• Fab (unregistered)

    Obligatory comment #2 : -- For now, this comment is empty but it may be -- called by UpdateDatabase

  • James (unregistered)

    Can people stop blaming agile for such problems!?! This is clearly caused by VB.

  • Carlos M (unregistered)

    Oh, the joys of Microsoft platforms, that change behaviour without you knowing when, how and why.

  • (cs)

    So did Remi actually fix the problem or just find out where it was?

  • bl@h (unregistered)

    This comment has been removed by * Hotfix Abd1234567WTF * Please refer to KB article 420WTF

  • caffeine (unregistered)

    I'm sure that it is my lack of understanding or coding abilities that is causing me to go WTF at todays WTF...

    The problem obviously isn't agile development, rather with quick and dirty, multi-technology development with, presumably, poor diagnostic capabilities.

    We randomly have a placeholder proc, which is odd but not unheard of, that appears to be a red herring, and what I presume is an unattended auto-update microsoft patch...

    I am a bit confused, and kinda hoping that it is just my own ineptitude that will see me berated in following posts.

  • Incourced (unregistered)

    --SEARCH HIGH AND LOW select object_name(object_ID), definition from sys.sql_modules where definition like '%Cal_ATM%'

  • Matt K (unregistered) in reply to Carlos M

    Clearly the issue is not the horrid and conveluded "design" of the system, but just Microsoft.

    Captcha: plaga - the plural form of plague?

  • Don Lassini (unregistered)

    Quote:

    Or misfortune, depending on how you look at it: at his company, "agile development" actually means "we need that in two weeks".<

    To you guys who felt offended on behalf of Agile: Didn't you read the above sentence? It totally full of sarcasm....

  • highphilosopher (unregistered) in reply to Matt K
    Matt K:
    Clearly the issue is not the horrid and conveluded "design" of the system, but just Microsoft.

    Captcha: plaga - the plural form of plague?

    Actually the issue is the developer who wrote a database update routine in an Excel spreadsheet.

    Captcha: enim - enum if your south of the Mason-Dixon line.

  • (cs)

    It's so tempting to make a dirty ATM joke here.

  • Matt K (unregistered) in reply to highphilosopher
    highphilosopher:
    Matt K:
    [sarcasm]Clearly the issue is not the horrid and conveluded "design" of the system, but just Microsoft.[/sarcasm]

    Captcha: plaga - the plural form of plague?

    Actually the issue is the developer who wrote a database update routine in an Excel spreadsheet.

    My point exactly...

  • bK (unregistered)

    Just to be sure, the office update removed the logic of the procedure to stop some "maybe malicious" code from working?

  • (cs)

    Not to defend anything Microsoft does, but...

    While it may be technically feasible, using an Excel macro to update a DB should be considered malicious....

    IMHO, MS got this one right, even if by accident: the patch worked!

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    I'm not sure why the article keeps on talking about agile because as far as I can see this issue was not a direct result of the development methodology. Just a stupid bug that looks like it would have popped up no matter what. If you want scare stories about agile done badly then bear with me, I've suffered through some of the worst "agile" implementations imaginable and will try to submit something soon.

  • My Name Is Missing (unregistered)

    I love how it's carefully documented nothing. Can't get more enterprisey than following important Corporate Standards.

  • DysgraphicProgrammer (unregistered)

    The Real WTF is that he had to go looking for a backup, rather then just asking the version control.

  • White Pawn (unregistered)

    Damn you agile!

    shakes fist

  • (cs) in reply to DysgraphicProgrammer
    DysgraphicProgrammer:
    The Real WTF is that he had to go looking for a backup, rather then just asking the version control.

    version control ? What's that ? jk.

  • The Nerve (unregistered)

    Here's the military equivalent of agile programming.

    Ok, boys: listen up. You're going to take Baghdad. There are some rumors that it's going to take 120 days and $45 Billion. You have two weeks and $50k. There will be no battle plan, because the plans always have to change once you get into a combat situation anyway. We will be putting the infantry, snipers, artillery, medics, and intelligence in the same transport so that communication will be quicker and easier.

    Yes, we've tried this about a dozen times before, but we feel that you'll be the ones who are successful! Oh, and if you can find your own weapons and ammunition, that would be great.

  • Rob (unregistered) in reply to James

    No, obviously this is a problem with using Excel...

  • bys (unregistered)

    VB.NOT is an excel-lent programming language to do many x-references, so where's the WTF?!?

  • Drew (unregistered)

    Could I please get today's WTF in flow chart form? I think it might be easier for those of us who are regularly subjected to WTF MS engineers.

  • squeaky clean (unregistered)

    now that's a wtf!

  • (cs)

    Here's a summary of the story and the comments...

    Story:

    My company is stupid. How stupid? I'm part of the "agile development" team and all I do is fix critical bugs. So anyways, here's a bug I fixed that was really silly.

    Comments:

    1. This would have happened with any development technique, not just agile!
    2. Oh my gaaaahhhd, this isn't agile's fault :~(
    3. But what does this bug have to do with agile?
    4. WHY ARE YOU BLAMING AGILE!????

