• william (unregistered)

    TRWTF is using audio cassette tapes that if a music audio tape is played could potentially corrupt the whole database system

  • (cs)

    I always did hate "Free Bird", I just wasn't sure why.

  • (cs)

    This story proves that the fellow in MFD has his priorities straight.

  • Nerf Herder (unregistered) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    I always did hate "Free Bird", I just wasn't sure why.

    Blasphemy! How dare you!

  • (cs)

    The data cassette tapes should have been notched slightly differently than audio cassette tapes. That would have prevented this.

  • ambrosen (unregistered) in reply to william
    william:
    TRWTF is using audio cassette tapes that if a music audio tape is played could potentially corrupt the whole database system
    They were quite a common data storage medium back in the day.
  • the amazing null (unregistered)

    could have been worse, the RIAA could have come after them for unauthorized copy and distribution of a protected work.

    maybe that is the key, they should develop "the freebird initiative" and make music whip the crap out of any computer it touches. oh, wait, sony did that once...

  • Blobster (unregistered) in reply to william

    Is that "TRWTF"? Or is it the original WTF as posted?

  • (cs)
    1. Create database
    2. ???
    3. Proffitt’s!
  • Shriike (unregistered)

    TRWTF is that apparently people here don't like Freebird. Now do you see how powerful that song is, it took down a major department store for three days, no other song moves people quite like it.

  • (cs)

    "the validation code really wasn’t prepared to handle Free Bird" What kind of idiot doesn't add validation code to root out Free Bird? I mean seriously. Amusingly enough decades later management all over the world will still put mission critical equipment in hallways, bathrooms, kitchens, the kindergarten next door and so on and so forth.

  • jens (unregistered)

    Are we talking casette or 8-track? Anyone who ever owned a C64 will know that was often quite difficult to load a program from a casette (especially if it was well-used) so it sort of incredible that free bird should be recognized as data at all. Also wasn't there some kind of start tone handshake process in the beginning before the actual data started?

  • (cs)

    Am I the only one who initially thought the name "Proffitt's" was one of Alex's trademark "embellishments" or "anonymizations"?

  • ; (unregistered) in reply to Someone You Know
    Someone You Know:
    Am I the only one who initially thought the name "Proffitt's" was one of Alex's trademark "embellishments" or "anonymizations"?
    Indeed. I went as far as checking their wikipedia article's revision history to ensure that the article wasn't fake and put in place to coincide with posting of this story.
  • (cs) in reply to jens
    jens:
    Are we talking casette or 8-track? Anyone who ever owned a C64 will know that was often quite difficult to load a program from a casette (especially if it was well-used) so it sort of incredible that free bird should be recognized as data at all. Also wasn't there some kind of start tone handshake process in the beginning before the actual data started?

    "It beeps, therefore it is"

    I guess the handshake would be handled by the faithful transmit button, which then send the data it was given. TRWTF is that they implemented error handling. Real programmers don't make mistakes! Adding error handling was a mistake, and it cost them all of their data.

  • (cs) in reply to jens
    Also wasn't there some kind of start tone handshake process in the beginning before the actual data started?
    If programmers and project managers are still saying, "Nobody would ever do that" today, what makes you think they weren't saying it in the 70's?

    I can actually see this conversation;

    Programmer 1: Yeah, that's cool, and look - it's the same size as my Lynrd Skynrd album. I wonder what would happen if someone put that in and played it?

    Programmer 2: Why would someone do that?

    Programmer 1: Yeah, I guess.

  • (cs)

    Context is everything.

    They tried something new with what was then new technology. They made mistakes, paid for them, and most importantly, corrected them.

    Sounds like someplace where management listened to IT, took what seemed like reasonable risks, and in spite of some glitches (eg: someone making critical equipment accessible to untrained people), eventually, came out ahead.

  • JJK (unregistered)

    More of a lesson-to-be-learned than a WTF, but interesting to read none-the-less.

    I think more upper-management in the industry need to be made aware of stories like this. With IT budgets getting tighter, the first things to get slimmed down are usually back-up and disaster-recovery capacity.

  • James (unregistered)

    This is perhaps one of the best buffer overflow cautionary tales I've ever read. TRWTF is that they didn't invent, then use, Java.

    Heh.

  • (cs)

    My ringtone is Free Bird. I guess the computer world has learnt from this lesson because the mobile network doesn't crash everytime someone calls me.

  • (cs) in reply to seamustheseagull
    seamustheseagull:
    Programmer 2: Why would someone do that?
    When I was writing apps for use in the production control department of a steel fabrication company, I used to deliver my latest effort to the department manager, who in his testing would then do something as ridiculous as playing "Free Bird" into it. It sometimes took him about eight seconds to crash the program. And watching over his shoulder, I would exclaim, "Why did you do that?!". His reply was, "Because my employees will do it."
  • SomeCoder (unregistered) in reply to FredSaw
    FredSaw:
    seamustheseagull:
    Programmer 2: Why would someone do that?
    When I was writing apps for use in the production control department of a steel fabrication company, I used to deliver my latest effort to the department manager, who in his testing would then do something as ridiculous as playing "Free Bird" into it. It sometimes took him about eight seconds to crash the program. And watching over his shoulder, I would exclaim, "Why did you do that?!". His reply was, "Because my employees will do it."

