• Andrew (unregistered)

    Clearly someone forgot to remove their deubg lines on the bank site. or more scary, is debuging real-time.

  • Nagesh (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Anketam (cs)

    Helium has weight! It is just that its weight is so little that it gets pushed up by the rest of the air.

  • 3.14159265 (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Philipp (unregistered)

    For some reason I feel the sudden urge to buy a new MT PT UT RT ET VT FI TOFD.

  • Matt (unregistered)

    Freeview is pretty bad - must live in the same area as me.

  • Manadar (unregistered)

    The error in the last image is probably caused by Adblock. You can see Adblock is active from the stop sign in the top right with a white hand inside.

  • PiisAWheeL (cs) in reply to 3.14159265
    3.14159265:
    You're right K Johnson, it's not easy.

    Write me to 3.14159265@gmail.com, so we can talk about it.

    You can't have pi... thats my email!

  • Bob (unregistered)

    "This product gets lighter when shipped?"

    Before posting it they de-tension the springs...

  • PiisAWheeL (cs) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    "This product gets lighter when shipped?"

    Before posting it they de-tension the springs...

    Maybe it's coming from a planet with lower gravity and they just averaged the shipping weight. It weighs 20 something pounds when it gets to your door.

  • Reelix (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Sehe (unregistered) in reply to Reelix

    I did the same googling: "mt pt ut rt et vt fi tofd"

    First hit: www.nde.com, obviously [sic] it is the trainings to 'ND' technicians.

    I'm much more surprised the OP didn't find it?

  • my little phony (unregistered)

    So if I bought a tank of helium, would they pay me to ship it?

    Captcha: eros (no, no, that's not what the helium is for)

  • dkf (cs) in reply to my little phony
    my little phony:
    So if I bought a tank of helium, would they pay me to ship it?
    No. Helium's expensive (as anyone operating an MRI machine will tell you).
  • Parliamentary Train (unregistered) in reply to Anketam

    Weight =! Mass

    Weight is the force on an object due to gravity and buoyancy. Therefore, while a helium balloon may have mass, it has a negative weight if it rises (or may be weightless if it just floats without rising or falling).

  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to Parliamentary Train
    Parliamentary Train:
    Weight =! Mass

    Weight is the force on an object due to gravity and buoyancy. Therefore, while a helium balloon may have mass, it has a negative weight if it rises (or may be weightless if it just floats without rising or falling).

    Bzzzt! Wrong! Weight is a measure of the force that gravity exerts on an object. What you are describing is "apparent weight", the net, downward force exerted on an object.

  • masterX244 (cs)

    The Mazon one is surely true. I found myself two or three of these abd much more nonsense values and informations. They fail often there :-)

  • Should Be Working (unregistered) in reply to dkf

    Also gas cylinders are really heavy.

  • Should Be Working (unregistered) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    my little phony:
    So if I bought a tank of helium, would they pay me to ship it?
    No. Helium's expensive (as anyone operating an MRI machine will tell you).

    Meant to quote, doh

  • too_many_usernames (cs) in reply to Hmmmm
    Hmmmm:
    Bzzzt! Wrong! Weight is a measure of the force that gravity exerts on an object. What you are describing is "apparent weight", the net, downward force exerted on an object.

    I weep for the future of humanity if this is the kind of thought process that is now being taught about science.

  • tugs (unregistered)

    I think K Johnson is just sad that his phone number didn't pop up in the reverse lookup results.

  • Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Ben Jammin (unregistered) in reply to too_many_usernames
    too_many_usernames:
    Hmmmm:
    Bzzzt! Wrong! Weight is a measure of the force that gravity exerts on an object. What you are describing is "apparent weight", the net, downward force exerted on an object.

    I weep for the future of humanity if this is the kind of thought process that is now being taught about science.

    What, the thought process of just reading junk off Wikipedia and regurgitating it on a forum somewhere?

    Weight is actually the number on my bathroom scale. I've actually found a great weight loss program which I have titled "Lean back on the scale." By removing pressure from the springs, I can lose about 15 lbs in a matter of seconds. (However, like most weight loss programs, the weight just stacks right back on once I stop following the program steps.)

