• Quite (unregistered)

    TRWTF here is Jon not telling Ned's boss that Ned's logger is a POS.

  • Nicholas "LB" Braden (github)

    Log entry 2016-07-27. If you're reading this, we need help. We made our own logger and it's taken over the ship. All we can do is make logs.

  • Quite (unregistered)

    ... and TRTRWTF is Jon having to call Ned "Sir". I have never had to call anyone in any of the companies I have ever worked in by anything but their first names.

    "Communication is only possible between equals."

  • Quite (unregistered) in reply to Quite

    ... except when I worked as a Saturday boy in Tesco at age 16 / 17 / 18 when it was Mr. Woolnough and Mr. Murray.

  • Jaycee (unregistered)

    Step 1. Copy Log4Net and change all the package names....

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Quite

    Hagbard Celine!

  • Anon (unregistered)

    All your log are belong to us!

  • Jérôme Grimbert (google) in reply to Jaycee

    That would probably be a violation of the license, as the NIH syndrom likes to claim copyright on everything.

  • DocMonster (unregistered)

    I hate places like this. Seriously, smarter people than your Joe Blow, Manager of Software Development have created things that work and work well. There's little or no reason other than ignorance to ever write your own library for basically anything in most cases.

  • WonkoTheSane (unregistered)

    What he should have done in the first instance is created a wrapper around the original logger so that it implemented NLog (or similar) ILogger interface.

    Then have a config switch to switch the logger in use... quietly switch out the logger when no one is looking.

  • gnasher729 (unregistered)

    "Rolled it by hand back in my university days" - unlike Ned, I know how to write software that works, and I wouldn't even think of using any code that I cobbled together back in my university days. And I would never, ever be so cruel to tell anyone to use that rubbish as a starting point.

  • Barf4Eva (unregistered)

    I love log4net. Super easy to use and with a little know-how, easy to meet any of your logging needs.

  • Baboon (unregistered) in reply to gnasher729

    So true, I cringe at some of the stuff I wrote as a junior developer. Nowadays I always look to see if there open source solutions that mostly do what I need, however I do balance that against the public API of that project. If it does the job but is hard to work with, I write a facade around it - job done :)

  • Yazeran (unregistered) in reply to Baboon

    Yea, whenever I look at the code base for my first database system I made some 10 years ago (and which is still in use and god forbid) I feel like I need to barf (I hesitate to look in fear of triggering a latent Schröding bug, it's that bad...).

    Seriously. Who on earth will think that something they made while a student is worth a damn. It's the while point about studying; to make the errors (and have them recognised and pointed out) in a timely matter so you do not make them in 'the real life' later on.....


    Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer.

  • RandomCleverName (unregistered) in reply to Quite

    First names are nice and all, but using someone's first name doesn't make them your equal. It might signal that they're willing to ignore formality (which in turn might signal that they'll actually listen to what you have to say) but the first-name-usage policy does not, itself, solve the problem

  • Jistuce (unregistered) in reply to Quite

    I was raised to believe that pretty much everyone is a sir-or-ma'am. From my perspective, calling your boss by his first name if you are not, in fact, friends is incredibly rude.

  • Starlokk (unregistered) in reply to Yazeran

    I like to say, "If you look at your old code and aren't horrified, it means you haven't been learning."

    Tells you something about Ned here.

  • Noone (unregistered)

    I'm working for a large company and the logging system isn't giving them the results that they want. So I was told to re-write the logging system. Naturally, I grabbed log4net and started working on implementing it. The next day I was asked to give a tutorial on how it would be implemented (which I did). I was then told that the log4net interface was too complicated and I needed to write a wrapper that would be able to figure out what exactly was needed to be logged and log it in one of 4 different log locations. But the interface shouldn't require parameters of Type because it's too confusing for the "senior" developers on the team.

    After doing some digging I discovered that the real reason they want the change is because the Product Owner told everyone we were processing 18% of the requests submitted, but the logs were actually showing that we handled 2%. So the logging must be wrong :/

  • Olivier (unregistered) in reply to Quite

    When I started working,the head of the department was a professor and there was no way I'd call him anything but professor. Six month into the job, I get pulled into a different team, the head was the same professor, but there everyone was one was on first name basis. It was very weird and I had hard time to adapt.

  • Jon Haugsand (google) in reply to Yazeran

    Didn't Linux start as Linus Thorvald's student project?

  • Yazeran (unregistered) in reply to Jon Haugsand


    Which fact was used in the case with SCO as some of the code in was so bad that Linux himself was ashamed and that proved quite effectively that it was not copied from UNIX (as far as I remember it, I could be wrong though).. :-)

  • Quite (unregistered) in reply to RandomCleverName

    Every human being in the world is my equal.

  • Quite (unregistered) in reply to Yazeran

    "I dropped out of the programming course because I had better things to do, so I never had to show my really rather cool logging framework to that tedious pedantic old codger masquerading as a tutor. But it's a really good framework, I can tell because I wrote it! Never had the opportunity of trying it out till now -- and you are that lucky person!"

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to Jon Haugsand

    Linux has been improved a bit since Torvalds' school days. He's had a bit of help getting it to the state it is today.

  • Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-as-Sir Launcelot (unregistered) in reply to Jistuce

    That might be very well so in your culture, but in my culture the opposite is true. Calling your +1 "sir/ma-am" is considered mocking them over here. It would be very rude to use something else than a first name.

  • pto (unregistered)

    "Not Invented Here" gets a worse rap than it probably deserves. True, often it means a horrid crap implementation when there's a perfectly fine alternative available. But the number of times I've been stuck with a component where support has ended and it doesn't work with the latest version of the operating system, compiler, other library, etc. and forced us to do an extensive rewrite to either move to an alternate component or build it ourselves are too many to count.

  • Jistuce (unregistered) in reply to Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-as-Sir Launcelot

    In conclusion: Different areas have different social rules, and blanket statements about how things must be done are going to be broadly wrong. Which was kind of the point I was trying to make anyways. :)

  • Erlando (unregistered) in reply to Jistuce

    Where I am, calling anyone you work with "sir" or "madam" will get you laughed out of the building or at least earn you some very puzzled looks. First name only - from the boss to the janitor.

  • Brian (unregistered) in reply to Noone

    @Noone. Sounds like the owner of my company. Except it sounds like yours is more accurate.

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