    I had a teacher in one of my very first programming classes that would do this. He would tell us "you have to make the program idiot proof". We'd all chuckle and go along coding.

    Then when he'd come by to test your program, you'd watch him enter something completely random and crash the program.

    "Why did you enter that??"

    "I told you to make it idiot proof."

    We learned quickly from that teacher.

  • (cs)

    On the bright side, I think this guy may have been the first step towards the almighty MP3.

    And... I wonder, was "Free Bird" recorded in a Type IV (METAL) cassette?? Those HP data cassettes my dad had were all Type IV, which has a nice dent right in the middle of the cassette, which my 1981 stereo system uses to identify that specific type of cassette.

    Then again, I wasn't even born in the 70's, so maybe the METAL cassettes were actually used for other things than data back then...

  • (cs) in reply to SomeCoder
    SomeCoder:
    I had a teacher in one of my very first programming classes that would do this. He would tell us "you have to make the program idiot proof". We'd all chuckle and go along coding.

    Then when he'd come by to test your program, you'd watch him enter something completely random and crash the program.

    "Why did you enter that??"

    "I told you to make it idiot proof."

    We learned quickly from that teacher.

    Back in my C days, I quickly learned to stop using scanf("%d") and actually implementing input validation after having a teacher that would do the "keyboard mash" validation: mash the keyboard and pressing enter. When using scanf() for reading ints, getting a letter instead will trash all subsequent scanf's for ints.

    I now use input validators on everything. This is also the reason I laugh at VB or Access "developers", when the program's reaction to sending letters on numeric fields will crash the program, or pop up the Office Assistant...

  • mayo (unregistered)

    If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me?

  • silent d (unregistered)

    What data file is it you want to hear?

  • APH (unregistered) in reply to Someone You Know

    It got me too. Maybe I'm too young to remember Proffitt's.

  • (cs) in reply to silent d
    silent d:
    What data file is it you want to hear?
    You might be interested in this
  • Lynyrd (unregistered)

    If I leave here tomorrow Would you still remember me? For I must be traveling on, now, cause theres too many places Ive got to see. But, if I stayed here with you, girl, Things just couldn't be the same. cause Im as free as a bird now, And this bird you can not change. Lord knows, I cant change.

    Bye, bye, its been a sweet love. Though this feeling I cant change. But please don't take it badly, cause lord knows Im to blame. But, if I stayed here with you girl, Things just couldn't be the same. Cause I'm as free as a bird now, And this bird you'll never change. And this bird you can not change. Lord knows, I cant change. Lord help me, I cant change

    -- Did I just crash thedailywtf.com?

    Skynyrd ROCKS!

  • Bosshog (unregistered) in reply to danixdefcon5
    danixdefcon5:
    On the bright side, I think this guy may have been the first step towards the almighty MP3.

    And... I wonder, was "Free Bird" recorded in a Type IV (METAL) cassette?? Those HP data cassettes my dad had were all Type IV, which has a nice dent right in the middle of the cassette, which my 1981 stereo system uses to identify that specific type of cassette.

    Then again, I wasn't even born in the 70's, so maybe the METAL cassettes were actually used for other things than data back then...

    Type DCLXVI (HEAVY METAL)

    Rock n roll!

  • criticman (unregistered)

    Profitt's is no more and is not under Saks Inc. Profitt's was purchased by Belk and converted to Belk-branded stores.

  • RandomWTF (unregistered)

    I assumed that the name of the company was fake, until I looked up who purchased Sak's online.

    The name of the company sounds like something you would see in a work of fiction that was highly critical of big business, a play on the word "profits".

    Guess it was actually some guy's last name. Who knew?

  • (cs)

    I've just realized that even though I've heard of "Freebird" many times before, I've never actually heard it before. I'm trying to decide whether to be proud or ashamed of that fact - I'm sure that you all will let me know the appropriate course of action here.

    (Listening to it now at http://youtube.com/watch?v=O1mCQKuvzCM - not sure I get what the big deal is about it)

    (Ahh, just read the Wikipedia article - apparently I haven't played enough Guitar Hero)

  • Pedantic Rocker (unregistered)

    Hey man, it's "Lynyrd Skynyrd", not "Lynrd Skynrd".

    OK, Rock on...

    captcha: skynyrdo

  • criticman (unregistered) in reply to RandomWTF

    Yeah it didn't dawn on my it was the company until I saw the logo with the article. WAY too familiar with them (and Belk that bought them) thanks to my dad's involvement in the retail industry...since the time of the article or a little before really!

