blue Collar:
    onk:
    what are you dooooing?

    Maybe that boss is Canadian?

    Hey, I take offence to that eh!? Its aboot time you learned the truth aboot canadians EH!

    I think that's a reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DkIk2NKEHs

    More like reference to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0USDWX3X5E

    I would've provided a proper link but some idiot has misconfigured their spam filter.

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to John C. Random
    John C. Random:
    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.

    Bacterial.

  • (cs) in reply to PeriSoft
    PeriSoft:
    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?
    If your employer treats you like shit, why would you put yourself out for them beyond what is exactly stated in your contract? Of course, if they treat you well then that's different. But there's no sense in being nice to a douchebag set of bosses. Life's just too short for that sort of thing, and in fact as it causes stress and depresses your immune system, it might well even be life-shortening.
  • I'm not a shrink, but I play one on Second Life.... (unregistered)

    I'm guessing the boss had AssBurgers Syndrome.

  • (cs) in reply to PeriSoft
    PeriSoft:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    FUCK THE COMPANY... A job exists to allow you to live.

    I'm guessing from your handle that you're at least somewhat of a Star Wars fan. Do you think that the guys who worked on those movies feel the way you do about their work?

    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?

    Yikes...

    No, but I've worked for (and currently work for) far too many people who think that it's okay to take advantage of the fact that you enjoy your job and use that as an excuse to get you to work what amounts to 24-7 for them. There's nothing wrong with enjoying your job and be willing to go the extra mile sometimes. It's another thing entirely, whether you enjoy your job or not, to be expected to go the extra mile at all times, no matter what other things you may have planned. When I can't hang out with my friends, visit my family or plan a night out with my girlfriend because there's a chance my boss might phone me with some "emergency" issue that he expects me to stop whatever I'm doing and fix right away, because he's too fucking cheap to hire additional talent but wants to keep costs down but have 125% productivity, then there's a problem.

  • Swa (unregistered)

    I currently work for a small company, and pretty much run everything IT related, both local and in the datacenter. I'm on call 24/7, but don't even have a company cellphone. I get called, I rarely call others work related.

    That's all fine & dandy for now. It's been like that for 2 years now. I don't mind, as long as I can see clear advancement in my position. Even if that advancement is just a feeling of entitlement and periodic bumps in 'rank' coupled to a tiny raise.

    This however will cease in about, let's say 3 more years. Then I'll more on and go somewhere more balanced and cash in on my experience. Being the only guy around that has a clue about how everything works is quite a burden (on your private life as well), but at the same time it's a great opportunity to gather experience at a rate that you wouldn't think possible.

    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble. Until then, I'm content to work my ass off and put down the building blocks of a good career by going for experience, rather than pay grade and fancy cars.

    Captcha: dolor: how I feel about extended work hours.

  • John C. Random (unregistered) in reply to Peter
    Peter:
    John C. Random:
    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.

    Bacterial.

    Yes, you're right. Thanks.

  • Andrea (unregistered) in reply to Bart
    Bart:
    Please do not run. Come back and we will have cake.

    The cake is a lie!

  • Patrick (unregistered)

    Wow. At my company, we have a simple rule: when we're not in the office, we're not working.

  • Patrick (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    When I can't hang out with my friends, visit my family or plan a night out with my girlfriend because there's a chance my boss might phone me with some "emergency" issue that he expects me to stop whatever I'm doing and fix right away, because he's too fucking cheap to hire additional talent but wants to keep costs down but have 125% productivity, then there's a problem.

    There's a word for requests like that. It has two letters. Say it with me: "No". Unless there's some problem that is actively losing money for the company, when you're off the clock, you're off the clock. End of story. Grow a spine and make the decision to help only if you want to.

    Captcha: sagaciter. he cites sagas.

  • (cs) in reply to Patrick

    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14): Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.

  • Indian Developer (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Blue Collar:
    Outsourcing software development to india... I have heard thats a good way to get "Run out of business"
    1. Outsource all the real work to India because it's cheaper.

    As much as I am hurt and hate to admin this, I have the feeling of working as a cheap labor on these projects. I had no background in IT, was trained for a couple of months and then made to work on projects. Though I now try to produce less of crap.

  • (cs)

    I'm reading all these posts and thinking that I must be lucky. As I said before, my home contact info is posted in my office and coworkers are invited to call me anytime if there is ever a TRUE emergency that needs my attention. This has yet to happen -- coworkers (and my boss) respect that if I'm not in, I'm not in. I have on occasion been asked to work strange hours to facilitate something or other -- again, the keyword is occasionally -- and I have no problem with this.