  • Jack (unregistered) in reply to Philipp
    Philipp:
    For some reason I feel the sudden urge to buy a new MT PT UT RT ET VT FI TOFD.
    I suspect the product is so politically incorrect they had to censor, or maybe encrypt, its description. As soon as Santorum rises to power, it will probably be banned entirely. So I'm going to buy as much as I can afford right now!
  • Larry (unregistered) in reply to Manadar
    Manadar:
    The error in the last image is probably caused by Adblock. You can see Adblock is active from the stop sign in the top right with a white hand inside.
    So, there's a way to sneak a few bytes past Adblock??! Quick, let's get our best devs on it and figure out how to manipulate that sneaky text into a readable message!! Then we can bombard those damn adblocker-people with ads!!! Because if they only knew of our product they would buy it, despite their clearly expressed hatred of ads!!!! Go forth and code, minions!!!!!

    (Sorry, while trying to emulate an advertiser's brain I forgot to use all capital letters, and I'm not going to go back and retype it now.)

  • Ralph (unregistered) in reply to Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Captain Obvious (unregistered) in reply to too_many_usernames
    too_many_usernames:
    Hmmmm:
    Bzzzt! Wrong! Weight is a measure of the force that gravity exerts on an object. What you are describing is "apparent weight", the net, downward force exerted on an object.

    I weep for the future of humanity if this is the kind of thought process that is now being taught about science.

    That definition of weight is downright useless, as it would force you to weigh everything in a vaccume. Not to mention gravity is accelleration, not a force, and even if it was, weight isn't measured in gram-meters per squared second.

  • DM (unregistered)

    The real WTF for the Gmail ad is not using AdBlock.

  • Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best (unregistered) in reply to Ralph
    Comment held for moderation.
  • PiisAWheeL (cs) in reply to Parliamentary Train
    Parliamentary Train:
    Weight =! Mass
    What language uses =! for not = to (As apposed to != like all the languages I've ever used).
  • Some Damn Yank (unregistered) in reply to Manadar
    Manadar:
    The error in the last image is probably caused by Adblock. You can see Adblock is active from the stop sign in the top right with a white hand inside.
    Possibly, but I think it's more likely they need to switch to the "new look".
  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to Ben Jammin
    too_many_usernames:
    I weep for the future of humanity if this is the kind of thought process that is now being taught about science.
    So, you weep because people are being taught (and have been for many years though it hasn't always been used consistently, even by scientists) a rational and consistent system for describing physical concepts?

    It is incorrect to say that a helium balloon has a negative (or zero) weight. The weight of an object only changes when its mass changes or when the gravitational field changes.

    Personally, I weep for the future of humanity whenever it occurs to me that people like you aren't sterilised at birth.

    Ben Jammin:
    What, the thought process of just reading junk off Wikipedia and regurgitating it on a forum somewhere?
    You may have to resort to that sort of thing but I learnt the correct terms and usage for these concepts over thirty years ago when my age was in single figures.
    Ben Jammin:
    Weight is actually the number on my bathroom scale.
    Again, no. Most bathroom scales (single pan type, digital or spring based) actually measure "apparent weight". This is only the same as weight in an inertial reference frame (non-accelerating for people who need to, but are too lazy to, look it up) where gravity is acting vertically downward.
  • Sam (unregistered)

    For the benefit of the woefully ill-informed, here is the correct definition of weight, and some notes on buoyancy...

    Mass is an invariant quantity which measures the resistance of an object to having its velocity changed; the higher the mass, the lower the acceleration produced by a given force (Newton's Second Law; F = ma). The SI unit is the kilogram.

    Weight is defined as the gravitational force applied to an object by another. In general, this is given by F = GMm/r^2, where M and m are the masses of the two objects, r is the distance between their centres of mass, and G is the gravitational constant. For objects on or near the surface of the Earth, GM/r^2 is approximately constant, and we get F = mg, where g is ~9.81m s^-2. Since weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton.

    Objects in a fluid under the influence of gravity experience a buoyancy force, which is due to the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the object. For most objects in air, this is small and tends to be ignored, but if an object weighs less than an equivalent volume of the fluid it's in, the buoyancy force is greater than the weight force, and thus there is a net upwards force. Since helium has a lower density than air, you can construct a balloon containing helium which floats in air.

    Obviously given this, the buoyancy force is much greater in denser fluids such as water, which is why a ship or an iceberg float.

  • Bob (unregistered) in reply to Sam
    Sam:
    For the benefit of the woefully ill-informed, here is the correct definition of weight, and some notes on buoyancy...

    Mass is an invariant quantity which measures the resistance of an object to having its velocity changed; the higher the mass, the lower the acceleration produced by a given force (Newton's Second Law; F = ma). The SI unit is the kilogram.