    So today I learned that agile developers can't take a joke. Even when the joke isn't on them.

  • logical.. (unregistered)

    So, from what I can see, here is the situation..

    1. The data was not populating for 1 week
    2. The stored proc was missing for a month and a half

    From these facts, our good friend Remi was not able to determine that the stored proc was not populating the data?

    To me, that sounds like a nobis mistake.

  • jamface (unregistered)

    A company I worked at used the waterfall development model.

    That usually meant that developers didn't see any requirements until they were all complete and didn't get to ask questions or get clarifications into the spec!

    One day, a bit of code went wrong. It was totally unrelated to the development process, and caused by an upgrade that overwrote files without notification.

    Oh the joys of waterfall development!

  • Zaratustra (unregistered)

    My company uses the waterfall model, except it's not water falling, if you get my drift.

  • (cs)

    And people wonder why I react allergically to anything involving Visual Basic. It's because of Rube Goldberg machines built from MS Office macros.

  • DilithiumCrystalMeth (unregistered) in reply to Arancaytar

    And what does Visual Basic have to do with MS Office macros? Could it be that you're conflating VB and VBA?

  • RogerWilco (unregistered) in reply to highphilosopher
    highphilosopher:
    Actually the issue is the developer who wrote a database update routine in an Excel spreadsheet.

    Captcha: enim - enum if your south of the Mason-Dixon line.

    I've found that a lot of these things get "developed" by some business unit by a guy that, if you're lucky has an MBA and a VB course. Only after it's been in "production" for years and the guy has left and the IT department now has so maintain the spaghetti, do these things get the form described in the article.

    As an example, I know for a fact that 40% of our Dutch national electricity grid was run by an Excel95 application until very recently. They had it running on NT6 SP3, SP6 broke it, as did any newer OS. When I left the company it was still in use, this piece of mystery code being responsible for about 100 million euro in trade and the electricity supply of about 7 million people.

  • Skilldrick (unregistered) in reply to The Nerve
    The Nerve:
    Here's the military equivalent of agile programming.

    Ok, boys: listen up. You're going to take Baghdad. There are some rumors that it's going to take 120 days and $45 Billion. You have two weeks and $50k. There will be no battle plan, because the plans always have to change once you get into a combat situation anyway. We will be putting the infantry, snipers, artillery, medics, and intelligence in the same transport so that communication will be quicker and easier.

    Yes, we've tried this about a dozen times before, but we feel that you'll be the ones who are successful! Oh, and if you can find your own weapons and ammunition, that would be great.

    Such bullsh*t. There are so many things wrong with this analogy I don't think I even need to list them - everybody will find something wrong with it.

    Seriously though, what makes you think that agile teams are expected to do work with 1/1,000,000 of the budget? Agile projects take as long as they take and cost as much as they cost - I think that's actually pretty much how the campaign in Iraq is going at the moment.

  • (cs) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    So today I learned that agile developers can't take a joke. Even when the joke isn't on them.
    It's well known that agile developers cut corners. They obviously did this even with the name, which was originally FRagile.

    Oh hell, was that an agile joke ? <dives for cover>

  • TheCPUWizard (unregistered)

    1. That is NOT AGILE! It is chaos, and would NOT happen if proper Agile practices were in place

    2. Who allows Microsoft (or Any Other) updates withough a proper progression from Dev->QA->UAT->Production??? The cange to Excel Macros was VERY well documented in the Knowledgbase Article that accompanied the update.

    The ONLY WTF here is the development team. They are probably too busy "Vulputating"..

  • sil-chan (unregistered)

    This is not agile. This is what companies think agile should be but it is not what agile is.

  • pallen (unregistered)

    ATM development: "We need it atm thx"

  • Bus Logic (unregistered)

    Funny how this has devolved into an agile flame-war. IMHO you should never have even mentioned agile in the article because it just muddies the water. Obviously the original submission had some detail about how they use agile but use it wrong, the usual crap (I've found about 75% of agile shops are "doing it wrong" so this isn't surprising in the least). So Alex decided to include a bit about how they're doing it wrong but the truth is that agile had nothing to do with the actual issue in today's article. The fact they were using agile (badly) is just an extra bit of fluff that is completely irrelevant to the actual WTF. Simply put, it shouldn't have been used as a key part of the article because it's kicked off a completely unnecessary flame-war.

    Just my opinion though. Hopefully we'll get some REAL agile WTFs at some point and we can have a proper discussion about it (ha ha, a proper discussion on TDWTF!!).

  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to sil-chan
    sil-chan:
    This is not agile. This is what companies think agile should be but it is not what agile is.

    I love this un-assailable argument. "Agile Development is teh bestest!" Wait, but this does not work or make sense. "It's because that is not teh Agile Development!"

    I hear the same arguments regarding Communism.

  • Darth Buzzword (unregistered)

    I have Agiled the project...pray I don't agile it any further.

  • (cs) in reply to TheCPUWizard
    TheCPUWizard:
    1) That is NOT AGILE! It is chaos, and would NOT happen if proper Agile practices were in place ... The *ONLY* WTF here is the development team.

