It's a holiday here in the US, and today, we're reaching WAAAAY back into the archives for this holiday treat. The industry IS wrong, and I know which tool I'm making MY next web page in! (Original)--Remy

Originally posted to the Side Bar by Chris, following the response from "Gary" (a manager at his former company) about a question importing Word-HTML into their template system.

Hi Chris,

I looked at your code. Here is the problem. You are not using frames or CSS to mimic frames. This is not your fault. You were taught not to use frames in your class.

There is a lot of misinformation in the information industry. This common idea that frames are bad is a perfect example. With the WWW, from here on out and especially in multimedia WWW applications, frames are your friend. Use them always. Get good at framing. That is wisdom from Gary.

The problem most website designer have is that they do not recognize that the WWW, at its core, is framed. Pages are frames. As we want to better link pages, then we must frame these pages. Since you are not framing pages, then my pages, or anybody else's pages will interfere with your code (even when the people tell you that it can be locked - that is a lie). Sections in a single html page cannot be locked. Pages read in frames can be.

Therefore, the solution to this specific technical problem, and every technical problem that you will have in the future with multimedia, is framing.

Again, Chris, you have done nothing wrong. You were just taught a lie. Frames are the answer, by explicit design.

What I would do is open MS Word and create the frame page, testing it in Word, because it's very easy to do (high level of productivity - once you know how). Then I'd use Word to export the frame page called Index.html to HTML, to strip out all of the not needed code. That does the framing part. Then I'd use my existing multimedia development tools to create the pages that are called within my fixed structured frames. These pages can be developed by anyone, using anything, from anywhere. My frame controls their access, use, and display.

In this way, you can have your cake and eat it too. In this way, you can sub-page, via frames, a single screen display. In this way you can introduce multimedia without difficulty. In this way, your pages can be social (they can work with other peoples pages). In this way you can secure some pages, with true security, and not others.

In short, the entire industry is wrong on the framing issue and Gary is right. This happens a lot to me. Framing solves this problem and every other multi-page, multi-page source, and multi-media WWW development job. That is why frames are your friend.

Hope this helps. Let me know what you decide to do. I will help, if you frame, because it's the only solution; now and into the future. –gary

"Gary considers himself to be a truly enlightened individual," Chris added, "and has actually stated that he is on the level of Plato and Aristotle." And as such, this is Gary's second response after Chris protested.

Hi Chris,

Yes, this happens to me all the time. I am right and the entire Industry is wrong. I know it is hard to believe. You will find this out, on this frame issue, as time ensues. This is not an ego thing for me. I do not need anyone's accolades. It is just the technical truth, well told. Frames securely mediate, by design. Secure multi-mediation is the future of all webbing.

You tell me there are two frame problems: handicap access and book marking. Even if true (I'd need to research), these are not the key issues. The key issues are as I laid out in the first email on this.

There are two problems with frames. First, people do not know how to frame. Second, all pages must be securely and consistently served. Here is what I mean: if your server is down, and you have a full page, then that full page is not sent and you get the 404 error message. With frames, you can get that error on just a frame. So, if you have three frames, then if your server is not secure, you have three times the opportunity to get the 404 error message. Therefore, to use frames (an advanced mediation capability), you must be smarter and more secure.

On your very insightful issues:

1. Item one, can you make them drop-up menus? That is my first idea. If not, if you do not like that idea, I will look further.

2. Item two, place variable width frames on either side, with your background star image. Then place the work in center as a fixed width frame of the pixels you so desire. So the top frame is three side-by-side frames. Then the middle work frame has other frames. This is called the windowing of frames. That is how you want to now think about all multimedia website design, especially with multiple team authors.

Again, I'm here to help. Just send me any problem that you have. I feel your energy and intelligence on this. It's a pleasure working with you. -gary

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