    Weight is defined as the gravitational force applied to an object by another. In general, this is given by F = GMm/r^2, where M and m are the masses of the two objects, r is the distance between their centres of mass, and G is the gravitational constant. For objects on or near the surface of the Earth, GM/r^2 is approximately constant, and we get F = mg, where g is ~9.81m s^-2. Since weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton.

    Objects in a fluid under the influence of gravity experience a buoyancy force, which is due to the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the object. For most objects in air, this is small and tends to be ignored, but if an object weighs less than an equivalent volume of the fluid it's in, the buoyancy force is greater than the weight force, and thus there is a net upwards force. Since helium has a lower density than air, you can construct a balloon containing helium which floats in air.

    Obviously given this, the buoyancy force is much greater in denser fluids such as water, which is why a ship or an iceberg float.

    (At the risk of some actual knowledge exchange here as opposed to flip snarky comments...) so when I step on the scale, it isn't measuring my actual weight, since I'm partially buoyed up by the surrounding air. By what factor should I adjust to calculate my true weight in a vacuum, assuming still at Earth surface gravity?

    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?

  • Anketam (cs) in reply to Sam
    Sam:
    For the benefit of the woefully ill-informed, here is the correct definition of weight, and some notes on buoyancy...

    Mass is an invariant quantity which measures the resistance of an object to having its velocity changed; the higher the mass, the lower the acceleration produced by a given force (Newton's Second Law; F = ma). The SI unit is the kilogram.

    Weight is defined as the gravitational force applied to an object by another. In general, this is given by F = GMm/r^2, where M and m are the masses of the two objects, r is the distance between their centres of mass, and G is the gravitational constant. For objects on or near the surface of the Earth, GM/r^2 is approximately constant, and we get F = mg, where g is ~9.81m s^-2. Since weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton.

    Objects in a fluid under the influence of gravity experience a buoyancy force, which is due to the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the object. For most objects in air, this is small and tends to be ignored, but if an object weighs less than an equivalent volume of the fluid it's in, the buoyancy force is greater than the weight force, and thus there is a net upwards force. Since helium has a lower density than air, you can construct a balloon containing helium which floats in air.

    Obviously given this, the buoyancy force is much greater in denser fluids such as water, which is why a ship or an iceberg float.

    This is also why if you put a hellium balloon in a vacuum it will no longer float since there is no upward force coming from the buoyancy. Lastly if there is a scale in that vacuum the balloon will actually register weight.

  • F (unregistered) in reply to PiisAWheeL
    PiisAWheeL:
    Parliamentary Train:
    Weight =! Mass
    What language uses =! for not = to (As apposed to != like all the languages I've ever used).
    Reverse Polish?
  • KattMan (cs) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    (At the risk of some actual knowledge exchange here as opposed to flip snarky comments...) so when I step on the scale, it isn't measuring my actual weight, since I'm partially buoyed up by the surrounding air. By what factor should I adjust to calculate my true weight in a vacuum, assuming still at Earth surface gravity?

    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?

    Maybe, but remember air also has mass and is also affected by gravity and therefore has weight, so while denser air may increase your bouyancy, you also have heavier air pressing down on you. So that 1 atmospheric pressure you usually experiance is just a little higher then normal. I have no idea where the tipping point is between you weighing fractionally less or more.

  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to Captain Obvious
    Captain Obvious:
    That definition of weight is downright useless, as it would force you to weigh everything in a vaccume.
    Wrong. While the true definition of weight is not very useful in everyday life, the error due to atmospheric boyancy is very small when weighing anything with a reasonably high density. Apparent weight and (true) weight are usually close enough for most people to not worry about it.
    Captain Obvious:
    Not to mention gravity is accelleration, not a force, and even if it was, weight isn't measured in gram-meters per squared second.
    I didn't say that gravity was a force, I said that gravity exerts a force on objects. Also, weight most definitely is measured in kgm/s^2 (the SI unit of force, the Newton). It is only the confused popular usage of weight that uses kg (or lb) as the unit.

    E.g. take 2 identical reference masses each of 1 kg and 2 identical bathroom scales. Make sure they measure exactly the same weight. Take one set to the north pole and the other to the equator and you will find that the one at the pole indicates approx. 0.3% more than the one at the equator due to the slightly higher gravitational field (in turn due to the slightly smaller radius at the pole than the equator).

  • F (unregistered) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    Sam:
    For the benefit of the woefully ill-informed, here is the correct definition of weight, and some notes on buoyancy...