    Yes. Someone is confusing agile practices with "cowboy coding". This isn't too uncommon, really, as they're superficially similar, much like aikido is superficially similar to modern dance. I know which I'd rather not have used on me in a street fight, though.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered)

    Eh, there's nothing really wrong with agile - it's an ok way to do things that are likely to shift before you build them or have flexible schedules, but it's as much to blame as excel: the fault is with whomever runs a critical process on excel and compounds that with unattended updates.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to fennec
    fennec:
    TheCPUWizard:
    1) That is NOT AGILE! It is chaos, and would NOT happen if proper Agile practices were in place ... The *ONLY* WTF here is the development team.

    Yes. Someone is confusing agile practices with "cowboy coding". This isn't too uncommon, really, as they're superficially similar, much like aikido is superficially similar to modern dance. I know which I'd rather not have used on me in a street fight, though.

    Modern dance? Seriously, though, that'd be embarrassing.

  • (cs) in reply to The Nerve
    The Nerve:
    sil-chan:
    This is not agile. This is what companies think agile should be but it is not what agile is.

    I love this un-assailable argument. "Agile Development is teh bestest!" Wait, but this does not work or make sense. "It's because that is not teh Agile Development!"

    I hear the same arguments regarding Communism.

    I think it's more like running into a dorky kid pretending he knows kung-fu and making a fool of himself. If he's lucky, he'll lose your balance and wipe out before he has his rear end handed to you on a platter. But if you actually run into the kung-fu master in a street fight, the wannabe kid doesn't mean you'll be in less trouble anyway.

    -- on an agile-process team (extreme-programming / Scrumm mix) that works very well, thank you. how well? idunno how to put it. perhaps I could tell you about my six figures' worth of equity compensation. :b

  • tekHedd (unregistered)

    Article: "Our company has no idea what 'Agile' means. It's sad, really."

    Comments: "THATS NOT WHAT AGILE MEANS YOU R STOOPID NUBS!!!! NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME I AM SO LONELY"

    Did the WTF comments connect to a Counterstrike server by accident?

  • Ken B. (unregistered) in reply to Matt K
    Matt K:
    highphilosopher:
    Matt K:
    [sarcasm]Clearly the issue is not the horrid and conveluded "design" of the system, but just Microsoft.[/sarcasm]
    Actually the issue is the developer who wrote a database update routine in an Excel spreadsheet.
    My point exactly...
    I didn't read it as "blaming Microsoft". Rather, while they shot themselves in the foot, they are the ones who got the gun, loaded the gun, pointed it at their foot, and cocked the trigger. Microsoft only walked by and happened to bump into it, setting it off.
  • (cs) in reply to fennec
    fennec:
    TheCPUWizard:
    1) That is NOT AGILE! It is chaos, and would NOT happen if proper Agile practices were in place ... The *ONLY* WTF here is the development team.

    Yes. Someone is confusing agile practices with "cowboy coding". This isn't too uncommon, really, as they're superficially similar, much like aikido is superficially similar to modern dance. I know which I'd rather not have used on me in a street fight, though.

    Ha ha! Aikido? Street fight? You must be trolling, Steven Segal.

    The level of butthurtedness is especially high today. Please include the mention of the Agile religion more often. It is most entertaining.

  • Xtremely Agile Developer (unregistered)

    Pair programming doesn't work that well around here. I like CNN and he likes the Drudge Report. Luckily, I was able to get him hooked on coffee, so I get the chance to drive as he takes his 10 bathroom breaks/day.

  • Sylver (unregistered) in reply to RogerWilco
    RogerWilco:
    highphilosopher:
    Actually the issue is the developer who wrote a database update routine in an Excel spreadsheet.

    Captcha: enim - enum if your south of the Mason-Dixon line.

    I've found that a lot of these things get "developed" by some business unit by a guy that, if you're lucky has an MBA and a VB course. Only after it's been in "production" for years and the guy has left and the IT department now has so maintain the spaghetti, do these things get the form described in the article.

    As an example, I know for a fact that 40% of our Dutch national electricity grid was run by an Excel95 application until very recently. They had it running on NT6 SP3, SP6 broke it, as did any newer OS. When I left the company it was still in use, this piece of mystery code being responsible for about 100 million euro in trade and the electricity supply of about 7 million people.

    Oh, by all that is holy on this world, why isn't thunder striking that company off the planet?

    Lemme guess, a faulty service pack for the Lightning server? Or a formula error in storm.xls?

  • Ken B. (unregistered) in reply to White Pawn
    White Pawn:
    Damn you agile!

    shakes fist

    ITYM:

    [mode voice="Sheldon Cooper"]AGILE!!![/mode]

  • wtf (unregistered) in reply to fennec
    fennec:
    TheCPUWizard:
    1) That is NOT AGILE! It is chaos, and would NOT happen if proper Agile practices were in place ... The *ONLY* WTF here is the development team.

    Yes. Someone is confusing agile practices with "cowboy coding". This isn't too uncommon, really, as they're superficially similar, much like aikido is superficially similar to modern dance. I know which I'd rather not have used on me in a street fight, though.

    I'm happy to have either not used on me, in a street fight or anywhere else.

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