    At the beginning of course nobody asked me to do anything because I was the new kid who knew nothing, but over the years I have begun to be "that guy" that you call over who knows how to do whatever. I think becoming "indispensable" (again, within reason) is a good thing for job security.

    Should odd working hours and interruptions ever become more than "occasional" then my response would be to have a polite discussion with my boss over my job description, not bitch and moan about how much I hate the world. I enjoy my job, I support the work my company does, and as such I'm sure I could work something out.

  • aptent (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    I'm reading all these posts and thinking that I must be lucky. As I said before, my home contact info is posted in my office and coworkers are invited to call me anytime if there is ever a TRUE emergency that needs my attention. This has yet to happen -- coworkers (and my boss) respect that if I'm not in, I'm not in. I have on occasion been asked to work strange hours to facilitate something or other -- again, the keyword is occasionally -- and I have no problem with this.

    At the beginning of course nobody asked me to do anything because I was the new kid who knew nothing, but over the years I have begun to be "that guy" that you call over who knows how to do whatever. I think becoming "indispensable" (again, within reason) is a good thing for job security.

    Should odd working hours and interruptions ever become more than "occasional" then my response would be to have a polite discussion with my boss over my job description, not bitch and moan about how much I hate the world. I enjoy my job, I support the work my company does, and as such I'm sure I could work something out.

    TRWTF is that there is actually an adult in the comments... :D
  • Career Path (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi

    You should re-read my message, then get yourself a new job. You clearly hate the one you currently have.

    No where do I say you have to let the company take advantage of you, only that the person's attitude is the problem. It's a matter of professionalism and doing what's best for everyone. I want my company to succeed, because when they succeed I have a reasonable expectation for reward. As such, if a server I'm responsible for goes down at 2am and it's my job to fix it, I'll do my best to fix it. Likewise, if I've spent 5 hours working in the middle of the night, I'm certainly going to take those five hours by coming in late, or leaving early one day. Professional give and take--it goes both ways.

    If all you care about is being a clock-puncher, then fine. There are plenty of jobs like that--just not many of them in IT.

  • ping floyd (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward:
    mh:
    Charlie:
    I worked with someone who strutted around as if she had invented the entire network, but whenever anything went wrong, she had to call her assistant who left a year and a half before.

    I don't know which was worse: that she had the nerve to make the call, or that he kept giving up half-days to remote in and install server patches for her, long after he had gone.

    Oh and let's not even talk about leaving an active account for a former employee, or letting said helper sudo to root and fiddle with your firewall configuration.

    Sounds like her firewall config wasn't the only thing he was fiddling with!

    Tiger used to work in IT?

    Sure, haven't you ever heard of Tiger Direct?

  • ping floyd (unregistered) in reply to John C. Random
    John C. Random:
    Laughing Jack:
    Ahhh, the willing slave, brass ring clenched firmly between his teeth. He will triumph over lesser men by virture of his superior qualities, and climb that ladder to corporate success. It's the American Way.

    I've got $5 on peptic ulcer. Anybody want to put $5 on mental breakdown?

    Contrary to popular belief, peptic ulcers aren't caused by stress. They're viral. Growing evidence suggests the same of high blood pressure. So, $5 on the breakdown, please.

    Yeah, but if you go around licking brass rings, you're liable to run into viruses and bacteria.

  • Willicueva (unregistered) in reply to Shon

    You need to set his number to be rejected on your cell. Otherwise, have him/them start paying consulting fees.

  • (cs) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    I agree with the "professional courtesy goes both ways" statement, despite the opinionated ramblings of some previous posters.

    I have my home number, cell number, and personal email address written in the top corner of the whiteboard in my office, specifically so that if there is ever TRULY an emergency, people know how to reach me. Thus far it has never happened.

    Did anyone sign you up for spam emails?

  • Bender Rodriguez (unregistered)

    How does a nutbar like that get to be a CEO? What a stupid world we live in.

  • (cs) in reply to Bender Rodriguez
    Bender Rodriguez:
    How does a nutbar like that get to be a CEO? What a stupid world we live in.

    Sadly all it takes to be CEO is to have enough money to found a company and then hire people. You would be surprised how many idiots are CEOs or business owners.

  • (cs) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc).

    People like this should be run out of business.

    I agree. It was back in 1906, or maybe 1907.. can't recall which.. it just before Windows 1 or 2 came out. I worked for a startup publishing company and we had just purchased some rudimentary desktop publishing software (Ventura Publisher anyone?). One Saturday shortly thereafter the owner/boss calls me into the office because (I swear it's true and to this day I wonder what mind control drugs he had been slipping to me) his mouse was not working correctly.