    Mass is an invariant quantity which measures the resistance of an object to having its velocity changed; the higher the mass, the lower the acceleration produced by a given force (Newton's Second Law; F = ma). The SI unit is the kilogram.

    Weight is defined as the gravitational force applied to an object by another. In general, this is given by F = GMm/r^2, where M and m are the masses of the two objects, r is the distance between their centres of mass, and G is the gravitational constant. For objects on or near the surface of the Earth, GM/r^2 is approximately constant, and we get F = mg, where g is ~9.81m s^-2. Since weight is a force, its SI unit is the newton.

    Objects in a fluid under the influence of gravity experience a buoyancy force, which is due to the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the object. For most objects in air, this is small and tends to be ignored, but if an object weighs less than an equivalent volume of the fluid it's in, the buoyancy force is greater than the weight force, and thus there is a net upwards force. Since helium has a lower density than air, you can construct a balloon containing helium which floats in air.

    Obviously given this, the buoyancy force is much greater in denser fluids such as water, which is why a ship or an iceberg float.

    (At the risk of some actual knowledge exchange here as opposed to flip snarky comments...) so when I step on the scale, it isn't measuring my actual weight, since I'm partially buoyed up by the surrounding air. By what factor should I adjust to calculate my true weight in a vacuum, assuming still at Earth surface gravity?

    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?

    You do. But your bathroom scales probably aren't sensitive enough to show it.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to Anketam
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to F
    F:
    PiisAWheeL:
    Parliamentary Train:
    Weight =! Mass
    What language uses =! for not = to (As apposed to != like all the languages I've ever used).
    Reverse Polish?

    Reverse Polish ... would that be "shilop"?

  • Ralph (unregistered) in reply to Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to PiisAWheeL
    PiisAWheeL:
    Parliamentary Train:
    Weight =! Mass
    What language uses =! for not = to (As apposed to != like all the languages I've ever used).

    If weight =! Mass, then when Mass is true, weight will be set to false, and vice versa.

  • Jay (unregistered)

    Hey, aren't the admins supposed to be anonymizing these posts? I really don't appreciate having my son's name, 3995599, posted on a public web site.

  • Zunesis: Nothing Less Than The Best (unregistered) in reply to Ralph
    Ralph:
    I mean, it is not merely what a woman wears that makes her seductive, it is the manifest intent to be provocative and bare!
    Hmm... I prefer it the other way around - innocent, unknowing provocation - as it makes the rape fantasy more intense.
    Ralph:
    Still, I was fantasizing that there would be naked boobies there somewhere, so thanks for taking that away from me.
    Oh, grow up!
  • Sam (unregistered) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    (At the risk of some actual knowledge exchange here as opposed to flip snarky comments...) so when I step on the scale, it isn't measuring my actual weight, since I'm partially buoyed up by the surrounding air. By what factor should I adjust to calculate my true weight in a vacuum, assuming still at Earth surface gravity?

    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?

    Rough estimate: let's take a human being with a mass of about 70kg (and a weight force of ~700N). Assuming they're mostly water, which they are, this gives them a volume of about 70 litres. The atmospheric density is approximately 1.2kg / m^3 at sea level, meaning they displace around 84 grams of air (and therefore that the buoyancy force is approximately 0.84N).

    Dividing by the total weight gives that the scales are under-reading by about 0.1% due to buoyancy. This is probably much smaller than the measurement accuracy for your average bathroom scales.

  • Uncle Al (unregistered)

    Not to derail the helium/bouyancy/weight conversation -- but it looks like all that's happening is that the shipping department is using kilos.

  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    (At the risk of some actual knowledge exchange here as opposed to flip snarky comments...)
    You must be new here...
    Bob:
    By what factor should I adjust to calculate my true weight in a vacuum, assuming still at Earth surface gravity?
    The upthrust (force) is equal to the weight (yes, actually the weight) of the fluid displaced. I believe (it's going home time and I can't be bothered to work it out now) it works out to be about 1 part in 900 that you need to increase the reading by.

    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?

    Bob:
    Variations in barometric pressure make a much smaller difference, something like 1 part in 20000 at most.
  • K (unregistered) in reply to F
    F:
    Bob:
    And shouldn't I "weigh less" on high barometric pressure days?
    You do. But your bathroom scales probably aren't sensitive enough to show it.
    It's not really a change in weight. It's a change in the sum of (downward) vertical force on you, which someone called "apparent weight." A bathroom scale can only measure that, and only when it's positive.
  • Hmmmm (unregistered) in reply to Hmmmm

    Oops, cocked that last bit of quoting up a bit...

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