  • (cs) in reply to cowboy_k
    Lynyrd:
    But, if I stayed here with you, girl, Things just couldn't be the same. cause Im as free as a bird now, And this bird you can not change.
    Um... 'scuse me for noticing, but if "things just couldn't be the same", that indicates change.
    cowboy_k:
    (Listening to it now at http://youtube.com/watch?v=O1mCQKuvzCM - not sure I get what the big deal is about it)
    You can't do it like that. To get the full effect, you have to put the top down on your sport coupe, crank up the music, and play it while cruising off down the highway away from a relationship that's grown too clingy.
  • Tim Jarrett (unregistered)

    Was this the first buffer overflow attack?

  • (cs) in reply to FredSaw
    FredSaw:
    cowboy_k:
    (Listening to it now at http://youtube.com/watch?v=O1mCQKuvzCM - not sure I get what the big deal is about it)
    You can't do it like that. To get the full effect, you have to put the top down on your sport coupe, crank up the music, and play it while cruising off down the highway away from a relationship that's grown too clingy.
    Ahhh... well, then, I guess I'm not going to get the full effect right now. Thanks for the tip, though.
  • (cs)

    It was the 8-minute guitar solo that did it. If he'd played the shortened 1-verse version of the song it would've been okay.

  • TC (unregistered) in reply to william
    william:
    TRWTF is using audio cassette tapes that if a music audio tape is played could potentially corrupt the whole database system

    I learned my first programming language on a TI-99 back around 1984. I used cassette tapes to save my programs. They were slooooooooooooooooooow (sequential access only, of course :( ). I never tried to get anything off an audio tape, though. But they all looked the same (except the ones with my programs had no labels on them :) Darn, I missed a perfect opportunity to experiment and possibly mess up a TI-99!

  • (cs)

    I learned this lesson the hard way in my first job out of college. After 3 full days of painfully and tediously subtotalling hundreds of invoices listed on a report, while stepping slowly through the loop in the debugger, I found that someone had entered a "?" into a price field of a single invoice. Instead of crashing the program, it thoughtfully converted the question mark into it's numeric equivalent (I guess...), putting the total off without making the report look at all funny. I wasn't even done swearing by the time I added the missing validation routine.

  • silent d (unregistered) in reply to cowboy_k

    Just tune in any classic rock station. The FCC requires that they play either a station ID or Freebird every 20 minutes.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to SomeCoder
    SomeCoder:
    "I told you to make it idiot proof."

    The problem with trying to make things idiot-proof is that idiots are so creative.

  • Also a big geek (unregistered) in reply to valerion
    valerion:
    My ringtone is Free Bird. I guess the computer world has learnt from this lesson because the mobile network doesn't crash everytime someone calls me.

    If your ringtone is Free Bird, I'm guessing your phone doesn't ring very much.

    Do you even get coverage down in mom's basement?

  • Harrow (unregistered) in reply to valerion
    valerion:
    My ringtone is Free Bird. I guess the computer world has learnt from this lesson because the mobile network doesn't crash everytime someone calls me.
    Yeah, but what happens when you call them?

    Just as an expirement, try calling Saks Fifth Avenue.

    -Harrow.

  • Matt (unregistered) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    SomeCoder:
    "I told you to make it idiot proof."

    The problem with trying to make things idiot-proof is that idiots are so creative.

    QFT. Had a teacher like this though as well, learned the most from him and helped me avoid many WTFs later on.

  • (cs) in reply to Harrow

    My first real job was in a back office of some big bank that used those intra-office pneumatic tubes to shuffle papers between departments. The suction was pretty harsh.

    Every now and then, someone would take a cannister with the top broken (cut) off, fill it with pennies/marbles/anything-small-hard-and-voluminous, close the door and direct it to a "friend". whoosh very loud bang machine gun like splatter of small hard objects bouncing in the tube

    Usually good for a laugh...

  • Andrew (unregistered)

    Was that Zuzu Petals working in the back?

  • tezoatlipoca (unregistered) in reply to SomeCoder
    SomeCoder:
    FredSaw:
    seamustheseagull:
    Programmer 2: Why would someone do that?
    When I was writing apps for use in the production control department of a steel fabrication company, I used to deliver my latest effort to the department manager, who in his testing would then do something as ridiculous as playing "Free Bird" into it. It sometimes took him about eight seconds to crash the program. And watching over his shoulder, I would exclaim, "Why did you do that?!". His reply was, "Because my employees will do it."

    I had a teacher in one of my very first programming classes that would do this. He would tell us "you have to make the program idiot proof". We'd all chuckle and go along coding.

    Then when he'd come by to test your program, you'd watch him enter something completely random and crash the program.

    "Why did you enter that??"

    "I told you to make it idiot proof."

    We learned quickly from that teacher.

    I had a teacher like that who liked to write cheques for $0.00 and see if the bank's software could take it.

  • Andrew (unregistered) in reply to Jay

    Yes but using a standard cassette player w/o obvious labels everywhere doesn't qualify as "idiot proof"

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