    Fortunately, it was a short drive. When I arrived, he was holding the mouse rotated 90 degrees to the left (working the left button with his thumb and the right button with his forefinger... no scrollwheels in those days). He couldn't figure out why the cursor movements didn't correspond with his mouse movements.

    The endorphins released into my system from laughing all the way home made the interruption worth it.

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to Bruce W
    Bruce W:
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.

    I wouldn't put it in the camp of "How long have you worked in IT?". You're mixing up low level utility providers (IT's future) with other IT functions. What I mean is that there's a difference between the monkeys that keep things online versus the folks that then utilize those services to better serve the business. It's a blurry line that's making distinctions in IT nowadays.

    For me, I'm both a developer and a liaison with the business. So I have nothing to do with maintaining server up time. Our servers are maintained by the server time. They're just a utility to us. So if I were ever bothered by calls to my personal cell at odd hours over a server failure, management and I would be having a very serious discussion the next day.

  • Li (unregistered) in reply to Swa
    Swa:
    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble.

    I'm sorry, but the Coke just came flying out of my nose during my hysterical laughter at that comment. It really amazes me, the resilience of Americans. Yes, the country has rebounded from so much. But even the Mighty Rome fell. As did the Egyptians (except in that case it was the Aliens who built their empire, then took it away).

    My, how badly America needs to be taught a historical lesson in humility. You have a lot going for you, but thinking it'll last forever is a grave mistake.

    Back to IT; keep hoping for the best, but in the meantime, learn a non-IT skill just in case...

  • feugiat (unregistered) in reply to Li
    Li:
    Swa:
    I fully intend to use that in a few years, when the crisis is over & IT hiring conditions have gone back to the levels close to before the bubble.

    I'm sorry, but the Coke just came flying out of my nose during my hysterical laughter at that comment. It really amazes me, the resilience of Americans. Yes, the country has rebounded from so much. But even the Mighty Rome fell. As did the Egyptians (except in that case it was the Aliens who built their empire, then took it away).

    My, how badly America needs to be taught a historical lesson in humility. You have a lot going for you, but thinking it'll last forever is a grave mistake.

    Back to IT; keep hoping for the best, but in the meantime, learn a non-IT skill just in case...

    mmmm... I sure do love me the smell of sour grapes in the morning... bitter about your country's run-in with the mongols, much, Li? Empires fail, knowledge is destroyed, yes, but logic? Logic you either has or you has not. And you, my ...internet acquaintance of dubious provenance... has not.

  • Offf (unregistered)

    How the hell no one ever had enough balls to say this guy to PISS OFF! Something like: "I'm working right now, lets talk later" "If I'm talking to you I will waste waluable work time" or simply "I'm busy right now, no time to chit-chat"

  • WORKING STORAGE (unregistered)

    Damn, I thought at first someone had modified the Eliza algorithm to function as a project manager. If anyone has source code for such a thing please share!!!

  • PinkFloyd43 (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous

    Then you better get into another profession bitch! I have been working with this stuff for (30) years and typically you are always on-call 24-7/365. It's not like I would be disturbed that much during all those years but it's like being a doctor, without having days off the play golf. I know you are some 20 or 30something hot shot who thinks he is the king of the hill!

  • titter.com (unregistered) in reply to PeriSoft
    PeriSoft:
    Is it really making you happy that you do something you detest just to exist, and do you truly believe that nobody else in the world has passion for their jobs, or that those who do are just suckers?
    I'm not him, but let me just assure you that there really exist people who do their jobs to actually make money, not because they love their coworkers and bosses so huggy mucky much. And they're not rare.
  • titter.com (unregistered) in reply to PinkFloyd43
    PinkFloyd43:
    Then you better get into another profession bitch! I have been working with this stuff for (30) years and typically you are always on-call 24-7/365. It's not like I would be disturbed that much during all those years but it's like being a doctor, without having days off the play golf. I know you are some 20 or 30something hot shot who thinks he is the king of the hill!
    Funny you should mention us sounding like hot shot, while the vibe I'm getting from you is "I'm a retarded yuppie".

    I know, I've been working with space travel for the past 50 years.

  • (cs) in reply to SQLDave
    SQLDave:
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    A lot of startups seem to have this "I need to get a hold of you at any time" mentality. Guy I currently work for calls me at odd times during the day (7am call, etc).

    People like this should be run out of business.

    I agree. It was back in 1906, or maybe 1907.. can't recall which.. it just before Windows 1 or 2 came out. I worked for a startup publishing company and we had just purchased some rudimentary desktop publishing software (Ventura Publisher anyone?). One Saturday shortly thereafter the owner/boss calls me into the office because (I swear it's true and to this day I wonder what mind control drugs he had been slipping to me) his mouse was not working correctly.

    Fortunately, it was a short drive. When I arrived, he was holding the mouse rotated 90 degrees to the left (working the left button with his thumb and the right button with his forefinger... no scrollwheels in those days). He couldn't figure out why the cursor movements didn't correspond with his mouse movements.

    The endorphins released into my system from laughing all the way home made the interruption worth it.

    Yeah, mice were different back in 1906 and 1907. So was the 1906 version of Windows 1.

  • some other dude (unregistered) in reply to aptent
    aptent:
    Anonymous:
    John C. Random:
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    This basically tells me that, although you perform adequately enough, nobody really wants you around when the shit hits the fan.

    Nobody wants me around at any point in time but like I explained, they need me more than I need them so they just have to put up with me. I'm not trying to tell you that I'm not an asshole because I really am. I'm sure they hate me but that is their perogative as long as they keep paying me (which they will, poor bastards).
    No results found for perogative:

    Did you mean prerogative?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perogative

    you're not an asshole, you're a douche.

    says the spelling nazi.

  • Quirkafleeg (unregistered) in reply to morry
    morry:
    You can deal directly with your replacement and let him know it's no longer appropriate, or, if you're really pissed, go back to his boss. But don't let him walk all over you anymore.
    I believe that going to his boss when sober would be preferable. But what do I know…
  • Quirkafleeg (unregistered) in reply to Heron
    Heron:
    Re: running away, a former employer had an accountant who left during lunch and didn't come back. Left half-finished papers on the desk.
    The accountant was eating those papers…?
  • Marko (unregistered) in reply to Spyros
    In a previous job, on the third day a programmer left for lunch and never came back. Two days later his mother called the HR director to inform him that her son was not coming back, because he felt that the guy were making fun of him.

    And you know this how?

    Did all of you get a good laugh?

  • Yardik (unregistered)

    I was on-call 24/7 through most of the last 5 years. I can't say I loved getting woken up at 2AM, but the perks and pager pay more than made up for it. The only reason I made it from Junior level contractor to regular employee team leader in 5 years was I was WILLING to put in the extra time. Yes, we had a lot of guys who worked 9-5 and never did anything 'extra' or volunteered for OT... they also stayed in the position they started in.. while I was promoted above them.

    You get what you give. If you don't give more than the bare minimum, you'll always be the low man on the totem pole.

    As for now, I have a cushy programming job where I can take it easy and only do OT when we're in crunch time. The only reason I got this job was the 5 years of 'grunt' hard work I did first.

    Would I do crazy 24/7 pager time now? Sure.. if I was going to get promoted for it, or the company was in a crunch and needed the help. They take care of me, and for that I put in 110% when it is needed, and 99% the rest of the time.

  • discuss.joelonsoftware.com/?joel (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14): Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.

    Wayne, is that u?

  • Overcharging consultant (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Bruce W:
    Anonymous:
    I would never ever give my employer my mobile phone number. If they need to contact me then they can buy me a company mobile but I will still insist on turning it off as soon as I leave work for the day. If it is outside of working hours then I couldn't care less about their problems.
    Wow. How long have you worked in IT? I value my personal time but I know that when the shit hits the fan, who cares what time it is. Likewise, I expect my employer to understand that if there is a family emergency, I'm gone. Professional courtesy goes both ways.
    I've worked in IT long enough to know that I can earn my wage without being anybody's bitch. I'm contracted to work 8 hours a day and I perform to the best of my abilities during that time. But once that time has passed, I'm gone and I'm not stopping for anything or anyone. And they still have to accomodate me if I have a "family emergency" or anything else, because they know good and damn well that they need me more than I need them. As far as I'm concerned, professional courtesy works one way because I have the upper hand and I couldn't care less about my employers or their success in the marketplace. This attitude has being honed by many years in an unforgiving industry. If you stick with it for long enough you'll get there eventually.

    Right, but they call me a psychopath when i tell them it's how things work...

  • anonymous (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    Kind of hard when your boss thinks EVERYTHING costs them money, and is unwilling to pay for actual resources to deal with it but expects you to never take vacations for fear of something not working.

    Or when he pimps you out to your old boss because the two of them are partners on a third (and fourth, and fifth...) company and the old boss doesn't want to hire anyone else to do your old job but repeatedly ask for your "help"... every day.

    Addendum (2009-12-09 11:14): Let's change that to emphasize the point that we are a consultant for the new boss, and the new boss and old boss are joint in 6 different businesses, and the old boss repeatedly asks the new boss to lend us to him for tasks.

    Yeah, it must really suck to get dragged out of a nice Cantina on Tatooine to save some princess's ass cause her Rebel Alliance is too cheap to build a proper Death Star...

  • kirby (unregistered) in reply to Niels

    underrated comment

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